Comment Voting Disabled

Comment by Christian on 2018-05-18 20:46:19

I'm not too sure about this. Over the past few months I've noticed a sense of Contolling going on, which has a certain resonance, with me, of a certain Society I thought I knew once. I've had two comments, that I thought were simply helpful and informative blocked, without explanation. My desires did not include leaping out of the kettle and into the fire.

• Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-19 13:33:18

  Christian,
  
  I know first hand how we can become impassioned by our viewpoints, and feel like the whole world needs to read our every word. At times, I have had some of those words blocked. But as far as comments being removed 'without explanation', or the site being 'controlling', I feel that is an unfair characterization.
  
  If you actually had a post removed, and don't know why, you should send a private message to Meleti/Eric and ask for clarification. It's better to do this privately, in order not to distract from the main purpose of the site, which is to try to get a firmer grasp on the truth, not to debate and challenge each other. To paraphrase the scriptures, love builds up, but arguments tear down.
  
  Those running this site are tasked with moderating it. The very word suggests that all participants need to be moderate in their words. If they don't, it may call for removal of posts.
  
  Why? Eric can explain better than me, but things 'asking' for removal are stuff like attacks on individuals, general hostility, demands for people to believe your own pet theories, and so on. These sorts of comments are disruptive and can hurt the feelings of others.
  
  Does that make those policies 'controlling'? Perhaps, to a point. Is that degree of control a bad thing? I don't see how there can be any alternative.
  
  This site allows us a degree of freedom, and as Christians we are also granted a measure of freedom. But even God Himself is not totally free, since He must abide by His own laws and principles, like the one that says He cannot lie.
  
  No one is so free that they can abuse their freedom with impunity. That is a reasonable restriction, and Christians are admonished to be reasonable.

Comment by Psalmbee on 2018-05-18 21:30:25

I think it's a great idea. More people will be inclined to comment without the fear of a thumbs down, and that's not the only benefit. I see a lot more conversating taking place without the "voting system".

Comment by Psalmbee on 2018-05-18 21:38:32

Brain, I thought I was noticing that about you and now it is confirmed.
I think you may be feeling a little like this (Ps 42:10).

Comment by mailman on 2018-05-18 22:25:11

Hi dear brothers and good morning. I suggest you retain just a "like" button similar to FB. No need for the voting down button. If somebody does not like the post, then he can just share his comments to it or keep silent.

The "like" button is a positive symbol. A person can just click it, no need to type the words if he/she has no other message to convey.

The "like" button is a motivating symbol, a tool to measure engagement. At least the contributor would know if readers are reading his/her post. After all, we all need the motivation we can get from our brothers in this community.

Stay positive, good morning again! :)

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-18 22:37:44

  Hi Mailman,
  
  The commenting plugin does not have a like button feature. I'm restricted by what features the plugin offers, unfortunately.

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:38:47

  ??

Comment by Kim on 2018-05-18 22:32:48

That's a good decision. I would think that there are some of us who are shy about leaving a comment because our writing is far from the standards of many that do leave comments but this encourages us to leave a response to show our appreciation for a well written and thoughtful post.

I was just thinking the other day that we have the opportunity to leave a thumbs up on posts from contributors but we have not had the ability to do that for the original post/blog so your decision makes sense.

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-18 22:35:36

Unfortunately, there's no way to disable the thumbs down without disabling the thumbs up. Unless we can find someone with Web programming expertise. :)

Comment by mark on 2018-05-18 23:18:01

Good idea Meleti. Voting down might cause conflict. I love this site. It really opened my mind and heart to what really is the truth. Keep up the good work on exposing the falsehoods of false religion

Comment by Alithia on 2018-05-18 23:58:37

I agree Meleti, I think it is much more appreciated when someone takes the time and effort to point out in a post what they particularly agreed with or found to be helpful, or perhaps agreed with to a point but differed on another point, this is not possible with the thumbs. Writing is much more personal and as everyone has a slightly different take on some things it can also open up the conversation that can be steered in many more directions too.
For those who lack confidence,the Apostle Paul had poor speaking ability, Paul's speech was considered contemptible by some. Romans 10:10. Yet ability or lack of ability in this area did not matter at all. Judge this by how much Paul was loved and how he was able to encourage the brotherhood.
It is the beautiful personal qualities of the person behind the speaking/writing that touches people and encourages them, not some correct grammatical lexicon construction. There will never be occasion where great writing skills on their own surpass the most humble effort made with sincerity and love.
Look on your fridge door if you have kids, any of the most simple offering be it picture or writing by them out of love is treasured, and melts the heart.
Anyone contributing here on this site I think should feel this way regardless of your literacy, as I think we all appreciate anything posted with care, consideration and concern for others and mostly of course with love.

• Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-19 02:11:54

  You would surprised how helpful a few techniques can be:
  
  1. Break longer comments apart with blank lines (hit Enter twice). If a 'section' of your comment cannot be seen in its entirety on one screen, it may be getting too long. That is a clue that it needs to be split with a blank line.
  
  2. Try not to make sentences too long, and if they are getting longer, careful use of commas to avoid run-on sentences can help.
  
  3. Try to keep your sentence structure simple, and write about things you know about and are confident and comfortable discussing.
  
  Very simple things like this can help even an 'average' writer do a better than average job of commenting.

• Reply by Kennedy Dafeakeh on 2018-05-19 02:46:46

  You're right. I often want to check my grammar very carefully, but I realize that it is the spirit of love and truth that binds us that's most important.

  • Reply by Alithia on 2018-05-19 23:16:42

    Could not agree more brother, we are all here for the same reason, motivated by love we want to encourage one another and to bear each others burdens if possible. Just commenting in a helpful way on this forum demonstrates having this motive in the first place, and everything else is excused (Writing abilities) And if that is a picture of you and your baby then you know exactly what I mean by grammar or misspelled words as being of no consequence to the motive and the desire behind them!!!!!

  • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-20 19:34:15

    KD, if you have concerns whether your grammar is right, it can help to compose your post offline, in something like Microsoft Word, then use the spelling and grammar check it has. Once you have your post the way you like, you can cut and paste it here. That can help too if your internet connection is not the most reliable. I have had cases where I typed something here and lost it and had to do it all over again. If you do it offline, you can just cut and paste again if anything goes wrong.

Comment by Kennedy Dafeakeh on 2018-05-19 02:42:59

I totally agree, it would encourage lazy ones like me to comment more. Often I simply click on the upvote instead of commenting and refrain from voting when I disagree or not sure.

It's usually the easy way out to simply let the seemingly "more experienced" ones do all the writing.

This removal will probably motivate more people to engage actively in the conversations.

Thanks to everyone involved with this site, for all your efforts so far.

Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2018-05-19 03:44:34

Sounds fine to me. Even short comments such as "Good point" are encouraging, whereas the thumbs up could be seen as just a talent show all over again.

Comment by John of ARC on 2018-05-19 03:50:46

I think it’s wise to try this, Eric. Thanks for testing it out. Problem with voting (even up-only) as I see it is that

- the voting buttons as opposed to engaging in open discussions may risk causing echo chambers

- some may read the comments with high votes only, to save time, thus risking “popularizing” views

- one may start to compare and compete, forming our way also to how we express ourselves.

- we tend to like what we agree with already. That makes it even more important to get contrary views on the table, and then debate them properly (not simply by voting).

Comment by lazarus on 2018-05-19 05:49:13

Thanks Meleti,
Well done, you see I was looking for a like button, lol, instead of posting a comment.

I might just be repeating what others have already written.

If someone writes a comment. I read it, I might smile, enjoy a point and then I immediately clicked the like button. Then its over.

If I think about it, this person has taken the time out of their day to comment. If I at least give them a thank you, I’m sure that’s better than hitting the (Like)button. I would imagine also they would like to know why, but at least a thank you, would suffice if you really like it.

You can only hope this encourages more communication in a world that is encouraging less by such things as likes, tweets, and emojis. I think there is a place for such things anyway a topic for another day..

Comment by Pekanman on 2018-05-19 07:03:18

Agreed. And updoots for everybody.

I think encouraging more conversation and interaction between members would be great.

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:27:39

  I like your updoots. ?

• Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-20 14:20:49

  (with a nod to Robby the Robot, from Forbidden Planet):
  
  Pardon me, sir, updoots?

  • Reply by Pekanman on 2018-05-20 14:35:07

    Sorry it was a meme a while ago......
    Because trumpets (in a very vague sense) make something of a 'doot' noise, people started referring to the meme by using variations on 'doot'. Some of these are 'updoot' (a variation of 'upvote')
    So instead of up votes I said updoots.
    
    
    Yes even though I'm middle age I'm still juvenile at heart.
    
    ?

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-20 14:44:37

    Great movie. Would love to see a remake, though they'd probably ruin it. Another one was the original, The Day the Earth Stood Still.

    • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-20 15:20:50

      Guess it was on my mind, since I watched it again recently. Though not a perfect movie, its concepts were decades ahead of its time, and influenced many other sci-fi works. (As a recent example, on Babylon 5, the Great Machine run by Draal was almost exactly like the 20-mile cube in the F.P. movie.)
      
      And interestingly, the moral of the story is that our subconscious thoughts and feelings and motivations can (literally, in the movie) become our own worst enemy. That is still a meaningful message, even to us on this forum.

Comment by pquin7 on 2018-05-19 07:05:38

I think we should remember that whats important is not someones words or opinions, but whether the information is helpful or truthful to the community. The whole liking and voting down draws to much attention on the person who wrote it, and distracts from the main message, All it does is give the writer an ego boost and nothing more.
Remember Paul's words in Romans 12:3-For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

• Reply by Psalmbee on 2018-05-19 19:54:49

  Hi pquin7,
  I Don't quite agree with your statement when you say all it does is give the writer an ego boost and nothing more, to me that's not accurate.
  Maybe some people feel that way, but I think most of us here are modest people
  and couldn't care less about what Meleti called a popularity contest. On the other hand if someone made a comment that received a lot of thumbs up votes then they deserved it because it made good sense and rung true in the hearts of many and that's more how I would describe the folks on this site.

  • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-19 20:15:03

    Psalmbee, I understand what you're saying. Look at it this way. Consider that this site is visited by a lot of ex JW and people on their way out. For them, they were (or are) judged as to how "good" a Christian they are based on the number of hours they report on a piece of paper. That one number alone is almost their entire status and life within the JW community. Their whole life reduced to a number. Do we really want to be reduced to a number here too? There is a verse somewhere that says, "I have hope of better things for you." We can do better than that.
    
    As for people "deserving" to be "rewarded" by recognition from others, we have to be careful. We are all mere mortals, and our hearts can be swayed by praise and flattery. That could influence how and when we comment, and for what motives. But if our ultimate goal is to find and understand the truth, it's important not to be unduly influenced, whether by flattery or vanity or any other emotions that are not relevant to a search for the truth.
    
    To make a simplistic illustration, if we are certain that 2+2=4, we don't need cheerleaders on the sidelines going, "attaboy, great job!" Either what we said was true, or it isn't. Praise from others won't change that.
    
    The only major downside I see to not voting is that if a lot people write replies, more so than they did before, the accumulated replies to an article could become lengthy, and maybe discourage people from reading them (or, reading them again) after a few days.
    
    I kind of do wish voting could be done as vote-up only, or if vote-down were allowed, that it would mandate an written explanation. But as Eric has mentioned elsewhere, there are technical reasons why the site can't be "fine-tuned" in such ways. Perhaps that will be an option in the future, if the creators of Word Press update its capabilities.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-20 08:10:55

      Hi Robert and everyone,
      
      The brothers from the German website bruderinfo-aktuell.de have just written me to tell me about another commenting plugin which allows the site administrator to enable only thumbs up. I could switch to that plugin if the readers want. I would welcome input as to which option the readers would prefer, no voting or only up voting?

      • Reply by Psalmbee on 2018-05-20 09:34:53

        If you want to pull more people up to the "supper table" Meleti, I feel as if you should leave it alone for a little while. Personally I like the other way, but would like to see how this way takes us from here. One thing I always kept in mind is that, whether I got a thumbs up or a thumbs down, the vote came from either a Current JW or an ex JW and could gauge their progression or non progression by the vote. Without the voting system we will be able to gauge progression by comments. Does that make sense to you? Now I know that gauging is like judging and we shouldn't judge, but on the same hand people need to know what we're working with. I mean after all isn't this somewhat of a rescue site, a safe landing field, for those falling away from the destructive cult of the WTBTS.

      • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-20 09:45:46

        I think Psalmbee is right in saying to leave it alone for a while. We should give this change a fair trial, perhaps for a month or so, to be sure that whatever decision is made has some real-world experience behind it. It we change again too soon, we will never know if this way was a good idea or not.

      • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:10:05

        I would like upvoting as I said I'm my email to you Meleti, but I agree with the others that we may as well give this a go and see how we get on for now.
        
        For me, it's very convenient just to upvote when I haven't time to log in and comment. I think I've only used the downvote once or twice and that was when things were a bit heated and I didn't like it. So I see the point made that I should have commented to say what I didn't like. It's a bit scary though!
        
        I never viewed the voting as a popularity contest and it worries me that some may have seen it that way. To me it was reassuring that others got what I was saying, and that I wasn't talking nonsense. ??

    • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:27:00

      Hi Robert,
      Ok I'm jumping in the deep end here.?
      
      You said: "To make a simplistic illustration, if we are certain that 2+2=4, we don’t need cheerleaders on the sidelines going, “attaboy, great job!” Either what we said was true, or it isn’t. Praise from others won’t change that."
      
      This site , I thought , was for us to be able to comment on the articles and throw ideas around to one another. It's not like maths that has a right or wrong answer. Maybe sometimes we might believe what we say with all our heart, but to say that you are certain that it's true seems to be a bit dogmatic. Of course I'm certain there's a Creator but I support the right of you or someone else to believe differently if you wish.
      
      Surely the point of a discussion is to be open to others' thoughts, and to be willing to adjust our view if they can add something for us to think about. Or maybe we will stick to our opinion. Either way, I disagree with your statement that we 'don't need cheerleaders'. People who come to this site and bother to upvote a comment are not cheerleaders. They have their own opinions and I find it very reassuring when others say they understand my comment. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't believe I'm right all the time. I love coming here to read others' views, not to preach mine, although I do occasionally have things to add to the mix.
      
      Anyway, you have often said that you want an explanation if someone disagrees and not a down vote. Here we go then. Be gentle because I hate confrontation. I get the feeling you like it. ?
      
      its just a difference of opinion... No big deal.?
      
      Bye for now
      Martha

      • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-20 12:05:59

        Martha,
        
        When I said we didn't need cheerleaders, I didn't mean we don't need encouragement. If we could take the analogy a little further, literal cheerleaders may encourage us, but at a game, you don't have a conversation with the cheerleaders. All they do is cheer.
        
        Without question, we DO need encouragement. If not, this site wouldn't exist. We want to be right, of course, but we can't be right all the time, and we will never know everything. All we can do is try to do the right thing, and treat others properly.
        
        Just look at this very exchange of words. I don't recall ever having a personal discussion with you before, Martha. Would this have happened in the past, if you could just vote down my post? When voting is removed, we have no choice but to treat each other as people, as individuals who matter and make a difference.
        
        More than anything else, isn't that what every visitor to this site really wants and needs?

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-20 12:51:32

          Thank you both MarthaMartha and Robert for this interchange.

        • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 17:34:36

          Hi again ?
          Ok, I take your point and understand better what you meant.
          I thought you were reducing the conscious decision to give a thumbs up by someone reading a comment and appreciating it, to the actions of cheerleaders who have to support their team no matter what. Not that I know anything about cheerleaders, coming from UK!
          Let's see how this goes then!
          Agape!
          Martha
          PS the reason we haven't had a conversation before is because I've been very quiet for a while. A dear friend died recently that shook me up. I haven't felt up to commenting at all. Also I do tend to be a bit like Old Faithful. I stay quiet for ages then spout like a geyser. ?
          Bye for now

          • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-21 00:00:15

            Martha, I am very sorry you lost your friend. Six years ago, I lost my wife who was truly the best friend I ever had in this world. Once you lose someone close to you, you are never the same again. It 'breaks' you, it 'ruins' you. Believe me, I understand how hard it is.

  • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:04:07

    Hi Psalmbee, I agree with you.

Comment by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 11:35:53

Having read all the comments once again, I've decided to go with the flow and support this new arrangement. ( sounds a bit org-like! Ooh-er?)
It looks like it can only be a positive step.
Thanks everyone! You're all wonderful!

Martha ?

Comment by Smoldering Wick on 2018-05-20 11:44:28

When I first came to this site, I never noticed the commenting feature until accidentally hitting a thumbs up icon. Even then I never used it since I’ve always believed that a conversation of at least two is needed to build a discussion.

While on another site I made up two fictitious characters—“Anonymous Joe” and “Wilderness Sam.” Joe was the guy still going to meetings. Sam had gone, well, into the wilderness of the so-called world. Both were right from their own perspective even when they didn’t agree—kind of why public houses were invented for dartboard and pool table discussions and sufficient tongue-loosening brew to balance the need of always being right with the pain of discovering you were wrong.

So, yes I agree with removing the vote. It draws feelings that get political. That was my main reason for resigning as an elder. I’ve already had my fill of “always being right” while passing judgment on others. Voting is like a cheering section where everyone is driven by the collective feelings of the event without consequence of the long-term outcome. Personally, I’ve learned to live with hurt feelings—but how could I without being hurt personally first before comforting those around me.

I therefore remain silent most of the time while rethinking my conclusions. After all, they are just my present opinion, and that’s how Jesus was so unfairly judged by the majority despite always being right.

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-20 17:38:59

  ? I like that, SW.

Comment by eve04 on 2018-05-20 20:20:16

I agree, we should see how this works for a while. Having a thumb up button could still cause hurt feelings because if your comments never receive a thumbs up but most peoples do, it could have the same outcome of a thumbs down button. I would hate for anyone to have their feelings hurt and stop commenting because I so enjoy EVERYONES comments.

• Reply by Warp Speed on 2018-05-20 21:12:09

  You make a very good point Eve. Only having a thumbs up could still have a discouraging vibe for some if they didn't get a thumbs up on their comments. Either have a thumbs up/down or none at all.

Comment by Psalmbee on 2018-05-20 22:51:55

Just look at it this way:

Now you must speak up, to give a thumbs up, and now you must explain your frown, to give a thumbs down.

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-22 08:46:13

Actually, the whole idea started with a recommendation from one of our regular commenters. I passed it around those in our weekly online study group and the response was mixed but the majority were inclined to try disabling it. I'm glad the results have been positive and again am reminded that the Spirit works through all in the congregation, not just a few. If the Organization hadn't centralized under Rutherford, who knows where it might have gone if it had allowed the free flow of the spirit. But then men would have not been able to govern, would they? The rulership of men verses the guiding power of the spirit...hmmm. Like trying to mix oil and water.