To that end, we decided to constrain our research to the Bible itself, only going to other web sites if they offered research material, such as alternate Bible translations or denomination-neutral Bible commentaries and historical research. Our feeling was that if we could not find the truth from God’s Word, we were not going to find it from the mouths and pens of other men like ourselves. This should not be taken as a rebuke of the research of others, nor are we suggesting that it is wrong to listen to others in an effort to understand the Bible. The Ethiopian eunuch clearly benefited from Phillip’s help. (Acts 8:31) However, both of us started with a pre-existing and quite extensive knowledge of Scripture obtained through a lifetime of Bible instruction. Granted, our understanding of Scripture had been acquired through the lens filter of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society’s publications. Having already been influenced by the opinions and teachings of men, our goal was to get at the truth of Scripture by stripping away all things manmade, and that we felt we could not do unless we made the Bible our sole authority.
Simply put, we did not want to build on the foundation of others. (Romans 15:20)
We were soon joined by Hezekiah, Anderestimme, Urbanus and many others who have contributed and continue to contribute to our joint understanding. Through it all, the Bible remains the sole and ultimate authority upon which we base everything we believe. Where it leads, we will follow. Indeed, it has led us to some uncomfortable truths. We had to abandon the sheltered existence of a lifetime and the delightful illusion that we were special and saved simply because we belonged to an Organization. But, as I said, we loved truth, not “the truth”—as synonymous with the teachings of the Organization—so we wanted to go wherever it would take us, secure in the knowledge that while feeling “cut loose” initially, our Lord would not abandon us and our God would be with us as a “terrible mighty one.” (Jer. 20:11)
As a result of all this research and collaboration, we have come to some amazing and exciting conclusions. Secure with this foundation and in the full realization that our Bible-based beliefs would brand us as apostates to the vast majority of our Jehovah’s Witnesses brethren, we began to question the whole idea of what constitutes apostasy.
Why would we be considered apostates if our beliefs are based solely on what can be proven from Scripture?
The publications have long been telling us to avoid apostasy as one would avoid pornography. Any true blue JW visiting this site should have turned away immediately if he were blindly following this direction. We are discouraged from looking at any site featuring JW material that isn’t jw.org itself.
We began to question this “theocratic direction” as we had questioned so many other things before. We came to see that to not question would be grant another human the right to think for us and decide for us. That is something that even Jehovah does not demand of his servants, so from what source would such direction come, do you think?
Is Apostasy Like Pornography?
We have been warned for decades to give no place nor listening ear to the slander of apostates. We are told not even to say hello to such ones. 2 John 11 is given as support of this position. Is that an accurate application of Scripture? We are taught that other Christian religions are part of apostate Christianity. Yet, we go forth to defend our faith before Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, and Mormon. Given that, why should we fear discussing things with an apostate as defined by the Governing Body: i.e., a former brother who now holds a different viewpoint or belief?
Here is how we reason ourselves into this position:
(w86 3/15 p. 13 pars. 11-12 ‘Do Not Be Quickly Shaken From Your Reason’)
Let us illustrate matters in this way: Suppose your teenage son received some pornographic material in the mail. What would you do? If he was inclined to read it out of curiosity, would you say: ‘Yes, son, go ahead and read it. It won’t hurt you. From infancy we’ve taught you that immorality is bad. Besides, you need to know what’s going on in the world in order to see that it’s truly bad’? Would you reason that way? Absolutely not! Rather, you would surely point out the dangers of reading pornographic literature and would require that it be destroyed. Why? Because no matter how strong a person may be in the truth, if he feeds his mind on the perverted ideas found in such literature, his mind and heart will be affected. A lingering wrong desire planted in the recesses of the heart can eventually create a perverted sexual appetite. The result? James says that when wrong desire becomes fertile, it gives birth to sin, and sin leads to death. (James 1:15) So why start the chain reaction?
12 Well, if we would act so decisively to protect our children from exposure to pornography, should we not expect that our loving heavenly Father would similarly warn us and protect us from spiritual fornication, including apostasy? He says, Keep away from it!
The above reasoning is a practical example of the logical fallacy known as “The False Analogy”. Put simply is reasons that: “A is like B. If B is bad, then A must be bad as well”. Apostasy is A; pornography is B. You don’t need to research B to know it is wrong. Even a casual viewing of B is harmful. Therefore, since B = A, just viewing and give a listening ear to A will hurt you.
This is a false analogy because the two things are not the same, but it takes a willingness to think for oneself to see that. This is why we condemn independent thinking.[i] Publishers who think for themselves will see through such specious reasoning. They will understand that we are all born with the sex drive which becomes active around puberty. The imperfect human is drawn to anything that excites these feelings, and pornography can do that. Its sole purpose is to entice us. Our best defense is to turn away at once. However, the independent thinker will also know that we were not born with a desire to listen to and believe lies. There is no biochemical process at work in the brain that draws us to falsehood. The way the apostate works is by enticing us with meretricious reasoning. He appeals to our desire to be special, protected, saved. He tells us that if we listen to him, we are better than everyone else in the world. He tells us that only he has the truth and if we believe him, then we can have it too. He tells us that God speaks through him and we shouldn’t doubt what he says, or we will die. He tells us to stick by him because as long as we are in his group, we are safe.
Unlike the way we would deal with the temptation presented by pornography, the best way to deal with the apostate is to confront him. Do we not consider the teachings of the Catholic Church to be apostate? Yet we have no problem spending hours upon hours in the door-to-door witnessing work speaking with Catholics. Should it be any different if the source of the false teaching is an associate in the congregation, a brother or sister?
Let’s say you are out in field service and the household tries to convince you that there is a Hell. Would you turn away or break out your Bible? The latter, obviously. Why? Because you are not defenseless. With the Bible in your hand, you come well-armed.
“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit,. . .” (Hebrews 4:12)
So why would things be any different if the one promoting the false doctrine is a brother, a close associate in the congregation?
Really, who is the greatest apostate of all time? Is it not the Devil? And what does the Bible counsel we do when confronted by him? Turn away? Run? It says to “oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.” (James 4:7) We don’t run away from the Devil, he runs away from us. So it is with the human apostate. We oppose him and he flees from us.
So why is the Governing Body telling us to run from apostates?
Over the past two years on this site, we have uncovered many truths from Scripture. These understandings, new to us, though old as the hills, brand us as apostates to the average Jehovah’s Witness. Yet, personally, I don’t feel like an apostate. The word means “a standing away” and I truly don’t feel like I’m standing away from the Christ. If anything, these newfound truths have brought me closer to my Lord than I have ever been in my life. Many of you have expressed similar feelings. With this it becomes clear what the Organization is really afraid of, and why it is stepping up the “beware of apostates” campaign lately. However, before we get into that, let’s look at the source of all the apostasy and heresy the church has feared and supressed from the second century down to our day.
The Greatest Piece of Apostate Literature
With the realization that I was now an apostate from the viewpoint of my own brothers and sisters in the Organization, I had to re-evaluate those I had long considered as apostates. Were they truly apostates or was I blindly accepting the facile label the Organization slaps on anyone it doesn’t want us listening to?
The first name that came to mind was Raymond Franz. I had long believed that this former member of the Governing Body was an apostate and that he had been disfellowshipped for apostasy. This was all based on rumor, of course, and turned out to be false. In any case, I didn’t know that then and simply decided to determine for myself whether or not what I’d heard about him was true. So I got hold of his book, Crisis of Conscience, and read the whole thing. I found it noteworthy that a man that had suffered so much at the hands of the Governing Body did not use this book to strike back at them. There was none of the anger, rancor and vilification common on many anti-JW web sites. What I found instead was a respectful, well-reasoned and well-documented account of the events surrounding the formation and early history of the Governing Body. It was a real eye-opener. Nevertheless, it wasn’t until I reached page 316 that I had what I would call a “eureka” moment.
That page contains a reprint of a list of “wrong teachings being spread as emanating from Bethel.” It was compiled by the Chairman’s Committee on April 28, 1980, following interviews with some prominent Bethel brothers who were subsequently dismissed from Bethel and eventually disfellowshipped.
There were eight bullet points, listing their doctrinal deviation from official organizational teaching.
Here are the points listed in the document.
- That Jehovah does not have an organization on earth today and its Governing Body is not being directed by Jehovah.
- Everyone baptized from Christ’s time (C.E. 33) forward to the end should have the heavenly hope. All these should be partaking of the emblems at Memorial time and not just those who claim to be of the anointed remnant.
- There is no proper arrangement as a “faithful and discreet slave” class made up of the anointed ones and their Governing Body to direct affairs of Jehovah’s people. At Matt. 24;45 Jesus used this expression only as an illustration of faithfulness of individuals. Rules are not needed only follow the Bible.
- There are not two classes today, the heavenly class and those of the earthly class also called “other sheep” at John 10:16.
- That the number 144,000 mentioned at Rev. 7:4 and 14:1 is symbolic and not to be taken as literal. Those of the “great crowd” mentioned at Rev. 7:9 also serve in heaven as indicated in vs. 15 where it is claimed that such crowd serves “day and night in his temple (nao)” or K. Int says: “in the divine habitation of him.”
- That we are not now living in a special period of “last days” but that the “last days” started 1900 years ago C.E. 33 as indicated by Peter at Acts 2:17 when he quoted from the Prophet Joel.
- That 1914 is not an established date. Christ Jesus was not enthroned then but has been ruling in his kingdom since C.E. 33. That Christ’s presence (parousia) is not yet but when the “sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven” (Matt. 24;30) in the future.
- That Abraham, David and other faithful men of old will also have heavenly life basing such view on Heb. 11:16
As you can see from the many hyperlinks, the conclusions which this group of faithful Christians arrived at on their own using the Bible and the hardcopy literature available to them at Bethel back in the 1970s, match up with the findings of our own Biblical research now, some 35 years later. Most, if not all of those brothers are dead, yet here we are at the same place they were. We got here the say way they arrived at their understanding, using God’s holy Word the Bible.
This tells me that the real danger to the Organization, the really subversive piece of apostate literature, is the Bible itself.
I should have realized this before, of course. For centuries, the church banned the Bible and kept it only in languages unknown to the general populous. They threatened with torture and ignominious death anyone caught with a Bible or trying to produce it in a language of the common people. Eventually, such tactics failed and the Bible’s message spread to the common folk, bringing about a new age of enlightenment. Many new religions sprang up. How could the Devil stop the hemorrhaging of divine teaching? It would take time and stealth, but he accomplished in by and large. Now everyone has a Bible but nobody reads it. It’s largely irrelevant. For those who do read it, its truth is blocked by powerful religious hierarchies bent on keeping their flocks in ignorance to ensure compliance. And for those who disobey, there is still punishment to be meted out.
In our Organization, elders are now directed to only use the 2013 revision of the New World Translation and individual Christians, while encouraged to read it daily, are also encouraged to study it using only the publications of the Watch Tower Bible & Track society as their guide.
It is now painfully obvious to us that the reason the Governing Body doesn’t want its followers to listen to the talk of those they label as apostates is because they have no real defense against them. The apostates they fear are the same the church has always feared: men and women who can use the Bible to ‘overturn strongly entrenched things’. (2 Cor. 10:4)
We cannot burn dissenters and heretics at the stake anymore, but we can cut them off from everyone they hold near and dear.
This is what was done back in 1980 as the footnote of this documents shows:
Notes: The above Biblical viewpoints have become accepted by some and now being passed on to others as “new understandings.” Such views are contrary to the basic Biblical “framework” of the Society’s Christian beliefs. (Rom. 2:20; 3:2) They also are contrary to the “pattern of healthful words” that have come to be Biblically accepted by Jehovah’s People over the years. (2 Tim. 1:13) Such “changes” are condemned at Prov. 24:21,22. Hence the above are ‘deviations from the truth that are subverting the faith of some.’ (2 Tim. 2:18) All considered is this not APOSTASY and actionable for congregational discipline. See ks 77 page 58.
Chairman’s Committee 4/28/80
But something else was also done in 1980. Something unscriptural and insidious. We will discuss that in subsequent posts on this topic. We will also look into the following:
- How does 2 John 11 apply to the issue of apostasy?
- Are we abusing the disfellowshipping arrangement?
- What kind of apostasy does the Bible really warn us about?
- When did apostasy first arise and what form did it take?
- Is the informant system we use scriptural?
- Does our stand on apostasy protect the flock or harm it?
- Does our policy on apostasy exalt Jehovah’s name or bring reproach?
- How can we answer the accusation that we are a cult?
______________________________________________________
[i] Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead, w89 9/15 p. 23 par. 13
Archived Comments
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Comment by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-05-22 01:10:15
Thank you for this, Meleti. I only read select chapters of Crisis of Conscience, but I was amazed by this "wrong teachings" list as well. Like you and the others on this site, I had also come to many of those conclusions by using the Bible exclusively. I saved a PDF of that page and was determined to see if others shared those views.
My search immediately led me to this website.
My spiritual awakening has been been profound ever since. I feel much happier now not held down so heavily by the doctrines of men. Christian freedom is a joyous thing.Reply by menrov on 2014-05-22 08:13:29
Thanks for this. I am surprised that indeed the same doctrinal deviations at that time have been identified in today's discussions.
I believe even secular organisations will come one day with rules on disfellowships by religious organisations.
Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-05-22 08:19:07
Thanks Meleti,
Very interesting and well-reasoned post.
I have not yet read “Crisis of Conscience”. And yet I find it very interesting that many of the things on the “list of wrong teachings” you show, I have also come to those same conclusions by taking off the “Watchtower Blinders” and doing honest bible research.
I look forward to your next post on this topic.
Comment by Harrison Webster on 2014-05-22 09:11:59
Thank you Meleti, a well expressed and reasoned article as usual.
I have now read Crisis of Conscience and R.Franz's later work "In Search of Christian Freedom". This second book has helped me to see how one can be close to the Lord Jesus and yet not support any man made organization.
I too was struck by the kindly, Christlike way Franz viewed his terrible treatment. He comes over as a kind, loving and humble man.
It is because I am a lover of truth, that love having been instilled in me from birth by my J.W parents, that I now feel I can no longer support the WT organization in any way.
The core teachings that are unique to JW's are in my opinion unsupportable from Scripture, as are some of the practices. I am convinced the Judicial Committee system, for example, as it is today is both unchristian, unscriptural and unloving, and denies basic Human Rights, such as the right to see the evidence against you beforehand.
The pattern of discipline for Christian Congregations as laid down in the Bible bears no relation to an individual facing three "prosecutors" in a private room.
I have no axe to grind on this issue, never having faced a Judicial Committee, this is just my observation on the system.
Your fine article has prompted me to ask myself "Who are the real Apostates ?" ,those who have simply ceased to support a man made organization, or those who have "stood apart"
from Biblical truth ?
I keenly await your further articles.
Thank you again.
Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-05-22 10:01:25
These “new understandings” are not so new after all. The GB absolutely knows that the “truth” is not the truth. We are children asking for a fish and instead they are choosing to give us a snake for the sake of upholding their traditions of men. ( Luke 11:11) How can a longing for the beautiful truths contained in God’s Word ever be wrong ??!!
“Samaritan Woman” has recommended Ray Franz’s book many times to me and although I have had the book for some months…something still felt…wrong about reading his book ( indoctrination much ?)
Thank you so much Meleti, Apollos, Hezekiah, Anderestimme, Urbanus and others for being so brave. May Jehovah continue to reward your brave and sincere efforts. The website is truly a labor of love.
I am convinced now more than ever that it is the leading of the Holy Spirit that helps the scales fall from your eyes if you reach for it. This article is timely and eye opening.
There’s very, very little that can move me to tears… I honestly cannot even see what I am typing because of the tears……Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-22 10:09:31
Thank you for sharing this. It takes a considerable amount of time to maintain this site and research the articles, but for all of us sharing that load, it is most heartening to know that it is benefiting others.
Comment by on 2014-05-22 12:04:49
I loved Ray Franz. We spoke on the phone and exchanged letters as well.
He did not, would not, consider himself without need of adjustment in his spiritual thinking, if necessary. He would not want people to read what he wrote and then to treat it as they once treated their Watchtower. I'm not saying that is what is happening on this site, to the contrary! But still I think it good to remind the friends that Ray was just a man, a good man in our eyes just as in his eyes there were good men at Bethel as well.
For those who are about to read Crisis of Conscience, please take note, Ray did not immediately leave the Witnesses after he was put out of Bethel. He attended meetings and was at one point about to be considered for an appointment in his congregation. I say this because many who read his book become so outraged, so indignant, that their first reaction is to leave or begin the leaving process.
Yet everything that led up to Ray's expulsion from the Governing Body was not enough to cause him to immediately disassociate or stop attending meetings. He took his time, he did not jump the gun, he gave it all a chance to work out...though he knew all the faults and sins of the Organization.
So Friends, think hard on things before you jump into different cold waters.
DaytonaReply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-05-25 19:28:23
Having read both books and resigning all positions, I find that it takes more strength and courage to remain within the JW framework using the Bible as the only basis of reason. Leaving in anger only strengthens hatred. Long ago I began to pray for wisdom and childlike appreciation for the love and patience needed to dispel such anger and frustration.
Like Nicodemus, I came to Christ in stealth only to be told that unless I was born again, I would remain Pharisaical. Only then did I truly appreciate what it meant to be born again, leaving behind the physical man to become a spiritual man in Christ (read 1 Corinthians 1-3 as well as all cross-referenced scripture), which really means to become sufficiently childlike to accept reproof and press on to maturity in love. My daily prayer is that all still trapped in the physical man will have the courage to break free. (Isaiah 8:18; John 1:12; 1 John 3:1; Galatians 3:1-6)
sw
Comment by on 2014-05-22 13:20:26
Thanks very much Meleti, it was an excellent post. I have always thought of myself of being a true blue JW. In fact I thought if I cut myself I thought I would bleed blue. Things started to change though as I did more research regarding the Generation. I resolved with myself that I would follow the truth wherever it would lead me. This has been a most amazing journey. However it has taken me to a place i never thought i would be. I came to the realization first regarding the year 1914 was not as 'marked" as we had first thought just through research. I came to be suspect of our interpretation of the generation. As I pulled the thread, things began to unravel quickly. The Memorial emblems, the first century "GB", and the "organization" all became much clearer as i researched them more.
One of the most telling signs that i was on the right path was when i used the Bible in elders meetings. At times i felt decisions were made that were out of step with the scriptures. When i used the Bible to try and shed light on the matter, I often received quizzical stares to outright hostility. The Bible was used so rarely in those meetings that many were surprised or angered when i used it. So indeed the Bible must be apostate literature.
This however raised quite the quandary. Could i stay and preach these things from the platform? Or do i resign and just keep my mouth shut.
Could it be that I turned into an Apostate? The very people i had a short time ago despised?
I don't feel that I am an apostate, yet i can see I am not quite a like JW anymore. A strange place to be.
Hezekiah
Comment by search4truth on 2014-05-22 14:37:28
think hard on things
before you jump into different cold
waters. Yes you are right Daytona. I am sure that many of us enjoy the association and close friendship of our christian brothers and sisters . But I would enjoy this association even more without constant indoctrination from the Wt. Many of our christian brothers and sisters will defend the Gb false teachings unable to see that they are deceived by a false teacher. I can't really blame them for that because I was myself and many still are simply indoctrinated . Wt uses indoctrination and they are very successful . Paragraph - Answer , Paragraph - Answer , from the infancy or people who converted to Jw are slowly but surely indoctrinated. We are told what to believe over and over again and before you know you accept it. We have support for everything in the Bible and it makes all perfect sense doesn't it ?No it doesn't , but when you find out ,if ever, its already too late and there are consequences for dissent. Of course you are free to leave , but we are going to tell your family to shun you until you'll come back to your senses. That kind of gives me an answer why many people think that we are in the cult.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-05-22 14:53:11
Thank you Meleti and other involved for going back to the simple Bible teachings and using our God's given ability to reason in preparing this articles. After 30 years of my live , living in the reality created by a Wt , I am able to see Bible in completely different light and I must say that even it is a very hard awaking I don't regret it. It is very freeing experience despite the hardship it creates.
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-05-22 17:01:57
Thank you Meleti and Apollos for this heartfelt and touching post. I think about all our dear brothers and sisters who have paid the high price for daring to ask questions and for outright disagreeing with the Watchtower and been labeled "apostate". They have been scattered to the winds....yet some still hold onto the faith that caused them to question in the first place. Jesus knows all his sheep no matter where they are.
I also appreciate this site....it is like a beacon in the night. We are all grateful for all the hard work that goes into keeping this site going and allowing the free interchange of discussion on the Discussion Board.
Daytona said "So Friends, think hard on things before you jump into different cold waters." The thing is Daytona, should it become known in the congregation what you really believe.....you will not have a choice, you will be cast aside like garbage. Just remember, all is not lost. Jesus will never leave us!
Comment by Christian on 2014-05-22 18:48:09
Could it be then that is exactly what the "man of lawlessness" is?
And that 'man' bridges all Christian denominations?
I often think that while Jesus knew the doctrinal differences between the Pharisees and Sadducees he did not play them off against each other, but focused on their lack of application of "the weightier matters of the Law".
He even called them "workers of lawlessness".
While the GB are certainly an extreme control group they are only one of many religious groups or individuals who misuse the role of teacher to their own ends.
While the Holy Spirit can enable all of us to use our abilities to serve Jehovah to the full, the role of teaching others comes with serious implications and warnings -James 3:1
I don't know, but the scripture says that the man of lawlessness will be "revealed"
We may well be witnessing a gradual revelation of who the man of lawlessness is as we come to a closer to the mind of Christ?Reply by imjustasking on 2014-05-23 07:28:07
Hi Christian,
My sentiments exactly. The revealing of the MO, will be the doing away with ALL religious hierarchies found in Christian groups. However that will not be a pleasant experience for Bro/Sis who have not taken the advice that no man should be trusted. As a result they will feel truly betrayed and let down.
Comment by kev c on 2014-05-22 20:04:45
Thanks meleti these things are very close to my heart . Around our way me and my family i heard are hated and considered to be apostates ive heard the elders have threatened to dissfellowship anyone that associates with us . And yet. I love the bible i have i have read the bible over and over again in context with ano honest and open mind . I have come to very much the same conclusions as you have. I have not read ray frans book my son has he has a university degree in britain he said one of the first things he was taught was to recognise a fraud from the truth he said franz s book seemed genuine . Oh meleti ive always been genuine ive always stood up for what ive felt the real truth is . I told them straight what i had learned from the bible not from any web site and i was kicked out . Perhaps this is how the apostle paul felt . Romans 10 v 1 and 2. I think all of us on this site though need to listen to the beattitudes mathew 5 v 10 11 12 happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness sake since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every wicked thing against you for my sake rejoice and leap for joy since your reward is great in the heavens .
Comment by Katrina on 2014-05-22 21:15:37
First of all thank you so much to Meleti, Appolos and others that have contributed so much, you have been faith strengthening, loving and kind, your work has been gobbled up like a delicious yummy cream cake, and a refreshing drink on a hot day. Love you all.
The org is run by modern day Pharisee's and Jesus warned us about these one's.
I believe that in the beginning the WT was used to gather in anointed, however Satan got control at the top especially in the days of Rutherford, and onto today as the GB have made it impossible for any anointed to part of the feeding of Gods sheep, in fact many over the years have written to the GB with their interpretation of scripture only to be dissed and looked down upon, some DF, isn't this what Christ warned about.
they are the superfine apostles of our day.
Matt 23: 1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and his disciples, saying, 2 'The scribes and Pharisees have put themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 So, do whatever they tell you to do… yes, do and pay attention! But don't do what they do, because they talk but they don't [practice what they preach]. 4 They put together heavy loads to lay on men's shoulders, which they aren't willing to live a finger [to carry]. 5 Why, everything they do is just done to be seen by men. For they broaden the [scripture-carrying] cases they wear and make the fringes [on their clothes] a bit longer; 6 they like the first place at meals and [to sit in] the front seats in the synagogues; 7 and they like to be greeted in the markets and to have people call them Rabbi. 8 But not you! Don't [have people] call you rabbi, for you have but one teacher, while you are all brothers. 9 So, don't address anyone on earth as Father, because there's just One who is your Father, the Heavenly One. 10 Nor should you be called leaders, for you have but one Leader, the Anointed One. 11 However, the greatest among you must be your servant… 12 whoever promotes himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be promoted.13 'Woe to you scribes and Pharisees – hypocrites – because you block out the Kingdom of the heavens before men… you don't enter it, and you don't allow others who are on their way to enter it! 14 —— 15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees – hypocrites – because you travel land and sea to make a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of the garbage dump as yourselves.
1Cor 4: 8 So, are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you started ruling without us? Why, I wish that you had started ruling, so we could also be ruling along with you! 9 For, I think that God has put us (the Apostles) last on the show as men who are condemned to death… we've become a theatrical spectacle in this world to both men and angels! 10 And while we are fools because of the Anointed One, you are wise in the Anointed One… we're weak, but you're strong… we're dishonorable, but you're the glorious ones.
_____________
One telling sign of the MOL is the operation of error, yes there is only one error. think about it. 2Thess 2:9 Could this operation of error be 1914 and the so called presence of Christ?
1. Many will come on the basis of Jesus' name saying "I am the Christ"(Gr., khristos..
anointed) and mislead many. Mtt 24:5,24
2. False anointed ones will teach an invisible secret presence of Jesus. Mtt 24:23-27
3. There would be the teaching that the Day of Jehovah and the presence of Christ were already here. 2Thes 2:2,3
Lk 17:26-30 Does Jesus not say of this event-- his presence and the end—that we will not know the day or the hour? Mtt 24:42
One thing for sure this MOL will be done away with by Christ, and I believe the MOL is being revealed today, but will be clear on Christ's authentic return.
Something also to remember.. Jesus was patient waited on Jehovah to allow the temple to be destroyed. Jeremiah was patient as was Habakkuk, David and other prophets.
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-05-22 21:49:36
Katrina, I read your post with interest.
"Matt 23: 1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and his disciples, saying, 2 ‘The scribes and Pharisees have put themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 So, do whatever they tell you to do… yes, do and pay attention! But don’t do what they do, because they talk but they don’t [practice what they preach]. 4 They put together heavy loads to lay on men’s shoulders, which they aren’t willing to live a finger [to carry].
When Jesus was saying these things, it was before his death and resurrection and ascension into heaven. Didn't his death end Christians obligations to follow the scribes and Pharisees as that old covenant was done away with, and the new covenant went into effect with the new spiritual congregation of the heart?
Also, you state "I believe that in the beginning the WT was used to gather in anointed". Is there a Scriptural basis for that statement? Could you be looking through JW glasses instead of unbiased glasses? That's what we've been told, but is it true? What reason do we have to think that the WT or GB was ever used by Jesus in any capacity??
Comment by Katrina on 2014-05-22 22:23:25
No but I really believe that many of Gods sheep are trapped in the org, and that the bible students in the beginning that were dissed were of the anointed. I think a lot changed for the worse with Rutherford he set up the org that the GB traditionally follow to this day.
There are many fine brothers in the congregations, and I truly believe as we can see from this site alone, that a huge awakening is happening.
I think the GB know this, and as Meliti said the bible is their fear, as many now are teaching from bible not WT doctrine. Their own literature is also showing to honest hearted bible students that its not all correct and in most parts does not make sense this puts the JW on a journey of discovering the very things that are being revealed on the net, not just here but on other forums and sites as well.
Comment by Christian on 2014-05-23 01:30:22
Hi Katrina,
Please don't be offended but I know you ascribe to Perimeno's view of the MOL being related only to the Bible Student/Jehovah's Witness movement.
For me this is where his viewpoint/interpretation becomes unstuck, because to do so you have to accept that Jesus was directly involved in the birth of the Bible Students above all the other Adventist groups that sprung up in the 1800's.
You then have to accept that having blessed the Bible Students and Russell he has somehow maintained that relationship into the organization we have today at the expense of every other righteous individual in other Christian denominations.
(The end game being that everyone but faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will perish)
You also have to accept that Rutherford's spin on Bible truth is mixed with genuine truths given to the organization from Jesus. In a sense, that Rutherford/ Knorr/Franz were being used by Jesus as he sees fit.
You need to accept parts of the Society's chronology for their arrival on the 'christian' landscape and discount other dates as the work of the MOL.
You also have to accept a quasi form of judgement already being taken on Christendom in the last 100 or so years, with Jehovah's Witnesses being the only ones found approved.
You need to accept the Society's version of the 144,000 and the other sheep as being a teaching sponsored by Jesus.
You also have to accept that Jesus has inspired Rutherford to use the name of Jehovah to distinguish them as his people.
In short you have accept that Jehovah's Witnesses are "The Christian Congregation" and everyone needs to be a Jehovah's Witness to be approved by Jesus.
Let me ask you how is that possible when, especially since 1985, we are not even baptized in his name anymore? Surely Jesus as Head of the Congregation would have managed to maintain that fundamental basis of our faith!
Why would he compromise on the the very fabric of our Christianity?
I have been reading Perimeno's site since his very first article, and while he is a very dedicated brother, he himself claims to have been visited by an angel of Jehovah who told him he was a "chosen one", yet he rejects the GB who also claim to be directly appointed by Jesus (though not visited) Why should you or I believe him any more than Joseph Smith?
I am sorry but I find this self righteous Jesus will kill everybody who is not a JW blitzkrieg approach to be arrogant and presumptuous!
And in that respect Perimeno at least is no different than the GB.
The truth is that Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's exclusive people, and never have been.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-05-23 02:38:51
Most of what you have said I don't agree accept or believe, I do read a lot of Perimeno but also many other sites, not just JW, and at the moment I am still on a journey of sorts, I don't think that the organization of JW have Gods backing, and no individual persons in any religion have been judged as yet.
I believe the congregations of JW have Christians there and have been misled, the same as with other churches all religion is wrong in aspects of beliefs. Perimeno is not the only brother or one that teaches as he does, there are others.
I believe Jehovah uses individuals and the people are Gods temple, I also think its important for Christians to meet and associate, to encourage one another, as they do on this forum.
I believe that there are sheep in all religions, and yes in JW including anointed brothers.
For me it has always been the Kingdom, I do believe that JW have that correct.
One thing I have learned mostly on my journey is about Christ to appreciate his ransom and to get to know Jesus on a personal level this has brought me on a journey that is becoming a new awakening for me, and this site has helped me tremendously.
I understand what you are saying and its much to think about and explore even more, thank you.Reply by Christian on 2014-05-23 09:18:40
Sorry Katrina, I reread my post and, as is my unfortunate habit, I thought I sounded rude and unkind. I aplogize for my tone. I was rattling off bullet points but there was no insult intended.
The thing that started me on my journey away from the WTS was the way they condemn everyone else struggling under the burden of Adamic sin yet confessing Jesus. I used to lie awake at night trying to reconcile the Society's view of the world with a God of Love and Justice.
It made me angry that they could be so dismissive of the enormity of the ransom.
But as Perimeno says they have relegated Jesus to a mere page boy between themselves and Jehovah.
So good to be free :)
Comment by SilverTop on 2014-05-23 07:08:18
First, let me add my voice to the thanks. You have NO idea how this site has helped my husband and myself to understand the Bible, and the truth it contains. Secondly, hubby is grateful for the information on the name Jehovah, thank you for that as well. We are currently reading Crisis of Conscience and it is an eye-opener! So many things I used to wonder about are now making sense!
I have long thought that the society uses fear and intimidation to control the religion's adherents, Jehovah doesn't demand, He gives us free will to decide what path we will take; the WBTS says, in effect, 'If you don't do what we say, we will take away your family and friends' . Now it makes sense why they are so against a college education, college encourages, indeed demands critical thinking ability, logical thought and teaches one to recognize false reasoning, and the Watchtowers favorite - the circular reasoning. Again, my brothers and friends, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Silvertop :)
Comment by imjustasking on 2014-05-23 07:22:30
OMG!! (in the most respectful way of course)
I personally never have read Crisis of Conscience for the simple reason that I wanted to work things out myself. Like you said in the opening of the article, you did not want to have human thinking propping up your beliefs, neither did I (but I feel that I'm in a position to do so now)
But, those 8 points listed by Franz are EXACTLY the same conclusion myself and a few other brothers have come to (and non of them have they read Franz's book). Remarkable.
The brothers that I now converse with grew up in the 'truth' and I had not seen them for about 15 years. However, it was incredible that even though separated by time and distance we had pretty much reached the same conclusions, highlighted by Franz. That is amazing!!
This challenge to the established authority is happening all over Christendom, which may be the stirrings of the Holy Spirit.
Finally, what a brilliant written article. I also have views on 1 John and other scriptures that the Society like to use to discourage conversation with 'apostates'. I'm sure our views will converge on these matters as well. I can't wait!! :-)
Comment by BN on 2014-05-23 09:08:51
I do think the heavenly hope is the EXCEPTION .. The greek word for resurrection implies that most get a earthly resurrection (the name Anastasia means 'she who will stand again') .. Even the Anointed got an earthly resurrection .. But I also belive that the great crowd is in heaven - they are part of the first group...
Comment by anderestimme on 2014-05-23 23:27:37
First, I have a 'devil's advocate' question: Do we have independent confirmation that Franz's bullet points really came from a Chairman's Committee note? I read CoC also, and got the same positive impression of Franz, but I still hate taking one man's word for it.
Secondly, I think the MOL can't help revealing himself. Like "The Man Who Would Be King", his lawless actions are his undoing. It seems that for many the newest explanation of "the generation" was a turning point. That's where the GB showed their lack of courage, humility and modesty in a big way. The voice was so disturbingly different from the voice of our lord that we could not help but take notice and feel alarmed.
If the organization doesn't bring upon itself a catastrophe soon, it will certainly experience a transformation. It will become the cult of the "faithful slave", with a new crop of organization toadies instead of 'slaves of the Lord'. 'The mystery of this lawlessness is already at work', and has been for some time.
Comment by BN on 2014-05-24 06:25:35
Or the organization will turn on the GB ?? Some will still follow them and think the others are apostate and that it's satan persecuting them .. I myself has been on this road for a while, but as a close friend said : But there's nobody else thinking that way My answer: How do you know ? Do anybody talk about their doubts? Is there a climate for such thoughts? After they proclaimed themselves the fds there has to be others . If not, they'll all sleeping ..No way, those few men are the fds ..By the way, I am one of those who do not believe there was a gb in the first centurie...
Reply by on 2014-05-24 11:07:48
BN
Your last comment, "I am one of those who do not believe..." could be considerably strengthened by reference to the three letters of John and the reveleation to John from Jesus Christ, noting the development of apostasy and the "sect of Nicholaus" and the round denoucing of both by the Christ.
An ecclesiastical heirarchy was in progress of formation, and no "governing body" was referred to. Therefore, the formation of a sect then must be the same transformation we are witnessing today inside the organization.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-24 12:00:11
An interesting observation, BN. Since 1950, the term "Governing Body" appears 1721 times in The Watchtower alone. Yet, not a single reference is made by Bible writers to such an important entity in the first century? Odd if we are to believe that it existed then and directed the work for 70 years. Additionally, "faithful and discreet slave" appears 1277 times in The Watchtoer, yet only appears in the illustration Jesus gave, but is never used by the Bible writers to refer to any entity or person as we do today.
Very telling...
Reply by anderestimme on 2014-05-24 14:56:54
The counter-argument might be that the first century GB was referred to as the "apostles", or "the apostles and older men at Jerusalem". A WTLib search for "apostles older men" brings up a few references in Acts 15 and 16 only. A search for "apostles" shows that early in Acts they were, indeed, the ones who took the lead, but in Eph 2.20 and Rev 21.14 they're referred to as the foundation stones of the congregation, suggesting that their position was unique and not to be repeated. Were anyone to aspire to be "apostles" in later times, they would fall into the trap of laying 'another foundation'. I believe that's what the GB has inadvertently done.
In any case, if some sort of GB were as important to the faith of the first century Christians as it is to modern-day JWs, we would expect to read about it quite often in the NT. Like door-to-door preaching and the un-anointed, it's conspicuously absent.
Reply by anderestimme on 2014-05-24 15:11:27
BN,
If the publishers aren't worried, they're not paying attention. There is, of course, no way to know how many are and how many aren't, but the GB has made an in-house rebellion exceedingly difficult to organize. However, since it follows that those of us who are unhappy with the direction the organization has taken are no longer contributing, money problems might be an indicator of our numbers.
One question I have is, who has the authority to dismiss the GB? If they are no longer the legal representatives of the WTBTS (am I right on that?), then couldn't the WTBTS oust the GB? Are there WTBTS shareholders who could, in theory, do it? Not that I think any of that is likely, but does anybody know if it is, at least theoretically, possible?
Comment by on 2014-05-24 15:24:56
Anderestimme-
The 500 voting members of the WT corporation may include 7 members of the governing body, but that leaves 493 other votes, many anointed who have been dis-enfranchised.
They now must vote their Christian conscience and consider the scriptural necessity to bring all things back into subjection to the Christ.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-24 16:54:04
Or become complicit themselves.
Comment by on 2014-05-25 07:05:53
I believe that when the Governing Body separated itself from holding official positions in their corporations they were no longer in danger of being removed by those holding voting rights in the Society. The voters elect officers in the Society, President, Treasurer etc, they do not elect Governing Body members.
They do not have the power to remove Governing Body members.
Could the officers of the New York Corporation or the Pennsylvania Corporation choose to act on their own? Could they take action to separate the corporations from the central control of the GB?
It would take great courage but most of all trust in Jehovah!
It would also take courage on our part to recognize that whatever change should come from such a circumstance it may not immediately be what we had hoped at first but rather it might be a slow turn toward change that may take a little time. As with Jacob's move toward home he had to allow time for the little ones in order that they might not give out on the way.
DaytonaReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-25 07:42:43
True Daytona. We have a board of directors and hold an annual meeting because the state and federal laws require. There are many corporations worldwide under the Watch Tower Society umbrella. Legally, the power lies in the board of directors and the voting members who elect or reject them. We have an odd arrangement in that these men totally surrender their power to the GB. However, they are not legally bound to do so. I don't believe that having done so for years give the Governing Body any ipso facto legal status. So the voting members could oust the Governing Body from anything pertaining to the legal operations of the corporation including the properties on which they live and work.
Comment by Samaritan Woman on 2014-05-25 08:45:20
I would rather be an apostate according to the Jehovah Witness definition than a hypocrite
According to Webster's dictionary a it is a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs.
Thank you so much for the time and effort involved in this website. The comments from others that draw out the details and are what is missing from the organization and what so many hunger for. I don't foresee any great reformation or mass exodus as some would like to believe. Instead I believe as the scripture says at Matthew 13 36-43:
" His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things.The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace.There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun+ in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen."
Not to be too blunt, but honestly, whatever happens to the organization is not really my concern. I must follow the Christ , where ever that leads me.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-25 09:53:50
I agree. We have been so indoctrinated into viewing the organization as pivotal to the outworking of God's purpose that now that we see the negative aspects of it, that view still holds sway and we give it too much importance but in the opposite direction.
Comment by MakeSureOfAllThings on 2014-05-25 08:56:28
Reblogged this on Make Sure of All Things and commented:
Another great article. Thank you. I am reminded of a passage from Isaiah... "The senseless one himself will speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself." (Isaiah 32:6, NW)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-25 09:54:48
How very applicable. Thank you so much.
Comment by Sargon on 2014-05-25 11:43:55
I guess my parents, dad elder/pioneer, mother pioneer didn't get the apostasy memo. I've shared with the ever point on the list except 2&8. Instead of telling me to talk to the elders, I've been told to do more research and write the governing body for clarification. They said I had some very good questions. Of course I was cautioned not to read apostate sites, but I told them I figured out thing just by reading the bible. To them it's all about the organization. They don't agree with the teachings, but are convinced it's Gods organization. I suspect many of our brothers feel the same way.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-25 12:08:41
The ability of the human mind to hold and believe two mutually exclusive ideas is quite remarkable and more than a little scary. I've actually been told, "So what if we're wrong about the Faithful Slave. The Governing Body is still the channel Jehovah is using..."
The fact is that for the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses the belief that this is Jehovah's one and only Organization is theocratic bedrock. They are so sure of this that it doesn't even enter their mind to question the pretext.
Since the Organization is Jehovah's, then He'll make sure that everything works out okay. If the Governing Body is wrong--highly unlikely in their mind, but even if it were true--Jehovah would set matters straight in his own good time. All we have to do is be patient, listen, obey and be blessed.
No one thinks that exactly the same train of thought likely guided the crowd that shouted for Pilate to impale Jesus. That crowd had even more reason to believe they were part of God's Organization. In fact they were. As Jehovah's Witnesses, we have had no Moses parting the Red Sea. We've had no cloud by day and column of fire by night. We did have Rutherford coming out of prison after nine whole months. So, like, yeah, it's almost the same. ;)
Comment by SilverTop on 2014-05-26 00:15:22
I would rather be considered an apostate in the society's eyes, than a hypocrite in Jehovah's eyes. You know, since starting to read the Crisis of Conscience (I also have every intention of reading, In Search of Christian Freedom) I've come to the startling realization that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT the only ones who have the "truth". The Scriptures say, "...the man who fears Him (Jehovah) and works righteousness is acceptable to Him..." So I will continue to obey the Scriptures to the best of my ability, and if that means I am at odds with the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, then so be it.
Agape,
SilvertopReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-26 08:11:49
It is the ingrained belief that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true religion that creates the cognitive dissonance that afflicts all those of us who go through the awakening process which the spirit leads us to. Once we come to accept that persisting in teaching falsehoods which misrepresent Jehovah and his son negates the claim of "only true form of worship", we begin to come out the other side. (Rev. 22:15) From there it is a single step to the realization that no organized religion on earth today has the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. One positive aspect of a lifelong devotion to the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses is that it has exposed us to the teachings of many other religions, so we don't have to embark on a time-consuming and futile search for the truth in the form of some other religious denomination as some do. We discern that all have a mixture of truth and falsehood. All are different ways to the same end: to get men to follow men. Which means that all are manifestations of the rulership of man; man dominating man to his injury. (Eccl. 8:9)
Rev. 22:15 is the key. The NET Bible renders it "Outside are the dogs...and everyone who loves and practices falsehood!" So it isn't getting a teaching wrong that condemns anyone. We are on the road to truth so it's natural that we'd get things wrong. What condemns us is--as is always the case--our heart condition. Once we understand that a teaching is false, the one who worships the Father in spirit and truth will abandon it. He who holds on to it does so because he loves the falsehood, the "lie" as the NWT renders it. Many of our brothers will reject our words because to accept them means abandoning the lie which they love for what it provides to them—a false sense of security and approval.
It is noteworthy that the NWT renders John 4:23 "with spirit and truth" and not "in spirit and truth" like every other translation I can find. The Greek preposition used here is en and not meta (with) as used in vs. 27. "With truth" indicates something you have or possess. "In truth" carries the idea of a state of mind or of a characteristic identifying the worshiper that God accepts. His whole inclination is toward truth, because God is the Father of truth, while Satan is the father of the lie. We are drawn to truth and thirst for it. (Rev. 21:6) Whenever we find more of it, we embrace it with longing, giving little consideration to what it requires us to abandon, even if that be the security of a lifetime. We consider it a small price to pay.
SilverTop, my sister, welcome to the journey.Reply by SilverTop on 2014-06-02 09:14:22
Than you my dear Brother. I can already tell, to quote my favorite actress, Betty Davis, "Hold on, it's gonna be a h------ ride!" This journey to enlightenment is both frightening and exhilarating. I've changed my thinking on various things. In days and weeks to come I may vacillate between opinions before settling on one course. I admit to having a certain amount of fear...it's always scary to let go of what is familiar and embrace TRUTH in all it's starkness, in all it's beauty, but...I CANNOT remain as I am, nor can I go BACK to what I once believed. I no longer believe that Jesus is going to "clean house", I now believe that to quote Jesus (can't remember he exact Scripture and don't have time to look it up as I'm on my way to work...)
"...look, your house is abandoned to you..."
Friends have a great day! Stay strong!
Agape!
Silvertop
Reply by Wild Olive on 2015-03-04 01:46:22
Do like this post Meleti,isn't it a relief to realise that all religions have a mix of truth and false as you said,and this ridiculous obsession of thinking that somehow they control salvation,including the GB.
The real pivot that turned me over was the new covenant,once I started really studying it my WT beliefs crumbled,I didn't realise how powerful a doctrine the new covenant and the ransom are,they stand alone and don't need any propping up or special pleading or any help of any description,and the GB are trying to hide it!
This can only lead to a negative judgement on Jehovah's part,as you said in another post,we all then all become complicit in GB sins.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-03-04 09:03:24
It truly is a relief, Wild Olive. It truly is.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-05-26 11:29:32
Watchtower November 1884. It becomes the duty of the hour for every saint to not only cast entirely aside every human yoke of bondage. and stand free indeed, (Gal. 5:1,) but to assist other saints to the same blessed liberty. When thus liberated from sectarian bondage, the spirit of truth will be able to lead into all truth: and such only are able to follow. Would not the union of heart at once bind all these “free” ones? And would not the union of heart under the “guide” of the Spirit of truth, soon be perfect? And would not union of labor be a natural accompaniment? We answer, yes ! So surely as we comply with the conditions, we shall have the result follow, as promised by the Lord: – “That they all may be one.” and then the result of this will be also as he expressed it, “That the world may believe.” (John 17:11, 21.)
If then it is seen that all the present systems are improperly named “Churches,” improperly organized, improperly bound together, and have improperly built upon the decisions of fallible and mistaken men, and are thus hindered from growth in grace and knowledge, and that these systems are not recognized by God at all, and never alluded to in His Word except to condemn them, then, duty is plain. “Come out of her my people,” will not be disregarded by those anxiously seeking guidance and cannot be disregarded without loss in knowledge as well as in favor of God. His sheep hear his voice and follow Him, and He leads them to green pastures.
One trouble which seems to beset many is this, They have become so accustomed to a fixed doctrinal fence of narrow limits on every side, that to place them in the green pastures of truth with its wide range of liberty, bounded only by the great fence of God’s Word; alarms them, and they ‘fear; lest they should get lost with such liberty. They have heard that infidels roam in a large field without any fence whatever, and fear lest they should be getting into that field. Some have written to us saying that they see the error of and hindrance from union with systems misnamed THE CHURCH of Christ and desire to come into the liberty, grace and knowledge of a larger place, but are at a loss to know what to join when they withdraw from present membership.Reply by kev c on 2014-05-26 16:37:45
I dont think any christian denomination today can claim to be gods exclusive worshippers en bloc . For one thing jesus seemed to make that clear in his parable of the dragnet and the wheat and the weeds .it was infiltrated right from the start. Thats very clear when we read the book of acts. Jude 2 peter galatians in fact all of the NT. God chooses individuals not congregations or organisations and even then none of us will really know whos who until the time when jesus invites those ones to be part of his kingdom in the heavens . The problem is with organised religion is that the politics of imperfect humans always get in the way . The drive for power , the pride ,the class distinctions ive seen it all first hand . I think the core problem with the jehovahs witnesses is that they just dont read their bible enough . And even when they do their study method is wrong .its like any subject to get to know it well one has to put the effort in to read the manual properly and regularly .Proverbs 2 v 1 to 6. Joshua 1v8. This is the whole point of 2 timothy chapter 3 which is misqouted so regularly by the brothers . We keep blaming those at the head of the organistion for misleading the flock but its not going to be ano excuse for anyone at the end . We all have the bible in our homes each one is responsible for his own spirituality. Yes others can help us at times but ultimately its our own responibility understand and apply gods words in our lives galatians 6 v 1 to 9. Kev.
Reply by Anjinsan on 2014-05-27 10:43:21
Moving speech.
Reply by Anjinsan on 2014-05-27 10:48:54
Moving Speech from russel.
Reply by on 2014-05-28 15:14:39
Ha ha ha anjinsan thats what i thought you meant . Kev
Comment by Jannai40 on 2014-05-27 10:18:56
With regard to comparing apostasy with pornography. Unfortunately the Society are very free with name-calling. This is a very hurtful practice and can cause much damage to vulnerable people. As Christians we would never want to resort to such tactics. I have been following the articles on Beroean Pickets for some months now and have found much encouragement from the articles. It is possible to pick up the pieces and build our relationship with our Heavenly Father and brother, Jesus Christ and find peace in "truly" knowing God's Word. John 8:31,3
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-27 10:49:21
Thank you for this comment, Jannai40, and welcome.
Comment by A Weapon of Darkness | Beroean Pickets on 2014-05-27 10:47:27
[…] [This post is a follow-up to last week’s discussion: Are We Apostates?] […]