WT Study: Meditate on Jehovah’s Enduring Love

– posted by meleti

[From ws15/08 p. 9 for Sep. 28 - Oct. 4]

A number of years ago while out in the door-to-door ministry I came upon a woman, a staunch Catholic, who was utterly convinced that God had miraculously saved her from dying of breast cancer. There was no way I could have convinced her otherwise, nor did I even attempt to do so.
This is an example of anecdotal evidence. We’ve all heard it. People are convinced of divine intervention because something went their way. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t. Often, there is no way of knowing for sure. Thus, anyone who thinks clearly and critically rejects anecdotal evidence. In reality, it is not evidence at all. It has the probative value of a fairy tale.
This week’s Watchtower opens with several anecdotes intended to “prove” Jehovah’s love for us. Jehovah’s Witnesses will read these accounts and see them as further “proof” that Jehovah is blessing the organization. However, I can assure you that if I were to have read these same accounts to one of my JW brethren prefacing the reading by saying, “Look what I came across in this month’s Catholic Digest,” I would have received a look of derision worthy of Sheldon Cooper.
I am not suggesting that there is no proof of Jehovah’s love. Our Father’s love is enduring. That is beyond dispute. I am also not suggesting that he does not exercise his love as it pleases him and upon whom it pleases him. However, the love he shows on individuals should never be taken as an ipso facto endorsement of any organizational entity.
We should never fall prey to the thinking that we as an organization are doing well, because certain faithful ones in our midst are doing well; that we are blessed by God, because they are blessed by God. The fact is that often men and women of faith do well in spite of us, not because of us.

Appreciate the Privilege of Prayer

In paragraph 10 we encounter an example of JW doublespeak:

“A loving father takes time to listen to his children when they want to talk to him. He wants to know their concerns and anxieties because he cares about what is in their heart. Our heavenly Father, Jehovah, listens to us when we approach him through the precious privilege of prayer.”par. 10 [Boldface added]

The problem here is that for years, the publications have been telling us that Jehovah is not our heavenly Father!

“These with earthly prospects are declared righteous and enjoy peace with God even now, not as sons, but as ‘friends of God,’ as was Abraham.” (w87 3/15 p. 15 par. 17)

“Although Jehovah has declared his anointed ones righteous as sons and the other sheep righteous as friends on the basis of Christ’s ransom sacrifice…” (w12 7/15 p. 28 par. 7)

The Organization wishes to have it both ways. They want the 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world to understand they are not God’s children, while simultaneously holding the contradictory thought that they can still call Jehovah their Father. They would have us believe that he is our Father in some kind of special way. However, the Bible speaks of no “special sense”, no secondary category of fatherhood. Scripturally speaking, God becomes the father of all those who exercise faith in the name of his son Jesus Christ. All such ones can therefore proclaim themselves as God’s children, because Jesus has given them that authority. (John 1:12)
If Jesus has given us such authority, what man or group of men would dare to take it from us?
Paragraph 11 compounds the doublespeak by stating:

“We can approach Jehovah in prayer at any time. He has placed no restrictions on us. He is our Friend who is always ready to give us a hearing ear.” – par. 11

So he goes from Father to friend in one short paragraph.
The Christian Scriptures never refer to Jehovah God as our friend. The only mention of Him as a friend is found at James 2:23 where Abraham is mentioned. No Christian – no child of God – is referred to in the Christian Scriptures as Jehovah’s friend. A man can have many friends, but he only has one true father. As Christians, we become children of God and can rightly and legally refer to him as our Father. The love a father has for a child is different from the love one friend has for another. If Jehovah had wanted us to think of him as our friend rather than our Father, Jesus would surely have said so; the Christian writers would certainly have been inspired to write that down.
Since the Christian Greek Scriptures do not use this term as a designator of a Christian’s relationship with God, why do we so often use it in the publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? The answer is because it helps to shore up the false doctrine that there are two categories of Christian, one that is granted inheritance as sons, and another that is denied that inheritance.
This exclusivity is expressed in paragraph 14:

A few feel Jehovah’s enduring love in a very special way. (John 1:12, 13; 3:5-7) Having been anointed by holy spirit, they have become “God’s children.” (Rom. 8:15, 16) Paul described anointed Christians as having been ‘raised up and seated together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus.’ (Eph. 2:6) [Boldface added]

The vast majority (99.9%) of Jehovah’s Witnesses who read this will immediately understand that they are excluded from the ones Paul describes. But, pray tell, where in all of Scripture does Paul describe – does any Bible writer describe – the other group of Christians? If God’s Children are referred to repeatedly, where then do we find mention of God’s Friends? The plain truth is that there is nothing in all of the Christian Scriptures that describes this special secondary class of Christian.

Disparaging the Love of God

This article is intended to extol God’s great love for us, but ultimately it does the opposite. Our teachings bring reproach by disparaging God’s love.

“For the vast majority of mankind who exercise faith in the ransom, the way is open to be Jehovah’s friends with the prospect of being adopted as children of God and living forever in the promised earthly Paradise. Thus, by means of the ransom, Jehovah shows his love for the world of mankind. (John 3:16) If we hope to live forever on earth and we continue to serve Jehovah faithfully, we can be assured that he will make life pleasant for us in the new world. How fitting it is that we view the ransom as the greatest evidence of God’s enduring love for us!” – par. 15

This paragraph encapsulates the core teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses that all humankind has before it the hope of living forever on a paradise earth. At the end of 1000 years, these ones – if they remain faithful – can attain to perfection and finally become children of God. This is put forward as evidence of God’s love. It is, in fact, quite the opposite.
Let’s say that I knock on your door and tell you that if you put faith in Jesus Christ and obey his commandments, you can live forever on earth in the New World. What happens if you don’t put faith in Jesus Christ and don’t obey his commandments? Obviously, you would not get to live in the New World. If I go to your door to offer you a hope for your salvation and you reject it, then I would naturally not expect you to get the realization of that hope in any case. If that were so, if all are going to get the prize, then why would I even bothering knocking on doors?
Therefore, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that everyone who doesn’t respond to their preaching is going to die for all time at Armageddon.
Does that seem like the action of a loving God? Would a loving God make your eternal salvation dependent on whether or not you accept The Watchtower and Awake! magazine when strangers come to your door? And what about the Muslims and Hindus who have never heard a Jehovah’s Witness before? What about the hundreds of millions of children on earth today who couldn’t read a Watchtower if the wind blew it to their feet?
All of these and more are condemned to die eternally at Armageddon because they didn’t respond to “God’s message of love” as preached by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
God’s love is not at fault. Our teaching is at fault. Jehovah sent his son to make an offer to anyone who would respond; an offer to rule with him in the kingdom of the heavens, therein to serve as both king and priest for the healing of the nations. Those who don’t accept this hope, naturally don’t get to enjoy it. But the hope he offered isn’t a take-it-or-die offer. He was simply inviting us to enjoy a wonderful opportunity. Should we turn it down, then we simply do not get it. What remains?
What remains is the second part of what Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15 – the resurrection of the unrighteous.
The purpose of Jesus’ preaching was not the salvation of mankind at Armageddon. The purpose was to find those who would form an administration by which all mankind throughout the ages could be saved during the Judgment Day lasting 1000 years. That is the true evidence of God’s love and that is truly all-encompassing love. Love that is completely fair and just.
Under his Messianic rule, Jesus will level the playing field for all by freeing resurrected humans from oppression, slavery, physical and mental impairment, and ignorance. During the thousand year reign of Christ, all mankind will have an equal opportunity to know and accept him as their Savior. That is the true extent of God’s love, not that which is painted in The Watchtower magazine in support of a failing doctrine.

Archived Comments

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  • Comment by Anonymous on 2015-09-28 18:25:53

    I have but one question for all readers of this forum who are still part of the WT organization. If you read the words above, including - "God’s love is not at fault. Our teaching is at fault" - and understand them, and appreciate the magnitude of what is at stake for being at fault regarding such a fundamental teaching, then why won't you leave?

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-28 18:55:44

      Hi Anonymous,
      Our rule here is that he who asks the first challenging question must be willing to answer first.
      So I would ask you two related questions:
      1) Just prior to the destruction of Babylon the Great, God's people are told to get out of her if they do not want to share with her in her sins and receive part of her plagues. (Re 18:4) How is it that God's people are still in Babylon the Great right up to the very end?
      2) The wheat is only distinguished from the weeds at the very end, at the harvest. Why hasn't the wheat separated itself from the weeds long before that time?

      • Reply by Chris on 2015-09-28 21:09:07

        We did. Then Rutherford sowed some bad seeds again. 75% got out of her in the 1920's and 1930's. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has become Babylon. Many wheats are coming out. Just like the original church after the death of the apostles. They went into an apostasy. Then after Russell died another apostasy. There are many parallels between what happens with the early church and what happened with the WTS. Here is a discourse by a Bible Student who draws parallels between Babylon and WTS after the death of the apostles and Russell.
        Allen Springer - The Third Babylon - http://adevarprezent.com/mobile/Discources/Miscellaneous%20Discourses%20by%20Speaker/Allen%20Springer/4173%20-%20Allen%20Springer%20-%20The%20Third%20Babylon.mp3

        • Reply by Christian on 2015-09-29 01:37:05

          So, just having listened to the talk - The Third Babylon - it seems clear the Organization has, like all other human organizations drifted away from the Real Truth. This shows up then the fundamental flaw with ALL human societies, so it beggars the question: Where do we go away to? Having been baptized a Witness in the early 60s, I was zealous for 'the truth'. I pioneered I moved from UK to America and continued pioneering. I served at Brooklyn Bethel and afterwards served in a variety of capacities. I think in the 80s about the time Raymond Franz was so harshly dealt with that cracks started to appear in my own previously solid relationship with the arrangement. I stopped serving as an Elder but still essentially supported. Eventually I stopped preaching and attending and for a good many years I no longer felt I was a jw. My wife left me whom I eventually divorced and I remarried an 'unbeliever'. But I was still searching and in frequent prayer about where I should go. The biggest issue I had was the un-Christian practice of shunning. I was persuaded to return by old friends who assured me it was 'so different now'. I still attend, but I now read God's Word every day. I pray with my wife very frequently who shares with me in attending meetings and who rejoices in my calling to a heavenly hope. I might add I have no defined urge to be either a King or a Priest, I don't feel worthy of such great titles, but with all my heart now, I wish to be in the heavens with my Father and my Savior Jesus. Yet at this stage I still maintain a relationship with the local congregation because both my wife and I need some Christian association. We just don't know where else to go from that point of view, yet we both see jw.org as a failed man-made organization however with many good-hearted Christian people within. If any of you dear brothers have any thoughts you might wish to share I would be appreciative.

          • Reply by miken on 2015-09-30 07:14:05

            Christian: initially it is not where to go to but whom to go to, that being our Lord Jesus Christ, John 14:6, Acts 4:12. You need to believe in Christ (John 1:12) which means entrusting your life to him and becoming a child of God not just his friend, Knowing (Greek Ginosko) Christ(John 17:3) means more than knowing about him but also having an intimate personal relationship with him sustained through communicating with him (John 14:14 ("ask ME" in the Greek); 1 Corinthians :2; 2 Corinthians 12:7-10) and worshipping him as well as the Father (Revelation 5:11-14). If you "come" to the Lord Jesus Christ he will give you eternal life now (John 5:24; 8:51) not at the end of his 1000 year reign (John 3:16: 5:39). When you entrust your life to the Lord Jesus Christ you will receive the Holy Spirit and be born of the Spirit which is essential to inheriting the Kingdom of God ( Matthew 25:34; John 3:3-8). Then ask the Lord Jesus to lead you to a free bible believing Christ centred church and get baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). You do not need to be baptised in "association" with any religious organization.

            • Reply by Chris on 2015-09-30 20:45:00

              The millennium is a time of learning for those who have not become Christians. Why do you think there is a trail again at the end of the 1000 years? (Rev 20:3) The bible says that all will be resurrected (John 5:28,29) and that some would be judged for life and some to judgement. The word for judgment has been mistranslated to "damnation". But what happens during judgement? "When your judgements come upon the earth the inhabitants will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9). How can they learn righteousness in the resurrection if they have to learn righteousness now or suffer eternal torment? When Jehovah called Israel what did he promise them? That they would become kings and priests over the earth. Now when he opened it up to the Gentiles he is calling those to be grafted it to become kings and priests. It's didn't become a general call to "turn or burn". What are they being grafted into? Salvation? No. A kingdom of priests and kings. Today is not the day of salvation. God has a plan and everyone is in it. Not turn or burn. Those who will make up the bride class are called overcomers. Because under the reign of sin they overcome. In the millennium the world will learn righteousness and under the perfect condition Satan will be released one more time under human perfection to mislead one more time. (Rev 20:3) That's why in Rev 20-21we find that people are being guided to the waters of life. It is not something that we all have to gain today. Jesus is calling the church class. Not the world of mankind.

              • Reply by katrina on 2015-09-30 23:10:10

                And when things go wrong its an individual thing not an org thing, usually it is unseen circumstances befall us all.
                Like this poor JW doing his field ministry. Won't see this in the WT study.

      • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-29 23:03:44

        Hello Meleti,
        I am always up for challenging questions. However, I am afraid that my answer will mostly amount to, "I don't know".
        1. Revelation 18:4 says, "And I heard another voice out of heaven say: 'Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.'"
        However, it is unclear that this statement is in fact "just prior to the destruction of Babylon the Great" as you put it. As anyone who has attempted to understand Revelation can attest to, the sequencing of events that are described in this book are not entirely linear, as is true of much of the Bible. I am not prepared to say whether God's people actually leave just before the end of Babylon the Great, or whether a significant amount of time elapses between these two events. I am not aware of any passage in Revelation or elsewhere that could be pointed to that we could use to gauge the relative amount of time that is involved.
        I have no way of knowing (or proving) that "God's people are still in Babylon the Great right up to the very end". Perhaps you or others could provide this proof, but I suspect that it would involve a matter of human interpretation, which is difficult under normal circumstances, and twice as much so when it involves Revelation. I must ask a related question, namely, has Bablyon the Great fallen already (and if so, when did this happen) or is it falling now, or is its fall something that will happen in the future? When the real Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians, it was not a vague, nebulous, ambiguous event that defied understanding. The armies invaded and Babylon was overthrown and fell. Should we believe that Babylon the Great's fall would be different, and not be decisive in a similar way? I suspect it would have a definitive end, and not gradually fade away. However, I don't really know, and asking rhetorical questions like these is not the same as having answers to them.
        2 (a). The remarks about the wheat and weeds are similar. We must by mindful that the passage in Matthew 13 regarding the wheat and weeds is clearly described as an "illustration". Just like the parable about the faithful and discrete slave, we must be careful how we characterize illustrations. Is this a parable or a prophecy? I am not completely certain.
        2 (b). You asked, "Why hasn’t the wheat separated itself from the weeds long before that time?" Strictly speaking, the verse says that "The Son of man will send forth his angels" to separate these two groups - not that they would separate themselves. But that's the question isn't it? Which way does it happen?
        I assume that you are asking these questions in order to suggest that there is a rationale, perhaps even a 'divinely sanctioned' rationale, for everyone staying in Babylon the Great until the angels of Christ do their separating work. If that were true, then there would seem to be no reason not be part of any religion whatsoever until the very last minute, because the angels are coming. If that were true, there seems to be no real incentive or urgency to pursue true worship, since the angels will come at the last minute to save the day.
        I find that hard to accept. To me, it flies in the face of everything I ever understood about the Bible, and contrary to everything I ever thought God expected of us - that is, He expects more of us than that, more than the bare minimum of effort.
        Perhaps the actions of the angels are simply a "rescue effort" to get the "last stragglers" out before the end, but not that such is the preferred situation. We could liken this to the police trying to rescue stragglers from an area forecast to face a tornado or hurricane. As commendable as rescue efforts are, would it not be the course of wisdom to get out of the danger area as soon as it was clear that our lives are at risk? With respect to the rhetorical question I originally posed, would it not be the course of wisdom to get out of a religion that you may love dearly, but that you know in your heart is part of Babylon the Great?
        I can't believe that we should stay in Babylon the Great until the very last minute, like a bunch of lazy, indecisive, good-for-nothing procrastinators. We ought to be leaving it at the FIRST minute, not the LAST.
        This is, in fact, the crux of this argument. Are people suppose to voluntarily separate themselves, or do they passively wait for divine intervention?
        If we are waiting for the angels to act as our substitute conscience and motivation, or if we are willing to succumb to fear of man, then the answer is to take the easy way out and wait until the last minute. If our consciences are not pacified with this, we will expect more from ourselves than that. We can be certain that God expects more from us than that.
        At least, that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-30 08:51:32

          Thank you for answering those questions, and your answer, "I don't know", mirrors mine. I too can see the possibility that there will be faithful Christians serving alongside those not chosen for the heavenly reward right up to the end. It brings to mind this scripture:
          “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned.” (Mt 24:40, 41)
          The men are working in the same field, the women are grinding at the same hand mill. Yet one is taken and one is left. This happens when Jesus makes his appearance.
          This makes us wonder just what is Babylon the Great. I don't believe its only identifying mark is the teaching of falsehood. Jesus said that what identifies us is love. So when we leave a religion, like Jehovah's Witnesses, where do we go? We are still supposed to associate with our brothers and sisters according to Hebrews 10:24, 25. If we find a group where they teach truth, but that group lacks love, are we better off? If the group we associate with is judgmental, high-minded, and disdaining of others, have we really found "the Way"?
          I do get it that when one finally realizes the extent of deception, they go through a series of phases, one being anger. I went through that myself. Yes, we can be angry, but we must not sin. (Ps 4:4) We don't want to get to the point of judging another, even to calling him a "fool". (Mt 5:22) We might lose out on life ourselves if we give in to that.
          (I think very soon there are going to be a great many angry Witnesses.)
          In answer to your question, I don't see an easy, one-size-fits-all answer. At least, not at that time. The Christians in Jerusalem in 60 C.E. could have left at any time and they would have had an easier time of it than those who waited until the last minute. Yet, Jesus blessed them all. There will be a cut-off date, a time after which it will be too late. But until such time arrives, the decision to leave or not and how much association to maintain, rests with each one. We should not judge others in this regard.

          • Reply by Menrov on 2015-10-01 02:29:22

            Just to think a little bit out of the scriptural box :-)
            What if Revelations was written before Jerusalem was destroyed and what if Babylon the Great actually meant Jerusalem, a place where also a lot of false religion took place as well as politics?
            In line with the counsel to flee the city and go to the mountains, this could mean the same: flee BG or suffer what will happen.
            Just a thought....

          • Reply by Skye on 2015-10-03 19:18:57

            meleti, I'm still trying to work out the point you make at Matthew 24:40,41?

    • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-28 21:49:21

      It's called family. Some of us have young children, and they would not understand the whole family shunning thing. It's difficult being a born in. Like the Royal Commision brought out, we are truly a captive organisation. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

      • Reply by Skye on 2015-09-30 04:56:39

        For a Christian, there is no guarantee that we will not lose our children, or other family members (Matthew 10:34-37). If we are going to lose our children, then better to lose them for the right reasons. As parents, it is our responsibility to teach our children God's Word. Do we really want the Society to teach our children, filling their minds with corrupt and false teachings, denying them an education and a normal life. We can only teach our children to be strong, if we are strong.
        Yes, the shunning is hard, and for some it can mean isolation and loneliness for a time.
        Matthew 10:38 "Whoever who does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me." It is not when you become a JW that you take up your cross and follow Christ - it is when you leave.

        • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-30 05:28:27

          You are making an assumption there, that leaving equates to following Christ. Each one bears his own load, and being a true Christian is shown by our works. You do not know my personal situation, and I will not tell it to you. But it might change your perspective. Neither do I know yours, nor would I judge you for it. I find Jesus at John 3:18-21 to be comforting.

          • Reply by Skye on 2015-09-30 12:14:47

            Anonymous, You say "You are making an assumption there, that leaving equates to following Christ."
            Many have decided to leave WT because they believe that in order to follow Christ that was the right thing for them to do. On the other hand there are those who for reasons known to themselves, they have decided to stay. Each of us has the right to make that choice, and I make no judgements - I leave that to Jesus Christ.
            Whatever and whenever you decide, I wish you well. I have no argument with you, and I am glad you find comfort from John 3:18-21.

    • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-28 22:58:56

      Why do people stay in a bad marriage or abusive relationship? It is so easy to just leave right? Everyone's life circumstances are different

  • Comment by Chris on 2015-09-28 21:01:53

    The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society under Russell taught that God is only calling the bride class or the 144,000. He is not calling the world of mankind. He is only calling those that he told Abraham would be his seed and through them "all the nations of the earth will be blessed". That's what the millennium is for but Rutherford decided to turn it into a fear of Armageddon and second death. Russell taught that everyone would have a chance on the millennium and that God is calling the bride class. We are to run the race for the mark of the prize of the high calling. The New World Translation at John chapter 5 verses 28 and 29 have changed the word "graves" to Memorial tombs. They did this so that they can say that only those in God's memory will be resurrected. They have changed the word and then interpreted it to their own bias. God is calling the bride. Just like with Israel he didn't deal with the world of mankind. Only them. Jesus spoke so that many wouldn't understand. Well if that were true then Jesus is purposefully trying not to save people. But that's not true. He's only calling his sheep. The rest will learn in the millennium. That's why those who are faithful now are called over comers. The rest will learn later.

  • Comment by Alien Resident on 2015-09-29 01:46:06

    Thanks Meleti highlighting those points, I could never understand being gods friend, his dad(father) to anointed, and one day in 1000 yr plus, when your faithful at the final test will have that privilege also, but for now, no his not father in the fullest sense like the anointed, just doesn't warm you up to God ,....question posed by anon, so why do we stick around, keep attending meetings, some don't and some do, I wish not to speak for anyone else and please don't be offended in what I write, but for me, simple we love Jehovah and our fellow man!!!
    Let me explain-Those who are taught by Jehovah understand why he has allowed present conditions, and they are not stumbled by it! Rather, they have reason to be encouraged, as Jesus said: "But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near." (Luke 21:28)
    How do we suppose the scripture will be fulfilled where Jehovah foretold that "you people will again certainly see the distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him?" (Mal. 3:17,18) Permitting lies to be taught in His name, and that within his own temple, serves God's purpose in separating the righteous ones from the wicked ones—the righteous who "obey God as ruler rather than men," from the wicked who are deceived by the foretold "man of lawlessness" and the many false prophets who have appeared on the scene. (Acts 5:29; 20:29,30; 2 Thess. 2:3,4, 9-12) Only by keeping ourselves in God's love will we be able to discern the difference between the things that are from God and the things of this world. (John 8:43-47; 2 Cor. 13:5; Jude 21) Jesus said that everyone who does not belong within God's kingdom will at God's appointed time be removed:please read (Matt. 13:39-43, 47-50;
    The Scriptures foretold that Jehovah would cleanse his people prior to his coming day at Armageddon, and we are now witnessing that! The “distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one” is becoming evident. Jesus said: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” And the prophet Daniel also foretold: “Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.” Therefore, the refined members of the "great crowd" of Revelation are seen rendering sacred service within God's temple dressed in "white robes." (Dan. 12:10; Matt. 15:43; 24:11-13; James 1:2-4; Rev. 7:13) There are those who by being obedient to God, as hard as it is, to continue going to the meetings, they are then able, using Gods word to tell us the truth, and to encourage others (Phil. 3:18,19)
    But please correct me if these scriptural references are misapplied in any way.

    • Reply by Menrov on 2015-09-29 10:39:58

      Hi AR, you said: There are those who by being obedient to God, as hard as it is, to continue going to the meetings, they are then able, using Gods word to tell us the truth, and to encourage others (Phil. 3:18,19)
      I do not see that being obedient to God is expressed by continuing going to the meetings (which ones? where?) and are those allow to speak freely and accurately during the meeting you meetings or are the obliged to speak the message of the ones who organized these meetings ??
      This comment more to trigger thoughts rather then criticizing. I respect anyone's choice, regardless if I agree with it. In the end, we all will be judged by Jesus.
      Take care.

      • Reply by Alien Resident on 2015-09-29 16:52:53

        Yes Menrov, thanks for your thought, each to their own, there's no worries with me, yes John also cautions everyone not to "believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." (1 John 4:1) We can be absolutely certain that no "inspired expression of error" originates with God, or are taught by his holy spirit, although we are told that Jehovah permits it if that is what his people want. (2 Thess. 2:11,12; Rom. 1:18, 28-32)
        Paul’s counsel gets to the heart of the issue today: “I give you a command in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, the One who will judge the living and the dead, and by his coming and his kingdom: Preach the Good News. Be ready at all times, and tell people what they need to do. Tell them when they are wrong. Encourage them with great patience and careful teaching, because the time will come when people will not listen to the true teaching but will find many more teachers who please them by saying the things they want to hear. They will stop listening to the truth and will begin to follow false stories. But you should control yourself at all times, accept troubles, do the work of telling the Good News, and complete all the duties of a servant of God.” (2 Tim. 4:1-5, NCV; 2 Thess. 2:9-12)
        Pauls point is the time has come where the truth no longer appeals to many of God's people! They would like to make Jehovah the sort of God they want him to be; and the foretold abundance of false prophets accommodates them. (Ezek. 14:9,10; 2 Thess. 2:11,12) But that should not confuse Jehovah's true worshippers. Jesus warned about this-(Matt. 7:15,16) so Where can you speak your thoughts?i think sites like this one allows us to keep seeking truths, and by application in our lives, were better for it. And regardless of which hall were sitting in, if we're there at all, it's not the building that differentiates us, it's us.
        But i appreciate what your saying, it's a challenge for sure. Trust God , Patience and time - things will eventually sort itself out by Christ.

  • Comment by Menrov on 2015-09-29 10:41:21

    very sorry for the typos. I do not know how to correct a post once accepted.

  • Comment by Buster on 2015-09-30 21:09:59

    What is true pure love, well we know it comes from our Almighty God and heavenly Father Yahweh/Jehovah, and his son and Our Lord and King Jesus, so what is the suppose love that the Organization is well just take a look at the GB Morris Video and tell me, if that is true Love.
    Look we all know that the Organization has more Holes in it then a boat full of holes ( very bad pun), but the thing is that almost every week goes by on Saturday/or Sunday talk where we get that all the other religions are wrong and evil, and they always say this is the True Religion..........Ok, sure if you say so, but is that loving, do we have it all down pat, no no no we don't, we got some things right, and so so so many things wrong, but I keep going to the meetings, I barely read any magazines, I don't got time for that, I read the bible daily and I own more then my share of bibles, and I always go back to the Old school work of Russell and those times, cause it makes me have a good laugh, Again I keep going to the meeting for now, I aint gonna go forever, but I don't judge or tell people that they should not go or do go, that is there Free will right to do what they want, but I aint gonna play the fool either, when people come up to me and tell me of This Generation thing is Right, or The newest morning worship is correct, I will kindly give them my opinion and it ain't always in tune with what the Organization thinks...........I don't say OBEY ME OR ELSE, I will leave it to the Seven Samurai's up there in New York (yeah that is a great film) .
    oh yeah it seems almost funny too we had our CO a few weeks ago and he was talking about how the election fever is all up in America's mind and all, and how sad it is, and yet I know many brothers and sisters cant wait for the next week or so when the annual meeting is going down in new York, they cant wait, and some almost seem giddy, wow wow, well I guess we all know NEW LIGHT might appear and we should all hang on there every word that the Governing Body ( Guardians of Doctrines) , cause they are the Truth and the light and the way.....Woops that is Jesus, John 14:6, yup I thought it was the governing body ........Silly me.
    love to all

    • Reply by JimmyG on 2015-10-01 00:27:15

      Ah , the AGM.
      Ministry School and Service Meeting gone! Replaced with the very 'Christendom' sounding 'Our christian life and ministry'. Different title, same hogwash.
      Reduced volume of mags- one mag per month, WT one month, Awake the following month and so on.
      More Bethel closures and some remaining Bethels will have some depts shut down.
      Major layoffs of Bethelites, told to go pioneering. But not Special pioneering as that costs them money
      Many if not all building projects put on hold. Seems finishing the Warwick compound is no 1 priority just in case the money runs out. But got to have an adjustable lake, where with the touch of a button, the lake's depth is lowered. Kick out long serving Bethelites, but gotta have that button.
      Yeh, God is really blessing this organisation

  • Comment by Menrov on 2015-10-01 11:02:19

    Ok, I set myself to read the article. The first 2 paragraphs do not say anything that stands out as proof of Gods enduring love. All described is what all people experience, struggle with but in general all continue and in one way or another are successful in what they do..
    Same for pars 4 and 5. Actually nothing new, very superficial. One point. It refers to Eph. 5:1, which says we can imitate God like AS BELOVED CHILDREN...
    Par 7 is rather strange to read from people who have in various cases mispresented the words and verses in the scriptures.
    Par 9 ends with: This Bible account provides a reminder that despite our human imperfection, Jehovah will have enduring love for us if we wholeheartedly seek to please him""
    Like God is interested in our imperfection. As far as I can see, it is the WT that keeps reminding its readers about their state.of imperfection. Further, the bible teaches that God loved US first. Not the other way around. Not as a result of seeking Him.
    Par. 10-12: not sure what to say here. I see that praying is one element of our worship but I lack to see it presented in the bible as a PRIVILEGE. Was it also then a privilege to Jesus to pray? Do I consider talking to my father (if he would still be alive) a privilege?
    Par 13 refers to 1 John 4:9. Funny as the entire chapter is direct to those who are considered children of God: 1 John 4:4: You are from God, little children, and have conquered them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
    Not sure how you read it but par 15 is actually talking about Mankind and not specifically about the R&F....
    Overall (also remaining pars.) the examples of Gods love are valid for all mankind (nature, prayer, bible, ransom). There was nothing in the article that could be used as proof that JW's, as presumably Gods people, do receive special love, special things that others, non-JW's do not receive.

  • Comment by Father jack on 2015-10-02 15:41:43

    Just thinking about this idea of using individual experiences to give an impression that god is blessing an organisation . That it just doesnt hold water the fact is that the scriptures show that a christian may very well under go some really unpleasant experiences we are called to a life just like the pattern of christ . We fill up the sufferings of the christ paul said . Often the vey opposite is true its when we suffer for righteousness then we may have gods approval . Thats as an individual i dont think god blesses congregations

  • Comment by Father jack on 2015-10-02 16:03:38

    Also the one about leaving the organisation to stay or go is the choice of the individual concerned i think for who are we to sit and judge the servant of another . I dont think god recognises any so called religion any way apart from those in his son . I think what really matters is that we strive to put on the christs personality and be like him . We can do this by gaining accurate knowledge of the scriptures and with the help of holy spirit . Thats probably something thats available to all professed christians . Yes its sincerely following the christ that matters and his life is found in the bible . However if we find that a particular denomination is forcing us to lose our christian personality then its time to think again . Personally i think im better off out .

  • Comment by Brenda Evans on 2015-10-04 18:52:09

    Hello everyone
    It is lovely to really think about, really chew, on the work and activity of Jehovah. When you think about an act, there are so many facets to it. There is not only the activity itself, but the care and thought, how it was done and the care there, the reasoning, and that Jehovah has done this, in a way that is best, in a way that brings results that please, in a way of love.
    Is there any way we can go some way to imitate Him and follow His teaching and His example? All we have to do is make one or two life changes.
    Jehovah lovingly said, “For I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you, ‘Do not be afraid. I myself will help you.’ With such love we can feel the love of Jehovah and we can know what He feels for us, how He thinks about us. He knows that we have the need to love and be loved, without love, we can become little to nothing. It is good to be loved, and it is good to love.
    I just wanted to share some of the thoughts I had when doing the study.
    I got wondering, as I sometimes do, about those who may not, for example, be able to read, or maybe simply so shrouded in so-called doctrines, what happens to these during the days of judgement. I cannot believe that Jehovah will overlook people simply because they didn't study. And this is where His Love for mankind is so generous again - with the provision of the 1000 years, and the teaching that will happen during that time, without any influences from anywhere else to distract let alone mislead, isn't it such an act of love that He has given this opportunity to people to get to know about Him, to learn about Him, to learn to have a relationship with Him, to really appreciate Him and most of all, to love Him. And He does this with the provision of Jesus. He is saving us again.
    Isn't He just wonderful. You get lost for words to describe how much you love Jehovah, and how grateful we are to Him.

    • Reply by Skye on 2015-10-05 06:43:55

      Hi Brenda, Your point about love, made me think of Galatians 5:22-26 where love is described as a spiritual fruit - the love of God is produced in us by the work His spirit.
      We know there is to be a second resurrection after the 1000 years, but scripture tells us that there will be people living on the earth during the millennium, who under the care and rulership of Jesus Christ and the saints/elect will have the opportunity that you describe in your comment.
      Isaiah 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

  • Comment by Jacqueline Fowler on 2015-10-17 11:16:52

    I really agree with this understanding of the offer held out by Jesus now. I am from the Bible students and Christopher posted your link on the Facebook page friends of Jehovah witnesses.
    He has been telling us about you. I was a witness for 62 years myself and came to many of the conclusions you have. I just walked away. I will take today to cover your site and read more. Thank you. Jacqueline

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-10-17 12:20:42

      Thank you Jacqueline and welcome. I do appreciate Chris' support.

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