I was just reading 2 Corinthians where Paul talks about being afflicted with a thorn in the flesh. Do you remember that part? As a Jehovah’s Witness, I was taught that he was likely referring to his bad eyesight. I never liked that interpretation. It just seemed too pat. After all, his bad eyesight was no secret, so why not just come out and say so?
Why the secrecy? There is always a purpose to everything written in Scripture.
It seems to me that if we try to figure out what the “thorn in the flesh” was, we are missing the point of the passage and robbing Paul’s message of much of its power.
One can easily imagine the irritation of having a thorn in one’s flesh, especially if you can’t pluck it out. By using this metaphor and keeping his own thorn in the flesh a secret, Paul allows us to empathize with him. Like Paul, we are all striving in our own way to live up to the calling of being children of God, and like Paul, we all have obstacles that hinder us. Why does our Lord allow such hinderances?
Paul explains:
“…I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” (2 Corinthians 12:7-10 BSB)
The word “weakness” here is from the Greek word astheneia; meaning literally, “without strength”; and it carries a particular connotation, specifically that of an aliment which deprives you of enjoying or accomplishing whatever it is that you like to do.
We’ve all been so sick that the mere thought of doing something, even something we really like to do, is just too overwhelming. That is the weakness of which Paul speaks.
Let us not worry about what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. Let us not defeat the intention and power of this counsel. Better we don’t know. That way we can apply it to our own lives when something afflicts us repeatedly like a thorn in our flesh.
For example, do you suffer from some chronic temptation, like an alcoholic who hasn’t had a drink in years, but every day must fight the desire to give in and have “just one drink”. There is an addictive nature to sin. The Bible says that it “entices us”.
Or is it depression, or other mental or physical health issue?
What about suffering under persecution, like slanderous gossip, insults and hate speech. Many who leave the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses feel beaten down by the shunning they get just for speaking out about injustice within the organization or because they dare to speak the truth to once-trusted friends. Often the shunning is accompanied by hateful words and outright lies.
Whatever your thorn in the flesh may be, it can appear as if an “angel of Satan”—literally, a messenger from the resister—is plaguing you.
Can you now see the value of not knowing Paul’s specific problem?
If a man of Paul’s faith and stature can be brought down to a weak state by some thorn in the flesh, then so can you and I.
If some angel of Satan is robbing you of your joy of life; if you are asking the Lord to cut out the thorn; then you can take comfort in the fact that what he said to Paul, he is also saying to you:
“My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.”
This will not make sense to a non-Christian. In fact, even many Christians won’t get it because they are taught that if they are good, they go to heaven, or in the case of some religions, like Witnesses, they will live on earth. I mean, if the hope is just to live forever in heaven or on earth, frolicking around in an idyllic paradise, then why do we need to suffer? What is gained? Why do we need to be brought so low that only the strength of the Lord can sustain us? Is this some sort of weird power trip of the Lord? Is Jesus saying, “I just want you to realize how much you need me, okay? I don’t like to be taken for granted.”
I don’t think so.
You see, if we are simply being granted the gift of life, there should be no need for such trials and tests. We don’t earn the right to life. It is a gift. If you give someone a gift, you don’t make them pass some test before you hand it over. However, if you’re preparing someone for a special task; if you’re trying to train them so they can qualify for some position of authority, then such testing makes sense.
This requires us to understand what it truly means to be a child of God within the Christian context. Only then can we grasp the real and wonderful scope of Jesus’ words: “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness”, only then can we get an inkling of what it means.
Paul next says:
“Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”
How to explain this…?
Moses was ordained to lead the entire nation of Israel to the promised land. At the age of 40, he had the education and position to do so. At least he thought so. And yet God did not support him. He wasn’t ready. He still lacked the most important characteristic for the job. He couldn’t have realized it then, but eventually, he was to given godlike status, performing some of the most awe-inspiring miracles recorded in the Bible and ruling over millions of individuals.
If Yahweh or Yehovah was to invest such power in a single man, he had to be sure such power would not corrupt him. Moses needed to be brought down a peg, to use the modern saying. His attempt at revolution failed before it even got off the ground, and he was sent packing, tail between his legs, running for the desert to save his skin. There, he dwelt for 40 years, no longer a prince of Egypt but just a humble shepherd.
Then, when he was 80 years old, he was so humble that when he was finally commissioned to take the role of Savior of the nation, he refused, feeling he was not up to the task. He had to be pressured to take the role. It has been said that the best ruler is one who must be dragged kicking and screaming into the office of authority.
The hope held out to Christians today is not to frolic around in heaven nor on earth. Yes, the earth will eventually be filled with sinless humans who are again all part of the family of God, but that is not the hope which is being held out to Christians at present.
Our hope was beautifully expressed by the apostle Paul in his letter to the Colossians. Reading from William Barclay’s translation of the New Testament:
“If then you have been raised to life with Christ, your heart must be set on the great realities of that heavenly sphere, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Your constant concern must be with the heavenly realities, not with earthly trivialities. For you died to this world, and now you have entered with Christ into the secret life of God. When Christ, who is your life, comes again for all the world to see, then all the world will see that you too share his glory.” (Colossians 3:1-4)
Like Moses who was chosen to lead God’s people to the promised land, we have the hope of sharing in Christ’s glory as he leads humanity back into the family of God. And like Moses, great power will be entrusted to us to accomplish that task.
Jesus tells us:
“To the victor in the battle of life, and to the man who to the end lives the kind of life I have commanded him to live, I will give authority over the nations. He will shatter them with a rod of iron; they will be smashed like broken pieces of pottery. His authority will be like the authority I received from my Father. And I will give him the morning star.” (Revelation 2:26-28 The New Testament by William Barclay)
Now we can see why Jesus needs us to learn reliance on him and to understand that our strength does not come from within, from a human source, but comes from above. We need to be tested and refined as Moses was, for the task before us is like nothing anyone has ever experienced before.
We need not worry about whether we will be up to the task. Any ability, knowledge, or discernment needed will be given to us at that time. What cannot be given to us is what we bring to the table of our own free will: The learned quality of humility; the tested attribute of reliance on the Father; the will to exercise love for truth and for our fellow human even in the most difficult of circumstances.
These are things we must choose to bring to the Lord’s service ourselves, and we must make these choices day in and day out, often under persecution, while enduring insults and slander. There will be thorns in the flesh from Satan that will weaken us, but it is then, in that weakened state, that Christ’s power works to make us strong.
So, if you have a thorn in the flesh, rejoice in it.
Say, as Paul said, “for the sake of the Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults and hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Zacheus on 2020-08-05 21:25:17
mine is the complete denial of intimacy from the simplest level of sharing a coffee and gentle conversation (everything I say i answered with a one word comment or criticism from most minor to a wt based statement right across the spectrum to no physical. She left the bedroom in 2014 to sleep in the spare room refuses counselling or on one occasion bullied the counsellor (who I warned might happen) to tears.
Everything is wt, wt, wt. We have a son going through a marital bust up and she never phones him. Never invites anyone home, no social life. If we go out for a meal it is no convo and god help me if i notice ie glance at a waitress or any other female anywhere.
Thelonger and deeper she has gone into the wt the worse it is becoming. I keep a busy life with hobbies, cycling, and so on but bedtime is just reading and lonliness.
Anyone who has discussions with a jw partner and still has sex to put it bluntly you are a mile in front of this cold war.
Why do i stay we have adult handicapped offspring lives with us and as long as I breath i will give them the life they deserve and the house that she goes through periods of wheinging about with open complaining about others homes being better, is, paid for and is large enough to allow space for us to move and avoid each the other. Yes there is clutter not all mine either but her jw friends have super neat 'display' homes as theyn have NO other interests.
As ourlovelydaughter said once on a visit, "Well dad, you know how selfish mum is."
QED
Comment by Chet on 2020-08-05 23:34:38
First: thank you for posting this, Meleti. It has helped to gel some thoughts.
The things I’ve endured throughout my life have been very instructive. I don’t want to bore anyone with the details, but I’ve had my share of thorns in the flesh, and to this day, feel a degree of frustration over some of the more intractable problems which have made my life much different from what I had imagined my future to be when I was an eager and zealous JW lad. I, and many of my peers, imagined a blessed existence with a great marriage, a secure job and a spacious home. It turned out to be a bit more challenging than I could have imagined 50 years ago, and the unrealistic preparation for life that was provided by a Witness upbringing certainly didn’t help matters.
But here I am, at 65 years of age, and I’ve learned much more about life and about reliance upon God than I would have had all of my dreams and expectations panned out as I had hoped.
Having left behind the JWs, I look upon them in fairly benign terms, but there are particular areas In which I feel that they have caused great har, and possibly irreversible harm, as well. By limiting the number of Christians to 144,000, generations of JWs have rejected communion for their entire life. Will these sincere, but misled persons, be eligible for the First Resurrection? Will untold numbers of JWs have made themselves ineligible for the greatest privilege ever offered to humans, because of this Watchtower teaching? I wouldn’t claim to know how Yehovah and Yeshua will deal with this, but I wouldn’t want to have been the person responsible for promoting this teaching, in the first place.
Just before I read this article, a friend and I were discussing another, mutual friend, whom is a PIMO. He’s well into his 70s, sees the flaw in what the JWs have been teaching, but he is held hostage by the fact that he will lose his entire family, if he were to make known his true feelings. My suggestion was that he buy some wine and matzah, and at least privately take communion with Christ. It is a commandment laid upon us by Christ Jesus.
Realizing that I have the prospect of being a part of the Kingdom which helps mankind to recover from its fallen state, lends purpose to my life, purpose which had been lacking up until I came to this realization. God’s original intention was to have the human race live in paradise and enjoy a truly wonderful life. But, as you mention, if that is all we are being prepared for, we can obtain that simply by being redeemed. Undoubtedly, there will be all sorts of people resurrected into that hope. Some will have lived their entire life in ignorance of the Christ, but will still be afforded the opportunity to live as mankind was created to live. There is something more for the Church, the Christian Congregation slated to be part of that Kingdom.
I’m not about to make any bold claims. Whether I am chosen to be part of that arrangement is decided far above my pay grade. Perhaps I will be afforded the privilege of helping, in some way, with the process of restoring matters to their proper state. No matter what, the prospect before me is worth the thorns I have had to endure.
Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-07 13:59:43
That's a strawman argument, JA. I never said that Christians will not live on earth.
Do you think that "the earth will eventually be filled with sinless humans" somehow precludes them as being followers of Christ? Do you think that anyone can be restored to a sinless state and return to the family of God and not recognize Christ as one's saviour?
What I said is that the hope of human life on earth is not being held out to Christians at this time.
Another strawman argument you put in my mouth is that we will be resurrected as non-corporeal beings. Corporeal refers to having a body and Paul makes it clear that we are resurrected with spiritual body rather than a fleshly one.
I don't know what your personal view is, but let's just wait to see if we will live in heaven or on the earth. I tend toward the latter, but no one can say for sure.
But seriously, JA. Watch your tone.Reply by Frankie on 2020-08-11 11:49:48
Hi Eric.
You wrote „I tend toward the latter („Earth“), but no one can say for sure.“ You mentioned the uncertainty very well here. We just don't know for sure. Even the apostle John was not entirely sure:
„Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.„ (1 John 3:2).
However, if we are to see God „as He is“, then we must have a spiritual body. Anyway, those "over whom the second death has no power" will be resurrected in spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:42-44). These spiritual bodies will be without sin at a qualitatively higher level than fleshly body.
In what body was Jesus resurrected? Definitely not in the fleshly body. If not in the fleshly body, then in the spiritual one.
Jesus showed that there are no material restrictions for the spiritual body - he appeared with the door closed, he had a different appearance than before (Mary Magdalene knowing Him very well identified Him only by voice), he could eat and drink (Luke 24:43; Matthew 26:29) and yet time and space for Him were not an obstacle.
I think we should look forward to our spiritual bodies as well as Paul did (2 Cor 5:6-8).
Frankie
Comment by Fani on 2020-08-08 01:43:32
Je ne suis pas sûre de comprendre complètement les idées que tu exposes concernant l'espérance des chrétiens (problème de traduction anglais/français ?)
Tu dis à JA : "je n'ai jamais dit que les CHRÉTIENS ne vivraient pas sur la terre"
Or tu dis aussi : "la terre sera finalement remplie d'humains sans péché qui font à nouveau tous partie de la famille de Dieu, mais CE N'EST PAS L'ESPOIR QUI EST ACTUELLEMENT OFFERT AUX CHRÉTIENS."
Désolée, je ne comprends pas.
Pour ma part, j'espère être un membre du corps de Christ, son assemblée. Pourtant je n'ai aucune aspiration à exercer une autorité pour juger les humains. Je trouve bizarre qu'on me propose quelque chose pour lequel je n'ai aucun désir.
Tu dis : "Vous voyez, si nous recevons simplement le don de la vie, il ne devrait pas y avoir besoin de tels essais et tests. Nous ne gagnons pas le droit à la vie. C'est un cadeau."
Pour Adam et Eve, Dieu leur a fait cadeau de la vie sur terre. Pourtant IL leur a fait passer" un test" (ne pas manger du fruit defendu) pour prouver qu'ils acceptaient les règles de vie de Dieu. Ils montraient ainsi s'ils étaient dignes de ce cadeau.
Si Dieu m'accorde d'être digne du cadeau de la vie sur terre en ayant une relation vraie avec lui et son fils, si je reste sur terre et que Dieu m'accorde de voir sa gloire et celle de son fils, pour l'instant, je trouverai cela merveilleux !
Apocalypse 21:3
[3]Et j`entendis du trône une forte voix qui disait: Voici le tabernacle de Dieu avec les hommes! Il habitera avec eux, et ils seront son peuple, et Dieu lui-même sera avec eux."
J'aspire à être un de ces HUMAINS.
Quoiqu'il en soit, peu m'importe où Dieu me reserve une place, je sais "que Dieu rassasiera le désir de ses créatures" (Ps 145 : 16)
Je voudrais rajouter que j'ai une pensée toute particulière pour Zachée qui endure une situation très triste. Je te souhaite de l'endurance qui finira par aboutir à du soulagement.
Bon courage !
NicoleReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-08 12:21:15
I don't speak French, so I'm relying on the accuracy of the Google translation below in italics.
I am not sure I fully understand the ideas you are presenting regarding the hope of Christians (English / French translation problem?)
You say to JA: "I never said that CHRISTIANS would not live on earth"
But you also say: "The earth will finally be filled with sinless humans who are all once again part of the family of God, but THIS IS NOT THE HOPE THAT IS CURRENTLY OFFERED TO CHRISTIANS."
Sorry I do not understand.
For my part, I hope to be a member of the body of Christ, his congregation. Yet I have no aspiration to exercise authority to judge humans. I find it weird that I am offered something that I have no desire for.
You say, “See, if we just receive the gift of life, there shouldn't be any need for such trials and tests. We don't win the right to life. It's a gift."
For Adam and Eve, God gave them the gift of life on earth. Yet HE gave them "a test" (not to eat the forbidden fruit) to prove that they accepted God's rules of life. They thus showed whether they were worthy of this gift.
If God grant me to be worthy of the gift of life on earth by having a true relationship with him and his son, if I remain on earth and God grant me to see his glory and that of his son, for 'instant, I will find that wonderful!
Revelation 21: 3
[3] And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Behold the tabernacle of God with men! He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. ”
I aspire to be one of those HUMANS.
Anyway, I don't care where God reserves a place for me, I know "that God will satisfy the desire of his creatures" (Ps 145: 16)
I would like to add that I have a very special thought for Zacchaeus who is enduring a very sad situation. I wish you endurance that will eventually lead to relief.
Good luck !
Nicole
I'm putting my answer in boldface to avoid confusion.
The answer to your first question lies in the word "currently".
At Acts 24:15 Paul spoke of only two resurrections, not three. One of the righteous and one of the unrighteous. Christians do not hope to be resurrected as unrighteous. They hope to be declared righteous by God. So while there are two hopes for all humans, either a resurrection to life, or one to judgment, their is only one hope for Christians.
(Ephesians 4:4-6) . . .One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Jesus didn't preach two hopes. He didn't offer another hope for also-rans, a sort of compensation prize for runner-ups. It is not for us to say to God that we don't want he is offering. That would be ungrateful and would show a lack of faith, basically suggesting that we know better that God what would make us happy.
Adam and Eve were not tested. There was no trial. They were given a command. A command it not a test. If a parent tells a child not to touch the hot stove, that is not a test, but a warning. If our understanding is correct, billions will be resurrected in the resurrection of the unrighteous, and to gain the gift of life, they will have to acknowledge and submit to the Christ. That makes them Christians by the definition of the word, but that is not the hope extended to mankind at the moment for those who strive now to follow the Christ. Nevertheless, those who accept the Christ in the New World do so not as a result of a test. There will be a test whoever. After they have accepted the Christ and received the benefits of that acceptance--human life free from sin--there will be an actual test when the Devil and demons are freed from the abyss.
Comment by mattlunsford on 2020-08-09 06:25:14
This comment is off topic to this article but I have discovered some scriptures at Ezekiel 16:48-63 that Brother Russell And his associates believed indicated the restoration of the Sodomites. I found this in Studies in the scriptures vol 1 Ch 6. I cannot find any discussion about these in WT library. The reasoning by Russell is that the Sodomites died without knowledge of the only name whereby we must be saved. They will need to be resurrected and taught the truth and the be judged having full knowledge. 1Tim 2:4 Matt 11:24 Captives in verse 53 is interpreted to mean captivity in death since God had destroyed them all many years before Ezekiel wrote these words. Jesus came to proclaim liberty to the captives. Luke 4:18 Ezekiel 16:48-63 also mentions the Samaritans and is addressed to the nation of Israel indicating their future restoration. The nation Israel was the most blameworthy since they had greater knowledge and acted more wickedly than Sodom. I thought this was interesting and reveals Jehovahs endless mercy even on those he temporarily removed by destruction.
Reply by Frankie on 2020-08-11 14:01:28
Hi mattlunsford.
I think this reasoning is very good. You presented interesting connection between Ezekiel 16:48-63 and Luke 4:18. I also think that verse 1 Timothy 2: 4 (perhaps also John 17: 3) is important to apply to the time before Jesus Christ - I think brother Russell had some good ideas that unfortunately left the present GB.
WT tends to solve issues of life and death in cases such as these Sodomites, Adam and Eve, Judas, Capernaum or unbelieving Jews ("this generation" - Matt 12:41) in the time of Jesus, who will be condemned by the men of Nineveh. Maybe it's based on their obsession with the alleged billions of deaths during Armageddon.
In such cases, Jesus often used figurative representations and parables. Will the camel go through the eye of a needle (Matt 19:24-26)? No. So could we say that no rich person would enter the kingdom of heaven? No, because "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Verse Matt 11:24 is preceded by verse 23, which speaks of the condemnation of Capernaum. Will the people of Capernaum be overthrown in Hades (in other translations "the place of the dead" or "hell") and destroyed forever? Image and comparison can hardly be called as definitive sentence. We should always keep in mind the Matt 19:26.
In general, we are not at all able to decide who should live and who should die. We must not judge, not even hypothetically. This is not our business as Christians, because Jehovah will judge all through Jesus Christ (Acts 17:31; Rev 20: 11-12). May all people be saved (1 Timothy 2: 4).
Frankie
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-09 11:15:03
That passage from Ezequiel is very powerful and moving. Thank you for sharing that and bringing it to our attention.
Comment by Jack on 2020-08-09 12:19:31
In the film Pirates of the Caribbean- At World's End there is a scene where Jack Sparrow is condemned to Davy Jones Locker, a living death.
Watchtower's shunning policy condemns many to a kind of living deathReply by Jack on 2020-08-09 12:22:53
where family and friends no longer call.
A thorn in the flesh for sure.
Comment by Jack on 2020-08-10 17:16:45
Jesus had a thorn in the flesh.
He knew he would die a liar and blasphemer.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-10 17:22:26
Do you mean the he would die as a falsely accused liar and blasphemer?
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-10 17:30:14
Yes.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-10 17:42:55
It is for this that Christ asked his Father that the cup he was about to drink may be removed from him.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-10 17:48:38
It would be against the very fiber of his being to be accused of such.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-10 18:56:24
Is there an article on this site about Jesus himself outside of what the Watchtower teaches?
What use is thereReply by Jack on 2020-08-10 18:57:41
in what they teach?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-11 10:24:20
https://beroeans.net/category/jesus-christ/
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 14:05:32
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The Logos in the OT
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-11 14:11:02
Hi Jack. Thank you for listing those scriptures. It becomes clear from those verses that the Word or Logos is distinct from the Father. Much obliged.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 14:21:53
The Logos is distinct from the Father, he is also our creator.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 14:24:29
As he said to Mary at the tomb,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God
The Logos is not equal to the Father.Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 15:32:41
John 1 brings Genesis 1 full circle.
John 1 cements itself to Genesis 1.Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 15:43:01
If we allow the Bible to explain itself then there is no other explanation. Either Jesus created all things as in Genesis 1 or he did not.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 16:33:01
This is not thinking outside the box. It is thinking INSIDE the box of the Lord.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 17:41:15
(Isaiah 45:18) 18 For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The Son does nothing without the Father. What the Son does is what the Father has directed. In the Father's love for His Son he has directed that His Son be all things for all time. Creator and Savior. God but not God Almighty.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-11 17:36:21
Are you saying that Yehovah is not the creator?
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 17:46:24
I am saying that the Logos created all things but without his Father he could create nothing.
Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 17:58:21
Is this not the plain reading of Christ's teachings? He is Lord over all
things but for the Father who is THE GOD of all including the Son.Reply by Jack on 2020-08-11 18:29:21
Purity, purity, purity is this what Christ taught? I ask because it is what the Watchtower teaches.
Did Christ teach purity or love?
Comment by Frankie on 2020-08-11 11:46:29
Thank you Eric for very good video and for interesting views. I’d like to share some thoughts:
The Thorn
You very well generalized the meaning of word „thorn“ as weakness. I know that psychical pain is often much worse than physical pain. All the more so if it is caused by our loved ones. Such a "thorn" hurts a lot (may the Lord help Zacheus and others in their suffering).
If our Lord allows my suffering, it is not meaningless. After all, God is love and Jesus is his true image (2 Cor 4:4). Our Lord will not harm me. He sees me every minute and raises me (and I really need His upbringing - Rev 3:19) and teaches me to be humble.
If I suffer mentally, I will tell Him about my pain, because if none of the people understands me, my Lord, who knows me perfectly, will understand and comfort me.
When I am on my knees and no longer able to act using my strength, then I will fully realize His power when He lifts me up. Then I feel the power that is behind me - and then I am incredibly strong, not from my strength, but from the Lord’s:
„ .... Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.“ (2 Cor 12:9-10).
And we can still look at our Lord’s example (Luke 22:42-44; Heb 5:7-8).
Testing Christians
I also think that this testing is necessary. There is another strong scripture, which defines a special task for Christians, whether in heaven or on Earth, whether for those in 1st century or for us:
„Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!“ (1 Cor 6:2-3)
Paul hereby addresses the Corinthians and through them all Christians. Christians are „the saints“, who have sanctified themselves with the Lamb's blood (1 Peter 1:18-19; Rev 7:14). I also think we will judge (but not only giving some sentence) or administer the matters of other humans living after Armageddon on Earth, and also some matters not only on Earth. I agree with your view - “Any ability, knowledge, or discernment needed will be given to us at that time.”
But we will surely know this only when the Lord comes. Anyway, I will be grateful for any task (and anywhere) that will be given to me.
Love to all, Frankie.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-08-11 14:04:42
I completely agree, Frankie.
Comment by a watcher on 2022-11-15 20:55:48
Depression.