Midweek Meeting Comments – Mar. 10, 2014

Comment by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-03-10 00:34:23

I wrestled with irritation and sadness today thinking about "the things behind" . My prayer is to to gain Paul's attitude "Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. I'm sure Paul had alot of regrets regarding his misplaced zeal for the Sect of the Jewish faith he belonged to (Pharisee)
Meleti your thoughts( concerning looking forward) are beautiful and comforting. We are being prepared for greater:)
A nice way to kick off this week's studies.....

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-03-10 00:37:11

I especially appreciated your comments about our lifespan being finite. I think sometimes we get so caught up in the "urgency" of the times and how "close" we are to the end of this system of things, that we really don't give enough attention to ourselves, how we act and the things we say; the way we interact with our fellow man every day.
If God's Precious Son Jesus does not even know the day nor hour of our Lord's coming, how can we possibly think we have a clue? Why do we spend so much time obsessing over it? Can't it just be enough to know God's plan without having privvy to the details of when it will come to be? We have to be patient just as Joseph was.
Meleti, I understand about the "real life" that you speak of and I look forward to that; but, as humans, this is the only life we can live at this moment in time. We cannot live in the future, just as we cannot live in the past.
The only way to experience real joy, real peace in our hearts is right now, in this very moment.
I can recall my days "in the truth", learning about love of fellow man, how to cultivate the fruitages of the Holy Spirit, but when did I ever really practice them to all of my brothers and sisters? I went from door to door with the magazines, or publications, but what did I do when I ran into a truly destitute family? Or someone who was chronically sick? Or depressed? I gave them the magazines and gave my little "sermon". I am ashamed to say, I just went on to the next house....and the next.
Now I spend my time trying to find ways to help my neighbors, my fellow man, who are all my brothers and sisters. Does one of my neighbors need something that I can help them with? Is someone lonely and need companionship? Is somebody sick that I can fix them something to eat if I am able to? Is one of my neighbors facing a trip to the doctor they are frightened about, can I offer to go with them to give them comfort? Has one of my neighbors lost someone they love, and can I just sit with them and hold their hand and cry with them? Do I have so many clothes, or shoes that my closet can't hold them all, yet hold onto them rather than donating some of them to a local charity that provides clothes for the needy? Can I give a couple of hours on two Saturday mornings a month to help make sandwiches for the homeless because the soup kitchen is closed on the weekend? Can I sew neckpillows for people in nursing homes or hospitals that are much more comfortable then regular pillows when you spend a lot of time in bed? Can I go spend a few hours with a neighbor in the hospital who has no family? Can I be patient and just listen to someone struggling with emotional difficulties as they try to put their thoughts into words?
It doesn't have to be grandiose, often it is the smallest of things that mean the most to people. Sometimes a smile, a hug or even saying "hello" can be the only bright spot in someones whole day.
If I can give that, why would I with hold it without regard to who it was?
James words speak to my heart James 2:14-20 "Dear brothers, what's the use of saying that you have faith and are Christians if you aren't proving it by helping others? Will that kind of faith save anyone? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?"
Matthew 25:34-46 (NIV) “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
I can honestly say I am much happier and satisfied helping real people, than I ever was in the door to door ministry. I am not working to fill out a report to the Organization, nor out of guilt. I am not perfect by any means, I just try to grow my love of my fellow man every day. I am still ministering to those around me by demonstrating the true power of God's love. I don't do anything out of a hope of a reward. Being loving and kind to someone is reward enough for me.
Maybe it's because I live in the Bible Belt of the US, but my activity is not that unusual from anyone else. I am inspired by people "of the world" doing good and kind deeds every day for their fellow man, some at great sacrafice to themselves.
I don't think that Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole are even aware of sincere, decent people reaching out of the goodness in their hearts to help their fellow man, while trusting in Jesus. How arrogant and foolish I would be to condemn them to destruction at God's hands....simply because they are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses and they don't go out in field service.
I agree Meleti, it has taken my whole life experience, including being one of Jehovah's Witnesses for a majority of my life to get me to where I am today, so really how can I regret any of it....if it brought me here right now?

• Reply by menrov on 2014-03-10 05:46:26

  IAACG2, (haha, nice acronym now...), I agree with your views. Although James 2 might be referring to the brothers and sisters in the congregation, Jesus showed that compassion and to love your neighbour goes beyond the congregation. It is about the people that live around us. For years I did not really had an appreciation for all these charity organisations and people that go door to door to collect money for health research for example (in the Netherlands). To my surprise, some of the JW's believed that you should not gve money as it is a "wordly" organisation and soon Jehovah would start armageddon.
  I have fortunately changed my views. I am happy there are people, often low paid staff or volunteers, that spend, no better, dedicate most of their time, money and energy to help the weak, poor, lonely, sick, suffering, needy, oppressed, abused or depressed people, young and old, around us Happy to support health research as I might have to make use of it. If I look at myself, I hardly do anything to help these groups of people other then "selling" a magazine or showing them a better future without actually providing support now.
  At the same time, realizing all that, makes me feel, well....not very well yet. But that was to be expected.But, little by little progressing....

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-03-10 08:13:24

  Thank you for sharing this with us, imacountrygirl2. For years we've been subtly discouraged from contributing our time and energy to charities. For example this point from the Kingdom Ministry:
  *** km 12/03 p. 5 Theocratic Ministry School Review ***
  How does Paul’s letter to Philemon show that a Christian’s commission is to help individuals become Christians, not to promote social reform? (Philem. 12)
  The idea being promoted is that if we do charitable works we are trying to fix things ourselves and running ahead of Jehovah's heavenly organization since he will fix all things in his own time and his own way.
  The reason goes, if you want to donate money to a charity, why not the Organization where it will be put to the best use? If the brothers see you working for a charity, helping the poor, they will think (and likely tell you) that it is a temporary fix but God's kingdom is the permanent fix and by taking time for the poor, you are stealing time from your dedicated service to preach from door to door.
  This reasoning is flawed, of course, and worse, it is unscriptural, as you and others have shown through your comments. We are totally missing the point of charitable works which is to imitate the Christ and by doing so set an example others will see and be drawn to.
  However, most JWs buy into this teaching because it comforts them (tickles their ears) because it relieves them of the responsibility to care for others, without feeling bad about it.

  • Reply by kev c on 2014-03-10 09:53:31

    I find this whole topic sickening. It doesn't sound like the good Samaritan to me my son was sending money to help a child in South America and i was told he was misguided .Really if so why did Jesus bothering healing people was it just because he wanted to prove he was the messiah or was it because he had compassion for people .Could you imagine the good Samaritan saying to the injured Jew oh don't worry god's kingdoms coming you know It wont make much difference if i help now . Well it does it matters to that person and it can make the difference of whether that person lives or dies, and here's me thinking we are Supposed to be loving on deeds not just words kev

  • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-03-10 10:07:44

    It is so interesting how we are JW's from all over the world and understand the implications or "principles" that the GB are trying to get across in articles such as the one you have cited. (we read between the lines)If we were to volunteer in any capacity other than FS that is exactly how it would be viewed by others. I have been told that repeatedly by others over the years whenever Ive mentioned it.
    Our Lord did not have that view. He was very charitable, healing the sick and feeding the hungry. Yet, he was primarily known as a teacher not a healer. Preaching work and Charitable works are not the same thing. Jesus did both.
    There are definitely scam artists out there. But to use that as a reason not to donate to charities is lame.As previously discussed the WTBS are not transparent with our donations at all. We really don't have any idea how the money is being spent to "legally establish the good news", lawsuits etc.
    The WTBS could set up a charity, food/clothing drives, feed the hungry etc.to help others in need so that we (JW's) won't have the fear of being "scammed". We are super organized to accomplish our ministry... Charity is apart of our ministry.

  • Reply by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-03-10 11:05:28

    It's funny how true this is.. The truth about some things is really clear, and it gets really hard to explain things away.
    In my old hall we had this girl who wanted to go to Africa to help orphans. I'm sure many didn't think it wise.. But I was very impressed with what she did. I remember being really annoyed when talks were giving laughing w other Christian denominations for doing charity or explaining us that our commission is to preach and not a social charity because the end is so close.
    Where do we get the right to say that to preach is MORE IMPORTANT then to help others? Aren't both commandments from our Lord? The bible even calls it the form of worship that is ACCEPTABLE to Jehovah, yet the FDS somehow cautions against it or at least doesn't advocate it. How does that make them FAITHFUL?

    • Reply by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-03-10 17:51:51

      I do caution about giving money to charities...unless you vet them thoroughly. Some charities use too much of the money on "overhead" expenses and not enough on actually helping people. There are many scams being used to bilk people out of money. As for me, I'd rather give money to a person I know who is in financial need, as my funds allow. Or buy a few groceries for them. Or share some of my groceries. That way I know 100% of the money will be used by the actual person who needs it.
      I am not advocating sending money to charities, but rather taking it upon myself, as my situation and circumstances allow me, to push up my sleeves and go in and volunteer to help physically where and when I am able to.
      One thing I have found amazing, is that a good many of the volunteers I have met and worked with, are of limited means. Many live on the Social Security benefits they receive. Something in their hearts makes them want to give back to others who have even less than they do. Then there are others with plenty of financial means, that volunteer because they feel a higher calling to help other people. There are many different reasons people volunteer.
      A lot of volunteers would admit that the reason they work so hard for others, is selfish. It makes you feel really good about yourself. I always get more back, than I ever give. The world might consider me poor, but I consider myself as the richest person I know. I have everything I need and am satisfied with what I have. Because I have loved, I have received back love, many times over.
      Studies have shown that people who volunteer, live longer and generally are happier and healthier, physically and mentally than most. When you are helping others, and you see the gratitude in someones eyes, you know you have made a difference, it makes your heart soar like a bird right up into heaven.
      When I was younger and raising my family, I didn't have time to do much of helping others. When I retired several years ago, I was drawn into volunteering. After I started, I realized how many people are in need of all kinds of help. It is as though when I was "in the truth" I was not even aware of just how much suffering was going on right under my nose and that it wasn't my job to help. As I've gotten away from the control of the organization, I realized it is my job to help. In fact, that's exactly what Jesus wants us to do...love our neighbor. My help used to be in word only, now it is in words and deeds.
      Please don't feel badly over what you have or have not done. Everyone's life and circumstances are different. Since we are here, we all want accurate knowledge, but with that comes responsibility for the things we learn. You couldn't do what you didn't know to do.

Comment by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-03-10 10:31:59

I'm very interested in how this talk from the reasoning book will be developed. We have reviewed this information dozens of times throughout my life in the "truth". However, it is the first time we have reviewed this topic since my "awakening":
"Who, then, are “the rest of the dead”? They are all those of mankind who died as a result of Adamic sin and those who, though survivors of the great tribulation or those who may be born during the Millennium, need to be relieved of the death-dealing effects of such sin.—Compare Ephesians 2:1.
In what sense do they not “come to life” until the end of the thousand years? This does not mean their resurrection. This ‘coming to life’ involves much more than merely existing as humans. It means attaining to human perfection, free from all effects of Adamic sin. Notice that the reference to this in Re 20 verse 5 occurs immediately after the preceding verse says that those who will be in heaven “came to life.” In their case it means life free from all effects of sin; they are even specially favored with immortality. (1 Cor. 15:54) For “the rest of the dead,” then, it must mean the fullness of life in human perfection."
The resurrection for the" rest of the dead"following the first resurrection is commonly referred to as the "second" ressurection. We say , in part, that the "rest of the dead" are all those who died (literally). John says that they are raised once the thousand years has ended. We say that John means that a" spiritual "resurrection will occur for all those literally dead (we somehow throw in great tribulation survivors in the mix). If we cannot take John's words at face value...then from scripture when are " the rest of dead" literally raised? Is John using symbolic language here? I don't think so. First resurrection =literal restoration of life-- Second resurrection = spiritual restoration of life, literal restoration of life - unknown?
I used to skip over this subject because I thought it was complex. However, it seems to be only complex when you attempt to get the GB's doctrine to fit.

• Reply by menrov on 2014-03-10 10:53:02

  Indeed interesting topic. My wife did last week's topic and as you can imagine, I disagreed with the information / statements she used (she ad to use Insight / reasoning book).
  Anyway, let's have a look at the verses mentioned, rev. 20:4-6 (NET):
  4 Then I saw thrones and seated on them were those who had been given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. These had not worshiped the beast or his image and had refused to receive his mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who takes part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years
  I read two groups, one group sitting on the thrones and allowed to judge. The other group, souls, are the people that have died while giving testimony and have refused the mark of the beast. Question is, where are these SOULS? In heaven?
  John then says: THEY CAME TO LIFE..... etc. Question is, was he referring to the group on the thrones or the souls. Or both? If both, then they are all in heaven.
  Sounds strange may be but consider verse 8:
  8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth.
  Now, John i talking about nations, that Satan tries to deceive after the 1000 years.
  Who are these nations?
  As said, interesting topic.

  • Reply by menrov on 2014-03-10 11:58:41

    It just occurred to me that John uses a rather strange word for the second group: SOULS. I presume that John means spiritual, not physical, as flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly kingdom. Any views?

  • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-03-10 12:07:26

    I believe he was referring to both . I currently believe "the souls" are those who are executed by the wild beast during the Great tribulation. ( There will be survivors .John sees a "great crowd" of people coming out of the tribulation)

    • Reply by menrov on 2014-03-10 12:22:26

      Do you believe these SOULS are the annointed ones? Or all christians for which that given description fits?

      • Reply by GodsWordisTruth on 2014-03-10 13:13:39

        In short I believe the 144,000 and the Great crowd are the heavenly group .(all Christians)
        They are both depicted in heaven.
        I am not sure if the 144,000 are a subset of the GC, or they are the GC from different point of view or temporal view.( or vice versa). John doesn't say.
        My thoughts regarding them are here http://meletivivlon.com/2014/02/09/midweek-meeting-comments-feb-10-2014/#comment-8494 and can be found throughout this thread.

Comment by on 2014-03-10 20:29:37

Jesus instructions as to how to "overcome objections:"
Matt. 10: 5
 These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·mar′i·tan city; 6 but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.’ 8 Cure the sick, raise up the dead, make lepers clean, expel demons. You received free, give free.
9 Do not acquire gold or silver or copper for your money belts, 10 or a food pouch for the trip, or two garments, or sandals, or a staff, for the worker deserves his food. 11 “Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave.
12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you.
Comment: Note the priorities of verse 8!