WT Study: You Must Love Jehovah Your God.

Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2014-08-03 11:36:26

When I used to conduct WT studies, I always studied them from from back to front. Somehow my brain kept telling me to determine first the objective before getting into the subject. That way, I used to focus on the paragraphs that seemed most stimulating spiritually.... those paragraphs that we sometimes missed because we simply weren't paying attention or made us consider our Biblical stand more carefully. I always remember one writer who said, "The Bible was written to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."
I still have the odd sister or brother come up to me and ask why I'm no longer an elder because of the way I conducted the Watchtower. But times are getting odder aren't they? Thanks Meleti for being on the same page as so many of us here.
sw

Comment by kev c on 2014-08-03 12:26:24

I think if anyone really wants to know what it means to love god we can do no better than look into the 1st letter of john . 1 john 5 v 3 we observe his commandments but they are nor a burden and we can why at 1 john 3 v 23 this is the commandment that we have faith in the name of his son and be loving one another PLAIN AND SIMPLE .why does the watchtower make it burdensome by adding lots of other things ..???????? Kev

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-03 13:43:37

  They remind me of another group known for adding burdensome and unnecessary weight to their converts.

Comment by yobec on 2014-08-03 22:48:33

Since when do we have to prove to God we love him? The scriptures tell us that Jehovah searches the entire earth to see whose HEART is complete towards him.Yes, he searches the heart and not the performances.
For centuries, self serving religious leaders have used this " prove to God that you love him " doctrine so as to get their flocks to do as they would tell them to.
The love that we have for God and his son is simply a hearfelt response in appreciating that "He has first loved us" . Then, the works automatically follow because this genuine love " never fails".
Interesingly, the term "prove" is used only 3 times in the greek scriptures and on all 3 occasions, it is in regards to proving it to ourselves.

Comment by Katrina on 2014-08-04 00:14:57

The works are putting on of the new personality (person), (Ephes 4:24)the fruitage of the spirit. Gal 5 :22 in comparison to the works of the flesh.
It is Jehovah that draws us to his Son. Jesus said "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.'' (John 6:44).
It is how we treat one another one another regardless of religion or nationality. The good Samaritan is a fine example of this love that Jesus showed is the works required, love is the key and all other things come naturally. Luke 10:25-37 Mark 12:29
Add rules that bind one down distract from the real Christian works that Christ taught, no matter how kind a person may be if they don't follow all the rules or obey those that add them, they can be throw out of the temple, this is what Jesus hated the way the Pharisees treated the flock, I see a similarity in the WT and other high control groups.
The narrow road is not a religion but true love, and there are many good Samaritans out there, while the WT teaches these falsehoods, JW will continue to rely on there Salvation through and organization. Matt 7:14
Its not the religion within but the love.
Sadly its becoming more obvious that the WT is becoming more controlling and more Pharisaic.
So, while God has always had faithful individuals on earth, the organizations claiming to represent Him have often failed to live up to their names. In fact, such self-serving power structures have often become the persecutors of individuals faithful to God. John 9

Comment by yobec on 2014-08-04 00:24:09

For personal reasons, I am very passionate about this subject. I believe that when you teach people that they have to prove to God that they love him, you also inadvertently teach them that God will only love them back in return, once he is convinced that he is loved. As I mentioned in my earlier post, that notion is in exact opposition of what is found in the scriptures. God loved us first before we ever even could conceive of the depth of his love for us and that realization of his immense love for us, makes us love him back in return.
The fallacy of the “Prove to God that you love him” doctrine can be illustrated by the following:
Imagine yourself as a father who comes home and you find your son or daughter mowing the lawn. You find it quite strange because it is not in his nature to do so unless he is asked. Next, you sit at the table for supper and he is not there. So, you peek through the window and here he is washing your car. You start to wonder what’s going on. Next, during the night, you get up to go to the washroom and you notice lights shining under his bedroom door. You open the door and here he is half asleep while shining your shoes. By now you know something is not quite right so, you ask him what’s going on ? He looks at you with tired eyes and says “Dad, I am doing this because I want to make sure that you know that I love you. Also, I want you to love me.”
What would you do as a father? Would you not take that shoe brush away, hug him and reassure him that the love you have for him is unconditional and not based on his performances.
Many amongst the friends are made to feel that they are never doing enough. Some have developed serious depressions because of that notion, all because they have been taught that they have to PROVE their love for God before he loves them back in return.
I find this sickening.
In Jesus’ illustration of the 2 men in the temple, it was the one who thought he did not measure up that merited God’s favor. It was not the one who thought he was doing all things right.

• Reply by J.D. on 2014-08-04 04:32:45

  Good example Yobec, thank You.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:06:05

    You're welcome

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-04 07:59:59

  yobec, I found this comment so encouraging that I took the time to correct the few spelling mistakes. :) I didn't want anything to detract from your excellent reasoning. Thank you.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:08:40

    Feel free to do so at anytime.English is ot my native tongue. Also , thank you for this site.I feel like I belong here.

• Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-08-04 09:12:26

  Your comment touched me yobec. You are spot on with this . If only I had realized this years ago.....

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:12:45

    You would have if the illustration had appeared in the Watchtower. However, it is doubtfull that it ever will. It would not serve their agenda. Their ageda is for us to wonder if we are ever doing enough.

• Reply by Anjinsan on 2014-08-04 09:34:50

  I really enjoyed the illustration. Thanks Yobec.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:13:12

    You're welcome

• Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-04 10:56:52

  Hi Yobec, good morning. What a touching illustration. I guess God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ have LOVE far greater than what our minds can fathom.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:14:59

    You are right. Remember the scripture that says " He is greater than our hearts" ?

• Reply by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-08-04 11:31:34

  We have to be careful not to let the pendulum swing too much in the other direction either. While God loves the world, and loves us, there is a part of his love that is conditioned on our love as well. The one end of the pendulum is people who get hounded by legalists to do XXX just to get God's love. That is not a scriptural thought. God loved us first.
  On the other hand, there are many biblical expressions, even from our Lord Jesus who for instance in Revelation admonishes the church to RETURN to the love they once had. Or how people who once loved God grew an obstinate heart and refused to listen to God's counsel.
  Balance is the key. God loves you first. We did not earn that right to be loved by God, it's a gift. Nor can we ever lose it as long as we keep going to our Lord Jesus.
  On the other hand, God's love is not forcefully, nor is it due to us. If we grow an obstinate heart, do not heed the master's loving care for us, and do not observe his commandments, he is in FULL RIGHT to remove the lamp standard from us.
  I think your advise is very good though, because I would recon the majority of people here who have been taught by JW doctrine get in a mindset of "I am not good enough" or "I can do more". If their mindset would have been tralala I have God's love nothing can happen to me, I would go the opposite side with the counsel.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-04 12:26:17

    You are absolutely right. The scriptures agree with you that we must "remain in his love"This however is not determined by the amount of spiritual activities we involve ouselves in. It is interesting to note that wen Jesus accuses the congregation of having left the love that they had, he first acknowledges all of their labor.

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-04 14:58:44

    "Balance is the key."
    How true that is, InNeedOfGrace. I have found time and again that the course of moderation--the line between the two extremes--is the best. Only in the "fruits of the spirit" is there no limit, no restriction. (Gal. 5:22, 23)

Comment by Anjinsan on 2014-08-04 07:29:58

For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life... (John 3:16)
That's the greatest act of love, I have come to know. Also for the acts of love in helping me to grow in my personal relationship with him and his son (John 17:3). My new found knowledge has added to this relationship in no small measure.
He loved me first, no doubt, but how do I show my appreciation? It is my constant prayer even for all on this forum and the sister site, that this awakening process would even make us better Christian in holiness and godliness(2 Peter 3;11)

• Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-08-04 09:13:01

  "He loved me first, no doubt, but how do I show my appreciation? It is my constant prayer even for all on this forum and the sister site, that this awakening process would even make us better Christian in holiness and godliness(2 Peter 3;11)"
  Amen!!

Comment by Anjinsan on 2014-08-04 10:35:42

"If our spirit is open to his and not clouded by bias, pride, nor fear, he will reveal himself to each of us."(From updated profile)
I whole heartedly agree. Thanks for the time and effort on the site.

Comment by Mailman on 2014-08-04 11:11:20

I guess it is next to impossible if not impossible at all for the WT writers not to integrate thoughts that will lift, flatter or honor the organization, the Faithful Slave or the Governing Body. Otherwise. it is not Watchtower anymore. I have begun to notice or my eyes have been opened to the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ is being bypassed by the Organization. Isn't this implied usurpation?

Comment by Katrina on 2014-08-04 13:23:51

Once your eyes are opened and you awake, it's the beginning.

• Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-05 01:09:10

  It's the beginning of what Kat? Please elaborate, I will be listening intently. :)

  • Reply by Katrina on 2014-08-05 01:21:56

    Mailman the beginning of a journey of reading Gods word with an open mind without the WT influence on everything you read, and relying on Gods holy spirit rather that 7 men in bethel to tell YOU that you must believe everything they say to be acceptable to God.

    • Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-05 04:15:05

      Hi Kat, I am with you on the same page. I have started doing that since middle part of last year. It was enlightening. I felt the Spirit is more actively helping me. In the absence of fear of the Watchtower, I felt more inspired and delighted.

Comment by menrov on 2014-08-04 15:22:37

I am still reading the article. I can see the value of such an article.....for new comers. I mean, this is a study article, for JWs who had often years of study . The paragraphs 2-5 try to explain if one can love the God we do not see....why asking that? One should assume that a JW already knows that, hence he / she decided to get baptized.i guess this approach (providing milk as a study article) is one of the reasons why most JWs do not really grow in scriptiral knowledge. Only when they join a forum like this, they notice how much more they are learning compared to the years in the congregation.
Regarding the love topic. Yes the father loved the world even before He was loved. And yes, the balance is He does expect something in return : believe or have faith in His Son. It is not like between a guy and girl where they try to convince the other of their love. We cannot win Gods love as he loved us first. By showing faith in His Son we maintain His love for us. Same as a father. As long as your son in law or daughter in law treats your son / daughter fine, you will continue to show your love for him / her. Although I see that the love the Father showed can hardly be compared to anything we can do. The Son showed in a perfect way what this love means when He healed the many people without asking anything in return.

Comment by menrov on 2014-08-04 15:32:22

Jehovah has favored us with the priceless privilege of serving as his Witnesses
Serving the Father (and His Son??) Is open to everyone. It is not an opportunity for the selected few, which in that case would or could be.considered.a.priviledge. unfortunately such statements tend to generate a sense of superioriy among JWs when they compare themselves to non - JWs.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-04 15:43:07

  So true, menrov. This is evident by the overuse of "privilege" in JW-speak. "I was privileged to pioneer" or "I had the privilege of serving as an ministerial servant/elder/circuit overseer" or "My wife and I had the privilege of serving where the need is greater."

• Reply by kev c on 2014-08-04 17:29:58

  Oh the so called privileges they drove me crazy with that concept .It got absolutely stupid in the end .everything became the greatest privilege one could have .Holding a microphone .? Elevated to supreme importance . It just opened the door for the critics to start .if everything wasnt quite right ..Even though its a volunteer service .the attitude was of no real appreciation .For its a privilege to do it a you owe us attitude .despite being a volunteer . It was just expected even demanded.its a shocking concept . And ive never really seen it anywhere else .Talk about putting people down . Kev

  • Reply by menrov on 2014-08-06 08:00:55

    I guess it is a privilege to be able to express freely here :-)

Comment by menrov on 2014-08-04 15:51:36

By obeying those taking the lead among us, we show how much we appreciate these “gifts in men” and give evidence of our love for God and for Christ, the Head of the congregation
This should close the circle : obey. Obey the elders = CO = branch office = GB.

Comment by Jannai40 on 2014-08-04 16:09:39

With regard to answering up at meetings - I used to feel this somewhat promoted a competitive spirit for many when commenting at meetings - especially with the clever answers, pioneering, aux pioneering, getting your children to answer up, placing more magazines and books etc. We were all encouraged to do this - it was evidence that you were making your advancement manifest?

Comment by yobec on 2014-08-04 17:59:25

Several years ago, I visited a brother who had almost completely stopped coming to the meetings. He was suffering with severe depression. Some of those who would come and visit him suggested that if he came to more meetings, his depresion might cease or at least diminish. The doctrine of course was that, the " meetings" is where Jehovah's spirit is and by staying away, he was missing out on it.Needless to say, this teaching caused his depression to worsen.
I developped the habit of dropping by a couple of times a week to see how he was doing and to offer encouragement.
On one such visit,he told me that most every meeting night or early Sunday morning, he would wash up, put his suit on, gather his litterature but as soon as his hand touched the doorknob, he would get an anxiety attack.
His biggest concern however, was that in al of this, he was worried that he was offending Jehovah. He was of the opinion that no matter what, he should be at the meetings and to not do so was somewhat of an insult to the Creator.
Instinctively, due to my past experience,I asked him " What does Jehovah accept as sacrifices ? He said " Well, meetings service etc.." What else ? I asked him. Hmmm. He couldn't think of anything else. I asked him to open up his bible to Isaiah:66:2
where it says that Jehovah looks for those who are "contrite in spirit". Then I reasoned with him. "You think that you don't measure up to Jehovah's requirements and you are consequently hurting inside in your heart, right ?" " Yes," he answered. " How then can it be, that you would think that Jehovah doesn't know you love him? You are broken hearted and contrite in spirit because you think that perhaps in all of this you are somehow offending Jehovah and that thought alone is makng you hurt on the inside. Do you think for one minute that Jehovah is incapable of discerning this spirit of yours? Of course not. You are contrite in spirit and as you have just read, Jehovah's favor is upon such ones."
He got the lesson and started to get emotionaly better from that time onward.
I am using this true life experience to show the emotional damages that can result when we focus solely on performances as the primary indicator of our love for God,
I mentionned earlier that I am quite passionate about this subject so I'm sorry if it seems that I am hogging this topic.
I am done now

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-04 21:36:18

  It is a topic worth being passionate about.

• Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-05 02:10:38

  Problem is that the Organization has successfully painted in our minds the routine we ought to observe and that any deviation from it would make us feel guilty, unworthy, etc. This has serious psychological impact on every JW on the planet, particularly those who have not yet experienced the spiritual awakening. The Governing body has found a way to control our minds, making us believe that spiritual activities inside the Organization are everything to prove our love for God. But the Scriptures would tell otherwise. Time to shift to what the Bible really says, and not stick like a leech on what the Watchtower would like us to do and behave like robots with conscience skewed to the Society.

Comment by Matthew seVen-sixteen on 2014-08-05 01:48:27

I personally am encouraged by the meetings at my own hall. I always come away from them refreshed, ready to face the unkind, satanic world again. At the meetings and at home, I choose to focus more on what's right, positive and faith-strengthening. I'm reminded that in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, Jesus saw what was right and what wasn't with each of the 7 congregations of his organization. Do you think, because of the negative aspects within the congregation today, Jesus would want us to stay or leave? Did he want the brothers to stay or leave the congregation in Smyrna? What about in Pergamos or in Philadelphia? As I said before, I am greatly encouraged by my meetings and the love shown there. The meetings refresh me and I sense God's spirit and blessing at my hall. Now, were I to leave the hall and never go back who benefits from my decision? Who loses? And were I to spend more of my time harboring and handing-out erudite criticism than inciting to love and fine works, who does that help? Who doesn't it help? The conclusion I reach is always this: there is more that's right with the congregation—including its teaching—than isn't. And also: I can glorify God and His Son much more by staying close to Christ’s modern-day stars and lampstands than by staying away from them.

• Reply by Saskawoo on 2014-08-05 18:59:36

  Then what is the reason for going door to door to convert people from their Christian religions, as they may reason as you do about their particular denomination. Does this reasoning justify their actions when they refuse to talk to a Witness in the ministry? If so, then what purpose does pioneering serve? I guess my question is: what special status has been conferred upon the organization that allows it to apply a different standard to itself than the one it uses to judge other Christians?

  • Reply by Saskawoo on 2014-08-05 19:01:02

    im sorry I thought there was an error on my original post so I rewrote it. Is there a way to delete the first one? Sorry!

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-06 09:20:35

      No problem. I restored the original and removed the other one. Let me know if I got it right. :)

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-05 21:28:09

  You make an excellent point Saskawoo. I would very much like to read Matthew's answer, for I feel as you do. If we are to tolerate errors in teaching regarding important issues such as the nature of our salvation because we feel there is a loving environment in the congregation we attend, then on what basis can we criticize a Catholic, Baptist, or Mormon for doing the same?

  • Reply by Matthew seVen-sixteen on 2014-08-06 00:41:12

    As I have already stated...The conclusion I personally have reached is this: there is more that’s right with the congregation—including its teaching—than is not. And by more I mean Abundantly More. Of course it's not perfect, but I am totally convinced and committed to the belief that JW elders and JW congregations ARE God Christ’s modern-day stars and lampstands. I am Totally Convinced and believe JWs have the truth. [Got it now? :)] The learned and illuminated Moderator of this site also once believed that or subscribed to that notion -- for more than 60 years, it would seem. Alas, “faith is not a possession of all people." (2 Thess 3:2) Even old, smart and once-faithful kings Solomon and Asa could not hold onto it. Apparently, we must fight for it, lest Satan, pride, higher learning, and a desire to show our oh-so-noble minds get the better of us. I am absolutely determined that it should not happen to me and pray it never does.

    • Reply by kev c on 2014-08-06 10:35:02

      Righty oh matthew 7.16

      • Reply by kev c on 2014-08-06 10:55:32

        Fair enough you wont get disfellowshipped here for stating what you sincerely believe to be the truth .

    • Reply by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-08-06 16:53:47

      Hi Matthew
      I fully respect where you are coming from and I have the deepest love for you as a brother in Christ. Sites like these and the daughter discussion forums are meant for a platform for brothers and sisters who have come to a different understanding on certain topics.
      I don't think anyone here, especially not Meleti or Apollos have elevated them above their brothers, in fact they are both still in the organization. You will find that many here (including me) still serve in the capacity of pioneers, elders, etc. Others chose a different path.
      At the basis, your understanding should come from personal study, and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Everyone is accountable for testing if they are in the faith, and no one can tell you what YOU should or should not believe. If you have questions or want to explore some topics with us, feel free to do so.
      Allow me to go into some of the things you are suggesting in your post however, with respect of course.
      You mentioned that you are convinced and believe JW have the truth. You link this to faith. Then you go to give an illustration that even wise men like Salomon have lost their faith. Furthermore, you belittle the moderator's intentions.
      My brother, in who should we have faith and in what? The foundation and cornerstone of our faith is Christ. (Psalm 122, Acts 14:11). If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. I can assure you that from all I read in here that both Meleti and Apollos are very much my brothers in Christ. In fact we all partake from the Lord's table.
      I hope and pray that you always make sure your faith is in Jesus and God and not in men. Men can disappoint you, God never fails. And welcome to our discussions ;)

Comment by menrov on 2014-08-05 03:50:03

Matt. 22:37 and 39: is it YOU SHALL, or YOU MUST or LOVE Jehovah / your Neighbour?
I am asking as MUST sounds rather strong (my mother tongue is not English though), and it is a word the society likes to use. Shall sound softer and to me has more of a future act in it, as a result of something. I have also seen transations that start the command with the word LOVE which draws (to me) the focus to LOVE and not MUST. SHALL seems most used/ MUST in a few translations and oters have LOVE without SHALL or MUST.

• Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-05 04:12:10

  I would personally go for "You shall love" translation. I think the word "shall" and not "must" was used in major bible versions, English Standard Version included. Love is never demanded under compulsion by Christ. Love is something expressed voluntarily, naturally. God knows that love springs from the heart.
  A person who does things to prove his love, in some respects, do not have a complete appreciation or understanding of love for God. A person who is forced to do something may go through the motions and even perfect the act yet if he did it w/out love, then everything ends in futility. God sees the innermost part of our hearts. Nobody can fake him.

  • Reply by yobec on 2014-08-05 23:55:17

    Maybe the word MUST as Jesus used it, is more along the line of a requirement rather than a command. Sometimes at a fair, there will be signs posted showing that someone MUST be of a certain height in order to get onto a ride. Obviously in such instances it is used as a requirement and no as a command. You just can't command someone to be of a particular height obviously.
    I am inclined to think this way because I just can't see how someone could have genuine love for God and for his fellowman by virtue of having been commaned to have it.
    This is just my opinion, of course.

Comment by billy on 2014-08-05 16:18:54

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.
1 John 4:7
Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God.
1 John 4:16
And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
1 John 4:21
And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.
1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.
Mark 12:31
The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
1 John 3:18
Little children, we should love, not in word or with the tongue, but in deed and truth
1 Timothy 1:5
Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy.
2 Corinthians 9:7
Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
1 Corinthians 8:1
Now concerning food offered to idols: We know we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
James 2:8
If, now, you carry out the royal law according to the scripture, “You must love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing quite well.
Mark 12:33
and to love him with one’s whole heart, with one’s whole understanding, and with one’s whole strength and to love one’s neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Comment by Matthew seVen-sixteen on 2014-08-06 02:56:04

As I have already stated…The conclusion I *personally* have reached is this: there is more that’s right and true with the congregation and its teaching—than is not. And by more I mean Abundantly More. Of course it’s not perfect, but I am totally convinced and committed to the belief that JW elders and JW congregations ARE God and Christ’s modern-day stars and lampstands (Revelation chapters 1—3). I am Totally Convinced of that and I believe JWs have the truth. The self-assured and illumined Moderator (he doesn't need stars and lampstands any longer) also once believed JWs had the truth or subscribed to that notion — for more than 60 years! Alas, “faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thess 3:2) Even once-faithful kings Solomon and Asa could not hold onto it. Apparently, we must fight for the faith, lest Satan, isolation, pride, higher learning, and a desire to show a more-enlightened viewpoint all get the better of us. I am absolutely determined that it should not happen to me and pray it never does. I’ll stay close to the wonderful and imperfect stars and lampstands Jesus is using today, thank you very much.

Comment by Matthew seVen-sixteen on 2014-08-06 02:56:31

As I have already stated…The conclusion I **personally** have reached is this: there is more that’s right and true with the congregation and its teaching—than is not. And by more I mean Abundantly More. Of course it’s not perfect, but I am totally convinced and committed to the belief that JW elders and JW congregations ARE God and Christ’s modern-day stars and lampstands (Revelation chapters 1—3). I am Totally Convinced of that and I believe JWs have the truth. The self-assured and illumined Moderator (he doesn't need stars and lampstands any longer) also once believed JWs had the truth or subscribed to that notion — for more than 60 years! Alas, “faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thess 3:2) Even once-faithful kings Solomon and Asa could not hold onto it. Apparently, we must fight for the faith, lest Satan, isolation, pride, higher learning, and a desire to show a more-enlightened viewpoint all get the better of us. I am absolutely determined that it should not happen to me and pray it never does. I’ll stay close to the wonderful and imperfect stars and lampstands Jesus is using today, thank you very much.

• Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-08-07 10:56:49

  Hi Matthew seVen-sixteen,
  You said:
  “I can glorify God and His Son much more by staying close to Christ’s modern-day stars and lampstands than by staying away from them.”
  The problem is (if you look at the true un-filtered history of the organization) the evidence does not support the claim that only Jehovah’s Witnesses are the modern-day stars and lampstands.
  Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Jesus inspected all religions between 1914 and 1919.
  And that Jehovah's Witnesses were selected as the one true religion. And that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses were appointed as God’s channel of communication (the “faithful and discreet slave”) starting in 1919.
  “When did Jesus appoint the faithful slave over his domestics? To answer that, we need to go back to 1914—the beginning of the harvest season. As we learned earlier, at that time many groups claimed to be Christian. From which group would Jesus select and appoint the faithful slave? That question was answered after he and his Father came and inspected the temple, or spiritual arrangement for worship, from 1914 to the early part of 1919.* (Mal. 3:1) They were pleased with a small band of loyal Bible Students who showed that their heart was with Jehovah and his Word. Of course, they needed some cleansing, but they humbly responded during a brief period of testing and refining. (Mal. 3:2-4) Those faithful Bible Students were true Christian wheat. In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.” - (Watchtower 2013, 7/15, Pg. 23, Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?)
  Well what does the true history reveal about that time?
  In 1919 Rutherford was president and in charge of the organization. Here is some of what he was teaching:
  - Millions now living will never die
  - Armageddon was coming in 1925
  - The faithful ones of old such as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were going to be resurrected in 1925.
  - The great pyramid of Giza was Gods Stone Witness, and that by measuring it the year 1914 was derived.
  Jehovah’s Witnesses are no different than other religions, they have some things right and some things wrong.
  Some of the reasons I cannot go out in service anymore, and rarely go to meetings is that I am not going to bring somebody into a religion that does the following:
  1) Continues to mislead people with absolute statements that the end is “very soon”. I personally have heard this for 45 years. History shows that they have been doing this for over 100 years. The harsh reality is that they don’t know this for absolutely sure, as history testifies. So it is misleading. - (There are many quotes I could reference. See this one 45 years ago, Awake, May 22, 1969, P. 14, What Future For The Young?)
  2) Requiring un-questioning obedience to 7 imperfect men whether these instructions appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. This is extremism and is cult-like! This is especially disturbing given the fact that they have been wrong many, many times in the past. - (See 2013 Watchtower 11/15, Pg. 20, Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today)
  3) Not telling people before they get baptized, that once baptized, you cannot leave without your friends and family that are witnesses being used against you. Because they would be told to shun you. Since 1980 those who have done nothing wrong, but just no longer want to be a Jehovah’s Witness were to be treated as a sinner. Treated the same as someone disfellowshipped for wrong doing. - (See 1981 Watchtower 9/15, Pg. 23, Par. 14-16, Disfellowshiping—How to View It)
  4) Requiring us to believe their presumptuous speculation. Things that have no scriptural support. We are supposed to just believe it because they say it is so. Case in point is the overlapping generation teaching for Matt. 24:34. There is absolutely no scriptural support given for this. - (See 2014 Watchtower, January 15 p.30-31, “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When?)
  5) A religion that practices secretiveness. ( As seen from the recent BOE letter where the elders are told NOT to read pages 2 – 4 of the letter, in an effort to hide the fact that a loan is not really forgiven, but just re-named from loan to donation. )

Comment by Anjinsan on 2014-08-06 07:06:23

Matthew 7:16 What is your biblical definition of truth?
Jesus did not fault the teachings of the seven stars/lampstands he wrote to, theirs was not a case of what is more right with the teaching than isn't. Why? Because they did their best to retain a common foundation, the Christ. "For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."(1 Cor.3:11). I would be the loser if because of an individual (be it a person or an entity) I choose not to be a Christian.
King Solomon and King Asa were leaders of the nation of Israel, their actions showed they lacked faith in God, not in the nation of Israel.( 1 Kings 11: 9,10; 1Kings 15:16-22) They may have had a better record if they behaved like Moses who at a point lost confidence in the nation of Israel, (Undisputedly God's people at that point.) but retained his faith in God.
Asa also made another mistake. According to the parallel account in 2 Chronicles 16:7-10, when God sent a seer named Hanani to rebuke Asa for his political alliance, the king was angry and put the prophet in prison. He did not like the message so he decided to get rid of the messenger. The Jewish leaders did not like the truth that Stephen spoke, they determined to get rid of the messenger by stoning him to death (Acts 7:51-60). Paul experienced the same attitude when some became his enemy because he told them the truth (Galatians 5:16). This is as a result of a wrong attitude towards God and His word. Please draw your own conclusion.
If your personal conviction makes you a better Christian I am very happy for you. Same way I would be for a member of the 7th day Adventist church, The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints, etc. that have the same convictions that enable them to be better Christians.
They were some commendations in this article too or did you not notice it? Let me end by quoting another comment on love. I choose to take it from the book of 2nd Thess. 3: you quoted from initially.
"May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ".(2nd Thess. 3:5).
Christian Freedom is Beautiful.
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Comment by Mailman on 2014-08-07 06:20:11

Hi Meleti, good morning dear brother. If not that confidential, how many are the average monthly viewers of this site, more or less? Thanks

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-08-07 09:03:26

  The site is two years old. The number of views and visitors in 2012 was negligible. If we take the four-month period just ended (April-July) we have the following WordPress stats:
  Average Monthly Views
  2013 - 6129
  2014 - 20042
  Average Monthly Visitors
  2013 - 913
  2014 - 2899

  • Reply by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-08-07 10:41:17

    2,899? wow! That's brilliant ;)

  • Reply by Mailman on 2014-08-07 10:47:54

    Thanks for supplying the data. Maybe 90% of the avg monthly visitors are our fellow JW brothers or should we say now, JW.ORG preachers and promoters. :)

Comment by Kian Swee Lim on 2014-08-09 00:05:57

Matthew 6-17,are you really willing to "listen,obey & be blessed...." by the G.B. members & let them do the thinking for you?I decided to think out of the box & made comments beyond the confines of the magazines,j.w. org & WTBTS publications - even drew(mentally) pictures & commented on these mental pictures & not the ones in the magazines.E.g. I commented that Bible plus secular education is better than just Bible or secular education.Well,they no longer allow me to comment at the meetings.I'm not a J.W. or an unbaptized publisher but have been associating & "learning" from them for many years.I now prefer to attend a local church.

Comment by on 2014-08-11 14:57:32

My question on one of the paragraphs in this study article was-Do some 7 million and something JW's really love God? How do they know what the motives of the friends really are for serving Jehovah? When did love for God become a group thing?

Comment by on 2014-08-11 17:21:14

The brother conducting the WT study yesterday said that the only ones counted among those 7 million or so who God loves are those that turn in a Field Service Report. The implication--------no field sevice report-no love. Corporate reasoning at it's best!