[From ws17/10 p. 26 – December 18-24]
It will occur—if you do not fail to listen to the voice of Jehovah your God.”—Zec 6:15
The first thing you should do before studying this article is read the entirety of chapter 6 of Zechariah. As you read it, look carefully to see if there is any application, any application whatsoever, beyond Zechariah’s day?
Now consider these words by Governing Body member, David Splane, delivered at the 2:13 mark of video of the 2014 Annual Meeting Program:
“Who is to decide if a person or an event is a type if the word of God doesn’t say anything about it? Who is qualified to do that? Our answer? We can do no better than to quote our beloved brother Albert Schroeder who said, “We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves.” Wasn’t that a beautiful statement? We agree with it.”
Then, around the 2:18 mark, Splane gives the example of one brother Arch W. Smith who loved the belief we once held in the significance of pyramids. However, then the 1928 Watchtower nullified that doctrine, he accepted the change because, to quote Splane, “he let reason win out over emotion.” Splane then continues to say, “In recent times, the trend in our publications has been to look for the practical application of events and not for types where the Scriptures themselves do not clearly identify them as such. We simply cannot go beyond what is written.”
You might also want to consider the follow-up to that talk published in the March 15, 2015 Watchtower, “Questions from Readers” on page 17.
So we are no longer going to teach antitypes unless they are explicitly declared in the Bible. That is the official position of the Governing Body and yet this article commissioned by the Governing Body violates it.
How can they expect us to be obedient to everything they teach us if they won’t obey their own direction?
One of the reasons they dropped antitypical applications is that they often came across as silly. For instance, in this article, the two mountains Zechariah speaks of are interpreted by the Governing Body to represent “Jehovah’s universal and eternal rulership” and “the Messianic Kingdom in the hands of Jesus”. However, the application was to Zechariah’s day, a time before the Messianic Kingdom in any form came into existence.
We could go on, but it seems fruitless to do so. After all, most of the antitypes apply to 1914 and 1919, and we’ve spent considerable effort demonstrating from Scripture that all the JW teachings concerning those years are false.[i]
Take Part in the Building Work
What is the writer of this article really after? First, the non-scriptural antitypes are intended to shore up the belief of Jehovah’s Witnesses that God is backing the Organization. What more is expected from the rank and file?
Today, millions join in true worship, and they are moved from the heart to contribute their “valuable things,” which include their time, energy, and resources in support of Jehovah’s great spiritual temple. (Prov. 3:9) How can we be certain that Jehovah values our loyal support? Remember that Heldai, Tobijah, and Jedaiah brought the materials for the crown that Zechariah made. The crown then served “as a memorial,” or “reminder,” of their contribution toward true worship. (Zech. 6:14; ftn.) Likewise, the work and the love we show for Jehovah will never be forgotten. (Heb. 6:10) They will remain forever, cherished in Jehovah’s memory. – par. 18
In short, give your time and money to the Organization and Jehovah will remember you and bless you, because you have helped build His modern-day temple. And what is His modern-day temple? According to the Bible, the temple represents the anointed Christians that make up the bride of Christ, not some human-run Organization with real estate holdings all over the world. (2 Co 6:16) In fact, the Bible doesn’t ever use the word “organization”. So equating the temple of God to such things cannot be based in Scripture.
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[i] See the two categories “1914” and “1919” on the home pages of Beroean Pickets Archive.
[i] “See the two categories “1914” and “1919” on the home pages of Beroean Pickets Archive.”
This seems to be a dead link.
Hi Thaddeus, I just checked both out and there are articles listed under both. When you click on the plus sign, does nothing show?
At the bottom of this article it says “[i] “See the two categories “1914” and “1919” on the home pages of Beroean Pickets Archive.
I click the words “Beroean
Pickets” which is highlighted as a link.
When I do it takes me to a page that states:
No Results Found
The page you requested could not be found. Try refining your search, or use the navigation above to locate the post.
Categories.
I understand now. I’ve fixed the link. Thank you.
Meleti Vivion, I’m surprised that you or no one else here picked up on the Five horses so plainly stated in Zech 6:2,3. Now I’m being shunned for pointing that out, but I think it’s more about as one commentor put it “hurling insults” at the Watchtower. I’m getting a good picture of where the line gets drawn here. People can criticize all the way up to the Governing Body but go no further. Don’t say nothing about the “upper escutcheon”. Don’t mess with the Watchtower war machine, keep it rolling at all costs, otherwise a lot of people go… Read more »
Here is my response: What utter drivel. For the love of God, please stop talking.
Which God you talking about Robert? WTBTS of the World? The “In God we trust” God?$$$$$$$$ Money Money Money Money$$$$$$$ Which one? (1Tim 6:10).
Psalmbee, I think it best if we leave the “backroom meetings” in the Kingdom hall, don’t you? Be assured that no one is shunning you. Some may disagree with your view on a Scripture, but isn’t that their right? Don’t you want the right to disagree yourself? The important thing is that we can have different viewpoints on Scriptures that are interpretive in nature without allowing the difference of opinion to affect our love for one another. Our words should always be expressed out of love. “Let YOUR utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so as to know… Read more »
The haunting and the haunted play a game no one can win. I’m sorry it goes down like this but someone has to lose. Let the inmates free the guards! (Is 49:9), (Ps 69:33), (Ps 79:11).
Don’t fool yourself, sir, it isn’t just one organization active against you.
Ifionlyhadabrain, What happened to your comment that was in this spot above mine below??
Can I get a Hallelujah can I get an Amen? Feels like the Holy Ghost running thru ya when I’m feeling those shunned effects of the naysayers. I’m out here in the open, I feel no shame, I can hear the lullaby of the midnight train. Progress came and took it’s toll, and in the name of flood control they made their plans and drained the land. The last time I walked in the swamp I sat upon a cypress stump. I listened close and heard the Ghost of the Holy One cry, blow blow Watchtower wind blow like you’re… Read more »
Five different colored horses red, black, white, grisled, and bay (king James) older revisions of the NWT say speckled and parti- colored for the last two.
Wow, a thumbs down for clarifying scripture. Who are we working with here? Beelzebub. (busybob).
For starters,@ JWleaks letter_on illegal_toxic_dumping_at_ Watchtower_ farms1_.pdf ,also 1,888 trees located within Warwick work area 1,461 of them destroyed (U.S. Army Corps. of Engineers). Unknown amounts of wildlife exterminated. The Buffalo bullet: Watch Tower Society being investigated for illegal toxic dumping in Hudson Valley Watershed. By Barbara Anderson. Also just to point out to those unaware when W.T. sold out from DUMBO and other portions of the Brooklyn area They sold to The Kushner Group. AKA The President of the U.S.A son in law Jared,the most prestigious of the properties and buildings, according to Robert Devine legal spokesperson for THE… Read more »
Anyone got a 10-20 on the first chariot with red horses that’s been M.I.A.? (Ec 11:5) perhaps ?
Meleti, The question to the angel in verse 4 by Zechariah raises a red flag for me. I feel it would translate best as “Is this the Lord I’m seeing”? Keeping in mind this was a “prophetic vision”. 2nd flag, it appears to me that the red horses and the first chariot have disappeared (out of sight or vision). The angel also describes these chariots and horses as spirits unlike what is described in Genesis and Isaiah and other places. That’s a little mysterious to me and could indicate days beyond Zechariah.
To add a bit more to pslambees comment. I think it’s always worth remembering that the OT scriptures were what our 1st century brothers and sisters had in front of them as Gods written word, which always pointed them towards Christ , as this was the goal of these collected writings. They also had the eyewitness accounts and letters of counsel and encouragement from the apostles , but this wasn’t put together in a book till around 110 AD. So I find it beneficial to always ask myself ” how did the 1st century brothers and sisters look at this… Read more »
Meleti, in reference to them being an organization with Real Estate holdings all over the world, I’ll just say that I don’t think they had a pamphlet in mind when they named their Corporation Watch Tower Bible and -“TRACT”- Society. That to me is a perfect example of type antitype lingo they use. It serves a dual purpose.
Ha very droll Psambee!
I admit I had a moment of confusion there; we don’t tend to use the word tract for land here in UK. Very clever though; tracts of land, tracts expressing strong opinions on religion, and bronchial tracts, which are causing me much trouble this week.
There’s a lot of nasty stuff around. Get well soon, MM, wherever you are in this country.
Still here and fighting the lurgy Leonardo! Cough cough!
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Hey Psalmbee. You are on the right track if you can see that some of what’s written in the prophets has not yet been fulfilled. Sadly, the organization has applied every unfulfilled prophesy to their own organization. It seems “it’s always about them.” They’re just so self-centered, they can’t see how things really apply. Unfortunately their abuse of applying unfulfilled prophesies to themselves has left a really bad taste in ex-JW’s mouths. So much so that many don’t wish to consider that some of the prophet’s prophesies indeed are for the future (they just have nothing to do with the… Read more »
Thanks, Yehorakam for the tip but I thought we were talking about Zechariah 6 in this article?
Yes indeed. My refs were to Zech 4 & 5
You are quite right, Yehorakam. This is how it was from the time I became a JW and further back. The prophecies in Revelation were about them, and events in the last days. Those funny dayss in Daniel were all (and still are !) to do with periods between Conventions. Everything was used to picture them. Remember Jehu and the Jonadabs, etc. Everything was being fulfilled in the Organisation somewhere. And we all swallowed it. Were we gullible ? Maybe. But we trusted them then , even if we thought some things were a bit odd. What is the position… Read more »
Short and sweet Meleti. No need to elaborate on these bogus “antitypes” that are not supposed to be taught any more.
All I hear is white noise……
Warp how do you describe white noise? I know it to be a hissing sound or “Low tone static”. Can you elaborate?
One definition is: “meaningless or distracting commotion, hubbub, or chatter”
Does that help?
Not really, I don’t believe hubbub or chatter to be accurate nor the other either. Scientifically it’s the noise you hear when a television station goes off the air of a channel but the radio is still broadcasting, it never goes off or out of the air, an invisible force that can be heard.
Sorry to offend you. Next time I won’t use a term you don’t understand…
You didn’t offend me Warp and there wasn’t any term you used that I didn’t understand unless you meant it in a slang way.
Oh dear! ? I understood what Warp meant, Psalmbee. It is a neologism, a new word or made up term that uses a scientific term as you correctly stated, to describe the effect of words that have no meaning. Just like the white noise when the channel went off air… There was some noise but it was meaningless. That was a long time ago when we used to have white noise on the TV! So when Warp said white noise I understood it to refer to meaningless chatter. Somewhat like when my husband lovingly refers to me as a ”… Read more »
Yeah for sure M/M nothing in the English language is absolute. I was just heeding the principle at (Matt 5:37). I try not to horseplay with words or make new meanings out of old words it’s already confussing enough. I am in the U.S.A and don’t consider it funny when the “Tract” society destroys enormous amounts of land just to print their literature\litter-a-tour. I’m not saying I don’t know how, I can hang with the best of them when it comes to that.
Hi PB,
Very interesting application of Matthew 5:37. Does that mean that if someone uses slang he is from “the wicked one”? I’m confussed….
Hi Warp Speed, not at all what I meant,I was speaking for myself when I said that. I myself have been very guilty of using slang. It’s something I’m trying to refrain from. With all the varieties of English nowadays it’s very difficult to keep up with regional slang.I would much rather speak in basic terminology that provides a route for staying on course much more smoothly. I hope you and yours are doing well this Holiday Season! I’m fine, just hanging out here in my “little platoon” reading the mail.
I’m confused about confussed ?
I was quoting Psalmbee
Forgive me WS…I was trying to be humorous but I guess it didn’t work. I enjoy your comments very much!
Hi Lois,
I did get the humor?
Thanks
Where is your proof that WT destroys enormous amounts of land to print literature? What land? Where? If WT does this, what does the NY Times do? Is the consumption of trees for paper the sole extent of this destruction, or did you have something else in mind?
I am by no means a fan of WT, but if you are going to hurl insults around, you ought to at least include the tiniest semblence of facts to back them up.
You must not be aware of the trampling the Earth is afflicted with just to make paper. Logging is a very destructive and kills wild life in abundance. I’ve got plenty of proof. 46 million Watchtower mags. 45million Awake mags per month being printed along with all their other material they need lots of paper. large amounts of Poisonous Ink was found at the Warwick construction site buried in the ground. They have no recycling system in place for all their unwanted literature that stacks up in active publishers homes and elsewhere. Perhaps you should see the dark side of… Read more »
Are you saying that the Warwick site was contaminated by WT ink?
Maybe you have “done” research, but you haven’t cited any of it. For whatever paper WT consumes, it is a drop in the ocean of the whole world’s paper usage. WT is not responsible for the conduct of loggers, but it so happens that loggers do replant logging fields, and because logging on existing lands had disturbed them in the past, it’s unlikely any additional wildlife gets disturbed from new activity. (Not impossible, but just less likely, since the damage is already done.) The reality is, there is probably more damage being done to forests from global warming (like changes… Read more »
Excuse me about the recycling I forgot it’s not their literature after it leaves the press, the publishers own it. That’s funny. How can you think they are so squeaky clean when they have ruined so many lives without missing a single issue. I don’t need a theory to know that this is a conspiracy. You can take this however you want, but I peck when I type, I own a flip phone, I don’t keep records, I’m not a lawyer, I don’t provide links other than scripture available here, because I don’t know how and don’t want to learn.… Read more »
I assume the previous owners had a real good reason for burying a bunch of 55gal steel drums of poisonous ink that rusted and seeped in the ground over all those years, you got any oceanfront property in Arizona you want to show me? I saw it on the news being handled at a city level. WT legal team best in the Business and behind the scenes at keeping things hush hush and diverting attention to protect the elite. They squelched it with the quickness.
Robert, I concur with your view. There is a lot of obsfucation in wt society. Many who have left add their theories and views. What is required is to stick to the facts and when we have a theory or perspective state it as such. Otherwise it muddies the waters and the truth will not shine out as easily. Much of this deflects the conversation. An example is ARC. We should discuss it by explaining the purpose of a royal Commission and it’s scope. Then we go into the data and eho provided it and in this case it was… Read more »
Sorry to hear you’re sick, MarthaMartha. The only good thing about a winter cold is it forces me to stay indoors and binge-watch my favorite Netflix shows.
For me, it’s like the static you get when a TV is tuned to a station that is not transmitting. Of course, if you have cable, there’s no such thing. 🙂
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We were just reading 1 Cor. 13 in our weekly bible study and it brings to mind 1 Cor. 13:7 where Paul tells us that “Love…believes all things”. I find we in particular need to implement that aspect of love when communicating with one another online, because written communication lacks the moderating factor of body language and tone of voice; so what is written can easily be taken in a way that the writer never intended. Thus, it is best to “believe all things”, in the sense of believing the best of the writer, giving them the benefit of the… Read more »
Agreed Meleti. Good counsel indeed.?
Ps 108:12
Amen,dear brothers and sisters..”faith operating through love”(Gal.Ch.5) the important key;holding to our Master.Having mostly recovered now from PTSD:from slanderers- within(they were kept hidden;got off free),I have much gratitude..for all of you…in your well-meaning,sincere comments.In acceptance of all of our current imperfections,traumas, losses,griefs.. Love’s It;takes care of ALL,Ephesians 3:17-19.