Midweek Meeting Comments – Feb. 17, 2014

Comment by Alex Rover on 2014-02-17 00:09:19

"Let us press ahead to better things and with our newfound awareness of our rightful role as Christians, let us enjoy this memorial as we were meant to."
I'm happy to have helped at least 2 JW friends in the past year embrace their calling.
I for sure will stand up for Christ this memorial, and it may be a testament to my Heavenly Father that it is all I desire, to serve him wholly until my dying breath.
Matthew 10:32,33
Whoever acknowledges me before others,
I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.
But whoever disowns me before others,
I will disown before my Father in heaven

• Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-17 00:51:59

  Amen Alex! I have also made the same decision prayerfully.
  I am not sure if I will partake at the JW memorial or privately to respect the strong views of others. I strongly believe that my age will stumble others if I partake at the Hall . Whatever decision God leads me to make on where to partake , I pray that in the end I don't shrink back from partaking in public or in private because I am being cowardly.(or I extremely uncomfortable in doing so)
  It is a commandment of Christ. I would rather obey His command than disobey it based on an unscriptural exemption that men has given me.

  • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-17 08:37:29

    (or I extremely uncomfortable in doing so)
    that should read...
    (or because I am extremely uncomfortable in doing so)

    • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-17 09:49:19

      This is personal, but perhaps of some use.
      I prepare my heart for the memorial. (I have a vague idea catholics do something like this, and I never been catholic, but somehow came to this similar feeling.)
      From jan 1 onward, but especially 40 days prior to the memorial I try extra triple hard to rid myself of anything jehovah wouldn't like.
      This is in line with the scripture to not take the symbols unworthily. Just because I want to approach this with the greatest dignity possible. In the weeks before the memorial I prepare my heart, mind, body and soul and spend more time in praying and meditating.
      To really eat from the table of Jehovah I want to be found worthy to the best of my ability. This is in harmony with the laver in the tabernacle: the priest had to wash their hands and feet before entering the tent.

      • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-17 14:56:45

        Alex-
        Thanks for your advice :)
        Based on your comment do you believe that moral uncleanness =taking the emblems unworthily?
        If you commit a serious sin…apparently the GB can remove your anointing. According to the GB if you commit a “serious sin” and partake of the emblems you are doing so unworthily until you confess to the elders. After you produce “fruits” that the Elder’s deem befit repentance then you can partake of the emblems again. Otherwise you are partaking from the table of demons and the table of Jehovah.
        “Paul compared the Memorial to a communion meal in ancient Israel. He spoke of the partakers sharing together in Christ and then said: “You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons.” (1 Corinthians 10:16-21) If a person who usually partakes of the Memorial emblems commits a serious sin, he should confess this to Jehovah and also seek the spiritual assistance of the older men of the congregation. (Proverbs 28:13; James 5:13-16) If he truly repents and produces fruitage befitting repentance, he would not be partaking unworthily.—Luke 3:8.” (W03 2/15 pp. 17-22)
        Meleti’s thoughts are here (He may have changed or adjusted his view)
        http://meletivivlon.com//?s=unworthily
        I admit that particular scripture is a big part of why I feel the way that I do. However, I am convinced from scripture it is the right thing to do. I know that partaking unworthily is not perhaps a cause for instant death from God :) It still concerns me……

        • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-17 16:13:59

          If you knowingly violate Jehovah's commandments or live in sin, then stop practicing sin and repent before going to the Memorial. You don't want to take it lightly. Elders can't give you absolution of sin, but in some cases they can help you heal.

      • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-17 16:35:51

        Let me clarify,
        Do you think that is what this scripture means? That we could be partaking unworthily if we are not cleansed from sins? We are all sinners.
        I am not speaking of what the GB refers to as “gross sins”.

        • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-17 16:48:26

          "knowingly violating" and "living in sin" and "practicing sin" is what i described, you may call this "gross sin" if you like, but even knowingly and continually practicing small sins without repentance stains you. if you are anointed your body is a holy temple and you are yourself part of a holy body, the body of Christ. You are looking forward to be married to Christ, as a bride pure and white and holy to her husband.
          Thus you WANT TO partake worthily. I am saying this as something that even the biggest sinner can attain to for this special occasion. Anointed have consecrated themselves to Jehovah, their sins are automatically forgiven, so partaking worthily is not about the sin itself, but about how casual we are about it. It's not just any meal, it has a very precious meaning and Jesus himself is there with us that very night.

          • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-02-17 17:15:42

            That is a weighty line of reasoning .Thank you for responding. I am going to prayerfully meditate on those thoughts.

        • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-17 16:51:38

          An example is an anointed who lives in adultery. His conscience will accuse him if he partakes from the symbols at the memorial. But instead of this, he will "go and sin no more" knowing his sins are forgiven, and partake of the memorial worthily.

Comment by miken on 2014-02-17 07:10:58

"but Jesus—for whom we are holding the memorial—is not mentioned at all".
Jesus is also not mentioned once in the recently leaked Elder's training video's dealing with judicial committee handling of fornication and a shepherding visit to a sister having suicidal thoughts. No mention of Jesus invitation at Matt 11:28-30 of course as she is not allowed to communicate with him.
"Matthew 10:32,33
Whoever acknowledges me before others,
I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.
But whoever disowns me before others,
I will disown before my Father in heaven"
With regard to our memorial meeting the following article provides food for thought about personal responsibility in this event.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-02-17 08:45:40

  Greetings Miken,
  No offense intended, but I have removed the link you left because, while some of the things this group teaches are not objectionable, it has come to our attention that they seem to be promoting themselves in a sectarian way, so in line with Scriptural injunction, we prefer not to be linked in any way with them. You may not have realized this yourself and in fact we only came to this realization recently.

  • Reply by miken on 2014-02-17 09:00:17

    No problem Meleti. However I do think we all have to seriously consider Jesus words at John 6:53-58 with regard to the memorial meeting.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-02-17 09:08:57

      Absolutely. In fact, we have a post planned on that theme prior to the memorial this year.

  • Reply by on 2014-02-19 18:32:18

    Our focus seems to be on the jw.org website. Participating in the tract work isn't to draw individuals to the Christ, but to sway them toward the organization. pioneeringn just gets the GB more tract distributors, not preachers.i feel the message in the tracts, (not the tracts themselves), cheapens our ministry.

    • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-19 19:07:09

      The tract campaigns for jw.org are brute-force SEO. Just like wachtower magazine is the most read in the world, they want jw.org to be #1 on google, ahead of wikipedia. I know there are now SEO bethelites, so the objective is pretty transparent.

Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-17 09:43:55

The Bible reading reminded me of Meleti’s comment last week of how local customs governed the affairs of everyday life during this time . It also impressed upon me why the Law covenant and judges was needed to govern the matters of everyday life for God’s people.
The account in Genesis does not paint Laban to be an honest or fair man. He violated the local custom and his agreement with Jacob for his daughter Rachel. He made Jacob work an additional seven years for Rachel. (Gen 29:13-28.) Laban’s deceit caused Jacob many problems ( there is a fierce competition between Rachel and Leah). Jacob only intended to marry Rachel.
At one point Jacob wanted to leave with his family but Laban urged him to stay and continue to work for him. They made an agreement regarding the division of the flock as payment for his service. (Ge 30:25-28) (Ge 30:31-34 )Laban then changes their agreement when it becomes apparent that Jacob’s flocks are doing well . In keeping with his deceitful nature, Laban removes all of the animals from his herd that could quickly produce speckled offspring because he wanted to keep Jacob around longer (Gen 35–36). Then it is by divine revelation God commands Jacob to return to the land of promise( Ge 31:1-5, 13, 17, 18.) Jacob flees in secret . Laban and his family are angry with Jacob at his abrupt departure and want to kill him . Jacob violated their custom ( when he took “Laban’s” family in secret )and Laban’s family accuse him of stealing their idols. ( Rachel actually stole them) Jehovah warns Laban not to harm Jacob. Jacob and Laban finally reach an agreement amongst their families and conclude by making a covenant to establish peace.( Gene 31:41-44)
When we examine Jacob’s dealings with others he is not particularly painted in a good light from Genesis. He purchased the birthright from Esau legally. (Genesis 25:31-33) Was it ethical ? I do not think so. The deception of Isaac in order to obtain the blessing was legal. In fact, it even brought about what God had promised would happen but in a way that was displeasing to God (Genesis 27) (Genesis 25:23) The way Jacob went about accomplishing what Jehovah wanted ultimately put his life in danger with Esau and Laban. However, Jehovah blessed Jacob and his family because He knew Jacob was a good man. He desperately wanted Jehovah’s blessing and he appreciated spiritual things. We can see the demonstration of Jacob’s love for Jehovah thus far in our reading of Genesis :
• At Genesis 32:22-31 he wrestles with an angel all night for God’s blessing
• At Gen 35:1,2 He tells his family to get rid of all the foreign gods and to purify themselves. They join him in worship of Jehovah at Bethel at the Altar Jacob built .
• At Gen 35:11-12 Jehovah blesses him and tells him he will give the land of his forefathers Abraham and Issac.
Jacob did the best he could to please God with ethical system he had at that point in his life. I appreciate Jacob’s love and Obedience to Jehovah based on his limited knowledge of right and wrong. Jehovah blessed him for it :)

Comment by In Need of Grace on 2014-02-17 15:12:47

I want to share these interesting finds with the group:
http://biblestudyconnection.blogspot.com/2009/02/rachel-meets-jacob-at-well.html
http://biblestudyconnection.blogspot.com/2009/02/mandrakes.html

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-02-17 20:50:46

Meleti, I agree with the "if-only" game we all play, especially those who have been "in the truth" for most of their lives. I believe I have heard an expression about how regret affects us..."It's like swallowing poison, and waiting on someone else to die". That seems like it could equally apply to other situations as well.
I choose to hold onto the positive things, I know how to speak in public, how to modulate and project my voice, etc and I am not afraid to speak up in public. I have a good foundation of morality, which has not changed. I stayed out of trouble, though I'm sure my mother would have told you that I was rebellious and obstinate. I know how to talk into a microphone if someone else is holding it in front of my mouth. I know how to cook for and serve a (hungry) crowd. I learned how to get along with anybody. I learned the names of the books of the Bible. I can recite (some) scriptures by heart.
My biggest challenge now is re-learning the Truth in the Bible (not the New World translation though. Who knew how many translations were out there, even though the WT even quoted from some of them.?
Acceptance of not being able to change my past does keep me peaceful and serene.
As I read more of your articles, I realize what a witty sense of humor you have. I believe humor is crucial as we are in our transitioning phase.
"5 min: Are You Using jw.org in Your Ministry?
I must answer “No”. I do use the Bible however."
Proverbs 17:22 A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. (ESV)
Psalm 126:2 Then our mouth was filled with laughter, and our tongue with shouts of joy; then they said among the nations, “The Lord has done great things for them.” (ESV)

• Reply by Menrov on 2014-02-19 08:50:38

  Although not a country gil :) I share your feelings. I just read the program for tonight (which is discuss here already), and indeed, peculiar ponts. I find it more and more difficult or even disturbing that even in related to the memorial, Jesus is not even mentioned. I am in the same situation: re-learning the Truth.
  There are so many things I now see being slightly wrong to being a complete lie. But it is most difficult not being able to share these observations and pure facts with people close around me. well. this forum at least is one way to share..

Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2014-02-18 11:18:29

As for memorial, I have ceased from partaking of false Christs. What is a false Christ? One who directs men to say one day what such men must confess was a mistake when unfulfilled. When this happens repeatedly and men call their correction old light while demanding trust and obedience to a new light, this is from a false Christ. Those who confess that the direction they uttered was in error must also confess that they proclaimed a false Christ if they want those from whom they demand obedience to trust that the true Christ is shining through.
sw

Comment by on 2014-02-19 11:43:09

So, District Conventions are now going to be called Regional Conventions. Does that make a District Overseer a Regional Overseer?

• Reply by menrov on 2014-02-20 03:50:39

  And if I heard well, the Zone (or district) Overseer will be called HEADOFFICE REPRESENTATIVE.
  Seems more and more the organisation is becoming a global corporation (like the multinational I work for), where people reporting to local branch office are becoming 'employees' of the headoffice. A bit strange as a branch office cannot be called headoffice. Unless these 'jobs' are now manage from the core headoffice. Unclear to me at this point why these changes..........
  Anyway, a decade (or two) ago, we criticized the Catholic Church about their 'wordly' structure but this organisation is not far off anymore.
  Jesus had no headoffice, not even proper place to rest. Paul never accepted any support from the congregations but worked to support himself.

Comment by on 2014-02-19 12:02:26

I used the Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on Genesis during my Bible Highlights part from Genisis 29-31, referring to it as my favorite Bible study aid.

• Reply by on 2014-02-19 14:56:44

  Ooh! Be careful about using commentaries. Bible knowledge lately seems to be the work of the Devil.
  Makes me feel bad about a letter from a Governing Body member I received, thanking me for my contribution of Bible commentaries books to the Gilead library.
  Of course, current Gilead students would not be encouraged to consult those works.

  • Reply by on 2014-02-19 17:17:42

    Interestingly enough, i received some very positive comments from some of the friends after the meeting. We talked about Laban, Rachel, Leah's "dull eyes', and the way the commentary explained it. funny, nobody mentioned anything from the service meeting.

    • Reply by on 2014-02-19 19:41:59

      That's the beauty of this "safe" site.

      • Reply by on 2014-02-20 13:44:49

        Yes, it is a beautiful site, my Anonymous twin contributor. However, I still feel as if I'm all alone in the congregation; attempting to keep the Bible and The Master Jesus in the forefront. After my spirited Bible Highlights part covering Genesis 29-31,I started dozing off during the Service meeting. Why?

        • Reply by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-02-20 15:28:07

          Thank you Meliti, now I understand SEO. It seems I remember reading that not everyone's google searches turn up the same results. Google is spying on us. I know, what a shocker! The search it shows is individualized based on your past searches so they can then tailor their advertising to you for sites they believe you will be inclined to make purchases from.
          The problem with this is over time it restricts your results, based on what you've searched for in the past, sort of locking you into the same results each time, not giving you fresh sites with different choices.
          The part I haven't figured out is "Brute" SEO. Can a site someone skew the results so it seems theirs is the most popular? Do they pay to have their site seem like the most popular?
          I know this is off topic, but I think it's important for us to know how search engines are rigged to search through billions of sites and yet come up with nearly the same results each time. This is a very broad description and I'm not sure I've done a very good job of explaining this properly. I am not an expert on the psychology behind search engines, I know just enough....to be dangerous. But at least it's on your radar now.

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-02-20 01:52:53

Alex what is "brute-force SEO"?

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-02-20 07:59:12

  Alex is referring to a process called Search Engine Optimization. For example, if you type "jehovah's witnesses" (sans quotes) into google.com you may find, as I just did, that jw.org is the first link found. However when I typed "jehovah's witnesses salvation", the jw.org site was at the bottom of the second page page. The GB would love it if their site was always the first one found on any search involving Jehovah's Witnesses. For example, if you type "jehovah's witnesses child abuse", the jw.org site FAQ on the subject doesn't appear until the middle of the second pages. A lot of people never go beyond the first page in any search they do.
  Getting 8 million people to distribute a quarter of a billion tracts about the web site is bound to generate a lot of internet traffic directly to our site. Search engines notice that kind of traffic and based on criteria coded into them will start to rearrange the priority given that cite in future searches.
  One benefit of this is that when people search on a controversial topic, they will likely click on the first link and if that is ours, they will get our message first. The idea is to control the story.

  • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-02-20 08:37:30

    Thanks for the explanation Meleti . It's amazing to me how corporate Jehovah's "earthly organization" is becoming .......

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-02-20 09:53:16

    It is interesting to note that typing the words, "seven shepherds eight dukes" puts jw.org at the top, but our humble little site occupies positions 3 through 5.

• Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-02-20 15:37:31

  You can open a locked door to which you lost the key in two ways:
  you can stomp it in with all your force, or a refined hand can work its way in by circumventing the lock.
  Typically it takes a lot of time and resources to make it to the front page of Google, let alone the top three results. Some words are easier than others, of course.
  But our website is new. The content is new. And not many christian websites like to link to us because .. (ill let you fill in the blank yourself).
  Anyway in terms of ranking on the internet, it's really all about the links. Ironically, a site like jw.org actually gets the majority of its inbound links from apostate websites, since witnesses are discouraged to post on the net.
  That leaves the jw site at a huge disadvantage: the door is locked!
  So how do they plan to get through the door? They realize they have an army of 7 million publishers. What if each time they go to a door, they leave magazines that point to the website, ask the publishers to talk about the website. This amount of people, worldwide, visiting our site is a huge force to be reckoned with, making google place significantly more importance to the site than it would normally do, because people would link to GOOD content that is WORTH sharing.
  No other organization on earth has this amount of worldwide advertising employees, so it's a unique technique to boost the site relying on pure, sheer numbers to enter the top rankings 'by force'.

Comment by Alex Rover on 2014-02-20 09:06:37

So I just realized the new WT for May is up.
Now here's the deal: we've had spiritually empty, 100% propaganda watchtower study articles for months now. Think of obedience, help financially, more obedience, shun people who are not obedient, do more in service, a prophecy invention about dukes to prove you have to be obedient, ETC
A single reading of a chapter in the bible has taught and refreshed me more than a half year worth of WT studies.
But with good hope I open the PDF and look at the study titles in the latest edition. Surely they are done with the endless propaganda?
....
....
Nope!
....
Two articles on how to be better at maintaining the image of christians when preaching. It's full of common sense stuff like respect the peoples privacy and love your neighbor (really?). No depth whatsoever, it's page filler with benefits for the org.
And the last two articles are about proving their was an earthly organization, and that it is vital for salvation. Noah, Israel,... But when I saw the opening picture of the last article I nearly threw up. You see true Christians leaving Jerusalem. Leaving an earthly organization and instead listening to Jesus words alone, to be saved. But they insinuate they lived thanks to an earthly organization. How deceptive.
And then the paragraphs about how similar first century was to now. Well really, now? Where's all the anointed today and how un-similar is the good news today? Where was the headquarters? Who was "governor" over their brothers?
It was hard to stomach. The word organization is littered throughout the magazine as never before, and I asked my wife to do a word search in the bible on the word organization. ZERO!!!!!!
Their article is wishful make belief. It's a summation of indoctrination. As I am thinking, millions will walk out that study with the firm resolve to be loyal to the organization as if the org. Is Christ itself.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-02-20 09:34:35

  Want some real fun with numbers?
  We have in order of numerical priority:
  May 2014 Watchtower issue
  Jehovah = 129
  God = 120
  Organization = 55
  Jesus = 47
  Christ = 33
  Lord = 1
  Compare that now with this:
  Bible Book of Acts
  God = 197
  Jehovah = 78 (conjectural emendations by WT Translation committee)
  Jesus = 71
  Lord = 63
  Christ = 27
  Jehovah = 0 (going by ancient manuscripts)
  Organization = 0
  I chose Acts, because it is a good all-round account being that it is the record of the preaching work over years and in many countries, so it is likely to most closely parallel the usage of each word as a counterpart to today's modern Acts of Jehovah's Witnesses.
  Isn't is interesting that we've managed to give Jehovah top billing even in his own Word and despite his own purpose to exalt his Son?

• Reply by Seeker of Truth on 2014-02-27 22:43:03

  I am so happy to have found this website and this post in particular. I, too, had the exact same experience with the May 2014 WT.
  Ever since the July 2013 WT with the 'new light' was posted, I have been eagerly awaiting follow ups to explain how our new understanding impacts cross references and parallel scriptures. 10 months later, we still have nothing. Yet, we know how to care for our elderly parents.
  Funny that you mention the term "organization" being completely absent from Scripture. I actually just did this same check a week or two ago! I typed "organization" into the search feature in the JW Library app only to find zero results.
  Thank you all for your sincere comments. I cannot tell you how relieved I am to see that I am not the only Witness who sees these things.

Comment by on 2014-02-20 15:05:51

With regard to alex comment about the contents of the meetings and magazines thats what drove me mad in the end .i found it mystifying the way that the brothers just lapped up what was clearly wrong .one brother insisted that the society follow the bible to the letter another said the watchtower was the word of god . What are you supposed to do just stand there and agree. Its tough when we are supposed to be someone who bears witness to the truth .