Recap: Who Is the Man of Lawlessness?
In the last article, we discussed how we can use Paul’s words to the Thessalonians to identify the man of lawlessness. There are various schools of thought regarding his identity. Some feel he has not yet been manifested but will appear in the future. There are those who believe that prophecies in Revelation and Daniel (see: Re 13:16; 14:9; 16:2; 19:20; 20:4; Da 11:21-43) are linked to Paul’s words about the man of lawlessness. Some believe he might be a literal man.
The conclusion reached in the last post was that he is not an individual, but a type or class of men which has existed down through the centuries following the death of the apostles. This understanding is based on the following textual elements of Paul’s words at 2 Th 2:1-12.
- The man of lawlessness takes his seat (a position of authority) in God’s Temple.
- God’s temple is the Christian congregation.
- He acts like a God, demanding devotion and obedience.
- He existed when Paul was alive.
- He was restrained by the existence of Christ’s chosen apostles.
- He would surface when that restraint was removed.
- He deceives by lies, deceptions, powerful works, false signs and wonders.
- Those following him are perishing—present progressive tense, indicating an ongoing process.
- The man of lawlessness is wiped out when the Lord returns.
Given the above, it would seem a safe assertion to make that correctly identifying the man of lawlessness is a matter of life and death.
The Bible’s Theme
The question asked at the close of the previous article was: Why does Jehovah tolerate the existence of the man of lawlessness?
When I asked myself that question, I recalled a discussion I had some time back with Apollos regarding the Bible's theme. (This may not seem at first to be connected with our discussion, but bear with me a little bit.) Like all Jehovah’s Witnesses, I have been taught that the theme of the Bible is God’s sovereignty. We are told that “sovereignty” = “right to rule”. Satan challenged not God’s power to rule, but the morality and rectitude of his rule—therefore, his moral right to rule. All the suffering down through the ages documented in Scripture is supposedly a series of historical object lessons demonstrating that only Jehovah can rule for the benefit of humankind. Working on this premise, once it has been proven to the satisfaction of God’s faithful intelligent creation—it’s never going to be proven to Satan’s satisfaction, but he doesn’t count—then God can bring an end to what has been in effect a millennia-long court case and restore his rule.
There is some merit in this line of reasoning, but does that mean it is the central issue in the Bible? Was the Bible's main purpose in being written to prove to humanity that God alone has the right to rule us?
In any case, the proof is in. In fact, the final nail in the coffin of Satan’s case was hammered home when Jesus died without breaking his integrity. If this issue is the sum total of the Bible’s message—its core theme—then it is a pretty simple one. Listen to God, obey and be blessed; or listen to men, obey and suffer. Certainly, there is no sacred secret here; no mystery so profound that even angels could not unravel it. So why were the angels still desiring to peer into these mysteries in the time of Christ? Obviously, there is much more to the issue. (1 Pe 1:12)
If sovereignty was the only issue, then once the case was closed, God could have wiped humankind off the earth and started anew. But he couldn’t do that and be true to his name (his character). It appears that is what puzzled the angels. God’s sovereignty is based on love. We’ve never lived under a government based on love, so it is hard for us to grasp the significance of this distinction. It is not enough for God to use his power, wipe out the opposition and impose his laws on the populace. That is human thinking and the way a man would go about imposing his sovereignty. A sovereignty or rulership based on love cannot be set up by force of arms. (This forces us to re-evaluate the purpose of Armageddon, but more on that later.) We can now begin to see that much more is involved. In fact, the solution is so mind-bogglingly complex that its solution—arrived at and announced immediately by Jehovah at Genesis 3:15—was a great mystery to the rest of creation; a millennia-long sacred secret.
The unfolding and eventual revealing of this secret is the true theme of the Bible, in the humble opinion of this writer.
The mystery unfolded slowly over the course of 4,000 years. This seed of the woman has always been the principle target of the Devil’s assaults. It looked like the seed might even be extinguished during the violent years before the flood when those faithful to God had dwindled down to a mere eight individuals, but Jehovah always knew how to protect his own.
The revelation of the mystery came when Jesus appeared as the Messiah in 29 C.E. The closing books of the Bible reveal the Bible’s theme to be the identification of the seed of the woman and the method by which this seed will reconcile humankind to God and undo all the horror that Satan’s system has unleashed upon us.
The Wrong Focus
Our sovereignty-centric theology as Jehovah’s Witnesses makes us focus on God’s right to rule, putting the salvation of mankind as a distant second in importance. We teach that God will re-establish his sovereignty at Armageddon by destroying the wicked, condemning them to the second death. This causes us to view our preaching work as a life-and-death activity. For us, it all stops at Armageddon. If you are not a Jehovah’s Witness, but are fortunate enough to die before Armageddon, you have a good chance of being resurrected in the resurrection of the unrighteous. However, if you have the misfortune to survive until Armageddon, then you have no hope of a resurrection. You will die for all time. Such a teaching is important to keeping the rank and file anxious and active, for we believe that if we don’t sacrifice our time and resources fully, then some might die who would otherwise have lived and their blood will be on our hands. We encourage this way of thinking by misapplying Ezekiel 3:18, forgetting that those to whom that prophet preached—by our own theology—will come back in the resurrection of the unrighteous. (w81 2/1 The Time for a Watchman like Ezekiel)
If Armageddon is the last chance for salvation, then why delay? The longer it takes, the more people are going to die. As Witnesses, we close our eyes to the reality that our preaching work is falling behind. We are not the fastest growing religion in North America. In many countries, the statistics have to be massaged to give the illusion of growth. Yet, there are hundreds of millions on earth today who have never heard our message and of those who have, it is ridiculous to suggest that by hearing Jehovah’s name they have had an opportunity for salvation and the responsibility is theirs for rejecting it. Yet these beliefs are constantly reinforced in our minds. For example, consider these song lyrics:
Sing to Jehovah, Song 103 “From House to House”
1 - From house to house, from door to door,
Jehovah’s word we spread.
From town to town, from farm to farm,
Jehovah’s sheep are fed.
This good news that God’s Kingdom rules,
As Jesus Christ foretold,
Is being preached throughout the earth
By Christians young and old.
3 - So let us go from door to door
To spread the Kingdom news.
And whether it’s embraced or not,
We’ll let the people choose.
At least we’ll name Jehovah’s name,
His glorious truth declare.
And as we go from door to door,
We’ll find his sheep are there.
Sing Praises, Song 162 “Preach the Word”
“Preach the word” in work unceasing.
O how vital that all hear!
Wickedness is fast increasing,
And this system’s end draws near.
“Preach the word” and bring salvation
To yourself and others too.
“Preach the word,” for vindication
Of Jehovah’s name is due.
There is nothing in Scripture stating that every man, woman and child alive at the start of Armageddon who isn’t a baptized Jehovah’s Witness will die the second death. The only scripture we use to support this idea is 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10. However, the context of that scripture points to its application within the congregation, not the unwittingly ignorant world at large. Our knowledge of God’s justice and love should be enough for us to know that universal condemnation is not the purpose of Armageddon.
What we overlook in teaching this is the fact that one of the key objectives of Jesus’ rule is the reconciliation of humankind to God. God’s sovereignty over humanity is only achieved once this reconciliation is complete. So Jesus must reign first. It is the sovereignty of Jesus Christ that begins around Armageddon. Then, over the course of one thousand years, his kingdom will bring the earth and mankind into a state of grace, of reconciliation with God, so that he can fulfill the promise of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 and restore God’s sovereignty—the rule of love—making God all things to everyone.
“. . .Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.”
With this view, we can see that Armageddon isn’t the end, but merely a stage in the process of restoration. It is understandable how the average Jehovah’s Witness can be misled into focusing on God’s sovereignty as the only real issue and therefore the Bible’s theme. After all, Jesus makes frequent reference to the kingdom and we are constantly reminded in the publications of how often the Bible uses the phrase “the good news of the kingdom”. We know that Jehovah is king of eternity and that he is the sovereign of the universe, so it is a logical to arrive at the conclusion that the kingdom of God is God’s universal sovereignty. We are kept ignorant of the fact that an even more common usage is “the good news of the Christ”. What is the good news of the Christ and how does it differ from the good news of the kingdom? In fact, it doesn’t. These are synonymous phrases, focusing on the same reality from differing viewpoints. The Christ is the anointed one and that anointing is from God. He has anointed his king. The domain of the king is his kingdom. Therefore, the good news of the kingdom is not about God’s sovereignty which is universal and has never ceased, but of the kingdom he has established with Jesus as king for the purpose of reconciling all things to Himself—of restoring His sovereignty over humanity. Not his right to rule for that is not disputable, but his actual rulership which humans have rejected and which cannot be restored until we can understand how a rulership based on love works, and implement it from our end. Again, it cannot be forced on us, but we must accept it willingly. This is what the Messianic kingdom accomplishes.
With that understanding the central role of the seed—the true theme of the Bible—is brought to the fore. Also with that understanding, we can see Armageddon in a different light, we can grasp why the end seems to be delaying, and we can discern why Jehovah has allowed the man of lawlessness to affect the Christian congregation.
The Right Focus
Imagine you are an angel just witnessing the rebellion of Adam and Eve. Jehovah is allowing the humans to procreate, meaning there will soon be billions of sinners all condemned to die. You know Jehovah can’t simply pardon them. God does not take shortcuts through his own law code. In fact, doing so would reveal a limit to his power which is unthinkable. His limitless power and infinite wisdom is manifest in that no matter what the situation, He can fix it without compromising His own law. (Ro 11:33)
Jesus, in revealing facets of this sacred secret, introduces the incredible idea that humans would be elevated to positions of spiritual oversight together with him so as to reconcile humanity to God and undo all that the Devil had wrought down through the ages. However, these humans first have to be qualified for the task. In this, Jesus as always set the standard.
“. . .Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek.” (He 5:8-10)
How remarkable that a superlative being like the firstborn of all creation should have to qualify for the role of Messianic king. He had to learn firsthand what it was to be human. Only then could he relate to us in the necessary way. He had to be tested, so as to “learn obedience”, though he had never been disobedient a day in his life. He had to be “made perfect”. This is the type of perfection that can only be achieved through the fire of the crucible. If there is no impurity—as was the case with Jesus--what is revealed is all that was there in the first place. If there is impurity, as is the case with the rest of us, it is melted away, leaving behind a refined quality of value to God.
If Jesus had to suffer to qualify, so must we all who desire to share in the likeness of his resurrection. (Ro 6:5) He did not come to save the world, at least not right away. He came to save his brothers and then, together with them, to save the world.
The Devil—a mere creature—tempted him by offering him all the kingdoms of the world for one little act of devotion. The Devil was seating himself in God’s place and acting as a God. Jesus turned him down flatly. This is a test we all must face. We are asked to submit to creatures, to obey them as if they were God. I know of one elder who was removed simply for stating that his obedience to the Governing Body was conditional and based on the principle of Acts 5:29. He had not disobeyed even a single directive of the GB, but just the potential that he might if he felt it conflicted with God’s law was enough to warrant his removal.
Understanding the sacred secret as it relates to Christ's anointed brothers helps us discern why the end seems to be delaying.
“10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.” (Re 6:10, 11)
The full number must be gathered. First we need the rulers and priests in place. Everything is waiting not on the preaching work of Jehovah's Witnesses to reach some predetermined point of completion, but rather on the testing and final approval of the remaining ones making up the complete number of the seed. Like Jesus, these must learn obedience and be made perfect.
Why Permit a Man of Lawlessness?
“. . .“I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lit? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am distressed until it is finished!” (Lu 12:49, 50)
Enter the man of lawlessness. Though not the only means for Jehovah to test and refine, he is a key element. If the salvation of mankind was the direct and immediate purpose of the fire that Jesus lit, then why not continue to appoint apostles? Why not continue to demonstrate divine approval and endorsement through miraculous gifts of the spirit? It would certainly end most theological debates if one could do as Jesus did when questioned about his statement that he could forgive sins.
“. . .Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and pick up your cot and walk’? 10 But in order for YOU men to know that the Son of man has authority to forgive sins upon the earth,”—he said to the paralytic: 11 “I say to you, Get up, pick up your cot, and go to your home.” 12 At that he did get up, and immediately picked up his cot and walked out in front of them all, so that they were all simply carried away, and they glorified God, saying: “We never saw the like of it.”” (Mr 2:9-12)
Imagine how much easier our preaching work would be if we could do this? Removing this visible evidence of God’s endorsement opened the door for the man of lawlessness to come on stage.
The preaching work of Christians, including Jehovah’s Witnesses, cannot be about the salvation of humankind. That salvation doesn’t happen at Armageddon. The preaching work is about salvation, Yes—but of those who are to rule with Christ. It is about the first stage of salvation, the gathering of the seed. The second stage will occur over the course of one thousand years and is in the hands of Christ and his anointed brothers.
So without the gifts of the spirit, what identifies the ministers of God? The same thing that identified them in the first century. Our recommendation as ministers of God comes:
“by the endurance of much, by tribulations, by cases of need, by difficulties, 5 by beatings, by prisons, by disorders, by labors, by sleepless nights, by times without food, 6 by purity, by knowledge, by long-suffering, by kindness, by holy spirit, by love free from hypocrisy, 7 by truthful speech, by God’s power; through the weapons of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 through glory and dishonor, through bad report and good report; as deceivers and yet truthful, 9 as being unknown and yet being recognized, as dying and yet, look! we live, as disciplined and yet not delivered to death, 10 as sorrowing but ever rejoicing, as poor but making many rich, as having nothing and yet possessing all things.” (2Co 6:4-10)
Our perfecting is by suffering and enduring tribulation.
“. . .In fact, too, when we were with YOU, we used to tell YOU beforehand that we were destined to suffer tribulation, just as it has also happened and as YOU know.” (1Th 3:4)
“. . .For though the tribulation is momentary and light, it works out for us a glory that is of more and more surpassing weight and is everlasting;” (2Co 4:17)
“. . .Consider it all joy, my brothers, when YOU meet with various trials, 3 knowing as YOU do that this tested quality of YOUR faith works out endurance. 4 But let endurance have its work complete, that YOU may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything.” (Jas 1:2-4)
While this testing comes from the world, most will agree that the worst trials of faith they have experienced have come from within the congregation—from friends, family and trusted associates. This was foreseen.
“22 If, now, God, although having the will to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, tolerated with much long-suffering vessels of wrath made fit for destruction, 23 in order that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory,” (Ro 9:22, 23)
The vessels of wrath exist side by side with those of mercy. Jehovah tolerates their presence for the purpose of enabling the vessels of mercy to receive the glory reserved for them since the founding of the world. If we show integrity by not obeying men over God, even men we are told sit in God’s seat, then we will likely suffer persecution from those men, but that tribulation will perfect us and make us ready for the reward.
In Conclusion
Our Organization likes to talk about subjection to the authorities which God has placed. Receiving much attention in this regard is the Governing Body, followed by a hierarchical chain of command that ends with the local elders. In Ephesians 5:21-6:12, Paul speaks of many types and levels of authority, but noticeably absent is any mention of an ecclesiastical authority, such as a first century governing body. In fact, we read:
“. . .because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12)
By flesh and blood, Paul means our struggle is not fleshly in nature; we don’t make violent, physical war. Instead, we struggle with dark authorities backed by the Devil. These are not confined to secular governments, but any form of authority which the Devil sets up fits the bill, including the man of lawlessness whose “presence is by the operation of Satan.” (2 Th 2:9)
Let us never give in to any man within the congregation—God’s temple—who presumes to “sit down” in judgment and authority over God’s people, proclaiming himself to be God’s channel and demanding unquestioning obedience.
If we can maintain our faith and our love of truth and listen and obey only God and his son Jesus, then we can be blessed with the reward of ruling with Jesus from the heavenly places and participating in the eventual reconciliation of all humans to God. It seems like too grand a prize to contemplate, yet it has been held out to faithful humans for 2,000 years now. It is there even now to grasp, for you cannot take hold of something not present.
“. . .Fight the fine fight of the faith, get a firm hold on the everlasting life for which you were called and you offered the fine public declaration in front of many witnesses…safely treasuring up…a fine foundation for the future, in order [to] get a firm hold on the real life.” (1Ti 6:12, 19)
Archived Comments
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Comment by umbertoecho on 2014-07-17 03:11:19
At last......That was pretty gutsy.
Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-07-17 11:03:34
“Therefore, the good news of the kingdom is not about God’s sovereignty which is universal and has never ceased, but of the kingdom he has established with Jesus as king for the purpose of reconciling all things to Himself—of restoring His sovereignty over humanity. Not his right to rule for that is not disputable, but his actual rulership which humans have rejected and which cannot be restored until we can understand how a rulership based on love works, and implement it from our end. Again, it cannot be forced on us, but we must accept it willingly. This is what the Messianic kingdom accomplishes.”
That is my favorite passage of this powerful article .
Thanks Meleti for all of the hard work that went into this article.
Comment by on 2014-07-17 11:59:24
Thank you for this upbuilding article. I find it funny that I am rarely upbuilt by articles from the Watchtower, but I'm always upbuilt by you. Thank you, my brother.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-07-17 12:07:59
You are most welcome. And thank you in return for your encouragement.
Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-07-17 16:57:08
“There is nothing in Scripture stating that every man, woman and child alive at the start of Armageddon who isn’t a baptized Jehovah’s Witness will die the second death. The only scripture we use to support this idea is 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10. However, the context of that scripture points to its application within the congregation, not the unwittingly ignorant world at large. Our knowledge of God’s justice and love should be enough for us to know that universal condemnation is not the purpose of Armageddon.”
But we have the Watchtower telling us this:
“Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.” - (w89 9/1, Pg. 19, Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium)
Comment by Dorcas on 2014-07-17 17:41:35
Thank you so much for these articles, Meleti. I don't comment much, that is just my nature. (Others make such wonderful, insightful comments that I don't feel the need.) It doesn't mean that I don't read and appreciate all your hard work.
I agree with Anonymous, I am not upbuilt by our WT articles and the study lessons have become unbearable for me. I fear without this site I would be experiencing spiritual starvation. You and all the others who participate here are appreciated more than you can possibly realize.
Now please excuse me, I have a little more "chewing" to do. :)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-07-17 18:07:05
I figured you were following quietly, and I'm so glad to hear you're still with us.
Comment by search4truth on 2014-07-18 09:50:56
This article completely changes how I viewed the sovereignty issue so far, due to the Wt indoctrination. I'll have to read it few times again and check all relevant scriptures, but it looks like another Wt faulty interpretation is unraveled. Thanks.
Comment by kernowsmith on 2014-07-18 17:27:12
I hope that you find peace in your writings.The witnesses have much to suffer,and will have in the future with a despotic leadership now taking on its own delusions.
Hebrews 4:13 makes it clear that we are all naked in the eyes of the almighty.
Hermeneutics do not sit into the world view of the leadership at Patterson .
Thanks for your article.Take care.
Comment by Andrew on 2014-07-18 23:07:23
Meleti:
In the original post, you commented:
“There is nothing in Scripture stating that every man, woman and child alive at the start of Armageddon who isn’t a baptized Jehovah’s Witness will die the second death."
You are, of course, correct. What may amaze the readership here is that Judge Rutherford also agreed with you.
Listern for yourself at:
http://god-exists.com/rutherford.html
We often think of Rutherford as a hard-core, intolerant man with a tendency to ruthlessly suppress dissent. The Olin Molye affair comes to mind. But keep in mind that the writings of Charles Russell, especially The Divine Plan of the Ages, no doubt influenced his lifelong beliefs. Russell believed fervently that all persons would be given an opportunity to learn and respond to the truth "in due time." No doubt his close association with Russell helped him accept this as well.
Think about it this way. When a person learns that God is not planning on torturing people in a burning hell, and they themselves are freed from such fear, they start to think of God as the kind and loving Father that He is. They no doubt will draw closer to God because of learning this. What is the likelihood that such a person will later change his mind and return to the belief that God will destroy billions of people, simply because they do not believe as he does? Not likely at all.
Many of us have come to know of these things partly through the writings of Russell, and many of us were freed from such fears as a result. Imagine what it was like to hear these truths directly from his lips, and in personal conversations! It does not surprise me, that despite his reputation, he retained this belief.
AndrewReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-07-21 12:10:24
Thanks for sharing that link with us, Andrew. That goes into the reference library.
Reply by Andrew on 2014-07-21 15:18:36
My pleasure. I have another record in which Rutherford says about the same thing. I'll post it at the same link later today.
Andrew
Comment by Alex Rover on 2014-07-19 09:00:38
The conversation stopper is: where else shall we go? Whom shall we associate with?
I don't long for another organization, but I do long for free association with people who love gods word more than those of man. I want to preach what I believe with my whole heart.
But once you have such a group, how can you have the belief you have more truth without also feeling like the disciple Jesus favors more? How can we wash each other's feet?
Meleti, thank you so much. I pray the readership can grow to a point where we can sustain you carrying out this work on a full time basis.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-07-21 12:14:29
How often we rephrase Peter's word from "to whom" to "where". I've done it myself several times. Of course, we go to Christ who is with us, so there is no where in that sense, but you bring up a good point. Our natural desire is to associate with fellow Christians. In this transition phase we are in, we can feel like we're in limbo. I'm thankful for the cyber community we now have and look forward to the day when there will be many more and free association will be possible.
Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-07-21 13:42:50
Amen!
Comment by Jannai40 on 2014-07-19 18:15:46
I always used to imagine that the Kingdom must be way into the future because Satan could always claim that he could have done more, and we really have no idea to how bad things could become. But as this article explains, "Satan challenged not God's power to rule, but the morality and rectitude of his rule - therefore his moral right to rule." So then once that has been accomplished God can restore His rule and whether Satan could have done more will not be an issue.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-07-19 23:39:06
over the many years Satan has tried my form of Gov, has not worked, I believe his ultimate plan is to set up a one world Gov, new world order in opposition to Gods one world Gov, he is the mimic God after all.
Jehovah has allowed time for him to prove that his way of rule is better, but by history we all know that is a lie and unattainable, his goal is to misled as many as possible.
One world Gov by his seed in opposition to one world Gov by Gods seed.Reply by BN on 2014-07-20 01:14:54
It's all about the seed - not the world! Satan has always focused on trapping them: his last attempt is the org who currently hold them captured ! What we all are waiting for is the last one to be sealed !! Rom 8:19. But that won't happen before they have chosen who their master really is; by following men/lies/satan or the Anointed One/truth/holy breath. And those who follow truth will suffer! Heb 13:13, 14.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-07-20 07:45:52
BN thank you yes, the org I have believed for quite awhile that the WT is being used to capture, is this what you are mean, and what should one do leave, get out of her.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-07-20 08:01:37
such an encouraging article, and one that I will be reading often as a reminder. thank you
Comment by yobec on 2014-07-20 19:29:56
Meleti! I respectfully disagree with you that Satan will never be convinced that his challenge has been successfully adressed.
Of course the following is simply my opinion but it seems to me that mere humans beeing elevated to the status of immortality and then "destroy Satan under their feet" as Paul puts it, seems to show that even in the face of indestructibleness, these former humans who choose to kill him shows that he is WORTHY of such an elimination. Seeing that if immortality truly signifies not ever beeing able to be put to death even by the Creator (some disagree with this) they still nevertheless choose to eliminate him, to me that seems to put the icing on the cake. Basically, he claimed that humans only obeyed God due to their beeing in fear of disobeying him. But now,not having to fear elimination due to their posessing immortality( they can never die) they still opt for Satan's destruction. One would think that Satan gets the point..If not, ( if this is what you mean ) then everyone else gets it and in this way, we can say " How awesome God's wisdom is "
Christian Love.
YobecReply by J.D. on 2014-07-21 05:00:19
What is the victory over satan?
"Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Ro 12:21)
[so do i think]
Regards :)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-07-21 17:57:27
That is an interesting viewpoint, yobec. Thanks for sharing. My opinion (for it is only an opinion) is based on my experience with individuals who will not admit they are wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I figure if there are humans like that, then how much more entrenched in the rightness of his own thinking processes must Satan be.
Comment by maxwellsmartjw on 2014-07-22 07:20:13
A little late reading this and posting, thank you Meleti for your research, perspective and the time devoted to putting this together.
I am in agreement with you that the MOL and dilution of truth was prophesied to occur and become evident late in the first century. Even as John penned the book bearing his name, it appears obvious by his effort to clarify details regarding the identity and role of the Logos, that some dilution was already in process. Fast forward to the translation of the KJV, the MOL was clearly evident, especially in the phrasing of critical texts such as John 1:1 and Phil 2:6.
A light came on for me when I realized how the KJV translators could have succeeded with such a egregious mistake in the phrasing of John 1:1. As it turns out, there are no definite or indefinite articles in the Latin language, from which much of the KJV was derived (Latin Vulgate). The ambiguity of the Latin Vulgate in John 1:1 left the door wide open for the MOL to cleverly distort this most basic truth. I believe the KJV is the most significant product of the modern day MOL. Influences of the erroneous KJV translation remain in the core teachings of all mainstream Christian religions. Any teaching (including JW) that is indefensible scripturally in the original language is at best diluted truth, a product of the MOL.
I believe the MOL is present in all modern day religious groups, including JW. It follows that those who "cling" to the erroneous KJV (and its successor the NKJV) would be more tainted than others.
To add to your thoughts regarding second death at Armageddon, the indecision of leadership regarding the eventuality of Sodomites over the years is very telling. If all (or part) of the wicked Sodomites who were destroyed directly at Jehovah's hand receive a resurrection, the doctrine of second death destruction of those who perish at Armageddon (some wicked, some only unrighteous) becomes impossible to defend. While the scriptures clearly indicate a resurrection (Matt 10:15), leadership's desire to have at its disposal the threat of second death to scare folks into compliance, completely overrides scripture and common sense. The fact that the last reversal (new light LOL) occurred within only months of the it-1 p616 (1988) demonstrates the internal struggle of leadership with this one.
The threat of second death destruction at Armageddon is a fear stratagem like a sledge hammer held over the heads of the R&F to insure total compliance with the "unique" teachings of JW. Should one question these teachings and the leadership which arbitrarily determines them, they are threatened with second death destruction at Armageddon. It's much the same as the fear tactic used in Christendom...... be good and do as we say or you will burn forever in hell. The only difference in the JW version is..... those destroyed will be sleeping at ground temperature.
MaxwellReply by Wild Olive on 2015-03-16 07:00:16
I really appreciated the thoughts presented,I have felt for a long time that the sovereignty issue was not as scripture reveals,every watchtower on the subject never has a core scripture that actually states Jehovah's sovreignty was up for question,assumptions are always attached to such articles.
I am inclined to disagree with maxwells comments re the KJV,it still is a monument of translation,with faults for sure,but I see the men who took great risks to do the translation the same as the people on this site,truth seekers ,not promoters of an organization or its agendas .
This will always stand for something in my estimation.
Comment by MM on 2015-04-20 15:22:31
The word lawless means without law. What law? The laws of God or the laws of men? For centuries many christian denominations and sects (including JW) have taught that God's Laws, as given through Moses, are no longer binding. This carries the thought that we can pick and choose which laws to follow. We agree that we shouldn't murder and steal, yet we throw out some of His laws, such as those concerning Sabbath and unclean foods.
Jesus clearly said at Matt 5:17-20 that he did not one to destroy the law, or the prophets. Yet, many churches teach that he did end it.
Most doctrines base the claim of the Law being done away with on Paul's writings. Peter himself said many were twisting the words of Paul and becoming 'lawless'. (2 Peter 3:15-17)
If the early believers misunderstood Paul while he was alive, is it possible that we can misunderstand his writings today? Something for us to ponder. Although there are some laws found in the Torah, writings of Moses, that we cannot follow today (due to there being no temple, no levitical priesthood, and our being outside of Jerusalem), there are many we can follow out of love for God and His Word.
I urge all to look into this. I'm still searching on this term Lawless. But when that day comes I don't want to hear these words : "'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws." Matthew 7:23 NLT
Comment by AR on 2016-02-01 16:03:08
Read both articles on the man of lawlessness, I've been reading up on this passage of scripture 2 thess on man of lawlessness, interesting passage, a reminder , where he sits, right amongst true congregation of Christians , but I think verse 11 it says , 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,. Hence the importance of having faith and love for truth and following the Christ and not men. Meleti Nice articles by the way
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-02-01 16:41:48
Thanks AR, and thanks for that insight. I continue to be both amazed and dismayed at the tenacious hold the Organization has over the minds of close friends, men and women I always thought were free thinkers.
Comment by Huldah on 2017-09-06 14:53:42
Simply Amazing, this article. How crucial it is for all who suffer so much at the hands of the MOL to understand why. There is so little acknowledgement of this extremely important fact from the scriptures that ' God scourges everyone he receives as a son'.
It was a unique treat to find such a beautiful truth masterfully intertwined with an understanding of the role of the MOL in this and a clarification of the real reason we are all still in this mess.
I have recently begun to soldify in my own mind the facts you lay out here about the anointed. To know that someone else, separately, after much thought and experience, reached the same conclusion only solidifies the firmness of this scriptural insight.