A Word Before We Get Going
We started this forum with the intention of providing a virtual meeting ground for brothers and sisters from around the globe who wanted to engage in deeper Bible study than that which is possible in our congregation meetings. We wanted it to be a secure environment, free from the pigeon-hole judgment such discussions often evoke from the zealots among us. It was to be a place for the free, but respectful, interchange of scriptural insight and research.
It has been a challenge to keep to this goal.
From time to time we have been forced to remove comments from the site which are overly judgmental and hypercritical. This is not an easy line to trace, because the difference between an honest and open discussion which results in proving that a long-held, cherished doctrine is unscriptural will be taken by some as a judgment upon those who have originated that doctrine. Determining that a particular teaching is scripturally false does not imply judgment upon those who promote said teaching. We have a God-given right, indeed, a God-given obligation, to judge between truth and falsehood. (1 Thess. 5:21) We are obliged to make that distinction and indeed are judged on whether we hold to truth or cling to falsehood. (Rev. 22:15) However, we go beyond our authority if we judge the motivation of men, for that lies within the jurisdiction of Jehovah God. (Rom. 14:4)
Who Else Could the Slave Be?
We frequently get emails and comments from readers who are greatly disturbed by what they perceive as an attack upon those whom they believe Jehovah has appointed over us. They ask us by what right we challenge such ones. The objections can be categorized in the following points.
- Jehovah’s Witnesses constitute the earthly organization of Jehovah God.
- Jehovah God’s appointed a governing body to rule over His organization.
- This Governing Body is also the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45-47.
- The faithful and discreet slave is Jehovah’s appointed channel of communication.
- Only the faithful and discreet slave can interpret Scripture for us.
- Challenging anything this slave says is equivalent to challenging Jehovah God himself.
- All such challenges amount to apostasy.
This line of attack puts the sincere Bible student on the defensive immediately. You might merely want to research Scripture as the ancient Beroeans did, yet suddenly you are accused of fighting against God, or at the very least, of running ahead of God by not waiting on him to deal with matters in his own time. Your freedom of expression and in fact your way of life is put into jeopardy. You are threatened with disfellowshipping; being cut off from family and friends that you have known all our life. Why? Simply because you’ve discovered a Bible truth that has been previously hidden from you? This should be a cause for rejoicing, but instead there is displeasure and condemnation. Fear has replaced freedom. Hatred has replaced love.
Is it any wonder that we must engage in our research using aliases? Is this cowardice? Or are we being cautious as serpents? William Tyndale translated the Bible into modern English. He laid the foundation for every English Bible that would follow right down to our day. It was a work that changed the course of the Christian congregation and indeed of the history of the world. To accomplish it, he had to hide and often had to flee for his life. Would you call him a coward? Hardly.
If the seven points we have outlined above are true and scriptural, then we are indeed in the wrong and should desist from reading and participating in this website immediately. The fact is that these seven points are taken as gospel by the great majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses, because that is what we have been taught to believe all our lives. Like Catholics taught to believe the Pope is infallible, we believe that the Governing Body is ordained by Jehovah to direct the work and teach us Bible truth. While we acknowledge they are not infallible, we treat everything they teach us as the word of God. Essentially, what they teach is God’s truth until they tell us otherwise.
Fair enough. Those who would accuse us of going against God by our research on this site often challenge us with the question: “If you don’t think the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave…if you don’t think they are God’s appointed channel of communication, then who is?”
Is this fair?
If someone is making the claim that they speak for God, it isn’t up to the rest of the world to disprove it. Instead, it is the one making this claim to prove it.
So here is the challenge:
- Jehovah’s Witnesses constitute the earthly organization of Jehovah God.
Prove that Jehovah has an earthly organization. Not a people. That is not what we teach. We teach an organization, an entity that is blessed and directed as a single unit. - Jehovah God has appointed a governing body to rule over His organization.
Prove from Scripture that Jehovah has chosen a small group of men to rule over his organization. The Governing Body exists. That is not in dispute. However, their divine ordination is what remains to be proven.
- This Governing Body is also the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45-47 and Luke 12:41-48.
Prove that the faithful and discreet slave is this governing body. To do so, you must explain Luke’s version which mentions three other slaves. No partial explanations please. This is too important a point to explain only part of the parable. - The faithful and discreet slave is Jehovah’s appointed channel of communication.
Assuming you can establish point 1, 2, and 3 from Scripture, that doesn’t mean more than that the Governing Body is appointed to feed the domestics. Being Jehovah’s channel of communication means being his spokesman. That role is not implied in “feeding the domestics”. So further proof is required. - Only the faithful and discreet slave can interpret Scripture for us.
Proof is needed to support the idea that anyone has the right to interpret Scripture unless acting under inspiration, in which case it would still be God doing the interpretation. (Gen. 40:8) Where is this role granted in Scripture to the faithful and discreet slave, or anyone else during the last days for that matter? - Challenging anything this slave says is equivalent to challenging Jehovah God himself.
What scriptural basis is there for the idea that a man or group of men not speaking under inspiration is above being challenged to support their statements. - All such challenges amount to apostasy.
What Scriptural basis is there for this claim?
I am sure we will get those who will try to answer these challenges with statements such as “Who else could it be?” or “Who else is doing the preaching work?” or “Isn’t Jehovah’s evident blessing on His organization proof that he has appointed the Governing Body?”
Such reasoning is faulty, because it is based on a number of unsubstantiated assumptions being true. First, prove the assumptions. First, prove that each of the seven points has a basis in Scripture. After that, and only after that, will we have the basis for seeking corroborating empirical evidence.
The commenter cited at the start of this post has challenged us to answer the question: If not the Governing Body, then "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?" We will get to that. However, we are not the ones claiming to speak for God, nor are we the ones imposing our will on others, demanding that others accept our interpretation of Scripture or suffer the dire consequences. So first, let those challenging us with their claim to authority establish the basis for the authority from Scripture, and then we'll talk.
Click here to go to Part 2
Archived Comments
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Comment by Alec Holmes on 2013-07-01 21:41:03
Meleti, your website helped me analyse 1914 with objective eyes. After careful consideration of the points presented, I couldn't help but become more cautious before believing something, checking the evidence for it.
If what I believe is the truth, why should I be afraid to research it more deeply? It's not about wasting time with pointless debates, it's about making sure we're on the right path now and that one's hope for the future is built on rock, not on sand. If what I believe is true, it can stand any test. Truth doesn't change. And by proving it to myself I'm better able to explain it to others.
Comment by Just a truth seeker on 2013-07-02 02:00:29
Genesis 18
22 And the men faced around from there and went toward Sodom. And Abraham was still standing before Jehovah.
23 ¶ And Abraham drew near and said, Is it so? Will You cut off the righteous with the wicked?
24 Perhaps there are fifty righteous within the city; is it so You will cut off and will not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous ones that are within it?
25 Far be it from You to act in this way, to put to death the righteous with the wicked. Far be it from You. The Judge of all the earth, shall He not do right?[LITV]
Question: Are the Governing Body, AKA, "Faithful Slave", greater than God that we cannot question what they are doing or teaching us?Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-07-02 07:53:37
What an excellent question!
Reply by hezekiah1 on 2013-07-02 22:22:34
Great question. However, sadly I think they believe they are above questioning
Reply by Chris on 2013-07-10 16:25:16
Verse 25 has always been my favorite scripture. Particularly after a good friend of mine committed suicide many years ago and several ignorant individuals in the congregation said he would not be entitled to a resurrection. I have always found that verse comforting.
Reply by apollos0falexandria on 2013-07-12 08:03:38
I'm very sorry to hear about that Chris. It would seem that this is an area in which our stance has softened more recently. One of the finest and most encouraging funeral talks I heard in recent years was for a congregation member who had committed suicide. The matter was dealt with very sensitively, and it was made very clear that Jehovah knows the mind and the heart in ways that we cannot. The speaker openly spoke of the resurrection hope in connection with the person. No doubt you will have the chance to see your friend again too.
Apollos
Comment by JimmyG on 2013-07-02 07:35:27
On point 3, note the following quotes:
w81 3/1 pp 24-5: "The objectors may argue that not all of Christ's anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so perhaps the "slave" pictures only the LEADING ONES and the domestics those they serve in the congregation. There is no point trying to force an interpretation of the parable. Self deception is of no benefit and is spiritually damaging."
w13 7/15 p 22: "Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? that slave is a SMALL GROUP of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ's presence. Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful and discreet slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses."
Has the GB of 2013 'forced an interpretation of the parable' and become self deceived and spiritually damaged? Or does 'new light' over ride the 1981 'old light'?Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-07-02 07:38:42
Good catch!
Our current understanding seems to be based on the thought that only a small group prepare the food. However, the parable speaks nothing about preparing food; only of feeding. Do we not all feed one another?
Reply by apollos0falexandria on 2013-07-02 07:56:28
A most interesting article Meleti.
Great catch on that w81 quotation JimmyG. I guess at the time of publishing that they didn't consider that they might want the option to change their minds later. Except it wasn't "their minds". It was simply the product of a different group of men. And by reversing a position so radically it simply demonstrates that is all that is going on.
Reply by Vassy on 2013-07-09 11:30:16
Here is another interesting quote from the book "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached" (1973) Chapter 17:
"This limiting the “slave” to the twelve apostles, however, might allow for the doctrine of an apostolic succession or an episcopal succession, a succession of bishops (overseers) by the religious process of ordination. .. However, when we view the “faithful and discreet slave” as being the whole body of disciples (including spiritual overseers), it eliminates such a thing as “episcopal succession” that history shows has worked such harm and oppression in Christendom. The way in which the disciple Mark words Jesus’ discussion of this matter indicates that the entire body of disciples is involved. Mark 13:34-36 says: “It is like a man traveling abroad that left his house and gave the authority to his slaves, to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to keep on the watch. Therefore keep on the watch, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming [Greek: er?khe·tai], whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; in order that when he arrives suddenly, he does not find you sleeping.”"
"Since Jesus spoke of this “slave” in his prophecy concerning the “sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,” did that composite “faithful and discreet slave” first come into existence during his “presence” or parousia from 1914 onward? No; for Jesus’ illustration portrays the lord of the “slave” as going away, as a “man traveling abroad that left his house and gave the authority to his slaves.” (Mark 13:34) So the “faithful and discreet slave” is one “whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time.” (Matthew 24:45) It was more than nineteen hundred years ago, at his ascension to heaven, that the “master” of the composite “slave” went away, leaving the “slave” with instructions to feed the “domestics.” (Matthew 28:16-20)"Reply by Chris on 2013-07-09 16:28:36
What a classic quote Vassy.
Once again they convict themselves with their own words.
Laughable
Comment by junachin on 2013-07-02 16:19:19
It can be argued that we are God's organization in that we have dedicated ourselves to doing his will - we have given ourselves to Him. But the claim we seem to be making is that the earthly organization is directly analogous to an organization in heaven designed and created by Jehovah himself, the every movement of which is dictated directly by Him. This seems to me to be an unnecessary and imprudent claim.
Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2013-07-02 21:28:21
I fully understand the complexity of conscientiously averting causes for stumbling as others try to assert the obvious. Error has always learned correction over time and some are just too prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I began my studies with "Make Sure of All Things," and I subscribe to "All scripture [being] inspired of God" and not by men. So you have my support in keeping reason alive on this site, Meleti, as well as in the hearts and minds of those faithful to Jehovah through Christ!
Comment by hezekiah1 on 2013-07-02 22:35:17
Thanks for isolating these seven points. As we examine them one at a time it becomes quite evident that a scriptural basis does not exist for those statements made.
Sadly though, very few will even consider the possibility to examine these points in the light of scripture. In fact it would seem that of the most part, sincere JW are advised not even to consider such a notion that the GB is not the FADS. Such leads to a circular logic and thus no one questions anything the GB says or does. As we know, if anyone does, such ones are ostracized and labeled apostate. What a system.
The other thing that caught my attention in all of this discussion was that Jesus spoke of a parable here. Not a prophetic vision of what would happen. If that is the case, I believe the GB has forced an interpretation to fit what they already believed to be true.
Generally though, the way to find truth is to consider the evidence, and then be lead to a conclusion, not the other way round.
Comment by crazyguy on 2013-07-02 22:53:54
If the parable about the faithful and discreet slave is literal then so must be the one about the 10 virgins. So now where did we misplace the ten virgins, anyone???
Reply by hezekiah1 on 2013-07-02 23:14:16
I think you hit the nail on the head crazyguy. A parable is not literal, nor is it prophetic. The WT 02 9/1 says: Jesus’ illustrations took many forms, including examples, comparisons, similes, and metaphors. He is well-known for his use of the parable, which has been defined as “a short, usually fictitious, narrative from which a moral or spiritual truth is drawn.”
It would seem Jesus use of the parable regarding the various slaves would describe classes of people, instead of foretelling a ruling class. What i find strange though is I am finding this information right in WT publications, yet we seem to contradict it in other places such as the parable of the slave classes.
Comment by emilyjeff on 2013-07-04 19:12:52
In addressing this issue I find it is easier to start by attempting to prove who wasn’t the faithful and discreet slave and go from there.
The current teaching of the organization is that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is composed of the 8 members of the Governing Body when they agree as a collective body. They claim that the Faithful Slave was chosen by Jehovah in 1919 because of its timely distribution of quality spiritual food. Notwithstanding the fact that at that time the slave consisted of only one man, J.F. Rutherford, the quality of the food upon examination included a talk given by Rutherford entitled Millions Now Living Will Never Die in 1918 and continued to be presented into the early 1920’s as well as being published in print form. Christmas too was celebrated, even at the Brooklyn headquarters up until about 1926. So too the cross (now viewed as a symbol or pagan origin) appeared on the front cover of every issue of the Watchtower magazine up to October 15, 1931. These are just a few of the examples of the type of unscriptural food served at the time when Christ picked out this admittedly error-plagued source of information as the example of faithfulness and discretion, as the only one passing the test and chosen as the sole channel of communication through which our newly enthroned King, Jesus, would speak to his people.
Their claims of organizational authority rest not only upon their interpretation of Jesus Christ’s parable at Luke 12:42 which says “And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time”, but upon the way they make use of that interpretation. It is employed primarily to support the idea of a centralized administrative authority which exercises control over all members of the Christian congregation, namely the “other sheep” although they have now included the other “anointed” under the same umbrella.
Upon reflection on the two slaves spoken of at Matthew 24:45-51, which of the slaves appears to have the idea that the master should arrive at a certain time? It was not the faithful slave but the evil slave. That evil slave could not have felt that his master was delaying unless he expected him to arrive within a certain time frame. The faithful slave was content to continue to serve faithfully for as long as his Master was away, without a time limit set for the Masters arrival. It should be obvious to the reader which “slave” claimed for decades that the Master would arrive within the lifetime of persons born within a certain time period. Of course according to the latest information from the WT there is no evil slave.
As I understand it, Jesus question, “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave” is actually not focusing on the identity of some group, but is presenting a moral lesson that focuses on the conduct that shows one to be a faithful and discreet steward of the Master. Jesus was in saying in fact, ‘Who among you disciples will prove himself to be such a faithful and discreet steward?’ Rather than speaking of a group or class the primary application by Christ himself is to the individual Christian and what he does as an individual which will provide the proof. As we read at Romans 2:6,7: “And he will render to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good.”Reply by silas on 2013-07-05 02:09:16
Lets not forget That in the 2013 July WT the evil slave has been relegated to a state of hypothetical non existence.
Article says an emphatic NO to the evil slaves existence on Page 24...
(article)
"Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the
last days? No. Granted, some individuals have manifested a spirit
similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would
call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the
“great crowd.” (Rev. 7:9) But such ones do not make up an evil slave
class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His
words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet
slave. Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if
ever.” One scholar says that in the Greek text, this passage “for all
practical purposes is a hypothetical condition.” In effect, Jesus was
saying: ‘If the faithful and discreet slave were ever to mistreat his
fellow slaves in these ways, this is what the master will do when
he arrives.’ (See also Luke 12:45.) However, the composite faithful
and discreet slave has continued to keep on the watch and to provide
nourishing spiritual food."
(end quote)
Interestingly the anonymous scholar quoted here is from the NET bible online.
https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Matthew+1
Click on the link above and look for yourselves.
What the article does not quote from the same scholar, is the full quotation..
Here it is..
"In the Greek text this is a third class condition that for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition (note the translation of the following verb “should say”)."
What is important here is the "third class condition". This is purely describing the grammatical structure of the expression ( that of hypothetical third class condition) and not negating the fact that what is said has a probability of coming true. And as we know this will only be seen when Jesus comes to judge his slaves..
I have done a lit of research into this and am thoroughly convinced that the WT has taken out of context the quote from this scholar.
Comment by WT Study: Do You Appreciate What You Have Received? | Beroean Pickets on 2015-02-23 07:52:52
[…] quickly then: Our judicial system, apostasy, the role of Jesus Christ, the Governing Body as the Faithful Slave, our no-blood policy…each one crumbled as I found no basis in […]
Comment by 2016, Oct. 10-16 – Our Christian Life and Ministry Review | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2016-11-18 08:53:05
[…] 1919 is when Christ named the Governing Body as his appointed faithful and discreet slave. […]
Comment by Dave on 2017-06-07 13:20:16
1 John 5:2: "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and carry out his commandments"
The anointed should be happy when we are obedient to God, not them. It's always been that simple to me.
Luke 11:27-28:"Now as he was saying these things, a woman from the crowd called out to him: “Happy is the womb that carried you and the breasts that nursed you!” But he said: “No, rather, happy are those hearing the word of God and keeping it!”"
Comment by Love and Appreciation for Jehovah Lead to Baptism - Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2020-05-03 11:31:45
[…] https://beroeans.net/2013/07/01/identifying-the-faithful-slave-part-1/ […]
Comment by Dalibor on 2020-12-11 07:00:28
I would like to quote the wording of Mat.24:45-50 from Hebrew Matthew (prof. HOward's translation):
45 What do you think of the faithful and wise servant whose lord places him over his children to give (them) food in its time?
46 Blessed is that servant whose lord (finds) him doing thus when he comes.
47 Truly I say to you that he will place him over his children.
48 But if that servant should be evil and should say in his heart: My lord is late (in) coming,
49 and should begin to beat the servant of his lord and should eat and drink with gluttons,
50 his lord will come in a day for which he does not wait and at a time which he does not know. 51 He will divide him and place his portion with the hypocrites; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Pay attention to underlined differences. The placed servant is not appointed over all property, but over lord's small children - if the children were grown up, it would be emaciating for them. In the first step the servant has only reduced service concerning only their food. When he is found capable, he is appointed for all matters concerning the small children, like their education, recreation etc.
In the verse :49 there is singular. The evil servant beats only one specific other servant that was long previously appointed by his lord for some tasks in the household. We could ask, who is that one.