[Watchtower study for the week of June 9, 2014 – w14 4/15 p. 8]
Study theme text: “He continued steadfast as seeing the One who is invisible.” – Heb. 11:17
Par. 1-3 – We do well to ask ourselves the question brought out in these paragraphs. “Do I have eyes of faith so that, like the “great cloud of witnesses” of Hebrews chapter 11, I can see the invisible one?” What we do by simply coming to and participating in discussion forums like this one requires faith. It takes time and effort and many of us do so at considerable risk to our social, emotional and even economic welfare. It would be so much easier to surrender ourselves to the will of others. To submit to men and their teachings and deny the reality that is revealed to us in God’s word. To just give in.
Faith allows us to see the invisible one and know what he wants of us. That imposes an obligation on each one. Moses could have ignored God and lived a comfortable, privileged life. Seeing the invisible one caused him to make the hard choice. A lack of faith causes spiritual blindness, a state many of our brothers and sisters prefer. They can live with the illusion that they are “good with God”—an illusion all too common throughout the Christian world. Doing so allows them to believe that they can surrender their conscience to men in authority and that by doing so, they are obedient to God and will be saved.
This belief is both seductive and pervasive, not just in Christendom, but throughout Satan’s world—the belief that our salvation can come through men or through an Organization. Hand in hand with this belief goes “fear of man”. Since we believe following them will deliver us, we fear displeasing them. It is easier to fear what we can see, but so unwise. Really, it is God we should be fearing to displease.
Par. 4-7 – Moses is shown to have overcome the fear of man, specifically of Pharaoh, for he had the “fear of Jehovah” which is the start of all wisdom. (Job 28:28) A modern-day example of such a faith in God is that of Ella, a sister in Estonia back in 1949. Many of the teachings we had in 1949 have been abandoned. However, her test wasn’t one of doctrinal interpretation but of loyalty to God. She would not give up her relationship with Jehovah in exchange for relative freedom. What a fine example of fearless loyalty she provided to us today.
Par. 8,9 – “Faith in Jehovah will help you to conquer your fears. If powerful officials try to restrict your freedom to worship God, it may seem that your life, welfare, and future are in human hands… Remember: The antidote to fear of man is faith in God. (Read Proverbs 29:25) Jehovah asks: “Why should you be afraid of a mortal man who will die and a son of man who will wither like green grass?”…Even if you must defend your faith before powerful officials…Human rulers…are no match for Jehovah.” We have to read past the immediate application of these quotes to the broader implications unwittingly expressed by the writer. During Israelite times, the persecution that faithful servants of God suffered came from the religious leaders within God’s own people. The early Christians likewise suffered oppression from those claiming to be led by God. As the centuries passed, the authorities that were to be feared were ecclesiastical in nature.
Is it any different for us today? How many of us have been persecuted by Catholic, Protestant or Jewish religious leaders? We have come to learn that the presence of Jesus is yet in the future, that we have no idea how close the end is, that all Christians should partake of the emblems. These are Bible truths. Yet we are afraid to declare them openly. Who causes us this fear? Catholic priests? Protestant ministers? Jewish rabbis? Or the local elders?
Paragraph 8 states: “You might even wonder if it is wise to continue serving Jehovah and angering the authorities.” In the six decades I’ve been serving Jehovah, the secular authorities have never tried to dissuade me from speaking the truth and I’ve never been afraid of angering them. The same cannot be said for the religious authorities holding sway over my life. It is for this reason that the work we do in researching Scripture and sharing our findings with each other and the world at large is done anonymously as part of an underground ministry.
Par. 10-12 – There is a thematic disconnect introduced in these paragraphs. The firstborn of Egypt were killed by God’s avenging angel. Israelites were spared by means of the blood of the Passover lamb. The Israelites didn’t go door-to-door warning the Egyptians. All of this has little to do with John’s revelation of the attack the nations bring on Babylon the great, yet we seem to be trying to connect these two scriptural elements. It appears we are making this effort to bolster a renewed call to preach the warning to get out of Babylon the great, the world empire of false religion.
The rule for Jehovah’s Witnesses is that if a religion teaches falsehood, then it is part of Babylon the great, and if you are still part of that false religion when the governments turn on all false religion, you will go down with it.
Point out any religion to a Jehovah’s Witness and ask him if it is part of Babylon the great, and he’ll answer with a firm Yes! Ask him how he knows and he’ll respond that all other religions teach falsehood. Only we have the truth. Then point out the Philippines-based Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ). The Iglesia Ni Cristo (INC) was founded in 1914 and boasts more than 5 million members worldwide. It doesn’t believe in the Trinity nor the immortal soul. It teaches that Jesus is a created being. Members do not celebrate Christmas. They have to study the Bible and pass a series of evaluation questions before being baptized. They believe the end is near. They believe the last days began in 1914. All of this parallels our own teachings. Like us, they believe that one cannot understand the Bible without the benefit of God’s Organization. Like us, they have a Governing Body. Like us, they believe the leadership of their church is God’s appointed channel of communication. Like us, they will expel members for drunkenness, fornication or disagreeing with church doctrine as revealed through their leadership. They believe the Father is to be worshipped and that he has a name, though they seem to prefer Yahweh to Jehovah. They also believe they are the true faith and all others are false. Again, just like us. They preach, though their methods differ from ours and they conduct Bible studies with new recruits. They are given training in public speaking. Their ministers work for free, like ours do. They do not disclose Church finances. Neither do we. They claim to be persecuted.
The question is, On what basis would we condemn them as false? Most of their core teachings agree with ours. Surely some do not. If they have even one or two major teachings that are false, that would invalidate all the correct ones and allow us to identify them as part of Babylon the great, the worldwide empire of false religion, would it not? I think the average JW would agree wholeheartedly with that assessment. After all, a little leaven ferments the whole lump, so even a couple of false doctrines would qualify them as part of the Babylon the great.
The problem with that position is that there is but one yardstick. If they do not measure up due to one or two false doctrines, then neither do we. In fact we have many false teachings, some minor and some major. By our own measure, we must be part of Babylon the great.
We can’t have it both ways. We cannot condemn the INC for whatever false teachings they may have while exempting ourselves from the same measure.
Par. 13, 14 – (I can only speak for myself here, but every so often, despite my best efforts at being understanding and magnanimous, there comes a statement that simply sticks in my craw.)
“We are convinced that “the hour of judgment” has, indeed, arrived. We also have faith that Jehovah has not exaggerated the urgency of our preaching and disciples-making work.”
Seriously!? What does Jehovah have to do with any exaggeration of the urgency in our preaching work? Our leadership, not Jehovah, has been exaggerating the urgency for 140 years. They are still doing it. This article does it. They’ve had one embarrassing failure after another, but instead of owning up to them, they’re suggesting that if we personally have a problem with this, we are lacking faith in God?!
“By faith, do you see those angels poised to release the destructive winds of the great tribulation on this world?” Let us hope you do. Let us also hope that you realize those angels have been holding the metaphorical winds back since the time John wrote the Revelation. Whether they release the winds this year or a hundred years from now shouldn’t change our faith nor lessen our sense of urgency. But that is not what we are saying in these paragraphs. What we are saying is expressed at the end of paragraph 14: “Faith…will motivate us to have a full share in the preaching work before time runs out.”
Par. 15-19 – “By the climax of the great tribulation, the governments of this world will have devastated and completely destroyed the religious organizations that were larger and more numerous than ours.” The implication is that our religious organization—which is already larger and more numerous than hundreds of other Christian sects—will be somehow ignored by these governments. We can have no doubt that true Christians who have gotten out of false religion will be passed over when the Governments strip Babylon the great of her vast wealth and confiscate her extensive property holdings; effectively stripping her naked and eating up her fleshy parts. (Re 17:16) However, the Bible only speaks of a salvation for a people, that is individuals of like mind and faith. There is no provision in the prophecy for the nations sparing a wealthy organizational entity like ours. Right now, officials in Detroit and Atlanta are very happy with the wealth our conventions will be bringing into their respective cities. (Rev. 18:3, 11, 15)
When Moses led the Israelites through the Red Sea, they were not an organization. They were not even a nation. They were a loose affiliation of family groupings under tribal leaders. All these individuals were being led by one man, not an organizational hierarchy. The Greater Moses is Jesus. The salvation parallel is clear. Only if we fear God and not man can we be saved. Only if we obey the Greater Moses’ teachings as expressed to us in Scripture, not the teaching of men, can we expect to find his favor.
There will come a time when God will remove all impediments to true worship by eliminating the religious authority of men embodied in the organizational hierarchies of Christendom. Then the words of Ezekiel 38:10-12 will come true and then, with his chief weapon against true worship gone, will Satan make one final attack against God’s people.
So the main point of the article is valid: Fear God, not man, and be saved.
Archived Comments
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Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-08 21:37:59
Meleti, another fine expose' of the WT Study: Do You See “the One Who Is Invisible”?
It has been quite a number of years since I went door to door. Reading your comments has caused me to wonder what exactly is the door to door urgent preaching work done by Jehovah's Witnesses about today? What is the purpose and what is the message? Making disciples of whom?
"It appears we are making this effort to bolster a renewed call to preach the warning to get out of Babylon the great, the world empire of false religion."
“We are convinced that “the hour of judgment” has, indeed, arrived. We also have faith that Jehovah has not exaggerated the urgency of our preaching and disciples-making work.”
"Seriously!? What does Jehovah have to do with any exaggeration of the urgency in our preaching work? Our leadership, not Jehovah, has been exaggerating the urgency for 140 years."
"What we are saying is expressed at the end of paragraph 14: “Faith…will motivate us to have a full share in the preaching work before time runs out.”
"Fear God, not man, and be saved."Reply by Chris on 2014-06-08 22:46:56
Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere.
"Religion is a snare and a racket" ;)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-09 08:10:34
With the clarifying addition of "Organized" as the opening word, it is one of the few teachings of Rutherford on which I'm in complete agreement.
Reply by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-12 01:31:19
What we are saying is expressed at the end of paragraph 14: “Faith…will motivate us to have a full share in the preaching work before time runs out.” - Why WT writers have to insert the phrase "before time runs out" or a similar one just to drumbeat the end is always near? Can we not preach w/out false time pressure? Can we not teach out of love for God and our neighbor?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-12 12:41:28
>>Can we not preach w/out false time pressure?
An excellent question Mailman. We had a fairly mediocre public talk a few weeks ago. Last days 101 stuff. However, the inactive son of one of the sisters who has recently begun to attend more frequently following a wake-up call death in the family commented on how much he appreciated it, because "understanding how close the end is gives us more drive to become active."
And there you have it. Sad, but true. We will see when the real test comes just how much value this methodology has.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-08 23:49:48
Making disciples FOR WHOM.
Reply by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-09 00:02:40
Thanks Katrina......Making disciples FOR WHOM?
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-09 00:43:16
excellent article by Meleti as usual and plenty of food for thought, as is your posts imacountrygirl2, enjoy reading and learning here, thank you!
Comment by on 2014-06-09 03:04:11
Oh man paragraph 14 gets me jesus illustrated what it means to have love and mercy in his parable of the good samaritan .we could ask ourselves am i moved to give a witness . Or words to that effect .For goodness sake is the parable about preaching or humanitarian works .This parable and its application is one of the most well known in the entire bible .the brothers need to go back to reading the bible story book again . Kev
Reply by Jannai40 on 2014-06-10 05:25:31
After over 35 years in the Organisation I realised that, especially with regard to the NT, I never really read the Bible - I was reading the Society's publications all those years; every time I read the scriptures I would look up the explanation in the publications. Thankfully, now that I have got my brain back, I am able to read the Bible as it was written and I have learned so much especially about Jesus Christ and the Good News of the Kingdom.
I think a problem many JW's have with reading the Bible is because they have been indoctrinated to believe that so much of it applies only to the 144,000 and so they don't really take it in. It's when you realise that the scriptures apply to all Christians that the Bible begins to open up to you, and it's amazing.Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-06-10 09:20:39
Yes Jannai40 that is true. When reading a scripture, I find that I am saying to myself, OK but what do other Bible Translations say.
For example:
Rev 5:10 in the New World Translation says:
“and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
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But notice that all these other Bible Translations say either “on the earth” or “upon the earth”.
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Kingdom Interlinear Translation (Rev. 5:10 says:)
“and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests, and they are reigning upon the earth”.
New International Version (Rev 5:10 says:)
“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."
New Living Translation (Rev 5:10 says:)
“And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth."
English Standard Version (Rev 5:10 says:)
“and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
New American Standard Bible (Rev 5:10 says:)
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
King James Bible (Rev 5:10 says:)
“And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
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So why did Jehovah’s Witnesses translate it as “over the earth”?
The answer seems obvious. To support their interpretation of prophecy that the 144,000 will be ruling from heaven.
How can all these other translations be wrong and only ours be right?Reply by Jannai40 on 2014-06-11 05:34:35
Thank you, BeenMislead, for pointing out Rev 5:10 - I'm still very much at the unlearning stage and finding it all very interesting and the information you point out is helping me in my studies. Certainly, if the Society has deliberately altered God's Word, then they are in trouble, Rev 22:18,19. I decided a while back not to use the NWT or the RNWT because I had decided after examining it that they had gone beyond the things written. I use the NIV but I like to compare other Bible translations too. I keep the RNWT for reference only in order to see what is happening within the Organisation - we need to know.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-09 03:27:03
this is so much like JW in many ways, their persecution complex, but I did notice that the bible was not present with the brethren.
interesting experiences.
http://incmedia.org/content/featured-news-lingayen-pangasinan-central/Reply by search4truth on 2014-06-09 07:50:05
This Church is copying us. Exchange the term executive minister for the member of Gb , ordained minister for elder and Our Lord God for Jehova and I would get very confused if this video is not about our JW philiphino brothers and sisters. Also experiences told by Inc church members are very similar to the experiences I heard so many times on our assemblies. For example in 7:26 member of Inc says - continue to follow the church administration to submit to them and unite and participate in all of the activities that they set in motion.
12:45 - we were not well to do, we lived far from the place of worship, but during those times when we had no money for our fare we would walk a out eight kilometres just to attend the worship service. And finaly 15:40 - I will love the church to the point that I would even give my own live if needed, this church is the true church ,God appointed the church adminitration.
Comment by on 2014-06-09 04:19:55
The hour of judgement has arrived revelation 14 v7 'the 2nd angel says fallen is babylon he great revelation 14 v8 . The hour of judgement comes upon babylon because of the intense persecution of gods true worshippers by her revelation 17 v6 the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and those who bore testimony to jesus.Revelation 18 v 20 rejoice saints apostles and prophets god has judged her for the way she treated you .Revelation 6 v 9 to 11 i saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of god calling out how long lord until you avenge our blood they were told to wait until there fellow servants were to be killed as they had .Revelation 17 v 12 the 10 horns will receive authority for one hour with the beast and war with the lamb And hate the harlot and burn her with fire v 16 . It seems to me the hour of judgement is a direct response for the severe persecution meted out to gods true worshippers . so has it arrived yet . Kev
Comment by Jannai40 on 2014-06-09 04:42:14
"We have come to learn that the presence of Jesus is yet in the future, that we have no idea how close the end is......" This can be a difficult thing to accept in our "unlearning" process - none of us wants to die. However, I have begun to look at it as an opportunity to cultivate Christian qualities (some of which as a JW I thought I had, but now realise I didn't!) This has caused me to think more about others and less about myself - learning to be unselfish. The important thing is what we leave behind with regard to our families, friends and others and that involves trying to be a Christian now. "Abraham lived a hundred and seventy-five years. Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people." Genesis 25:7,8 (NIV)
Comment by on 2014-06-09 04:45:40
Revelation 18 v 4 is interesting as well .come out of her my people so that you will not share in her sins so that you wil not receive any of her plagues .. It seems that babylon likely false religion exerts power over its members causing them to sin against god more than likely by persecuting gods honest and truthful messengers among other things .When it gets to that stage that the religion were in forces us against our god given conscience to sin its time to get out .2 thess 1 v5 and 6 Matthew 24 v 48 to 50 . Kev
Comment by search4truth on 2014-06-09 06:45:25
"We also have faith that Jehovah has not exaggerated the urgency of our preaching and disciples-making work.”
No no , Jehova has not certainly exaggerated anything, he is only using his faithful servant (Gb) on the earth to craftily move dates for the Christ second comming and final judgment day to sift and weed unworthy ones.Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-09 13:02:23
Well I doubt that any will NOT be sifted as wheat. There is a difference between what Jesus and Jehovah direct and what they allow.
sw
Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-06-09 10:34:02
Thanks Meleti for the information about the Philippines-based Iglesia Ni Cristo religion. I did not know about that.
Par. 10 Says:
“In the month of Nisan 1513 B.C.E., Jehovah told Moses and Aaron to convey these unusual instructions to the Israelites: Select a healthy male sheep or goat, slaughter it, and splash its blood on your doorways. (Ex. 12:3-7) How did Moses respond? The apostle Paul later wrote of him: “By faith he observed the Passover and the splashing of the blood, so that the destroyer might not harm their firstborn.” (Heb. 11:28) Moses knew that Jehovah is trustworthy, and he exercised faith in Jehovah’s promise to execute the firstborn sons in Egypt.”
I think the use of the phrase “unusual instructions”, and “Moses knew that Jehovah is trustworthy”, is them trying to reinforce their saying:
“At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” - (w13 11/15, Pg. 20, Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today)
Moses however, was able to give the people indisputable proof, (meaning impossible to question or doubt), that he had Jehovah’s backing. (See Exodus 4:1-9 and Exodus 4:29-31)
Sorry, but I don’t see that kind of proof today that the GB have Jehovah’s backing. In fact when the evidence is examined, it becomes clear that they do NOT have Jehovah’s backing.
Like Meleti said: “All these individuals were being led by one man, not an organizational hierarchy. The Greater Moses is Jesus. The salvation parallel is clear.”Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-06-09 13:54:08
I did not this about Rutherford. But it is not surprising.
The following quote shows the Anti-Semitism of J. F. Rutherford
“Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world, will never be the rulers in this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position.” - (Golden Age 1927, 2/23, Pg. 343, A Righteous Government)Reply by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-09 15:56:29
Jannai40, What a beautiful way to express your thoughts!
"I have begun to look at it as an opportunity to cultivate Christian qualities (some of which as a JW I thought I had, but now realise I didn’t!) This has caused me to think more about others and less about myself – learning to be unselfish.:
When we are unselfish, it will motivate us to show love to all our neighbors around us, and just as important, show our love for Our Heavenly Father. The more we love Jehovah, the more we are drawn to imitate his Son Jesus, as he gave us many examples of how to show love to one another. His only two commandments are as found in Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV) 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind'. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
When I was a JW, I used to think of only showing love to the brothers and sisters in our congregation, or only fellow JWs, which was really selfish. I was withholding my love, encouragement and support from all those around me...the very ones Jesus wants us to love.
In view of our loss of family and loved ones, it is an upbuilding thought to find an opportunity to use our new-found freedom to cultivate Christian qualities. It sure helps us focus on the positive instead of the negative.Reply by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-11 22:38:27
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” - I think this law even applies to JW disfellowshipped ones. Completely ignoring them, having nothing to do with them, treating them just like a person with leprosy is exactly the opposite of the law isn't it?
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-09 15:58:01
I wish I could remember the right way to post to keep everything in line. Oh well, no worries, I'll probably forget this as soon as I post it.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-06-09 20:06:24
Watchtower May 15/2014 - CAN ANYONE SEE THE FUTURE?
Religious leaders sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers. Doomsday prophet Harold Camping and his disciples widely advertised that the earth would be destroyed in 2011. Needless to say, the world is still here.
Human predictions are often based on such factors as scientific research, analysis of available facts and trends, or even bogus spiritual insight. After making their forecasts, humans typically sit back passively and wait to see what will happen.—Proverbs 27:1.
In contrast to humans, God knows all the facts. He thoroughly understands the nature and inclination of humans; therefore, when he chooses to do so, God can foresee exactly how individuals and entire nations will act. But God can do more than that. He can even control and change factors and trends to ensure the outcome. He says: “My word that goes out of my mouth . . . will not return to me without results, . . . and it will have sure success.” (Isaiah 55:11) In a way, then, some of God’s predictions are more like announcements or declarations. He actively guarantees a perfect record of success. Watchtower May 15/1984 - "Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: "This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur." (Luke 12:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time."
So beware of religious leader with bogus spiritual isight they make false predictions and gather folowers for themselfs. I wonder, don't the writers of the Wt magazine knows about the long history of failed prophecies they made ?Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-06-10 08:38:36
Yes ... calling Harold Camping a Doomsday prophet is definitely the pot calling the kettle black !!!
“In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975." This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the "last days" began in 1914, and that the physical fads of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end." – (Awake, Oct 8, 1966, P. 19, How Much Longer Will It Be?)
“Does this mean that the above evidence positively points to 1975 as the time for the complete end of this system of things? Since the Bible does not specifically state this, no man can say. However, of this we can be sure: The 1970's will certainly see the most critical times mankind has yet known. The deterioration in human relations-within families, communities, cities and nations, and between nations -will worsen, not improve. (2 Tim. 3:13) If the 1970's should see intervention by Jehovah God to bring an end to a corrupt world drifting toward ultimate disintegration, that should surely not surprise us.“ – (Awake, Oct 8, 1968, P. 14, What Will The 70’s Bring?)
“Instead, God's Word guarantees: "[God's] kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms [the nations}, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."-Dan. 2:44. When will this action be taken? All the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that God will bring this system to an end within our generation, indeed before many more years have passed. (Matt. 24:34)” - (Awake, May 22, 1969, P. 13, What Does the Student Revolt Really Mean?)
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-10 14:26:48
BeenMislead, you quoted the Awake of 1968, that was the year I graduated from High School. Sure enough it came to be (almost) as the Awake said "The 1970′s will certainly see the most critical times mankind (me personally) has yet known."
With that date fixed in my mind, I did not go to college. I did not buy a house. There was a house for sale within a mile of my parents that I could have easily bought at that time and my wise dad did his best to get me to purchase that house. I gave up on starting a family. Instead, I got a part time job and started pioneering. Indeed they were critical times FOR ME. The pioneering grew to become a yoke I could not bear with joy in my life.
Fast forward to today. I don't regret my life as I would not have my precious son and I would not be RIGHT HERE in this discussion, but I do regret listening to men and building my whole life based on speculation.
I truly believe that is why there is so much anger amongst those d/f or d/a. They grieve over the loss of that part of their life, wonder what could have been, and know they can never get those years back. Add to that the loss of their families and friends for choosing to walk away from the Kingdom Hall. Extreme pain causes extreme anger. Some cannot let go of that anger, though the majority I have met are rebuilding their lives and are happier than they have ever been before!
There is nothing we can do to change the past and the decisions we made then. The healthy thing to do is admit the loss and grieve over it. But we can't get stuck there. We have to bury the grief and move on. We have to find all the positive things that came out of those years, learn from the mistakes we made, and from this day forward become determined to only look ahead, for we cannot see the right way to go if we are looking back with tears in our eyes.
We can now revel in our new found freedom, after all those years in self-imposed bondage. Free to grow in love and appreciation of Our Heavenly Father and his only begotten son, Jesus. We can live every day to its fullest, live it as if it is our last day on earth....one day we will be right.
I once heard a saying that has stuck with me. "Don't die with your song still inside you!"
We can grow in our love for our fellow man, as Jesus commanded us to do. When you show love for your fellow man, it not only improves the quality of life for hose around us, it adds unspeakable joy to our own lives. When those around us can see our change of heart and change of actions, we are bearing witness that we are followers of Christ and our example can encourage and motivate others to have faith in Jesus as our Savior and grow closer to Him.Reply by on 2014-06-10 16:29:34
Nice warm comment that country girl thanks kev
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-10 17:33:06
Yes, food for thought for all of us. Thanks ImaCountryGirl.
Reply by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-11 12:33:56
But there were times, we could have done other equally important, uplifting things that exult our Creator. I guess preaching is not the only kind deed we Christians should do nor serve as the only benchmark for proving to be God's servant. WT has ingrained so much guilt for doing other good things apart from preaching and indoctrinating students of the bible. (Sigh)
Comment by Samaritan Woman on 2014-06-11 10:28:14
This statement stood out to me:
"Moses could have ignored God and lived a comfortable, privileged life. Seeing the invisible one caused him to make the hard choice. A lack of faith causes spiritual blindness, a state many of our brothers and sisters prefer. They can live with the illusion that they are “good with God”—an illusion all too common throughout the Christian world. Doing so allows them to believe that they can surrender their conscience to men in authority and that by doing so, they are obedient to God and will be saved."
Thats what the baptism of a JW means, surrendering our conscience. It is worse for a born in like me I think becuase I didn't know thats what I was doing. When a person converts they give it up piece by peice until we are in complete darkness. Our God has given the most valuable gift of self- acutalization: the achievement of one's full potential through creativity, independence, spontaneity, and a grasp of the real world. Yet we give it up so easily becuase then we can say as so many have before us " I was jusy obeying orders."
Through my journey I have realized that the more I give up my independence to God and his Son, the more independent I become. The blinders are off and I am more aware of the world and how I can be true to my faith. Moses reached his full potential when he walked as " seeing the one who is invisible." Thankfully this world has lasted long enough for me to see Jesus words that we will " know the truth and the truth will set you free." come true for me.
Comment by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-11 12:22:01
First comment here dear brothers. The separation of the sheep from the goat-like ones are still far into the future. The ultimate judge is not the GB but on our Lord Jesus Christ. Hence, it is very premature if not presumptuous at all to judge all other religions, much less their members, as false and destined for destruction. Doing so promotes self-righteousness.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-11 13:13:45
I agree and I disagree. We have no right to judge any man as God is the judge. However, judging religions of any kind is our duty. We have to obey God and make sure of all things, which requires us to evaluate the teachings of any religion and reject what is false, but hold on to what is fine. (1 Thess. 5:21)
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-11 13:59:53
Mailman, welcome to our discussion! You do raise a valid point: "Hence, it is very premature if not presumptuous at all to judge all other religions, much less their members, as false and destined for destruction. Doing so promotes self-righteousness."
As far as religion is concerned, is it really judging them to state the truth about them?
A fact is a true piece of information.
I agree with Meleti. "judging religions of any kind is our duty. We have to obey God and make sure of all things"
We can state facts about a religion or a sect or an individual without judging them.
As far as individuals, either inside a religion or outside of one, Jesus will judge us all.
Some unknown person once wrote a simple poem.
"Charity":
"There is so much good in the worst of us,
And so much bad in the best of us,
That it ill behoves any of us
To find fault with the rest of us."
Comment by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-11 21:52:35
Hi Meleti, thanks for the comments. I agree that every individual has the right to evaluate the teachings and doctrines of any religion. But for our organization to cast judgement on all other religions, confirming they are destined for destruction, is I think a bit too stretched. Isn't this preempting what the Lord Jesus Christ is set to fulfill? We don't want to play semantics here but isn't it the destruction of ungodly men is what the bible teaches and not destruction of religions per se?
Comment by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-11 22:10:35
Hello imacountrygirl2, good morning. It is our duty to obey God absolutely. However, it is not the same for men representing Him. Problem of being a JW is you cannot appear different, much less question its core beliefs and not be marked or be a candidate to sit down in a judicial committee, or worse, D'fd. GB has trumpeted from time immemorial that JWs have to OBEY their leaders at all cost. This has essentially taken away or diminished any independent thinking. I agree with you, every JW seemed to have lost a part of his personal identity just to conform to the religion.
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-11 22:47:11
Meleti, perhaps it is not correct to call it "judging" religion after all, especially in view of the valid points Mailman makes. (I say this because I agreed with you earlier on that point)
No single religion has it all figured out. Maybe what you meant is that we have to prove whether any religion has truth from the Bible. We won't find that truth in any one religion. Coming close is not good enough. All organized religion has been/is being judged by Jesus.
It is on an individual basis that Our Lord is judging us because he can read our hearts and he knows our thoughts. No organized religion on the face of this earth can save us. It all boils down to our individual relationship with Jesus.
There are some things in the Bible that I do not understand and I believe it will only be with divine help that I'll ever fully understand.
All those things I do understand that are backed by Scripture, are what makes up my faith. I don't have to know it all right now, but I do have to put into practice what Jesus
asks of me. Indeed, what he commands me to do.
I think this judging is a knee-jerk reaction based on Watchtower teaching, to want to judge everything and everyone around us. It's a superior, elitist attitude that has held many of us back from seeing the truth, because it takes humility to admit we got that part wrong, we're not so special after all....it's simply not our job to judge anyone. It's all we've ever known and so ingrained into our way of thinking about the world, it's one of the hardest to un-learn.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-11 23:30:33
It is so easy to get hung up on words. There is one judge over the whole earth, so we do not do the type of judging that Christ does, neither of individuals nor peoples. That meaning of "judge" defines the action of deciding judicially and pronouncing sentence. None of us has the right to pronounce sentence on another as to their value before God.
The Organization condemns all other religions as false, but itself as true. However, based on the criteria we use to do this, we ourselves must also be judged a false religion.
The use to which I was putting the word judge is from the SOED: "Form an opinion of or about a thing; make up one's mind as to the truth of a matter. Make a mental assertion or statement."
We have to right to judge in that sense--that is to form an opinion about the truth of a matter; specifically, regarding the truth of the teachings of any and every religion. But it doesn't stop there. This also applies to individuals. While I have no right to judicially judge another man, nor to pass sentence on him, I do have to make a determination about the character of everyone I choose to associate with to determine whether they would be good or bad association for me. By judging their actions and the deeds and even their speech, I make evaluations that must guide me for my own benefit. We all should do this.
So in our desire not to judge improperly by overstepping our authority, we might swing too far in the other direction and decide all judging is wrong and in doing so welcome in corrupting influences, teachings, and even individuals who will inevitably do us harm.Reply by Mailman (@Nico_CAN_DO) on 2014-06-12 01:12:32
Points well taken. Thanks for the clarification.
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-12 00:53:17
Meleti, thank you for your kind response.
Balance is the answer to many problems in life. You are correct, we have to be careful not to swing from one extreme position to another one just as extreme.
It's interesting that I was looking at 1 Corinthians 15:33 on Bible hub, when I noticed something strange about all the translations of that scripture. I was going to use that scripture to show why we need to avoid "bad association so as not to spoil useful habits". POP QUIZ!!! See if you can spot the difference.
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."
New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by those who say such things, for "bad company corrupts good character."
English Standard Version
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
New American Standard Bible
Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
King James Bible
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
International Standard Version
Stop being deceived: "Wicked friends lead to evil ends."
NET Bible
Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Be not deceived, evil discourse corrupts pleasant minds.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't let anyone deceive you. Associating with bad people will ruin decent people.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good character.
King James 2000 Bible
Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good morals.
American King James Version
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
American Standard Version
Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Be not seduced: Evil communications corrupt good manners.
Darby Bible Translation
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
English Revised Version
Be not deceived: Evil company doth corrupt good manners.
Webster's Bible Translation
Be not deceived: Evil communications corrupt good manners.
Weymouth New Testament
Do not deceive yourselves: "Evil companionships corrupt good morals."
World English Bible
Don't be deceived! "Evil companionships corrupt good morals."
Young's Literal Translation
Be not led astray; evil communications corrupt good manners;
Did you notice that not one of the different translations use the words found in the NWT? Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.
Does anyone have any idea why the NWT renders it the way they do? They seem to have a slightly different implication. Maybe one of Greek scholars can help us out? I can only speak English and Pig Latin.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-12 12:36:31
Based on how it has been used over the years, my guess would be that bias has entered into the translation. He "useful habits" are often understood to refer to our Christian routine of meeting attendance and field service. So rather than concern for our character, the inference is that our all-important "theocratic works" will suffer from "bad associations".
Reply by on 2014-06-12 16:16:32
Im no greek scholar sister but i did s bit of research on the words we have homilia association which basically means a company of men and ethos habits Which is in that verse a strong version of ethos which means custom .the context itself discusses the ressurection and the failure of some people in the congregation to believe in it hence eat and drink for tomorrow we die and the next verse is an exhortation asking those ones to come back to their senses and stop sinning so we get the idea . Our custom of holding to the christian personality which is holy could be under threat if we hold company with those who dont beleive in the ressurection. Again though it has to be remembered that the company that paul was likely speaking of were those on the inside of the congregation claiming to be christians but denying one of its core doctrines .. hope that helps kev. Just a point a closely related word ethos is used at hebrews 10 v25 dont give up meeting together as some have the custom but then there are many different customs in a christians life .
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-12 16:39:21
I would say that is quite a different meaning. I'm glad we found another little nugget of "truth". I don't believe I have heard anyone mention how the Watchtower mislead us on this particular scripture. It makes you wonder how many other little nuggets are there that we haven't found yet?
That's one great advantage of Bible Hub, you can see the different translations all lined up. The only way I caught this is because it is a short scripture and it was easy to see that none of them said "useful habits" which is what I thought I would find.
I'll have to pay more attention in the future as I don't use the NWT or the RNWT much anymore..
For reading at home, I love the King James Version.
Thank you for your comment about 1 Corinthians 15:33 Meleti.
Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-15 19:34:07
Paragraph 14 was my only comment (the only paragraph that even mentions Jesus despite he being the greater Moses! How tragic!)
Quoting Ezekiel 3:17-19 the writer says, "we recognize that it is our responsibility to 'warn the wicked one to turn from his wicked course so that he may stay alive.'” Then he reminds us, "Of course we do not preach merely to avoid bloodguilt" since "we love our neighbor," like the Samaritan. Are we really like the Samaritan? Are we really "moved with pity to give a witness?" or are we moved by the belief that those we witness to are all under judgment? Obviously judgment, since why else was Ezekiel cited to read?
Also, why did Jesus tell the parable? Was it not in response to a trick question? "Who is my neighbour?" And what did Jesus' parable about helping an injured man have to do with warning the wicked anyway? So my comment was:
"We need to ask ourselves whether we are preaching to others out of judgment or love because, if it is out of judgment, then we are no better than he who asked, 'Who is my neighbour?' knowing very well that he already viewed his religion as the only true one while Samaritans were wicked,"
swReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-16 10:30:25
We often quote those words of God to Ezekiel and then apply them to our preaching work. However, if that is the principle behind our preaching--to free ourselves from bloodguilt--then why is there not a similar warning from Jesus or the apostles?
Ezekiel's preaching had nothing to do with saving his audience from nor condemning them to the second death. We teach as JWs that the people of his day will be resurrected? So where is the bloodguilt Jehovah spoke of? Is it not exclusive to the destruction of that day, since all that death will be undone in the resurrection of the unrighteous? I'm reasoning this out based on the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Therefore, if our preaching is truly like that of Ezekiel, then the only bloodguilt we have to worry about is the temporary death of those who die at Armageddon, because they will all come back in the resurrection. Of course, that is not what we teach, so maybe it would be best if we leave the Ezekiel analogy alone as it doesn't fit.
And none of this "it fits by extension" nonsense please. The second death isn't "Death 2.0". It's an entirely different scenario, and making us critical in that equation as if our failure to preach adequately would put the guilt of condemning mankind to eternal death on our shoulders is just guilt-driven motivation. It is a shameful tactic.Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-06-16 12:08:42
This is a good analysis of our misapplication of that scripture. I see that scripture in a totally different light now.........
Context is important! The “it fits by extension” reasoning is nonsense and I am realizing that our publications and talks are built almost entirely on it. I have been taught from infancy to reason on the scriptures and make application of these scriptures in that way . This is a hard habit to break.
The more and more that you discuss our weekly “theocratic menu” ( WT’s , TMS, BS, SM etc.) it is helping me to think critically ( again) and untangle this web of indoctrination ..oops theocratic education ;) I know I say this often but I am truly eternally grateful for this site.
Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-16 13:10:30
Absolutely Meleti,
Having spent most of my life helping others escape judgment, getting them to resign from their own respective religions, I am now on an empathetic journey of reflection. What I asked others to do, I am now asking myself. Am I brave enough to do the same?
I ran the gauntlet from family and friends to become a JW. But now that I've met the spirit of Christ, am I more ready to obey? I often wonder what emotions churned in Saul when Jesus asked him, "Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?" Not that I was ever like Saul. I didn't even know what a Pharisee was except for those snarly sketches in the magazines in the '60's and never even imagined they could exist among us 'true' Christians, until of course, I began reading the Bible in earnest and saw that we had somehow exempted ourselves from Saul's Pharisaical hypocrisy.
Little wonder that Saul became Paul and wrote so much against those attempting to meld error of his former religion! No wonder when we are told to read 1 Corinthians 1:10, we are to read it with church unity and not with Christ. Had I just let Paul speak to me through those first three chapters to the Corinthians, I might have seen how he actually reversed our own premise! I then remind myself how long it might have taken Paul to see his own ignorance had Jesus not appeared to Saul the Pharisee. Little wonder why we shouldn't get too angry over the ignorance of our own hypocrisy.
So now that I am finished beating the 'false' Christians of Christendom, I must ask myself. "Should I beat my fellow Pharisee today?" Just what good is it to beat the ignorant into submission if Christ has not yet revealed himself to them? What advice would Paul give me today? That depends. Paul was far from unreasonable. Whether we quietly drift away or wear placards to the next Regional Convention while shouting the apostasy message like a madman, we somehow lose something, do we not? Perhaps there is a pattern of history here. Perhaps we are just a little too anxious to extract the straw from our brother's eye while ignoring the rafter (plank-NE) in our own.
Does anyone remember Joni Mitchell's song?
"Oh but now old friends they're acting strange,
They shake their heads, they say I've changed,
Well something's lost, but something's gained,
In living every day;
"I've looked at life from both sides now,
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall,
I really don't know life at all."
swReply by Kian Swee Lim on 2014-06-16 20:32:54
Is the invisible Holy Spirit just an "active force" of God?Watchtower has a current featured article on this at www.jw.org entitled "What is the Holy Spirit?".However,there are a good number of scriptures that say the Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force.Any comments from forum members?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-16 21:03:07
Sounds like a good topic to raise on www.discussthetruth.com
Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-17 11:39:11
The only problem with such a discussion is when we humans attempt to brand what can only be understood in the spiritual world with a Biophysics 101 textbook. It could become an endless argument for those sitting in the philosophy section of the Areopagus.....no? :)
Comment by ¿Wheresenoch? on 2014-06-19 06:14:51
In response 2 your topic Kian, there are several instances in scripture where tangible attributes are possessed by impersonal forces. Gen. 4:10 has blood crying out. Rom. 5:14 has death ruling, & Rom. 7:11 has sin seducing & killing. Not 2 mention the heart being treacherous, desparate & sick. In light of these examples the Holy Spirit can @ times appear alive & personal. Just my take on it. Still an excellent topic 2 explore further.
Comment by Kian Swee Lim on 2014-06-20 20:30:04
Wheresenoch,we're told not to grieve the Holy Spirit.It/He talks,etc.Probably,what you're saying is that unless the Holy Spirit is alive & personal,then it/he cannot be part of a triune God.How many churches do you know of that do not believe in the trinity or triune nature of God?Perhaps the WTBTS got this one right despite possibly not right in many other areas?
Comment by 2014 District Convention: “Sacred Secrets of the Kingdom Progressively Revealed” | Beroean Pickets on 2014-06-26 08:00:58
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