I asked him to send me a letter with the details of the meeting and he said he would, but then 10 minutes later he called back and told me that no letter would be forthcoming. He was terse on the phone and seemed uncomfortable talking to me. When I asked him for the names of the other elders that would be sitting on the committee, he refused to give them to me. He also declined to provide me with his mailing address, but after several voice mails and texts, responded with a text giving me the Kingdom Hall mailing address and telling me to use that for any correspondence. However, I was able to ascertain his own mailing address by other means, so I decided to cover all the bases and send out a letter to both addresses. To date, he hasn't picked up the registered letter addressed to him.
What follows is the letter sent to the Aldershot congregation body of elders. I've removed any names as I do not wish to target individuals who may only be acting out a sincere, albeit misguided, belief that they are obeying God, just as Jesus foretold at John 16:2.
--------------------------------------------
March 3, 2019
Body of Elders
Aldershot Congreation of Jehovah’s Witnesses
4025 Mainway
Burlington ON L7M 2L7
Gentlemen,
I am writing concerning your summons for me to appear before a judicial committee on the charge of apostasy on April 1, 2019 at 7 PM at the Aldershot Kingdom Hall in Burlington.
I was only a member of your congregation briefly—about a year—and I have not been a member of your congregation since the summer of 2015, nor have I been associating with any other congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses since that time. I have no contact with members of your congregation. So I was initially at a loss to explain this sudden interest in me after such a long time. My only conclusion is that the Canada branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses has either instructed you directly—or more likely, through your Circuit Overseer—to initiate this action.
Having served as an elder myself for over 40 years, it comes as no surprise to me that everything about this flies in the face of written JW.org policy. We all know that Organization oral law supersedes what is written.
For instance, when I asked for the names of those who will serve on the judicial committee, I was tersely denied that knowledge. Yet the elders manual, Shepherd the Flock of God, 2019 edition, gives me the right to know who they are. (See sfl-E 15:2)
Even worse is the fact that the official web site of the Organization tells the whole world in multiple languages that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not shun former members who have chosen to leave. (See “Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Shun Former Members of their Religion?" on JW.org.) Obviously, that is carefully worded PR spin to mislead non-JWs about the true nature of Organization membership, i.e., that “you can check out, but you can never leave.”
Still, since I have not been associating for almost four years, calling me to a hearing to disfellowship me would seem to be a time-wasting formality.
I must therefore conclude that the motivation of the branch office Service Desk lies elsewhere. You have no authority over me, because I do not grant you that authority, but you do exercise authority over the diminishing number of Witnesses who remain faithful to the leaders of the Organization, both local and at headquarters. Like the Sanhedrin who persecuted all who followed Jesus, you fear me and those like me, because we speak truth, and you have no defense against truth other than the rod of punishment in the form of shunning. (John 9:22; 16:1-3; Acts 5:27-33) This is the reason that you will never engage in a Bible discussion with us.
Thus, you are now using what the Organization itself called “A Weapon of Darkness” back in the January 8, 1947 issue of Awake! (p. 27) to keep your remaining followers from learning truth by threatening them with being completely cut off from all their JW family and friends should they have any contact with those like me who back up what we say with Scripture rather than the speculateive, self-serving interpretations of men.
Our Lord Jesus said:
“For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”” (Joh 3:20, 21)
I know you men believe you walk in light, as did I when I served as an elder. However, if you truly ‘come to the light, so that your works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God’, why do you refuse to do these things in the light of day? Why do you hide?
When I asked for information regarding the hearing in writing, I was told that none would be forthcoming. In the secular courts, the accused gets written notification of the specific charges against him and discovery of all accusers, witnesses, and evidence prior to the trial. But this is not done in the case of Witness judicial hearings. Elders are instructed to avoid putting anything in writing, and so the accused is blindsided when he finally sits before the judgment seat. Even during the hearing itself, secrecy is paramount.
According to the latest Elders manual, you have to enforce these restrictions during judicial hearings:
Generally, observers are not allowed. (See 15:12-13, 15.) The chairman…explains that audio or video recordings of the hearing are not permitted. (sfl-E 16:1)
Star Chambers and Kangaroo Courts are known for this type of “justice”, but using techniques that depend on darkness will only continue to bring reproach on Jehovah’s name. In Israel, judicial hearings were public, held at the city gates in the full view and hearing of all entering or leaving the city. (Zec 8:16) The only secret hearing in the Bible where the accused was denied any support, or counsel, or time to prepare a defence was that of Jesus Christ before the Sanhedrin. Not surprisingly, it was marked by the very abuse of authority a transparent process is designed to prevent. (Mark 14:53-65) Which of these patterns does the Organization’s judicial process emulate?
Additionally, depriving the accused of the support of counsel, independent observers, as well as a written or recorded record of the hearing turns the vaunted JW appeal process into a sham as well. 1 Timothy 5:19 states that Christians cannot accept an accusation against an older man except at the mouth of two or three witnesses. An independent observer and/or a recording would constitute two or three witnesses and allow for the possibility of winning an appeal. How can the appeal committee ever decide in favor of the accused if he can only bring one witness (himself) to bear against three older men?
I have nothing to fear from bringing everything into the open, into the light of day, as it were. If you are doing nothing wrong, then neither should you.
If you are to bring all this into the light, then I will need what the secular courts of Canada guarantee: Full disclosure of all evidence to be brought against me, as well as the names of all involved—judges, accusers, witnesses. I will also need to know the specific charges and the Scriptural basis for same. This will allow me to mount a reasonable defence.
You can communicate all this in writing to my mailing address or my email.
If you choose not to comply with these reasonable demands, then I will still attend the hearing, not because I recognize your authority, but to fulfill in some small way the words of our Lord at Luke 12:1.
(Nothing in this letter should be construed to imply that I am formally disassociating myself from the organization. I will have no part in supporting what is a self-serving, harmful, and wholly unscriptural policy.)
I await your response.
Sincerely,
Eric Wilson
--------------------------------------------
Writer's note: I'm a little ticked off with myself for getting the final Bible quote wrong. It was supposed to be Luke 12:1-3. Since Witnesses are not trained to read the context of Bible verses, the elders of Aldershot may well miss the relevance of that reference. We'll see.
Archived Comments
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Comment by kyaecker on 2019-03-11 14:36:53
Excellent Letter with real facts. Thank you for posting it. I guess whether or not you respond the result will be the same, disfellowshipping. That's truly sad. Guilty as charged. Well you said what you needed to but I'm sure it fell on deaf ears.
Comment by James on 2019-03-11 14:43:01
Beautiful and intelligent response to their invitation. They will not respond in writing but will call you again if they don't see you by April fools day.
They are scared of written response and if they they are evasive and vague.
Good to know that they have a team of elders scoring all "apostate's sites, hat a hypocrisy reading apostate materials irrespective of their motive, they ought to hate what is " bad" and focus on the truth if they truly have the "truth".
They are even slow in sending this invite, they must have been planing the best way to silence you and BP but have been at a loss. Whether they disfellowship in in absentia or not, the truth will continue yo prevail and it doesn't stop you from contacts you had with jws in various countries and places.As you rightly wrote $they have no authority over you" so they cannot limit your contacts as disfellowship is not a tag on ones forehead, so you can still interact with others who are not in your congregation.
Have inner peace as no weapon of theirs will have success against true brothers of Christ.Reply by James on 2019-03-11 14:47:28
Bro Eric, I sent mail on blood transfusion, hope you've seen it
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-11 23:25:24
Can you resend it James, please.
Reply by James on 2019-03-12 16:56:32
Done
Comment by DavidinLeeds on 2019-03-11 14:48:30
Excellent Letter I would say cc the Service Desk and the Circuit Overseer. The CO is likely to be one of the three elders unless the branch is sending someone.
Comment by jamesbrown on 2019-03-12 01:57:22
Hi Eric
We have been instructed not to look at apostate litterateurs, and to view it as PORNOGRAPHY, something that Jehovah hates...... Question, who has been looking at so called spiritual pornography?
My brother in law who is an elder said that CO's are asking them if they notice a trend of anyone in the congregation who is voicing their opinion, rather than GB.
He said their CO has told them that speaking against GB is tantamount as sinning against holy spirit, referred to question 2 in the baptism talk.
I love you concluding remarks:
Nothing in this letter should be construed to imply that I am formally disassociating myself from the organization. I will have no part in supporting what is a self-serving, harmful, and wholly unscriptural policy.
A thought just occurred to me, if 2 elders are dead set to dis-fellowship you and the other disagrees with them, then on whose side is the holy spirit???
I read this line of your reasoning:
How should you respond if two elders were to pull you aside to ask you a loaded questions like:
• “Do you believe Jehovah is using the Governing Body to direct his people?”
or
• “Do you accept that the Governing Body is the Faithful Slave?”
or
• “Do you think you know more than the Governing Body?”
Based on the principle of 1 Timothy 5:19, they need two or more witnesses.
The Bible says to avoid “foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights”, and promoting the idea that the Governing Body speaks for God is both foolish and ignorant. (2 Tim. 2:23)
So if they ask us a loaded question, we do not argue, but ask them for justification.
Thinking of you I am sure the others will come in with more comments.Reply by X cult member on 2019-03-12 11:44:24
Hi JB. Is your brother in law in Canada ON? I know many in the JW Ontario region that are voicing their own opinions. It's spreading like wildfire
Reply by jamesbrown on 2019-03-12 22:49:48
Hi X cult member
I live in Australia and its great to hear from you I hope you and your family are doing well.
Take care my brother.
Comment by MarthaMartha on 2019-03-12 06:28:03
Eloquent and powerful words, Eric.
Well done, you gave a good witness for truth, and exposed the hypocrisy of this ‘cuckoo in the nest’ masquerading as God’s organisation.
My thoughts and prayers are with you, you have many friends here and whatever happens, truth will prevail.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-03-12 07:26:15
Superbly put, Eric. I wish you the best and a load of courage, as it will take a lot of strength to present yourself well. May Jehovah and Jesus give you the perception you will need at that hearing.
I do hope you will ensure this letter is easily accessible in the future, as I would love to use much of your reasoning when and if that time comes.
I am in 100% support of you in particular and all you (and others on this site) have done in helping us to reason scripturally on the many dodgy teachings put forward by JW.Org.
Comment by katrina on 2019-03-12 07:30:01
Excellent letter, reminds me of the scripture in Eph 5:11 "and stop sharing in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness rather, expose them for what they are"
Will be thinking of you brother Eric, your love of truth has helped me so very much always encouraging. thank you.
Comment by lazarus on 2019-03-12 08:03:37
Eric, well said.
I think of our Lord as he was rendered Innocent 3 times, from Pilate Herod Pilates wife, and yet they still put him to death.
The trial will be viewed by our Lord. He will guide you with his words.
Like 21: 12 But before any of this happens, they will capture you and persecute you. They’ll send you to synagogues for trial and to prisons for punishment; you’ll stand before kings and government officials for the sake of My name. 13 This will be your opportunity—your opportunity to tell your story. 14 Make up your mind in advance not to plan your strategy for answering their questions, 15 for when the time comes, I will give you the words to say—wise words—which none of your adversaries will be able to answer or argue against.” The Voice Translation.
- ?
Comment by if ever on 2019-03-12 08:24:57
Eric,
When I read your concluding remarks that ended with Luke 12:1, a broad smile grew across my face. For me, Luke 11:53 to Luke 12:3 has sounded into my heart, and has meaning for me. May God's spirit prove to be with you.Reply by Psalmbee on 2019-03-12 10:50:35
Top of the morning to you Eric, the way I see it is they do have a weapon of darkness, but you have a weapon of "Light" and his name is Jesus Christ. With Him, you and Meleti Vivlon present at that meeting, the odds are overwhelmingly stacked in your favor, those guys won't even know what hit them. The light always overpowers the darkness.
Metaphors be with you!
PsalmbeeReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:52:21
"Metaphors be with you". I love it! That one is going in my database. :)
Comment by Warp Speed on 2019-03-12 11:06:06
I wonder why they are even initiating action against you at this late stage of the game?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:51:26
I think it comes down to Proverbs 4:19, WarpSpeed. I don't see the upside for them.
Comment by X cult member on 2019-03-12 12:06:29
Hey Eric. Great letter.
What would happen if you don't attend?
If you do attend, it will be a one sided conversation with the outcome of DFing. They are told not to let you talk much because you are an apostate and you might ensnare one of them by your apostate devilish lies.
Their goal is to make you angry to elicit a bad reaction to prove to themselves that you are a product from Satan. They are EVIL
If it was me, I wouldn't go as I don't acknowledge their authority any more and I know you don't eitherReply by Psalmbee on 2019-03-12 21:34:52
"Their goal is to make you angry to elicit a bad reaction to prove to themselves that you are a product from Satan. "
So true, I was having a conversation with someone just last night almost verbatim.
Meleti is well aware of their demonic tactics, and come hell or high water he's not gonna miss his turn to speak IMO. When they start hearing this guy here at (Lu 12:12) start talking,they shut the meeting down real quick like.
Reply by X cult member on 2019-03-19 11:01:09
I did some research and found out that If you don't attend their hearing, they will dissfellowship you any way
Comment by Search-truth on 2019-03-12 13:07:35
Hey Eric, great letter. I take it there was no response to your letter.. I hope the joke will be on these Elders on April fools.
Kick their butts..
Comment by rusticshore on 2019-03-12 13:12:15
Thanks, Meleti for sharing this with us. You didn't have to do that, but as your letter made clear . . . you desire to bring this matter into the "light," something we all know is not keeping w/the modus operandi of the GB status quo.
Every morsel, such as this inquisitorial-like means of backing you into the corner to DF you reinforces why I left!
Indeed, they are hoping you will just show up, answer a few questions (procedural) and then proceed w/their pre-determined decision to DF you.
It is as you mentioned . . . Just following GB administrative procedure, holy or not!
Whatever happens . . . 2 Cor 12:10.
Your brother,
Johnny . . . BEROEAN.ORGReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:49:40
I'm sure they're thinking as you say, RusticShore, but Lord willing, that is not what they are going to get.
Comment by I am just me on 2019-03-12 13:28:03
It’s all really strange that they would come after you now. Maybe they are bored or would like a good scriptural discussion . Christian love from my family to you and well done on your reply to them. ?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:48:26
I'm wondering if the interest in the Spanish field tipped the balance.
Comment by I am just me on 2019-03-12 14:35:38
Ps. Let us know the outcome would like to be one of the first to give you a greeting and a virtual cup of coffee ???
Reply by Search-truth on 2019-03-12 21:00:27
These are elders following the wicked direction from an organization tightening the grip on anyone who questions them. The event you just mentioned is your que to fade away & never go back..
Comment by Astoriaboy on 2019-03-12 20:40:38
I really know how you feel, Brother Wilson. I just sat through a "marking" talk that I happened to be the subject of. The CO came around and said I had been accused of forming a "meeting" in addition to the Sunday and midweek meeting. The so-called Elders informed him that doing this without approval from the Branch was a violation of "theocratic order. I told him that Jesus said that where two or three are gathered together, there he would be in their midst. He got visibly angry and said he had also heard that some in the congregation had spoken to the body about my spreading "apostate" ideas and self interpreted ideas. I asked him who these individuals were and what the specific accusations were. He responded that knowing that information wasn't necessary. I said it was, because how else was I supposed to defend myself. He then produced a piece of paper with all the names, (so he said), of the friends who gave the elders this info. Two weeks after this confrontation with him the "marking" talk was given. Even prior to his visit I had been threatened, bullied, slandered, and blacklisted by the very same elders who hypocritically call themselves Christians. I'm praying for you, Eric, because I know how it feels. It's the witness of experience, which even our Lord Jesus can testify to.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:47:16
They really have lost all touch with true Christianity, haven't they, AstoriaBoy?
Reply by Astoriaboy on 2019-03-13 12:56:57
I blame the GB for what's happened to this organization. The deliberate isolation of Christ's role in the congregation and the exaltation of their own importance has had much to do with the current situation. The organization has become the "golden calf" around which most witnesses now worship. The "marking" talk was given in a spirit of hatred and anger; not a shred of mercy or compassion. I just moved to Southern California, but I'm sure the letter they send to the new congregation is going to be motivated by the "works of the flesh". I really admire you, Eric, and thank you for opening my eyes to so many wonderful truths, which has softened the pain inflicted on me. The C.O. and three of his cronies tore me to pieces. I'm going to be praying for you, Brother, as you go into the lions den. The procedure of a Judicial Committee is, in itself, a no-win, unscriptural situation, because organizational policy will always overrule sound scriptural arguments. However, "we must enter into the Kingdom through many tribulations", no? Charles
Comment by jamesbrown on 2019-03-12 22:46:43
Hi Eric,
I am in my late 60's, whenever I have an issue with big co-operations (Gas, electrical, telecommunication) I always write or call them and tell them I will expose their ABUSE to the media, how a BIG cooperation is more than happy to ABUSE a senior citizen, and what they are doing in secret, I will expose in public.
I always get justice for my cause.
Eric, I put myself in your position and I asked myself what should I do?
You said in your letter " If you are to bring all this into the light, then I will need what the secular courts of Canada guarantee"
Why not involve the media in your area, for example:
Call the news paper in your area / media, and tell them how a RELIGIOUS CULT is going out of their way to ABUSE a senior citizen who just wished to be left alone.
Dont mention how you feel about their beliefs, just you want to be left alone.
If you get media behind you, then the org. will back down otherwise you will stir a hornets nest, and thats one thing they dont want, another bad publicity.
Eric who knows, just maybe this is what the doctor ordered for the Spanish field to be opened, JW's exposed for their double standered.
Think about it.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-13 08:45:13
Thank, JamesBrown. Already on it. :)
Comment by Truth_seeker on 2019-03-13 11:22:48
Hi Eric,
Don't feel compelled to take part in the meeting for our sake. You don't need to subject yourself to torture, but if you think it will strengthen you, go ahead. Maybe one or more of the three elders will think back some day how right on you were. I wish you the Lord's blessings, however it goes.Reply by Gogetter on 2019-03-13 18:31:06
Greetings Eric,
Well I guess we all knew it was just a matter of time when you gave up your anonymity and I’m sure you have prepared for this as indicated by your letter.
It’s sad in many respects that you couldn’t have stayed undercover and work from within the organization as many are now doing by sending individuals to this site. But you have helped many more than we know.
The Apostate hammer will be used to totally isolate you from all contact of active witnesses as the judicial committee is really the organization’s character assassins used to silence the opposition with just one label APOSTATE!
I know as I have been on both sides of disfellowshipping it is their most effective tool of fear and total compliance.
I realize all of us still in (PIMO) will meet the same end and will learn from how you handle this, so thank you for including us. I respect the fact that you chose your time and circumstances. I sincerely hope you will continue your spiritual activism as you have helped so many!
You can take great comfort in knowing that your good works have not gone
unnoticed by Jesus and his Father Jehovah and that judgment will begin with the house of God and those particularly taking the lead who have themselves become unrepentant apostates with the UN and child abuse scandals.
May the Holy Spirit be with you in the coming days of trial.
Comment by THE DRIFTER on 2019-03-13 22:22:32
Hello Eric,
Been awhile since I dropped in...
Looks like the chickens have come home to roost, ...eh?
If I may, all of the secretly recorded elders meetings I have watched all have two things in common,
1. The judicial body isn’t interested in discussing doctrine.
2. They are only interested in how you view the Governing Body.
Recently I was slyly confronted in the car group by an Elder as to how I viewed the G.B.
Without hesitation I said I believe they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave, the anointed of God by which we receive the proper spiritual food at the proper time and after a slight pregnant pause, I said ...I didn’t understand it but I believed it.
He said, could I explain what I meant? I said sure, ...
I referenced the creation of man from dust, the talking snake, the talking ass, the flood, the account of Jonah staying alive in the belly of the huge beast for three days.
I recounted the walls of Jericho, David’s companions surviving the fiery furnace, and concluded with the very resurrection of Christ.
Silence...
I repeated that I believed all of these accounts and more but didn’t really understand them.
How could I...and then I asked him if he did and if he could explain them to me without the usual talking point, “with God, all things are possible.”
He couldn’t.
I then asked him how he felt about the truth as we know it and teach it.
He said it was!
I then asked if he thought that we would possibly receive new light/understanding that would overturn current belief.
He, without hesitation said it was quite possible and then realized what he just said.
Peace be with you and your decision in going forward.
For the most part, Christ kept silent for he knew at that point, nothing would change.
P.S. It is my understanding that an appeal only serves to examine whether or not the Judicial Committee acted in harmony with procedure and is not concerned with the subject of the appeal.Reply by THE DRIFTER on 2019-03-13 22:33:37
Forgot to include that he also asked if I thought I was smarter than the G.B.
I said that I didn’t think that was really the appropriate question. A more appropriate question was, “Are any of them inspired?”Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-14 11:41:01
I'm sure I'm going to be asked the same question. My response is that it is not about intelligence. Jesus said that truth is hidden from wise and intellectual ones and revealed to babes. What it is about, as was highlighted in one of our study aids, is the ability to read a map. The Governing Body, the elders, and I all have the same map.
Comment by jamesbrown on 2019-03-14 01:32:54
These are some of the comments that a brother António Madaleno penned in a letter of his dissociation to the body of elders:
I know that the brothers will come to regard me as an "apostate," a "mentally ill," a "son of Satan," and "gangrene," simply because I have come to openly disagree with the Pharisaical dictates and wrong doctrines of an elite of men operating as a collective papacy, well in the style of the Catholic Church whom they have so much criticized in the past.
But fortunately I know that my conscience is clear in the eyes of God and His Son Jesus Christ. As Paul said:
“Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal. In fact, I do not even examine myself.
For I am not conscious of anything against myself. But by this I am not proved righteous; the one who examines me is Jehovah.” – 1 Corinthians 4:3, 4
The concept of "organization" has become a 'golden calf' for the Jehovah's Witnesses, while they look upon it as a symbol of salvation and unquestioning obedience, the 'symbolic ark' that will save them through Armageddon.
This amounts to nothing more than idolatry, similar to what happens in other religious groups when they think that their religions, their icons and their saints will save them, forgetting that this role only belongs to the Christ.
The organization has itself said, years ago:
“We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry — be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. (1 Corinthians 10:14; 1 John 5:21)” – The Watchtower, November 1, 1990 p. 26
We have been like puppets in the hands of imperfect men who act as "gods" on earth, commanding at will millions of people and whose unconditional obedience must be maintained at all cost under penalty of "social death", since the law does not allows the maximum penalty: physical death.
It is therefore very hypocritical for the organization itself to write such texts in its publications:
"No one should be compelled to worship God in a way that he finds unacceptable or to choose between religion and family." - Awake! July 2009, p. 29
The same organization that encourages and directs family members to ostracize those who decide to leave it for reasons of conscience and religious divergence, hypocritically publish articles for the public that give the exact opposite image of what happens in it.
I pity the children and teenagers who, like me, were baptised at an age when their emotional and mental training did not adequately enable them to take the baptism, when the consequences of such a step go far beyond an alleged unconditional dedication to God.
Baptism, as currently practised by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, is an unconditional and perpetual dedication to a religious corporation that will do everything to keep them captive, even under the threat of ostracism, so that later, when they really know the past and present of religion, they cannot leave without any penalty.
Finally, I would like to mention that I no longer wish to be contacted by any representative of the Watchtower, whether it be an elder, circuit overseer, or any other with the goal of returning to the organization.
Notice from now on that if there is chatter or slander regarding me, I will activate the legal means to hold the person responsible.
I sincerely hope that the brothers who read this letter will reflect well in your role as parts of a heavy, hard and inflexible gear that have destroyed so many lives.
Do not forget that the plagues that in future fall upon all religions that displease God and misrepresent Him will also fall upon those who served as the principal instruments of these (Rev. 18: 4).
I pray that our Heavenly Father, through His Son, will help you to "awaken" from the manipulation that you have suffered throughout your sojourn in this religion and to help you find the true freedom that is only in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In my case, I am convinced of the words of the apostle Paul:
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” – Romans 8:38, 39
Well Eric, personally speaking you have taught me a lot from the bible, I cannot thank you enough.
Warm Christian love.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-14 11:36:40
Thank you JamesBrown for your encouraging words and for that excellent reasoning backed up by WT references that truly demonstrate the hypocrisy of the organization. These will go in my "keepers" file.
Reply by mailman on 2019-03-18 00:37:15
Hi JamesBrown,
I'd like to share that WT article in 1990 and compare that to another article that our salvation depends on supporting the Governing Body or the Organization.
Hi Eric,
The time has come dear brother. Your reply is genius and made them feel goosebumps. :)
Comment by Nightingale on 2019-03-14 17:36:12
Hello Eric. Very sad to hear that they didn't leave you alone. This so called Christian organization with its cruel and unbiblical policies makes me so angry, I wish my parents never would have opened that door decades ago... Now it's a prison for all of us and there is no easy way out. Anyway, I hope and pray strength for you when you meet them. I personally probably wouldn't meet them but that's a personal decision, maybe some good will come out of it. And that idea going public with how this loving religion is treating people who have done nothing bad might be a good idea.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-14 19:19:19
Thanks Nightingale
Comment by jamesbrown on 2019-03-14 21:10:42
I was going through some older posts and came across this conversation:
Meleti Vivlon on August 29, 2017 at 7:36 am
2 Corinthians 11: 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light.
15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.
The question is, how exactly does Satan carry this out? How does he manipulate the minds of some so that they mislead others and serve as his ministers?
SeasonsOfGrace on August 29, 2017 at 9:25 am
Hi Meleti,
I think this would be a great discussion to have... Everyone has their personal opinions but are there scriptures that can clearly point to:
How does Satan manipulate and mislead?
Meleti Vivlon on August 29, 2017 at 9:48 am
I agree. I’ll see about opening a topic on this and see where the comments take us.
Well Eric when the dust settles down and your head is clear, you might like to tackle this topic, by then you will see clearer how far Satan has gone into blinding his followers.
Warm Christian loveReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-03-15 10:51:35
I'd forgotten abouut that one. It would still make a good topic. I'll see what I can do.
Comment by messenger on 2019-03-15 03:07:32
Hello Eric,
If I were you Eric the only courtesy I might extend to your elders is to tell them you are not interested in discussing scriptural matters with them, or your actions. You have scriptural president in that our Lord did the same. He and his apostles were dragged before courts by officials that had governing authority over all citizens, with the POWER to do so. WT has no such authority or power.
As for making Jehovah's name look bad through actions of WT or congregation members, that's misconception spread to the congregation by Watchtower. No one except JWS,maybe ex-JWs, and possibly some who have studied give any thought to WT or its members. Most educated Christians consider JWS and WT a cult. And the rest of the population isn't even thinking about them, or if giving them any thought don't care because they do not associated JWs with God.
WT and it's elders are afraid of lawsuits. Even though no one, as far as I know, has ever won a lawsuit against WT for disfellowshipping members, WT has been sued for that.
According to WT policy you will be disfellowshipped merely for the comments you've made on this site, as will most posters if they are also discovered by WT.
Per a recent JWSURVEY article WT has started to sue sites owners and Facebook to discover who is posting their published materials WT considers copyright protected. If they believe they hold a legal position their next attempt might be to track down website owners and those who comment against WT to stop them by claiming defamation as a grounds.
Long and short of it, I wouldn't give WT or its elders anything but a hello. I won't even let them pass my front door, nor will I pass theirs as I view them as apostate. And that hello I will offer is more than they are going to give you once they disfellowship you.
Take care Eric. You are losing nothing and have gained everything. The only judge is Christ. Your elders and WT are the ones in a dangerous position.
Comment by messenger on 2019-03-15 04:31:05
Dissent against God exists. Yet WT operates as if it feels it can abolish dissent against WT.
If it is not WT that condemns everything else in this world as unholy that is considered holy by others, except those things WT declares as holy, then who else is following that practice to a greater degree than WT is? And if no one else is then are we to see a greater "Man of Lawlessness", as described in this scripture?
2 Thessolonians 2:4
It is because I think not that I have no time for WT, discussing its policies and beliefs with its members or my actions in any corporate conversation or judicial committees of JWS. WT to me just is not important, except to warn others about so they will not to be judged by Christ for supporting its apostasy.
Comment by messenger on 2019-03-17 20:22:15
Below this comment I remember making a statement to Eric that I have given thought to, troubling thoughts to, and so now I wish to retract it. I told Eric that he was losing nothing and gaining everything, despite the fact I do not know the particulars of Eric's personal life. But I do know he was a Witness for more than 40 years.
Here is my JW background. Maybe it will show why I at first made that statement, and why it was wrong. Until I was 6 years old I was raised by grandparents who took me to the Hall back in the 1950's. I didn't learn much doctrine as a 4 and 5 year old. After I moved back with my mother, who was completely non-religious, I had no exposure to any religious faith. Then at twenty three years of age I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses and was baptized, serving as a believing Witness for about 40 years, as Eric did.
During that time I made many friends and enjoyed many positive experiences. One of those was meeting my first wife, who realistically happens to be the nicest human I have ever met. We had 4 kids together. All of them got baptized as Jehovah's Witnesses. All of them have since stopped believing in WT, even before I did. And they all voluntarily left without getting disfellowshipped or. through formal dissociation.
After 8 years as a bachelor I married another Witnesses sister. She is a staunch WT believing Witness. She knows I believe WT is apostate, and because of that I choose not to support it or attend its meetings. One of my current wife's sons is a JW. He is also the biggest and worst thief and liar I have ever met. Therefore even if I was still a Witness I would not associate with him. I also am not associating with friends at my local hall, since I don't attend. The only association I have other than occasionally meeting a friend in public for a brief conversation is with my wife. And my wife will support me whether I am disfellowshipped or not. So, one reason my statement is wrong is because I DON'T KNOW Eric's personal circumstances. I only know mine. And his might be far different than mine. But there is another reason.
On another page Psalmbee reminded me that when I knocked on doors as a Jehovah's Witness I didn't represent Christ. That's incorrect. It might have been true for Psalmbee, but it wasn't true with me. When I was baptized by Jehovah's Witnesses; when I went into field service as a JW; and always when I taught and do teach the Bible I represent Christ. I didn't get baptized to represent WT. I don't teach the Bible to get everlasting life. I always did that to serve God. (And who here can say that Eric didn't always do it for that reason also?)
There is a love and camaraderie that develops between people who do that together. Going through a formal inquisition by comrades you represented God alongside, and being declared an apostate against God by them can be a terribly emotionally hurtful experience, even when we have grown beyond the beliefs of the group.Reply by messenger on 2019-03-17 20:25:49
Let me just add my first wife died in 2009,since you might wonder why I got married a second time.
Reply by huang on 2019-03-24 07:48:54
Hi Eric, I went through JC hearings past 2 weeks. Elders used these scriptures to try to nail me with charges of creating divisions using smooth talk and flattering speech.
Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.+ 18 For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattering speech they seduce the hearts of unsuspecting ones.+
I replied i wasn't a smooth talker nor gave flattering speeches and where are those stumbled by me,? Still in the congregation? What's the body count? At any rate, scriptures say " keep your eye on those" not disfellowship them to which one elder replied it was the first step.
Finally, as I agreed not to share my alternate views anymore since I was convincing no one they decided they would not disfellowship me but impose judicial reproof meaning no answering at the wt study meeting. Gotta try harder to get disfellowshiped
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-03-28 10:05:09
May I wish you all the best for Monday.
With gratitude for all you have done.
Comment by MarthaMartha on 2019-04-01 08:58:16
Thinking of you today Eric, and hoping all goes as well as you would wish and that you get a chance to speak for the real truth.
No matter what happens, you will always have friends here and grateful thanks for all your work so far.
Sisterly hugs. ?
Comment by I am just me on 2019-04-02 02:03:38
Just wanted to say good morning and I hope everything went just as you wanted it to last night. ☕️?
Comment by Chet on 2019-04-22 09:19:09
I know this is a bit in arrears, but just sending support.
My overall impression is that the JW organization is on the ropes. They seem to be demanding loyalty at every turn while including less and less in the way of scriptural content in their writings. Every visible sign would indicate that they are in trouble financially and I suspect we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg.
I bring this up, because their actions are having less and less effect upon fewer and fewer people. There will come a tipping point when they have disfellowshipped so many people that it becomes meaningless. I think we are close to that point now.
Such actions as your summons are the actions of a cornered and frightened animal, lashing out and trying to vainly to control a situation that they cannot possibly control. Every day, their credibility declines and their influence reduces. I believe they will persist, but will turn into a very small sect with few meeting places.
Just look at how quickly their fortunes have changed. Only a few years ago, they were building like mad and talking expansion. Now they are selling the kingdom halls they seized, probably in order to simply keep the lights on, so to speak. They've built up a culture of building projects and busy work, but that attraction will lose its luster fast when the nearest kingdom hall is an hour's drive away.
For the moment, I remain in good standing, and hope to remain so only because I want to maintain ties to my family. However, I really doubt that it will matter al that much going forward. The significance of these judicial actions is quickly diminishing to nearly zero. Soon, it will be zero.
Comment by Decepti on 2019-04-30 13:09:34
I know this is a bit late for a comment, but I wanted to extend my best wishes to you and hope that this judicial committee (JC) went in your favour. Your written response was excellent, and I am certain that any responses you may have given at the JC were just as well thought out, and stated clearly and objectively. Regardless though, I am also equally certain that anything you stated at the JC fell on the deaf ears of "company men" who are there to enforce misguided and harmful practices, policies and procedures of failing corporation. Agape.