Comment by gogetter60 on 2013-12-31 08:10:41

Meleti,
I enjoy this blog and your commentaries, this is a place for "thinking" witnesses,
I respectfully ask how you (or others here) perform your door to door ministry when you do not agree with the message we are taught to use at the KMS.
I find myself struggling with this and would appreciate how you handle this.
.I at one time loved the service but it has become very difficult for me to reconcile the GB doctrines with what I really believe and actually fear someone may want to study.

Comment by hezekiah1 on 2013-12-31 08:51:01

Hello gogetter60
What I find helpful for the ministry is to simply use the bible. I talk about the kingdom, the resurrection hope, peaceful conditions and how Jehovah will bring this to completion. Those are all things I can prove using the bible. People seem much more relaxed and uplifted when I do that
In the end the scriptures always say it better than any human can.

• Reply by Dakota on 2013-12-31 10:07:06

  Sometime ago I was in a restaurant that I frequent, and reading from the Bible.I felt this urge to read a certain scripture to the waiter, and was praying as to how I would do this. Shortly after he came to me and said, "I notice you are reading the Bible... are you a pastor" I told him I considered myself more as a minister of God. He said," I've been having great difficulty in my life, will you pray for me?" I told him I would, and would like to read a scripture to him. After I read it he came to tears and said "That was exactly what I wanted to hear!" We read, and enjoy the Bible together on a weekly basis.
  Just like Hezekiah, when I preach, I simply use the Bible, and have experienced wonderful changes in people!
  PS : For some time now, I have realized that 1914 ,and Christ presence, as we are taught to day by the "slave", has an enormous amount of holes in it's logic, and therefore, cannot be true. I enjoy this site greatly...It reflects much of what I already have realized!

Comment by hezekiah1 on 2013-12-31 08:59:06

Hello Meleti
Thanks for your post. Your comments regarding the actual number of increase is thought-provoking. For many years in the congregation that I attend, I have not seen very many new ones come in from the field. I have seen some growth but mostly from internal growth from children of JW. I wonder if we keep statistics showing the origin of the growth we experience.
Even so your comments have helped me to see something that was actually in plain sight

• Reply by on 2013-12-31 15:56:33

  From my time as secretary I can tell you that nobody is keeping statistics as to where our growth is coming from. For an organization that now wants us to report how many tracts we place you'd think we'd be more interested in such things.

  • Reply by hezekiah1 on 2013-12-31 17:50:58

    Yes I also was a secretary for a time. I also found the fact that we are asked to track tracts very puzzling. As if we are keeping track of market research. What works, what doesn't.

    • Reply by anderestimme on 2014-01-01 10:46:41

      The amount of information easily available to the organization now is enormous. The fact that so little is used is telling. There is an awful lot the GB does not want to know.

Comment by on 2013-12-31 09:05:12

This editorial was written in 1949 by the late Vermont Royster and has been published annually on Christmas Eve for the past 64 years.
Dec. 23, 2013 5:40 p.m. ET
When Saul of Tarsus set out on his journey to Damascus the whole of the known world lay in bondage. There was one state, and it was Rome. There was one master for it all, and he was Tiberius Caesar.
Everywhere there was civil order, for the arm of the Roman law was long. Everywhere there was stability, in government and in society, for the centurions saw that it was so.
But everywhere there was something else, too. There was oppression—for those who were not the friends of Tiberius Caesar. There was the tax gatherer to take the grain from the fields and the flax from the spindle to feed the legions or to fill the hungry treasury from which divine Caesar gave largess to the people. There was the impressor to find recruits for the circuses. There were executioners to quiet those whom the Emperor proscribed. What was a man for but to serve Caesar?
There was the persecution of men who dared think differently, who heard strange voices or read strange manuscripts. There was enslavement of men whose tribes came not from Rome, disdain for those who did not have the familiar visage. And most of all, there was everywhere a contempt for human life. What, to the strong, was one man more or less in a crowded world?
Then, of a sudden, there was a light in the world, and a man from Galilee saying, Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's.
And the voice from Galilee, which would defy Caesar, offered a new Kingdom in which each man could walk upright and bow to none but his God. Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. And he sent this gospel of the Kingdom of Man into the uttermost ends of the earth.
So the light came into the world and the men who lived in darkness were afraid, and they tried to lower a curtain so that man would still believe salvation lay with the leaders.
But it came to pass for a while in divers places that the truth did set man free, although the men of darkness were offended and they tried to put out the light. The voice said, Haste ye. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you, for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
Along the road to Damascus the light shone brightly. But afterward Paul of Tarsus, too, was sore afraid. He feared that other Caesars, other prophets, might one day persuade men that man was nothing save a servant unto them, that men might yield up their birthright from God for pottage and walk no more in freedom.
Then might it come to pass that darkness would settle again over the lands and there would be a burning of books and men would think only of what they should eat and what they should wear, and would give heed only to new Caesars and to false prophets. Then might it come to pass that men would not look upward to see even a winter's star in the East, and once more, there would be no light at all in the darkness.
And so Paul, the apostle of the Son of Man, spoke to his brethren, the Galatians, the words he would have us remember afterward in each of the years of his Lord:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-12-31 09:14:37

  Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I do see that we, as Jehovah's Witnesses, are again falling into the snare of rendering to men what is only God's to receive.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2013-12-31 09:11:07

Question 9 of the written review asks about the two stages of the anointed being sealed. (Two evidently in accord with the new light of the 2012 Annual Meeting.) The W07 1/1 page 31 par.1 answer outlines three distinct stages by number.
Isn't it intrinsic to the process of sealing that it only happens once and finally to "seal" the content. Think of fruit (not a bad analog.) First one grows or finds suitable fruit. Then one selects individual fruit pieces for washing and other preparation - perhaps a blanch of hot water or an addition of sweetness.
At last the putting into vessels to be actually sealed, holding them in a stable and purified condition until needed for consumption.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-12-31 09:16:15

  Excellent analogy CLJ. Again, we are redefining terms to fit our theology. So many round holes, and nothing but square pegs.

Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2013-12-31 10:21:25

Meleti-
I am so excited reading your notes /takeaways from the meeting this week. It is very encouraging to be able to express our thoughts where they differ from the organization’s view week by week. This forum makes it so much easier to attend the meetings and make the comments that I really want to make at the Hall but would never make. You really have no idea thanks for this avenue it is really a blessing.

Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2013-12-31 10:48:24

Hi gogetter60,
For the past 5 years I only use the Bible in service. I do not place books, magazines or tracts etc. I use scriptures that are being featured in the suggested presentations every month as a guide for a topic for the sake of “unity”. I offer the bible studies but not in the traditional JW format. I usually offer the chance to come by weekly for 5-10 minutes (doorstep studies) to only share an encouraging scripture or the bible to expound on a topic. As a result, I have many bible studies and RV’s but no placements whatsoever lol. I pioneered for a decade. I use to take pride at looking at my FS report and seeing that my placements for the month were very high or had increased. It made me feel accomplished and that Jehovah was blessing my work. I did aid people “in the truth” during that time. My bible studies now are not resulting in “honesthearted ones to come in the truth” . However, I am no longer dropping studies that don’t make progress by the organization’s standards. Getting people to see that the Bible is God’s word, the Almighty God’s name is Jehovah, Jesus is our salvation and Ransomer, and that God promises that conditions will change (hope) are my basic features for my personal ministry. A few years back I was assigned to a Pioneer ( pioneer assist program) to work on my 0 placements. I humbly accepted but did not change my habits at all because of my resolve.
My view of metrics has changed since I have begun this journey of enlightenment. I am still very much obsessed with getting a certain amount of hours per month ( old habits die hard) but I enjoy my ministry so much more. I enjoy the ministry so much! I always have since knocking on my first door at the age of 5 :) I will miss the organized ministry terribly if I ever left this organization.

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-12-31 11:55:26

Thanks. I wasn't so sure about this weekly feature at first. It was done at the behest of one of our esteemed members. :) I'm happy that it has turned out to be a benefit. The ironic thing about it is that it is getting me to do meeting preparation, something I've never really done in all my years as a Witness.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2014-01-01 06:28:47

Bible Highlights Quiz:
(Revelation 15:2) Those who come off victorious from the wild beast are singing whose song?
1. Moses
2. The Lamb
3. Other
(Revelation 16:13) The unclean inspired expressions [that looked] like frogs come from:
1. the dragon
2. the wild beast
3. the false prophet
These expressions have the purpose of:
1. pouring out the bowls of God's anger
2. gathering together the kings of the earth
3. scorching the earth with fire
(Revelation 17:5-6) .The woman whose name is “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth” is drunk with the blood of whom?
1. The blood of the holy ones
2. the blood of the witnesses of Jehovah
3. the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
(Revelation 18:1-2) 18 After these things I saw another angel descending from heaven, with great authority; and the earth was lighted up from his glory. 2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen
For what reasons has Babylon the Great fallen?
1. Because she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation.
2. Because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen.
3. Because the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury
(Revelation 19:9-10) 9 And he tells me: “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage.” Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that!.
The voice speaking to John is:
1. the voice of a great crowd in heaven
2. one of the 24 elders
3. one of the four living creatures
4. a fellow slave of those who have the work of witnessing to Jesus
(Revelation 21:6-7) . . .I am the Al′pha and the O·me′ga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega?
1. Jehovah God
2. Jesus Christ
3. Michael the Archangel
(Revelation 22:1) 22 And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of whom?
1. Jehovah God
2. The Lamb of God
3. Heavenly Jerusalem
(Revelation 22:13) 13 I am the Al′pha and the O·me′ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
Who is the Alpha and the Omega?
4. Jehovah God
5. Jesus Christ
6. Michael the Archangel

Comment by Sargon on 2014-01-01 21:37:35

I would love to see a discussion of the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. My research in our publications was unsatisfactory.

• Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-01-02 07:19:04

  Sargon - I think you will find such a discussion emerges as part of the planned exchange between Meleti and myself on the nature of Jesus Christ.

  • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-01-02 14:07:44

    I am strongly anticipating that discussion ! It's coming soon I hope :)

    • Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-01-02 14:56:38

      I think we've agreed to have something ready for the end of January. Meleti can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

    • Reply by anderestimme on 2014-01-04 00:19:20

      So am I, GWIT. If there's a place where it's hard to keep track of who's who, it's in Revelation.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2014-01-02 07:02:58

Sargon-
Do you have difficulty in finding the words of Jehovah in this section of the conclusion to Revelation:
(Revelation 22:16-21) 16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’” 17 And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free. 18 “I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll. 20 “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” 21 [May] the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ [be] with the holy ones.

• Reply by Sargon on 2014-01-02 09:35:41

  Yes. To me it's obvious that this is Jesus speaking in chapter 22 of Revelation. At Revelation 22:13 we see Alpha and Omega together along with the "First and Last" and "beginning and end" used for added emphasis. In the oral review we admit that Jesus and Jehovah can both be called the First and the Last (Isaiah 48), yet we say that Jesus cannot be the Alpha and Omega. I believe we are so "Trinity Phobic" that we have begun twisting God's Word. Accepting that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega does not mean we believe that Jesus is the Father. However, I think we have to conclude that Jesus is eternal.
  @apollos
  I eagerly await your discussion of this topic later this month

  • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-01-02 14:22:28

    “Trinity phobic” is an awesome way to describe the extreme lengths the WTBS will go to to prove that Jesus and Jehovah are not the same person. According to the scriptures Jesus and Jehovah share many of the same titles God, Father, First and Last (or Alpha and Omega ) etc. It’s unscriptural and unnecessary .We can explain that Jehovah and Jesus are not the same person without denying the Jesus these titles based on scripture.

    • Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-01-02 14:53:41

      This is true, although it should be noted that the Trinity doctrine does not claim that Jesus and his Father are the same person either.
      I think you probably knew that GodsWordIsTruth, but I thought it was worth clarification since many do not.
      (By the way, just to avoid any possible confusion, I am not a Trinitarian.)

      • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-01-02 15:28:53

        You are correct Apollos I did :) Still clarfication is necessary for the benefit of those who do not.