Rutherford Takes the Lead...

Comment by Jude on 2013-11-10 17:46:27

He took the lead by preaching in print and preaching in phonograph recordings. Why, I'm sure there isn't a Witness of that era that didn't preach with Rutherford . . . on phongraph! LOL.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2013-11-10 17:54:50

The Spanish translation team is every ready to catch and correct those errors.
They said, Rutherford "who at that time was directing the work..."
We know that Rutherford dismissed the majority of directors, as appointed by Russell in his will as an editorial board; therefore "directing the work [solely]" seems accurate.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-10 18:18:57

  In the book on Acts we recently studied at the Bible Study, the Spanish translation team when referring to the first century "governing body" used 'the apostles and older men in Jerusalem'.
  Do I sense a closet rebellion? :)

Comment by Chris on 2013-11-10 18:36:49

Nice catch.
When I began researching Rutherford's tenure I found a mine of information from a host of sources. Even when I discounted those sources which were vitriolic and nasty, and allowed for the benefit of the doubt on other curious details, I still found the record of his real conduct and pronouncements overwhelmingly accurate.
The Society has worked hard to reinvent Rutherford as some sort of loving father figure. The reality is they have no choice but to accept him as being a piece in their unbroken road from 1914 to " the new system of things".
Isn't it interesting that the WTS has often said that a sign of apostasy is an unwillingness to share in the door to door ministry. In Rutherford's case he no doubt felt he was far too important or busy to engage in this " life saving work"
While I don't subscribe to some of the Bible Students understandings, from their perspective Rutherford was the evil slave in contrast to Russell being the faithful slave. The claim that the WTS make of Jehovah's Witnesses being a progression from the Bible Students are refuted by their modern counterparts.
From their perspective they carried on in the truth while Rutherford apostatized and effectively started a new religion.

Comment by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-10 19:49:01

I was severely annoyed by this paragraph. Among other things as usual. I'm sorry that song I believe it's116 the "light getting ever brighter" is like nails on a chalkboard.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-10 19:58:10

  Let's not forget about the closing song which ends with these words:
  So worship him wholeheartedly
  Forever as his friend.
  "Forever as his friend", but never as his son? Even in songs they undermine our relationship with our heavenly Father.

  • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-11 08:58:01

    Exactly .... "The time has arrived, the Messiah now reigns, The proof of his presence is clear." Is it that clear ? sigh.......

  • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-11 09:00:33

    Oh that part about being forever his friend ... I didn't sing that part. I kept thinking the whole time during the prayer... how this silent protest is affecting me. I stay in prayer to Jehovah continually to help me find peace and let go of the anger and resentment

  • Reply by anderestimme on 2013-11-11 11:06:49

    The music itself is nauseating enough. But to sing...
    "Our Lord has appointed a trustworthy slave,
    Through whom He gives food in due season.
    The light of the truth has grown brighter with time,
    Appealing to heart and to reason"
    ...would have made me heave. What's truly amazing is that I found myself wondering if the CO was watching who was singing and who wasn't.

    • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-12 20:14:34

      I forgot about that part in the song *shudders*

    • Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2013-11-13 23:31:10

      Most of the songs I refuse to sing and I'm sure there are those who wonder why since I'm considered one of the better singers in the congregation. What nauseates me most is the governing body's attitude that the puts new songbook on the same level as the inspired Psalms. Prayers too. Most I cannot say 'amen' to because they are not prayers of my heart but a Pharisaical heart, like the one thanking God that "I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector" next to me!
      Oh help! We have become sooooo Pharisaical it is truly nauseating!

      • Reply by kev c on 2013-11-14 04:46:01

        I think this is one of the main problems smoulderingwick. Flying right in the face many well known scriptures. Many in the organisation have an extreemly judgemental attitude and it seems to go right from the top to the bottom. It always has sickened me when any scripture that has a bad connotation was always applied to christendom which really means everyone else who calls themselves a christian apart from the witnesses. And this doctrine of 1914 and the brothers being the restored congregation has lead the elders on to try and cleanse the congregation. So even the least little thing is jumped upon. A lot of brothers tend to sit themselves in the judgement seat of christ. And this is such an important doctrine as well how on earth do we expect god to forgive us. When we are so eager to condemn others even for the least of things.

        • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2013-11-19 08:39:37

          As long as they keep applying those scriptures to Christendom and not to our congregation they will not allow the scriputres to “reprove” them thus” setting them straight”. I have never adopted this 1914 doctrine ever . I always thought that this along with the generation stumbles would be clarified. I use to think what is the big deal ? But i had not realized until I came across this site how entrenched this doctrine is in our teachings. I still believe the most horrible falsehood is the teaching s surronding the“ great crowd” and “ anointed class”. It is the most damaging spritually and is on par with the trinity to me.

Comment by on 2013-11-10 20:55:04

All the emphasis on Rutherford is really about the organization as he really is the foundation of this organizational structure we have today, it seems everything today is about the organization and those that are the figure heads, like Rutherford and the GB. Just recently there was a picture of one of the GB going door to door, think it was the Tasmanian, if Rutherford did go door to door, I am sure that the WT would have a picture to show in the WT also. No doubt the organization and the GB rulers have taken on a more noticable importance, reminds me of the golden calf and those enticed to worship and Aaron among them being impatient waiting on Moses to come down from the mountain with Jehovahs law.
As we all know Russel was against organizations.
Beware of "organization" It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word to-day..
(Charles Taze Russell - Watchtower 1895 p 216 )
Forever as his friend, yes I was miffed at that also, but in the closing prayer, the brother said, Our heavenly Father Jehovah God.
The mixed messages are so contradictory. The article also mentioned the Father (para 19) quoting (2Cor 1:3) "The Father of tender mercies"
Many WT mentions our Heavenly Father, but then the WT will come out with we are Friends of God, that is those with an earthly hope.
It has become like JW are subjects of the ruling leaders and their government like stucture the organization, with their own sort of senate, the writers at bethel, the lawyers, the ZO, DO, CO bethelites, elders, ministerial servant, pioneers....... all working along joyfully within this organzation structure in obedience to the GB/FDS.
But not taking anything away from most of our faithful loving b/s, the genuinly love Jehovah God and Christ and are do all for Gods glory. However this could become a trap when Our Lord Jesus Christ coming to inspect his house, to judge his house, as we are taught that Christ had already come in 1918/19 and approved us, what a shock this will be and a huge test as to where our loyalities lie, in an organzation /men or Jehovah God and his Christ our King and head of the congregations.
Satan has always been able to entice Gods people into idolatry, but there has always been faithful ones among Gods people. What an insidious sly method the wicked one is using to trap and destroy Gods sheep, especially the chosen ones.
Apostacy always starts from the top.

• Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-11 09:10:42

  Good point. This "organization" these buildings or hierarchy they have established is not the means of salvation. Only Jesus is. If you put your trust in nobles you are a fool. People will disappoint you and will let you down without fail. To ask Jehovah's people for obedience is presumptuous and way out of line with the scriptures. Even the apostle Paul who had clear evidence of Jehovah's appointment through Jesus only asked us to be IMITATORS of him as he was of the Christ.

Comment by Come Lord Jesus on 2013-11-10 21:10:17

Hebrews 2: "Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him; 9 but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, that he by God’s undeserved kindness might taste death for every [man].
10 For it was fitting for the one for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all [stem] from one, and for this cause he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,”
12 as he says: “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the middle of [the] congregation I will praise you with song.”
Conclusion:
So the actual name of God was taken away from the Jews and NOT provided in the Christian scriptures, in order that the Christ may make known his father to the brothers of Christ. Meaning, that we would have to come to know the father through our relationship as brothers to the Christ - and then and only then, come to know the name of the father.
It is all beginning to make sense. So how are we "friends of God" without this brotherhood with our Lord?

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-10 21:19:42

  Very sound reasoning. That you for that "Come Lord Jesus".
  

Comment by Samaritan Woman on 2013-11-10 22:41:34

This was a paragraph I commented on during the C.O visits today. I said that "according to the proclaimers book, the society taught that the gentile times had ended, the end of false religion and governments were at hand , the earthly and heavenly resurrection was soon to take place and the paradise would follow how happy we are the brother's humbly accepted correction and began to preach in fulfillment of Mark 16:10".
I got alot of "that was an interesting comment" and even a " I see you studied your lesson" from the C.O.
It is extremely irritating that the mistakes made are pushed off onto "some " who had wrong ideas. It serves to maintain a near constant self doubt amongst people as a whole and keeps them from questioning when their god given conscience tells them something is amok.

• Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2013-11-11 09:18:56

  The pararaph said " some thought" as if they arrived at these ideas on their own . It is very annoying. If "some thought" this and at the time the "slave " knew that this was an incorrect assumption ... why not correct their understanding? It is because the WTS led the brothers to that conclusion but refuse to accept responsibilty for it .

Comment by kev c on 2013-11-11 05:33:54

If these comments are right looks like the ministry of truth has been hard at work again. Take care the ministry of love is the next stop.

• Reply by A searcher for truth on 2013-11-12 17:53:30

  I believe this scripture is very fitting when adding to your comment.
  Colossians 1
  12 ¶ giving thanks to the Father, who has made us fit for a share of the inheritance of the saints in light,
  13 who delivered us out of the authority of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Comment by BeenMislead on 2013-11-11 09:54:28

“In a similar way, at the beginning of the 20th century, there were a number of wrong expectations among true Christians regarding “the last days.” (2 Tim. 3:1) For instance, in the year 1914, some thought that their being taken to heaven was imminent. When their hopes were not immediately realized, an earnest reexamination of the Scriptures brought into focus that a great preaching campaign lay ahead. (Mark 13:10) Hence, in 1922, J. F. Rutherford, who then took the lead in the preaching work, told those assembled at the international convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A.: “Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents. Therefore advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom.” From that time onward, proclaiming “the good news of the kingdom” has been a hallmark of Jehovah’s modern-day servants.” – (w13 9/15 page 14, paragraph 14)
There were also a number of wrong expectations/teachings in 1922 …
What else did Rutherford say just before the quote above at that convention? He said …
“Millions now living will never die ... Do you believe it?
Do you believe that the King of glory is present, and has been since 1874? Do you believe that during that time he has conducted his harvest work? Do you believe that he has had during that time a faithful and wise servant through whom he directed his work and the feeding of the household of faith? Do you believe that the Lord is now in his temple, judging the nations of earth? Do you believe that the King of glory has begun his reign?”
(See Jehovah’s Witness in the Divine Purpose, pg .101-102, published in 1959)
Also, Rutherford was not expecting that a “great preaching campaign lay ahead” as the Watchtower is implying! He expected it to last no longer than three years. The end of the system of things was coming in 1925.
Once again I left the meeting irritated and in a bad mood!

Comment by Dany on 2013-11-13 08:02:08

Recently I asked an elder about 1914.
Jesus has been supossedly since then the King over his Kingdom and present/ parousia. But can there be the Kingdom without 144000? And to what or to whom has been his Kingship directed since then? Any biblical support?
But if so, there must had been first resurrection until 1914. JMO. We know, this is not the case.
His answer was, 144000 are ment to be with Christ together after Harmagedon in paradise. This is clear to me, but this doesn't make any sence, since this would mean, thas Christ aka King since 1914 has been ruling without his counterpart (144000)...
Is there any biblical support for Christ beeing since 1914 alone as King on his throne?
***************
I suppose this post does not fits to this topic.
Meleti, feel free to move it anywhere you see to fit it better.
By the way, I aprecciate this website and this forum very much. I am reading here since a long time and get so much encouragement and understanding from it.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-11-13 08:50:47

  Hi Dany,
  You make an excellent point. We love to use math (the 2,520 years) to 'prove' that 1914 is the date the Messianic kingdom assumed power. However we ignore the even easier math that it he rules for a 1,000 years with the 144,000. If his rule is already 100 years old, then he's only got 900 left, but that means the 144,000 don't get to rule for 1,000 years, which contradicts Scripture. No satisfactory explanation has ever been advanced to explain this math puzzle.
  Meleti

  • Reply by Dany on 2013-11-14 06:42:10

    Thank you Meleti, this was exactly my point.
    There is a lot of schizophrenia about WTS.
    I just wonder how Jehovah (better say Jesus) will judge all those (possibly us too) in Harmageddon, because when someone today refuses WTS for what it is with good conciense. i on my part would just fully understand..
    IMO, the judment will be much more complex as the 8 guys proclame.

    • Reply by Dany on 2013-11-14 07:09:02

      I remember one ultimate statement of another elder some 25 years ago. Hier how it goes:
      Those, we would expect to see after Haramgeddon, we will not see, but we will see there those we would not expect to see...

  • Reply by A searcher for truth on 2013-11-15 06:54:01

    On top of that we have the variance between the Jewish lunar calendar and the Roman solar calendar followed by the Gregorian calendar.
    If you work it out, there seems to be a discrepancy of quite a few days and when we are going by the rule "a day for a year, a day for a year" then that can run into a considerable time difference in working out the 7 times period between 607 BC and 1914 CE period.
    On top of that, there is absolutely no historical proof that Jerusalem was totally destroyed along with it's temple in the year 607 BC.
    All secular historical records points to the time period of 585 - 587 BC as the event of Jerusalem's destruction, thereby putting of the 1914 calculation of by 20 years or so.
    Another thing that I have also discovered with study of Daniel's prophecies is that there is only ever one application or fulfillment, to every one of Daniel's prophecies.
    Hence if the seven times were actually applied to King Nebuchadnezzar himself as Daniel himself had stated, then this was fulfilled with King Nebuchadnezzar going mad for seven years and then being restored to his throne after he had regained his sanity.

• Reply by kev c on 2013-11-13 12:46:02

  When did that point come in I was always taught that the ressurection began early in the lords day ie shortly after 19 14. I remember one of our elders discussing brother franz just after his death and saying just think he's up there with christ now. Is this new light that I should have been keeping up with brothers. This doctrine of christs second and third coming. Is half hard to get your head around. Kev

  • Reply by kev c on 2013-11-17 04:17:18

    Oh looks like the 1000 year reign hasn't started yet. Feb 2014 1st study article para 19

    • Reply by Observer17 on 2013-11-17 17:28:49

      Hi key, :)
      Is this the paragraph you were referring to above:
      Link: http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20140215/hail-christ-glorious-king/
      19. How will Christ “go on to victory” and complete his conquest?
      19 After destroying Satan’s wicked system of things on earth, Christ ‘in his splendor’ will “go on to victory.” (Ps. 45:4) He will complete his conquest by abyssing Satan and his demons for the full length of the Thousand Year Reign. (Rev. 20:2, 3) With the Devil and his angels then in a state of deathlike inactivity, earth’s inhabitants will be free of satanic influence and will be able to live in total subjection to their victorious and glorious King. Before they see the earth gradually transformed into a global paradise, however, they will have another reason to rejoice with their King and his heavenly associates. That joyful event will be examined in the following article.
      Observer17

      • Reply by kev c on 2013-11-18 10:53:22

        Yes thanks observer 17 that's the one.

Comment by Andronicus on 2013-11-20 15:24:14

Coming up on 100 years of kingdom rule since 1914. That leaves 900 years of a 1,000 year reign. Hope something really gets done by then.

Comment by Qualifications to Become God’s Channel of Communication | Beroean Pickets on 2014-02-13 10:20:18

[…] There is also the art of teaching from door to door. This is certainly considered in large part to determine an appointment of a Christian overseer in the congregation. In this regard it is noteworthy that there is no evidence that Rutherford ever engaged in the door to door preaching. […]

Comment by KELVIN THOMPSON on 2017-04-10 15:21:21

What is the exact documented source(book,magazine,etc.)where Judge Rutherford started teaching the doctrine of the 144,000?