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Hello Meleti,
I have just been meditating on Matthew 24 which deals with the sign of Christ’s parousia and a different understanding of it entered into my mind. The new understanding I have seems to harmonize perfectly with the context but it is contrary to what most people think about Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:4-8.
The organization and most professed Christians understand Jesus’ statements about future wars, earthquakes and food shortages as being the sign of his parousia. But what if Jesus actually meant the very opposite? You’re probably thinking now: “What! Is this brother out of his mind?!” Well, let's reason on those verses objectively.
After Jesus’ followers asked him what would be the sign of his parousia and the conclusion of the system of things, what was the first thing to come out of Jesus’ mouth? “Look out that nobody misleads YOU”. Why? Evidently, the thing uppermost on Jesus’ mind in answering their question was to safeguard them against being misled about exactly when that time would come. Jesus’ subsequent words must be read with this thought in mind, as indeed the context confirms.
Jesus next tells them that people would come in his name saying they are the Christ/anointed and would mislead many, which fits the context. But then he makes mention of the food shortages, wars and earthquakes. How could that fit into the context of them being misled? Think of human nature. When some great natural or man-made upheaval occurs, what thought tends to come into the mind of many? “It’s the end of the world!” I remember seeing news footage shortly after the earthquake in Haiti and one survivor being interviewed said that when the earth started to shake violently they thought the world was coming to an end.
It is apparent that Jesus made mention of wars, earthquakes and food shortages, not as something to look for as a sign of his parousia, but rather to preempt and debunk the idea that these future upheavals, which are inevitable, are a sign that the end is here or near. Proof of this is his words at the end of verse 6: “see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.” Note that after making this statement Jesus begins to talk about the wars, earthquakes and food shortages with the word “For” which basically means “because”. Do you see his flow of thought? Jesus seems to be in effect saying:
‘Major upheavals are going to happen in the history of mankind – you’re going to hear of wars and rumors of wars - but don’t let them frighten you. These things will inevitably occur in the future but don’t mislead yourself into thinking they mean the end is here or near, BECAUSE nations WILL fight each other and there WILL be earthquakes in one place after another and there WILL be food shortages. [In other words, such is the inevitable future of this wicked world so don't fall into the trap of attaching apocalyptic meaning to it.] But this is only the start of a tumultuous time for mankind.’
It is interesting to note that Luke’s account gives one added bit of information that falls within the context of Matthew 24:5. Luke 21:8 mentions that false prophets would claim “‘The due time has approached’” and he warns his followers not to go after them. Think about this: If the wars, food shortages and earthquakes really were a sign indicating that the end was near—that the due time had in fact approached—then wouldn’t persons have legitimate reasons to make such a claim? So why does Jesus categorically dismiss all persons making the claim that the due time has approached? It only makes sense if he was in fact implying that there is no basis for making such a claim; that they should not see the wars, food shortages and earthquakes as being the sign of his parousia.
What, then, is the sign of Christ’s parousia? The answer is so simple I’m surprised I didn’t see it before. First of all, it is evident that Christ’s parousia is in fact referring to his final coming to execute the wicked as indicated by the manner in which parousia is used in texts like 2 Peter 3:3,4; James 5:7,8 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1,2. Study carefully the contextual use of parousia in these texts! I remember reading another post that dealt with that subject. The SIGN of Christ’s parousia is mentioned at Matthew 24:30:
“And then the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Please note that the description of events mentioned at Matthew 24:30,31 perfectly matches Paul’s words at 2 Thessalonians 2:1,2 about the gathering of the anointed to occur at Christ’s parousia. It is apparent that the “sign of the Son of Man” is the sign of Christ’s parousia – not the wars, food shortages and earthquakes.
Anonymous
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By posting this here, it is my hope to generate some feedback from other readers to determine the merit of this understanding. I confess that my initial reaction was to reject it—such is the power of a lifetime of indoctrination.
However, it didn't take long for me to see the logic in this argument. We settled on 1914 due to sincere interpretations made by brother Russell based on his evident belief in the significance of predictions derived via numerology. All were abandoned save for that which led to 1914. That date remained, although its so-called fulfillment was changed from the year the great tribulation was to begin to the year we believe Christ was crowned king in heaven. Why did that year remain significant? Could there be any other reason than that was the year "the war to end all wars" began? If nothing big had happened in that year, then 1914 would likely have been abandoned along with all the other failed "prophetically significant years" of Russell's theology.
So now here we are, almost a century later, saddled with a "start year" for the last days because a really big war happened to coincide with one of our prophetic years. I say "saddled" because we are still being forced to explain the prophetic application of Scriptures that are increasingly more difficult to believe if we must continue to weave 1914 into their fabric. The latest stretched application of "this generation" (Mt. 24:34) is but one glaring example.
In fact, we continue to teach that the "last days" began in 1914 even though none of the three accounts of Jesus' answer to the question posed in Mt. 24:3 uses the term "last days". That term is found at Acts. 2:16 where it clearly applied to events taking place in 33 C.E. It is also found at 2 Tim. 3:1-7 where it clearly applies to the Christian congregation (or else verses 6 and 7 are meaningless). It is used at James 5:3 and is tied to the presence of the Lord mentioned at vs. 7. And it is used at 2 Pet. 3:3 where it is also tied to the presence of the Lord. These last two occurrences indicate that the presence of the Lord is the conclusion of the "last days", not something concurrent with them.
So, in the four instances where the term is used, there is no mention of wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes. What marks the last days are the attitudes and conduct of wicked men. Jesus never used the term "last days" in reference to what we commonly call the "last days prophecy of Mt. 24".
We have taken Mt. 24:8, which reads, "All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress", and converted it to mean, 'All these things mark the beginning of the last days'. Yet Jesus didn't say that; he didn't use the term "last days"; and it is evident contextually that he wasn't giving us a means to know the very year that the "last days" would start.
Jehovah does not want people to serve him because they fear they are going to be destroyed soon if they don't. He wants humans to serve him because they love him and because they recognize that it is the only way for mankind to succeed. That it is the natural state of humankind to serve and obey the true God, Jehovah.
It is clear from hard won experience and dashed expectations that none of the prophecies relating to events that will occur during the last days was given as a means to discern how close we are to the end. Otherwise, Jesus words at Mt. 24:44 would have no meaning: "...at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming."
Meleti
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Comment by apollos0falexandria on 2012-12-18 13:41:52
I agree that the first portion of the prophecy in Matt 24 is a warning NOT to reach hasty conclusions about what these things signified
However, I had previously accepted that even though Jesus was warning his followers not to think his presence was current because of the world events, they still did point to an imminence. Now I am not so sure. It seems perfectly possible that Jesus was saying that these things would occur right from the first century, and that rather than continually use these as evidence that he was present, a Christian should just be always "on the watch" because his presence could come at any time. It seems to fit since it is possible to find so many points in history when people and groups proclaimed that the end was nigh based upon world troubles. History is continually repeating itself.
To note that this is case is very different to being a ridiculer who does not believe that a presence will ever come. A true Christian lives for Christ's presence every day, but is not swayed by people who make extravagant claims based upon world events.
If we look at it this way the last days began in the first century. Although that initially might sound silly because we are so conditioned to think of the last days being a short time (although 100 years is hardly short compared to what was expected) there might be a real case to read the scriptures this way. It resolves lots of Christian Greek scriptures that seem to imply that the initial readers were living in the last days, not just of the Jewish age, but in lead up to the parousia. If viewed this way the 6000 years on mans history basically has three key ages. The pre-flood age, the post-flood/pre-Messiah age, and then the last days leading up to the parousia. This could also be defined as the Christian era.
These thoughts are still very much a work-in-progress, but just putting them out there for comment and criticism.Reply by on 2014-01-05 14:57:15
Haha. This sounds like my favorite "demonic" book Lord of the Rings, where the characters lived in the 3rd age of middle earth. This third age culminated in the destruction of the ultimate evil Lord Sauron.
Comment by Urbanus on 2012-12-24 12:16:20
The assertion is laid out that here that the Gentiles times end at the sign of the “Son of Man” in the heavens, visible and apparent to all nations and tribes. Thus begins the “Great Tribulation,” a tribunal and judgment of all the living. After a period Jehovah's “day” brings execution to the wicked and ushers into paradise all those found righteous.
The commentary omits the great works done by Jehovah to keep his purpose on course (in partial list):
1: Intervention in the Garden of Eden.
2: Intervention against Cain in behalf of Abel's blood.
3: A century of ark building in Noah's day, with salvation only for those entering the Ark.
4: The curse against Canaan, and an on-going regulation of the nations.
5: The Abrahamic Covenant and development of a chosen people.
6: The salvation from Egypt and giving of a Law Covenant.
7: The provision of Judges to govern his people
8: The choosing and acceptance of a rule of Kings over Israel and Judah with the Davidic Covenant.
9: The Prophets, both major and minor.
10: Most Importantly, the preparation of his people for a New Covenant through the baptism of John, the Baptizer
11: The appearance of the Messiah – the Anointed One or “Christ”
12: The establishment of the ransom sacrifice as the basis for salvation
13: The Apostolic Age, ending with the Apostle John, and his vision the Jehovah's Day.
14: Throughout the post-Apostolic Period, many interventions to keep his Word alive, and the path to “paradise Re-gained” open. This includes the process of Bible preservation and translation, the reformation, the spiritual resistance to the “enlightenment of the 18th century, the millennial fervor of the 19th century, and the establishment of millions of worshipers in “spirit and truth” of the 20th century, organized into over 100,000 congregations entering the 21st century. This corresponds historically with the baptism of John to prepare a people for a greater salvation.
Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses have been trained by the “faithful slave” to preach the “good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations.”
So when shortly (Matt 24:30-31): “the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.”
So let us never overlook of importance to Jehovah's purpose of the gathering and preparation work, with its blessings now and forever. May we each look forward to the commendation spoken of at Luke 21: "15 “Eventually when he [the Master] got back after having secured the kingly power, he commanded to be called to him these slaves to whom he had given the silver money, in order to ascertain what they had gained by business activity. 16 Then the first one presented himself, saying, ‘Lord, your mi?na gained ten mi?nas.’ 17 So he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave! Because in a very small matter you have proved yourself faithful, hold authority over ten cities.’ 18 Now the second came, saying, ‘Your mi?na, Lord, made five mi?nas.’ 19 He said to this one also, ‘You, too, be in charge of five cities."Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2012-12-31 19:49:43
Here's a question: If our conclusions about what Jesus meant when referring to wars, etc. are correct, how do we relate that to the four horsemen of Revelation?
Reply by apollos0falexandria on 2013-01-02 08:35:58
The four horsement = the great tribulation?
Compare Eze 5:16-17. This is talking about Jehovah bringing judgement on Jerusalem. Would you agree that it will find its modern parallel when Christendom is judged and that this is at the great tribulation? If so you will note the strong parallels with Rev 6.
The one on the white horse has a bow. Eze 5:16 mentions "injurious arrows". Famine, pestilence, sword and injurious wild beasts are featured in both accounts.
The riding of the horsemen precedes the moon becoming as blood and the stars of heaven falling to earth (Rev 6:12,13). This seems to parallel Matt 24, wherein the great tribulation precedes the sign of the Son of Man in heaven - "the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation" (Matt 24:29,30). Note the similarity with the end of Rev 6, where everyone clearly recognizes that Christ has come in power and judgement.
Apollos
Reply by Jude on 2013-01-02 13:18:13
That's a good question. Revelation 6 does seem to parallel Jesus' words about wars, food shortages and pestilences. However, a fifth horseman representing earthquakes is visibly absent.
But interestingly, in verse 10 the souls executed by the axe cry out: "Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?”
Could this question be a reflection of the dissappointment of many who mistakenly regarded the ride of the four horsemen as indicating that God's judgment was iminent, thus prompting the question: "until when...?". If so, then even Revelation 6:10 agrees with the idea that Jesus was cautioning his followers against seeing these events as meaning the end was immediately imminent.
Incidentally, I don't believe these souls crying out beneath the altar refers to already resurrected anointed ones anymore than abel's blood crying to Jehovah for justice meant that Abel was already resurrected. I believe those verses simply symbolize the idea that it would appear to many that God was delaying in avenging the blood of his servants - their blood or souls thus figuratively crying out to him for justice - because of mistakenly seeing the ride of the four horsemen as evidence that that judgment had come or was immediately imminent, as I mentioned above.
When are the anointed resurrected? 1 Corinthians 15:52 which mentions the anointed being resurrected at the sounding of the LAST TRUMPET coupled with Matthew 24:30,31 which speaks of the anointed being gathered with a great TRUMPET sound shortly AFTER the great tribulation, logically puts the resurrection of the anointed as being in the future at the end of the great tribulation.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-01-02 15:24:16
We agree with you on the point of when the anointed will be resurrected. See the May 2012 post on the subject.
http://meletivivlon.com/2012/05/28/when-does-the-first-resurrection-occur/
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-01-02 16:41:18
You raise an interesting point in reference to there being no Horseman representing earthquakes. While it could be argued that an increase in wars, famines and pestilences would presage the end of the world, earthquakes are a naturally occurring phenomenon and are not affected by the conditions of humanity. It would be most unlikely for Jehovah to inflict them on humankind just to give us one more facet of the sign. So I think your original hypothesis stands—that wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes are all events which might induce us to think the end of the world is coming unless we heed Jesus warning not to be misled by such things.
The first horseman rides forth wearing a crown to complete his conquest. There is no historical evidence that Jesus has been completing his conquest over the last century. Nor is there any evidence that he received the kingdom in 1914. While it is true that there have been wars and famines throughout the last century, it can be argued that there have always been wars and famines. The kind of famine that is described when the 3rd horseman rides forth seems to be on a scale that surpasses anything we have known. Indeed, if you exclude Africa, how much famine has there been in the last 50 or 60 years? Have people in Europe, North America, Central America, South America, India, or China, been starving on a scale that is coincides with what is described at the riding forth of that horseman?
If all of these riders symbolize future events starting with Christ’s riding forth at the beginning of the great tribulation, then the words of verse 10 may indicate a time period greater than we would like to believe. Surely, the Christians who fled Jerusalem were wondering how long it would be before Jehovah’s words were fulfilled. It is doubtful any of them expected years to pass before vengeance was meted out. The great tribulation – the destruction of Babylon the great – may very well precede the battle of Armageddon by years. If so, that would allow time and circumstances for all of these prophetic events to take place on the scale described by John.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.Reply by Jude on 2013-01-04 15:01:56
I have a thought on the first horseman - and it is just a preliminary thought that I'm not certain of myself:
The firey colored red horseman undoubtedly pictures global conflict and the phrase "take peace away from the Earth" is very much in line with our modern classification of the great war of 1914 as being a world war. So the 3 latter horsemen seem to depict events from the first world war onward. So If we are wrong about Jesus being enthroned as king in 1914, what could the first white horseman represent?
What if it represents the renewed interest in preaching and the bible among sincere Christians that occurred in the late 1800s and early 1900s? There were doubtless some sincere wheat Christians during that period like Barbor, Russel, etc who sought to preach the good news. So that first horseman may actually represent Christ stirring up and acting through the wheat on earth to get the momentum for the preaching work started.
The white horsman with the crown could thus represent the "kingdom of the son of his love" - the congregation of anointed ones on earth - riding forth into action to start the work of conquering hearts and minds by the revival in the preaching and teaching the bible that occurred in that period called the revival, I think. The apostle Paul did liken the preaching and teaching work as spiritual warfare so it can be pictured by a white horse riding forth to conquer. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)
But this is just an uncertain thought of mine.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-01-04 16:20:24
I'm not so sure about the assumption that the words "take peace away from the Earth" were fulfilled by World War I. It certainly fits with our official position, but it only works if we qualify what we mean. For instance, was peace taken away from the millions of inhabitants in Central and South America by WWI? What about China, India, Japan, Africa? The war touched North America only because they sent their young men across the Atlantic to fight in what was essentially a European War. So peace wasn't taken away from the Earth, but only parts of it. We can qualify that by saying the effects of the war impacted all nations. But letting the Bible mean what it says, it says that "peace was taken away". The nations whose trade was impacted by the war continue to enjoy peace. It wasn't taken away from them.
Even in WWII, peace wasn't taken away from the Earth, but only from parts of it. Now when the Great Tribulation starts, the nations will be warring on false religion. Every continent, every nation, every island of the sea will know war, as will every city, village and hamlet. Indeed, wherever there is a religion being practiced; wherever there is a church, synagogue or mosque, there will be war. Only at that time will we not need to qualify the fulfillment of Jesus' words.
Comment by jomaix on 2013-01-01 21:23:45
How can I send you a collaboration? I'm writing something about the great crowd and I would like to know if I can share it with you, and probably you'd like to share it with more brothers :)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2013-01-01 22:35:45
Yes, please do. You can email it to me at meleti.vivlon@gmail.com.
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