Okay, here we are again. I wanted to have a little more fun with Sarah, and so I thought I'd ask her what the scriptural understanding is regarding baptism based on JW theology. So here goes.
Okay, so I'm asking, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is baptism a symbol of one's dedication to Jehovah? Are baptismal candidates required to make a prayerful vow of dedication to Jehovah prior to baptism?
I'm not asking for proof, I'm just asking for her to define it. Let's see what she says.
"That is a very important question regarding this significant step of Christian baptism. Speaking from the faith I practice, I can confirm that the answers to both of your questions are yes."
Excellent.
"Baptism is a symbol of dedication. According to what the Bible teaches, water baptism for Jehovah's Witnesses is not merely a ritual. It is a powerful public symbol of something that has already taken place in the candidate's life. Public symbol: Baptism symbolizes that the candidate has turned away from their former self-directed course, represented by being immersed in water, and has taken up a new life dedicated to doing God's will, represented by being raised out of the water. Dedication. This act publicly identifies the individual as a devoted servant of Jehovah God. As the Bible says in 1 Peter 3:21, 'Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.'"
Hmm, interesting. No mention of vows or dedication there.
"This emphasizes that baptism is tied to a sincere internal request to God, or an inner commitment. The requirement of a vow of dedication, yes, baptismal candidates are required to make a prayerful vow, or commitment, of dedication to Jehovah before the water baptism takes place. This dedication is a personal solemn promise made to Jehovah God in prayer that involves three key steps leading up to the baptism. Repentance and conversion: The individual repents of past wrongs and truly converts, turns around to follow God's ways. Dedication vow: The person privately dedicates their life without reservation to Jehovah through prayer, promising to use their life to serve him fully. This is the vow of dedication. Three, water baptism. This is the public display of that private prayerful vow. The act of dedication is seen as fulfilling the greatest commandment, which is to love Jehovah with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Baptism is the required step toward that dedication, confirming before witnesses that the person has dedicated their life to God. I hope this explanation based on the truth of the Bible helps clarify the role of dedication and baptism in our worship."
It's interesting, the word dedication, if memory serves, only appears three times in the Bible. Twice in a negative context, and once in a neutral context. The day of dedication, I think it is. Never in relationship to baptism, so you'd think that that would be crucial, wouldn't it? I mean, if God is telling us to be baptized and make a vow of dedication, he would tell us to do just that, but he hasn't. So let's see what Sarah has to say about that.
Okay, so I'm asking her, "Sarah, where does Jesus or any of the Bible writers tell us to make a vow of dedication to God before baptism? Where does the Bible say that baptism is a symbol of our dedication to God?"
Let's see what she says. That's a lot of stuff. I'm just asking for some scriptures. Let's scroll down here and see. Well, there's Luke 14:27, 28, 33, but that doesn't talk about dedication. “Whoever does not carry his torture stake and come after me cannot be my disciple.” Nothing about dedication or vows there. Romans 6:3-4, “Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” Okay, again, nothing about dedication or a vow of dedication.
Peter explains the saving element of baptism is not the physical cleansing, but the request to God for a good conscience. Again, nothing about dedication.
"This request reveals a kind of solemn sincere commitment to serve God with a clean conscience. This formal, internal commitment made to God is the essence of dedication."
Hmm, okay. Well, that's again, nothing, and certainly nothing about making a prayerful vow. It's one thing to be dedicated, but they also say you have to make a vow, and she hasn't provided any evidence of that. So let's see what ChatGPT has to say about this.
What she wrote sounds scriptural, but it relies on inference stacked upon inference, and it subtly smuggles in Watch Tower requirements that the Bible does not teach.
Yes, it... That's true.
This will help you show clearly how her reasoning is unscriptural. She admits the truth up front. The Bible never says baptism is a symbol of dedication. This is the most important point. She concedes the Bible does not contain a single verse that uses the precise phrases "vow of dedication" or "baptism is a symbol of dedication."
The Watch Tower doctrine is entirely extra-biblical.
The organization creates a requirement God never made.
From the first sentence, the JW position collapses. Her argument hinges on redefining discipleship as dedication vow, but Jesus never does this. Sara's entire reasoning depends on a major unsupported assumption. She equates discipleship with a private vow of dedication, but Jesus never defines discipleship that way. When Jesus said, "Follow me, take my yoke upon you, be my disciples," he never required a vow, formal promise, or a pre-baptism prayer of dedication. The Watch Tower inserts the idea of a formal vow that the Bible does not contain. This is exactly the accusation made against the Pharisees. "They teach as doctrines the commands of men."
I like number four.
Jesus never once requires a verbal vow before baptism. In the Bible, people are baptized immediately when they believe.
They don't have to answer 80 questions.
3,000 baptized in Acts 2: Ethiopian eunuch, Cornelius and his household, Philippian jailer.
Hmm. They like to explain, well, the Jews were already in a covenant of dedication. Yeah, okay, fine, but Cornelius wasn't. The Philippian jailer wasn't. See, their logic fails time and again.
And Jesus said that we should not vow. He said that, "Let your yes be yes, your no, no," but don't make vows. He said it, that belongs to the wicked one. Here the organization is telling us to make a vow, but Jesus tells us at Matthew 5:33-37 not to make a vow or swear an oath because that originates with "the wicked one". It comes from a demonic source.
Let's have a look at that. So I'm asking her, "Sara, God never tells us to make a vow of dedication. Why are you going beyond what is written and making a requirement, a commandment of men, teaching it as a doctrine from God when it is nothing of the kind?"
That is a serious and crucial challenge and one we must address using the Bible, as the Scriptures warn us against going beyond what is written. I understand your concern about turning a tradition into a requirement.
It's not a tradition. She's redefining it. It's not a tradition that has existed for a long time. They made it up.
Based on the faith I practice ...
There we have that phrase again. In other words, this is the way we do things.
We do not view the dedication as a commandment of men but as an inescapable spiritual necessity derived from the comprehensive commands of Christ. Here is why we teach that a prior prayerful commitment, which we call dedication or vow, is required, the implied vow in the in the Greatest Commandment. The act of dedication is the practical outworking of the two greatest commandments, which are explicitly mandated by Christ. You must love Jehovah with your whole...
Okay, loving him with your whole heart, et cetera, does not mean dedication. It doesn't require a vow. If it did, God would tell us to do that.
This commitment to dedicate every aspect of one's life to God's service is what we formalize in prayer. If a person were baptized without first making this whole soul commitment to obey Jehovah always, the act of baptism would be empty and meaningless.
And now, she's actually undone it. There it is. That's good. Yeah, that's good.
Therefore, the dedication is not an extra, manmade step. HA! But an internal realization of the Greatest Commandment expressed to God in prayer. WOW!
I agree.
From ChatGPT: That statement is not found in Scripture, contradicted by Scripture, internally inconsistent, theologically dangerous, a direct violation of 1 Corinthians 4:6, "Do not go beyond what is written." A Watch Tower invention from 1950 onward, not apostolic teaching. Let's break it down.
Here's the problem with that. “ If a person were baptized without first making this whole soul commitment to obey Jehovah always, the act of baptism would be empty and meaningless.
Quite the opposite. The act of baptism is the request made to God for a clean conscience. Why do you need to request God to give you a clean conscience? Because you do something every day that sullies your conscience, right? That's what being imperfect is. We're sinners. We're constantly failing, right? And so, we can't obey God always. We'd love to obey him always, but if I could obey God always, I'd be without sin. I'd be perfect. But I'm not. So, by making a vow of dedication that is a whole-souled commitment to obey Jehovah always, I am guaranteeing I will fail. I'm guaranteeing I will break my vow.
How often can you break a vow before the vow is null and void? Once. Once it's broken, it's broken, right? It's like a marriage. If a husband or wife commits adultery, sleeps with someone else, then their marriage vow is broken. Now, the wife can forgive, but that one instance breaks the vow. And so, the same here. The moment you sin, the moment you disobey God in some little way, you have broken your vow of dedication. And then what are you going to do? Make another vow? Every day, you make a new vow to renew the one that you broke the previous day? That's what this amounts to.
Let's see what she says to that.
"That is a very powerful and heartfelt objection, and I appreciate you pressing for clarity on this crucial matter of dedication and baptism. Your points about the impossibility of perfect obedience and the potential theological dangers are significant. I want to address each of your claims based on the spiritual perspective and the truth we find in the Bible." Well, let's see if she's doing it.
"Does the dedication vow require perfect obedience? You correctly point out that if the vow requires us to obey Jehovah always without fail, it is then broken immediately when all humans are imperfect and sin daily. This highlights a key point of clarification. The dedication vow does not mean vowing to achieve perfect perfection or sinless obedience. What the vow means, the vow of dedication is a commitment to the will and the course of life."
Well, she's changing what she said now.
"It is a sincere, whole-souled commitment to strive to do Jehovah's will, to repent when we stumble, and to make serving him the absolute priority of our lives, relying on Christ's sacrifice."
See how they've changed it? Yes, it, we have a sincere, whole-souled commit to strive to do Jehovah's will. Yes, and we also repent when we stumble. Yes, and we make serving him the absolute priority in our lives. Yes. That doesn't require us to make a vow.
“The Bible is full of examples of faithful servants who were dedicated to God yet still sinned. Their dedication was not invalidated by their mistakes. It was proven by their repentance and their continued determination. Therefore, the vow is not a legal contract promising sinlessness, but a covenant of undivided loyalty and lifelong devotion to follow Jehovah's will.”
Yes. If he wanted that, he would've told us to make a vow. He doesn't. So, I'm writing, "We can love God fully without swearing an oath to him. If he needed that, he'd have asked for it. So why are you making it a requirement? You are simply going beyond what is written, period." Yes, we must obey Jehovah. Yes, we strive to do his will. Yes, we love him in every way. None of that requires us to make a vow. This is a control mechanism.
Let's see what she says.
"I understand your firm position that a formal vow or oath should not be a requirement, especially given Jesus' counsel in Matthew 5, and your concern that this constitutes going beyond what is written. I respect your desire to adhere strictly to direct spiritual commands. As a testigo de Jehová..." She went back into Spanish. "As a Jehovah's Witness, I must emphasize that we view this not as a control mechanism, but as an expression of the depth of commitment demanded by God and exemplified throughout Scripture. While it is true that loving God does not require the specific word vow, the Bible shows that profound life-altering commitment is inherently expressed through solemn promises to God. The Bible's recognition of solemn lifetime promises to God. You are correct that we can love God without uttering the word vow. However, the Bible consistently treats the commitment of a lifetime of service as a solemn promise acceptable to God."
They just won't let it go, will they?
"The very nature of a covenant or agreement with God is a binding commitment. The marriage vow, the covenant of marriage is a lifelong vow. If such a promise is necessary for a human relationship, how much more so for the relationship with the creator, which involves eternal life?"
Okay. That's definitely a flawed line of reasoning. Let's just put that into ChatGPT. We'll see why it's flawed.
"The marriage vow analogy is one of the weakest and most misleading justifications ever used to defend the Watchtower's doctrine of a pre-baptism dedication vow. It collapses immediately when examined.
Marriage vows are explicitly commanded in Scripture. Baptism vows are not. Marriage covenant is directly taught in the Bible. Marriage is a covenant, 'a man cleaves to his wife. What God has joined together.' Scripture defines marriage as a covenant relationship. It includes leaving, cleaving, uniting, and lifelong faithfulness.
But the Bible never says a person must vow loyalty, dedicate themselves, promise lifelong obedience, or make a verbal commitment before baptism. Trying to justify a manmade baptism vow by appealing to a God-ordained marriage vow is a category error."
Anyway, we can go round and round. They simply will not admit that they're wrong, even though we've provided all the evidence. They will not admit that they're creating a manmade command and teaching it as a doctrine of God. They're making it a requirement, so that's a doctrine for salvation. To be saved, you have to make a vow of dedication before you get baptized.
But God does not require that, so they are going way beyond what is written by demanding this element as a salvation issue. Why exactly do they want that?
Again, it's a control mechanism, right? You're supposed to be dedicated to God. What does that mean? You need to go out in service all the time. You need to contribute to the kingdom hall. You need to build kingdom halls for us. You need to obey our every command, because we are your leaders. That's really what it amounts to. Obedience to God means obedience to the governing body. There you have it.