[From ws17/7 p. 22 – September 18-24]
“Find exquisite delight in Jehovah, and he will grant you the desires of your heart.” — Ps. 37:4
(Occurrences: Jehovah=31; Jesus=10)
This week’s study article is all about encouraging Witnesses to have more to do in the disciple-making work that results preaching the Good News. There is nothing wrong with that, right? Correct! We should all do our utmost to follow Jesus’ command to—
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Mt 28:19, 20)
Of course, Catholics, and Protestants, and Baptists, and Pentecostals, and Methodists, and Presbyterians, and Mormons, and…well, you get the picture—all of them would claim that they have been preaching the good news and making disciples long before Rutherford named his Bible Students as “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
As a Jehovah’s Witness, would you say that their disciple making is approved by God? Would you agree that the good news they are preaching is the real Good News?
I think it is safe to say that any Jehovah’s Witness worth his salt would tell us that being a zealous preacher in any other Christian denomination would not bring God’s approval, because every religion outside of the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses corrupts the good news by teaching false doctrines originating with men.
Jesus did say that his true followers would worship the Father in spirit and truth, so it seems a valid argument to make that false teachings would corrupt the message of the Good News. (John 4:23, 24) Paul warned the Galatians about this saying that deviating from the pure message of the Good News would bring reproach and condemnation. (Gal 1:6-9)
So we won't argue the point that a Witness would make in condemning the preaching of other religions as invalid due to their false doctrines. However, doesn't the brush paint all surfaces?
Are Jehovah’s Witness making true disciples of Jesus Christ? Do Witness converts view Jesus in the proper way, as he is represented in Scripture? Are they preaching the same Good News that Jesus and the first century Christians preached?
Since this is a Watchtower study article review, we’ll confine ourselves to what is revealed in this Watchtower issue alone. We really don’t have to go beyond that.
The Goal of this Article
As you read the entire article, you’ll see that its goal is to get Jehovah’s Witnesses to reach out for more “privileges of Kingdom service”. These privileges include becoming a regular pioneer (a.k.a. “a full-time preacher”)[i], working on construction projects for the Organization, and serving as a Bethelite.
Are any of these activities endorsed by Jesus Christ? Did Jesus set us a goal of reporting 70 hours a month as a so-called full-time preacher? Did He tell us that “Kingdom service” includes building beautiful office buildings, printeries, Bethel homes, or assembly and kingdom halls? Did first century Christians do any of that? What about living a monastic lifestyle as a Bethelite?
If we cannot find Scriptural support for these aspects of what is currently called “Kingdom service”, then at the very least, we have to put them on the shelf for the time being and look for other evidence, before we can blithely claim that doing any of these things fulfills the command at Matthew 28:19, 20.
Accreditation for these Service Privileges
A Witness will claim that the foregoing are all accredited aspects of our service to Jehovah, because these are so declared by the Governing Body which has been appointed by Christ as the faithful and discreet slave.
There are several very serious problems with this understanding.
First, there’s no evidence that Jesus made such an appointment. The Governing Body claim he appointed them back in 1919. There is a major problem with that assertion however. Up until 2012, the official teaching was that the faithful and discreet slave was comprised of all anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses. So for almost a century, those appointed to be the faithful and discreet slave didn’t know they were the faithful and discreet slave. This would make Jesus Christ one of the poorest communicators in history since it took him 95 years to properly inform his appointees of their new appointment. Instead, tens of thousands thought they were appointed when they were not.
I don’t know about you, but I find it hard to believe that our Lord could mess up communications that badly. Isn't it more likely that the blame lies elsewhere.
Second, this alleged appointment of the GB as the faithful slave leaves three other slaves unaccounted for. There's the evil slave, the unwillingly disobedient slave, and the knowingly disobedient slave. That means that only 1/4 of the parable at Luke 12:41-48 is understood. So Jesus waited 95 years after the date to inform the Governing Body they were his pick, but still leaves us hanging as regards the other three positions yet to be filled?
Third, we have the job description. Essentially, the role of the faithful slave is that of a waiter. He feeds his fellow slaves. Nothing there to authorize him to make up new rules, or to create new categories for what is to be considered sacred service to God. Nothing there about him being a channel of communication, the voice of God. True, it does speak of a slave the acts in a domineering way, like a governor or ruler or leader of his fellow slaves, but that one is called “wicked”. (Luke 12:45)
Fourth, the most serious problem with this understanding is that the slave is both faithful and discreet (or wise). Let’s set aside the “discreet” aspect and concentrate on the “faithful” instead. “Faithful” to whom? Well, according to the parable, to the Master. And who is the master depicted in the parable? Without question, it is the Christ?
Is the Governing Body faithful to the Christ. In last week’s study we saw that they emphasized Jehovah 53 times but failed to give praise to Jesus even once! Is this week any better? Well, Jehovah is emphasized 31 times with phrases like:
- Jehovah urges you to plan wisely for your future - par. 2
- To those who reject his advice, Jehovah says - par. 2
- Jehovah is glorified when his people make wise choices in life - par. 2
- What plans does Jehovah recommend for you? - par. 3
- “I like serving Jehovah full-time because it’s the way I express my love for him..." - par. 7
- "I wanted to tell them about Jehovah, so after a while I made plans to learn their language. " - par. 8
- You also learn how to work closely with Jehovah. - par. 9
- “I like preaching the good news because it is what Jehovah asks us to do. - par. 10
- There are many opportunities to serve Jehovah. - par. 11
- “Ever since I was a little boy, I have wanted to serve Jehovah full-time someday..." - par. 12
- Some who acted on their plans to serve Jehovah full-time are now at Bethel. Bethel service is a happy way of life because everything you do there is for Jehovah. - par. 13
- "...I love serving here because what we do helps people to draw close to Jehovah.” - par. 13
- How can you plan to be a full-time Christian minister? More than anything, spiritual qualities will help you to be successful in serving Jehovah fully. - par. 14
- Jehovah is pleased to use those who have a humble, willing spirit. - par. 14
- You can be sure that Jehovah wants you to “get a firm hold” on a happy future. - par. 16
- Consider what Jehovah is doing in our time and how you can have a share in his service. - par. 17
Jesus is mentioned 10 times in this study, but never in the same context as Jehovah. We are not told that we are ‘serving Jesus’ (Ro 15:16) or that we need to ‘learn how to work closely with Jesus’ (Ro 8:1; 1Co 1:2, 30) or ‘that preaching the good news is what Jesus asks us to do’ (Mt 28:19, 20) or that we should ‘draw close to Jesus.’ (Mt 18:20; Eph 2:10) or that we should love Jesus (Phm 1:5; Eph 3:17; Phil 1:16) or that Jesus is glorified in us (2Th 1:12) or that we should tell people about Jesus. (Re 12:17)
No, it is all about Jehovah and nothing about his beloved Son whom he appointed over everything and everyone. Instead, Jehovah’s Witnesses treat the Great King as a mere exemplar, a model for us to follow. This is usually how Jesus is used in the publications of late.
- Jesus Christ set the perfect example for you young ones - par. 4
- Jesus also drew close to Jehovah by studying the Scriptures. - par. 4
- Jesus grew up to be a happy adult. - par. 5
- Doing what God asked him to do made Jesus happy. - par. 5
- Jesus enjoyed teaching people about his heavenly Father. - par. 5
- Showing love for God and for others made Jesus happy. - par. 5
- Jesus continued to learn during his earthly ministry. - par. 7
One has only to use the WT Library program, to see how wrong this is. Enter (sans quotes) “Jesus | Christ” to get every occurrence for either or both words in a sentence to see the glory, praise, honor, love and importance heaped on God’s Son in the Holy Word. This is all the more remarkable when one realizes that the name “Jehovah” does not appear in any of the 5000+ extant manuscripts. The NWT has inserted it arbitrarily.
Now contrast that with the past two Watchtower studies (not to mention countless ones before this) to see that the writers are not being faithful at all. Faith in Jesus means humble recognition of his exalted status. Giving praise and honor to Jehovah without “kissing the Son” actually dishonors God and results in His and the Son’s wrath.
“Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed And YOU may not perish [from] the way, For his anger flares up easily. Happy are all those taking refuge in him.” (Ps 2:12)
The Good News of the Governing Body
If you are thinking of becoming a regular pioneer because you want to preach the good news of the kingdom, you do well to meditate on these words:
“I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.” (Ga 1:6-9)
This is what Witnesses accuse other religions of doing: preaching another good news; a counterfeit good news. Those who do this are cursed by God. Not a pleasant prospect!
Witnesses preach a good news whereby the hope is to live as a sinner for 1,000 years after which one can be declared righteous. In the interim, one is only God’s friend, but cannot be his Son, and cannot have Jesus as his mediator. Please try to find support for this teaching in the Bible. If you cannot, then are you wise to promote these doctrines as the good news of the Christ? Would that please God? By doing so, might you not be a proselyte or disciple of the Governing Body, instead of a disciple of Christ?
I recently tried to reason with some friends along these lines in some correspondance. I touched on only one doctrine, and avoided a confrontational approach. My thought was to see if there was room for discussion.
Their response proves that the Governing Body has been successful in removing Jesus from his role as our leader and inserting themselves in his place—in sitting on the throne of the King as it were.
They wrote in part:
“As you know [we] are completely convinced that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the faithful and discreet slave and entrusted with the responsibility of helping the household of faith to understand and follow Jehovah’s Word the Bible. In short, we believe this to be Jehovah’s organization. We are trying our very best to stay close to it and the direction it is giving us. We feel this is a matter of life and death. I can well imagine that a moment will come when we will be staking our very lives upon the following of direction that Jehovah gives us through the organization. We will be willing to do that.”
“The close friends we choose have to have that same conviction. For that reason:”
“We would like to respectfully and kindly ask you where you stand on that matter of this being Jehovah’s organization under the divinely appointed direction of the faithful slave/Governing Body.” [Italics theirs]
They speak of Jehovah and they speak of the Governing Body, but where is Jesus? If you are willing to make a “life and death” decision based solely on the instructions from men, then in the most complete sense of the word, you accept them as your leaders. What then of Jesus' commandment at Matthew 10:23, “Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.” Witnesses who are willing to make a life-and-death choice based on faith in men have put themselves in the same boat as every Christian who has gone to war and killed (or died) in the name of God because his leaders told him to.
Notice how willingly my friends have surrendered their conscience and freedom to the will of men, trusting in such ones for salvation. Can we disregard the command of God and escape with impunity? He tells us:
“Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.” (Ps 146:3)
We now have a community of millions who think as these do. They join the billions of the world's religions in giving allegiance to men.
An Affirmation of Allegiance
Above, I alleged that the Governing Body has been successful in replacing Jesus as the leader of those Christians who identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses. If you think this is a bold and unsubstantiated claim, consider the evidence. The response of my friends is hardly atypical. In fact, it is disturbingly common. In this case, we are talking about two intelligent individuals. They are kind, easy-going, and not prone to judgment. Yet, when I raised a single issue that concerned me (the overlapping generations doctrine) did they address my concern? Did they even mention it? No, the go-to response was to question my loyalty to men. They would only remain my friend if I affirmed my allegiance to the Governing Body.
This has now happened more times than I can keep track of, and I've heard the same from countless others. This is the pattern. You voice a legitimate concern and instead of addressing the issue raised, you hear a demand for a statement of fealty or loyalty toward the Governing Body.
This was not the way it was. If I challenged something in the publications from years ago, no one asked if I believed Brother Knorr was God's appointed channel of communication? No one said, "Do you think you know more than Brother Knorr?"
When intelligent men and women surrender their power of reason and deal with a disagreement by demanding an affirmation of allegiance—what is for all intents and purposes, an oath of fealty—something very dark and unchristian is taking place.
___________________________________________________________________
[i] To be fair, 70 hours a month does not constitute full-time work of any kind. A worker that puts in less than 20 hours a week in an office or factory is considered a part-time employee.
Archived Comments
We have moved to the Disqus commenting system. To post a new comment, go to the bottom of this page.
Comment by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 02:18:32
Remember Jim Jones and David Koresh.
With all this talk of bunkers and the message changing to a judgment message, I've been wondering if they're on a path of bringing extreme persecution upon themselves.
Rutherford did it through the 30s and 40s.Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 16:47:02
That scenario sounds plausible, I've been wondering where they're going with all of these changes and takeovers.
What's really funny is our lesson last night spoke at length about how we do not solicit money. Then lo and behold, a letter was read at the end of the Meeting from "the branch" saying "we need $14 per 'publisher' to cover expenses" and the Congregation voted a resolution (almost unanimously) to pay it in 12 installments. No one batted an eye about the irony of it. I calculated $14 per person per year is $112,000,000. Divided by 52 weeks it's roughly 2.1 million per week, divided by 365 days it comes to $307K per DAY!
This is not soliciting for money in the eyes of my brothers and sisters. They may as well have passed the plate.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-21 18:49:02
Was that letter read out everywhere, in all countries?
Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-09-21 20:27:35
Hi Thad,
Was that $14/publisher maybe just your Congregation's annual resolution ( for monthly payments ) to send to the Branch or was it something above and beyond? Some congregations are "renewing" their annual "pledge" around now- new service year.
Comment by Warp Speed on 2017-09-17 19:01:53
Indeed, years ago a disagreement on some issues would not automatically incur a standard response of accusations of disloyalty. Very disturbing to say the least. Many on this forum have indentified this situation and are voting with their feet.....
Reply by katrina on 2017-09-24 06:32:26
Don't think of becoming a Special Pioneer we can't support you so just be a regular that's cool doesn't cost us a razoooooo
Comment by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-17 19:30:05
Who is Paul? Who is Apollos? Who is the GB? Are they not merely men?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-18 07:57:17
Yes, Paul's argument to the Corinthians completely invalidates the position JWs have taken vis-a-vis the GB.
Comment by Smoldering Wick on 2017-09-17 21:21:23
Good review Meleti. I'm sure you don't need further analysis as your exploration drive through America sounds like a good retreat which I've made myself. Wish I could coordinate a visit but being on the west coast of Canada might be too much of a detour for both of us ?
Recently an old friend and fellow elder asked me why I seem to be doing 'nothing' anymore. I told him to read Deuteronomy 18:22 and tell me why nothing has been written in our publications since the 1965 WT article "Basis for Reliance on Prophecy said:
(1) It must be spoken in Jehovah’s name and at his command;
(2) it must come to pass;
(3) it must be in harmony commandments and thus promote right worship."
That was a month ago and he has yet to reply.
Have a wonderful trip!Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-18 08:19:00
I'm hoping to be traveling to the West Coast, Seattle specifically, next year. It's only a hop, skip and a jump up to Vancouver. We may yet meet, Lord willing.
Reply by Smoldering Wick on 2017-09-18 12:24:53
Now wouldn't that be providential? Send me an email and I might even save you the drive up (especially if Trader Joe's is having a sale in Seattle.) :-)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-18 13:35:05
Will do. It'll likely be late spring or early summer.
Reply by BrotherNicodemus on 2017-09-19 00:15:32
Hi Smoldering Wick. Am I correct in understanding that you are an elder? If so, How do you walk the line? Tough I'm sure.
Comment by Vox Ratio on 2017-09-17 22:53:11
Hi Meleti,
Thanks for another fine review.
The "Governing Body" and the "Organisation" have become virtually synonymous concepts in the minds of many JW's – at least as far as obedience is concerned. This occasions that the elevation of one implies the elevation of the other. Regrettably, that the Organisation – or more pointedly the Governing Body – requires uncritical support or else critical silence is something dark and unchristian indeed!
This, it would seem, is yet another manifestation of the man of lawlessness at work – an influence foretold to operate within the temple of God (the body of believers), and elevated to a place above the temple within which it sits (2 Thess. 2:3ff). As history has shown, sometimes this lawlessness would seem to work through force, while at other times it seems to work through farce. In our case, the lawless one has ostensibly been ascending the steps that its slaves have built on the back of idolatry; an indication that its strength is formed by human weakness, a farce if you will. Yet, rather than fleeing from idolatry as the apostles entreated us, many faithful Witnesses have become ensnared in what is arguably the most insidious form of idolatry of all – the service and veneration of the holy God through the sole mediation of a living, yet fallen, representation.
Interestingly, when the ancient people of God thought that their mediator was delaying, they constructed a representation of God to go ahead of them and lead them through the wilderness (Ex. 32:4ff). Likewise, while waiting for their mediator to return, many Christians have constructed representations of God that would purportedly lead them through life's wilderness also. Unfortunately, only upon their mediator's return was Israel's idol finally destroyed. Similarly, Paul informs us that only upon the greater mediator's return will the man of lawlessness be done away with (2 Thess. 2:8).
I wish it were not so, but there is mounting evidence of idolatry among our ranks that can no longer be denied. May we pray that our brethren will acknowledge their sin and come to recognise that only one is worthy of being obeyed on God's behalf (cf. Rev. 5:9).Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-18 08:24:21
A very perceptive and accurate analysis of the current situation in the Organization, Vox Ratio.
Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-18 09:43:53
The GB asserts that membership in their organization is required to survive Armageddon. They claim to be the only source in the world for divine communication from God. They want their followers to sacrifice their time, efforts, money and future to support their organization, construct its buildings, and oversee its operations. They put the lives of their followers at risk from the blood issue, by failing to protect children from predators, and by sending them preaching in places known to be dangerous. Their policies to DF and DA those who disagree with them amount to a spiritual death sentence.
When someone has divine insight, holds the power of life and death over others, accepts sacrifices and demands absolute loyalty and obedience, they are a god. Anyone who submits to that god is an idolater.Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 01:55:32
They do claim to be the only channel of communication from God, interestingly though, when Jeffrey Jackson was questioned under oath by the Australian Royal Commission he was asked if that was true. He replied "that would be presumptuous".
Has anyone watched that section?
Needless to say, we haven't seen or heard from him much at all ever since. Maybe...he lost his "privileges"?
?
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 02:03:26
Jackson also refered to their role as a governing body as the "Guardians Of Doctrine".
Interestingly G.O.D.
Think it's intentional or just coincidence?Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-21 08:59:57
Thanks for pointing that out, Thaddeus. GOD indeed.
Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-09-18 10:19:01
Agreed Robert
Reply by Devora on 2017-09-18 19:54:27
Heartfelt Thanks for all your points here.Of all concerns I've had since waking up,is this realization of the blatant Idolatry..now-arrived.How sad...tragic...what slurs to Jah and our Lord Jesus!..and in these comments-with all
the relevant Scriptures being highlighted here(by All of You);Your dear,precious insightful sharings...the comforts received here are,so very personally for me,"Life affirming". Also,thinking of the letter of Jude(in his prologue,who said to Beloved ones);his wanting to talk "about the salvation-held in common"--so We,in these end times,now see these fulfillments--in his Inspired prophetic warnings-given instead;necessary to save...even more...But the'dumbing-down'of the sheep has kept intensifying,to where we increasingly experience fellow JW's (still-in)as pitifully trapped;'trained'with-out realizing!shut down in personal thought;actually unable to have their own mental abilities(God's Word w/so many scriptures on that) to compare;analyze;critique;there's fear behind it with many(who aren't 100% blinded/conditioned;indoctrinated...yet). Love-fully realized- cannot be completed with fear.In waking-up;realizing;making my own stand,by the grace of Jah;His Son and by holy spirit...I was seeking,questing with my all,to 'test out" the changes that began to happen more+more,inside the org...affecting the spirit of the ones within,around me...affecting me,with growing dismay(PTSD also as a result).As all of you,I had to think,feel;analyze; with my own will,responsibility,to realize...then,act on what was needed...All in the face of fear.Then,....moving past it.Yet still,how painful!to 'fade',knowing my dear friends within,would/will give up on me?..How painful,to hear of this ongoing,idolatrous decay.Such pain:such Dangers to them!In this Love and concern I keep praying,because,as Jah though Christ rescued us,so I do have faith within my prayers(for as many as possible still stuck inside-)that they too will also be able to get out...it's their Heart-within-that will make the difference.The Love held within-with courage-might overcome the fear.So,as bad as the org's become,I believe many more will also wake up and come out..."Get OUT of Her,MY People"...My heart beats for them...the sheep.
Comment by James on 2017-09-18 01:52:02
Thanks for the review.
It's same response every where. I tried reasoning with longtime friends on the subject of the frequency of Jesus occurrence in the GS to the 237 times of Jehovah, the response was-am heading towards apostasy,i am not a GB, danger is looming ahead of me. These from three of my closest friends of over 25 to 30years in the Org. Non addressed the issue I raised whether right or wrong. One asked if am still a witness.
JW are not even willing to look, think, consider anything if not from GB even if it's visibly seen in the Bible. Non of them are willing to reason.
I asked an elder friend, based on our understanding, God doesn't speak again to anyone, he agreed, I followed with, does this include GB? Surprisingly he said, No.I asked what's the meaning of Anyone? He was mute. I pressed further, he said why am I disturbing him. I said I didn't want to ask Branch since he should know. He knows I partake of memorial emblems, he asked how did God speak to me, I responded the way he speaks to us all today-GB inclusive, through his word. He said we must change the subject since we were in field service together during this discussion.
Witness fears most a fellow witness reasoning with him from the scriptures outside GB teachings.
This is sickeningReply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 02:08:44
James I've found that to be the case as well. It's so hard to discuss the Bible with my brothers, in Service or elsewhere. It's pretty easy to discuss the Watchtower though.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-18 08:21:11
James, I wish your experiences were the exception, but sadly, they are the norm.
Reply by wild olive on 2017-09-19 00:41:19
Hi James loved your reasoning with your friend .
It just occurred to me a couple of days ago what it means to be "spirit directed", and it exactly what you said, it's by reading and following what's in the bible, thing is you don't have to be on a GB to be spirit directed, any one can be by reading and applying Gods word ,and therefore spirit directed .Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 02:13:57
There was a recent WT Article that stated that the "anointed" have no more holy spirit or special understanding of the Scriptures than do "many mature Christians". In my comment about that Iworded it that the Governing Body (aren't they "anointed") doesn't have more holy spirit nor special insights..."
I was in the infamous "backroom" over it.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-09-18 04:25:12
Hi Meliti. Enjoy your trip. Thanks for your insight and the comments others have already made. I have traced through my files and discussions on the generation, and replies include something like "there is no other organisation that has accomplished ......". Every other comment implies lack of trust and warnings of heading towards apostasy. And, of course, when we write to the Society on such matters, they say "we encourage you to direct your questions to your local body of elders who are in the best position to render assistance in spiritual matters".
But they cannot answer the questions either, and then resort to "we have full trust in the faithful slave and beware of apostate thinking".
It reminds me of the alleged Mafia saying "We have ways of making you talk", although in this case its more like "We have ways of making you silent".
Comment by Jabez on 2017-09-18 06:21:02
Hi to everyone . If you asked the Brothers what work should we do to do the works of God ,to make a list of the works that would please God ,what I wonder would make the list and how many things would they include please read John 6:28,29 where you will find the answer that Jesus gave to this very question and only one thing made the list .This should be everybody's plan for sure success John 6:37 .enjoy your trip Meliti may you be led and fed by The Spirit.
Reply by Smoldering Wick on 2017-09-18 12:12:33
Most perceptive, Jabez. And wasn't this the conversation that ended with Jesus' final statement: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
And didn't most of his disciples leave him because he said it in earshot of the rulers of the synagogue? How about in the middle of a WT study? How long would Jesus last if that was the manner of his return? And how long would we last if we stuck to him while the elders took him into the back room?
Thanks for the insightReply by Thaddeus on 2017-09-21 02:20:55
Well illustrated!
Comment by Warp Speed on 2017-09-18 07:59:15
First, to be one who has a "special privelege" of service( pioneer,ect.), the message being preached must be the right one. In this and many other articles, Meleti has shown more than convincingly that WT is in error on that issue.
Second, those who supposedly hold these positions of "special privelege" would do well to cultivate true Christ-like qualities, foremost of which should be humility. Unfortunately, the Org promotes just the opposite- a prideful and superior attitude.
So, the message is incorrect, and the attitude of which said message is conveyed is also incorrect.
Where do I sign up to Pioneer?
Comment by Scrubmaster on 2017-09-18 17:44:23
I wish somehow all Witness could see the response the governing body member gave to the spoke person question. When I listen o Governing body member tell Mr. Stewart, it would be presumption to say the Governing body was the only spokes person for God on earth. That should make any Witnesses stop and think. The scriptures clearly mention speaking boldly before Governers and Kings. This brother did not speak boldly when answering this question in light of the fact that all literature speaks of the GB as being God's spokes persons and all Witnessess need to listen to what the GB says. To the point one Watchtower even said if what the GB says does not make sense from mans prespective, the direction should still be followed.
Comment by wild olive on 2017-09-18 18:43:55
Yes what magnificent buildings and construction ,along with a special appointed class of priestly construction workers ,the visible work of man "reaching to the heavens " like the Tower of Babel , to be next to God himself , and we know how that turned out .
Comment by stranger on 2017-09-19 00:55:11
Mark 13:21&22 think about it!!
Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-19 12:11:54
We do think about it, but we need your thoughts first to understand the message you are trying to convey. Perhaps you could elaborate.
Reply by stranger on 2017-09-20 01:38:30
When you say we are you speaking for everyone or just yourself? Anyway I am saying most of the ex-JW's jump right from Jehovah to Jesus or Christ.The scripture says if Any man says to look here or there for Christ believe it not. Antitype or type,then or now,now or then,that's pretty plain no interpretation needed, or is there? I do have a question for you. Is it Jesus Christ, Jesus the Christ or Christ Jesus or just plain Jesus? Rev.22:16.
Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-20 07:36:27
When I say "we" it simply means that this verse, and parallel verses in the gospels, have been discussed often on this forum before.
From your last question, you seem to be asking which expression is the "correct" one. WT has tried to explain this before with their own theories, but I believe the issue is not especially important. As long as one describes Christ in respectful terms, any of those expressions should be acceptible.Reply by stranger on 2017-09-20 10:44:10
Thank you Robert, I was'nt trying to be sarcastic but I do watch my words.Keep up the good work!!
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-20 08:34:51
The Gospel writers don't use "Christ Jesus", but always "Jesus Christ". Paul uses both, but seems to favor "Christ Jesus".
I remember hearing a study of why we order the names of couples the way we do. If you have couple as friends, you might refer to them as "John and Mary", or perhaps you always refer to them as "Mary and John". This study showed that the overwhelming reason for the order in which we name friends is the order in which we first met them. So if you knew Mary first and then later John, you would likely refer to the in that order, "Mary and John".
The Gospel writers all knew Jesus first, and then over time realized he was the Christ. Certainly by the time of his resurrection, there was no longer doubt he was Jesus, the Christ. So they refer to him as Jesus Christ.
However, Paul knew Jesus first as the Christ when he appeared to him in blinding glory. So to Paul we was first the anointed one, the Christ, hence he favors "Christ Jesus".
Just an opinion.Reply by stranger on 2017-09-20 10:38:08
Thank you Meleti, I absolutely value your opinion.I am in my fifties and have never been a baptized JW, but have many family members who are. when I was a boy I had to go to the meetings and even gave a bible reading once.Book studies I mostly remember the crystal blue persuasion one.Most of the old timers will know the one I'm talking about.What erk's me the most is all my relatives that died 10 or more years ago would not even recognize this outfit today. I do throw a question now and then to some of them that are in the org. Mostly just simply ones like "Did you know Jesus was an apostle?" Heb.3:1
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-20 11:13:11
Good one Stranger. I didn't know that about Jesus either. How odd that we can read a passage and never notice something like that.
Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-20 11:40:51
Jesus was sent by God, so that makes him an apostle (a sent one) and because everything Jesus knew he learned from his Father, he is also a disciple (a taught one). Once again, Jesus did it first.
Comment by Lone Survivor on 2017-09-19 13:37:45
Yes Meleti we've faced the very same issues and are working hard to try to overcome the problem and in the near future hope that we can work together to overcome this problem it's still nip and tuck here making sure we don't get disfellowshiped because in the witnesses mind the door is slammed shut at that point and would make it even harder to do a good work but we feel that Jesus is about to turn the tables we appreciate the hard work thanks again best wishes to all
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-09-20 04:14:52
James. I agree that most witnesses cannot reason from the scriptures alone, at all sorts of levels. What I try and do is to be careful who I speak to and very selective. Since WT says I should only take my questions to spiritual shepherds, I have had to work out who of those I can trust enough to ask any sort of question, and what sort of questions to ask. That principle applies to speaking to any of the brothers, but we must be very careful speaking to non appointed men because of the potential charge of apostasy.
As Jesus said in Matthew 10:16 , although the application may not be quite correct, "be cautious as serpents an yet innocent as doves" , it is important not to stumble anyone, I agree. Just think how much those on this site have learned since reading the things here. No one could cope with all this in one lump.
But if I am to be obedient and take my questions to the appointed men, then I can hardly be stumbling them. I usually start with something like "I have an awkward question which has been concerning me, can I discuss it with you in total confidence, as I do not want you to get the wrong idea, but I would appreciate some help to understand what the scriptures mean". And then we might even discuss it over a drink or meal.
I am afraid that the straight on way, just meets the usual apostasy or trust the F & DS reply.
Well, it has worked so far. Does Anyone else have any better suggestions.Reply by BrotherNicodemus on 2017-09-21 09:36:57
I agree with Ifionlyhadabrain. Scary move Leonardo Josephus, unless you are prepared to and want to be DFd. Once you tell anyone your doubts, it will come back to haunt you. If you want to be out, and are prepared for the consequences, then all it takes is to ask a question. I know it's hard to not say something since it is in our nature to help and spread the truth, but we need to always remember where it will lead to.
I also find it encouraging how many on this site have or do serve still in the congregation. and if they still served with doubts or looked for problems after being deleted. Not to sound critical at all. just curious in hearing those insights.
Comment by mailman on 2017-09-21 09:52:30
Questions for you dear brothers:
For the sake of argument, assuming Our Lord Jesus Christ appointed the anointed brothers in 1919 as the FDS, would the appointment extend to those who succeeded the brothers who already died or left the organization? Please help to enlighten.
From 1919 up to this very day, there were numerous changes or adjustments in doctrines. Would Christ have appointed the group of bible students even when there were numerous beliefs at that time that were not in accord with his words and his Father?
In 1919, can we not consider those institutions printing the bible and Christian-based publications (non-JW) not FDS? Weren't also they an important part of spiritual feeding? Remember that during that time, there was no New World Translation yet.
Unlike Paul who was directly appointed by Christ and is recorded in the Bible, the Governing Body's appointment is never recorded in the Scriptures. Or are we missing a verse?
Can interpreting a biblical prophecy as to its fulfillment also be considered part of prophesying or part of prophetic work?Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-21 10:39:47
It's something of an academic question, mailman, since it rests on the premise that was a 1919 appointment. But I take your point. Most Witnesses accept the 1919 appointment as truth because they are told it is true by the Governing Body whom they trust as God's appointed channel. Such ones, in my experience, are not concerned with facts.
The model of Israel holds answers. Jehovah appointed the first king directly, but he went bad and Jehovah removed him. He then appointed a second king not in the lineage of the first and he was faithful, though flawed. Because he was faithful, Jehovah said that the kingship would not depart from his lineage. However, while each king was Jehovah's appointee by genetic descent, that doesn't mean each was approved. In fact, the majority were not approved and the people had to often disobey the king if they wanted to keep Jehovah's favor.
If follows then that IF Jesus first appointed the faithful slave in 1919, then when those men died off, their successors would continue in that capacity, but that does not mean they would continue to be approved. In fact, the pattern is that they could well be allowed to continue in their office of oversight, while under the condemnation of the Lord.
Like I said, this is an academic exercise based on a number of false assumptions. The biggest is that there was no faithful slave in the first century nor for the following 1,900 years. That cannot be because all Jesus' parables concerning the appointment of slaves have him doing the appointment before he leaves. He left in 33 C.E. Further, Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus returned in 1914 which completely invalidates the parable. He doesn't appoint the slave when he returns.
He doesn't need the slave when he returns, because he's back to do the oversight himself. It's nonsense and make a mockery of Jesus' teaching.
There are more flaws to the 1919 teaching. In fact, too many to innumerate in a comment.Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-21 11:12:52
To me, the biggest flaw is that the FDS is appointed over all the master's belongings AFTER he returns, not before. That being so, and since the master has not yet returned (a thing even WT would agree with), the only role of the FDS at present is to dispense food at the proper time, as a SLAVE. It is not to lord it over other slaves as if their master. Thus, even if the current GB was the FDS (which I do not believe they are), they would have no authority at all to control and direct the actions and activities of other Christians, nor to discipline and punish them should they disagree with the FDS.
Reply by mailman on 2017-09-22 01:12:32
Thanks for the enlightening reply and understanding Meleti.
There is no clear explanation from JW publications how the FDS class entitlement is passed on to the next. The best that the GB can hope for is for us to ASSUME there's succession and the inheriting batch would have the same privilege. Again, that is unsubstantiated, speculative.
Now, for the sake of discussion, let's assume 1919 Jesus appointment really happened. The doctrines and beliefs of that appointed class should therefore merit support. After all, they were especially selected by our Master.
What happens now to the changes and adjustments in beliefs AFTER the death of the appointed ones? Are we going to support these changes even if the architects were not directly chosen by Christ?
I am sure there would be JWs who would stick to the original group's teachings in case there would be conflicts with the new group. But for those who would think otherwise, then that would simply undermine the power of that appointment, wouldn't it.Reply by Eleasar on 2017-09-22 03:21:02
The problem with this discussion is the parable. The parable is about two slaves, not one. We need to read matthew 24:45-51. WT has made one real and other hypothetical in their last revision of the understanding. This in itself is absurd and plain wrong. By focusing on one part of the parable we miss the bigger picture.
The second issue is staying that the parable is a prophecy. The four parables starting with this one focuses on how christians should stay awake. They highlight specific activities that help a Christian stay awake for the Master’s return. A careful reading of all the parables from matthew 24:45 through matthew 25 clearly shows this. The key element is in matthew 24:36 where Jesus categorically states that NOBODY knows the end but the Father. Christians are asked to preach and teach the Gospel message (see Galatians 1-6-9) and aim to live a life that reflects the new person in Christ that they have become.
The Gospel should not change from what the apostles taught.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-22 08:12:15
So true, Eleasar. It gets even worse when we consider that Luke 12:41-48 includes two additional slaves in the telling of the parable. The slave that knowingly does not do the master's will, and the slave that failed to do his will out of ignorance. Going as far back as 1950, it seems the WT has never even attempted to explain who these are.
Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-22 11:09:22
The are many problems with the WT interpretation of the FDS parable, besides those you mention. The parable clearly describes the FDS as a singular person, but that didn't fit WT's post-Russell purposes, so they said it must be a "class".
At first, that "class" was all 'anointed' ones, but that didn't suit their goals either, since many persons claimed to be 'anointed' - a thing that could impact WT's hold on power. So they limited the FDS to 7 men in Brooklyn.
But, go back and read the original scripture, and say to yourself, "Of COURSE! That's what the scripture means ... the FDS is 7 men in Brooklyn, New York!"
Really?Reply by Eleasar on 2017-09-22 11:35:51
This teaching has always been problematic. My personal view is the Russell’s first attempt at it was probably the most accurate in 1881 where he saw it as the entire household of faith. This is early in his journey with Zion’s Watchtower. It holds until 1895/6, where the idea that he is that Servant is suggested. By 1910 onward he does not explicitly state it but very strongly implies it. Interestingly, in the December 1917 watchtower (an obituary edition) Rutherford clearly supports this along with a 1920 edition. Post 1927 it becomes Jesus and the 144000 and the rest is history.
Many commentators apply it to those taking the lead in churches or congregations.
I like Russell’s original idea because it fits with the context talking about how Christians stay awake. This involves providing ‘food’ to others of the household of faith and this is not just bible teaching but living the Christian life fully by manifesting the fruitage of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
The GB thinks it is just about their publishing literature, videos etc that build up all. When they admit that they can err doctrinally and organisationally just shows how contradictory their position has become. A basic level of reasoning skills would expose this foundation. The problem is most JWs believe that Jehovah God has an organisation but cannot explain how they get this. Even if they see the flaws in logic, they cannot be open to God not having an organisation. Most in my experience are very sincere and this would destroy their world view. I think we should be careful as not to destroy their faith but wait for the time when they are ready to engage on the organisation and is it scriptural.
It reminds me of the many many discussions on the ministry with trinitarians and their refusal to acknowledge that trinity is at most implied in scripture but the teaching against the dogma is explicitly stated over and over. Hence, the fall back position is it is a mystery. It is better to live the Christian life and win them that way then through debating the bible.
We need to reach out in love even though we are maligned and dealt with unjustly. This is our challenge and each of us need to let go our anger, find our Christian joy and endure with love. This is what our Father is asking of us.
Agape with a great measure of philialReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-09-22 12:02:03
I concur, Eleasar. The FDS is the entire household of faith. The four resulting types that emerge at the Lord's return represent individuals of that household who have acted in different ways toward the appointment they've received--either willfully or willingly, wickedly or justly, proudly or humbly.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-09-21 10:09:54
Brain & Nicodemus. Thanks for your advice. I thought that you cannot be D/F unless you are spreading those teachings. Since when is asking sincere questions deemed to be spreading false teachings ? Shepherding book states that one has to be deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by JWs. Any with sincere doubts should be helped. Hope I am right on that, though. Should you have anything to the contrary, can you provide references ? Otherwise we will have to wait and see. I guess much depends on how you put things and who you talk to. Also be very careful you do not have 2 witnesses. Obviously I have already considered the consequences, but I view it that if we cannot voice our opinions somewhere or check our doubts, then why would we want to stay in. I am, however, trying to be very careful, but I guess if someone wanted me out they would find a way. Time will tell. Thanks for your thoughts.
It is encouraging to realize how many on this site are still in and active, but that is the place I was for some time before I came stepped down.Reply by eve04 on 2017-09-21 16:54:41
Hi Leonardo,
I'm not an elder so I don't know what that secret shepherding book says. If I remember correctly Raymond Franz was disfellowshipped and he was not spreading so called false teachings. He was seen with someone the Society viewed as an "apostate" and knowledge that the teachings he held dear for years were false, but not spreading them. I agree with Brain, if they think you are going contrary to what the GB/FS says it's time to investigate, especially if you are a brother. Just saying.....Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-22 10:59:24
The book isn't all that secret any more. It can be found online if you know where to look.
Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-09-22 03:59:52
Hi Brain (and Eve). Sorry they gave you such a hard time. Forewarned is forearmed, I guess. I have already been through some sessions and am fairly aware of who I would trust and who I would not trust. But your advice is good.
According to what I have read, Ray Franz was subject to a bit of a witch hunt, so his eating with his employer (who was D/F) was used to D/F him.
I am aware of how much some can be badgered as a friend has D/a himself following continuous efforts to meet.Reply by Robert-6512 on 2017-09-23 03:56:48
We know it was a witch hunt because Ray Franz's wife was at the meal in question, yet she was not DF'd. WT wanted Ray gone by any means necessary. It mattered not if the reasons for it were dishonest.
Comment by mailman on 2017-09-22 01:36:23
Where in Matthew 24:45 do we see explicit or implicit message that Jesus would do a spiritual inspection of his temple to select a sole channel to feed Christians, a.k.a FDS? Maybe we need to have a special eyeglasses to see it. :)
Comment by Warp Speed on 2017-09-23 10:15:25
I love how you put it so simply, yet incredibly accurate Brain. Reminds me of the teaching method someone else employed about 2,000 years ago.....
Comment by Smoldering Wick on 2017-09-24 13:05:59
Having reviewed this entire discussion it occurs to me that every one of us is in for a very trying, tiring and trial some experience. After reading Daniel again (how often does it happen that so much was missed over the many years of reading him) I can’t imagine his state of depression and collapse under the weight of guilt, repentance and mystery surrounding him. How many visits it took for the angels to raise him up and he still didn’t have a clue what was ahead of him.
Now as I sit through the candy (eye and ear) being thrown at us daily by our FDS hierarchy, I can really see what Paul meant (us included) at 2 Timothy 4:3-5: “they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.” How are our ears tickled? The same way our eyes are fooled by all the smiling pictures and videos being pumped along with the “false stories” used to reinforce what cannot shine through from the scriptures. Indeed you must “keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.” A lonely journey it is.
Working out my salvation with fear and trembling,
Your slave in Christ,
SWReply by mailman on 2017-09-25 07:40:57
Paradise and the pictures showing it has become therapeutic for the brothers especially those who are 100% in! Take away the paradise that GB teach, what happens to us? :)