2018, May 21 – May 27, Our Christian Life and Ministry

Comment by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-21 13:11:34

Well done Tadua.
The misapplication of this event makes my blood boil.
Remember the illustration in a study watchtower of the elderly sister looking into an empty fridge, then giving money to the WWW contribution box?
I don’t know how they dare to do it.

• Reply by eve04 on 2018-05-21 23:07:54

  Martha,
  I remember that illustration. If the Org gave out of their treasury chest this sisters fridge should not have been empty. When do they really help those in need? But we are constantly being told to give. My niece needed help, and she was not even a member of the Catholic Church but they gave her a check to help her pay her rent. Never heard of the Org doing that. The rank in file pay for everything, from feeding the pioneers, natural disasters, construction sites, etc. No money ever comes directly out of the pockets of from New York.

  • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-22 07:16:35

    It starts to sound like an elaborate con trick, Eve.
    
    That illustration made me realise how far from Jesus' teachings this organisation has strayed. Also, how hoodwinked are those that didn't bat an eyelid at the implication that a widow should go hungry to give money to the organisation?
    
    Shocking.

    • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-22 09:11:48

      Didn't Jesus say once that a time would come when those putting you to death would believe they were performing the will of God? I need to go research and find that verse, but the WT attitude about this seems awfully similar.
      
      ...
      
      OK, found it. John 16:2-3:
      
      Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.

Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2018-05-21 13:25:55

I was discussing earlier today, how tame the CLAM meetings have become. This is just another occasion where those who plan the highlights pick out the one aspect they think they cannot get wrong, that none of the R & F will argue with, and succeed in feeding us with nothing we did not already know.
Que Lastima ! Sorry no accents on my Spanish.
Thank you for your list Tadua, modest minds think alike !

• Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-21 14:18:11

  ¡Lo siento, qué lástima! indeed. You are bringing back memories of my high school Spanish class, 50 years ago. Whew, am I that old?

  • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2018-05-24 11:46:05

    Nearly as old as me, by the sound of it !

Comment by Bernardbooks on 2018-05-22 04:06:21

Jesus disciples had just recently heard him tell the rich man in Mark 10:17-24 to go sell what things he had and give to the poor and he would have treasure in heaven. Jesus didn’t tell him to give to the temple treasury but to the poor. So, in this form of giving that Jesus was emphasizing,
someone like the poor widow that Jesus would later focus his attention on and mention to his disciples in Mark 12:41-44 would have been given the help that she needed and was not receiving from the corrupt religious system there present.
I think it’s clear Jesus wasn’t emphasizing where she was giving her money to but rather the point that she was giving from the heart.

In Luke 12:32,33 Jesus said the same thing to his “little flock” of followers who were to be given the kingdom. He said, “sell your belongings and give gifts to the poor”. To me, this is the system that Jesus emphasized, that of giving to our Christian brothers and sisters in need and like the neighborly Samaritan parable, to all our neighbors that need help.

The more I think of the pattern Jesus set and his followers in the 1st century, such as meeting together in homes and concentrating their giving of money, supplies, time and effort to those in need among their fellow brothers and sisters and those in their communities, it amazes me how wonderfully simple the system is. No expensive buildings of worship needed, no huge factories, branch offices or headquarters needed. The apostle Paul worked so as not to be a burden to his fellow brothers and sisters and still was able to accomplish his ministry.
The organizations vast real estate empire more closely resembles Christendom in later centuries than anything seen in the early Christian Era.

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-22 07:27:16

  "The more I think of the pattern Jesus set and his followers in the 1st century, such as meeting together in homes and concentrating their giving of money, supplies, time and effort to those in need among their fellow brothers and sisters and those in their communities, it amazes me how wonderfully simple the system is. No expensive buildings of worship needed, no huge factories, branch offices or headquarters needed. The apostle Paul worked so as not to be a burden to his fellow brothers and sisters and still was able to accomplish his ministry.
  The organizations vast real estate empire more closely resembles Christendom in later centuries than anything seen in the earlY Christian Era."
  
  Well said, gracefulbranches, I agree. I've made the same point to family members but had the objection that the growth couldn't have happened without the organisation. I have no answer for that... Other than if Jesus is in charge we shouldn't worry about how. It doesn't sit well with me that the organisation is being stressed and reinforced as necessary for us to worship properly. It seems to be more a case of protecting their own lifestyle and retaining control.
  
  PS can anyone tell me how to take a quote from a message, and paste it into my message and make it look like a real quote? I can copy/paste but I want it to be in the coloured box like some of you manage to do? Any hints ? Thanks ?

  • Reply by Bernardbooks on 2018-05-22 08:47:30

    I too have had similar comments made in my direction.
    
    Have you noticed that although most witnesses view hearing the governing body speak as hearing Jehovah, (ex. 2017 yearbook p.24 “I feel as if Jehovah were talking to me right in my room when I listen to members of the governing body and their helpers”)
    I have found that I hear certain things they’ll say and it’s like others around me aren’t hearing the same thing.
    
    For example, at the annual meeting last year, Losch said in the dedication talk that numbers and growth don’t mean anything and he even mentioned that there’s other religions that are much larger and have more growth.
    
    At a recent assembly, a branch representative made a comment about not going beyond the things written in the scriptures, and even mentioned about the tradition of wearing a coat.
    
    But I find with these rare types of comments, it’s like very few are hearing them because the traditions and the organization on a pedestal image is so strong in their minds.
    
    I’m sure there are a wide variety of ways to reply to those comments but one thing that I keep in mind is the wheat and weeds illustration and what Jesus said at Luke 18:7,8
    “Certainly, then, will not God cause justice to be done for his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night,
    while he is patient toward them?
    I tell you, he will cause justice to be done to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?”
    
    I find it interesting that Jesus didn’t say organization or religion but “the faith”, which is not a group based finding but only individual, like the wheat in the illustration.

  • Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-22 09:04:31

    Here is my answer to the "growth question". Growth would not have happened without the organization? It is more accurate to say that the *organizational* growth would not have happened without the organization. I know that sounds confusing, but what I mean is that the managerial infrastructure, material wealth and real estate holdings would not have accumulated without an organization to make it happen. In other words, it exists solely to foster and encourage its own growth, at the expense of everyone else.
    
    Kind of like cancer.

    • Reply by Psalmbee on 2018-05-22 12:30:54

      It's a perfect example of an "insidious" growth.
      It's not confusing to me at all Robert. (Is 30:10)!!

Comment by Alithia on 2018-05-22 06:36:59

Tadua the last sentence in your analyses is an accurate description of what is the intention behind the exhortations. And it is working. In my cong one lovely old sister who is in her late eighties gives each pioneer $50.00 at the end of the service year. And this to people who in the meetings routinely walk past ignoring her all or most of the year and do not include her in anyway of their social life or spiritual for that matter too. The poor old sister is trying to be faithful and support the "kingdom work " as best as she thinks she can. Such a pity as she lives such a humble existence with only a meager income for support. She probably will leave her humble estate to the Org when she passe too as she has no family either. Such a pity that the kind of giving Jesus talked about has been hijacked, re-birthed, re-labeled to suit the organisational insatiable appetite for material support. Something Jimmy Swaggart could be associated with not our master Jesus.

Comment by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-22 07:18:35

Ha!
Excellent, Brain.
( I always think of Thunderbirds when I type your name. Do you wear big blue glasses? ?)

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2018-05-22 13:01:13

  ? there are a few 'temples' in our area being sold off too.

Comment by Psalmbee on 2018-05-23 23:38:47

I'm thinking the clam meeting is one night during the week, usually Wed. or Thurs?
And that takes place at the KH? I know the home book study has been done away with.
Was there donations accepted at the book study?

• Reply by Alithia on 2018-05-24 00:09:17

  You bet there was often direction given that there should be a contribution box made available and the brothers made aware about it. Over time though being in peoples houses it sought of went into the background, and when I would check it there were few funds ever deposited into it, but definitely where I have been there was mostly always a contribution box in a prominent spot like on the coffee table or on the kitchen bench..

  • Reply by Psalmbee on 2018-05-24 20:06:08

    Just assuming here, but I would think that they did away with the home book study to get everyone back into the KH where they would feel more compelled to donate, instead of at someone's house. Also they wanted to crack down on the personal mingling taking place.

Comment by Joseph Anton on 2018-05-24 08:09:48

There are three parts to the story of the widow's mite. Jesus condemning the scribes seeking prominence and assets. Walking around the temple well heeled while devouring the houses of destitute widows. Then he points out one of those widows dropping in her last remaining coins to illustrate his first point. Because she needs basically a miracle, and believes this is how to get it. She doesn't 'want' more, as the scribes and Pharisees do, she actually 'needs.' Then Christ's disciples seem to ignore how this illustration has been taught for centuries - they make no comment on how noble the widow is for contributing her last dollars to the cause, but taking a cue from Christ's real lesson they challenge him by drawing his attention to how beautiful the temple is. Urging him to at least acknowledge that the money is going toward something substantial. Christ, in a statement that clearly nullifies our interpretation of the lesson of the widow and her two small coins, remarks that this temple will be destroyed soon. No stone will be left upon stone. The widows coins, along with all the other coins will be captured and banked by someone else essentially.

How this turned into an example of giving our money to a grotesque theocratic dictatorship who will gladly take the title and deed to a widow's home to finance their lakeside television studio is beyond my understanding. We used to make fun of other religious leaders for behaving like this. I can only hope that Christ's lesson on this occasion was prophetic, and spelled doom for any religion who chose to focus on its property instead of its people. Or any people for that matter.,

There sure have been a lot of Kingdom Hall sales recently...

• Reply by Robert-6512 on 2018-05-24 11:58:18

  Something I often thought about in the past regarding other religions I now wonder about WT.
  
  Suppose you went into a KH (really, the building of any religion at all) and told them, "I am willing to come here and listen to what you say, but I will not give you any money for any reason whatsoever. Am I still welcome to be here?"
  
  Their explicit answer will be "of course you are still welcome" but the hidden message is, "no you're not, and if you don't pay, we will make your life a living hell (so to speak)".
  
  In matters of money, WT has made itself a kindred spirit of every other religion in the world.

Comment by mark on 2018-05-25 15:04:49

My family and I were there at the JW KH this week after not being there for over a month. First of all, I had knots in my stomach all evening. I had a few Elders come talk to me but no one else that knew me were brave to come talk to me. My wife was ignored by everyone.. All I can say is " Where is the Love? " Not there.
The meeting was a joke if you know the truth. How can anyone sit there and not see the falsehoods that are being taught, but then I realized that when I didn't know better, I was letting the GB teach me what they wanted me to hear. And now I let the Bible teach me what Jehovah and Jesus wants me to know.

Due to circumstances I need to be there in body for a few more months and then we will cut all ties with False Religion

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2018-05-25 15:09:46

  Good for you, Mark. And so true. I too sat through so much falsehood never seeing it for what it was. I guess it wasn't the right time for the Lord to grant me sight.

  • Reply by mark on 2018-05-25 15:29:54

    Its funny that you say that MV. I was thinking the exact same thing for me today
    " I guess it wasn’t the right time for the Lord to grant me sight."