“People in glass houses should not throw stones.”
Troilus and Criseyede – Geoffrey Chaucer (1385)
“…if you are convinced that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an educator of the senseless, a teacher of little children…therefore you who teach someone else, do you not teach yourself?...You who boast in the law dishonor God by transgressing the law! For just as it is written, “the name of God is being blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” (Romans 2:19-24 NET Bible)
This part on the Friday afternoon session uses Luke 11:52 to open the discussion, showing how the religious leaders of Jesus’ day shut up the kingdom by denying their flocks the knowledge of God. The speaker then stated that those Pharisees were part of Babylon the Great.
Quoting Revelation 18:24 the speaker showed how Babylon the Great has been blood-guilty due to all the wars it has promoted throughout history. However, please note that the verse begins by condemning her for the blood of prophets and holy ones. This element was not mentioned in the talk. In most countries nowadays, Babylon the great is not legally able to murder holy ones and prophets, but she can and does persecute them. Therefore, any religion that persecutes, bans, and shuns faithful individuals who try to proclaim Bible truths to set matters straight, could qualify for membership in Babylon the Great. For some, cutting them off from friends and family has resulted in times of depression so intense that they have committed suicide. Worse, however, would be the loss of faith, for physical death is temporary, but spiritual death may be permanent. Those leaders of Babylon the Great feel no compunction in condemning the guiltless ones who challenge their authority and by so doing run the risk of having a mill stone tied around their neck before being chucked into the deep, blue sea. (Mt 18:6; Mk 9:42; Lu 17:2)
The next claim the speaker made was that the leaders of false religion are “self-serving hypocrites who shut up the kingdom to people everywhere”. Six scriptures are then read to show how Jesus’ words apply as much today as they did back then.
Starting with Matthew 23:2, he read: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.” He then said “You notice there? They claim to represent God, sitting in the seat of Moses and yet they shamelessly hide his very name.” It then goes on to denounce the Vatican for a recent 2008 edict requiring that God’s name be stricken from all written documents and verbal sermons. Abhorrent? Yes. But what does that have to do with what Jesus is denouncing in Matthew 23:2? We are missing the proper application of this scripture. He condemns those who presume to sit in the seat of Moses and thereby claim to represent God.
If you do a search on “Korah” in the Watchtower library program, you’ll find reference to him made in Watchtower articles in almost every year from the start of the 21st Century, often multiple articles in a given year. Korah opposed Moses who was indisputably God’s appointed channel of communication at that time. (w12 10/15 p. 13; w11 9/15 p. 27; w02 1/15 p.29; w02 3/15 p. 16; w02 8/1 p. 10; w00 6/15 p. 13; w00 8/1 p. 10) Jesus Christ is the greater Moses, so the example still fits—even more so. However, that is not our point. The parallel is drawn time and again that the action of Korah is paralleled by modern-day apostates who challenge God’s modern-day appointed channel of communication, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
It is incumbent on the discerning listener to ask him or herself if our leadership has not likewise seated themselves in the seat of Moses. The determination must lie in their actions. Like those ancient Pharisees, are they shutting up the kingdom? We will see.
Moving now to Matthew 23:4, the speaker continued: “They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.” He then applied those words to the Catholic church’s policy of paying for indulgences. Again, a reprehensible practice, but there are so many ways that this verse can be applied. We also tie heavy burdens on the backs of our membership. We have been guilty of stigmatizing higher education while at the same time using dedicated funds to send Bethelites to University to become lawyers or other professionals. Those who constantly extol self-abnegation in the pioneer service, live in beautiful surroundings with their every need taken care of by a cadre of volunteer servants. They do not wash their own clothes, cook their own meals, nor clean their own apartments. They are, quite literally, the Lords of the manor.
He then read Matthew 23:5-10. Verse five was applied to the religious garb that the Catholic Church is notable for. Of course, most fundamentalist religions are also considered by us to be part of Babylon the great despite the fact that they dress exactly as we do. Versus 8 to 10 were used to denounce the practice of mainstream religions of assuming pretentious, high-sounding titles. Specifically we are told not to be called leader, because one is our leader, the Christ. The implication is that unlike other religions, we do not give in to this. Yet, think, if you call yourself a governor, is that not just another name for leader; one who governs? It is not the Governing Body our leadership? Is not a Governing Body member, a leadership member?
“You’ve got to support his anointed brothers, accepting their leadership because God is with them.’” (w12 4/15 p. 18 Seventy Years of Holding On to the Skirt of a Jew)
“Our recognizing Christ’s leadership involves submission to his “brothers.” (w11 5/15 p. 26 Following Christ, the Perfect Leader)
“In a symbolic way, Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership.” (w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 6 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life)
We may not refer to anyone in the Organization as “Leader”, but we are merely obeying the letter of Jesus’ words. The spirit behind them is violated every time we refer to “a member of the Governing Body” in the near reverential overtones we’ve all become accustomed to hearing of late.
Using Matthew 23:13 the speaker states that Babylon the great is a leading factor for the spread of atheism around the globe because of three practices: 1) false religion’s hypocritical involvement wars, 2) their constant scandals in covering up for pedophile priests, and 3) their continual appeal for funds.
The record of Jehovah’s Witnesses with regard to involvement in wartime killing is pretty clean. However, our record with regard to covering up the sin of pedophilia has given us membership to a very undesirable false religious club. At one point in time, we could have claimed two out of three on this score. However, our latest policy to grab at the funds held by individual congregations while urging them to make additional firm monthly commitments means that at best we can claim a one out of three score. Is that enough to keep us out of Babylon the great? Not according to the principle found at James 2:10, 11.
Next, the speaker read Matthew 23:23, 24. The claim is made that false religion (i.e., Babylon the great) is guilty of failing to teach its flock how true Christians should live. False religions now promote adultery, homosexuality, same sex marriage, etc. Of course, false religion has been around for centuries, but it is only in the past few years that they have permitted such attitudes, yet they have always been false. Additionally, not all the religions that we would lump into Babylon the great tolerate these things. The scribes and the Pharisees were not known for permissive attitudes. Quite the contrary. A careful re-reading of these two verses will indicate that Jesus was referring to a too-strict application of the law—not a too-permissive one—while disregarding the more important qualities of justice mercy and faithfulness. We are misapplying the Scripture to try to make ourselves look good while condemning the rest. Are we not guilty of injustice and a lack of mercy through our many abuses of the disfellowshipping arrangement which is often used to maintain doctrinal purity in support of the interpretation of our leadership? We have imitated the Pharisees that Jesus here condemns by also inventing our own laws and then forcing others to apply them. We have our own equivalent of the tenth of the dill and the cumin in our requirement to report even in ¼ hour increments, to cite just one example.
Using Matthew 23:34, the speaker showed how Babylon the Great has persecuted our brothers. However, a quick internet search shows that we are not the only Christian religion that is persecuted. When other smaller Christian denominations are persecuted by the bigger denominations, does that mean they are no longer part of Babylon the Great as we allege? Jesus is referring to the Pharisees persecuting and killing prophets, wise men, and public instructors. These individuals are sent to them by Christ. So what we need to look for in applying Jesus’ words is not one organization persecuting another, but rather the leadership of a religion persecuting individuals who are speaking the truth as given to them by Jesus Christ. What would happen if you were to stand up in your congregation and show from Scripture that the teaching of 1914 as Christ’s invisible presence is flawed, or that the other sheep are nowhere shown in the Bible to represent a class with an earthly resurrection hope? Would you be listened to and respected or would you be persecuted?
The talk closes with an exhortation to all to zealously preach while time remains so as to help those still left in Babylon the Great to get out of her before it is too late.
Before we close, let’s return to Matthew 23:13 which is the theme text for this convention discourse. The claim is that Babylon the Great, like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day, shuts up the kingdom of the heavens. The majority of religions in Christendom teach that all good people go to heaven. It is true that most of them do not properly represent the kingdom of God to their flock. They also teach false religious doctrines and practices which make it very difficult for people to qualify for the kingdom of the heavens since everyone liking and carrying on a lie is to be excluded. (Re 22:15) Therefore, if we accept this as a qualification for membership in the Babylon the Great club, we must examine ourselves. While throwing rocks at other religions, are we living in a glass house? We consider ourselves as “a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an educator of the senseless, a teacher of little children”. Nevertheless are we who presume to teach others, not willing to teach ourselves? (Ro 2:19-24)
We teach that only a small remnant of 144,000 remaining on earth will go to heaven. That means that 99.9% of all the Jehovah’s Witnesses on earth today are excluded from the kingdom of the heavens. The Bible does not teach this. It is speculation based on false assumptions and has never been proven scripturally since it was introduced in 1935 by J.F. Rutherford. If the other religions of Christendom who teach that all good people go to heaven are guilty of shutting up the Kingdom of the heavens, how much more so guilty are we. For we deny our members even a chance at the hope of attaining to the reward that Christ freely extended to all his followers.
It is appalling that we have the unmitigated gall to stand up in public before a worldwide audience of millions and condemn all other Christian religions, when truly, in the category of “shutting up the kingdom”, we win first prize.
Archived Comments
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Comment by menrov on 2014-06-24 08:33:49
Not sure if on purpose but verse 3 was not mentioned in your review. Was it not used during the convention? If not, I can understand why. But anyway, as I read verse 2 and 3, Jesus did not deny the pharisees were sitting in the seat of Moses. Hence verse 3:
3 Therefore pay attention to what they tell you and do it. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they teach.
So, as I interpret it, it was fine that they claim to be in Moses seat but their behavior was not in line with their acclaimed position.
Verse 13 “But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in
Well, which organisation teaches that you can only become a friend of God and invites 16 million people to observe the symbols but demotivates them to make use of them and teaches to look forward to life on earth as a friend.......
I guess they did not finish with verse 36: 36 I tell you the truth, this generation will be held responsible for all these things!
Would have been nice how this GENERATION was explained... :-)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-24 08:50:37
I don't believe they used that verse, but I may have missed it. I was working from a recording made of the talk. Of course, the speaker may have overlooked the verse, while another speaker in a different convention may have included it.
I have wondered if Jesus' words to obey the scribes and Pharisees were in line with his words to "go the extra mile".
He wouldn't tell his disciples to disobey God. The laws of the Pharisees took the law beyond the point it was intended to stop, but didn't go against it, as I understand the history. Despite this, Jesus didn't do whatever they told him to do, but was constantly correcting them.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-24 08:34:06
Thank you for you work.
The hypocrisy of this stinks, I cannot fathom how they can in all honesty scripturally condemn others when we are just as guilty, if not more so as we proudly claim Gods name, represent that name every time we go door to door or witness, I am so ashamed.
Its like they are using reverse psychology.
1Cor 4: 8 So, are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you started ruling without us? Why, I wish that you had started ruling, so we could also be ruling along with you! 9 For, I think that God has put us (the Apostles) last on the show as men who are condemned to death… we've become a theatrical spectacle in this world to both men and angels! 10 And while we are fools because of the Anointed One, you are wise in the Anointed One… we're weak, but you're strong… we're dishonorable, but you're the glorious ones.
GB = rulers.
Comment by Sargon on 2014-06-24 12:57:13
In reality the "great crowd" is no better off than unbelievers. Jesus is not our mediator, we are not Jesus brothers or adopted sons of god. We have not been declared righteous by faith. So really what do we have? The prospect of surviving Armageddon after year of suffering faithfully and then waiting another 1000 years to survive another test? The kingdom has been shut up from the great crowd. The organization traverses land and sea for converts and then once they have made a convert, they make that one 10x more liable to gahenna
Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-06-24 16:07:37
Amen!
Comment by CJ on 2014-06-24 16:02:45
What were the new publications this year?
Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-06-24 16:28:13
Thank you for your timely review as always Meleti :)
I know that I have said this many times before …. But why is the GB so obsessed with the Catholic Church ???Reply by CJ on 2014-06-24 17:27:40
Have you ever heard that people pick on others because of their own insecurities? I think the pick on them we are just like them!!
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-24 20:04:17
A very thorough review as always Meleti, thank you for all the time you spend helping us to see the hypocrisy of the GB!
I have not considered myself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses for several years now, so I in no way identify with the Governing Body. The view from out here, is a whole lot different than what appears to be the view in there.
CJ, that is interesting what you say. I think the Watchtower has more in common with the Catholic Church than they would ever acknowledge.
Comment by CJ on 2014-06-24 20:15:12
People don't realize that it's not the Word of God they use to prove their doctrines. It's the Governing Body. For example, we would explain to someone using all the different scriptures as to why Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Now if they go though the bible proving it and the GB came out and said that he is not Michael the Archangel, witnesses would change their view right then and there. And then how would they view all the scriptures they just used? Now you would have to ask them whose view did they just consider the Bibles or the Governing Body's? Even with the scriptures they thought they knew, they would change their view right then and there and the scriptures would be voided all because of what they said.
Comment by Kian Swee Lim on 2014-06-24 20:20:44
My wife is a J.W.I "spiritually-progressed" & but later I found websites like this.Even told the elders stuff like the two-witness policy,child abuse cases,etc.An elder said he'd only continue our "bible study & discussion" if I stopped reading "apostate" material.I'm glad I stopped "studying" with him.I learn even more of God's word through the Internet & my attendance at a local Baptist church.
Sometimes I don't want to tell the congregation members the facts about the WTBTS for fear of breaking their hearts & robbing them of their joy.Shunning is a disappointment but I don't really care.Reply by Joel on 2014-08-03 17:04:22
I relate fully to both parts of your comment.
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-24 22:21:46
Kian Swee Lim, Thank you for your comment...I'm glad you chose to stop you "studying" and instead found the truth. I think what you said is very astute.
"Sometimes I don’t want to tell the congregation members the facts about the WTBTS for fear of breaking their hearts & robbing them of their joy."
I really appreciated hearing that from you. I think I can speak for many that we want our blinded brothers and sisters to have their eyes opened so desperately. You are right, it would break their heart, I know because it broke my heart when I found out the truth about the truth. It was a very bitter pill to swallow. It did take away my joy...until I reached the point of being able to accept it. Now I am even happier than I was before. But, it does not turn out that way for everyone. It is a very fine line to walk, as I'm sure you know.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-06-24 23:44:01
Sadly it's not about Jehovah, Jesus or Bible anymore, it's all
about them(Gb). Actually it was like that for long time I just didn't see it being in the happy Jw bubble. All we are supposed to do is to digest everything served as a spiritual food from Jehovah. No one can argue any scripture with the Fds and if you do you pay the consequences. At the end it all comes down to one question ' do you believe that the Gb is the faithful and discreet slave and the Jehovah's channel to feed his people' ? I still feel dirty after being forced to answer this loyalty question few days ago. I'm not yet ready to be ousted and cut off but I feel it's now inevitable. I want my freedom to believe in Christ without influence of any religious leader back and I will sooner or later get it ! How it feels to by free - 5dlrXCYrNYIReply by search4truth on 2014-06-25 08:41:54
http://youtu.be/5dlrXCYrNYI
Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-06-25 09:00:53
I like to answer their questions with questions. It really frustrates them.
When Asked:
Do you believe that the Governing Body is the Faithful and Discreet Slave and Jehovah’s channel to feed his people?
Answer with:
Are you saying the Governing Body is sitting in the seat of Moses? [Matthew 23:2] If so, where does Jesus stand? The last I knew Jesus was the greater Moses.
Was Jehovah using J. F. Rutherford to feed his people in the 1920’s when he was saying “Millions Now Living Will Never Die?”, When he was saying that Armageddon was coming in 1925? When he was saying that the ancient worthies were going to be resurrected in 1925?
Was Jehovah using Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz to feed his people in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s when they were saying that Armageddon was coming on or around 1975? When they were saying: “If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.” (See Awake, May 22, 1969, P. 14, What Future For The Young?)
If they answer yes (even all those are falsehoods) and will probably say something about the light gets brighter, then ask: Do you think that is true given the fact that the Bible say this about Jehovah?
“Into your hand I entrust my spirit. You have redeemed me, O Jehovah the God of truth.” - Ps. 31:5
“upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting,” - Titus 1:2
“in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us.” - Heb. 6:18
If they don’t answer your questions then you don’t need to answer theirs.Reply by Chris on 2014-10-25 22:40:19
That is one of my biggest pet peeves. I've always said that I am a JW but I don't agree with everything. The first thing a brother Willa so me is do I belieev that the GB is the FaDS? Since when does being a Christian or a JW rely on a group of men. I'm a Christian not a Governing-Body-ite.
Comment by Lawrence L. on 2014-06-25 01:03:39
I believe many J.W.s are sincere & honest-hearted persons.If they are somehow unknowingly & actually preaching the WTBTS & "Governing Body" doctrines,I pray that God will forgive them & give them a place in heaven or earth for their eternal life.
Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-25 02:14:57
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. True. They should draw the drapes
No doubt this truism applies more to Jehovah’s Witnesses than any other—not that they failed to expose the hypocrisy in other religions. They threw stones, even big rocks. But in doing so they left themselves wide open to Jesus own advice on how to extract the straw from your brother's eye AFTER extracting the rafter in your own. Our glass house exposes us to the same scrutiny we claim to have. Had we applied the same honesty we expected of others we wouldn’t be in the state we find ourselves today.
Christendom’s teachings and deviant history needed exposing. How true! And no group did better than Jehovah’s Witnesses—so well, as I remember that many of Christendom's own recommended studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses to learn the the basics of the Bible better, it was this recommendation that got me started. What I didn’t know was that my own beliefs had taken on their attitude of entitlement.
Hypocrisy begets hypocrisy. And that's the problem because the same people who allow it to dictate their beliefs will end up feeling superior, not realizing that this attitude gives entitlement to error while condemning the errors of others.
Jehovah’s Witnesses built their platform on exposing error. However, they did not expose the hypocrisy within them. Why can’t they see it? Hypocrisy is the most insidious of human flaws. It was born in the same sin inherited from what Satan allowed to grow in his own heart, which Jesus exposed so eloquently!
While I find myself in the midst of this hypocrisy I recognize it is the same glass house as those sects of Judaism during the time of Christ. And I recognize that I am in error whenever I knock on someone’s door, whenever I open my Bible to teach the errors of their religion without acknowledging that the one I represent is being equally exposed. No, I’m not an apologist. I’m just a mole burrowing beneath the roots of hypocrisy and dogma, looking for something to clean my windows.
swReply by Lawrence L. on 2014-06-25 12:14:26
Smolderingwick1,you said "Jehovah's Witnesses built their platform on exposing errors".I guess the new Management who call themselves the "Governing Body" with capitals G & B think they're flawless.It has somehow got into their heads.But what if the "Teaching Committee" right down to the local elders & even the rank-and-file think likewise?Scary!
With the advent of the Internet,we can now discover new info & able to debate things like whether the trinity/triune God taught by the churches could actually be true.Instead of unraveling the "errors" of the churches(or Christendom,if the J.W.s prefer) perhaps it would be better for the survival of the WTBTS to join forces with & appreciate the good works of some "Christendom".
Reply by menrov on 2014-06-26 10:17:12
Hi, I understand your comments. Just this point: Christendom’s teachings and deviant history needed exposing. Not sure if this had to happen by another organisation?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-06-26 10:42:34
Yes, they do need to be exposed, but not by an organization. By individuals as it has always been. By a people, even, under Christ. However, the moment a people become an organization, they become that which stands in opposition, because to be an organization means to submit to men and not God.
"We have seen the enemy and he is us!"
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-25 04:19:09
Search for Truth, I feel exactly the same its become unbearable, I can't in all conscience subject myself to this much more, its spiritual abuse and I feel such a hypocrite sitting there, I don't want to know anymore, its just to obvious that this is NOT the way of Christ.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-25 04:31:19
Smolderwick, none are as blind as Gods people the same situation existed with the Israelite nation, going from bad to worse only happens when ones are not humble enough to accept their own responsibility for their errors, this has been the case with the WT so its easier to throw those rocks for ones like this.
Because the WT hides behind the wrongs of others and hides the facts from their own playing this spiritual warfare game against their own its become far worse, and many have been stumbled.
Isaiah 42:19,20
19)Who are the blind but My servants? And who are the deaf but those [ruling] them? Who is as blind as those who’ve had all? For, the servants of God have been blinded. 20) Many times you’ve seen, but you were not watching. Your ears were opened, but you didn’t hear.’
They have become their own masters, seating themselves in Moses seat.
They don't realize that they have become just like the world, followers of men. Nowhere in the Scriptures has Jehovah required his people to put their full confidence in any man. (Ps. 146:3,4; Jer. 17:5; Ro. 3:4)
The GB likes to compare themselves to Moses, and that Jehovah required the people to listen to him and obey him; and most of the brothers in the congregations accept that. But Moses did not picture any governing body. He pictured Jesus, the greater Moses. (Heb. 1:1,2; 3:2-6) In wanting to compare themselves to Moses they have become just like Korah, Dathan and Abiram, who also persuaded others to follow them. But their end will be the same as those earlier rebels.Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-06-25 09:58:03
Katrina Said:
“In wanting to compare themselves to Moses they have become just like Korah, Dathan and Abiram, who also persuaded others to follow them. But their end will be the same as those earlier rebels.”
Excellent point Katrina!
I never thought about it that way. But it is so true, the GB are the one who have become like Korah.
Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-06-25 13:03:55
Hi Katrina, and yes this seating on the seat of Moses is true. But what is worse is their seating themselves on the throne of Christ. And their power-huckster's method of doing so! They have taken charge in their own volition using words of entitlement to validate their claim. A very serious step. But since it has survived for generations already taken by WT predecessors, the best we can do is wait for Jesus to expose the ruse in his own way. That's coming.
I recall a conversation with a senior member of the writing department back in the 90's. The conversation became so emotional that he blurted out quite passionately of the GB: "They've already begun to rule! They’re already sitting on the throne of Christ!" And did not Paul's words ring in my ears?
"Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings."
Especially now since their arbitrary decision to make the Governing Body into an exclusive Faithful and Discreet Slave. But then, that was their plan; their decision. They own it. And since they solidified it into dogma, there's precious little any one of us can do but martyr ourselves as apostates just as Paul further reasons:
"We are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. Down to this very hour we continue to hunger and thirst and to be poorly clothed and to be beaten and to be homeless and to toil, working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless; when persecuted, we patiently endure; when slandered, we answer mildly; we have become as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things, until now." (1 Corinthians 4:8-13)
What was Paul saying? That as soon as a hierarchy is formed, it cannot be reversed. It is a powerful, satanic tool. Was he not a Pharisee? Did he not suffer as an ex-Pharisee? Are we not going to suffer the consequences of joining ourselves to Christ? Because I have not personally sat on the judgment seat of Christ, can I not ask them who have and who would actually cast me off? “Who is the antichrist?” Is it not they who would sit themselves on the throne of Christ to punish anyone disobedient to them before his return? As the screws are tightened to the lid of this dogma, I can only ask:
What about those of us already joined to Christ? Who is it that departs from the teachings of Christ? Who is it who would twist the inspired words of John to say “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort?” The sort? Who departed from whom? Who are more like Christ? Those who remain obedient to a hierarchy of men or those who are condemned by such men for living by the teachings of Christ?
“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. As for you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with the Son and in union with the Father.” (1 John 2:22-24)
sw
Comment by bobcat3 on 2014-06-25 11:27:04
Search4Truth, this scene from Star Trek TNG reminds me of of what "truth" is according to the GB
Comment by bobcat3 on 2014-06-25 11:28:34
Sorry about that, I had the formatting wrong.
here
Bobcat
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-25 12:41:02
Lawrence L said: "With the advent of the Internet,we can now discover new info & able to debate things like whether the trinity/triune God taught by the churches could actually be true.Instead of unraveling the “errors” of the churches(or Christendom,if the J.W.s prefer) perhaps it would be better for the survival of the WTBTS to join forces with & appreciate the good works of some “Christendom”
Lawrence L. I'm somewhat confused by your comment. Could you be more specific about what you are suggesting...and the reason behind it?.Reply by Lawrence L. on 2014-06-25 20:19:19
Imacountrygirl2,with God all things are possible,right?& there's a plethora of info as well as scriptures to support the trinity/triune God doctrine.Many of my Christian(of "Christendom") friends,I believe.really do their best to live up to God's standards of love,etc.Despite not going door-to-door,some of them just love talking about God & Christ.Their sincerity & kindness makes one want to chat with them - without the feeling that religion talk is taboo.A form of witnessing,perhaps?What about the charitable works that some churches do?Wouldn't unbelievers be grateful for the soup lines?Sure,others do such charity,too!Would God simply "write off" our favorite "Christendom"?
So,whether or not trinity/triune or Jesus was created....we can all share our & discuss our beliefs rather than simply "blacklisting" the other churches.
WTBTS many rules,more rules,even more rules....secret elders' manual,"apostasy of Internet",etc make Christianity seem such a complicated affair - a far cry from the thin & simple magazines they use for door-to-door.& certainly from the simple teaching of Christ to love God whole-souled....& to love our neighbor.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-25 13:32:15
smolderwick
What can I say only to agree with you, sad but not really because to suffer for the Christ is a blessing and I am only starting to understand all this.
After many yrs as a JW I have never come to know Christ, I am awakening and it was very scary as it puts one outside of the org, because Christ and the org don't mix, but I am starting to feel a freedom I have not had before, I may lose some things but I know I will gain so much more, I am on a journey and I feel strange but liberated at the same time.
I trust God's word and I have learned so much these past year, I feel strong but weak, but strong. I feel like I have been called out, but frightened also.
Comment by i on 2014-06-25 13:57:46
Ill tell you a story of what happened to me a couple of years ago . I took my car to a mechanic who then decided to deride other mechanics who i had dealt with previously and said he could not do the same thing to his customers he looked disgusted . Those comments then built up my faith and confidence in this man so he worked on my car and i paid him even giving him a nice little tip . Then a few months later i had the same problems only to find out that he botched my job and even charged me for parts that he never even replaced and not only that when i spoke to others he had done exactly the same thing to them .Do we understand the moral of the story .By exposing the faults of others and condenming them the listeners tend to put confidence and faith in the other party . Politicians use this tactic to get into power .its used by confidence tricksters by buisnessmen .and others even in the entertainment industry .its all part of mind control . Thats my theory either that or they are completely self deceived .For its obvious to me that they do the same things .kev
Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2014-06-25 21:35:32
Lawrence, thank you for explaining that: "Many of my Christian(of “Christendom”) friends,I believe.really do their best to live up to God’s standards of love,etc.Despite not going door-to-door,some of them just love talking about God & Christ.Their sincerity & kindness makes one want to chat with them – without the feeling that religion talk is taboo.A form of witnessing,perhaps?What about the charitable works that some churches do?Wouldn’t unbelievers be grateful for the soup lines?Sure,others do such charity,too!Would God simply “write off” our favorite “Christendom”?"
I could not agree with you more! I have been d/f for several years and when I was away from the control of the organization, I came to realize that Jesus second commandment was to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Our neighbors are everyone who is around us, not some special group of people. I try and live my life based on that love, I do as much as I can to help my neighbors and my community. I often have up-building and encouraging conversations with my neighbors, who are mostly Christians already.
It has been on the internet, mainly at this site and the Discussion Board that I have learned much more about the Bible than I ever knew in over 40 years at the KH. I have also come to appreciate that Jesus is my Savior and that God has given Jesus the task of judging mankind, so He is the one I answer to, not some man or man-made organization.
The net has also allowed me to do a good bit of research into the GB's sordid past, which means they can't hide their secrets anymore.
The trinity is a whole 'nother topic. If you want some discussion on that subject, join the Discussion Board and search the subjects. The link is at the top of the page.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-06-26 07:54:46
bit of subject but a must view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-b65W-zQs
great video and hopefully will help many JW..
in finale from 50.28 onward in summary excellent comments!!
Comment by WT Study: You Must Love Jehovah Your God. | Beroean Pickets on 2014-08-03 08:01:30
[…] Par. 17 – “Regularly attend Christian meetings, assemblies, and conventions.” There is no need to add the qualifier “JW” in front of “Christian meetings…” because we would simply not consider the Christian meetings, assemblies, and conventions of other Christian denominations. They would not qualify because they are not part of true Christianity as we are, because they teach falsehoods. Ah, but therein lies the rub for an increasing number of us. As the subheading asks, we are wondering if we can truly prove we love God if we attend JW gatherings where falsehoods are taught. These two parts from the Friday sessions of this year’s convention are but one case in point. (See “Sacred Secrets of the Kingdom Progressively Revealed” and “How Babylon the Great Has ‘Shut Up the Kingdom’”) […]
Comment by Bringing Many to Righteousness | Beroean Pickets on 2014-08-27 08:01:38
[…] [iv] See also: How Babylon The Great Has Shut Up the Kingdom […]