Treasures from God's Word and Digging for Spiritual Gems – ‘Your sons and your daughters will Prophesy’
Joel 2:28, 29 – Anointed Christians serve as spokesmen for Jehovah (jd 167 para 4)
This second reference makes the following claim without any basis.
“Joel’s prophecy has been undergoing its major fulfilment since early in the 20th century. Spirit-anointed Christians...began to ‘prophesy’, that is to declare ‘the magnificent things of God’, including the good news of the Kingdom, now established in the heavens.”
As discussed many times in articles on this site, the Kingdom was not established in 1914 as the Organization teaches. The Kingdom was established when Jesus was on earth, and he will take power when he comes at Armageddon. This is another type /anti-type created without scriptural basis to try to prove that God and Jesus have chosen the Organization to represent them.
Acts 2:1-21 clearly shows that Joel 2:28, 29 was fulfilled in the 1st Century. What indications can we find in these scriptures to confirm that it was only for the 1st century? (Further, the onus is on the organization to prove the requirement for a larger fulfillment)?
- Acts 2:21 – The correct translation is, “And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”.[i]
- Acts 2:17 – When would this saying take place? “And in the last days”. The last days of what? The last days of the Jewish system of things that the first century Christians were living through and the time when the holy spirit was clearly poured out?
- So, how did “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord” get saved? Those Jews in Judea and Galilee in the 1st century who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, thereby calling on his name, obeyed Jesus warning to flee to the mountains when they saw the disgusting thing (the Roman army and pagan standards) standing where they ought not (in the temple). As a result, they were saved from death and slavery. However, the Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah were annihilated as a nation in the following three and a half years, as first Vespasian and then Titus his son lay waste to Galilee, Judea, and finally Jerusalem.
- Was Joel 2:30, 31 fulfilled in the 1st Century? Was the “sun itself turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah”? It seems highly likely. While Jesus was dying on the torture stake, Matthew 27:45, 51 records the sun being in darkness from midday for 3 hours, too long a period to be an eclipse. Then as Jesus died, an earthquake rent the sanctuary curtain in two. This all occurred before the destruction of the Jewish nation in 67 – 70 CE, when Jehovah removed his protection from his former chosen people and instead chose those who accepted his son Jesus Christ as the Messiah to be his spiritual nation of Israel.
Joel 2:30-32 – Only those who call on the name of Jehovah will be saved during his awe-inspiring day (w07 10/1 13 para 2)
The reference given here is actually correct in what it says. It is interesting to note though that in the cited scripture of Romans 10:13, 14 discussing its fulfillment, almost all translations have the rendering, “For everyone who calls on the name Of the Lord will be saved”. This matches Acts 2:21. The entire context of Romans 10 is discussing putting faith in Jesus, vs. 9 saying “publicly declaring” that “Jesus is Lord” and “that God raised him up from the dead”. Romans 10:12 goes on to say that “there is no distinction between Jew and Greek for there is the same Lord over all,” while Romans 10:14 goes on to say “However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard?” The Gentiles had heard of Jehovah, the God of the Jews. Indeed the Jews had made proselytes of some of the Gentiles, but they had not heard of Jesus the Messiah, the one of whom Acts 4:12 states “Furthermore there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” It was putting faith in the benefits of Christ’s ransom made possible through his sacrificial death and resurrection that was the vital thing for all men to do from Jesus' death onward. The cross-reference on Romans 10:11 is Isaiah 28:16 about Jehovah “laying as a foundation in Zion a stone, a tried stone,” which is confirmed in Acts 4:11 where Isaiah 28:16 was quoted by the apostle Peter.
Initial Call and Return Visit
Both these items are promoting JW.org, not the Holy Bible, and the concept that to get to God and Jesus, we have to go through men as intermediaries. Christ is the only mediator we need. We should be directing people straight to God's word that is as powerful as a two-edged sword, not to an internet site that at best is man-made and therefore being imperfect cannot have the effect of the Holy Bible. – Hebrews 4:12
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[i] This is one of a number of instances where the context would strongly suggest that “kyrios” should be translated as it is in the Greek manuscripts, i.e. as “Lord”, not replaced with “Jehovah”. In many instances, it seems that the early Christian writers deliberately used the Greek Septuagint text, which contained “Lord” in many places, and applied it to Christ, even when the original scripture referred to Jehovah. They were likely making the point that until Christ, all had to look to Jehovah, but now things had changed. Unless everyone accepted Jesus as the Messiah sent by Jehovah God, they could not gain salvation.
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Comment by Robert-6512 on 2017-10-30 17:34:14
Like many others, I assume, I have read the passage in Acts many times, and whenever the word before appears in "sun itself turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah", I always read it as 'in front of' or 'in the presence of'. But, you are quite correct about the period of darkness on the day Jesus died. So, "before" is not used in some literary or poetic sense, but literally, to show a sequence of events in time. With that understanding, a complete application of Joel/Acts to the first century makes perfect sense now.
I never would have made that connection without your clear insight and sound reasoning. Nicely done.
Comment by yobec on 2017-10-30 18:19:13
It is quite interesting the things that fall into place when we recognize that most of "the last days" were fulfilled in the 1st century.
I appreciated your explanation about the sun being darkened. I had not really made that connection before.
As for the moon being turned to blood, do you think that Jesus' blood sacrifice occurring on the full moon of Nisan 14th might pertain to the fulfillment?Reply by MarthaMartha on 2017-10-30 19:08:15
Interesting theory yobec!
I know that the darkness described in Matt 27 was too long to be a normal eclipse, but if Jehovah arranged it to happen that way, it would fit with the moon turning to blood, as in a total eclipse the moon does look red when it completely covers the sun.
Very interesting article thanks Tadua.
It may have been discussed already elsewhere, but may I ask how you see the fulfilment of Matthew 24:30,31 where it speaks of the sign of the Son of Man and the elect being gathered? Surely that cannot have happened in the 1st Century?
I find Matt 24 quite confusing really... It seems quite obvious that most of it applies to the 1st C but then some things surely have to apply to the future coming of the Lord?Reply by Tadua on 2017-10-31 20:21:16
Hi Martha Martha
Matthew 24:31,32 didn’t happen in the first century. The disciples question and the wording of Jesus reply allows for this. It has a natural fit however with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, amongst others, which indicate it takes place at Armageddon.
Reply by Tadua on 2017-10-31 04:34:50
Hi yobec
It could be symbolically referring to the blood of Jesus sacrifice. However there is another natural phenomena which Jehovah God could have arranged. A few weeks ago in the late afternoon the moon appeared and it was orange-red which we would call a blood moon. It lasted for more than an hour. It was due to the disturbances in the atmosphere caused by the tail end of a dying hurricane/bad storm. I took pictures of it. I have certainly never seen something like that.
Re Matthew I would put Matthew 24:23-31 & 36-51 in the future, still to be fulfilled, with the other verses having a first century fulfillment. Not only does the wording of the text allow and in places suggest that, but I’m doing so we do not make Jesus words contradict themselves, and which words also clearly had a first century fulfillment.
Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-11-01 05:18:05
Hi Yobec. The more I examine what the Bible says about the last days, the more I agree that they all seem to find fulfillment in the first century. So, this leaves just a few prophecies which have yet to be fulfilled, with no one knowing the day or the hour.
I do wonder where that leaves us. I guess the answer is simply to get on and be a good Christian and listen to what Jesus himself says and wait for his due time to act. This does not ignore Jehovah as Sovereign of the Universe, but the delegation to Jesus is in accordance with his will.
Comment by Robert-6512 on 2017-10-30 19:45:19
A thought about the "sun itself turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah":
Assuming that the word "before" refers to a sequence of events, and the first event was the death of Jesus, and the fear-inspiring day (the second event) was the destruction of Jerusalem, what about the sun and moon?
The sun was in darkness for 3 hours that day. It was a solar-eclipse-like event, but too long to be a real eclipse. The moon sometimes appears as a "blood moon" during a lunar eclipse, where the limited sunlight reaching the moon and atmospheric effects give the moon a reddish color. But, there certainly could not be a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse at the same time.
Just to speculate, suppose God created an eclipse-like event by interposing some object like a large asteroid between Earth and the Sun, and He kept it there for 3 hours. That object would darken the Earth's surface the way a solar eclipse would, and because it would have interfered with the light reaching the Moon, that could have made the Moon appear reddish, the way it does during parts of a lunar eclipse. Since this event involved the death of His son, and (perhaps) was the fulfillment of prophecy, it is reasonable to believe that He had a motivation for performing such an extraordinary, supernatural event, had He chosen to do so.
If such a thing happened, it would completely explain the meaning of the passage in Joel and Acts.
Comment by yobec on 2017-10-30 21:19:10
Another obvious 1st century Pentecost fulfillment. ISAIAH 66:8
" Who has heard such a thing? who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? "
The organization still teaches that this happened in 1919.
Comment by Eleasar on 2017-10-31 07:14:31
Excellent contextual analysis of scripture. This shows a prophecy and Peter is giving the fulfilment to his audience. Look at how many got baptised that day. The facts of the time connected so well to the prophecy and those with faith responded.
We need more of this type of analysis
Comment by Phelps on 2017-11-01 08:59:09
Google Translation :
thank you very much brother meleti for the explanation ... although I have some doubts. because not only the prophet Joel speaks of events of this nature. So does the book of apocalypse. Like Joel, apocalypse talks about horse-like locusts. joel talks about gathering "nations" for a war like apocalypse. with these examples is enough. should we expect some greater fulfillment, as the watchtower does, or should we see it as separate prophecies? thanks to all who can help with this topic.Reply by Tadua on 2017-11-01 09:27:07
Hi phelps
The book of Joel was written in about 820 BCE to Judah. The destruction of Israel by Assyria and Judah by Babylon was yet future, as was the destruction of Judah and Jerusalem by Rome in 70AD. It seems from chapter 2 and it’s quoted fulfillment in Acts and Romans that the day of Jehovah applied to 70AD. The latter part of chapter 3 seems to apply after that, I.e. Armageddon but we should be careful of making any firm application as it is not clear, nor are there any other indications elsewhere in the Bible. We certainly shouldn’t make type/anti-type applications like the Organisation does as there is no basis for this. Some of the imagery is similar to parts of Revelation but definitely linking it is another matter. We do not want to go beyond what is written. Probably the best course is to wait and see rather than trying to guess.Reply by Phelps on 2017-11-01 21:30:03
thank you sister ... You know ... the bad habits?
Reply by Worldling on 2017-11-01 23:30:32
Hi Tadua, you mentioned the book of Joel being written around 820 BCE and then the destruction of J&J in 70AD. BCE and AD are not two terms that should be combined together. BCE and CE are more less Jehovah's Witnesses terms, and BC and AD are terms used by more Christ-like ones,being several different religions included. I was just wondering if any other informed readers had noticed that?? (2Cor.10:11)
Reply by Worldling on 2017-11-05 23:25:33
Hi Phelps a late comeback to you but to my recollection all O.T. prophecies have been fulfilled except Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39. ( O sancta simplicitas!)
Comment by Maria on 2017-11-01 10:22:34
Isaiah 28:
16 therefore thus says the Lord God,
"Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion,
a stone, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation:
'Whoever believes will not be in haste.'
1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.Reply by Worldling on 2017-11-01 11:00:29
Hey Willy, you don't have to write the scriptures out they are already printed for us! I think this site uses the NKJ, but i wish it would use the authorized version. It is so much more beautifully translated and much less liberal. The Word of God is alive and his name is Jesus Christ. The personnel of Christ protects and guards the true written word of God and will not let it become a mockery with all these new translations.(1 Cor. 3:11)
Comment by An Attack Coming From the North! - Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2020-05-31 11:02:33
[…] For a discussion of Joel 2:28-32 mentioned in paragraph 15 please see https://beroeans.net/2017/10/30/2017-october-30-november-5-our-christian-life-and-ministry/ […]
Comment by An Attack Coming From the North! – Study 2020/14 - Awaken JW's on 2022-08-05 06:40:04
[…] For a discussion of Joel 2:28-32 mentioned in paragraph 15 please see https://beroeans.net/2017/10/30/2017-october-30-november-5-our-christian-life-and-ministry/ […]