Re 20:5 - When Do the Rest of the Dead Come to Life?

Comment by ANTONINVS on 2016-01-25 02:46:45

The rest of the dead come to life after the thousand years. There is not one solitary scripture that says differently. Not one.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-01-25 07:22:39

  Quite true. However, the real question is when are they resurrected. As you will see form this discussion, their resurrection and their coming to life are two separate events.

Comment by Willy on 2016-01-25 08:44:12

If their resurrection is one to life depends imhv on their positive response under the rule of Jesus during the 1000 years.

Comment by Father jack on 2016-01-25 10:19:30

Revelation 20 v 4 and 5 seem to say that coming to life and the first ressurection are the same thing , for it says that (this is the first ressurection ) so when it says the rest of the dead did not come to life until after the thousand years have ended the logical conclusion would be that this is describing the second ressurection ( the ressurection of judgement that christ spoke of ) confirming this is the context where scrolls were opened and these were judged according to thier deeds . These if not found in the book of life would be subject to the 2nd death . Perhaps meaning that they had not been judged worthy of a ressurection at all . However i do think that at the general ressurection there will be a lot of people who were good people and will be found in the book of life as thier conscience is clear . This is logical as billions have not had the chance to put faith in christ to be declared righteous due to faith in his name . That to me is the simplest explanation . Perhaps im wrong . FJ ..ps im not going to be offended and shun anyone who thinks different . Meleti sorry one day ill get around to joining the other discussion formats . Cheers

Comment by sopaterofberoea on 2016-01-25 13:23:06

I continue to struggle with a clear picture of the meaning of this verse, I'm still contending with my filtered JW mindset.
Concerning Rev 20:3:
"And he threw him into the abyss, and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, so that he could not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time."
"So that he could not deceive the nations ANY LONGER seems to suggest that the nations (Gentiles) are present at the beginning and during the millennium. That means Armageddon is the destruction of only the worldly governments and military leaders?
Verse 4 mentions those sitting on the thrones (the 144,000 symbolically - Christians) came alive (first resurrection) and ruled with Christ for the thousand years. Christians who had died pre-millennium are brought back to life to rule at or immediately after Armageddon.
They are given authority to judge during the millennium. Who do they judge? At face value, it seems they are judging the non-Christians (Gentiles).
"The rest of the dead" that is raised up appears to be non-Christians, who will be raised just before Satan is released from his prison. They will then be judged by whether they are mislead by the Devil (Rev 21:8)
From the above, I'm inclined to view that the resurrection of the unrighteous (second resurrection) occurs at the end of the thousand years. The judgment of John 5:28,29 is their actions during the time when Satan misleads the Gentiles to the four corners of the earth. This seems to correlate with Rev 20:13
I've always struggled making sense of Rev 21:8. JW teaches this happens at Armageddon. It never made sense because the second death is not introduced until the end of the thousand years.
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving (Gentiles) and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake of fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Viewing that the unrighteous are not resurrected until the end, and then judged by buy whether or not they are mislead, really resonates right now.
Sopater

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-01-25 14:17:47

  We're having quite an active discussion on this here.
  I believe they are judged as unrighteous based on not availing themselves (or not being able to avail themselves) of Christ's ransom. Hence non-Christians or false Christians make up the resurrection of the unrighteous. These are resurrected during the 1,000 years. Whether at the end or at the beginning or progressively, the Bible does not say, but it has to be before the 1,000 years are over because 1Co 15:25-28 indicates that death is no more by that time meaning that all those who were in the graves have come out and the graves are empty, hence no more Adamic death. There are a number on the forum who hold to a very literal view of Re 20:5, though their literal-mindness is confined to that verse. However, to date, no one will answer how death can be destroyed while there are still dead in the grave.

  • Reply by Anonymous on 2016-01-25 16:43:58

    I take this to mean that we should be fearful of the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. The rest of the dead who come to life at the end of the thousand years will experience a resurrection of judgement. Those who Jesus judges as unfit and unrepentant will undergo the second death. Once this judgement has come to pass and death and Hades have been thrown into the lake of fire, it simply means that from that point on, no one will die anymore. Only the righteous will remain. It simply means that there is no coming back from the second death, because once death has been thrown into the lake of fire it permanently seals their fate. It is symbolic of course, as you cannot throw a non-literal thing (death) into a literal thing (fire). The righteous who remain will never experience or fear death again, having put on immortality.

  • Reply by Anonymous on 2016-01-25 16:51:50

    Notice too that while others will rule with Jesus for a thousand years, it doesn't limit the length of Jesus rule. The rest of the dead come to life at the end of the thousand years. Jesus is technically the only one left ruling at this point. He is the one who will bring the last enemy death, to nothing. How fitting. Only then will he hand back the kingdom to his Father.

• Reply by Father jack on 2016-01-26 04:16:31

  Looking at revelation 20 v 11 to 15 and then revelation 21 v 1to 8 i think it likely that these both speak of the same event . Im pretty sure the watchtower place revelation 21 at the beginning of the millenium rule . However paul at 1 corinthians 15v 23 to 28 gives us a sequence of events regarding the ressurection . The millenial rule of christ lasts until the last enemy death has been defeated . Then he will subject himself so that god may be all things to everyone . Now look at revelation 21 v 3 and 4 again .

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2016-01-26 06:44:00

  I was reading these passages at the meeting the other day and came to the same (sort of) conclusion Sopater. Rev 20:3, who are the nations if they've already been destroyed? Rev 21:8 particularly.... I was whispering to my husband to read it and see what he made of it, especially as the context suggests these wicked people would be there after the New Jerusalem has come down from heaven. Of course we're told that revelation is not in chronological order.... And the second death means that IF anyone acts wickedly in the future after the thousand years they'll be immediately obliterated to the second death etc... But it doesn't sit well with me and my thoughts are in line with your conclusions. In the end my husband and I shrugged and said what we say a lot these days.... " ah well, we'll find out one day!"

  • Reply by Father jack on 2016-01-26 11:21:40

    I think though we have to remember that this is a prophecy of the judgement god will bring in the future a warning and encouragement to avoid bad conduct . Verse 7 and 8 may be an exhortatation to those alive from johns era onward . If we compare the verses with chapter 20 v 11 to 15 it says that the dead were judged . Is this not the general ressurection which includes all those who have lived down through history .

Comment by Father jack on 2016-01-25 16:24:49

One of the problems i have with the watchtower interpretation is that it requires that a person be raised during the thousand years to a corruptable mortal body of flesh once more . Where as when the bible itself speaks of the ressurection as far as i can see anyway , speaks of a ressurection of a spiritual uncorruptable body 1 corinthians 15 , matthew 22;29,30 we could say that these verses apply only to the first ressurection and not the other when mentioned at revelation 20 v5 but does the bible indicate that or are we moving into speculation there .

Comment by Anonymous on 2016-01-25 18:03:00

We cannot understand Revelation until we see it taking place, otherwise men would have the glory.
Prophecy revealed before our eyes gives glory to God.
Joshua

• Reply by Anonymous on 2016-01-25 18:23:29

  Just as Christ fulfilled prophecy not understood by the Jews of his day so also there are elements of Christ's return that we today will not understand until we see it.
  Joshua