“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mat. 24:36)
“It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction…” (Acts 1:7)
You might think that given these inspired stipulations, there would be no way for us to calculate, starting from 1914, just when the end would come. In fact, for a time back in 1997, you would have been both right and of one mind with our teaching.
So the recent information in The Watchtower about “this generation” did not change our understanding of what occurred in 1914. But it did give us a clearer grasp of Jesus’ use of the term “generation,” helping us to see that his usage was no basis for calculating—counting from 1914—how close to the end we are. (w97 6/1 p. 28) [Italics added]
Now all that has changed. While Jesus told us no one can know the day or hour, we can have a pretty good idea of the year, give or take a few. And while Jesus also told us that it wasn’t for us to know the times and seasons, well…that was then, this is now.
You see, as of the release of the January 15, 2014 The Watchtower we have the best way yet to know just how close we are to the end. The reason we can say this is that the generation Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:34 consists exclusively of those anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses who received their heavenly calling while others of that class who had witnessed the events of 1914 while themselves anointed were still alive.
You may be thinking, “So how does this help us with our precise calculation?” I’m glad you asked. The fact is that we know just how many anointed there are and we know where they are. This is because every congregation reports on the number of partakers during memorial. It would be a small thing for the Organization to ask all congregations where there are anointed members to ascertain the year they first began to partake. This would allow us to determine which are of the generation and which were anointed too late to be included. My guess is that the actual number of those who could reasonably make up the generation based on this latest “new light” would be around five thousand. It’s not hard to keep track of five thousand individuals, especially in an Organization so full of obedient members trained in the regular reporting of statistics.
We could report on the year of anointing as well as the age of each individual. As the years go by, we would also report on the death of any making up the generation. We would therefore be able to accurately chart the declining numbers, calculate the average age at death and extrapolate a continually refined estimate of the year when all would be gone. That would give us an absolute end point, before which Armageddon must arrive.
All we had in the twentieth century were census numbers and statistical calculations. Now we have a small, specific number of individuals which we can track with scientific accuracy. Seriously, we never had a tool like this before. It seems remarkable that the Lord overlooked this possibility when telling us that we could not know the day or hour, nor the times or seasons. This must be seen as a major “oops!” in the grand scheme of things.
[…] the current Governing Body seems to be starting down the same path as their forbearers. The January 15, 2014 Watchtower provides a means to calculate the approximate length remaining in the last days. We seem to be […]
Ive just read the watchtower article dated jan 15 tell us when these things will be the theme scriptures very telling to me. Matthew 24 v 33. When you see ALL these things occur know that is near. What things had jesus just spoken of. Verse 29 to 31. Sun and moon darkened stars falling from the sky heavenly bodies shaken. Even if taken figurativly this is pretty serious stuff. The sign of the son of man in the sky. All the nations mourning. The gathering of the elect. Im not trying deliberatly to upset anyone here. Im just trying… Read more »
Serious stuff for sure. Actually, if one reads Mat. 24:4-14 with an unbiased eye, one realized that these things have been happening since Christ’s departure. We look at verse 14 as if only we as Jehovah’s Witnesses are responsible for the worldwide preaching of the good news, but the preaching to all the nations has been an ongoing work that has spanned the centuries. Only the events of verses 15 to 31 have yet to occur. Only those verses constitute the sign of his presence. Therefore, the generation of verse 34 only appears when the events of verse 15 transpire.
Yes i agree the same could be said of revelation 6. As well. Some commentries say that the seals describe world events over the last 2000 years. Starting with christs first appearance and ending with his final judgement. Its one possible explanation among others. We will have to wait and see
Why do the brothers always try and pin point the return of christ to judge mankind. And make us feel were on the very brink. I dont feel this reasoning is scriptural.one comment i read said those who do that have a heightened expectation which interferes with the normal course of life. I dont believe jesus ever intended that. See verse 40 to 42. Of matthew 24. And unbelievably if taken on face value verses 45 and 46. The brothers tend to look for some super spiritual hidden meaning in the verses. The whole illustration tells me what we need… Read more »
Excellent points Apollos. I have been considering the Scripture at 2 Peter 3:7-9 “But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” This… Read more »
It seems that most people who object to the material on this site have a fundamental misunderstanding about the implications of dropping JW chronological doctrine. Eddie wrote in his first comment “You only have ONE LIFE TO LIVE. Once this Great Tribulation hits, it will be all to late to turn your ways and attitudes.” People like Eddie have been sold on the idea that it is necessary to perpetually make chronological calculations in order to “keep on the watch”. Jesus makes absolutely clear that such reasoning is a fallacy. In Luke 12:39 he says “if the householder had known… Read more »
The logic of “we can’t know when but we can almost know when” is extremely flawed. That would negate the whole ‘stay alert because you don’t know when’ counsel, as well as the ‘thief in the night’ and ‘watchman’ illustrations. Furthermore, the implication is that, down through the centuries, those who have faithfully followed Christ throughout their lives have only been able to do so because Jesus managed to dupe them – or allowed them to be duped – into thinking that the end would come in their lifetime.
I hadn’t thought of it from that point of view. The counterpoint shows the flaw in our Organization’s reasoning.
And then the cry of “peace and security” becomes a reality.
Thank you so much for the restoration of peace here to this beautiful site. I appreciate having somewhere to go and know that I am not alone in my thoughts, that others think as I do. We all love Jehovah and are most grateful for His goodness, love and mercy towards us. I have been hurt emotionally and spiritually on both the west and gulf coast by brothers who were not loving or tender to the flock, so perhaps my feelings are too tender, but I come here and my feelings are treated kindly and my questions are answered. I… Read more »
kev c – I am sounding condemnatory. Thank you for those scriptural reminders and I will take them to heart. Speaking truth out of love and concern for fellow man is not all marshmallows. Jer 9:5 – Everyone lies to his friend, and no one speaks the truth. The people of Judah have taught their tongues to lie. They have become tired from sinning. Eph 4:13-16 – This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person, growing until… Read more »
It wasnt particularly aimed at you peeley sorry but there have been some strong feelings expressed today. Its easy to get carried away. Jesus said what proceeds out of a mans mouth comes from his heart. And could defile him matthew 15 v 18 and 19. Matthew 12. V 35 to 37 is also very sobering. And a good lesson for all of us. But matthew 5 v 22 came to mind with one particular comment today. Weve all just got to try our best really. No ones perfect. James 3 v2. Thanks for your humility. Matthew 18 v 4.
The obvious answer is we thought we had a prophet class directing our efforts.
[Please reverse “ce would” to “we could” in prior post and erase this line. Thanks.]
Like you, Meleti, I remember a special public meeting about 1973 when we invited our Bible Students to the Kingdom Hall to explain that the generation that was about 10 years old in 1914 was now reaching the end of “70 or 80 years making up a generation” in the sense of Psalm 90/91.
The implication was that since we would count the remaining months to “the end,” those Bible students needed to pay heed.
What troubles me is how we turned a blind eye to such presumptuousness.
Hmm. First peter 3. Verses 8 and 9. And verse 15 come to mind as well. New world translation.
Yes, very applicable in this context. Thanks.
Well, Thank goodness Eddie can’t comment again, but I do hope he continues to read: Jer 26:29 – For behold, I begin to bring calamity on the city which is called by My name, and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished, for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth,” says the Lord of hosts.’ Rev 18:23 – The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of… Read more »
Powerful words, particularly those of Jer. 51:25, but I must concur with your assessment.
Thank you for removing the Eddie-strong individual from this forum. Now I make a refreshing beverage and continue reading in peace.
I have given Eddie fair warning, yet he seems determined to disregard the commenting guidelines for this site. These guidelines are based on our understanding of 2 Timothy 2:23: “Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights. But the slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all…instructing with mildness.”
Therefore, I will be removing any more comments of his that do not conform to this inspired direction from our Lord.
DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE WT PROPAGANDA The year 1914 was meant to herald the START of the new system 1914 was not originally taught as the date of Jesus’ enthronement. So when Russell made the announcement at breakfast in 1914 they were expecting a NEW SYSTEM to BEGIN and for this system to END!! But because they got that hopelessly wrong, a ‘refinement’ took place as the ‘new light’ got brighter. The WT revised their history and now most brothers believe the lie. The Society conveniently whitewashes its previous statements (by completely ignoring their earlier statements) and presents… Read more »
Since the prophet Amos was quoted here already, I will quote another scripture which is rarely quoted by the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but was briefly discussed in a recent publication, about 6 years ago, about the minor prophets.
I will quote it here as a sober warning for those who crave for Armageddon.
Amos 5
18 Woe to those desiring the day of Jehovah! What is this for you? The day of Jehovah is darkness, and not light.[LITV]
“STOP BEING FOOLS AND START TO LISTEN OBEDIENTLY TO THE FAITHFUL SLAVE!” That is quite a statement. Eddie, your zeal is to be commended, but it is sadly misplaced. In Jesus time there were many groups and individuals proclaiming the arrival of the Messiah based on the Messianic prophesies. There were many who even claimed to be the Messiah, but only Jesus of Nazareth was able to fulfill the scriptures that applied to the Messiah. We know this as Christ’s FIRST coming. While on Earth Jesus himself gave his disciples warnings regarding his SECOND coming, most notably that “no one… Read more »
As I understood today’s Watchtower study, those trained by Christ should be ready to stoop and wash the feet of any they wish to assist. Eddie appears to LOL (laugh out loud) a lot and cares little for the genuine feelings of others. “Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.” (James 3:18) Eddie, you don’t strike me as one who possesses much humility. You seem arrogant and unlearnable—not the kind of person that I would want teaching my kids. To me the only light you are making brighter is… Read more »
Also Eddie, has it not occurred to you that because of free-will in that humans are given time to repent and change their ways that the “end of this system of things” may not happen as you indeed appear to expect? God is not going by a timetable as we might expect? God is patient and slow to anger and does not desire “any to be destroyed” but does desire all of his “wayward children” to repent. Yes “children”, because we are all children of God. But to be an approved “son of God” and a “son of the Kingdom”… Read more »
Your being a bit to sensitive now. Lol! And your showing weakness.
Sure Jehovah would love ALL TO REPENT, but its on his time table according to the Bible, I could EASILY GO ON AND ON, BUTIT SEEMS LIKE KORAH AND HIS SONS, YOU ARE SET IN YOUR WAYS TO LISTEN TO YOURSEVLES THAN THE FAITHFUL SLAVE. LoL!
WT 75, 1/1 “Now, we know that Jesus Christ had been in heaven with his Father at the time of earth’s creation. (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:13-17) He knew the exact time of the creation of both Adam and Eve. (Gen. 1:26, 27) He knew precisely when 6,000 years of human history would be completed. He knew exactly when God’s seventh creative day, his great “rest” day began and when it would end. (Gen. 2:1-3) Yet, with all his perfect knowledge of chronology, ‘WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH’ he did not know the day and hour of his execution of judgment… Read more »
Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mat. 24:36)It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction…” (Acts 1:7) So, if I’m understanding you correctly, humans NOW know when the end is coming? Thank you for the obvious concern towards my eternal welfare. No, I have no intention of going to a “church”, and I really don’t appreciate the last sentence you used in your comment. I don’t name call people, I was… Read more »
Actually YOUR MISTAKEN TO THINK that I called you a fool. This is speakinf of i GENERAL TERMS, NOT TOWARDS YOU PERSONALLY. And NO, we dont know EXACTLY WHEN THE END IS COMING YET, but we are starting TO ZERO IN ON THIS AS THE LIGHT GETS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER. Try to see the THINGS UNSEEN! It take great insight to understand the very deep things of Jehovah 1.A MARKER, IS TO UNDERSTAND JEHOVAHS TIME TABLE. 2. WHEN PEACE AND SECURITY STARTS GOING OUT IN A VERY SIGNIFICANT WAY LIKE NEVER BEFORE 3 THE DISGUSTING THING STANDING IN A HOLY… Read more »
Using uppercase font is considered shouting. STOP BEING FOOLS cannot be taken as anything other than an insult to the readers of this forum, and it is certainly not the way a Christian is to behave. If you carry the name of Jehovah and yet act in a way that misrepresents his character, you are taking his name in vain. I would ask you to address your comments to the membership respectfully. This is a place for reasoned discussion not a place for intimidation tactics. Please review our Commenting Etiquette page before making any further remarks.
http://meletivivlon.com/commenting-etiquette/
What you need to do is stop LOOKING AT OTHERS,AND START LOOKING AT YOURSELF, avoid creature worship toward THOSE WHO SEEM TO STUMBLE YOU IN YOUR CONGREGATION. And yes, Jesus IS THE HEAD OD THE CONGREGATION and the Governing Body/Faithful Slave knows this too, so THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION WHAT SO EVER BY THE FAITHFUL SLAVE. BUT!, there ARE FAULT FINDERS in the JWs Organeztion who are full of [pride and dont like change. WHATS THE RUSH?? Hebrews 13:17 says “BE OBEDIENT TO THOSE WHO ARE TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over… Read more »
Eddie, Are you for real? If what you say then that one generation is 100 years, then brother Russell who by the way was considered as the “faithful servant” should have figured this out way back then, even though the scriptures clearly stated that “nobody knows the day or an hour” when the end of this system of things come to an end. And since you support the “Faithful Slave” AKA (Governing Body) who have now denied that brother Russell is a member of the “faithful slave” club, they have not stated anywhere in their own literature that is printed… Read more »
Eddie As I read your responses they seem more out of anger and stats, not out of true concern. Reread some of your responses: “WILL YOU BE NEXT FOR JEHOVAH TO CLEAN YOU OUT OF HIS ORG.?!! MAYBE SO!!” “STOP BEING FOOLS AND START TO LISTEN OBEDIENTLY TO THE FAITHFUL SLAVE!” Does that sound like anything up-building or something that stumbles or deters? The matter of fact tone and tossing out dates and times based on your speculation and not by Gods inspiration really is disconcerting. The thing that kept popping up in your writings were someone less interested in… Read more »
Eddie said: “So THINGS ARE NOW STARTING TO GET REVEALED MORE THAN EVER BEFORE COMPARE TO THE YEAR 1975. Not only that, but many of us Jehovahs Witnesses are finding that the Faithful Slaves mistakes of the past WERE NOT REALLY MISTAKES AFTER ALL BUT CLEANSING PHASES WHO WERE DONE BY JESUS who used the FAITHFUL SLAVE TO CLEAN OUT COMPLAINERS AND OPPOSTATES. And your INSIDE A ‘TEST AND CLEANING ‘PHASE OF 40 YEARS NOW!!!” I was there in 1975 and they it seems that they have not learned a thing from their past mistakes. I see nothing new REVEALED… Read more »
Very good comment. God does not make mistakes. To imply that the light gets brighter as if the Holy Spirit dims the light in the first place is inconceivable. There is no record of the faithful Paul, Jesus, Apostles, or the like, calculating when Christ would be enthroned. It was not their concern so neither should it be ours. This obsession with the GB calculating generations and his date of Christ’s “invisible” enthronement is unscriptural.
Hey Eddie, I just read this article today!….This is 2015! which location on the Promise Land are you now?
I have really become irritated with a lot of things lately. More and more I’m reaching the point of loving Jehovah my God with all my heart, and not caring one whit for going to the Kingdom Hall. The Bible says one thing and the Governing Body says something else. I’m not sure if I should call them the Faithful and Discreet Slave, or just the Corporate Heads. I look around the Kingdom Hall and it seems like there is confusion, resignation, and boredom on most faces. One or two elders are straining to be enthusiastic, but it all seems… Read more »
I felt the same today. A particularly boring talk and a shallow WT study. No depth and no passion. I use the time to read the Bible and it proves helpful, but for how much longer I cannot say.
Oh brothers me and my sons felt the same a few years ago. When a scripture was read at the meeting we used to read it then carry on reading the context and sometimes the entire chapter. The trouble is the more that. Was done the more i became dissillusioned. With the brothers interpretations. What finally pushed me over the edge though was the brothers attitude toward me which left me feeling so down that i couldnt take anymore. At a time when i really needed understanding and encouragement. May god bless you brothersand never foret verses like phillipians 4… Read more »
WT 75 ,1/1, ‘NO ADVANCE DATE TO BE GIVEN’ “In Noah’s time he was told, one week before the floodwaters fell, to take into the ark the specimens of the various animals that were to be preserved. (Gen. 7:1-16) But this does not prove that there would be advance notice in our time as to the exact day of Christ’s “coming” to destroy this present system of things. Back there Noah obviously had to know when to begin taking the animals into the place of safety. If he took them in too soon, when, perhaps, it seemed according to his… Read more »
Hi Eddie,
I see parallels in many things, but we are just talking about more human speculation, aren’t we? If you wish to follow men over the Christ and ignore the plan counsel from God’s word, that is your right. If you wish to believe you can know the day and hour by decoding the word of God using imagined parallels and so-called prophetic anti-types, ignoring the last 140 years of failures in this endeavor, then go right ahead.
The last 140 yrs as YOU PUT IT has been a TESTING AND SIFTING PROCESS, to the shocking surprise of MANY. And the SO-CALLED FAILURES of the Governing Body in charge, have only benifited those to who are not ANYMORE PART OF THIS ORG. John 6:52-61 says, “Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds… Read more »
In the same vein, it is remarkable that Jesus, THE greatest of all the prophets, the SON of God with an unparalleled level of understanding of the scriptures, backed up by Holy Spirit failed to calculate the date of his enthronement as 1914 by using the prophecies from Daniel in the same way Russell used them. Would it be fair to conclude that Jesus’ failure to calculate his own enthronement shows that Russell had a better grasp of the ‘truth’ than he (Jesus) did? So how is it, that Russell managed to do what the Son of God failed to… Read more »
That is such an obvious hole in the logic of the 1914 doctrine, and yet I never considered it before. Thank you for sharing that with us. You are quite right. The input from so many different minds, seeking both knowledge and understanding under holy spirit, is invigorating.
The fact that Jesus didnt mention the date of his enthronement doesnt mean that he failed to calculate it in relation to Daniels prophechy. He said to his disciples that he had much to teach them but they were not able to bear such information at present. Infact when Jesus tried to talk about going away (to heaven) the disciples were completely clueless as to his meaning. Maybe you could question why the Jewish people didnt question why the prophecy of end of gentile times did not tally with prophecy of Messiah’s appearance? Who knows maybe they did but were… Read more »
Maybe you could question why the Jewish people didnt question why the prophecy of end of gentile times did not tally with prophecy of Messiah’s appearance? Who knows maybe they did but were unable to conclusively answer.
I would think that the simple answer to this would be that the prophecy hadn’t yet been uttered. Jesus himself was the first to mention it as recorded at Luke 21:24. It is then possibly echoed in the Revelation to John (Rev 11:2).