Midweek Meeting Comments – May 5, 2014

Comment by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-05-05 19:40:10

Exodus 25:2 - "Tell the people of Israel to take up a contribution for me; from every person whose heart moves him, you are to take up my contribution."
Interesting that this is within the weekly Bible reading on the very night our new donation arrangement letter is scheduled to be read.

• Reply by kianswee on 2014-05-06 11:57:40

  Thanks,KeepOnSeeking,for the enlightenment.Any idea why the sudden lack of indoctrination in this weekend's study article?Perhaps,a connection to the donation thing?Upcoming court cases?Surely there's a motive?

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-06 14:34:11

Perhaps a good motive. Perhaps a true Christian is writing the article this time. I'm convinced there are opposing forces at work at Bethel.

• Reply by on 2014-05-06 15:31:13

  I felt that as well meleti not everyone even on the GB will have the same outlook in jesus day not all even on the sanhedrin had the same attitude .Luke 23 v 50 and 51 . I ve seen the same thing my self first hand while serving as an elder .If that is the case may god bless that brother or brothers .kev

Comment by kianswee on 2014-05-06 20:15:22

Unforunately,whatever good intentions the writer(s) might've had when they were writing this article would soon be overshadowed by higher education & "apostate" articles in June & July editions(check out jwsurvey).In the meantime,I guess we'll just enjoy the present article.

Comment by kianswee on 2014-05-06 20:16:17

Oops!Wrong spelling!Unfortunately.

• Reply by on 2014-05-07 02:58:24

  I wish the watchtower would simply discuss the bible verse by verse starting at matthew 1 after all we are supposed to be christians .We would see some new light shining then . Kev

Comment by on 2014-05-07 03:45:16

Just thinking about your comment about the judeo christian religion .despite the fact that christ freed us from the law they seem to quote it to enforce rules and yet this matter was settled if we want to believe it by the so called governing body of the first century Acts 15 v1 and 28 and 29 . Its the same old battle raging on galatians 1 v 8 what was this other good news that paul described .Galatians 3 shows that they were starting to become judeo christians . Beware for it is for freedom that christ has set us free stand firm then and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery . Galatians 5 v1 kev

Comment by alskadedotter on 2014-05-07 14:17:07

Once again thoroughly enjoyed the comments, Meleti. I too have tired of the repetitive programs at our assemblies, which tend to focus more on what one is not doing and comparing them to those that are. IN the last few years I have come away from the assemblies feeling depressed and unworthy instead of encouraged and happy. Interestingly, of note is the three gatherings in our Bible state "festivals" -- the word we use as festival in Hebrew is actually "celebration" -- so this does not denote the people sitting and listening to elders speaking about things. Also I noticed that in this same venue of the festivals it was the "males" that must appear before God. Your reference to Judeo-Christian religion seems appropriate since this was all laws for the Israelites -- Jesus never mentioned this kind of festival or celebration taking place so many times a year for Christians. The only commandment made that we had to observe was the memorial of his death.. I could not find anything in the Greek scriptures where the Christians gathered specifically during certain times and they all met at one place. If I have missed something I would appreciate someone letting me know.

Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-05-08 08:50:15

It was not until 1952 that Jehovah’s Witnesses started disfellowshiping”.
See the following quote from the 2006 Watchtower.
“Individuals wanting to become part of the Christian congregation must meet certain requirements. Logically, modern-day ridiculers are kept out, even as such ones found no place in Noah’s ark. (2 Peter 3:3-7) Particularly since 1952, Jehovah’s Witnesses have given increased support to an arrangement that helps to protect the congregation—that is, the disfellowshipping of unrepentant sinners. Of course, truly repentant wrongdoers are lovingly helped to ‘make straight paths for their feet.’—Hebrews 12:12, 13; Proverbs 28:13; Galatians 6:1.” – (w06 5/15, Pg. 24, Are You Prepared for Survival?)
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However, from 1952 to before 1981 if you did not like something about the Jehovah’s Witnesses, you could leave and not be shunned by family and friends. But then the shunning policy was tightened up on those who have done nothing wrong, but just no longer want to be a Jehovah’s Witness. You were to be treated as a sinner. You were no longer allowed to leave the religion. Because if you did you, would lose your family and friends because they were told to shun you.
See the following quote from the 1981 Watchtower.
“14 One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation. The apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.”—1 John 2:19.
15 Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organization whose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
16 Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing.” – (w81 9/15, Pg. 23, Par. 14-16, Disfellowshiping—How to View It)
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This change, which has remained in force ever since, makes it virtually impossible for Jehovah's Witnesses to leave the organization without facing punishment if they have believing family members and friends who are still Witnesses.
The only thing you can do is just try and fade away. And even then you are probably going to be shunned to a certain extent and labeled as bad association.
This is oppressive!!
oppressive
: very cruel or unfair
: very unpleasant or uncomfortable
: unreasonably burdensome or severe
: overwhelming or depressing to the spirit or senses

• Reply by on 2014-05-08 10:13:47

  A family member who has 'faded' after prolonged discouragement, moved away, has no contact with any congregation members, has recently been contacted online by an elder asking to "meet with you to assist" and asking for their new address. After repeatedly stating that this was not wanted and that they wished to be left in peace, the elder wrote, " Are you saying that you no longer wish to be known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses?". Thankfully the person recognised the phraseology used and replied, " No, I am not disassociating myself, I simply wish to left alone."
  I despair of this calculated and cynical attempt to officially evict someone from the Organisation, at the same time as we are trying to attract new people to our supposed loving congregation of Christians. The message regarding shunning on the official jw website is so different from the reality and I feel so disillusioned. The only effect of tricking this family member into disassociating themselves would be to try to force the family members in the "truth" to cut off all contact. How unkind. How oppressive. How are we to encourage them to return when this happens. I've been a JW for 50+ years and have never felt so let down with the way things are, but cling to the hope that Jesus will sort things out eventually.

  • Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-05-08 10:43:49

    It’s sad that it has been 33 years since this oppressive change took place, and Jesus has not sorted things out yet.
    And in fact within the last couple of years the Jehovah’s Witness shunning policy has been tightened up even further so that believing Witnesses are banned from even emailing disfellowshipped family members.
    See the following quote from the 2013 Watchtower.
    “Really, what your beloved family member needs to see is your resolute stance to put Jehovah above everything else—including the family bond. So to cope with the situation, be sure to maintain your own spirituality. Do not isolate yourself from your faithful Christian brothers and sisters. (Prov. 18:1) Pour out your feelings to Jehovah in prayer. (Ps. 62:7, 8) Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” – (w13 1/15, Let Nothing Distance You From Jehovah, Page 16)

  • Reply by on 2014-05-12 14:41:58

    Very, very similar experience as Anonymous (posted 5/8 10:13 a.m.) except they actually hit their long distance / decades removed target, resulting in the loss of my only child (and only grandchild, "by extension".)
    Final straw for this long standing, well known publisher.
    I wonder who the next target might be??

• Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-05-10 03:12:40

  *** w81 9/15 p. 23 par. 15 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***
  "Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organization whose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses."
  Now I'm wondering how long will it be before we can re-associate ourselves to the Governing Body for joining the UN in 1992. Then again I guess membership should have its privileges???
  sw

  • Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-05-10 09:09:13

    smolderingwick1 :
    Excellent Point !!
    It's OK for them to becoming part of an organization whose objective is contrary to the Bible, but not us.

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-08 10:58:39

Why would we expect Jesus to sort things out? He hasn't done so with the Catholic Church, the Adventist Church, or any of the other churches of Christendom. Why do we think we are special that way? I'm not being critical, BeenMislead, for others have expressed this same view, including myself not so very long ago.
The Bible does say that he will sort things out, but he only does that once at the very end--the sorting of the sheep and goats, the wheat and weeds, the vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.

• Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-05-08 12:29:06

  The problem is that once you finally realize that this is not God’s true earthly organization any more than any other religion (we’ve got some things right, and some things wrong just like other religions), and you see through the guilt (do more, do more, you’re not doing enough) and the fear (you’re going to die at Armageddon if you are not a JW) used to basically control people, and that you no longer want to be known as a Jehovah’s Witness, you still can’t leave without being cut off from family and friends. They will use your family and friends as a weapon against you.
  I used to be proud to say “I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case!
  As to when Jesus will sort things out, I eagerly anticipate it. However, I am not convinced it will happen in my lifetime. After all we have been misleadingly told it is eminent for over 100 years.

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-08 12:37:48

    So true.

• Reply by on 2014-05-08 15:55:18

  Thats right meleti expecting jesus to sort things out early. The elders go to extreme lengths to keep the congregation what they think is clean yet when we look at the illustration of the wheat and the weeds matthew 13 v 28 the slaves of the householder said to him do you want us to go out and collect them the weeds jesus said no that by no chance while collecting the weeds you uproot the wheat with them. Did he say that likely because an ordinary person cant really tell the difference because they cant read hearts and have imperfect knowledge .of the scriptures .So in their zeal to uproot the weeds many sincere christians have also been uprooted.verse 41 shows its really the job of the angels .Sure there is a case for reproving And even for individuals deciding to limit association with certain ones but for goodness sake how many people have they kicked out of the congregation.some for offences that arent even in the bible .kev

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-08 12:00:17

"If they were also used to give meaningful instruction into the deep things of God, that would be wonderful. At one time they were that way."
One has to be so careful what one says or writes. Often a remark has unintended consequences.
I just got an email challenging me on this statement, leading me to conclude that perhaps others feel similarly.
I wasn't implying that everything we learned at the conventions in the pre-Governing Body era was true nor accurate. However, it was not banal and pedestrian as it is now. There were many good thought-provoking talks and a greater depth of discussion into the Bible. There was error, true. But there was also much truth. In contrast these days, our assemblies and conventions give us repetitive fare. The lite-version of spiritual instruction.

Comment by on 2014-05-08 12:09:20

Point taken, Meleti. :) I agree and feel deep down that all people will be judged at the end individually, irrespective of what organisation they belong to, and that we don't have a 'golden ticket'. That belief, though, is highly controversial in my circle of family and friends and so I didn't express it here as that was my first ever comment on the site, although I have been an avid reader for months. I'm the anonymous comment, not Been Mislead. I'm not comfortable enough to create a name yet. Thanks for this site, I really appreciate your comments and efforts.