At the 5-minute mark, Flodin says:
“When our current understanding first came out, some quickly speculated. They said, “Well, what if a person in his forties was anointed in 1990? He would then be a part of the second group of this generation. Theoretically, he could live into his eighties. Does that mean this old system is going to continue, possibly till 2040? Well, indeed that was speculative. And, ah, Jesus…remember he said that we weren’t supposed to find a formula of the time of the end. In Matthew 24:36, just two verses later—two verses later—he said, “concerning that day and hour, nobody knows.”
“And even if the speculation is a possibility, there’d be very few in that category. And consider this significant point: There’s nothing, nothing, in Jesus’ prophecy that suggests those in the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit and close to death. There’s no reference to age.”
“Well, Jesus said simply that this generation would all pass away…would not all pass away… before he comes to full kingly power…our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, Jesus’ prophecy could reach its culmination this year and be absolutely accurate. Not all of the second group of this generation would have passed away.”
Here Flodin mildly rebukes the reasoning that some use to set an upper limit to the length of the generation, terminating in 2040. ‘This is speculative’, he says. This appears like reasonable thinking, but then he immediately undermines his own logic when he next says, “even if the speculation is a possibility, there’d be very few in that category.”
What are we to take from that?
While acknowledging at least the possibility that the speculation could be true, he shows it would be improbable because there would be “very few in that category”—meaning that too many would have died off to make the possibility likely.
What are we to conclude?
Given that the end must come before all of the second group are dead, the only option Flodin leaves us with is that it will likely come sooner than 2040.
Next, in a backhanded boost to this kind of thinking, he says, “There’s nothing, nothing, in Jesus’ prophecy that suggests those in the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit and close to death.”
The current Governing Body are representative of this group. If they will not be "old, decrepit, and close to death" when the end comes, how much time is left? Again, while appearing to condemn those setting a time limit, he strongly implies the time left is very short.
While saying that Jesus said we were not to “find a formula of the time of the end” and adding that those who tried it are engaging in speculation, Flodin is leading his listeners to no other conclusion other than to believe the end is likely much closer than 2040.
For the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses serving today, this kind of reasoning is new, and likely very exciting. There is however a relatively small group of older ones for whom this presents an unpleasant reminder of past failures. I’ve often heard newer ones dismiss 1975, saying that we never really said the end was coming then, but that it was just some brothers getting carried away. Having lived through those days, I can attest that this was simply not the case. (See “The Euphoria of 1975”) Nevertheless, the publications were carefully worded to engender belief in the significance of that year without actually fully committing to it. The reader was left with no doubt as to what he was expected to believe. And here we go yet again.
Have we learned from our mistakes? Absolutely, we have learned from them, and we are thus able to repeat them exactly!
The misapplication of Matthew 24:34 has misled thousands and changed the course of countless lives; and here we are doing it yet again, but this time with an entirely fabricated doctrine based on a definition of generation that is nowhere to be found in the Bible, nor in the world for that matter.
Shame on us!
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Comment by Mr Noodle on 2016-05-26 22:31:06
The first line should read " When our current speculation first came out, some quickly speculated.........."
The whole twisted mess makes the mind boggle doesn't it!
Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-05-27 04:02:21
I haven't seen the video yet Meleti, but let me guess...The message went something like this:
"Jesus did not mention a generation so we could make some calculation....and we shouldn't be
making any calculations....but if you really want to make some sort of calculation...this is a
calculation that will get you pretty close......"
Sounds like the Feb 15/08 Watchtower allllllllll over again!
Just to show you how confused they are at the top, the Feb 15/08 WT referred to the group older than Joseph, then Joseph, then those that lived after him...three groups! Then the June 15/10 WT box on p.25 shows brother Barr only referring to two groups that overlap. He hoped to be alive for the GT and therefore pushed the idea of two groups because he would have been of the second group. Of course, the two group explanation of brother Barr would have been okay when he and Jaracz and the rest of older ones were still around. With their deaths very shortly after, the new GB has had to push the 3 group policy and therefore extend it. I'm sure the end is not as far away as 2040, but if I didn't wish for God's Kingdom to come sooner, then I would definitely love to see what they would say if the end didn't come by 2040. That would be sweet! Who knows, maybe it will take a while and we'll all live to see it.
I'm of the opinion that Jesus was only talking about the wicked "generation" that rejected him (Mt 11:16; 12:38-45; 16:4; 23:33-36). If he had wished to talk about the generation of his faithful disciples who were sitting in front of him in the moment, he would have said "YOUR generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." I think his words were only meant to emphasize that the wicked generation that rejected him and killed him would live to see their day of judgment. I could be wrong, so don't quote me on that. We can all ask Jesus what he REALLY meant in the future!
Much love,Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-05-27 11:57:15
I believe you are correct in saying "Jesus was only talking about the wicked "generation" that rejected him". I did a three-article analysis of this starting with This Generation – A Fresh Look. It was cathartic to finally abandon all the JW preconceptions and allow the Bible to speak for itself.
Comment by tyhik on 2016-05-27 08:55:46
Doing it again? Sure. Up to now we could do it 1-2 times per generation. I mean, real generation. Because older ones have been trained to keep silent and young ones have always been eager to ignore the past and learn their own lessons.
I think Internet is changing the game though. It allows to make our past errors so visible that speculations fueling world end expectations can really work only on the young ones raised in "truth". Because they are the only people in the world who won't look beyond jw.org.
I am just an unbaptized publisher myself. It's correct to say that my progress towards baptism has been stopped because of the easy access to the information on the Internet.
Comment by tyhik on 2016-05-27 09:10:16
I'm really trying not to sound negative here. The end part of the video concentrated on how right we have been. The exact date of baptism of that old chap did not even matter to the doctrine just pushed. And this was a Morning what?
Comment by john971 on 2016-05-27 12:26:25
Their engaging in this speculation is another point showing how barren their tree of knowledge, teaching and understanding is. They know that the scriptures tell us that no one knows the day or the hour. But when did the scriptures being silent on things ever get in the way of driving up anticipation?
There is no spirit directed insight here. Purely musings of men who use double talk, veiled as being directions from God. Sad.
Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-05-27 13:29:08
Hi Meleti. I haven't read those 3 articles, yet it appears we are on the same page. Just another example that shows that the truth is SIMPLE and Jesus can bring about unity of thought through the working of the HS. I'll be reading those articles soon to see if there's more I can learn. I do appreciate your articles, so remember that your time invested is worth it!
This meandering of the GB reminds me of a mechanic that guesses at what the problem on your car is. He then tell you that you need Part "A" replaced. You believe him and get it replaced and it doesn't fix the problem. He then convinces you that the problem is something else and you need Part "B". He replaces it and the problem is still there. Then Part "C", then part "D", etc.. Would these repeated mis-diagnosis and changing of parts convince you that he is a capable mechanic and knows what he is talking bout? At what point would you get tired of him taking wild guesses? The GB has done so much guessing. Do they not realize that thinking people can see that they are not sure of themselves on this teaching? As Raymond Franz predicted, their bedsheet keeps ending up being too short, so they keep having to stretch it every 2 or 3 decades to cover themselves!
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2016-05-27 14:46:30
Each attempt at discussing the generation is an undermining of the GB credibility. I wonder how many will be stumbled this time. Oh, by the way, thanks for pointing me to the article "labeling the apostate", Meliti.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-05-27 15:19:03
Actually, it is quite remarkable the mileage they continue to get out of this often-reworked doctrine. Most Adventist-style religious offshoots collapse when their predictions fail, yet JW leadership has successfully re-crafted this and other doctrines time and again and continued to engender excitement in false expectations. Now almost eight million are buying into this.
Comment by Keaton on 2016-05-27 16:41:29
First off, we have to put this video in it's proper context, this video premiered nearly 1 month after the September broadcast talking the Nonsense of the Generation Teaching Non sense. Why????
Well first off, during that time the CO's were making there round's and guess what almost in every talk they mention how the September Broadcast Cleared Up this Teaching. No really he used the word teaching, and How Splain Excellent Explained it...HOLD FOR Laughter.... Right!!
Anyway a lot of people were even more confused cause there is no Biblical Teach That The Bible Teaches of this. And so in the GB Mighty Knowledge ( I am being humorous here I really want to say something else) they decided to have there little helper dude try to go and say hey everyone this teaching is again being Decoded for you again. In love he said Splain Explained it just so well, and he was not gonna touch it. Well because no Human Person can Decode all this Pure Nonsense. And of course he mentions a few of there changes of this Teaching, only a few, of Course I love how when you look about on really how many times this Teaching was changed from Russell time cause he thought the Generation was the one gonna be finished with in 1914, you know when the world was gonna end. To all its transformations now and the Generation Teachings Changed since 1995 over 4 changes, Yup This is a Divine Organization, Please, Don't go Beyond What is Written, This Organization is pure Nonsense of the Highest order.
Excuse while I return to My Jw Bunker Video and to watch the Newly Released Video of the Jw Convention of shunning. Wow wow.
May Our Father Yahweh and his Mighty Son Yahshua give Love to you all.
Keaton
Comment by AndereStimme on 2016-05-28 16:39:17
If you, in all sincerity, were to predict something was going to happen very soon - within a decade or so - and strongly encourage people to make life-altering decisions based on your prediction, what would you do if your prediction didn't come true? Would you expect a mature Christian to apologize and to manifest a sincere desire to not repeat the offense?
Or would you expect the mature Christian to wait a few decades and then, after concocting a preposterous justification, do the exact same thing all over again? No apologies, no remorse - not even a little self-consciousness in the light of past failures - just an in-your-face repeat of the exact same offense?
I'm going to stop here before I violate the commenting guidelines. Can you tell I find this subject infuriating?
Comment by The Rise and Fall of JW.org | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2016-06-19 11:38:57
[…] Kenneth Flodin, a Helper to the Teaching Committee, gave a video presentation on JW.org in which he rebuked those using the latest generation doctrine to calculate […]
Comment by Thaddeus on 2017-01-25 16:13:29
Here we are now well into our study of this book, it is tough to keep a poker face. I'm having real difficulty not discussing it with others since some of the false statements are so obvious. Especially when I take into consideration this weeks study article "They Broke Free From False Religion ".
Comment by “Trust in Jehovah and Do What is Good” | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2017-02-26 19:12:46
[…] Why would Noah want the Flood to come sooner? The time was predetermined and apparently made known to God’s faithful servants back then. (Ge 6:3) It seems that the Governing Body is trying to deal with the increasing level of disillusionment among Witnesses who have seen too many failed prophetic interpretations concerning the end. The current one has them believing that Armageddon will come well before the current Governing Body dies of old age. (See They’re Doing It Again.) […]
Comment by Rod Hucker on 2017-03-03 05:38:15
Hi all, am i miscalculating? If a "man in his forties is anointed in 1990", at age 80 it would be 2030, not 2040. At 2040, he would be at least 90... getting on a bit...
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-03-03 08:15:39
Welcome, Roddles. Yes, you are correct. Linking the end to the current Governing Body really shortens the time left to them.
Comment by Who Is Leading Jehovah’s People Today? | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2017-04-23 20:07:54
[…] [ii] See They’re Doing It Again. […]
Comment by Jehovah Provides Comfort in All Our Trials | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2017-07-30 18:06:22
[…] the end will come before the current members of the Governing Body are old and decrepit. (See They’re Doing It Again.) Given their ages, we’re talking in the 8 to 10 year range—15 […]