JackSprat made a comment under the recent post on Christian neutrality and the Organization’s involvement in the United Nations that I’m grateful for, because I’m sure he raises a view that many share. I would like to address that here.
I agree that the chance for change from the letter writing campaign I’m asking everyone to share in is vanishingly small. Additionally, the impact of any individual letter is miniscule. However, the field doesn’t get wet from a single drop of rain, but every drop contributes to watering the crop. The question is, what crop are we expecting to reap? Some, evidently, think I’m going for a positive change and believe that is futile. I wouldn’t disagree, though I wouldn’t be a good Christian if such a thing were not to make me happy. However, being practical, I don’t anticipate that. What I anticipate is something else; something more in the nature of the results from the two past campaigns JackSprat points to. In both Russia and Malawi, the targets of the letters only became more angry and more entrenched in their course of action.
Jehovah is always right, but he doesn’t lead with that. He leads with kindness. Consider this Bible direction:
“. . .If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; If he is thirsty, give him water to drink, For you will be heaping burning coals on his head, And Jehovah will reward you.” (Proverbs 25:21, 22)
In ancient times, they would heap hot coals on mineral rock to melt it and if there were precious metals, they would run off and be collected. If the mineral rock was worthless, that would also be revealed.
So this command is a way of seeing what is hidden in a person’s heart. They will inevitably expose themselves to the world, as good, or as bad.
Consider the case of Moses with Pharaoh. Jehovah led with a simple harmless miracle, but Pharaoh didn’t listen. With each subsequent miracle, he gave Pharaoh a way out, but the man’s pride blinded him to the course of action which was in his own best interest. Eventually, his nation was devastated, and his powerful army wiped out, and he became an historical pariah—an object lesson for generations to come.
If enough of us write in and there is no gold or silver in the hearts of the men leading the Organization, then their anger at being called on the carpet publicly for wrongdoing will move them to even greater blunders which will in turn help awaken even more of our brothers and sisters.
They love to quote Proverbs 4:18 as applying to them, but the verse they should be applying is the next one:
“The way of the wicked is like the darkness; They do not know what makes them stumble.” (Proverbs 4:19)
Clearly, the Governing Body does not know “what makes them stumble”. Someone commented to me that they did us all a great service by coming out with the overlapping generations doctrine. Had it not been for that, I would not have woken up in 2010. They keep stepping on their own feet and stumbling over things they cannot see. Pride is a great blinding force. By doing the right thing and calling them out on it, we are obeying God and furthering the cause of righteousness which always seeks to restore the sinner to the path of truth.
I would like to ask you all a favor. If you go on other sites, please share a link to this article as a means to promoting this campaign. The more rain, the bigger the crop.
Hi everyone. For those who are passing the carts, and are not known to those on the cart, and provided you are armed with a printout from the ARC or the Canade Supreme Court (easily obtained from the Internet), here are some ideas for a conversation, if you dare. Another way of raising a few heckles Approach those who are on the cart, in an area where they do not know you, and simply ask the question. Q . Is it true you believe you are the only ones who will be saved at Armageddon ? Subject to their reply… Read more »
I think that the ones who are dedicated to the doctrine will just look at it as a red herring fallacy.
( Pr 22:6)
Some follow the nature of the beast unknowingly.
For what it is worth you may like to read the contents of this link below and see that there is a similar wrestling among ex-Muslims around the world who are labelled Apostates and the penalty for being one is death in many countries. They are faced with the similar dilemma of whether to be true to themselves or consider all matters and be reasonable in the circumstances. I think it may be a worthy exercise for some who have made categorical suggestions and comments as to what the right thing to do is,should read the article and then decide… Read more »
A good reminder, Alithia. I read your comments with interest, especially since your story. It is encouraging to know that we are not alone. But for Moslems it is worse than for us. Two wrongs, of course, do not make a right.
Removed. I don’t want to upset the “apple cart”.
Seriously? You are going to make a prejudicial and demeaning comment like that here?
No doubt. Completely uncalled for Psalmbee
I’m trying to figure out a way to reword the letter so it doesn’t reek of the same hypocrisy i’d accuse the organization of. I registered to vote in local mayoral and town council elections. I haven’t voted for a state representative or governor but my conscience would allow me to do that. As far as national elections go I think we all know it’s a joke and it doesn’t matter what party you vote for. I wrote In “Jesus Christ” for all my national election choices this last time. A quick search on their part would show the result… Read more »
The premise of the letter is that they are going against their own rules and their own judicial system. It doesn’t mean we agree with their interpretation of what “separate from the world” means. Rather, it is that they, having set up a standard and punishing people for not conforming to it, are now guilty of the same offenses and worse.
Thanks, that gives me an idea how to do this.
I wonder if Jesus when he was having nails driven through his hands and feet was saying I wish you would stop because I’m such a sensitive person and I don’t know if I can handle this or not? (Ro 6:3)
It’s time to pick up your cross and carry it, don’t hide it.
Psalmbee, Far be it from me to stifle conversation or avoid controversies. I am sure there are still some irate readers that don’t care much for me, though that was never my intent. But, having said that, I feel your tone is too confrontational and abrasive. I can see where telling people “It’s time to pick up your cross and carry it, don’t hide it.” is going to offend them and hurt their feelings. I personally believe that WT is a false religion and part of Babylon the Great, and that we should have no part of it whatsoever. But… Read more »
Thank you Robert, I can appreciate all that, and while some of what you say is very true while some is not, according to the way I see things. Mainly what I would disagree with is the comment about my comment being a “harsh command”. I see it as a friendly Christian reminder, and to illustrate that point I will just say that most here have picked their cross up but are not carrying it yet, but time will tell. (Heb 5:12) Please read the commentary!! This may or may not be a good example, but staying in the org… Read more »
And the wheat and the weeds grow TOGETHER until the harvest. We will find out who the wheat are at the harvest.
True dat LJ??
Thank you Brain, very wise words and you to Leonardo. Robert is right, I need to calm down, it’s not what we can do for Jesus, it’s what he done for us that our salvation depends on.
Psalmbee
Consider Romans 5:7: “For hardly will anyone die for a righteous man; indeed, for the good man, perhaps, someone even dares to die.” So the scriptures make a distinction between someone “righteous” – dedicated to being “right” and following rules – and a “good” person who is genuinely interested in helping others. Imperfect people CANNOT be righteous, not in the absolute sense. That is what makes perfectionism such a source of problems, since it’s a vain pursuit that cannot be attained. At best, we can just work on it. But imperfect people CAN be good, by unselfishly seeking what is… Read more »
I find myself in the situation that you refer to and, although I disagree with much of the ‘doctrinal’ points that I hear at the meetings, (PIMO I guess), I have lately been trying to set these aside mentally and focus on the thoughts and points that are scriptural. Wouldn’t this be beneficial for all those associated with organized religion? They all have teachings that are obviously not backed by the scriptures. The problem is that WBTS/JWs will turn on you if you don’t believe exactly as you are told; so I am very cautious on what I say and… Read more »
I have found the when a scripture is quoted or read to make some ‘doctrinal’ point, I will read the context around it, sometimes several chapters during the meeting while I listen halfway to what is being said. Many times I can determined if its being misapplied right then; although my wife doesn’t think much of my ‘technique’, I do share some of the points with her later as she is still fully in. I have done more true Bible reading, study and meditation in the last few years than I have in my entire life even though I was… Read more »
The thing we must remember is that all of us are here because we need a place where we are not judged for every conscientious decision we make in life, nor are others trying to impose their will on us. That is what we get in the Organization all the time. So however strongly we feel about the proper course of action one should take in the awakening process, let us remember the kindly quality of the Christ who, though he was always right, never imposed his will on others, but allowed them to make their own decisions. (2 Cor.… Read more »
As I recall, Jesus was only really hard on someone close to him when he told Peter, Get behind me Satan. Other people he was hard on were mostly the Pharisees. Everyone else he was quite gentle with. And, we should note, the primary means Jesus used to teach was a positive one. That is, instead of say, in effect, “Bad, disciple, BAD!” he would tell them and show them the correct course of action. You can only teach someone good by doing just that – teaching them good, not by saying “bad, bad, bad”. That doesn’t teach, it just… Read more »
Good point Jesus always looked for the good in people and encouraged it along with being lavish in praise and very sparing in criticism for any of their actions.
”Bad dog, bad dog”, thanks Robert you both made me laugh and think.
Nice reference, Brain. Always good to have the Lord’s point of view to guide us.
good comment …. our Christian freedom
yes it is Christian freedom. I was amazed how the WWCG changed when they went back to basics and concentrated on the New Testament. the WT is stuck in a time warp they future proofed by having an elastic generation and a Governing body. looking at the financials they are not doing so well. with sales at 0 for literature they will only survive with sales of real estate and donations and these will eventually be unable to sustain the organization.
JackSprat,
How long has that term been going around (elastic generation)? First time for me hearing it, if you just made it up, nice coin!
check out
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/18327/some-watchtower-lies-analyzed-adults-only
Thank you everyone for all your fine thoughts on being positive and building up eachother
We are reminded, and must always remind ourselves, that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up, and that love never fails.
How can it be possible that love never fails? In its truest form, real love unselfishly acts to the benefit and best interests of the other person.
What other course of action could have such a positive result? Only the teachings of a loving God and His son could give us such an enlightened goal to strive for. No mere wisdom of men even comes close.
Hi Psalmbee, I apologize but I do not understand either of your post in relation to my comments. I said nothing of being silent, but only questioned the rationale of writing letters to the branch in place of working from within the congregation with our lifelong friends and of course our family members to wake them up with this site offering them a way to do so Without us personally debating doctrine or appearing to be an Apostate ( which of course we are from JW Stand point) which would end very abruptly. As awakened Christians do we not feel… Read more »
Gogetter thank you for this comment. Your words give me strength to hold out and stay a little while longer, I think many are surely gonna wake up and leave in the coming years. Soon a new strong christian community will be built, not a new organized religion, but something to replace the old dry things,we will receive them with open arms, however much they have persecuted us before they woke up
Gogetter, You asked:do we not feel the need to help our brothers and sisters who we know are extremely dedicated to Jehovah and Jesus but are being held captive by the org. ? 1.Who released you from your captivity? 2.Why are you so intent on working from within, and who could trust such a one? True believers in The Christ of Jesus know very well, how Jesus is the one who does the separating, and that would be by Holy Spirit. You said: PIMO’s are in for one reason only. I cannot agree with that, I have known many baptized… Read more »
Hi Eric, Just keep pumping away. I have sent, and received a reply (typically evasive) to the comment made by GJ at the ARC about “we are not the only spokesperson”. My follow up letter asking for clarification has not been answered. I am will include a reference to some other event, depending on the content of rest of my letter. Whatever we write, at least someone has to read it. Then, to that extent, I will have had my say. In answer to Psalmbee, it is not so easy when many of your family, who are not at home,… Read more »
I will stay as long as is needed to help friends and relatives to see the truth. But it is very sensitive at times, to question beliefs that, although unscriptural, are very dear to people. Sometimes it feels like you need the precision of a surgeon to not offend some. It can be very frustrating. Regarding ”not the only spokesman”, I have a feeling they will change the understanding about ”the faithful slave” to include even non-anointed members of branch commitees etc. I don’t have any strong proof about this, just that they tend to throw in ”work together with… Read more »
Leonardo, totally agree that it’s up to each ones own conscience, the important part is to not take part in unscriptural actions. I have managed to somehow go about stealthily. The biggest problem I feel like a fake, not a good enough Jw and the constant guilt tripping at meetings isn’t good for the self esteem. Not a good enough ”awakened Christian either” because I’m not brave enough/ too careful to speak up when I should. Oh well at least I got help here from you friends
I guess I’m afraid, not of people telling me I’m an apostate or bad christian, but that I should be convinced of that myself that they are right… it hurt enough last time an elder said I’m a bad christian. The reason? I told him ”I don’t want billions of people to die at armageddon? Isn’t there another way?”
They are not right. Don’t be afraid, at least not of that. When I started drifting away, I would ask myself questions like that, like was I all wrong and was I making a terrible mistake by leaving. What convinced me was a careful reading of Ray Franz, Crisis of Conscience and In search of Christian Freedom, and the other book, Gentile Times Revisited. The people who wrote these books were not rebellious or angry in the way WT always caricaturizes what they call “apostates”. These were thoughtful individuals with well considered, well-reasoned arguments. They never saw themselves as “enemies”… Read more »
If you are a head of household that is PIMO, I personally don’t see any excuse for you still being in. If you are not the head of a household and are PIMO then yes, I can understand that.
Jesus shepperds his own, the Father will draw you to him once you release the bond you’re under. (1 Th 2:19).
Wow Psalmbee- that was an extremely judgmental statement. Let’s shine that spotlight on you for a moment….
What was your excuse for never getting baptized?
You have the gall to tell all of us ex-JW’s to “get out”, when in fact you were never “in”.
Not cool….
Well said, to get out to fast could be devastating for some sensitive individuals. It’s not really all about what we’re leaving but mainly about what we’re going to. Or rather ”whom” we are getting closer to…
Warp Speed you said:You have the gall to tell all of us ex-JW’s to “get out”, when in fact you were never “in”.
First of all let’s understand the meaning of ex-JW’s, I don’t fit that description, perhaps you may if that’s the way you identify yourself at the Kingdom Hall or is it just here you do that?
Warp asked: What was your excuse for never getting baptized?
I don’t have an excuse, The Lord Jesus has always told me not to do that yet, therefore I don’t need an excuse when some man asks me.
Hi Eric,
Who do you suppose it will evoke a response with? It will be kept under raps and in no way
Will the R & F ever know about it, just look how many Never heard about ARC and all the law suites. The handful at HQ that would know about the letters coming in are all hardcore loyalists, that’s why they are there.
Gogetter, Staying silent never accomplished anything. Doing nothing is exactly that, a big fat NOTHING. Speak out and defend yourselves. Staying silent is a weakness. Can’t you read the sign? Let me give you an example: An officer on duty notices a man ran a stop sign, so he pulls him over and asks him to get out of the car. The man gets out and pleads with the officer that he slowed way down before he went thru the stop sign. The officer told him yeah but you didn’t stop. The man says, but officer I slowed way down.… Read more »
I see your point, Gogetter. However, you’ll notice that the governing body has reacted to the “apostates” by getting defensive in talks and broadcasts. There have also been talks about the two-witness rule, again in response to media coverage. Like all such who follow a course of independence from God, they feel insecure in their positions of power and react (often overreact) to any perceived threat to that power. Maybe nothing will come of these letters. Even if they get many such, the wisest thing they can do is to ignore them. But they are not known of late for… Read more »
You are quite right, Eric. I didn’t see Psalmbee’s remark earlier that ‘doing nothing accomplishes nothing’ but that is a profound statement in four words.
The reality might be a little more complicated than that. For instance, a PIMO might do nothing at the moment, in order to prepare themselves and their families to leave later. So, while the statement is profound and thought-provoking, we must be careful not to view opinions in absolutes or without considering the context.
I appreciate what Eric is attempting to do with his version of a letter writing campaign and we all agree it would be as effective as the letter bombing campaign that the GB has guilted the R & F to do in the past with government leaders. I want to point out that any PIMO’s who decide to undertake this project will no longer be incognito the minute you sign your name to the letter. I state the obvious or maybe not to any who are considering this. Be prepared for the hammer to come down on you swiftly and… Read more »
An alternative is to sign with an alias and include no return address. The important thing is the quantity of letters what will provoke a response, likely a negative one, which might result in more waking up.
Just had a funny thought. Sign with the name of a currently serving member of the Governing Body, with as much current personal information as can be garnered publically. That will at least get them to blink. 🙂
… ok everybody … just joking …
He can lift the veil for individuals as 2 Corinthians 3:12-18 shows, but then there are time that he tears it in two. (Matthew 27:51) The time for that is neigh, at least for the Organization. Woe betide those poor souls who have clung to faith in men when that hour arrives, for they will be left with nothing. Let us hope we can be there for them.
From Jordan Peterson’s new book: “Under the leadership of a great man, the Hebrews organize themselves into a society, and then an empire. As their fortunes rise, success breeds pride and arrogance. Corruption raises its ugly head. The increasingly hubristic state becomes obsessed with power, begins to forget its duty to the widows and orphans, and deviates from its age-old agreement with God. A prophet arises. He brazenly and publicly reviles the authoritarian king and faithless country for their failures before God—an act of blind courage—telling them of the terrible judgment to come. When his wise words are not completely… Read more »
I would hope that I have an internal hubris alarm that if I ever started slipping into that trap it would kick on and wake me up. I try to give my fellow Witnesses (I still attend meetings with my family) the benefit of the doubt strictly because I know to dismiss their motives wholesale would be hubris on my part. But I have to force myself to try to see things as they do. It’s not natural for me. But I don’t want to ever belong to a mindless mob. I don’t want to lead one. My natural state… Read more »
I stand corrected
I agree with the above sentiments. If any one is aware, Ray Franz GB member was in receipt of the treatise by Carl-Olof-Johnson “Gentile Times Re-Considered” which put the lie to the 1914 debacle back in the 70s. Despite initially wrestling with it and even actively opposing the contents for considerable time it had the effect of eventually causing Ray and a good many high level “Bethel Boys” to diverge from the pack and to start questioning things in an objective manner, and the results are that massive numbers now can attribute having been convinced otherwise. Can anyone discount for… Read more »
When Ray Franz turned apostate the word itself had much more meaning to it then it does now. Back then it held more credibility, now the internet is rife with them. Why should the WT care about any of them, when there are so many running rampant? Actually it may be working in there favor! Note: The WT Corporation is completely legally and lawfully distinct from the GB. That happened when they did the restructure. I have noticed that when the word corporation comes up people start talking about the GB. I feel that those two words should not be… Read more »
They cared then and they care now, recently the elders received correspondence/talking to from the C.O.s warning the elders to be on the look out for Apostates as the are everywhere, so said my nephew/elder to me??? Ha ha ha. Running rampant true there are ex JW sites where they fairly scream, free sex, gay lgbthzxyz no god that is why sites like this that are faith based are important and can be what many would be looking for if and when the number of defections start to grow. Look how the GB is running around trying to put out… Read more »
You’re correct, Psalmbee. The directors of the corporation that holds ownership of Warwick could, legally, throw the Governing Body off the premises. I don’t believe that legally, the Governing Body would have any recourse were that decision to be taken. I could be wrong though.
YaY!Meleti, i fully agree with you on this. Every other week we go to a certain town and attend the undercover markets there. The witnesses have a permanent stand set up and I go and introduce myself and talk to them about the weather and finally why I left the Organisation, in the hope that it will make them aware and help them wake up. Every other week I have found there are always different witnesses on the stand. Have I had any success? No. Every time I do it they end up angry. But maybe one of them will… Read more »
Another defence made is “Do you think you know better than the faithful slave ?”. If they know best then why do the scriptures ask us to make sure of all things, to text every inspired expression ? Or do you think they never make mistakes ?
Another one told to me by an Elder who claimed loudly,”Elders are appointed by Holy Spirit”. When I showed him a Watchtower article explaining the Elders are not appointed by holy spirit directly but only by association with the Bible direction, that is the Bible is a product of holy spirit, therefore by following Bible direction to appoint Elders, Elders are appointed by holy Spirit???!…..err, makes sense to them anyway( which opens a can of worms reasoning on their claim) He said the same to me…. “Do you think you know better than the faithful slave ? and then….. “Do… Read more »