Why do we hold on to 1914 so tenaciously? Is it not because a war broke out in that year? A really big war, at that. In fact, “the war to end all wars.” Challenge 1914 to the average Witness and they won’t come at you with counter-arguments about the end of the gentile times or even 607 B.C.E. and the so-called 2,520 prophetic years. The first thing that springs to mind for the average JW is, “It has to be 1914, doesn’t it? That’s the year World War I broke out. That’s the start of the last days.”
Russell had many dates of prophetic significance—one even going back to the 18th Century. We’ve abandoned all of them, but one. I challenge you to find one Witness in a thousand who is aware of any of them, except for 1914. Why did we keep that one? Not because of the 2,520 years. Secular scholars agree that 587 B.C.E. is the date of the Jewish exile, so we could have easily adopted that and given ourselves 1934 at the start of Christ’s presence. Yet we gave that possibility not a moment’s thought. Why? Again, the coincidence of the Great War occurring in the very year we had publicized worldwide as the start of the Great Tribulation was too good to be passed over. Or was it a coincidence? We say NO! But why? There is nothing in our interpretation of Scripture that suggests a single big war on earth would mark the invisible enthronement of Christ. Matthew chapter 24 talks of “wars and reports of wars”. Many wars! There were only three wars reported in 1914, one famine and one earthquake. It hardly sweeps us away in the prophetic fulfillment department.
Ah, but we said the World War did fulfill prophecy connected with Christ’s enthronement in heaven. We say that it was caused by Satan who was cast out of heaven as the first action of the newly enthroned King. This angered Satan and brought woe to the earth and sea. The trouble with this interpretation is that the chronology doesn’t work. The Devil would have been cast down some time after the enthronement in October, 1914, but the War broke out in August of that year.[i] (Rev. 12:9, 12)
If 1914 had passed with nothing significant happening on the world stage, you can bet that our teaching about that year would have been quietly dropped just like 1925 and 1975 were. We’ve shown in the pages of this forum that there is no scriptural support for the idea of a 1914 commencement of Christ’s presence. So was it a coincidence; some sort of prophetic serendipity? Or is the Organizaion right? Did the Devil actually cause the war? Perhaps he did, but not for the reasons we think; not because he was angry at been cast down.[ii]
The reason we’re discussing this is to engage in a little bit of speculation. Now unlike they-who-must-be-obeyed, our speculation is just that—speculation, and nothing more. You should never believe speculation. You should merely keep it in mind if you find it plausible, ever ready for the proof that either confirms or denies it.
So here goes:
The Devil’s main purpose is the eradication of the seed. That’s clear from scripture. One of his most effective methods is to corrupt the seed. He sows “weeds among the wheat”. He is the great apostate and does whatever he can to mislead. Looking back from the middle of the 19th Century, it was evident that he’d done a pretty good job of corrupting Christianity. However, the 1800s were a time of enlightenment; of free thought and free expression. Many were looking into the Scriptures and old apostate teachings were being overturned.
One in particular who was notable for this was C.T. Russell. He actively and widely denounced that the Trinity, Hellfire, and the immortal soul teachings were false. He called people back to the Christ and promoted the idea that true worship must be free from the domination of a clergy class. He eschewed the very idea of organized religion. Organized religion was Satan’s great tool. Put men in charge and things just start to go wrong. Freedom of thought? Unrestricted investigation into God’s word? All this was anathema to the Prince of Darkness. What could he do? Satan doesn’t have new tricks. Just old ones that are tried and true and very reliable. After observing imperfect humans for close on six millennia, he knew just how to exploit our weaknesses.
Russell, like many of his time, had a penchant for numerology. It appears that Barbour, an Millerite (Adventist) set him down that path. The thought of decoding the supposedly hidden secrets of the Scriptures was too enticing to resist. Russell eventually dove into Egyptology and drew chronological calculations from measurements of the great pyramid of Giza. In most other ways he was an outstanding example of a disciple of Christ, but he failed to heed the Bible injunction against trying to know the times and the seasons that the Father has put in his own jurisdiction. (Acts 1:6,7) There’s no getting past it. You just can’t ignore any of the counsel of God, not matter how good your intentions, and expect to come away unscathed.
This fascination with numbers must have seemed to Satan like the perfect weapon to use against us. Here was the great manipulator faced with a community of Christians gradually returning to the teachings of Christ and freeing themselves from bondage to false religion. Remember, once the number of the seed is filled, Satan’s time is up. (Rev. 6:11) Talk about your great anger at having a short time.
The Bible students were coming up on the last and most important of all their date calculations. Having nailed their colors to the mast, should it fail, they would come away with their tail between their legs. (Forgive the mixed metaphor, but I’m only human.) A humbled Christian is a teachable Christian. It would have been hard for us, but we’d have been much better for it. However, if he could make us think we’d got it right, he would essentially be enabling us. Like the gambler who is about to quit for good because he’s lost almost everything, but whose last bet scores big time, we would just be emboldened by success.
The Devil didn’t have to guess. He knew the year we were predicting as the start of the great tribulation. What could be better than to give us a ‘war to end all wars’. The biggest war there ever was. He’d have to work at it. He doesn’t control the governments like some mad dictator. No, he can only influence and manipulate, but he’s really very good at doing that. He’s had thousands of years of practice. The events that produced the First World War were years in the making. There is an excellent book called The Guns of August that details the buildup. Sometimes on the most trivial of events the course of the 20th Century changed. An astonishing series of mishaps chained together involving the flight of the German warship, the Goeben. Change a single one of them and the course of world history would have been drastically altered. What befell that vessel was responsible for bringing Turkey into the war, dragging with it, Bulgaria, Rumania, Italy, and Greece. This caused exports and imports to virtually cease in Russia, contributing in great measure to the 1917 revolution with all its consequences. It resulted in the demise of the Ottoman empire and resulted in the subsequent history of the Middle East which plagues us to this day. Blind chance, or master manipulation? Evolution or intelligent design?
You be the judge. The fact is that the war gave us a reason to believe we had got it right. Of course, the great tribulation didn’t come in that year. But it’s easier to say we got it right but misread the true nature of the fulfillment than to admit there never was any fulfillment at all.
Emboldened by our success, Rutherford—no shrinking violet himself when it came to prophetic interpretations based on numerology—chose to preach in 1918 that by the middle of the next decade, the great tribulation would end.[iii] 1925 was to be the year that the ancient worthies—men like Abraham, Job, and David—would return to life to rule. “Millions now living will never die!” became the battle cry. There was ample reason to be bold. We’d got 1914 right, after all. Okay, so 1925 failed. But we still had 1914, so onward and upward!
What a coup this was for the Devil. He sidetracked us into putting our trust in the calculations of men. Rutherford took the helm and the loose association of Christian congregations under Russell was brought into a tight Organization where truth was channelled by one person and eventually one tiny group of men—just like every other organized religion. Rutherford used his power to lead us further astray by the belief we were not sons of God, but merely friends. It was the “children of God” that the Devil was afraid of. They comprise the seed and the seed will crush him in the head. (Gen. 3:15) He is at war with the seed. (Rev. 12:17) He’d love to make them disappear altogether.
The belief that 1914 is set in bedrock has enabled our human leaders to tie other prophecies to that year, key of which is the supposed appointment of a slave class to leads Jehovah’s people as his one appointed channel of communication. Disagreement with them on any grounds is dealt with most harshly: utter cutting off from all family and friends.
And now here we are, one hundred years later, still clinging tenaciously to a failed doctrine, twisting scriptures like Mat. 24:34 to fit with our increasingly frail theology.
All of this was made possible by the timely occurrence of the First World War. It missed absolute precision by only two months, but then, Satan doesn’t have absolute control. Still, that slight miss was ignored by those eager to find support for their prognostications.
Just think what might have happened if the War had not come for another five or ten years. Perhaps by then we would have given up on this unhealthy love of numbers and consolidated in the true faith.
“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.”
I would like to recommend this book: https://archive.org/details/treegenerationsandappointedtimes.7z
“[ii] The actual year of the Devil’s oust from heaven cannot be known with certainty at the present time. There is a basis for thinking it occurred in the first century, but an argument can also be made for a future fulfillment. Whatever the case, there is no evidence supporting 1914 as the year it happened.” Well, I think we should take seriously what Jesus himself reveals to us about this. In the book of Revelation, the Great tribulation takes place before the opening of the seventh seal and Satan is thrown out of heaven during the events after the… Read more »
Gerard, the premise of your argument seem to be that all the events are described in chronological order in revelation. I don’t see the basis for that. There are various visions and while chronological order may be present in each individual vision, I do not see the basis for concluding that the visions themselves are presented to us in chronological order.
[…] When the Black Death hit Europe, after the 100-years war, people thought the end of days had arrived. Likewise when the French Revolution broke out, people thought prophecy was being fulfilled and the end was near. We have discussed this in greater detail under the post “Wars and Reports of Wars — A Red Herring?” and “The Devil’s Great Con Job”. […]
Reblogged this on smolderingwickblog and commented: There was a time I believed Jehovah’s Witnesses were the only religion unfettered by dogma. Then, you couldn’t keep my mouth shut. No more. I came into this religion with both eyes open—even correcting the poorly worded “I’m a Jehovah’s Witness” phrase with “No-no, you can’t say ‘a Jehovah’s Witness.’ That’s just plain bad English! If my father’s name is John, would I say I’m a John’s son?” (then again maybe that’s where the Johnson family came from?)? Ever since the Watchtower changed policy in stating So and So “is no longer one of… Read more »
Physically it is not necessary to go anywhere else, but to remain stalwart for Christ in front of family and friends.
Presently, there are only two covenants, one of life, one of death. You have opened the door to the covenant of life.
I appreciate your comments. I cringe every time I hear a disfellowshipped person read off the platform that way . They have truly inserted themselves in a personal dedication between You and Jehovah through Jesus. I don’t know where I stand with what I perceive as kicking someone out of Jesus’ congregation. Unrepented wrongdoers will answer to God and True Christians will recognize these ones by their fruit and treat those ones according without throwing them out to the World. I believe if they are going to reprove ones that are erring and use the account of Diophetres that silencing… Read more »
Here is what it says on jw.org about shunning …
“What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.”
http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
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Really?
“normal family affections and dealings continue”
We are told to severely shunned them per the organizations instructions.
The website is NOT painting a honest picture of what the Watchtower has told us to do!!
Thanks for pointing that page out to us. This is a good example of “spin”. Spin describes a tactic most frequently associated with corrupt politics of using deception and misleading statements to “spin” a story in a way to distract people from the real truth. Sad that we should stoop to it. This page states emphatically that we do not shun former members of our religion. The whole truth is, we do. There are two ways of leaving. One is to “drift away” as the article states. That way you might go unnoticed and are not disfellowshipped, though there are… Read more »
Here is a example:
“What if we have a relative or a close friend who is disfellowshipped? Now our loyalty is on the line, not to that person, but to God. Jehovah is watching us to see whether we will abide by his command not to have contact with anyone who is disfellowshipped.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.” – (w12 4/15, Betrayal—An Ominous Sign of the Times!, Page 12)
Does that sound like “normal family affections and dealings continue” to you?
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13) But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” If a man was a practicing fornicator, idolater, drunkard, or any of such things, then it is doubtful that the family would have normal family… Read more »
It is important to read the context at 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. “Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father. 2 And are YOU puffed up, and did YOU not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from YOUR midst? 3 I for one, although absent in body but present in spirit, have certainly judged already, as if I were present, the man who has worked in such a way as this, 4 that in… Read more »
I only just realized the degree of duplicity in the official statement. Those who drift away are still considered members of the congregation. The question is, “Do You Shun Former Members…?” The fact is, only those who formally resign are “former members”. The rest are still visited, still considered inactive, but members, still invited to the Memorial. So we have not answered the question at all, but have deflected it. The simple and truthful answer is “Yes, we do.”
All your words are so true. It is an interesting term, being “inactive”, and all of you on this site who are deemed as such (myself included) are the true Christians, as well as you who are struggling within the confines of the organization. True light is warm and inviting, false light is harsh, unwanted, and the desire to turn it off (!) is strong. You who are seeing truth are displaying that warm light. Consider where the sheep should go. Should we stay in the pen with those disguised wolves or find Christ’s pen? (John 10:9) Romans 16:18 –… Read more »
I am new here and really appreciate the calm nature of the discussions that are scriptural based.
Witness since 74 and still in the prison although mentally out of the cell, this seems like a good place for those in my situation, keep up the great post.
Seems to me like there is a great dividing about to come about. Between those of us who are really seeking to understand the Bible and serve Jehovah God in an acceptable way and a group of false witnesses who are serving the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It makes me wonder now why there are so many ‘inactive’ ones. Its not that they don’t love Jehovah, they just can’t stand the flip-flops, the inconsistencies and the sometimes outright unfairness and heavy-handedness of the brothers. Agape!
That is why many of us are inactive. Yet , we are being told that the reasons that we are inactive is because of some misunderstandings on our part, Not embracing the new clarifications ( of false doctrines …but I digress) or being bitter toward the brothers. I am inactive from depression plain and simple. I felt horrible when I see all the smiling faces at the Hall and I am not Happy at all. It is not because I am not appreciative of Jehovah and all he’s done ( althought the WT’s imply that someone like me is not… Read more »
Amen to that Brother The truly sad thing is the damage that these false teachings can do, and the way that acceptance of them is often enforced. I personally knew a brother who had suffered with constant illness for years and longed for the ‘New System” to come based on the WTS insistence that the end was close. When the society adjusted its version of the generation in 1995 he could no longer accept the constant nagging doubts he had. Coupled with this he was hounded by a couple of elders who believed his constant sickness was related to a… Read more »
Yes chris ive seen things like that as well. Some of the elders go too far in their zeal to vehemently stick to the religious rules prescribed for us and cause untold damage to the brothers and sisters. Galatians 6 v 1. You who have the spiritual qualifications must readjust. What qualifcations is it because weve been appionted as an elder by the society. No its the spiritual qualifications mentioned in the context at galatians 5. Love kindness goodness long suffering peace. Ect. If we have these we should never fail our brothers and sisters. Its these that make a… Read more »
This term inactive. Its so wrong this label how can any be an inactive christian its all based on this judgemental attitude again. They get it all wrong they have a one track mind thinking that christianity is all about banging on peoples doors. We studied matthew 5 last week let you light shine that they may see your good works and gloryfy god in heaven. What good works arent they acts of kindness motivated by the faith and love we have for others. Anyway we can do a hundred hours a month if we want. But at the end… Read more »
Great comments. I am forcing myself to sit in the hall because I have smaill children and my husband insists that I need to rely on Jehovah and give my kids the same spritual foundation that both he and I were raised with. I usually use this time to read the bible and the moment I find something worthwhile to listen to while I am there, I get easlily annoyed by something that is said that I believe to be unscriptural. Not sure how much longer I can do this. My eyes have been opened and it is very hard… Read more »
I feel exactly same. I spend much time reading Bible during the meetings and often feel really annoyed by the WT propaganda. I still do try hard to concentrate on many positive things in the Org, but it’s getting harder and harder. My wife insists that we need to rely on Jehova and I understand her point. I like our brothers and sister and I don’t want to lose them. Time will tell how to solve this dilemma.
I guess the question becomes, Rely on Jehovah for what?
Well I’m sure you have heard many JW’s say wait on Jehovah to set matters straight. I would like to believe that the teachings are not what soley binds The brotherhood together…. it’s genuine love. If you Love Jehovah and his law you cannot be helped but be moved to love others. I’m not sure that if I left I could find this anywhere else. However on the flip side that “love” is conditional. If you were disfellowshipped ,disassociated ,marked or branded as “weak” or express dissent about the “slave”or it’s teachings you would be shunned. We are taught to… Read more »
Hi GWIT, I am like you, I sit in the hall and basically use my time to read bibles (yes, multitude on my tablet). All verses mentioned I look up in various bibles and it becomes most interesting to see the differences. Last week during service meeting, John 17:3 was mentioned and the brother used a watchtower to explain why the ald NWT translation was so good as it stresses KNOWLEDGE. I indicated that the new 2013 release (I am Dutch and we still do not have that bible) translates this verse differently now You should have seen all the… Read more »
When we refer to Satan’s great “Con” game, we are always reminded of something. God’s Word tells us we must all “conquer” Satan … less he “conquer” us. (1 Peter 5:8) Because there is no middle ground for Christians when fighting this wicked person. When dealing with him, we cannot be idle. We must always vigorously “oppose him” to maintain our Christian standing, and our Christian Ministry. (Romans 11:13; James 4:7) I think Revelation 12:11 provides vital encouragement we need at critical times like these, by saying: “And they conquered him [Satan] because of the blood of the Lamb and… Read more »
Yes I think that’s a good point observer 17 so its not just a case of going from door to door the import of these verses imply a willingness to tenaciously confess faith in jesus and what he taught as truth despite terrible persecution hurled at us from others. Its interesting that this usually comes from established organised religion. As it did in the first century when the disciples said we must obey god as ruler rather than men. Thanks again.
Hi Key, Precisely! 🙂 Just as you said, “We must obey God as Ruler, rather than men” when it comes to whether “truth” is taught to the brotherhood of Christ-like followers. (Acts 5:29) Jesus said: “… For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” (John 18:37) Paul told Christians at Corinth, we must obey “truth” at all cost. The fight for “truth” is primary mission, in following Jesus. At 2 Cor. 10:5… Read more »
Why do they need Obedience ? Why do they even want it ?? What right do they have to even ask that of Servants of Jehovah? Why is questioning their teachings in my heart tantmount to “testing Jehovah” in my heart? I am really struggling to grasp this. Why is Jehovah allowing this ? Or is he ?
A valid question. Israel was Jehovah’s nation, typified by Jerusalem–his pre-Christian organization, if you will. It went apostate, and he allowed it to happen to test them. He destroyed his nation, Jerusalem, in 70 C.E., but prior to that He had permitted deviation and tolerated for a long time “vessels of wrath” so that he could “make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy”. Christendom, which includes Jehovah’s Witnesses–though they would be loathe to admit it–is the antitypical Jerusalem. He is still tolerating vessels of wrath so that he can again “make known the riches of his… Read more »
Acts 5:29 would seem to be all that one would need to counter any argument requiring absolute and unquestioning obedience to the powers-that-be. However, I wonder what the reaction would be were you to use it in that context. I would hazard to guess that the elders would consider that verse to apply to the world. They would view the Governing Body as excluded from it because they hold that the Governing Body is God’s appointed channel of communication. There is a odd disconnect in the minds of many witnesses in this regard. If the Governing Body speaks under inspiration… Read more »
I’m not so sure about the “nice ring”. I’m feeling I’ve been BUTOed a few times too many 🙂
Yes and I think we still need to be respectful. The overuse of acronyms can easily deteriorate into disrespectful hate-mongering. We know that the Governing Body has sown its own exclusive truth falsely, and it is they who must answer for it, not us. But if we make it our religion to attack their religion, then we are no better. Since it is they who have fostered the exclusivity of truth upon themselves, it is up to them to reprove themselves before the spirit of both God and Christ comes upon them for their hypocrisy in this, lest we forget… Read more »
Well, I suppose it’s better than Believe Until Told To Stop. Now there’s an acronym that could “easily deteriorate into disrespectful hate-mongering”! Thanks SM1 for a much-appreciated call to modesty and balanced perspective.
Looks like a dodged a bullet there. 🙂
Nice thoughts guys. Meleti I find myself lately reading accounts and meditating on the actions of Apostate Israel. I’m sure those who were appalled by the apostasy were also very discouraged. I wish it was as easy as seeing idols in the Kingdom Hall ,child sacrifice, false prophets deliberately prophesying falsely etc. I pray to Jehovah that like Paul/Saul the scales on my eyes continue to fall off as I learn the true nature of my relationship with God as His child. The thing is….. I KNOW that they must get tons of letters regarding doctrines such as 1914….From what… Read more »
And a most accurate observation it is, GodsWordIsTruth. The letters in reply will ignore questions that they cannot answer, restate the official position and often counsel the writer against presuming to write in again with his/her own ideas.
Just a thought…Even during the time Jesus was on the earth…The jews were faced with false teachings. The Sadducees didn’t believe in the resurrection and from my Recent( but incomplete) research and study of the Pharisees they had a very interesting set of beliefs …they claimed Mosaic authority for their interpretation of Jewish laws…Yet Jesus told his disciples essentially to do as they say and not as they do. I’m sure our Lord did not mean for them to uphold teachings they knew to be false. Jesus did occasionally expose their unreasoning hearts with they tried to trap him. He… Read more »
Just came across this considering 1914, “birth pains or pains of distress”;a long dissertation but a clear and simple way to disprove 1914 as the birth of the Kingdom.
http://thekingdomwasnotbornin1914.blogspot.com.au/
Yes, I do agree with the writer that the Kingdom of God is born through a process of birth pangs, but disagree with the writer as to what the “Kingdom of God” actually is. As to the site that has been posted. http://thekingdomwasnotbornin1914.blogspot.com.au/ Yet Jesus over and over again told his disciples of what the “Kingdom of God” is and yet apparently they still did not get it and neither do many get it today. The Kingdom of God, is not a Government. It is a constitution, a “way” of life. That is why the early Christians were known as… Read more »
Greetings Meleti,
You asked, “Why do we hold on to 1914 so tenaciously?”
Could it be our mistaken perception of Daniel 7:13, 14 and what it is talking about actually?
Any thoughts?
Jamaican JW
Actually, it was a rhetorical question. 🙂
Hi Meleti, 🙂 Just wondering if you or Apollos have written anything kept in the archives of this site, covering the possible meaning of Daniel 7:13, 14 which says: 13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an… Read more »
I don’t believe we have discussed it explicitly, but there are many things in the basket which have yet to be brought out for discussion. With the demise of the 1914 doctrine, there are so many prophetic scriptures that deserve a fresh, unbiased look. Our problem is lack of time due to the need to keep food of the physical kind on the table.
Hi JJW, When you ask about the explanation of this prophecy I assume you are purely referring to the timing of its fulfillment, as I would think the rest of it is beyond dispute. We can start by making an observation about the chronology in relation to 1914. If we go with the official doctrine for now, then the small horn represents the Anglo-American world power, which is a part of the beast that is completely destroyed in the preceding verses. Since this has not yet taken place then we must either accept that vs 13 & 14 were not… Read more »
Meleti, you said: The Devil’s main purpose is the eradication of the seed. That’s clear from scripture. One of his most effective methods is to corrupt the seed. That statement, as blatantly correct as it is, is far from obvious to the Witness masses. Satan’s only enemy is the woman’s seed, thus setting up a military “ruse”, a decoy, a counter fulfillment (1914) is his favorite tactic. Bait lies with a few truths and hauling in the humble ones becomes a cinch. 2 Cor. 11:14 This is the sad, sad, state of affairs as the GB has snuffed out the… Read more »
Well said! We place both our sights and our “sites” on the true leader…
😉
Meleti
I saw that after I posted, but figured it could work!
Haven’t read any of these books but I have read about robert J liftons. Mind control techniques. That’s a very interesting study
On August 23rd, 1973 two machine-gun carrying criminals entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden. Blasting their guns, one prison escapee named Jan-Erik Olsson announced to the terrified bank employees “The party has just begun!” The two bank robbers held four hostages, three women and one man, for the next 131 hours. The hostages were strapped with dynamite and held in a bank vault until finally rescued on August 28th. After their rescue, the hostages exhibited a shocking attitude considering they were threatened, abused, and feared for their lives for over five days. In their media interviews, it was clear that… Read more »
Well this is just amazing! I’ve always wondered about the 1914 doctrine, and the tie-in with the generation. I am totally confused with the “overlapping” generation, and I give up on trying to understand if there is or is not a faithful and discreet slave or if there is one, is it one person or a group of persons?!? :(? I remember taking a philosophy class several years ago. I don’t remember the name of the philosopher or his particular story, but it was a tale about a dweller in a cave who was given opportunity to walk about in… Read more »
Observer17 I like the quote from Carl Sagan and here’s another one that speaks to me. It is from his book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” I do understand how… Read more »
I remember doin the talk many times is it time for god to rule the world. Two lines of evidence the numerology and the circumstantial. The cicumstantial was always more convincing to me. Than starting at 607. Adding 7 times extracted from daniel 4. And revelation. 12. And arriving at 1914. I always thought we were stretching it. Revelation 11 v 15 at the end used to make me feel really uncomfortable. The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our god and his christ and he will rule forever. From that perspective 1914 didn’t seem to make… Read more »
Isn’t that really the gist of Jesus’ words at Mat. 24:4-6? “Look out that nobody misleads YOU; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.”? He was aware that the human tendency would be to see signs in catastrophic events, and he was telling us not to because the events that would indicate his presence would be unmistakable and unique.… Read more »
Oh by the way thanks for your comments on the ressurection I found them to be very helpful. I think some of us have a hard time sometimes trying to work out what the real truth is but when we hear it. Do recognise it as such hebrews 5 v 14. We might actually be seeing a fullfilment of ephesians 4 on this site about the role of teachers in the congregation. Thanks again meleti.
Hi all, I’m not in the congregation currently, but over the past year I have done some very deep exploration on JW origins, doctrine and the like. It is so wonderful knowing that I am not alone in my findings. You all touch upon many of the ideas that I had discovered for myself. Your site is a great resource for awakening witnesses, as it does not contain any of the bias or the hate that is found on other sites. I know that Jehovah is using you all as a light in a very dark place. I’m sure that… Read more »
Yes that’s why I lke this site. All I wanted to know right from the start of my bible study with the witnesses was the real truth of the bible. I told them that. I know now that what I have been taught contains a bias. But there’s no way that I want to listen now to bias the other way because of bitternes. The only motive I have is that I still just want to know what the real truth is.
Hi Meleti, You asked above: “Why do we hold on to 1914 so tenaciously?…” World renown Scientist Carl Sagan (1934-1996), makes the following observation about this particular teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses: Link to comment on net: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081123094142AA86Hw9 What religion is Carl Sagan describing in the following quote from his book “Broca’s Brain”? Curious Jorge asked 5 years ago The quote can be found on pages 332-333 and is as follows: “Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions. But not always. ONE… Read more »
Another great article. I encountered a similar reasoning on www. e-watchman.com, trying to argue that the hurling Satan down to earth is still future event and the world war 1 was maneuvered by Satan to deceit God’s people. I think that’s possible. Realizing that teaching about 1914 is false, is causing very mix feelings in me, though. I can’t figure out how I can conduct Bible study with our “What Does the Bible Teach” book and avoid this and many other disputable subjects. I can’t do that and that made me to hand some studies over to somebody else. Can’t… Read more »
Hi Anonymous, I am with you, I have realized that the foundation of my beliefs is broken which makes it very hard to continue to tell people to become a JW. Glad to be able o share this.
Dear Anonymous I have a number of bible studies, but as far as I am concerned, they are MY bible studies and they want to study the bible not JW doctrine and I have a responsibility to help them. I am still doing the bible teach book but have started to skip certain paragraphs and appendixes that I know are wrong. I have told them that the bible teach book is merely a guide and can be erroneous, and that only the bible is truth. As I formulate a better understanding of the truth, I will incorporate this in our… Read more »
Thanks for sharing that Sagan quote. I’m sure that had I read it a year or two ago, I would have found some way to discount it, so sure was I of the rightness of our cause. This is the problem in putting trust in men. As I said in the article–and I’m applying this to me specifically–one can’t ignore a Bible principle and come away unscathed. The principle is found at Ps. 146:3 and we as JWs think that the Governing Body is the exception to the rule, when in fact, there is no exception to the rule. Even… Read more »
Yes your right, it is quite exciting……and bemusing as we watch things unfold.
When I think how long I considered Christendom to be the dragnet and that we were no longer part of false religion, only to realize that we are in fact part of the dragnet, and the separation of the wheat is a much more specific angelic undertaking than we previously thought.
As the old saying goes “The Lord moves in mysterious ways”
In line with the Sagan quote, Leon Festinger’s “When Prophecy Fails” is a fascinating and worthwhile read for those who haven’t yet done so. It’s not about JW’s, but it is impossible to read it and not see the psychological parallels at work.
Apollos
“When Prophecy Fails and Faith Persists: A Theoretical Overview” by Lorne L. Dawson is a very interesting analysis of how religious groups deal with failed predictions. The pdf is easy to find on line.
Luke 10
18 And He said to them, I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning! [LITV]
What did Jesus mean by this statement to his disciples?
Was this something in the present or the future, or even in the past?
Searcher,
Excellent question!
It ties right in with what Meleti said above:
“The actual year of the Devil’s oust from heaven cannot be known with certainty at the present time. There is a basis for thinking it occurred in the first century, but an argument can also be made for a future fulfillment…”
Observer17
This article I believe is a great foundation to re teach the generation teaching….
Very RICH Article…change a few dates around and this is good source