WT Study: “Stand Firm in the Faith”

Comment by Buster on 2015-11-08 18:45:29

I raise my hand. My answer Obey whatever the Organization says , also listen to the Guardians of Doctrines aka Governing Body . That is my answer for the whole article,. Do I get a Gold Star?? Awesome
Oh yeah that is what The Organization wants to hear !!
;)

• Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-08 22:54:30

  Actually, according to Stephen Lett you get the gold star if you know that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. Anyone seen the spoof picture of David Splanes chart with Jesus pointing to it and his disciples looking on in bewilderment. Now thats worth a gold star!

  • Reply by Buster on 2015-11-09 09:03:42

    Well said my friend, well said, Gold stars for all. We all know 587.... I mean 607 is correct..... :)

  • Reply by 1984 on 2015-11-09 16:49:18

    Oh I would so love to see that. Any chance you could post a link?

    • Reply by Buster on 2015-11-09 17:45:40

      1984 my friend I believe Mr.Lett says that on the Third video at the Annuel Meeting this year, when he starts to talk about the Antitype of Babylon and us today. It is the beginning of his part.

    • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2015-11-10 14:47:48

      If you put into Google the following
      Even the Apostles didn't understand Splane's explanation of "This Generation"
      And click the Reddit link that should come top of the results, then click the topic title, it will take you to the picture.
      I'm not posting the link because I think it's not allowed; also I'm not a fan of the Reddit site that has the discussion, but I do think the picture is hilarious, especially the eloquent body language of the apostle Peter.

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-10 15:22:26

        Thank you for not posting the link, Martha. I agree with you that the image has relevance however. Would Jesus need a chart to explain his reference to "this generation"? How silly we have become.
        

        • Reply by Buster on 2015-11-10 18:46:32

          I wondered if Jesus mentioned Exodus 1:6 , cause we all know that is the Scripture that Answers what a Generation means...me think Not

        • Reply by 1984 on 2015-11-10 21:17:04

          Thanks Meleti, MarthaMartha, Buster and anonymous. That's made my day! It really puts things into perspective. I have said to my wife many times that Jesus knew exactly what he was talking about when he uttered those words at Matt 24:34. If he was really running the show the Watchtower wouldn't have made such a pigs breakfast of those simple words for the last 100+ years! I think this picture sums that up nicely. Thanks again!

          • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2015-11-11 04:52:01

            A pig's breakfast. :) Very apt!
            I occasionally imagine the GB meetings over the decades as they realised the last attempt wasn't working out, and the desperate thought processes they must go through to find another explanation that will fill their criteria, ie; keep the masses in a state of high expectation, keep them dependent on the organisation, keep the unassailable golden calf of 1914 intact......
            I have a chuckle at the thought...... But then when I remember the extent of the damage they have done over the decades by ignoring Jesus' words " it does not belong to you", I feel sad, and angry. :(

            • Reply by 1984 on 2015-11-12 01:20:27

              Yes, I agree. I think the Generation teaching is definitive proof that these men are truly delusional. rather than accept that they got it wrong, and all the implications of that (like 1914 is wrong also, and they are not who they think they are - the FDS) they just keep finding new ways to flog a dead horse and bolster their authority and control. It's very sad, and has severely impacted many lives to their detriment.

        • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-10 23:48:29

          They should at least get an A+ for effort on the generation teaching. Could you have come up with it? Would you have even bothered to try and defend it? Round of applause I say, for sticking to their guns. It's just ridiculous though.

        • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-11 15:11:16

          This image is in bad taste. Even disrespectful.
          Disrespectful to Christ.

          • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-11 15:29:36

            Either this is what Jesus meant about this generation or it wasn't. If it is what he meant, as the GB say, then the picture is true and accurate. If it is not what Jesus meant, then any disrespect to him would come from the teaching itself and it's constant need for revision.

            • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-11 15:43:47

              Exactly, and that was the point: To show how this abomination of a teaching brings reproach on the pure teaching of the Lord. It shows pictographically what the Governing Body is expressing through their teaching.

              • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-11 23:14:46

                Here is the thing...Peter would not have drawn a caricature of his Lord supporting a false teaching promoted by the Pharisees in order to make a point.
                Peter was too close to his Lord, he loved him too much, he felt his Lord's sacrifice too much to USE his Lord in such a way.
                All the anointed feel this way.

            • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-11 17:59:36

              Do you believe this is what Jesus meant?
              Or is this just using Christ to mock the GB?
              If a LINK to an exjw site is objectionable how is it their FODDER is not?

              • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2015-11-11 18:41:17

                "Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement."
                This picture is pure satire.
                There is no disrespect meant to our Lord Jesus.
                Jesus Christ himself used visually humorous images to make a point. ( camels trotting through a needle's eye)
                It is unthinkable that Jesus would teach this. It's merely using humour and photoshop trickery to express the ridiculous idea that making charts gives any credulity to a preposterous stretch of imagination.
                We all have a different sense of humour. We don't all see things the same way.
                There is no insult intended.
                As for the link..... Creating links from one website from another can lead to problems, I believe. I prefer to leave the technical expertise to Meleti and co who know how not to crash the site. ;)
                As for fodder from a website I personally dislike...... Sometimes one can find valuable things in a rubbish dump. Doesn't mean I have to drag the dirt home too.
                I liked the simple statement that 1984 made. Jesus knew exactly what
                he meant when he said the words. Only humans manage to make a pig's ear of it.
                That statement in itself is humorous and apt.
                The picture, to me, is a visual expression of the idea.
                By the way,
                Thanks Meleti and co, for this forum to freely discuss, express, mull over, and absorb each other's ideas. I appreciate it very much. The medium of the written word can sometimes be misinterpreted, but I personally love the written word and the opportunity to re-read and meditate, and compose replies when moved to do so.
                It must be time consuming and wearing at times to moderate and write the articles, but it's much appreciated. Thank you.

                • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-12 08:31:33

                  And thank you MarthaMartha for your support, and for this eloquent defense. I might add that when Jesus told his disciples not to through pearls before swine, he wasn't being insulting, but accurately depicting the reality of the situation they were going to face with the Jewish Leaders.

                • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-12 14:47:00

                  A picture really does speak a thousand words sometimes. One can listen to a half hour of pure spin on the generation teaching and maybe start to believe it. A quick look at this picture makes the truth of it all really apparent, to even the most unlearned person. Nice comment MarthaMartha

                • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-13 11:25:18

                  MarthaMartha, just as I would object to someone drawing a pic of my fleshly father holding a placard saying something HE disagreed with, so too I object doing the same to the Son of God.
                  Which comes first, the fight with Watchtower, or our love of Christ? If exjw anti-Watchtower humor is using Christ, Christ and our love for him must come first.
                  He must come first even in the little things.

                  • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-13 16:20:58

                    Are you still an active JW, or an ex JW? Just curious

                    • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-13 22:15:58

                      I am neither.
                      I am a disciple of Jesus Christ who believes the Watchtower is following in the footsteps of first century Jewish leaders who, while claiming to worship God, were actually putting themselves in His place.

                      • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-14 01:25:07

                        Ok, so you've never been a baptised JW. Thanks for your honesty

                        • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-14 10:42:06

                          I did not say I was never a baptized JW.
                          I said, I am neither JW nor exJW meaning I do not self-identify with either identification.
                          Those terms are pejorative and define divisions among brothers; as shia and sunni are divisions among Muslims.
                          We are all brothers no matter the "camp" we may reside in. ExJW and JW are brothers estranged by pharisaical leaders who did not (and still do not) do as they taught, hypocrites.
                          The hearts and minds of many in the Organization are being ruined. Ruined by the continuous saturation of material intellectually watered down and made unfit for disciples of Christ. They are being fed junk food, scraps, nothing more.
                          Beware the Christian religious leader who, being unable to think and write intelligently, chooses to entertain. Satisfying the senses with pretty images, stories, and simplistic teaching. All the while claiming to be Christ's Slave. The Master, Christ, NEVER leaves his slave lacking in either spiritual food or brotherly love. By their fruits...he said...by their fruits we will know them.
                          They are a false slave, pretenders, not anointed, not brothers of Christ.

Comment by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-08 21:23:17

Q.3: No, there is no scriptural basis for dedication as part of baptism.
Consider this excerpt from Perimeno's web site: http://perimeno.ca/Dedication.htm
I invite you to follow the link and read the complete article.
" 1. The nation of Israel was not dedicated to God, but rather was in a covenant with him. Those two are not the same; the terms are not interchangeable.
2. Dedication has nothing to do with having one's prayers heard by God. Did Cornelius dedicate himself to God in order for his prayers to be heard?
3. It is not due to any "dedication" to God on our part that we inherit everlasting life. By teaching this, we actually deny the ransom, although paying lip service to it.
4. We have robbed Jehovah by emphasizing OUR love for him, rather than HIS love for us.
5. Because of our doctrine of Dedication we have made God's word invalid in that we are able to judge our brothers' and sisters' spirituality, compare our activity against others, and even have given "scriptural grounds" for marriage partners to separate. These are all things the Scriptures tell us not to do. (Matthew 7:1-2; Romans 14:4, 10, 13; 2 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 6:4; 1 Corinthians 7:10-11)
6. Baptism is not about any dedication vow. "
We must also face the fact that subsequent to the 1985 revision of the baptism questions, persons who undergo baptism reciting question 2, "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?" have "dedicated" themselves with divided loyalties, since part of their dedication is to God and part is to an organization of men. This is comparable to saying marriage vows to your spouse and to your employer. Such a thing would not be considered a valid marriage and would not be legally binding. It is in effect an unenforceable contract. A case could be made that persons undergoing such baptisms are not Jehovah's Witnesses at all, because their baptism is invalid.

• Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-09 12:58:37

  ” 1. The nation of Israel was not dedicated to God, but rather was in a covenant with him. Those two are not the same; the terms are not interchangeable.
  nâzar (H5144)
  BDB Definition:
  1) to dedicate, consecrate, separate
  1a) (Niphal) to dedicate oneself, devote oneself
  1b) (Hiphil) to keep sacredly separate
  2) (Hiphil) to be a Nazarite, live as a Nazarite
  (Brenton) Ezekiel 14:7, For any man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, who shall separate (H5144) himself from me, and conceive his imaginations in his heart, and set before his face the punishment of his iniquity, and come to the prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him, according to the things wherein he is entangled.
  (YLT) Hosea 9:10, As grapes in a wilderness I found Israel, As the first-fruit in a fig-tree, at its beginning, I have seen your fathers, They--they have gone in to Baal-Peor, And are separated (H5144) to a shameful thing, And are become abominable like their love.
  In Jehovah's eyes the nation of Israel was separated, consecrated, dedicated to Him. The covenants BOUND them to Jehovah God. He freed them from the house of slaves, He purchased their firstborn, He EXPECTED devotion, separateness to Him alone. They were NEVER to separate themselves, consecrate themselves or dedicate themselves to any other god ONLY Jehovah God. Yes, the nation of Israel and individual Jews themselves were dedicated from among the nations as God's People, His Only people, the only national group on earth who had a close and personal relationship with the One God! The only nation on earth who knew He Causes to Become, receiving both blessing and severe correction from their God.
  _________
  I visited Perimeno's site years ago and thought he was providing a worthwhile service to exiting JWs. I did not, though, appreciate his article on a woman's place- submission.
  Jesus set Christian women free to speak, engage, question, and disagree in personal conversation even with him.
  We are free to follow Christ wherever he goes, free to speak as God directs to whomever HE directs. Including our husbands, fathers, brothers and brothers in the Organization.

Comment by Deborah on 2015-11-08 21:55:24

Par. 3 (excerpt): “Similarly, when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah and got baptized, we did so because of our faith. Jesus called us to be his followers, to walk in his footsteps.”
Q. 3: Is there any scriptural basis for the premise that we have dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as part of the baptismal process?
________________________
No. Though the Jews as a nation were God's dedicated and chosen people, meaning that Christ's early disciples were already dedicated to Jehovah, there is no record of gentile believers becoming dedicated to Jehovah before baptism.
Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, we became his friends, something we could never have done in our own power.”
Q. 4: What, if any, is the Scriptural basis for believing that faith moves us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah with a view to becoming his friends?
__________________________
A disciple of Christ has the hope of becoming a son of God, and a "friend" of Jesus- "You are my friends..."
Par. 5 (excerpt): “More than that, because of our faith, we will receive a gift no human could ever obtain by his own efforts—everlasting life.—John 3:16”
Q. 5: What type of everlasting life is John 3:16 referring to? Is there any scriptural basis for applying this to the type of everlasting life the article is referring to?
___________________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Letting Jesus speak for himself:
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Rev 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Par. 6 – “The wind and waves surrounding Peter as he walked on the water might be compared to the trials and temptations we face in our life of dedication to God.”
Q. 6: Since the Bible does not refer to “Christian dedication to God”, why do you think this phrase is used so often in the publications?
______________________________
It is their belief, a belief which is many times sadly manipulated to hide the brutal truth- that they are actually not dedicated to God himself but to a nebulous entity they call the "Organization."
Par. 11 – “Do I chafe at Scriptural counsel? Instead of looking for a way to benefit from the counsel, we might be focusing on some defect in the counsel or in the counselor. (Prov. 19:20) We might thus miss an opportunity to bring our thinking into line with God’s.”
Q. 11: While the idea of humbly accepting Scriptural counsel is sound, what is really implied by this statement in your experience?
________________________________
When scriptures are used to support the unbiblical and harsh teachings of men God's word is then being used to force submission to MEN. Unholy is the word to describe that.
Par. 12 – “Likewise, if we constantly grumble about those whom God is using to lead his people, is this not an indication that our faith in God has weakened?”
Q. 12: As it applies to the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, is there a flaw in this reasoning? What would be the Scriptural course of action when we feel that there is cause for complaint against those taking the lead in the Organization?
The scriptural course of action would be to speak directly to the leadership as Jesus himself did (something many have attempted online, in letters, and some even in person) while recognizing that if they do not listen to the Son of God neither will they listen to us. The religious leaders of Jesus' day wanted him to keep quiet as well...something to think about.
Par. 15 – ”Just as Peter refocused on Jesus, we too must “look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus.” (Read Hebrews 12:2, 3) Of course, we cannot literally see Jesus as Peter did. Instead, we “look intently” at Jesus by examining his teachings and actions and then following these closely. Consider some steps we can take based on the model Jesus set. If we put these into practice, we will receive the help we need to make our faith firm.”
Q. 15: Examining the context of this Scripture (Read Hebrews 12:1-8), who is the writer referring to? Could “Jehovah’s friends”—but not his sons—be included in its application? If we are to ‘follow closely’ the footsteps of Jesus who despised shame for the joy set before him, what joy does the Watchtower set before us to give us cause to endure our torture stake?
_______________________________
Abraham endured, Moses endured, Jeremiah endured. They endured because God helped them to endure. If we endure anything it is not with our own strength or in EXPECTING A GUARANTEED HEAVENLY LIFE. There are no guarantees to heavenly life, only hope and that hope is in life itself wherever it may be and the resurrection. Most Christians who have died in the last 2000 years will awake to a life on earth and they will be very HAPPY with that life.
Par. 16 – “To illustrate, you might increase your conviction that the end of this system of things really is near by studying in detail the Scriptural proof that we live in the last days.”
Q. 16: What Scriptural proof is there that we live in the last days? Does this proof coincide with what the Organization is teaching about the last days?
___________________________________
Yes, we are living in the last days:
Mat 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
Mat 25:6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'
Mat 25:7 "Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
Mat 25:9 "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.'
Par. 19 – “So when choosing your friends, look for people who show their faith by their obedience to Jesus. And remember that one sign of a good friendship is open communication, even when this calls for giving or accepting counsel.”
Q. 19: Based on this counsel, are all Jehovah’s Witnesses showing their faith? On what basis can we find good friendship among Jehovah’s Witnesses and which ones should we be cautious with?
_____________________________
I will not judge the brothers and sisters hearts. Many are following Christ in ways unseen to us but seen by God. We can find good friends among Jehovah's Witnesses by keeping in mind they are sheep, Christ's sheep who must be loved and treated as we would want to be treated with respect both for their person and their beliefs.
No Jehovah's Witness will lose out on life merely because they were one of Jehovah's Witnesses. No Jehovah's Witness who is called by God will refrain from partaking merely because of his religion. God is able to strengthen them and they WILL partake if called. So truly, we trust in God- say what we believe must be said, should be said, as Jesus did, and not be overly anxious or worried that 8 million people are, in our view, being misled...we should look around...who is NOT being misled in one way or another?

• Reply by Willy on 2015-11-09 04:08:30

  My 38 building as a Jehovahs Witness has blown apart, but my foundation Jehovah and his son Jesus is unshaken. I love them that's is what I know. I am reading a lot, crying a lot praying a lot, what to do. To partake or not? I feel I should because of Matthew 28:20, Jesus told them to learn new disciples to do ALL he commended them to do. This verse comes to me when I think of to partake, for the first time in 38 Years. I am awakening, but it's a painful process and I pray for all my brothers and sisters, Jehovah knows our hearts , and intentions, and I don't feel anointed at all. Just a sheep.

  • Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-09 11:12:57

    Willy,
    Pray for Jehovah's help to know and understand what is best for you at this time. If your heart is not leading you to partake then rely on Jehovah.
    One of the blessings of being in the Organization in the 1950's and 60's is that there were still a number of publishers from Russell's day attending meeting and gatherings. At one such gathering an "anointed" partaker from Russell's and Rutherford's day gave this very instructive and revealing testimony (a Bible student term): When the door to the Great Crowd teaching was opened in 1935 a surprising thing happened, there were some who stopped partaking. The reason they stopped was because they never felt anointed or called to heaven. They partook because that's what they were taught to do. But once the door opened for them to welcome and accept their own hearts desire they stopped partaking. They never had the desire to live heaven, their hearts desire was to live on earth- they remained active and lived a fulfilled life free to express THEIR heart's desire not what someone else thought they should feel or do.
    After 1935 the tide changed and eventually most people were expected not to partake, making partaking of the emblems a very hard thing to do since the tendency of humans is to socially herd and mark those who are different. Even so there were new young partakers during those years both in the congregations and Bethel.
    Today, thanks to Jehovah, 2007 dawned the end of officially barring partaking. Now it is a little easier to partake but the atmosphere is still not welcoming. This is expected, we should not think that our lives as Christians will be an easy climb- it never has been.
    Today, every JW stands before Jehovah God and whether he or she partakes is between them and Christ. No man, or woman, has the right to tell them what they should do or not do..
    Jehovah is perfectly capable of opening hearts and minds, he does need our help in determining who should partake or not partake.
    We are free to lean on Jehovah and Christ, to lean on them ALONE to lead us in this matter. Knowing and trusting that if we urgently need to understand right at this moment we WILL understand but if not then understanding will come in God's due time. Either way we are fine and safely trusting in God.

    • Reply by Willy on 2015-11-09 13:01:54

      Deborah,
      Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I feel we all 8 million JW should partake due to Matthew 28:19-20. As we looked in the studybible of JW Matthew 28:20 refers to 1 Cor. 11:23-26. Are these verses not prove that we all should? My husband and I always looked forward to Paradise on Earth, where Christ Kingdom will rule and Everyone would live to glorify God.
      Psalm 150:6.
      Love to you all
      Willy

      • Reply by Hamilton Grey on 2015-11-12 14:54:18

        Hi willy you may find the information found at perimeno website enlighting regarding the meaning of the emblems and who should partake.
        http://perimeno.ca/Letters_0215_Another_Memorial_Question.htm

        • Reply by Willy on 2015-11-13 07:18:25

          Mister Grey, thank you, I Will study the information you kindly profided me :)
          Kind regards Willy

Comment by Deborah on 2015-11-09 14:01:52

(Correcting format.)
Par. 3 (excerpt): “Similarly, when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah and got baptized, we did so because of our faith. Jesus called us to be his followers, to walk in his footsteps.”
Q. 3: Is there any scriptural basis for the premise that we have dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as part of the baptismal process?
A. No. Though the Jews as a nation were God’s dedicated and chosen people, meaning that Christ’s early disciples were already dedicated to Jehovah, there is no record of gentile believers becoming dedicated to Jehovah before baptism.
_________________
Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, we became his friends, something we could never have done in our own power.”
Q. 4: What, if any, is the Scriptural basis for believing that faith moves us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah with a view to becoming his friends?
A. A disciple of Christ has the hope of becoming a son of God, and a “friend” of Jesus- “You are my friends…”
__________________
Par. 5 (excerpt): “More than that, because of our faith, we will receive a gift no human could ever obtain by his own efforts—everlasting life.—John 3:16”
Q. 5: What type of everlasting life is John 3:16 referring to? Is there any scriptural basis for applying this to the type of everlasting life the article is referring to?
A. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Letting Jesus speak for himself:
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Rev 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
___________________
Par. 6 – “The wind and waves surrounding Peter as he walked on the water might be compared to the trials and temptations we face in our life of dedication to God.”
Q. 6: Since the Bible does not refer to “Christian dedication to God”, why do you think this phrase is used so often in the publications?
A. It is their belief, a belief which is many times sadly manipulated to hide the brutal truth- that they are actually not dedicated to God himself but to a nebulous entity they call the “Organization.”
____________________
Par. 11 – “Do I chafe at Scriptural counsel? Instead of looking for a way to benefit from the counsel, we might be focusing on some defect in the counsel or in the counselor. (Prov. 19:20) We might thus miss an opportunity to bring our thinking into line with God’s.”
Q. 11: While the idea of humbly accepting Scriptural counsel is sound, what is really implied by this statement in your experience?
A. When scriptures are used to support the unbiblical and harsh teachings of men God’s word is then being used to force submission to MEN. Unholy is the word to describe that.
______________________
Par. 12 – “Likewise, if we constantly grumble about those whom God is using to lead his people, is this not an indication that our faith in God has weakened?”
Q. 12: As it applies to the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, is there a flaw in this reasoning? What would be the Scriptural course of action when we feel that there is cause for complaint against those taking the lead in the Organization?
A. The scriptural course of action would be to speak directly to the leadership as Jesus himself did (something many have attempted online, in letters, and some even in person) while recognizing that if they do not listen to the Son of God neither will they listen to us. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day wanted him to keep quiet as well…something to think about.
____________________
Par. 15 – ”Just as Peter refocused on Jesus, we too must “look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus.” (Read Hebrews 12:2, 3) Of course, we cannot literally see Jesus as Peter did. Instead, we “look intently” at Jesus by examining his teachings and actions and then following these closely. Consider some steps we can take based on the model Jesus set. If we put these into practice, we will receive the help we need to make our faith firm.”
Q. 15: Examining the context of this Scripture (Read Hebrews 12:1-8), who is the writer referring to? Could “Jehovah’s friends”—but not his sons—be included in its application? If we are to ‘follow closely’ the footsteps of Jesus who despised shame for the joy set before him, what joy does the Watchtower set before us to give us cause to endure our torture stake?
A. Abraham endured, Moses endured, Jeremiah endured. They endured because God helped them to endure. If we endure anything it is not with our own strength or in EXPECTING A GUARANTEED HEAVENLY LIFE. There are no guarantees to heavenly life, only hope and that hope is in life itself wherever it may be and the resurrection. Most Christians who have died in the last 2000 years will awake to a life on earth and they will be very HAPPY with that life.
______________________
Par. 16 – “To illustrate, you might increase your conviction that the end of this system of things really is near by studying in detail the Scriptural proof that we live in the last days.”
Q. 16: What Scriptural proof is there that we live in the last days? Does this proof coincide with what the Organization is teaching about the last days?
A. Yes, we are living in the last days:
Mat 25:5 “Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
Mat 25:6 “But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
Mat 25:7 “Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 “The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
Mat 25:9 “But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’
________________________
Par. 19 – “So when choosing your friends, look for people who show their faith by their obedience to Jesus. And remember that one sign of a good friendship is open communication, even when this calls for giving or accepting counsel.”
Q. 19: Based on this counsel, are all Jehovah’s Witnesses showing their faith? On what basis can we find good friendship among Jehovah’s Witnesses and which ones should we be cautious with?
A. I will not judge the brothers and sisters hearts. Many are following Christ in ways unseen to us but seen by God. We can find good friends among Jehovah’s Witnesses by keeping in mind they are sheep, Christ’s sheep who must be loved and treated as we would want to be treated with respect both for their person and their beliefs.
No Jehovah’s Witness will lose out on life merely because they were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. No Jehovah’s Witness who is called by God will refrain from partaking merely because of his religion. God is able to strengthen them and they WILL partake if called. So truly, we trust in God- say what we believe must be said, should be said, as Jesus did, and not be overly anxious or worried that 8 million people are, in our view, being misled…we should look around…who is NOT being misled in one way or another?

Comment by Father jack on 2015-11-09 15:57:23

Question 11 about chafing at scriptural counsel . I never had a problem with scriptural counsel , but it has to be just that scriptural . Some of the counsel we had over the years was just plain unscriptural , we always asked what scripture was it based on we either got no answer at all or got a scripture that had been missaplied . For example the grief i had about my sons beard . ( not a bible teaching ) they shouldnt be atteding university ( not a bible teaching ) based on a missaplication of phillipians 3 . You are not allowed to visit a sick sister alone . (Not a bible teaching ) in fact worse against bible teaching . Get your report in ( not a bible teaching ) the implication of the statement is to force us to be obedient to men at the helm of an organisation to be manipulated . Sad and shocking but true in my opinion .

• Reply by Deborah on 2015-11-10 10:21:18

  The Society likes rules- the easy road to nowhere. It's a common fault among the religious.
  They are like children gathering in a field to play marching band with whatever improvised instruments they can find. Good fun but certainly not Handel's Messiah.
  To play Handel's Messiah professional musicians and vocalists know their parts even with eyes closed but they also know that the only way to make beautiful music TOGETHER is to watch and follow their Conductor.
  The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a children's marching band which, especially since the time of Rutherford, has been playing discordant cacophonous music. Out of tune, out of time, and spiritually destructive. This did not happen by accident. Every time a Christian man or woman picks up Christ's scepter and "conducts" he will inevitably drive the sheep over a precipice. Only Christ conducts, we just try to do our best not to mess up his music, his Father"s Music!
  Beards- there are no "rules" on beards. Only discordant marching bands have rules such as this.
  Higher education- there are no rules on this either. Young people should, though, be made aware of the heightened social pressure to conform especially when living on campus or off campus dormitories.
  A man and woman not married to one another being alone in the same room- there are no rules here as well. To think a "chastity belt" keeps immorality away is also childish. We make mistakes, fall, go the wrong way- this is life. What matters is that we turn around, accept responsibility, apologize, make amends to those we have injured, and ask God to please forgive us and to us grant wisdom.
  Reporting Time- This encourages the very thing Jesus warned against:
  (Matthew 23:5-7) 5 All the works they do they do to be viewed by men; for they broaden the [scripture-containing] cases that they wear as safeguards, and enlarge the fringes [of their garments]. 6 They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men.

  • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-10 14:59:48

    Thanks deb your dead right of course . The way they twisted phillipians 3 got me insinuating that higher education was a lot of refuse . Both of my sons went to uni we live close to one . Both have now the skills and ability to make a success of thier relationship . Family life . Ect . It was a discrace that counsel because it has deprived some very clever kids of thier chance to develop into mature adults with the ability to provide for a wife children husband . Comfortably . I know some who feel resentful now . For goodness sake paul was speaking of his experience in his former religion with its emphasis on works as compared to christianity . We can see a modern day application now cant we

    • Reply by Meg on 2015-11-15 13:23:16

      It also encouraged many young men to immerse themselves in video gaming and basically, becoming 'sloth-like'. I lived it, and now most of my kids constituents continue to be 'sloth-like' because they didn't have any guidance on obtaining the training necessary to grow up, have a family and support a pioneer, or pioneers.
      It chaffed me to no end to hear/endure the lessons that equated education with serious sin. Really?
      Education = sinning? I can't remember the WT article, but I remember that the paragraph contained 'pursuing higher education', 'fornication', etc. and equated these things as having equal weight!
      Arghh!! This particular bone of contention is painful. I couldn't support this idea, and felt conflicted the entire time, that I was trying to reason with my kids that, no, they DID need to get education.

      • Reply by Father jack on 2015-11-18 02:17:44

        One thing i did not appeciate meg was a talk at a convention once . Which said you young people if your parents or well meaning relatives tell you you need higher education dont listen to them . Listen to us we know best . It annoyed me that one what a cheek .

Comment by Father jack on 2015-11-09 16:25:01

Para 12 as well its shocking because what is assumed is that god is using the govening body of JWs t lead his people . Lets get this straight the one and only leader of christianty is jesus christ himself the rest of us are all brothers . If there is a cause for complaint the scriptural action is found at matthew 18 to speak to them about it in private difficult when we dont know them . So i took it to the next best thing a private discussion with those upholdind these rules the elders . Those ones who take the lead . Guess what i didnt manage to get to step 2 or 3 take along another brother or take it to the congregation .

Comment by father jack on 2015-11-11 02:51:19

Just read the article theres some class statements here . Para 10 when others hurt or offend us we might be tempted to cut them off by not speaking to them on the other hand if we forgive we show our faith in jehovah !!!!!!!!!! Para 19 . And remember the sign of a good friendship is open communication even when this calls for giving and accepting counsel . ? Blah blah blah .

Comment by Menrov on 2015-11-13 07:59:08

Par 4 has: Faith motivated us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, and we became his friends, something we could never have done without his help.—Ephesians 2:8.
So, does this mean that being a FRIEND of Jehovah is the key to being SAVED as Eph. 2:8 talks about.......new light.
Par 5 has: Also, because we trust in Jehovah, we do not need to worry as much when we have problems. Jehovah has promised that he will give us what we need if we have faith in him and put his Kingdom first.
That is the out of jail card...it means that the lack of support from the organization towards the special pioneers and bethelites being sent home is nothing to worry about.....
Par 7 has: Because the Bible says that loss of faith is “the sin that easily entangles us.” (Hebrews 12:1)
That is not what that verse says.....it says: 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, we must get rid of every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and run with endurance the race set out for us
Par 8 is most confusing.
Par 9 has: When we work hard for Jehovah, it helps us to focus on our hope for the future. However, what if we have started to focus more on our own interests?
This is a contraction. To focus on our hope = to focus on you own hope, right? so what is the difference with focus on our own interests....it is the same both statements: one is focused on his own future or interest.
Par 10 has: If someone sins against us, they owe us a debt.
Where does such a statement come from?
It also has: So when we forgive others, we are trusting in Jehovah. We trust him to bless our attitude
So, in the end, forgiving others is all about being rewarded for it.....
Par 12 has: Yes, Jehovah knew that the Israelites did not trust in him because they complained against Moses and Aaron, men whom he had appointed
Sneaky...a way to make it clear that those taking the lead are also appointed by Jehovah......Also, the WT conveniently forgot to add the final words in the verse: in spite of the signs that I have done among them?
Par 13 has: After considering these questions, do not be disappointed if you see that your faith has weakened
hahaha... not faith but one's joy might be weakened
Par 15 has: we too must “look intently” at Jesus
It is peculiar how the WT lately refer to Jesus in some of the study articles.
Par 16 has: Jesus was convinced that the Bible is God’s Word and that it gives us the best advice. (John 17:17)
well, that verse will not confirm the statement here. Most peculiar statement in my view
Par 17 has: How can we imitate Jesus’ example? Meditate on the wonderful promises Jehovah has made. Imagine yourself in the new world. Write about or draw what you will do in Paradise. Or make a list of resurrected people you would like to talk with and what you would like to say to them. See these as God’s promises, not just to people in general, but to you
REALLY?? That is not what Jesus was meditating on, he did not make pictures. These lines show how physical their belief has become. How self centric.
Par 19 has: His closest friends, the apostles, were faithful, loyal, and obedient to him
What about Judas??

Comment by Meg on 2015-11-15 14:53:37

Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, we became his friends, something we could never have done in our own power.”
Q. 4: What, if any, is the Scriptural basis for believing that faith moves us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah with a view to becoming his friends?
My humble opinion:
A:
Point 1: Adam was created by Jesus, along side his father, Jehovah
(John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence). ( Prov 8:30 I was beside him as a master worker)
Point 2: Jesus is the only means by which we 'all' find life, and receive Jah's approval.
(Prov 8:32,33) And now, my sons, listen to me: Yes, happy are those who keep my ways.
(Prov 8:35) For the one finding me will find life, and he receives approval from Jehovah.
Point 3: Adam was the 'father' of the entire human race (and Eve...was the 'mother' of the human race). When they fell into sin, and died, they lost the privilege of CONTINUING to BE our father and mother.
Point 5: Through the sacrifice of his life and faithful course on earth, Jesus 'bought ALL of mankind back', and we became Jehovah's 'children' and 'brothers and sisters' of our Lord Jesus (Titus 2:13-14) and we became his 'special possession', where we put faith in Him, and became his 'brothers and sisters".
(Heb 2:11) Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family.
So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
(Heb 2:13) And again, "I will put my trust in him." And again he says, "Here am I, and the children God has given me."
No mention of a second-class citizenship where redeemed mankind are Jah's 'friends'

• Reply by Meg on 2015-11-16 14:46:47

  As a followup, I have altered the Lord's prayer to be more 'appropriate' as one of the great crowd, with an earthly hope. Here it goes:
  When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. 8 So do not be like them, for your 'Friend' knows what you need+ even before you ask him.
  9 “You must pray, then, this way:+
  “‘Our 'Friend' in the heavens, let your name+ be sanctified.*+ 10 Let your Kingdom+ come. Let your will+ take place, as in heaven, also on earth.+ 11 Give us today our bread for this day;+ 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.+ 13 And do not bring us into temptation,+ but deliver* us from the wicked one.’+
  14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly 'Friend' will also forgive you;+ 15 whereas if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your 'Friend' forgive your trespasses.+
  16 “When you fast,+ stop becoming sad-faced like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces* so they may appear to men to be fasting.+ Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 17 But you, when fasting, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that you may not appear to be fasting to men but only to your 'Friend' who is in secret. Then your 'Friend' who looks on in secret will repay you.
  Somehow, I just lost the relationship that I 'thought' I had on the basis of Jesus' ransom sacrifice. I understood that I could pray freely to our (Um...'Friend'?) with a knowledge that the sacrifice served as a covering for mankind's sins.
  Wow.

  • Reply by Meg on 2015-11-26 18:00:15

    In fairness, I felt I needed to state that last weeks WT study treated the subject of Jehovah being our 'heavenly Father' (as opposed to not just our 'Friend', for those of us identified as 'great crowd members') with much better accuracy and respect. I actually enjoyed the talk (which didn't harp on, or put so much emphasis on the Faithful Slave), but kept things focused on Jesus/Jehovah. I also enjoyed the two songs that we sang, along with that article. The brother who gave the talk, was from an African country that has been torn apart by years of civil war and constant turmoil. He had a great perspective, that I appreciated very much.

Comment by sw on 2015-11-15 22:51:07

Just a quick note that the following comment was made on paragraph 20 of how "By both word and deed, Jesus built up the faith of his disciples" and that if we make friends as Jesus did, we would not shun anyone because Jesus never shunned anyone, and neither would we "grumble against appointed brothers" or "quickly shun them." Instead we might "tactfully come to their aid, helping them take steps to restore their faith" as related by Jude 22, 23:
"Also, continue showing mercy to some who have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire," fire being a more fearsome thing than drowning as Peter might have experienced.
sw