Midweek Meeting Comments – Apr. 7, 2014

Comment by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-04-08 16:55:04

"And what about “the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief”. That is an inconvenient part of the puzzle, isn’t it? How does the Reasoning book deal with that? The way we always do when there is a part of Scripture the directly contradicts our teaching. We just ignore it, hoping that everyone else will not notice the lapse."
"During the great tribulation, after all organized false religion has been destroyed, former adherents will run for cover but will find no secure place to hide. (Luke 23:30; Rev. 6:15-17) Then, realizing that there is no escape from destruction, they will weep in desperation and ‘gnash their teeth’ in anger. As Jesus foretells in his prophecy about the great tribulation, at that dark moment, they “will beat themselves in lamentation.”*—Matt. 24:30; Rev. 1:7." (w13 07/15, p. 13, par. 14)
Meleti, I do not believe our understanding of the "tribes of the earth beating themselves in lamentation" is linked to 1914 any longer. This, too, calls for a revised understanding of the invisibility of Jesus' return as presented in the Reasoning book.

• Reply by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-04-08 16:56:58

  I have trouble understanding why we still continue to teach the Organization's previous interpretations during our midweek meetings.

  • Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-04-08 18:29:14

    Well according to Paragraph 7 of last week's WT, we do still continue to teach our previous interpretations! It's the rest of the world that isn't 'getting it!':
    "With so much evidence that God’s Kingdom is already established in heaven, why do the majority of people not accept what this means? Why are they not able to connect the dots, so to speak, between the state of the world and specific Bible prophecies that God’s people have long been publicizing? Could it be that most people are focusing attention on just what they can see with their eyes?"

    • Reply by Bobcat on 2014-04-09 11:37:30

      The Society's reasoning is centuries late. They are saying that people should have started repenting after the Kingdom was established. That much is correct. But they are saying it was established in 1914.
      Paul, on the other hand, saw the need for all of mankind to repent starting from the time Jesus was resurrected. 1914 is just another date that has passed while we await the "day on which [God] purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness."
      (Acts 17:30, 31) . . .True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. 31 Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.. . .

Comment by InNeedOfGrace on 2014-04-08 17:25:10

Matthew 23:29 "For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
The society is saying that this prophecy will not come true in effect. How can the Jews who rejected Jesus look on him who they have pierced if he comes invisible?
As a result it comes down to calling God a liar somehow. He prophetically uttered that they WILL LOOK, THEY WILL SEE HIM.

Comment by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-04-08 17:31:17

"I’m curious how the magic practicing priests were able to duplicate the first three plagues. Has anyone done any research on that they’d like to share?"
Meleti, I believe this belongs under the Bible Reading section.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-04-08 18:40:18

  Quite right. I just corrected it. Thank you.

• Reply by Bobcat on 2014-04-09 11:48:46

  Assuming that Satan is not able to pass on the life force, with the application of energy available to him, he may have been able to alter the composition of the rods so as to make them pliable like the body of a snake and invisibly move them in a manner resembling a snake. (A human can apply energy to a stick, via a whittling knife, and produce an object resembling a snake. I take it an angel can apply energy in a much more sophisticated manner.)
  Needless to say, the account leaves out a lot of detail.

  • Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-04-10 09:17:21

    Demons have materialized in human body form ( Genesis 6:2)and inhabited the bodies of others.( demon possession Matt 8:31 )
    Acts 8:9
    “A man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years, amazing the people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great. 10 Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as “the Great One—the Power of God.”
    Reve 13:14
    “And with all the miracles he was allowed to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived all the people who belong to this world. He ordered the people to make a great statue of the first beast, who was fatally wounded and then came back to life”
    Revelation 16:4
    “They are demonic spirits who work miracles and go out to all the rulers of the world to gather them for battle against the Lord on that great judgment day of God the Almighty.”
    If Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in a instant that would be powerful .
    If you compare these scriptures with what took place in Exodus , the magic practicing priests could have duplicated Moses’ miracles with no problem. Or maybe they were tricks or an illusions?

Comment by on 2014-04-08 19:54:12

The magic practicing priests could not fight against the plagues, they could only duplicate a few of them.
It appears that Jehovah allowed this. It is a good lesson for all of us: just because a false prophet gives a sign we should not believe him.
Satan is quite powerful. God allowed his ministers to do their thing, so to speak, because it suited God's purposes.
Daytona.

• Reply by JaeDub on 2014-04-09 17:22:16

  Good Comment

• Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-04-10 15:25:16

  The underlying truth is that even first century Christians were vulnerable to Satan's intrusive efforts, and that despite being the only inspired source we have as a reference point today. Unfortunately, because we (JW's) built our religion with such solid, impervious walls, it has become an even greater invitation for the devil's penetrating influence.
  It's why I say again and again, our religion can only be as strong and true as we have personally built, which was the whole point of Jesus parable of Matthew 7:24-27.

Comment by on 2014-04-08 21:11:01

Meleti,
"When he comes, all the nations will see him—whether it be literally or in the sense of perceiving his presence, the result will be the same. There will be no doubt to anyone on earth that he has returned, and the effect will be devastating on for all those who opposed him."
Do you believe you will see Christ when he returns?
Daytona

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-04-08 23:49:13

  Isn't that implied by the excerpt you quoted?

  • Reply by on 2014-04-09 08:15:23

    I should have put it more directly. I was actually asking do you believe you will see Jesus when he returns with your own eyes? I do.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-04-09 08:40:11

      My personal belief is that the fulfillment of "every eye will see him" is literal in the sense that there will be visible manifestations of his presence, things which are undeniable to the world at large.

Comment by Bro charles lokulenge emma on 2014-04-09 00:20:31

Gdorning, brother's n sister in organzation of of jehovah,may u assist me with the idea found in the insight -1 page 26.

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-04-09 03:10:47

"I confess that I haven’t prepared for meetings for decades. Since I was a boy, I would pass the time at them dreaming of other things."
Meleti.....I am shocked! Just SHOCKED!!!
Since you are confessing, I'll admit that I hardly ever prepared either. I very seldom heard anyone put an answer to the Watchtower questions in their own words. Maybe reword it a bit. We were spoon fed, an open book test.
Since we had a much smaller group at the weekly book study, I always felt compelled to answer, when the poor brother would ask a question...and NOBODY raised their hands. I felt sorry for him searching everywhere for a raised hand with that deer in the headlight expression, (not to mention a secret teen-age crush on him). With a much larger group at the Watchtower, Ministry School and Service meetings, someone would always raise their hands.
As I look back on it, the format was always the same: here's what we say, here's our question and here is the only answer we want to hear. There is no other choice for an answer. Maybe that simple formula, was the hook they used. Maybe it's a mind control technique.
Later when I married and had my son, it was fun to pick out a couple of easy answers for him, practice a few times....and then when he raised his little hand, he would get called on. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but that was the highlight of the meeting for me. He was so proud of himself.
I apologize to anyone who may be offended by my negative comment, it's just simply that I am a human being.

• Reply by on 2014-04-09 09:17:07

  It's hard to study in advance for the meetings. There's just so many times you can tolerate straw and, not being ruminants, bringing it up a second time after the first sitting at home is well...unpalatable. :)
  The Governing Body seems to think none of us passed the third grade perhaps that's because they've been kept back themselves for so long. They are spiritual third graders teaching almost 8 million people the wonders of spiritual retardation.
  The Kingdom Hall has become a fast food restaurant. The food served is quick and easy but if that's all we eat our spiritual health suffers. It will never be as nutritious or as satisfying as the food Christ himself prepared for us...the Gospels. In the Gospels we don't hear the glories of the Governing Body. In the Gospels we hear the glory of God and the love of Christ.
  Lots of salt (faith and trust in Jehovah) must be served with the GB burger to overcome the bad taste of spiritual putrefaction. I don't like saying these things, it hurts actually, but how long are the friends going to survive on straw before they die off completely? Many of the older ones are being sapped of whatever spiritual strength they had in their youth. Many younger publishers have learned to ride the system and keep their friends...which have become more important to them than their relationship with Jehovah because the GB has put THEMSELVES in God's place!
  Only Jehovah knows how many tens of thousands among the brotherhood are continually praying for God to lead them out of the blind alley the GB has led them into. God will help them, Christ will come, and again, remove the money changers.
  I pray along side them as well.
  Daytona

Comment by on 2014-04-09 10:30:11

Daytona-
I might have taken you to task for such sarcasm and bitterness - but I can't.
Having conducted the "Bible Study" material this week on the marvels of creation and Jehovah's great power and wisdom, I too am embarrassed at this 3rd grade science lesson, so lacking in the level of appreciation that deeper knowledge (like high school level science) might give us.
Even the Job chapters were a mere gloss over. I called on the congregation third-graders to explain it. They did just fine.
--Sad elder

• Reply by on 2014-04-09 22:23:26

  Sad elder,
  Jehovah's Witnesses are a good people, God loving people. Today they suffer more than times past because the mistakes made by former leaders have come to roost.
  The present situation in the congregation is similar to Jesus' day where he could see the sheep mistreated by leaders he called whitewashed graves and hypocrites. What is interesting is that at one point he said with reference to the religious leaders; do as they say but not as they do. In the Synagogues God's word was being taught and this was good but the overbearing weights put upon the people were not from God but from their religious leaders. So Jesus said, do not do as they do, do not put those weights on others, do not be hypocrites.
  If we think about it, when has there ever been a Christian religion that has not gone wrong at one time or another? That has not claimed too much authority or has never produced doctrinal error? None that I can think of.
  So I suppose one could say the Witnesses are in good company right along with every other Christian. It's just that this is OUR religion, our faith and it hurts deeply. One criticism that has been thrown at the Witnesses is that they are always changing, always tweaking this or that. Perhaps that will be to our benefit, perhaps with God's help some at headquarters will see the need for right change, good change. I hope so.
  There are no third graders in the KH. :) Only Christians who are misled by men who appear not to see the stones, the boulders, they put in our way.
  With you, and all here, in prayer tonight.
  Daytona

Comment by JaeDub on 2014-04-09 17:27:11

HAPPY are those conscious of there spiritual food, who is the faithful and discreet slave appointed to serve FOOD at the proper time

Comment by on 2014-04-09 17:52:12

JaeDub-
If your comment is actually a question, you will find the answer here.
If it is just a commentary, you need to work on several issues, not the least of which are accuracy and humility.
If you want to make a positive contribution, learn to write well. It is part of our preaching commission.

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-04-09 18:23:58

  JaeDub,
  I'm not sure who this comment is directed at, but it is important for us to keep our tone pleasant and upbuilding. There are times for stronger language, it is true, so we're not laying down a rule. Just a cautionary note so that all feel free to express themselves.

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-04-09 19:32:59

JaeDub, Not all of us have the same opportunity for education. Some don't have quite the typing skills they wish they had. Not everyone is a good speller. Not everyone expresses themselves well.
My point is that the words we see on here don't show what a person's heart looks like. Or how intelligent a person is. Or how kind and loving they might be.
They are merely words on a screen.
We each have gifts and talents that have nothing to do with education, typing skills, spelling skills or any other arbitrary measure of a person's worth.
We are all the same in our Beloved Jesus eyes. He loves us all the same. None of us is better or worse than anyone else. He gave his life for each one of us, paying the same price for each of us.
If anyone's comment is not clear enough, perhaps we should ask for more information. Are you referring to a scripture? It is easy to get wording mixed up, if you are not looking at the Bible.
Your name implies that you feel Jehovah's Witnesses are being misled. Some of us feel the same way, if that is your intent.
As long as we all respect each other, everyone is free to comment. No doubt we get frustrated with each other and it is not always easy to control our tongues which are small, just like a spark. But a spark can destroy an entire forest. James 3:5

Comment by brendaevans32 on 2014-04-10 08:43:02

Hi everyone
I was wondering the same about the practising people in Egypt. When I got to the part about the boils, I then wondered about them again (being that the boils stopped them from performing such acts of repetition), and I got wondering if their acts had been permitted by Jehovah.
I base this on His rightful thoughts, feelings and regard for those practising in magic. I get the feeling that there is an underlining lesson which Jehovah is teaching throughout the various occurrences that will happen to Pharoah.
In permitting certain acts, just as we get the option today, do we think 'Oh great, I've got magic in my fingers (or something along those lines)' or do we see it as an opportunity to say no to something we know will upset Jehovah.
Is it possible that Pharoah was serving as a great example to everyone else on how one might be treated if they become obstinate or reject Jehovah?
The passages mention that Pharoah's heart was allowed to become obstinate. To become something implies that it is a progressive way to follow - and that rather than thinking 'Hang on, I'm getting it wrong - let me turn round and repent', Pharoah continues, sometimes looking as if he might turn round only to not do so.
How many times, in our everyday lives, do we see something like this going on? I know that these days, many of us are not keeping the many sons of Israel in slavery and keeping them for making bricks to satisfy our personal needs, but taken to today - again we have an opportunity to learn from someone else's mistakes.
It is very, very reassuring to find people like those who contribute and read on here, that we are just happily interested in sharing the message of love and brotherhood which Jehovah shares through his lovely Son.

• Reply by brendaevans32 on 2014-04-10 08:45:14

  Hi again - I just simply celebrated when the boils came. Now just a thought has occurred to me - that Jehovah was very rightly stopping something before it got out of hand with the practisers of magic. I thought it quite cool that they got the boils and that put an end to that one.

Comment by D on 2014-04-10 10:14:35

When reviewing the magazines during the TMS I really enjoyed the article about Thomas Emlyn at the back of the April 2014 WT. I think many people here might liken their situation to his in that he was aware of teachings that conflicted with the Bible.
At the end of the article it says this, which undoubtedly is meaningful to all that contribute here:
---------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT CAN WE LEARN?
Many today back off from taking a stand for what the Scriptures teach. But Emlyn was willing to stand up for Bible truth. He raised the question, “If a man may not profess the most important truths, which he finds clear and evident in the holy Scriptures, to what end should he read and search them?” Emlyn would not compromise the truth.
The example set by Emlyn and others can move us to consider whether we are willing to stand up for the truth in the face of scorn. We too can ask ourselves, ‘Which is more important—the honor and blessing of the community or upholding the truth of God’s Word?'
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I had never thought about the following point in regards to the Trinity; not in the way that he expressed it anyway.
Ephesians 1:3: “Whereas Jesus Christ is commonly styled the Son of God, we never find the Father styled the Father of God, tho he be oft called the Father of our Lord Jesus.”

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-04-10 21:47:09

Bro charles lokulenge emma.....You say you have a question about page 26 from the Volume 1 Insight Into the Scriptures. There are six different entries on that page, which one are you asking about? Can you provide more detail as to what help you need?

Comment by anderestimme on 2014-04-11 13:14:36

10:15 They [the locusts] covered the surface of the entire land, and the land grew dark with them; they devoured all the vegetation of the land and all the fruit of the trees that the hail had left; nothing green was left on the trees or on the vegetation of the field in all the land of Egypt.