No One Knows the Day or Hour—Until Now

Comment by imjustasking on 2013-11-03 18:02:12

In the same vein, it is remarkable that Jesus, THE greatest of all the prophets, the SON of God with an unparalleled level of understanding of the scriptures, backed up by Holy Spirit failed to calculate the date of his enthronement as 1914 by using the prophecies from Daniel in the same way Russell used them.
Would it be fair to conclude that Jesus' failure to calculate his own enthronement shows that Russell had a better grasp of the 'truth' than he (Jesus) did? So how is it, that Russell managed to do what the Son of God failed to do?
But the Society in their defence could use the reasoning they employed in a Watchtower of 1968....
This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”! ( w68 8/15 p. 499 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975)
Ah, the Society you've just got to love their winsome words!!
NB- I have been following this forum for some time and I've really enjoyed the quality of the articles and comments from the Brothers. It has been enlightening and invigorating to arrive at the same conclusions that you have arrived at. Hopefully it will be Jesus' will that I can add a small voice to the 'lions' that roar on this forum!!

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-03 23:01:57

  That is such an obvious hole in the logic of the 1914 doctrine, and yet I never considered it before. Thank you for sharing that with us. You are quite right. The input from so many different minds, seeking both knowledge and understanding under holy spirit, is invigorating.

• Reply by Anointed1 on 2014-05-22 09:02:41

  The fact that Jesus didnt mention the date of his enthronement doesnt mean that he failed to calculate it in relation to Daniels prophechy. He said to his disciples that he had much to teach them but they were not able to bear such information at present. Infact when Jesus tried to talk about going away (to heaven) the disciples were completely clueless as to his meaning.
  Maybe you could question why the Jewish people didnt question why the prophecy of end of gentile times did not tally with prophecy of Messiah's appearance? Who knows maybe they did but were unable to conclusively answer.
  i suppose we are in a similar boat today trying to see how it all fits together but are unable at present to conclusively answer.
  i think the point is that whilst praying for bleesing of holy spirit,we keep on looking and keep on searching.

  • Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-05-22 10:26:02

    Maybe you could question why the Jewish people didnt question why the prophecy of end of gentile times did not tally with prophecy of Messiah’s appearance? Who knows maybe they did but were unable to conclusively answer.
    I would think that the simple answer to this would be that the prophecy hadn't yet been uttered. Jesus himself was the first to mention it as recorded at Luke 21:24. It is then possibly echoed in the Revelation to John (Rev 11:2).

Comment by Eddie on 2013-11-03 19:39:26

WT 75 ,1/1, 'NO ADVANCE DATE TO BE GIVEN'
"In Noah’s time he was told, one week before the floodwaters fell, to take into the ark the specimens of the various animals that were to be preserved. (Gen. 7:1-16) But this does not prove that there would be advance notice in our time as to the exact day of Christ’s “coming” to destroy this present system of things. Back there Noah obviously had to know when to begin taking the animals into the place of safety. If he took them in too soon, when, perhaps, it seemed according to his calculation that the end was immediate, it would draw unduly on the stock of foodstuffs he had stored in the ark. On the other hand, if the flood came suddenly without warning, Noah could not have gathered the animals into the ark in time. The advance notice God gave him was very short, but necessary, and sufficient to accomplish God’s purpose.
That even the disciples of Jesus Christ, true Christians on earth, will be unaware beforehand of the precise time of Christ’s “coming” in this executional sense is shown by what he said as recorded at Matthew 24:42-44. Note that these words were not directed to the world in general. They were addressed directly to Christ’s disciples: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.”...END QUOTE
So here according to this Watctower, we wont know THE EXACT DAY AND HOUR, BUT NOTHING WAS EVER SAID ABOUT NOT KNOWING THE EXACT YEAR!!.
Also since 1975, it will be 38 YEARS exactly.
WT 04,1/15
"The Israelites well knew that Jehovah had done wonderful things for them. He had fulfilled his promise to their God-fearing forefather Abraham that his offspring would become as numerous as the stars and would take possession of the land of Canaan. Jehovah also told Abraham that his descendants would suffer affliction for 400 years but would return to Canaan “in the fourth generation.”
Noticed the EACH GENERATION WAS 100 YRS! 1914 + 100 yrs = the year 2014
Adams creation in Oct 1, 4026 B.C.E. + the yr 2014 = 6,040 yrs . What does the 40 yrs tell us? That Adam was under a TEST for 40 years in the Garden. 40 is used in the Bible by Jehovah for TESTING AND CLEANSING,(or SIFTING).
"The time it took us to walk from Ka′desh-bar′ne·a until we crossed the Valley of Ze′red was 38 YEARS, until the entire generation of the men of war had perished from the camp, just as Jehovah had sworn to them. Jehovah’s hand was against them to eliminate them from the camp until they had perished." (Deuteronomy 2:14-15)
"This day I will start to put the dread and the fear of you upon all the people under the heavens who hear the report about you. They will be disturbed and will tremble because of you."(Deuteronomy 2:25)
Do you see a PATTERN AND PARALLEL?
2013 Year Text
“Be courageous and strong. . . . Jehovah your God is with you.”—Josh. 1:9.
There was a feeling of excitement in the air! Finally, after 40 years of wandering through a succession of wilderness areas, the Israelites were getting ready to enter the land that Jehovah had promised their forefather Abraham. It was Canaan, “a land good and spacious . . . a land flowing with milk and honey.” Once there, they would “lack nothing.”—Ex. 3:8; Deut. 8:7-9.
There must also have been some feeling of fear and anxiety. Why? Because 40 years earlier, when under the leadership of Moses, the previous generation of Israelites had been in the same situation and had refused to enter the Promised Land...
Jehovah was aware of the situation. So he told Joshua: “Moses my servant is dead; and now get up, cross this Jordan, you and all this people, into the land that I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel. . . . Nobody will take a firm stand before you all the days of your life. . . . Be courageous and strong, for you are the one who will cause this people to inherit the land that I swore to their forefathers to give to them.” Twice more God urged: “Be courageous and strong.” (Josh. 1:2-7, 9) Acting on Jehovah’s instructions, Joshua told the Israelite warriors to prepare to cross the Jordan River in three days. How did they react? They affirmed their support of Joshua’s command and repeated to him the words: “Be courageous and strong.”—Josh. 1:10-18.
Do you see any parallels between the situation of the Israelites back then and that of Jehovah’s people today? We too are poised to enter a land that Jehovah has promised—a new world where “righteousness is to dwell.” (2 Pet. 3:13) We too face formidable foes—“the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places” and their earthly cohorts—all bent on stopping Jehovah’s people from attaining their goal. (Eph. 6:12) Still to come is a “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now” and the “great and very fear-inspiring” day of Jehovah."
Please stop murmering AGAINST JEHOVAHS FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE and its Governing Body. You only have ONE LIFE TO LIVE. Once this Great Tribulation hits, it will be all to late to turn your ways and attitudes.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-03 23:31:50

  Hi Eddie,
  I see parallels in many things, but we are just talking about more human speculation, aren't we? If you wish to follow men over the Christ and ignore the plan counsel from God's word, that is your right. If you wish to believe you can know the day and hour by decoding the word of God using imagined parallels and so-called prophetic anti-types, ignoring the last 140 years of failures in this endeavor, then go right ahead.

  • Reply by Eddie on 2013-11-04 00:09:42

    The last 140 yrs as YOU PUT IT has been a TESTING AND SIFTING PROCESS, to the shocking surprise of MANY. And the SO-CALLED FAILURES of the Governing Body in charge, have only benifited those to who are not ANYMORE PART OF THIS ORG.
    John 6:52-61 says, "Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 These things he said as he was teaching in public assembly at Ca·per′na·um.
    60 Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble YOU?"
    And so the CLEANING PROCESS CONTINUES! DOES SOME NEW TEACHING STUMBLE YOU ALL?? LOL!
    VS 66 says,"Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: “YOU do not want to go also, do YOU?”
    I ask you all today that STILL CHOOSE FOR THE MOMENT, TO STAY AND REMAIN IN JEHOVAHS ORG as a current Jehovah Witness,
    YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO ALSO, DO YOU??????!
    I could go so much deeper ,BUT as Jesus said one time,
    John 16:12 "“I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present." To bad!!!

Comment by SilverTop on 2013-11-03 20:21:19

I have really become irritated with a lot of things lately. More and more I'm reaching the point of loving Jehovah my God with all my heart, and not caring one whit for going to the Kingdom Hall. The Bible says one thing and the Governing Body says something else. I'm not sure if I should call them the Faithful and Discreet Slave, or just the Corporate Heads. I look around the Kingdom Hall and it seems like there is confusion, resignation, and boredom on most faces. One or two elders are straining to be enthusiastic, but it all seems like an act. Are the words, "Governing Body" even in the Bible? I read in the Bible that Jesus Christ was and is the head of the congregation, not the GB. I feel depressed when I leave the Kingdom Hall nowadays...I may just change my screen name to "Ready to Run"
Jesus said, "NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR, ONLY THE FATHER..." Yet time after time the GB wants to appear that they have all the answers, they have "special" knowledge" that the rest of we poor earthly creatures are not priviledged to know. Questions are forbidden, questions mean one is not a faithful Witness. I sit in the Kingdom Hall sometimes and just stare off into space, or write poetry or work on my short stories, or better yet, I read the Bible. I wonder how many other brothers and sisters feel the same and are just too afraid (brainwashed) to admit what they're thinking and feeling...

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-03 23:33:36

  I felt the same today. A particularly boring talk and a shallow WT study. No depth and no passion. I use the time to read the Bible and it proves helpful, but for how much longer I cannot say.

  • Reply by kev c on 2013-11-04 08:44:40

    Oh brothers me and my sons felt the same a few years ago. When a scripture was read at the meeting we used to read it then carry on reading the context and sometimes the entire chapter. The trouble is the more that. Was done the more i became dissillusioned. With the brothers interpretations. What finally pushed me over the edge though was the brothers attitude toward me which left me feeling so down that i couldnt take anymore. At a time when i really needed understanding and encouragement. May god bless you brothersand never foret verses like phillipians 4 v 6 and 7. Also romans 8. Where it says nothing can seperate us from the love of the christ.

Comment by Eddie on 2013-11-03 21:55:46

What you need to do is stop LOOKING AT OTHERS,AND START LOOKING AT YOURSELF, avoid creature worship toward THOSE WHO SEEM TO STUMBLE YOU IN YOUR CONGREGATION. And yes, Jesus IS THE HEAD OD THE CONGREGATION and the Governing Body/Faithful Slave knows this too, so THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION WHAT SO EVER BY THE FAITHFUL SLAVE.
BUT!, there ARE FAULT FINDERS in the JWs Organeztion who are full of [pride and dont like change. WHATS THE RUSH??
Hebrews 13:17 says "BE OBEDIENT TO THOSE WHO ARE TAKING THE LEAD AMONG YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over YOUR souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to YOU." (greek word is "GOVERNORS OF YOU")
Eph 6:5,"YOU slaves, be obedient to those who are [YOUR] masters in a fleshly sense, with fear and trembling in the sincerity of YOUR hearts, as to the Christ,"
The Governing Body ONLY SEES LIGHT WHEN IT IS JEHOVAHS TIME REVEAL LIGHT. AND THOS WHO DONT UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS IMPATIENTLY ARE CLEANSED OUT OF JEHOVAHS ORG.
WILL YOU BE NEXT FOR JEHOVAH TO CLEAN YOU OUT OF HIS ORG.?!! MAYBE SO!!
Your not the only one who feels depress now at days, many do, BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE MEETINGS! Thats nonsense! Lol! You leave now, and you may never recover coming back on time. Where does one go to? A FALSE BORN AGAIN RELIGION? LOL!!!! Please, those people are set for destruction already. How Bout a Non denomenation Church? Even they are part of Christendom! Lo!!
You need to read the DEEP THINGS IN THE BIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF IT ALL than just say "Oh but Jesus said nobody knows the day or the hour!" Yes Jesus said that but, that WAS THEN CLOSE TO 2,000 YEARS AGO!
Dont forget, Amos 3:7 says "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."
So THINGS ARE NOW STARTING TO GET REVEALED MORE THAN EVER BEFORE COMPARE TO THE YEAR 1975. Not only that, but many of us Jehovahs Witnesses are finding that the Faithful Slaves mistakes of the past WERE NOT REALLY MISTAKES AFTER ALL BUT CLEANSING PHASES WHO WERE DONE BY JESUS who used the FAITHFUL SLAVE TO CLEAN OUT COMPLAINERS AND OPPOSTATES. And your INSIDE A 'TEST AND CLEANING 'PHASE OF 40 YEARS NOW!!!
Just like those Israelites who were under a test for 40 years until they were allowed the REWARD OF THE PROMISE LAND.
DEUT. 8:4 "And you must remember all the way that Jehovah your God made you walk these forty years in the wilderness, in order to humble you, to put you to the test so as to know what was in your heart, as to whether you would keep his commandments or not."
HEB. 3:7-11 "For this reason, just as the holy spirit says: “Today if YOU people listen to his own voice, 8 do not harden YOUR hearts as on the occasion of causing bitter anger, as in the day of making the test in the wilderness, 9 in which YOUR forefathers made a test of me with a trial, and yet they had seen my works for forty years. 10 For this reason I became disgusted with this generation and said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they themselves have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger, ‘They shall not enter into my rest.’”
The yr 2013-1975= 38yrs. Coiencedience or plan event? Our current 40 yr test period is about to end. And depending WHEN EVE WAS CREATED BEFORE THE 7TH REST DAY STARTED or BEFORE WHEN ADAMS 40YR TEST ENDED,IS THE QUESTION!
Could it be next year sometime in the 39th year of 2014? The possibility is a more than so! We just dont know the EXACT DAY AND HOUR OF THE YEAR 2014.
Mal 3:6 says "For I am Jehovah; I have not changed."
STOP BEING FOOLS AND START TO LISTEN OBEDIENTLY TO THE FAITHFUL SLAVE!

• Reply by A searcher for truth on 2013-11-03 23:08:35

  Eddie,
  Are you for real?
  If what you say then that one generation is 100 years, then brother Russell who by the way was considered as the "faithful servant" should have figured this out way back then, even though the scriptures clearly stated that "nobody knows the day or an hour" when the end of this system of things come to an end.
  And since you support the "Faithful Slave" AKA (Governing Body) who have now denied that brother Russell is a member of the "faithful slave" club, they have not stated anywhere in their own literature that is printed by the Watchtower Society, that one generation is "one hundred years", yet you seem to be claiming to have the inside scoop on this understanding?

• Reply by mdnwa on 2013-11-04 00:00:18

  Eddie
  As I read your responses they seem more out of anger and stats, not out of true concern. Reread some of your responses:
  "WILL YOU BE NEXT FOR JEHOVAH TO CLEAN YOU OUT OF HIS ORG.?!! MAYBE SO!!"
  "STOP BEING FOOLS AND START TO LISTEN OBEDIENTLY TO THE FAITHFUL SLAVE!"
  Does that sound like anything up-building or something that stumbles or deters? The matter of fact tone and tossing out dates and times based on your speculation and not by Gods inspiration really is disconcerting. The thing that kept popping up in your writings were someone less interested in building up and someone more interested in passing judgement although you've received no authorization from God to do so.
  Even more so... it's hard to take your words seriously when you toss out dates you speak of those as almost certain then in the same breath talk about us not knowing the day and times. Can you see how someone in my position would not take you to be competent in such a conversation? I like enthusiasm in speaking about God, his word the bible and words of encouragement which I do find from various sources even outside the org however what I find most troubling are ones in the org (and to be fair in other religious orgs) that go out of its way to be the first right or feel "exclusive" while Jehovah has said at Acts 10:34 he is not partial and in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. If even angels including Jesus cannot comprehend times in the future or deep things of Jehovah then who are we as humans to with certainty lord it over those with our faulty line of reasoning? Could we be guilty of overstepping our position as servant to take on a role Jehovah has not authorized us to take? I try to always live by those words and never act I am in anyway superior not toss out dates like they are certain. In this sense you open yourself up to be the definition of a false prophet, something the org has had to fight close to 100 years.
  You see.. your spiritual knowledge as well as many on here is probably FAR superior than mines and have stumbled more than anyone on this blog. While I read the bible, live my life as a Christian, and treat others the way the bible commands I lack some of the deeper understandings most of you have. It has been harder and harder to attend meetings when ones such as yourself act as rulers over those who are really trying to be sheep-like and really zap the enjoyment from going to meetings. Even more depressing is having ones dog me out in service or other places as we constantly change our view to the point I cannot even accurately refute some things brought to me while in service or general conversations. However although I am glad you have all the answers I take a small amount of pleasure being the lesser since God calls the "stupid" of the word and not the ones who seem to have all the answers. I thank the ones in this blog who seem to really up-build and make me think about things rather than tear down.

• Reply by BeenMislead on 2013-11-04 08:37:12

  Eddie said:
  “So THINGS ARE NOW STARTING TO GET REVEALED MORE THAN EVER BEFORE COMPARE TO THE YEAR 1975. Not only that, but many of us Jehovahs Witnesses are finding that the Faithful Slaves mistakes of the past WERE NOT REALLY MISTAKES AFTER ALL BUT CLEANSING PHASES WHO WERE DONE BY JESUS who used the FAITHFUL SLAVE TO CLEAN OUT COMPLAINERS AND OPPOSTATES. And your INSIDE A ‘TEST AND CLEANING ‘PHASE OF 40 YEARS NOW!!!”
  I was there in 1975 and they it seems that they have not learned a thing from their past mistakes. I see nothing new REVEALED today that was not revealed then. Just a slightly different slant on things because of time gone by.
  As far as the FDS past mistakes being “NOT REALLY MISTAKES” ..
  Ps. 31:5 says:
  “Into your hand I entrust my spirit.
  You have redeemed me, O Jehovah the God of truth.”
  Heb. 6:17-18 says:
  “In this manner God, when he purposed to demonstrate more abundantly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his counsel, stepped in with an oath, 18 in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us.”
  Based on the above two scriptures, do you think that Jehovah would have his FDS peach falsehoods so there would be a “CLEANSING”?
  I think not !!!

  • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-04 15:27:44

    Very good comment. God does not make mistakes. To imply that the light gets brighter as if the Holy Spirit dims the light in the first place is inconceivable. There is no record of the faithful Paul, Jesus, Apostles, or the like, calculating when Christ would be enthroned. It was not their concern so neither should it be ours. This obsession with the GB calculating generations and his date of Christ’s “invisible” enthronement is unscriptural.

• Reply by filadefia on 2015-04-03 23:30:24

  Hey Eddie, I just read this article today!....This is 2015! which location on the Promise Land are you now?

Comment by SilverTop on 2013-11-03 22:36:26

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mat. 24:36)It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction…” (Acts 1:7) So, if I'm understanding you correctly, humans NOW know when the end is coming? Thank you for the obvious concern towards my eternal welfare. No, I have no intention of going to a "church", and I really don't appreciate the last sentence you used in your comment. I don't name call people, I was under the distinct impression that no matter if one disagreed, one would not be called out of one's name."STOP BEING FOOLS " is the partial quote you used to address me and I find it most offensive Mr. Eddie. Have a pleasant evening sir!

• Reply by Eddie on 2013-11-03 23:30:26

  Actually YOUR MISTAKEN TO THINK that I called you a fool. This is speakinf of i GENERAL TERMS, NOT TOWARDS YOU PERSONALLY. And NO, we dont know EXACTLY WHEN THE END IS COMING YET, but we are starting TO ZERO IN ON THIS AS THE LIGHT GETS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER. Try to see the THINGS UNSEEN! It take great insight to understand the very deep things of Jehovah
  1.A MARKER, IS TO UNDERSTAND JEHOVAHS TIME TABLE.
  2. WHEN PEACE AND SECURITY STARTS GOING OUT IN A VERY SIGNIFICANT WAY LIKE NEVER BEFORE
  3 THE DISGUSTING THING STANDING IN A HOLY PLACE.
  4.AMOS 3:7 " “For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.”
  5.MAL.3:6 “For I am Jehovah; I have not changed.”
  6.BETTER COMMON SENSE (THINK OUT OF THE BOX OR DEEPER)
  7.As far as "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction…” (Acts 1:7) Jesus was talking to his apostles THEN and for a specific reason. NOT for them. So it was NOT NESSESARY FOR THEM TO KNOW SUCH FUTURE EVENTS THEN,IT WOULD BE IRRALAVENT FO THEM TO KNOW BACK IN 33 C.E.

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-03 23:42:25

    Using uppercase font is considered shouting. STOP BEING FOOLS cannot be taken as anything other than an insult to the readers of this forum, and it is certainly not the way a Christian is to behave. If you carry the name of Jehovah and yet act in a way that misrepresents his character, you are taking his name in vain. I would ask you to address your comments to the membership respectfully. This is a place for reasoned discussion not a place for intimidation tactics. Please review our Commenting Etiquette page before making any further remarks.
    http://meletivivlon.com/commenting-etiquette/

Comment by Eddie on 2013-11-03 23:43:03

WT 75, 1/1
"Now, we know that Jesus Christ had been in heaven with his Father at the time of earth’s creation. (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:13-17) He knew the exact time of the creation of both Adam and Eve. (Gen. 1:26, 27) He knew precisely when 6,000 years of human history would be completed. He knew exactly when God’s seventh creative day, his great “rest” day began and when it would end. (Gen. 2:1-3) Yet, with all his perfect knowledge of chronology, 'WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH' he did not know the day and hour of his execution of judgment on this world, prior to when his thousand-year reign begins."
Now this is being VERY SPECIFIC. And it makes perfect sense because Jesus siad before "“Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner." John 4:19
And " Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him." John 7:16
Something to really think about!!!

Comment by A searcher for truth on 2013-11-03 23:43:15

Also Eddie, has it not occurred to you that because of free-will in that humans are given time to repent and change their ways that the "end of this system of things" may not happen as you indeed appear to expect?
God is not going by a timetable as we might expect?
God is patient and slow to anger and does not desire "any to be destroyed" but does desire all of his "wayward children" to repent.
Yes "children", because we are all children of God.
But to be an approved "son of God" and a "son of the Kingdom" then we must become a "faith son" of his who recognizes his Son Jesus Christ as both our "mediator" and "King".
This is symbolized by "our partaking of the emblems" on memorial night.
It was his Heavenly father's pleasure to approve him as his only "Begotten Son" here on earth on baptism day, which also led to God's approval of him as the established "King" of "our particular universe", who had the legitimate right to rule which was confirmed by his "faithful course" as "God's approved Son" here on earth.
It is my understanding that Jesus made a New Covenant with his apostles of which would include all his faithful followers there after, including all of those who would call themselves part of the "great crowd" which by the way if you look at it very closely is made up of by both the chosen ones of "144,000" and those of the spiritual Israelite nation and other spiritual nations.
Revelation 7
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches.
10 And they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.[LITV]
If you look carefully at the previous verses quoted here, both the groups are included in the "out of every nation" statement, including the spiritual chosen of the Israelite nation.

• Reply by Eddie on 2013-11-04 00:22:28

  Your being a bit to sensitive now. Lol! And your showing weakness.
  Sure Jehovah would love ALL TO REPENT, but its on his time table according to the Bible, I could EASILY GO ON AND ON, BUTIT SEEMS LIKE KORAH AND HIS SONS, YOU ARE SET IN YOUR WAYS TO LISTEN TO YOURSEVLES THAN THE FAITHFUL SLAVE. LoL!

Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2013-11-04 01:37:16

As I understood today's Watchtower study, those trained by Christ should be ready to stoop and wash the feet of any they wish to assist. Eddie appears to LOL (laugh out loud) a lot and cares little for the genuine feelings of others.
“Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.” (James 3:18)
Eddie, you don’t strike me as one who possesses much humility. You seem arrogant and unlearnable—not the kind of person that I would want teaching my kids. To me the only light you are making brighter is that which shines on the immaturity you demonstrate in your attitude and your concern for others.
In other words, go read the book of James—meditate upon it, and then come back to us when you have something positive to share. In other words, bring us something we don’t already know.
Christian Love,
sw1

Comment by Chris on 2013-11-04 01:45:44

"STOP BEING FOOLS AND START TO LISTEN OBEDIENTLY TO THE FAITHFUL SLAVE!"
That is quite a statement.
Eddie, your zeal is to be commended, but it is sadly misplaced.
In Jesus time there were many groups and individuals proclaiming the arrival of the Messiah based on the Messianic prophesies. There were many who even claimed to be the Messiah, but only Jesus of Nazareth was able to fulfill the scriptures that applied to the Messiah. We know this as Christ's FIRST coming.
While on Earth Jesus himself gave his disciples warnings regarding his SECOND coming, most notably that "no one knows the day or the hour" and " if anyone says to you,Look! Here is the Christ.....Look I have forewarned you" Matt. 24:23-27,36.
If Jesus himself gave us these warnings then we do well to heed them don't you agree?
The Watchtower Society claims Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and claims that he appointed them as his faithful slave, the latest guise of this understanding is the 8 member governing body.
They also claim that Jesus is going to return visibly in the future and execute Jehovah's judgement on mankind. That would make this his THIRD coming, wouldn't you agree? Now I don't know about you but I have never read about a THIRD coming in the Bible. Probably because there isn't one.
So this would mean that Christ's SECOND coming is yet to occur which also means that he has not appointed his faithful and discreet slaves yet.
This is a future event, so for you to ask us to "listen obediently to the faithful slave" is somewhat presumptuous, considering they cannot have been appointed yet.
UNLESS they appointed themselves perhaps?
Something to really think about!!!

Comment by A searcher for truth on 2013-11-04 02:43:05

Since the prophet Amos was quoted here already, I will quote another scripture which is rarely quoted by the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, but was briefly discussed in a recent publication, about 6 years ago, about the minor prophets.
I will quote it here as a sober warning for those who crave for Armageddon.
Amos 5
18 Woe to those desiring the day of Jehovah! What is this for you? The day of Jehovah is darkness, and not light.[LITV]

Comment by imjustasking on 2013-11-04 03:14:09

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE WT PROPAGANDA
The year 1914 was meant to herald the START of the new system
1914 was not originally taught as the date of Jesus' enthronement.
So when Russell made the announcement at breakfast in 1914 they were expecting a NEW SYSTEM to BEGIN and for this system to END!!
But because they got that hopelessly wrong, a 'refinement' took place as the 'new light' got brighter. The WT revised their history and now most brothers believe the lie.
The Society conveniently whitewashes its previous statements (by completely ignoring their earlier statements) and presents themselves as true seers. Since most of the brothers are not aware of the previous statements surrounding 1914, the WT predictions are treated with awe and proof of their divine backing
And to Eddie, Jehovah does not deliberately mislead his people by giving them false dates to test them, neither would his son (Mat 7:8-11)
END OF THE WORLD BELIEFS HELD 1870 - 1930
It was believed that the presence began in 1874 and rulership in 1878. 1914 was to mark God's VISIBLE rulership
Prophecy 1929
"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D."
Our Lords Return (1929) pp27
"From 1874 onward is the time of the Lord's second presence, as above stated… his circumstantial evidence fulfilling prophecy is what constitutes the physical facts, and is proof corroborative of the Lord's presence since 1874…His presence beginning in 1874, he has carried on his harvest work from 1874 forward… "
Studies in Scriptures Series IV (1897) p.621
"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present since October 1874, A.D., according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it: and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D."
Studies in Scriptures – Thy Kingdom Come (1911 ed) p.239
"The year A.D. 1878, ... clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...."
Zions Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226
"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
END OF THE WORLD BELIEFS CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN HELD POST 1930
WatchTower 1954 June 15 p.370
"Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world wide advertising of Christ's return and his second Presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur."
WatchTower 1988 September 15 p.15
"…a prophecy providentially caused sincere 19th-century Bible students to be in expectation. By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles", they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914."
WatchTower 1993 January 15 p.5
"The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914."
Awake 1973 January 22 p.8
Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things."

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-04 08:11:32

I have given Eddie fair warning, yet he seems determined to disregard the commenting guidelines for this site. These guidelines are based on our understanding of 2 Timothy 2:23: "Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights. But the slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all...instructing with mildness."
Therefore, I will be removing any more comments of his that do not conform to this inspired direction from our Lord.

Comment by AFRICAINE on 2013-11-04 10:05:29

Thank you for removing the Eddie-strong individual from this forum. Now I make a refreshing beverage and continue reading in peace.

Comment by peely on 2013-11-04 12:04:26

Well, Thank goodness Eddie can't comment again, but I do hope he continues to read:
Jer 26:29 - For behold, I begin to bring calamity on the city which is called by My name, and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished, for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth,” says the Lord of hosts.’
Rev 18:23 - The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived.
Roans 1::23 - and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
After reading this scriptures, who do you assess that the Man of Lawlessness actually is?
And as far as New Light?
Deut. 18:21,22 -
And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’—
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
A thought on the self-appointed FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE -
Romans 8:19 - For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Luke 17:10 - So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’”
1 Cor 4:8 - You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!
How do you fulfill this scripture in Matthew as you glorify the Governing Body? No consideration is made to the faithful anointed earnestly seeking and preaching truth. They are "thrown out of the synagogues" for speaking against doctrines of men. They easily crush Christ's temple, scraping them out of their self-proclaimed way.
Matt 25:34-36 - Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
The least of Christ's brothers are who we show loving kindness to. Our own personal judgment with God dies not hinge on obeying the greatest. And what does the GB say to the existence of the wicked slave? Wow. They dismissed that with extreme sleight of hand.
Making declarations on Jehovah's timetable or convincing the masses of just who is the faithful and discreet one shows fruits of self-righteousness.
John 7:18 - He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory but He who seeks he glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
Eddie, you say - Do you see any parallels between the situation of the Israelites back then and that of Jehovah’s people today?
I sure do, and history repeats itself in many ways. This earthly organization proclaiming the only way to salvation and giving glory to men instead of the Father in heaven, as well as His Son - this proclaimed "mountain-like organization of Jehovah" will go down, and not lightly.
Jeremiah 51:25 - “Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord.
“And I will stretch out My hand against you,
Roll you down from the rocks,
And make you a burnt mountain.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-04 14:25:22

  Powerful words, particularly those of Jer. 51:25, but I must concur with your assessment.

Comment by kev c on 2013-11-04 14:02:32

Hmm. First peter 3. Verses 8 and 9. And verse 15 come to mind as well. New world translation.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-04 14:22:31

  Yes, very applicable in this context. Thanks.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2013-11-04 14:07:41

Like you, Meleti, I remember a special public meeting about 1973 when we invited our Bible Students to the Kingdom Hall to explain that the generation that was about 10 years old in 1914 was now reaching the end of "70 or 80 years making up a generation" in the sense of Psalm 90/91.
The implication was that since we would count the remaining months to "the end," those Bible students needed to pay heed.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-04 14:17:17

  What troubles me is how we turned a blind eye to such presumptuousness.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2013-11-04 14:33:09

The obvious answer is we thought we had a prophet class directing our efforts.
[Please reverse "ce would" to "we could" in prior post and erase this line. Thanks.]

Comment by peely on 2013-11-04 15:04:21

kev c - I am sounding condemnatory. Thank you for those scriptural reminders and I will take them to heart.
Speaking truth out of love and concern for fellow man is not all marshmallows.
Jer 9:5 - Everyone lies to his friend,
and no one speaks the truth.
The people of Judah have taught their tongues to lie.
They have become tired from sinning.
Eph 4:13-16 - This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person, growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection.
14 Then we will no longer be babies. We will not be tossed about like a ship that the waves carry one way and then another. We will not be influenced by every new teaching we hear from people who are trying to fool us. They make plans and try any kind of trick to fool people into following the wrong path. 15 No! Speaking the truth with love, we will grow up in every way into Christ, who is the head. 16 The whole body depends on Christ, and all the parts of the body are joined and held together. Each part does its own work to make the whole body grow and be strong with love.
Christ's Temple, the body, is described above. Truth and love is their mission, if they chose to accept it. OR, they listen to the Father of the Lie, and make their covenant with him instead of Christ. If someone has deceived you or those you love, or you see loved ones in the path of peril, wouldn't you warn them with every way possible?
The Bible gives us ample evidence of what pure truth is. Do we take the direction haphazardly or seriously apply it to our lives? Love is the motivator, sometimes it's tough.
Matt. 23:37 - “Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You kill the prophets and stone to death those who are sent to you. Many times I wanted to gather your people as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you did not let me.

• Reply by kev c on 2013-11-04 18:00:20

  It wasnt particularly aimed at you peeley sorry but there have been some strong feelings expressed today. Its easy to get carried away. Jesus said what proceeds out of a mans mouth comes from his heart. And could defile him matthew 15 v 18 and 19. Matthew 12. V 35 to 37 is also very sobering. And a good lesson for all of us. But matthew 5 v 22 came to mind with one particular comment today. Weve all just got to try our best really. No ones perfect. James 3 v2. Thanks for your humility. Matthew 18 v 4.

Comment by SilverTop on 2013-11-04 16:50:36

Thank you so much for the restoration of peace here to this beautiful site. I appreciate having somewhere to go and know that I am not alone in my thoughts, that others think as I do. We all love Jehovah and are most grateful for His goodness, love and mercy towards us. I have been hurt emotionally and spiritually on both the west and gulf coast by brothers who were not loving or tender to the flock, so perhaps my feelings are too tender, but I come here and my feelings are treated kindly and my questions are answered. I thank you my kind brothers and sisters.
Agape!

Comment by apollos0fAlexandria on 2013-11-05 09:53:47

It seems that most people who object to the material on this site have a fundamental misunderstanding about the implications of dropping JW chronological doctrine. Eddie wrote in his first comment “You only have ONE LIFE TO LIVE. Once this Great Tribulation hits, it will be all to late to turn your ways and attitudes.”
People like Eddie have been sold on the idea that it is necessary to perpetually make chronological calculations in order to “keep on the watch”.
Jesus makes absolutely clear that such reasoning is a fallacy. In Luke 12:39 he says “if the householder had known at what hour the their would come, he would not have let his house be broken into”. If a person takes this out of context it might seems that Jesus was saying that we need to calculate the hour in order to avoid the break-in. But the surrounding verses make it apparent that this cannot be.
Verse 38 shows that he may come during any watch, which is the full span of the night. Those who say we don't know “the day or the hour” but we can know the year, are completely missing the use of the word “hour” within this entire discourse by Jesus. There were three watches in the illustration of three hours each – nine hours in total. Evidently, not knowing when the arrival would occur within this span meant that anything was possible. The disciples simply would not be able to narrow it down to any hour out of these nine. Since the words were for all Christians we can treat the nine-hour watch as the whole of the time period since the first century.
Additionally verse 40 says that we need to be permanently ready because it will be at an hour that we do not think likely. In other words, not an unknown hour within a known year, but an unknown hour of the illustrative nine hours that are the entire Christian era. Unsurprisingly every attempt to calculate this figurative “hour” has failed.
But contrary to what Eddie and others might think, that does not mean that a state of readiness is not possible. Jesus said that his true followers would prove themselves ready without any knowledge of when he would arrive. That can only mean that they are ready because of their perpetual love for the Lord, and not because of a human calculation. If their love cools off then they will find themselves unready. It is love for him that sustains a certainty that he will arrive because we believe his promises, despite not being able to know when this it will be fulfilled.
“Ready Eddie” believes that those who accept Jesus' words just as he said them, will find themselves unready. Nothing could be further from the truth as long as we accept the full range of Jesus' teachings. There is nothing in my own mind that would preclude the Lord's arrival this very day. Am I ready for that? All I can say is that it is something that I try to think about on a continual basis.
Eddie seems ready for a 2014 arrival, and scorns those of us who do not accept his thinking. But Eddie, are you, together with all of us, ready for a 5th November 2013 arrival? That is the real question.
Apollos
P.S. By way of clarification, I understand that Eddie has not been “banned” from posting comments, but simply that any comments breaching the site guidelines will not be approved. So Eddie, if you wish to reply in a polite and Christian way then I believe that you are free to do so.

• Reply by anderestimme on 2013-11-05 11:06:28

  The logic of "we can't know when but we can almost know when" is extremely flawed. That would negate the whole 'stay alert because you don't know when' counsel, as well as the 'thief in the night' and 'watchman' illustrations. Furthermore, the implication is that, down through the centuries, those who have faithfully followed Christ throughout their lives have only been able to do so because Jesus managed to dupe them - or allowed them to be duped - into thinking that the end would come in their lifetime.

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-05 11:26:39

    I hadn't thought of it from that point of view. The counterpoint shows the flaw in our Organization's reasoning.

  • Reply by peely on 2013-11-05 12:27:01

    And then the cry of "peace and security" becomes a reality.

Comment by emilyjeff on 2013-11-05 12:23:37

Excellent points Apollos. I have been considering the Scripture at 2 Peter 3:7-9 “But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” This seems to confirm at least to me that the last days started in the first century and suggest that each day could be a thousand years long. So of course we are in the last days. But where we are in the stream of time is for Jehovah alone to know.
Also as for keeping on the watch and remaining in God’s love we do not know when our time is up. For all we know we know our end could come suddenly and would we be ready? We must remain in God’s love all the time. Of course this is just my take on it.

Comment by kev c on 2013-11-05 16:33:30

Why do the brothers always try and pin point the return of christ to judge mankind. And make us feel were on the very brink. I dont feel this reasoning is scriptural.one comment i read said those who do that have a heightened expectation which interferes with the normal course of life. I dont believe jesus ever intended that. See verse 40 to 42. Of matthew 24. And unbelievably if taken on face value verses 45 and 46. The brothers tend to look for some super spiritual hidden meaning in the verses. The whole illustration tells me what we need to do to be ready and what we need to avoid. See verse 48. And 49. And you cant get much clearer than chapter 25 about how to prove ourselves one of jesus sheep its all about how we treat our brothers. If we do these things out of love we need not fear the day and it shouldnt concern us too much when it comes

Comment by kev c on 2013-11-06 07:24:01

Ive just read the watchtower article dated jan 15 tell us when these things will be the theme scriptures very telling to me. Matthew 24 v 33. When you see ALL these things occur know that is near. What things had jesus just spoken of. Verse 29 to 31. Sun and moon darkened stars falling from the sky heavenly bodies shaken. Even if taken figurativly this is pretty serious stuff. The sign of the son of man in the sky. All the nations mourning. The gathering of the elect. Im not trying deliberatly to upset anyone here. Im just trying to honestly portray what i see in the scriptures.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-06 07:33:03

  Serious stuff for sure. Actually, if one reads Mat. 24:4-14 with an unbiased eye, one realized that these things have been happening since Christ's departure. We look at verse 14 as if only we as Jehovah's Witnesses are responsible for the worldwide preaching of the good news, but the preaching to all the nations has been an ongoing work that has spanned the centuries. Only the events of verses 15 to 31 have yet to occur. Only those verses constitute the sign of his presence. Therefore, the generation of verse 34 only appears when the events of verse 15 transpire.

  • Reply by kev c on 2013-11-06 09:21:24

    Yes i agree the same could be said of revelation 6. As well. Some commentries say that the seals describe world events over the last 2000 years. Starting with christs first appearance and ending with his final judgement. Its one possible explanation among others. We will have to wait and see

Comment by Avoid Being “Quickly Shaken From Your Reason”! (w13 12/15) | Beroean Pickets on 2014-02-04 11:42:02

[…] the current Governing Body seems to be starting down the same path as their forbearers.  The January 15, 2014 Watchtower provides a means to calculate the approximate length remaining in the last days.  We seem to be […]