ARC Duplicity

Comment by katrina on 2017-03-13 08:17:08

They were deceptive.

Comment by Menrov on 2017-03-13 09:39:32

this us an excellent documentary by BBC Panorama:

not new (2002) and it is therefore actually a big shame that not much has improved since then

• Reply by Amitafal on 2017-03-14 03:56:07

  I remember that programme. My husband was still serving as MS and I was pioneering. He said we should not watch it-( obviously after he was counselled by the elders possibly in a meeting for servants). I watch about 15 mins of it but felt guilty and thought that the victims looked as if they had rebelled, (tattoos and piercings), so I am sad to say now that I labelled them as apostates and didn't watch the rest. Like many of our fellow brothers and sisters today I thought nothing more of it and thought these were lies, as they would often tell us from the platform and at assemblies. Well there's a saying - "the truth will out". So I hope and pray that Jehovah will reveal this appalling truth to honest hearted ones still trapped in the Org, and they will get out of her! (Rev 18:4) I am planing to fade out - no need to disassociate and write a letter to them. It's between me and Jehovah after all.
  P.s I think I will watch the whole documentary now! Thanks for the link Menrov

  • Reply by Yehorakam on 2017-03-17 12:53:32

    Hi Amitafal. What you mention is a typical reaction when we see someone with piercings and tattoos. I had to fight that same tendency in times past. There are different reasons for getting piercings and tattoos. Some just do it to fit in to a rebellious group, some because of spiritistic influence. But, with the little experience I have, I discovered that when someone is abused, the tremendous feelings of self-hate and abuse are so traumatic that victims often resort to drugs, tattoos, disfiguring, cutting and hurting themselves or even killing themselves. So, in these cases, the visible things we see are not necessarily a sign of "rebellion," but rather of deep pain. I helped a close friend who was a victim of abuse and he tried all of the above in a futile effort to get rid of the pain. With something so despicable done to a child, we would be better not to judge the appearance of such ones, and nor judge them by their actions. Very often it is not what they want to do, but a sub-conscious reaction because of the abuse. They often feel lost and 'will try anything.' We certainly would not judge a person who doesn't walk straight if we knew his leg had been amputated. These victims have been 'dismembered' in many ways. I found out that with my friend, no elder could help him because they were wanting to judge his every action that was not in harmony with Bible principles. In fact, in order to protect him from my fellow elders during that difficult time, I had to convince them not to form a judicial committee (with the goal of disfellowshipping him) using the reasoning that his baptism was never valid. When they were convinced he was not a baptized member, they finally backed off. Funny, while he was inactive and doing everything wrong, they left him alone. When he finally started to improve his conduct and attending meetings, that's when they wanted to kick him out for not making changes fast enough. It was my remaining an unconditional friend and sincere interest in him over a long, long time that helped him to recover to a large extent. I think that if you can't help out for a really, really long time, then it's best not to help, because the victim will once again feel abandoned and worthless.
    
    It's wonderful that you've decided to watch the whole video this time. By doing so, you will be giving that particular victim a chance to speak to you. Refusing to listen to victims is a tremendous injustice that the organization commits quite regularly. It's condemned by our Father. May we be different.
    
    Thanks again Menrov for letting us know about the video.
    
    Much love,

Comment by Yehorakam on 2017-03-13 09:46:14

What a "loving" organization, putting the blame on children by saying that these children knew what they were getting into. Just another reason John's and Jesus' words will find fulfillment...

"Indeed, the ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. He takes away every branch in me not bearing fruit....If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

• Reply by wild olive on 2017-11-16 17:42:49

  Those words of Jesus make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, right now all I can see is an axe , not a visible organisation.

Comment by Candace on 2017-03-13 11:51:27

I notice a pattern here. There has never been any acknowledgement of wrongdoing or misapplication of scriptural principles by the organisation, even when they are clearly in the wrong or even when they have made serious mistakes. The blame is always on the flock, sheep who our spiritual shepherds are meant to be serving.

No wonder why Jesus lamented that people were 'skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd' (Matt 9:36). That's the same as back then as it is today, because the so call shepherds are not looking after their flock properly! Just think of all the vulnerable children in the congregations with an attitude like that. How very disappointing to see the responses in this video. :'(

• Reply by Amitafal on 2017-03-14 03:44:14

  Hi Candace
  Nice to see you thinking outside of the Org and backing up with scripture. After our families experience with Elders over the past 4 years especially, they really have shown themselves not to be a hiding place from the wind. isa 32:2.
  I know there are some sincere Elders out there still serving and hoping they can make a difference to help the congregation. If only they knew that the congregation is suffering under the 'bad' elders and the GB. After all they are just men- so why would any of us want to follow them down this wrong path? Psalms 146:3

Comment by Robert-6512 on 2017-03-13 12:04:39

I still remember watching the ARC proceedings where WT was asked why they never reported a single case of abuse in 60 years. They thought matters were better handled internally. When reminded that the current law in Australia required them to report, they said that they were obligated to call the Legal Dept. They were then asked if they knew for an absolute certainty that abuse was occurring, could they report then? No, they had to call Legal Dept. Pressed on this, they then asked, "Well, if you knew for a certainty that a JW congregation member committed murder, would you report it then?" No, we would have to call the Legal Dept.

That was the most damning, reprehensible reply ever to come out of WT's mouth. It is irredeemable and unforgiveable. In my view, it brands WT as being spineless, unconscionable and morally bankrupt. It invalidates their entire religion, and it ought to silence for all time anyone still coming to their defense.

Comment by lazarus on 2017-03-13 15:08:36

They reminded me of two boxers on the defensive just ducking, dodging the blows and throwing the odd jab.

This document that the presented to the ARC was referred to as a 'living document' based on a UK Policy of JW's. Again many questions were asked by the ARC, regarding making this document available to all members , further changes to be made or adjusted as a result of Fridays meeting, the 2 witness rule, Shunning and a inclusion in the OM book regards to Child Abuse procedure.

SC Stewart and Justice Mclellan was surprised at the lack of empathy being shown towards the victims of such abuse and are shunned because for whatever reasons they can't associate with the congregation.

I don't think they(these 2 brothers personally are), however the policy's are the real issues, and are above personal feelings as the below exchange reveals, regards to Shunning;

Justice McLellan: "Why can't they keep having social contact with those people who happen to remain in the organisation?...Why is it necessary for the organisation to tell all of its adherents 'you must shun this person'?"
Bro Spinks: "Because the individual has taken the decision to no longer associate, or to no longer be involved with congregation activities... they've taken the decision to say: 'I'm shunning the congregation'."

(I can't believe he said that, not a good response by Bro Spinks.)

Justice McLellan: "They still want to have their friends and family... why is it necessary that everyone else must now shun them?"
(Then I felt a raw or real moment of honesty) by Bro T O Brian.

Counsel assisting, Angus Stewart: "The real answer is because you say the bible says so. That's the answer, isn't it?"
Bro T O'Brien: "Yes, that's our understanding of the scriptural disfellowshipping disassociation doctrine.

As honest as it gets.

One of the Justice's made the point also that The Organisation were more concerned about the legal responsibility of the Org. than showing much concern for the well-being of the victims.

He was trying to draw on their Roles as Elders showing compassion to these ones , ahead of the Orgs interpretation of Shunning.

Of course more should be done, but if anyone of us, or elders even brought this enquiry to the GB's attention or did so in the last 50 years, very little was done. This public Enquiry into Child Abuse through the Govt. Has brought some changes and a awareness of these issues. And has put the Org in the Spotlight as not adequately meeting the needs of CA victims.


We hope Sanity prevails and Shunning is eventually dropped as well as implementing some of the other suggestions like reporting it the the authorities.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-03-13 18:05:34

  If only Stewart had asked them to provide the Scriptural basis for disassociation. Then they would have seen just how baseless this doctrine is.

  • Reply by Menrov on 2017-03-14 06:20:39

    May be good to send an email to Stewart and explain what the scriptures actually say. I have done in the past on some other point. They are very interested.

Comment by eve04 on 2017-03-13 17:30:52

In defense (not really) of the two Brothers, with all their bumbling I think they were thrown under the bus. One even mention he wasn’t in Australia but they made him come. I think they were ill prepared and could not say anything because they probably didn’t really know all the details of what was going and out of fear of what would happen to them if they said the wrong thing. Spinks mentioned “ I am not an Attorney”. This is why the GB should have been there since these are their policies. However, we see what Jackson spewed out.
I think it is disgusting and sickens me to my stomach. I have not been out in service much and feel ashamed to go out. I remember when the movie Spotlight came out, some of the friends I know were so happy that was a blow to the Catholic church and we are in the some predicament but how many of the friends will admit this.
One thing I am certain a movie about the Catholic Churches abuse cover up did not bring them down and neither will this about JW. I strongly see why Babylon the Great will have to be brought down by Divine intervention because then all will know and BG wil know how DISGUSTED JEHOVAH GOD was with them.
Let’s up it comes soon

Comment by vinman on 2017-03-13 22:50:31

I just don't get it. They have been caught with their pants down. Why not just confess that they have a serious problem and put into practice what the Royal commission told them? What are they doing? Are they hiding something else greater than we know? Did you notice how it ended? The judge was done. He didn't even want to wrap up the subject of financial help. Why do they refuse to turn over information in the San Diego case, and pay $4000 a day? When the RC is done, what affect will this have on funds? I just don't get it. This is nothing but a secret society. I guess I will have to wait till they shrink or fall, and then find out the truth on the Discovery channel.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-03-14 06:59:10

  They are caught between the rock and the hard place of their own doctrines. It is inconceivable that Jehovah's channel of communication should take instructions from Satan's wicked system of things. How could Satan's world have good advice which the Governing Body hasn't already come up with? Do we think that the rulers of this system of things know more than the Governing Body? Perish the thought!
  
  Accepting and implementing the recommendations of the Royal Commission is tantamount to admitting that the Governing Body is not the channel Jehovah is using.
  
  That's the rock. The hard place is the PR nightmare these revelations are creating exacerbated by the public display of uncaring men only interested in protecting their "place and their nation".

  • Reply by vinman on 2017-03-14 08:27:39

    I agree with what you are saying. But something must give. This will continue beyond Australia. The fantasy that you will stick to a dogma because you believe you are God's organization, doesn't work in the real world. Adapt or vanish. At the least, you will shrink to an unrecognizable religion. This information is becoming so widespread, no one from the outside is becoming a witness, unless they have no internet.
    
    But like you said, if they change, it will prove they don't have the truth. Even if they relax certain policies like shunning, this will not grow numbers. Because if it is not the truth and they are more like another religion, people still do not want the burdensome weight of JW expectations.

  • Reply by simplyme on 2017-03-15 12:15:58

    Your right they are caught between a rock and a hard place but what they're doing doesn't make any sense. Sometimes I wonder if they have had a consulting firm give them advice on their predicament and have formed an exit strategy. To liquidate all assets besides their main buildings and form an online religion of sorts. To even reorganize under a new name such as Jehovah's Worshippers (so they can keep jw.org). Maybe they have run the numbers and know they will loose an estimated percentage of ones, but a core group will loyally stay with them. I don't know if this does anything for them legally but their liabilities from that time on would be greatly reduced and they could even distance themselves from earlier doctrines.

• Reply by tyhik on 2017-03-14 17:45:08

  Hi vinman. You asked: why just not confess? I think the answer is simple. It'd be too costly.
  
  The org has made some $1.3 billion of the sales of their Brooklyn property in recent years. Some of that money has been put into the new HQ. But still, they should have quite some money left. However, they are not rich enough to admit their errors in court. As soon as they admit their wrong policies and the harm these have caused, they'll swamp in court cases by victims. The damages may reach tens of millions each case. Out of court settlements, though the amounts are undisclosed, cost millions too. So the org is rich enough to let go $4000 a day, but it is not ready to settle hundreds or thousands of court cases within a few years. So they'll continue to drag their feet in every possible way in every court case in a foreseeable future. ARC was just one example of it.
  
  I think the fear of losing their face because of changing policies would not be a blocker. They are clever enough to bring in almost any radical change and make rank and file applaud it as a new and brilliant flash of light from Jehovah. Or at least silently swallow it.

Comment by Mike West on 2017-03-13 12:19:09

The hypocrisy here is obvious and shocking. It's bad enough (and unscriptural) that the org is pressuring the very young to get baptized when they can't and don't know all of the organizational ramifications. But the additional layer of abused children later leaving the org because of what they suffered, and then being shunned, is a disgrace. This one issue should be enough (although there are many others) for R&F JW's to question the claim that this is Jehovah's only earthly org.

Comment by amoreomeara on 2017-03-14 08:26:20

Technically a new born baby is "approaching adulthood", they just have nearly 2 decades to get there! This is still deliberately deceptive in my opinion.

At 3m40s Stephen Lett said "The sooner you get baptised, the sooner you will receive greater blessings and protection from Jehovah."

Does anyone know what these (1) blessings and (2) protection are particularly? I mean other than a bribe!
:-)