Congregation Book Study:
Chapter 5, par. 1-8
This provides just a glimpse of Jehovah’s awesome power. Imagine how big a tennis ball appears to the naked eye when seen across the length of a football field. Now imagine a piece of the sky that small. A 24-millionth of the observable sky. Now imagine peering into what appears to be the empty space of that tiny segment of sky and seeing this picture? Except for a few foreground stars, every dot in it is a galaxy!
Here’s a video explaining the various Hubble Deep Field projects. I think we should rename the telescope. I think we should call it “The Humbling Telescope”.
Theocratic Ministry School
Bible Reading: Exodus 1-6
No. 1 Exodus 2:1-14
No. 2 Christ’s Return Is Invisible—rs p. 341 par. 3-p. 342 par. 2
Obviously we have a strong vested interest in preserving the idea of an invisible return because we believe it already happened, 100 years ago this coming October in point of fact. The title of this talk is misleading, because the source material doesn’t really argue against a visible return, only against Christ becoming human again. The title should be “Christ will not return as a human being”, because that is the only point we are making.
We cannot argue that he can’t come back looking like a human being, because he’s already done that. His disciples saw him in human form on various occasions after his resurrection. If he chooses to return in a fleshly body in the future, who’s to say he can’t? There is nothing in the cited “proof texts” from the talk’s reference material showing this to be unscriptural.
Assuming a body to appear to humans doesn’t mean becoming a human. The angels that appeared to Abraham in the days of Sodom’s destruction didn’t become humans, but merely assumed a temporary fleshly body.
So why doesn’t the Reasoning book make that point. Why doesn’t it quote these additional scriptures and then state that while Christ will never take on human life again, he may, if he wishes, manifest himself in human form for a time? The reason it ignores those inconvenient texts is that this week’s talk is to prepare the way for next week’s topic where we try to show that Christ comes back invisibly in every sense of the word.
Stay tuned.
No. 3 Abiram—Opposing God-Appointed Authority Is Tantamount to Opposing Jehovah—it-1 p. 25, Abiram No. 1
How can we argue that “opposing God-appointed authority is tantamount to opposing Jehovah”? We can’t. The operable phrase is “God-appointed”. Moses, against whom Abiram rebelled, was definitely God-appointed. I’ll tell you all here and now that if a man, or even a committee of seven men, appears on the scene, takes a staff, and divides the waters of the Hudson River, or better yet, turns it to blood, well, I’d be mighty inclined to treat him or them as “God-appointed”.
However, if these same individuals just claim to be God-appointed, well, I think I would deserve a little more to go on, don’t you? After all, doesn’t the Pope claim to be God-appointed? How would we, as Jehovah’s Witnesses, go about proving to a devout Catholic that the Pope isn’t appointed by God? We’d probably start with the Bible and show that many of the teachings of the Catholic Church are not Scriptural. Then we’d argue that no one can be appointed (or anointed—same difference) by God if he teaches lies. We’d show our Catholic friend that 1 John 2:20 talks about “an anointing from the holy one” and that vs. 21 shows that “no lie originates with the truth.” Then we’d read verse 27 which says “the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie….”
I think we’d all agree that as Witnesses we’d use that line of reasoning to convince anyone, Catholic, Protestant, or Mormon that their leaders are not God-appointed. The problem is that what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. What would we say if they turned that around on us and showed us from scripture that some of our core doctrines are not scriptural?
Service Meeting
10 min: “Make Good Use of Older Magazines”
10 min: Local Needs
10 min: What Do We Learn?
We are to consider how Matthew 28:20 and 2 Timothy 4:17 are to help us in the ministry. Here’s a little project for everyone—myself included. When the speaker gets to 2 Timothy 4:17 and reads “But the Lord stood near me…”, take note of how he applies this. This verse and the next (“The Lord will rescue me from every wicked word and will save me for his heavenly Kingdom.”) are very clearly speaking about Jesus. However, how many of those taking this part, or commenting as part of the discussion, will refer to Jesus instead of Jehovah when applying this to our day. I would be very surprised if Jesus is even mentioned. So please, take note and then comment your findings below.
Archived Comments
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Comment by menrov on 2014-03-31 13:07:09
will refer to Jesus instead of Jehovah when applying this to our day. I would be very surprised if Jesus is even mentioned
I guess you mean : ....refer to Jehovah instead of Jesus.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-03-31 14:12:43
Actually, it works both ways, but I see your point. :)
Comment by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-03-31 13:22:59
Re: refer to Jesus instead of Jehovah - I think Meleti's point is the same whichever way you read it.
My thought was whether, if a man, or even a committee of seven men, appears on the scene, takes a staff, and divides the waters of the Hudson River, or turns it to blood, should we be inclined to treat him or them as “God-appointed”?
(Revelation 13:13, 14) "And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind. It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast"Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-03-31 14:10:39
Okay, fire from heaven is out. Besides, with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we've been there and done that. But come on, splitting the Hudson river with just a wooden staff would be, like, way cool man.
Seriously, I've often wondered about the reality of Mat. 24:24 in this context.Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-04-01 08:41:16
I guess what it boils down to is not just the "great signs" themselves, but how we respond to them.
To take a simple example consider the Warwick project. Those taking the lead have asked the faithful to view it as "a great sign". They have drawn attention in their promotional material to the theory that such a project could not be taking place without Jehovah's spirit.
That is a big claim, but is that a reasonable conclusion to draw from a simple building project, even if it is grand in scale? Any rational person would look at this and say that it is one of millions of big construction projects undertaken by corporations around the world. The notable difference in this one is the amount of free-labor involved. But is it reasonable to say it could only happen with God's spirit thus turning it into "a great sign" of his backing.
For a certainty many are buying into that line of thinking.Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-04-01 09:51:09
Apollos-
Your comment is spot on in view of the video that was released a few days ago.
Reply by on 2014-04-01 12:07:50
If they are saying that about the warwick project then all common sense has gone out of the window .if we say that we would have to say that the pyramids were an even greater sign that they had gods backing but who would admit that ..kev
Comment by Nick O. on 2014-03-31 16:33:36
No doubt (aside from the regular habit that has been nurtured in ignoring Christ) the congregations being confused as the the identity of the Lord in 2 Tim 4:17 will be caused by inconsistent references they find when doing research on the subject:
w11 1/15 pp. 26-30 (Lord = Jehovah)
15 The apostle Paul endured many life-threatening adversities for the sake of his faith. (2 Cor. 11:23-28) How did he maintain balance and emotional stability under those trying circumstances? By prayerful reliance on Jehovah. During the time of testing that apparently culminated in his martyrdom, Paul wrote: “The Lord stood near me and infused power into me, that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished and all the nations might hear it; and I was delivered from the lion’s mouth.”
w05 7/1 pp. 21-27 - (Lord=Jehovah)
Still, in obedience to God, true Christians in such lands continue preaching the Kingdom good news. (Amos 3:8; Acts 5:29; 1 Peter 2:21) What enables them, as well as all other Witnesses worldwide, to do so? Jehovah empowers them by means of his holy spirit.—Zechariah 4:6; Ephesians 3:16; 2 Timothy 4:17.
wt chap. 19 pp. 167-174 (Worship the Only True God - Book) (Lord=Jesus)
Paul found the insolent—even violent—treatment by opposers unpleasant, he “mustered up boldness by means of our God” to keep on preaching. He said: “The Lord stood near me and infused power into me, that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished.” (1 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:17) The Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus, continues to provide the power we need to do the work he foretold for our day.—Mark 13:10.
g01 7/22 pp. 13-15 (Lord=Jehovah)
Yes, God helped by strengthening his people spiritually and morally—giving them the wisdom and knowledge to make wise decisions. When Christians were in a difficult situation, God did not necessarily remove the trial. Rather, he provided them with “the power beyond what is normal” so that they could endure it!—2 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Timothy 4:17.
it-2 pp. 667-671 (Subject: Prayer) (Lord = Jehovah??)
But undoubtedly the most frequent answer was not so easily discernible, since it related to giving moral strength and enlightenment, enabling the person to hold to a righteous course and carry out divinely assigned work. (2Ti 4:17)
it-2 pp. 1106-1108 (Subject: Timothy, Letters to) (Lord = Jesus)
No one took his side in his first defense; nevertheless, Paul was strengthened by the Lord Jesus Christ; he is confident that the Lord will save him for His heavenly Kingdom (4:16-18)Reply by Nick O. on 2014-03-31 16:38:34
wt chap. 19 pp. 167-174 (Worship the Only True God – Book) (Lord=Unclear)
Paul found the insolent—even violent—treatment by opposers unpleasant, he “mustered up boldness by means of our God” to keep on preaching. He said: “The Lord stood near me and infused power into me, that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished.” (1 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:17) The Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus, continues to provide the power we need to do the work he foretold for our day.—Mark 13:10.
Actually this reference is unclear as 2 Tim 4:17 is piggybacked onto 1 Thessalonians 2:2 referring to God's help. Then the next sentence identifies Jesus providing power.
Comment by on 2014-03-31 17:30:04
I get your point meleti and again agree with you .Can i really be compared to abiram for rejecting the authority of these men .When ive seen no supernatural evidence that god is backing them .especially when some things they say seem to run against gods words in the bible. Although i do believe that many in the future will be deceived by supernatural events .So it would be no guarantee of gods backing but then we would have to test the spirit to see wether it originated with god .But to make a claim like we are gods spokesman one would think there would be an awful lot of evidence to support that claim .kev
Comment by Bobcat on 2014-03-31 20:07:45
No. 3 Abiram—Opposing God-Appointed Authority Is Tantamount to Opposing Jehovah—it-1 p. 25, Abiram No. 1
The title for this is a little . . . misleading. That might not be the word I'm looking for. Consider these situations:
Bathsheba (2 Sam. 11:1-4) Would she have been 'opposing Jehovah' if she had resisted the God appointed David? In fact, that is a possibility. The account does not say how she reacted to David's immoral overture.
Uriah (Bathsheba's husband, 2 Sam. 11:5-11) Refused to follow David's order to go back to his own house. Uriah had the Law on his side, but disobeyed the God appointed David.
Joab (1 Chron. 21:1-7) Didn't finish the unlawful census that the God-appointed David ordered because he found it "detestable."
Paul (Galatians 2:11-14) "Resisted" the God-appointed (via Jesus) Apostle Peter face-to-face."
Christians that John wrote to (3 John 9, 10) Some of these resisted Diotrephes efforts. I'm thinking Diotrephes was an elder, seeing how he had the ability to have some of these opposers "thrown out of the congregation."
Were any of these "opposing Jehovah" by their actions?Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-03-31 20:22:04
Very good points Bobcat!
It's unfortunate that those balanced points will not be discussed in the talk this week. I am grateful that we can discuss the meeting here before the cracking off the spiritual whip at the meeting. God has given authority in the absolute sense to His Son. (Matthew 28:18) Whenever God appoints imperfect men with authority it is always relative. .Reply by menrov on 2014-04-01 08:16:11
I am always surprised to read or hear statements like "We are appointed by Jehovah to be His channels" etc bla bla..
If already the verses in Mt 24:45-47 are to be taken as a prophecy , then it is Jesus (the master) who appoints and that slave remains as slave under Jesus.
Why would God need another channel when He already has His Son, the WORD, that has already proven His reliability and about whom God has already expressed many times that His Son has been approved and that we should listen to Him.
I always take much comfort from the fact that both Jehovah and Jesus have always shown that they are very approachable and that when we "sin" or "disobey", they are always very willing to forgive, always find a reason to forgive (unless it is a sin that brings death, but still not clear what sin that is).
Reply by anderestimme on 2014-04-01 10:55:59
Am I right in saying that the only guy in the NT that throws people out of the congregation is Diotrephes? If so, that certainly is food for thought.
Comment by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-04-01 12:39:32
I never had a problem with people taking the lead.
We need someone taking the lead. If the FDS was leading us quietly helping and providing for us but never taking credit or honor, I would praise them for their hard work.
I started getting serious issues with them when the personal glorification started. Every meeting there is someone praying to thank them, someone commenting about them, some articles are about them, etc etc.
If they are a proverbial Moses, they are in BIG danger of being like him in that he said: "Listen now, you rebels; shall we bring forth water for you out of this rock?" 11Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came forth abundantly, and the congregation and their beasts drank.
To have the audacity to orchestrate everyone to sing songs about you (they write the songs, they make us sing those songs) is sooo full of hubris I don't even know where to begin. To write articles which glorify men and then make us study them, the same thing.. I have no problem with them being recognized if it comes out of a true appreciation and a heart's desire. I have a big problem with self glorification.Reply by Dorcas on 2014-04-01 16:14:01
Very well put. I agree with you on every level. The songs are painful to sing. The self-glorification is too much. In all my decades as a Witness, I've never heard the "faithful and discreet slave" and the "governing body" mentioned so often in prayer and in comments.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-04-01 23:48:09
It seems that praising gb for the hard work they do is increasingly prevailing among Jw, contrary to the word of Jesus. In the same way, when you have done everything required of you, you should say, ‘We servants deserve no special praise. We have only done our duty.'"
Luk17:10.Reply by Bobcat on 2014-04-02 06:38:14
Search4Truth:
The context of Luke 17:10 is really relevant:
(Luke 17:1-10) . . .Then he said to his disciples: . . . 5 Now the apostles said to the Lord: “Give us more faith.” 6 Then the Lord said: . . . 10 Likewise, when you have done all the things assigned to you, say: ‘We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.’”
Verse 10 in context was specifically spoken to the apostles. Imagine what happen if you started referring to the GB as "the good-for-nothing slave" class! It would be about as scriptural as saying "faithful slave" class. Of course, you might not be allowed to say it for very long
Comment by Anjinsan on 2014-04-04 08:33:13
Hello Meleti,
Three comments where made concerning 2nd Tim: 4: 17 . And except for mine that was the second, the other two felt the lord in that context is Jehovah. No qualms really because Jehovah is the head of Jesus Christ.
But in a case like this the mention of our lord Jesus Christ would have given credit to the one that the Almighty God bestowed all authority in heaven and on earth.
Received the latest study article of the WT. The fist study article was about Jesus Christ. Looking forward to it.
Please keep up the constructive criticism with no bitterness as much as an imperfect human can. Some one mentioned a better way forward, yours and the insight of others on topics either in the Watchtower or other meeting parts is a way forward, especially when a scriptural point of view is brought to the fore. On this site some one mentioned bible hub. its a beautiful website. Barnes commentary on the 144 thousand made more sense to my power of reason. Never knew such spiritual gems can be found on the internet. I liked your sense of sincerity some where on the blog that it can be sort of depressing looking for what next should one do. To be frank i am much more at ease than I had ever being going exclusive as a JW.
A spiritual journey would be much more appealing with an open mind, did our dear beloved John not say, test every thing but make sure of what is true. For me the Bible is the standard of what is true then, my power of reason.
Comment by Samaritan Woman on 2014-04-04 12:52:02
We have or C.O visit this week and what he said was far more ludicrious than the schedule for this meeting. I go to a upper middle class congregation and there are times when people miss becuase of work or school. The first part of his talk was a sales pitch that would make a time-share scam seem like a girl scout selling cookies.
So meeting attendance is down midweek and he used Hebrews 10:24,25 to counsel the congregation.He also indicated that it is the responsibility of all in the congregattion to "encourage " those who miss because " we love them and don't want them to die at Armageddon.Meeting attendance is a requirement for salvation and to not attend shows a lack of faith and trust in Jehovah" I could barly keep my disgust contained, none of these statements have any basis in reality or the Bible.
The icing on this disgusting cake was that when theocratic adjustment come from Jehovah," dont ask, just obey" ( he repeated this 3 times) all the while touting the new research tools and that we have to many parties. I no longer feel guilty for missing what my husband calls " Holy Week" because there is no encourgement for real bible study or meditation. The JW version of bible study is really a study of the literature.
I used to be able to sit through the meetings and focus on the positives of what was being discusses but it it getting harder and harder to do that. I dread what Sunday will bring in the Watchtower and his subsequent talks.Reply by imjustasking on 2014-04-04 14:05:56
I can't go to the meetings any longer.
They disgust me.
I have literally felt physically sick and have nearly thrown up, after leaving. That is the honest truth.
I just can't take it any longer.Reply by D on 2014-04-04 14:30:55
While I haven't been on the verge of "losing my lunch" at meeting, I do often find myself with either a reaction of puzzlement, laugher and sometimes frustration with what I hear and see.
If I had experienced what Samartian Woman desribed above I think my reaction would have moved closer to anger, as I feel that we are moving away from the overall message of having love for one another as we try to browbeat everyone into submission.
On a positive note, I'm grateful that the people at my hall are generally all very pleasant and nobody beats me up over my "subpar" meeting and service attendance. In years past I would get the "where were you?" and "is everything OK?" which made me want to be there less so that I didn't have to deal with it, but in general I do feel people are just happy to see me when I'm there which I think is the way it should be.
Keep fighting the "fine fight of faith" and try not to allow your negative emotions to overwhelm you.Reply by Samaritan Woman on 2014-04-04 22:08:58
This hardline only surfaces when the circuit overseer visits. Thank goodness for small miracles.
Comment by Nick O. on 2014-04-04 16:47:23
Reporting from my congregation on 2 Tim 4:17:
The conductor leading the discussion was accurate in identifying the "Lord" as Jesus Christ, nicely tying in Jesus promise in the scripture considered in Matthew. I did notice however, all comments only mentioned Jehovah.
While certainly Jehovah is the ultimate source of all power, he has entrusted to his Son 'all authority'. It is unfortunate that we continue to brush that authority aside by rarely speaking of it in the congregation.