In a previous article, we were able to establish that in all likelihood Jesus was referring to the wicked generation of Jews of his day when he gave his disciples the assurance found at Matthew 24:34. (See This Generation’ – A Fresh Look)
While a careful review of the three chapters starting with Matthew 21 has led us to that conclusion, what continues to muddy the waters for many are the 30 verses directly preceding Matthew 24:34. Do the things spoken of there have a bearing on the interpretation and fulfillment of Jesus’ words regarding “this generation”?
I, for one, used to believe so. In fact, I thought we could interpret the word “generation” to refer to all the anointed who have ever lived, since as children of God, they are the offspring of a single parent and thus, one generation. (See this article for more information.) Apollos also took a crack at the subject with a well-reasoned approach in which the Jewish people continue to constitute “this generation” down to the present day. (See his article here.) I eventually rejected my own line of reasoning for the reasons stated here, though I continued to believe there was a modern-day application. I am sure that this was due to the influence of decades of JW-think.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have always believed in a dual-fulfillment of Matthew 24:34, though the first century minor fulfillment has not been mentioned in quite some time. Perhaps this is because it doesn’t fit with our latest reinterpretation that has millions scratching their heads and wondering how there could be such a thing as two overlapping generations constituting what can only be called a “super generation”. There certainly was no such animal in the first century fulfillment which spanned a time period of less than forty years. If there was no overlapping generation in the minor fulfillment, why would we expect there to be one in the so-called major fulfillment? Rather than re-examine our premise, we just keep moving the goal posts.
And therein lies the heart of our problem. We are not letting the Bible define “this generation” and its application. Instead, we are imposing our own view on God’s word.
This is eisegesis.
Well, my friends…been there, done that; even bought the T-shirt. But I’m not doing it anymore.
Admittedly, it’s not such an easy thing to stop thinking this way. Eisegetical thinking doesn’t spring out of thin air, but is born of desire. In this case, the desire to know more than we have a right to know.
Are We There Yet?
It is human nature to want to know what is coming next. Jesus’ disciples wanted to know when everything he predicted was going to happen. It’s the grownup equivalent of kids in the back seat crying out, “Are we there yet?” Jehovah is driving this particular car and he’s not talking, but we still cry out repeatedly and annoyingly, “Are we there yet?” His answer—like that of most human fathers—is, “We’ll get there when we get there.”
He doesn’t use those words, of course, but through his Son he has said:
“No one knows the day or hour…” (Mt 24:36)
“Keep on the watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.” (Mt 24:42)
“…the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.” (Mt 24:44)
With three warnings in Matthew chapter 24 alone, you’d think we’d get the message. However, that’s not how eisegetical thinking works. It looks to exploit any Scripture that can be made to support one’s theory while ignoring, excusing, or even twisting those that do not. If one is seeking a means of divining Christ’s arrival, Matthew 24:32-34 seems perfect. There, Jesus tells his disciples to take a lesson from the trees which, when sprouting leaves, tell us that summer is near. Then he tops it off with an assurance to his followers that all things will occur within a specific time frame—a single generation.
So in a just one Bible chapter, we have three verses that tell us we have no way of knowing when Jesus will arrive and three more which seem to give us the means to determine just that.
Jesus loves us. He is also the source of truth. Therefore, he would not contradict himself nor would he give us conflicting instructions. So how do we resolve this conundrum?
If our agenda is to support a doctrinal interpretation, such as the overlapping generations doctrine, we will try reasoning that Mt 24:32-34 is speaking of a general time period in our day—a season, as it were—which we can discern and whose length we can measure approximately. In contrast, Mt. 24:36, 42, and 44 tells us that we cannot know the actual or specific day and hour when Christ will appear.
There is one immediate problem with that explanation and we come across it without even having to leave Matthew chapter 24. Verse 44 says that he is coming at a time we “do not think it to be.” Jesus foretells—and his words cannot fail to come true—that we’ll be saying, “Nah, not now. This couldn’t be the time,” when Boom! He shows up. How can we know the season when he will appear while thinking that he’s not about to appear? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Not withstanding, there is an even bigger obstacle to overcome if one wants to teach others that they can know the times and seasons of Jesus’ return.
An Injunction Imposed by God
About a month after Jesus was questioned about “all these things” and his presence, he was asked a related question.
“So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”” (Ac 1:6)
His answer seems to contradict his earlier words at Mt 24:32, 33.
“He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” (Ac 1:7)
How could he tell them in one place to discern the season of his return, even to the point of measuring it within the span of a generation, while just over a month later he tells them that they have no right to know such times and seasons? Since our truthful and loving Lord would not do such a thing, we have to look to ourselves. Perhaps our desire to know what we have no right to know is misleading us. (2Pe 3:5)
There is no contradiction, of course. Jesus isn’t telling us that all times and seasons are unknowable, but only those which “the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” If we consider the question just asked at Acts 1:6 and tie that in with what Jesus tells us at Matthew 24:36, 42, 44 we can see that it is times and seasons relating to his return in kingly power—his presence—which are unknowable. Given that, what he says at Matthew 24:32-34 must relate to something other than his presence as King.
When the disciples formed their three-part question at Matthew 24:3, they thought Christ’s presence would be concurrent with the destruction of the city and the temple. (We must bear in mind that “presence” [Greek: parousia] has the meaning of coming as a King or ruler—see Appendix A) This explains why the two parallel accounts in Mark and Luke fail to even mention the presence or return of Jesus. To those writers, it was redundant. They were not to know otherwise, because had Jesus revealed this, he would have been giving away information which it was not theirs to know. (Acts 1:7)
Harmonizing the Data
With this in mind, it becomes relatively easy to find an explanation which harmonizes all the facts.
As we would expect, Jesus answered the disciples’ question accurately. While he did not give them all the information they may have desired, he did tell them what they needed to know. In fact, he told them a lot more than they asked for. From Matthew 24:15-20 he answered the question pertaining to “all these things”. Depending on one’s point of view, this also fulfills the question concerning the “end of the age” since the Jewish age as God’s chosen nation did end in 70 C.E. In verses 29 and 30 he provides the sign of his presence. He closes with a reassurance regarding the final reward for his disciples in verse 31.
The injunction against knowing the times and seasons that the Father has put in his own jurisdiction pertains to the presence of the Christ, not “all these things.” Therefore, Jesus is free to give them the metaphor at verse 32 and add to that the generation time measurement so that they could be prepared.
This fits with the facts of history. Four or five years before the Roman armies first attacked, Hebrew Christians were told to not abandon their gathering together as they beheld the day drawing near. (He 10:24, 25) The unrest and turmoil in Jerusalem grew due to anti-taxation protests and attacks on Roman citizens. It reached a boiling point when the Romans plundered the temple and killed thousands of Jews. A full rebellion broke out, culminating in the annihilation of the Roman Garrison. The times and seasons relating to the destruction of Jerusalem with its temple and the end of the Jewish system of things was as plain to see for discerning Christians as the sprouting of leaves on trees.
No such provision has been made for Christians facing the end of the worldwide system of things which comes on the heels of Jesus’ return. Perhaps this is because our escape is out of our hands. Unlike first century Christians who had to take courageous and arduous action to be saved, our escape depends only on our endurance and patience as we wait for the time when Jesus sends forth his angels to gather up his chosen ones. (Lu 21:28; Mt 24:31)
Our Lord Gives Us a Warning
Jesus was asked for a sign by his disciples while they were on the Mount of Olives. There are only about seven verses in Matthew 24 that actually answer that question directly by providing signs. All the rest comprise warnings and cautionary advice.
- 4-8: Do not be misled by natural and man-made catastrophes.
- 9-13: Beware of false prophets and prepare for persecution.
- 16-21: Be ready to give up everything to flee.
- 23-26: Don’t be misled by false prophets with tales of Christ’s presence.
- 36-44: Be vigilant, for the day will come without warning.
- 45-51: Be faithful and wise, or suffer the consequences.
We Have Failed to Listen
The disciples misconception that his return would coincide with the destruction of Jerusalem and that there would be a new, restored nation of Israel rising from the ashes would inevitably lead to discouragement. (Pr 13:12) As the years passed and still Jesus did not return, they would need to re-evaluate their understanding. At such a time, they would be vulnerable to clever men with twisted ideas. (Acts 20:29, 30)
Such men would exploit natural and man-made catastrophes as false signs. So the first thing Jesus warns his disciples about is not to be startled nor misled into thinking that such things would signal his imminent arrival. Yet as Jehovah’s Witnesses, this is precisely what we have done and continue to do. Even now, at a time when world conditions are improving, we preach worsening world conditions as evidence that Jesus is present.
Jesus next warned his followers against false prophets predicting how close the time was. A parallel account in Luke carries this warning:
“He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.” (Lu 21:8)
Again, we have chosen to ignore his warning. Russell’s prophecies failed. Rutherford’s prophecies failed. Fred Franz, the chief architect of the 1975 fiasco, also misled many with false expectations. These men may or may not have had good intentions, but there is no doubt that their failed prognostications caused many to lose their faith.
Have we learned our lesson? Are we finally listening to and obeying our Lord, Jesus? Apparently not, for many eagerly embrace the latest doctrinal fabrication reiterated and refined in David Splane’s September broadcast. Again, we are being told that “the due time is near.”
Our failure to listen, obey and be blessed by our Lord continues as we have succumbed to the very thing which at Matthew 24:23-26 he warned us to avoid. He said not to be misled by false prophets and false anointed ones (christos) who will say they’ve found the Lord in places hidden from sight, i.e., invisible places. Such ones would mislead others—even the chosen ones—with “great signs and wonders.” It is to be expected that a false anointed one (false Christ) will produce false signs and false wonders. But seriously, have we been misled by such wonders and signs? You be the judge:
“Regardless of how long we have been in the truth, we must tell others about Jehovah’s organization. The existence of a spiritual paradise in the midst of a wicked, corrupt, and loveless world is a modern-day miracle! The wonders about Jehovah’s organization, or “Zion,” and the truth about the spiritual paradise must be joyfully passed on “to future generations.” — ws15/07 p. 7 par. 13
This is not to suggest that only Jehovah’s Witnesses have failed to heed Christ’s warning and been deceived by false prophets and false anointed ones making up fake miracles and pretend wonders. The evidence is abundant that the vast majority of Christians put faith in men and are being similarly misled. But saying we are not the only ones is hardly a cause for boasting.
What about the Great Tribulation?
This has not been an exhaustive study of this topic. Nevertheless, our main point was to establish what generation Jesus referred to at Matthew 24:34, and between the two articles, we have accomplished that.
While the conclusion may seem clear at this point, there are still two issues which we need to harmonize with the rest of the account.
- Matthew 24:21 speaks of a “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now…nor will occur again.”
- Matthew 24:22 foretells that the days will be cut short on account of the chosen ones.
What is the great tribulation and how and when are, or were, the days to be cut short? We will attempt to tackle those questions in the next article titled, This Generation – Tying Up Loose Ends.
_________________________________________
Appendix A
In the first century Roman Empire, long distance communication was difficult and fraught with danger. Couriers could take weeks or even months to deliver important governmental communiques. Given that situation, one can see that the physical presence of a ruler would be of great significance. When the king visited some area of his domain, things got done. Thus the presence of the king had an important subtext lost to the modern world.
From New Testament Words by William Barclay, p. 223
“Further, one of the commonest things is that provinces dated a new era from the parousia of the emperor. Cos dated a new era from the parousia of Gaius Caesar in A.D. 4, as did Greece from the parousia of Hadrian in A.D. 24. A new section of time emerged with the coming of the king.
Another common practice was to strike new coins to commemorate the visitation of the king. Hadrian’s travels can be followed by the coins which were struck to commemorate his visits. When Nero visited Corinth coins were struck to commemorate his adventus, advent, which is the Latin equivalent of the Greek parousia. It was as if with the coming of the king a new set of values had emerged.
Parousia is sometimes used of the ‘invasion’ of a province by a general. It is so used of the invasion of Asia by Mithradates. It describes the entrance on the scene by a new and conquering power.”
Has it occurred to anyone, that when Jesus is answering the same question the second time about the time of the end, he does not mention “the day or the hour”, which at that time as resurrected and glorified heavenly king would probably already know, but is telling those asking him: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons…”, meaning that the answer only applied to them asking him at that particular time and not to his anointed brothers in the future?
That’s one way of looking at it, but if his words are restricted in that way, we’d need some indication of an override clause. Given the track record of this “anointed brothers” I would say the evidence does not support your conclusion.
[…] our previous article, This Generation – A Modern-Day Fulfillment, we found that the only conclusion that was consistent with the evidence was that Jesus’ words at […]
I wonder if we could totally disconnect Matthew 24:29 from 24:21 and instead connect it with the anguish of nations of Luke 21:25. This anguish would be the tribulation of Matthew 24:29. Or could we connect Matthew 24:29 to verses 27 and 28 that are about the coming of Christ? That coming will cause “tribulation” to many. Just a thought…
If Matthew 24:32-34 really is about the 1st century, don’t we have a problem with verse 33, “He is near at the doors”. How was Jesus near at the doors back then?
A good question, Nightingale. First of all, we have to acknowledge that Jesus doesn’t say that “when you see all these things, know that I am near at the doors.” He uses the third person. Either he is referring to himself in the third person as he does when using the phrase “son of Man” (Mt 24:27, 30, 36, 39, 44) or he’s speaking of someone else. If he’s referring to himself, then it is interesting that he doesn’t use the phrase “son of Man”. He doesn’t say, “when you see all these things, know that the Son of man… Read more »
Thanks for the reply. Yes, that is one possibility, it might solve the problem. We have always automatically thought that the “he” is Jesus in that verse but maybe that is not the case.
Me too. For many years, I’ve been influenced by preconceptions, often originating from my JW roots, which have left me scratching my head as I’ve tried to make the scriptures harmonize with my own understanding. It’s not an easy mindset to overcome.
Meleti, I was looking at Matthew 24:33 at different translations, and please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that verse 33 is either “he” (Son of Man) or “it” – the coming event. Also in Luke 21:29,30,31 “He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.” This would be referring to the second coming, would it not?
The phrase “Kingdom of God” appears 32 times in Luke. That’s as many times as it does in all the other books of the Christian Scriptures combined. Looking at its use in the Bible, we see that it is not synonymous with the second coming of Christ. The second coming is a single event never to be repeated. The Kingdom of God is not a single event. It is true that Jesus followers viewed it that way, which explains their question at Acts 1:6. However, Jesus repeatedly instructed them differently. Go do the WT Library and enter “Kingdom of God”… Read more »
Meleti, You say, “It is more than a government as Jehovah’s Witnesses paint it. It is as much a state of mind as it is a literal government.” My reply to that would be – the Kingdom is present now in the sense that we are being instructed about the coming Kingdom through the teachings of Jesus Christ concerning his coming Kingdom. We are therefore responding to the Good News of the Kingdom as Jesus taught. We are learning about the Kingdom and developing the qualities necessary in order to qualify as rulers with Jesus. We are preaching the Good… Read more »
Hi Skye,
You raise some good points. However, there is a flaw in the reasoning that equates the “Kingdom of God” with the “Second Coming” of the Christ.
I think this is a significant issue and so will endeavor to address it in an article.
Thank you for bringing this subject to the fore.
Meleti
Came a little late in the discussion but glad to see we’re relatively all on the same page 🙂
Well Meleti I for one think you have cracked it!! Well done. This is no feint praise, but a worker deserves his wages and the least one can do, is to say thank you for providing the food. And I know that you will not allow the praise to go to your head as some have suggested in this thread that it would; because as you know, there are other matters where we don’t see eye to eye, but praise should be given were it is due. I really feel that you have cracked it, because for years a brother… Read more »
Great article, Meleti. I think there is only one “Great Tribulation” – the one that occurred when when the Romans besieged Jerusalem and finally destroyed it in 70 ce. My reason for saying so is that Jesus described it as being the greatest tribulation since the founding of the world and of a magnitude that will not be repeated. That description means there can only be one, and so logically the expression “the Great Tribulation” must refer to the one event that happened in the first century and does not apply to Jesus’ future coming. Now I’m not saying that… Read more »
I hope to write on this soon. One point though. Jesus didn’t say, “for then there will be the great tribulation”, but only “great tribulation”. The definite article would tend to the idea of uniqueness, but he left it indefinite. Another thing that is worth doing is a word search on “tribulation” in the Greek Scripture to see how it was used from an first century point of view.
A quick look at Strong’s shows the word for tribulation can also be translated as trouble, distress or pressure. The translation as “pressure” is intriguing, since Strong’s suggests this may be the primary meaning of it. By “pressure”, it is meant that a person would be ‘out of options’ or ‘confined’ so that they were limited in the choices they could make, or that they were being pressured or compelled into making decisions certain ways. In that sense, the concept is similar to Gog of Magog having a hook in his jaw, being compelled to move and act. A way… Read more »
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2347
Great as in great crowd or …? Since the word tribulation is derived from the word tribulum which means treshing; is there only a treshing of those in the first century? Sorry, cannot follow anybody down that road. The treshing / sifting in the end of age is greater as in number; many are sifted … makes much more sence… A pressing, pressure on many… Can one not see that today? It’s like earthquaces in our believes, in our lifes.. Matt 13:34.
Meleti, your article is interesting, and I appreciate the effort you put into it. It gives the distinct impression that “this generation” applies to the first century only. However, you wrote: “Unlike first century Christians who had to take courageous and arduous action to be saved, our escape depends only on our endurance and patience as we wait for the time when Jesus sends forth his angels to gather up his chosen ones. (Lu 21:28; Mt 24:31)” I couldn’t help but notice you included Matt 24:31 here. How is it that “this generation” applies to the first century, but things… Read more »
A valid point and one which I intentionally left hanging at the end of the article with the promise to follow up in a subsequent post. 🙂
It seems reasonable that there are two kinds of generation.I wicked seed and righteous seed.They have existed alongside each other from the fall of man.Each goes through their own tribulation. I think trying to interpret Jesus words in Matthew 24 and even say the book of Revelation in a strict chronological order is problematic, but if we apply many of the events described to the life cycle or spiritual journey of each individual things seem to have relevance. For example. The destruction of the temple at Jerusalem was literally an abandonment of worship which proved unsatisfactory.It was replaced with “people”… Read more »
Good points mark thanks
“are we there yet?” “we’ll get there when we get there!”. LOVE the analogy. Thanks!
Nicely explained Meleti, The two articles is simple and straightforward , jesus had talked about the destruction of the temple, the Jews when he was on trial, used that against him, also In the case of Stephen’s Martydom-acts 6:8-14,the destruction of the temple was used against him. The messiah was suppose to rule from jerusalem so the people believed, so, how could this magnificent structure be destroyed, matt 24:1,2..Fair enough so they ask vrs 3, good question, probably we would of ask the same thing, these things Jesus said would take place as history testifies to, there are eyewitness to… Read more »
Good article. Much appreciated. I sometimes like to take a very simplistic approach. Or find simple comparisons when I try to understand a situation or statement. If you would have lived at the time of Matth. 24. And were sitting with Jesus and other disciples on the mount. You heard the question being asked (not indicated whom from the disciples actually asked but apparently all were interested in that question). Then you heard the answer. And year hear all what is said (and written in chapter 24 and chapter 25 up to 26:3. It is actually one long answer. After… Read more »
Pearl may respond to your comment, she doesn’t know I posted her article, which I am wondering just why the link was removed before posting my “moderated” comment. If this site is “striving for unbiased research” then I ask, why was it removed and one earlier link in the string of comments was allowed to remain? At any point, you have been tolerant in the past by allowing me to link articles, which I have very much appreciated, but It seems a bit thought provoking as to why this one was removed when I consider your comment. If this “generation”… Read more »
I’m sorry. I didn’t know that what you posted was someone else’s article. For copyright reasons alone, I have now removed it. I misunderstood. I thought Pearl was your real name and Peely your alias. If I have allowed other articles to remain, it was an oversight. If you would kindly point me to them, I will remove them as well.
I’m confused, Meleti. It’s not clear where the copyrights apply and don’t apply. I see book references as well as links to personally written articles referenced by others who have commented, that are not removed.
Are you saying we should remove all links?
If you are aware of a copyright infringement, please let me know. Other than that, you need not be concerned.
I came by, due to tracing my traffic sources, in order to view the current thoughts being expressed on the various forums. I would be happy to contribute to the unbiased research which this site supports. The spine of my comment to follow, will be to offer scriptures which I feel may contribute to an overall Biblical view of this particular subject. I am not a litigious person, but if you are more comfortable with a direct post by the author, rather than a link being posted by an appreciative reader, I am happy to oblige. I am curious as… Read more »
Hi Pearl,
>>I am curious as to the scriptures which convince those who believe that the “generation” spoken of by Christ was limited to first century Jews.
Here’s the link that answers your question: http://meletivivlon.com/2015/09/19/this-generation-a-fresh-look/
You state that a generation “does not speak of a time, it speaks of a result.” Yet, further on you show that time is involved because all these things must occur before the generation passes away. This is a contradiction which you fail to resolve. You also include elements in “all these things” (such as the wheat and weeds) which are not part of the context of Matthew 24, but fail to show Scriptural support for including them. You also state that “the Greek of “generation” is actually speaking of something which spirit generates, or creates.” Sometimes yes and often… Read more »
I ask that you use this reply, rather than the others, because I added an important scripture to this post. My prayers are with you, and with all those now being sifted, during this great tribulation (Matt.12:37). I would like to respond to your comments… “further on you show that time is involved because all these things must occur before the generation passes away.” Does not every occurrence require time? The passing of time alone does not result in discernment. To be more precise about what the scriptures (and I) assert, is that the generation will not pass away, until… Read more »
To Pearl Doxsey: I have responded to your assertions by opening a topic on Discuss the Truth. (Click here to see it.)
Knowing what is coming in the next article, I think that we should hold off a bit on jumping to strong pronunciations. The picture is not quite complete without it, although Meleti is alluding to it in his conclusion. Splitting articles in series can have that unintended consequence sometimes. So I strongly suggest we all wait a little until the next article is written, and hopefully Meleti will publish the next one soon 🙂 🙂
This is a wonderful discussion. Thanks so much for so much enjoyment. However, it is very important that you realize that Acts 1 is a reference to Armageddon, which is not a specific time in the Bible, whereas the second coming definitely is. You state: “About a month after Jesus was questioned about “all these things” and his presence, he was asked a related question. “So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”” (Ac 1:6) His answer seems to contradict his earlier words at Mt 24:32, 33. “He said… Read more »
Actually Joshua, it isn’t a discussion. What I’m seeing is a man reiterating his views after being challenged about the lack of scriptural support. I should state that the purpose of this comment feature is not to provide a soapbox for every Tom, Dick, and Mary with an opinion, but rather it is a provision for sincere researchers to dispense additional information, even contrary views, that are supported by Scripture. I will let this one through, but if you wish to continue commenting then you need to back up what you say with scriptural evidence. Believing in scripturally unfounded human… Read more »
Meleti, Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Mat 24:30 “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. (nasb caps) You do not believe the “sign” twice referred to in… Read more »
Deborah,
If you read the article, you’ll find the answer to your question clearly stated.
Meleti,
“If you read the article, you’ll find the answer to your question clearly stated.”
Just asking.
I was hoping for something like: “No, I do not believe they refer to the same sign and here’s why…”
No problem.
But Deborah, you can see from the article I spent so much time writing that I do believe the sign of Christ’s presence is fulfilled by the events of verse 30. And I believe that “all these things” is fulfilled by verses 15 thru 20. I spend time in the article explaining why I believe that. So why are you asking me a question which the article has already answered?
Meleti, You wrote, “Jesus was asked for a sign by his disciples while they were on the Mount of Olives. There are only about seven verses in Matthew 24 that actually answer that question directly by providing signs.” There is only ONE verse where Jesus directly states what the sign is, verse 30. To believe the seven verses you refer to are the sign is inserting an assumption not supported by Christ’s words. If he had meant the seven verses you refer to were the sign he would have said so but he did not. We must allow Jesus to… Read more »
I understand now. You feel that we can’t count something like the “disgusting thing” or the darkened sun as signs, because Jesus didn’t explicitly call them that.
I disagree.
Meleti, “I understand now. You feel that we can’t count something like the “disgusting thing” or the darkened sun as signs, because Jesus didn’t explicitly call them that. I disagree.” This is the reason so many have gone “here and there”, eventually ending up nowhere. We must let Jesus explain himself otherwise we find ourselves in a thicket. You believe one way, others believe another. Who is right? Who is wrong? Truly it becomes a joke with people riding a merry-go-round. Why not take the humble approach and let the Son of God speak for himself. Mat 24:29 “But immediately… Read more »
“We must allow Jesus to explain himself.” YOUR WORDS! ““Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up… Read more »
Meleti, You apparently believe Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are like transparencies which can be placed one over the other, is that correct? I do not. Luke 21 does not ask for a sign of Jesus’ Presence as Matthew 24 does. Luke 21 does not warn that an immediate departure is required as Matthew 24 does. Luke 21 does not speak of a great tribulation that has never occurred nor will occur again as Matthew 24 does. For this, and other reasons, it can be safely said that Luke 21 and Matthew 24 apply to different time periods.… Read more »
That should read: “It does NOT ask for one!”
Your opinion is that Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are prophecies that apply to different time periods. However, you cannot prove this, so we are left with an opinion. I’ve asked you before for proof of your beliefs, such as my previous request for scriptural proof of your belief that there is an earthly hope held out to Christians, but you have always responded with opinions. I acknowledge that you have a right to your opinions, but the purpose of this forum is to deepen our knowledge of Bible truths, not express opinions as doctrines. We have left that behind… Read more »
Meleti, “Your opinion is that Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are prophecies that apply to different time periods. However, you cannot prove this, so we are left with an opinion. I’ve asked you before for proof of your beliefs, such as my previous request for scriptural proof of your belief that there is an earthly hope held out to Christians, but you have always responded with opinions. I acknowledge that you have a right to your opinions, but the purpose of this forum is to deepen our knowledge of Bible truths, not express opinions as doctrines. We have left that… Read more »
I misspoke, or miswrote actually. I shouldn’t have used the word doctrine. Too strong a word. My apologies. We all take a verbal misstep from time to time. You state however that I cannot prove my beliefs. If that is the case, then neither can anyone else and this site is a colossal waste of time. I do not believe that. I believe that the Bible can be used to prove the truth. If what one believes is true, then the Bible can be used to show that. If what one believes is false, then the Bible can be used… Read more »
Meleti, I am in general agreement with your post above. However, brother, I am not “spreading falsehood” by sharing scriptural research on a discussion forum. I am stating what I believe nothing more. Have no fear brother no one will change their thinking on the well entrenched belief that Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are triplets- it would be like saying the sun does not rise in the east- people immediately turn away from such “nonsense”. Of course, you are absolutely right, all questions regarding this point of view MUST be answered and proved both by scripture and… Read more »
>>people immediately turn away from such “nonsense”. Oh, but if that were only true Deborah. The fact is people eat up such nonsense, which is why we have so many deviant Christian religions. (I use “deviant” without the sexual overtones usually associated with the word in modern-day parlance) >> there is another requirement that cannot be disregarded and that is that to be accepted new views on scripture must be presented by an authoritative figure. This is human nature. This is not a requirement, but another deviation. Our only authority figure must be the Christ. I acknowledge that it is… Read more »
Meleti,
“So by all means, share your research with us. But do it as the Levites of Nehemiah’s day did. “And they continued reading aloud from the book, from the Law of the true God, clearly explaining it and putting meaning into it; so they helped the people to understand what was being read.” (Ne 8:8)”
Be careful what you wish for. 😉
Even so, my heart tells me I could provide scriptural and historical backup to the nth degree and it would not matter.
Thanks for posting this reply and yesterday’s as well.
Peace.
>>Even so, my heart tells me I could provide scriptural and historical backup to the nth degree and it would not matter.
Well, some would be nice.
Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the Earth
“No such provision has been made for Christians facing the end of the worldwide system of things which comes on the heels of Jesus’ return. Perhaps this is because our escape is out of our hands.”
Maybe Revelation 3:10, Revelation 7:1-3?
Exactly, GodsWordIsTruth. Thanks for including those.
I’m not sure if this is appropriate channel to raise problems with the site.
I can’t read the comments from my mobile phone without a huge orange reply button blocking some of the text.
I appreciate knowing that. Our site has been experiencing outages caused by memory constraints. On Monday the site was down for a good part of the day. The host company told me that the comment plugin we had been using was the culprit, though why after weeks of behaving itself it was using up so many system resources I do not know. However, when I shut it down, I suddenly got lots of spam comments, so it might be that our site was being overloaded by spam bots. (Sounds like something out of Doctor Who, doesn’t it?) In any case,… Read more »
Great review, every time I reread Matthew 24 and Acts 1 , I just laugh to my self and say why, or man Why, does the Organization not learn, I hope you have seen the new Secret weapon video on Jw broadcast about elders being the secret weapon, as they use the anti type of seven Shepherd’s and 8 leaders of men, and they apply that to the elders, of course they mention when the Assyrians attack us in the future ( aka the great tribulation ) we have to listen to the elders, of course they we all know… Read more »
What a joy to read your articles, this one is so helpful will be c/p and sending links of to those I know will appreciate.
Thank you, can’t wait for the next one.
Thank you so much.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1921_mauro_seventyweeks.pdf
The link between Daniel and the destruction of Jerusalem in the Olivet discourse explained by Philip Mauro. Let the reader use discernment, as stated by our Lord Jesus. One of the errors is to assume that Michael is Jesus, a view also held to this day by the Seventh Day Adventists, originating with that famous auto-didact William Miller.