WT Study: "Jehovah Knows Those Who Belong to Him" – Addendum

Comment by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-09-08 12:13:12

Hi Meleti
An interesting thought to be sure, but in my opinion it may be wishful thinking.
To me the message of the article was clear enough: There are those in the organization who are bold enough to suggest the GB might be wrong, but we (the org) don't have sufficient evidence to kick them out at present. Nevertheless don't worry because they will get their just desserts (consumption by fire and earth swallowing) in due time. So when you hear anything that is at odds with what the GB say then just ignore it and remember that those who say such things will be consumed by fire in due course.
During our local congregation study we were assured (through commenting) that in 2 Tim 2:18,19 Paul was certainly referring to the rebellion of Korah, even though there is no hint of such a thing in scripture.
It was one of the most painful studies I have had to endure in a long time. Lots of misapplication of scripture, and a very “high control” tone throughout. One older brother towards the end made an emphatic statement that we are being taught to reject anything that does not come directly from the Governing Body, unless we wish to end up like Korah and his companions.
Paragraph 15 was a virtual footnote to the rest of the article, since the primary message was clearly to put the congregation on high alert and be suspicious of anyone who says anything that isn't sanctioned.
I wish I were wrong and you were right, but your hopeful version just doesn't square with what I observed. It would be very interesting to collect more comments from people who attended this one.
Apollos

• Reply by Dorcas on 2014-09-08 16:08:16

  I have to agree with you, Apollos. My take away from this article was the same as yours. It was very painful for me to sit through this study. Things differ from congregation to congregation and the comments surely add light to the subject. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that in our congregation great apathy has taken hold hence, any WT answers are basically straight word-for-word from the magazine. I don't get any real insight as to what others believe, which in itself is very distressing to me. We seem to be on auto-pilot at present. The comments at our meeting are mainly by the young ones. I don't understand this at all.
  The point I got from this article is "be suspicious, be VERY suspicious...just don't show it."
  Also, we presume to know how Timothy felt. We have no idea how Timothy felt since there is nothing in Scripture. Why do we do these things?

  • Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-09-08 16:29:20

    "The point I got from this article is “be suspicious, be VERY suspicious…just don’t show it.”
    Dorcas
    You've nailed it. That's exactly the way it came across to us.
    And yes, much was made about the artists illustration of Timothy and many were eager to explain in great detail his thought processes on the basis of that picture, again completely absent of any scriptural support.
    Apollos

    • Reply by MarthaMartha on 2014-09-08 16:46:35

      It's one of my 'bug-bears' how manufactured pictures can become factual representations of what really happened, and how statements such as ' Timothy was LIKELY perturbed' gets turned into the question 'how DID the actions of apostates affect faithful ones in Paul's day?'. It's very clever but I despair at the lack of resistance to mind control by most.... Unless they're just playing along for safety's sake?

Comment by on 2014-09-08 12:58:10

The article never gave a real defintion of "apostate", so I think most of the friends took it to imply any disagreement with the GB. I made the comment that we have to understand what apostasy means. I said it doesn't mean a difference of opinion over how a scripture may be interpreted, neither does it mean speculating about what the future may hold, because we all do that. Some of the brothers and sisters expressed appreciation for my having made that distiction.

Comment by Jannai40 on 2014-09-08 13:37:32

"Sometimes one gets the impression that certain articles are written in a code intended for true believers." How many true believers would be able to work out the code - not many I should think. If a Christian has something that important to say, then IMHO, he should have the courage to stand up and say it, for all true believers to hear.

Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-09-08 14:20:35

I just got a private email from one of the regular readers of the site which shows me how easily one's words can be misunderstood.
I take responsibility for this. It seems some may feel I was implying that Jesus is sending coded messages through the Governing Body. I was not. Additionally, I am not promoting the idea that the Watchtower Organization will be reformed by Jehovah. I think I've made that clear in other recent posts. I believe that Jehovah will save individuals, not organizations. In fact, I have come to the belief that Rutherford had it right--ALMOST. What he should have been preaching was that "ORGANIZED RELIGION IS A SNARE AND A RACKET!"
What I was trying to say is that I do not believe everyone in the writing department and in other responsible positions in Bethel has been corrupted into buying the ticket that the Governing Body is to be obeyed as God's only channel of communication and that all they teach is from Jehovah. Perhaps--PERHAPS--these tiny voices make themselves heard in some of the articles and by other means. If God's spirit is on his faithful ones--the wheat--then it will manifest itself in their words. I know of a brother who recently gave a public talk in which he spoke more of Jesus than is our custom. One brother actually called him out on it, but he stood his ground. I know of another who had the 2013 Circuit Assembly part, “Keep this Mental Attitude—Oneness of Mind” and purposely didn't deliver the line: "If we are to keep oneness of mind, we cannot harbor ideas contrary to God’s Word or our publications." He was called out on it by the District Overseer, but he stood his ground.
There are things said in this article which are true and which condemn the Governing Body, yet they got past the Governing Body because their myopic vision doesn't allow them to see how the words they approve for publication are self-condemnatory. Was this intentional on the writer's part, or was it done in ignorance? I don't know. I do know that when I give a comment that shows up a flaw in a Watchtower article, I do so in a way that will be evident to those who have a ear to listen, but will be missed by those who wish to remain blind. Others on this site have commented that they comment in a similar way. We preach as we can, in favorable season and in troublesome season. (2 Tim. 4:2)

• Reply by MarthaMartha on 2014-09-08 15:12:24

  There are occasional comments in our congregation too that cleverly but tactfully address sticky subjects and expose errors in context, or simply point out that our loyalty belongs to Jehovah and the Head of the congregation, Jesus and not to men. It's quite funny to see the slight consternation on the face of the study conductor.... He can hardly disagree! I try to do the same and always thank those who make the comments that make me silently cheer.
  I hope that you are right, Meleti. For a few years now I have noticed an obvious change of tone in some study articles that made me think someone was trying to put across a message in a way that thinking jws would recognise as an appeal to reason and scriptural truth. Whether deliberate or not, those little nuggets of gold are savoured.
  I got the feeling from studying the article that although most people will assume and accept it as solely as a warning to stay loyal to the organisation, there was reason to apply it to all IN the organisation, prominent ones included. It was obvious that I wasn't the only one seeing below the surface.
  'Myopic vision' or an 'ear to hear'. Well said!

• Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-09-08 16:24:32

  Meleti
  Just to clarify my own comment in the light of that - I did understand you just as you've presented it there. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I don't think anybody in the writing department was somehow hoping people would get a more subtle message about Korah. I think it was full frontal. Nevertheless it seems will also depend how the material came across on a local level.
  Apollos

  • Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-09-09 00:07:30

    On the other hand, a message could only slip by if it was worded very subtle...

• Reply by menrov on 2014-09-08 17:36:33

  I did understand your article as well. I guess that it can be possible.as with most organisations where eventually a.split will occur, it.starts with a few who.object,.slightly a first.and.depart./.split.eventually. Thats what happened.with reformist movement.and the many denominations that nowadays exist but have their origins in mainstream christian organisation like the catholic church.
  However, personally I think the article was as meant : refrain (avoid) from anything that is not ine line with or does not come from GB teachings.

• Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2014-09-09 12:44:05

  "Coded messages through the Governing Body?"
  This is doublespeak (through 'big brother', not God or Christ).....and it's not new. I resigned almost 15 years ago from conducting the WT for that very reason. It was always a challenge for me to get a true Biblical discussion going with all the loyalty wildcards added. The ongoing battle between the writing department and GB left me with a motto to all conductors after me: "Beware of the two minds of the WT!"
  Same with speaking assignments. The more I tried to rework Biblical context, the fewer I got, which was just as well since to this day my mind remains intact and lessons learned never diminish. Silence is golden when we finally grasp how the well the Bible works as a sea-anchor during storms of controversy.
  Today I just smile, comment when I can, and commend the more thoughtful lowly ones who still manage to bring sense to the study while the more vocal majority are either too young or suffering WT dementia. Yes, "Religion is a snare and a racket" when the state of the union surpasses Christian conscience.
  sw

• Reply by PhantomOfTheKingdomHall on 2017-10-25 18:24:57

  Well said, I also try my best to keep my comments as scriptural as possible without alerting people to ”apostate thinking!”. But it can be hard at times

Comment by Christian on 2014-09-08 16:42:29

I remember when the Peace & Security book was withdrawn and I asked why.
An elder made the comment that an apostate element had influenced some publications and there had been a purge at Brooklyn. This would have been around the time of Ray Franz and the Spanish group etc
It does seem to me that as with any man made organization or corporation there are always so called 'subversive' forces at work. Some good, some bad.
Something I have always wondered is how does the "Society" in the strict sense work/vote etc? How do brothers become Society members or for that matter how do the GB appoint another 'pope' to their hierarchy?
It's all a bit too secretive and aloof to me.

• Reply by Dorcas on 2014-09-08 17:02:42

  "How do brothers become Society members or for that matter how do the GB appoint another ‘pope’ to their hierarchy?"
  While I am not an expert on these matters, I am a third generation Witness. On my father's side my grandmother and her sisters were all Bible Students but left because of Rutherford's shenanigans. Ahem.
  All of my life I have heard about the "good ol' boys club." I've taken that to mean they were company men who knew some higher ups "in the club." Maybe I should be stoned for this, but I still believe that's how it works.

  • Reply by Christian on 2014-09-08 19:29:47

    All of my life I have heard about the “good ol’ boys club.”
    I think that is exactly the way it works, but it is shrouded in a sense of self-righteousness and entitlement that makes them think it is God's will.
    It's that same sense of being chosen by God that infects religious extremists everywhere. In the WTS/GB's case it's the erroneous belief that that they were appointed by God in 1919.
    In this they miss the point entirely...as the Jews as a nation did.
    Even if the WTS/GB were chosen by God it is not a coupon that can be used without conditions.
    By seeking to set God's terms for the survival of everyone else and convincing themselves of their own salvation they have become bullies and evil slaves. This is not the attitude Jesus encouraged his followers to have at Luke 17:10
    "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done."
    This is why their system of appointing elders goes contrary to scripture.
    It is the degree to which brothers manifest the works & fruit of the spirit that qualifies them, not the degree to which they comply to the rules & requirements of the GB.
    If this was done according to the Bible instructions then many many more brothers would qualify and be an encouragement to the congregation. Being an elder or servant would not be elitist or seen as a promotion but as a natural progression of spiritual growth and maturity.
    I remember one young brother being appointed as a servant and you would of thought he had won a lottery, handshakes and high fives all round. Disgusting!!!
    I am not saying all brothers view it this way at all, but that the system is geared like a corporate ladder of promotions and qualifications.

    • Reply by on 2014-09-09 17:40:08

      I've recently given what you say, Christian, much thought. I recently stepped down, (not stepped aside), and am not currently serving due to health reasons. So, my former fellow elders no longer view me as an elder, but just as "another brother". Therefore, no more "privileges", (praying on behalf of the congregation at meetings, e.g.) That's OK with me. I still consider myself an "unofficial" elder. I question by what authority brothers are appointed anyway. How does a group of fellow believers, uninspired men, come up with the idea that they can appoint or delete whomever they want because someone may or may not meet their expectations? I can't tell you how many times I got sick of hearing, "well, what's his service time look like?", when recommending a brother. I still consider myself an elder as do many of the friends.

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-09-09 18:01:37

        If I may add a thought, I find that brothers will often seek out help from a former elder bypassing the currently appointed ones. In my former congregation, no one went to the COBE for anything. So as far as being a shepherd, he was a lame duck. (Forgive the mixed metaphor) Whatever justification we may have for appointing some men while passing over others, the sheep are led by the spirit to those who can and will help them in times of need.

Comment by JimmyG on 2014-09-08 17:06:59

Apparently 3 people from the Writing Dept have 'resigned' recently. Probably doublespeak for df'd and kicked out of HQ. Also, a witch hunt is underway against a former DO who has spoken to some at HQ questioning the 2 tiered hope. The GB who are unwilling to soil their hands directly, has been trying to appoint a committee to handle the matter, but those asked have declined to be involved.
If all these details are correct, it indicates that Meleti's comments may be true.

• Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-09-09 00:13:54

  I'm yet to see a shred of evidence for these wild stories made by 'that' site. If anyone else can back up any of their story Id be inclined to believe it, but despite extensive searching I couldn't find another independent source. This is just like the time they claimed to have reporters inside the bombed mall in Kenya. Really?

Comment by JimmyG on 2014-09-09 01:16:19

Alex. I take it you mean anointedjw.org? Notice I used the words 'apparently', 'if' and 'may'. I agree, it needs verification from an independent source. I guess though, we all live in hope that the winds of change may happen at HQ someday.

Comment by Kyp on 2014-09-09 04:29:14

Well, I guess they don't describe people who don't believe in some dogma like 1914 openly, but people who say e.g. the field service report is unbiblical or making people dress like in early 1900s and damning everyone who doesn't would be unbiblical. The more trivial things when you compare it to real Biblical issues.
On the other hand: You can believe that 1914, paradise earth for most Christians etc. is unbiblical and still remain in the congegration without any "privileges". So maybe both kind of people are meant.

Comment by kev c on 2014-09-09 09:08:31

To be honest meleti when i read the article i had similar thoughts it seemed ironic to me . The very counsel in the magazine has more of a true application when turned on its head . To me the article was telling me to stay as far away from those teaching at the meetings as i can possibly get .. Jesus did say to be on guard against the leaven of the pharisees . I think its common sense to believe your right about these opposing forces at bethell . . Whats the old saying you can fool some of the people sometimes but you cant fool all of the people all of the time . I believe there will be free thinkers at all levels of the organisation .those who truly love god and the bible . Mixed with those who are there for different reasons .thats human nature and no matter how hard they try to stamp it out it wont go away .kev

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-09-09 09:58:32

  "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
  Apparently that comes from ole Ab Lincoln.
  It sure is true about JWs as well. Some will not acknowledge that some of our teachings are demonstrably false, not matter what you try to convince them. It is interesting that Korah and company stood their ground despite the evidence of their own recent history. They could have thrown themselves on the mercy of God and undoubtedly been forgiven, but they made no attempt. Better to die with one's pride in tact seems to be their motto.

  • Reply by on 2014-09-09 13:33:37

    I know brothers who believe the Watchtower is on a par with the scriptures because it comes from Jehovah's "channel of communication". Every so often I try to bring additional reference material, (Vines Expository Dictionary; Keil & Delitzsch Commentay, etc), into my comments during the WT, but always feel the brothers don't respect the references because the information doesn't come from the FDS. Very frustrating, but I keep trying.

Comment by Nick O. on 2014-09-09 12:03:50

I think you are right Meleti.
The situation described in the Watchtower is almost unheard of among Jehovah's Witnesses today. If you were average Joe Publisher and someone were to expose you to teachings that do not conform to what our official understanding is at the time, you can bet an elder is not going print out the 7/15 WT for you and tell you to "wait on Jehovah".
“when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.”
This line smacks of irony. Why not simply say "We must all decisively reject apostate teachings."
Just look at some other quotes:
‘Do I worship Jehovah out of love for him and in recognition of his sovereignty? Or do I place more emphasis on the physical blessing I hope to enjoy in Paradise?’”
As Meleti brought out, the physical seems to be most of what is promoted these days.
Then we have the curious passage in G Losch's story:
Catholicism (could just as easily be Watchtower) also claims that the pope (could as easily be Governing Body) is infallible
in matters of doctrine when he (they) speak(s) ex
cathedra, or in an officialcapacity. ...
No wonder that for many
Catholics the teaching of apostolic succession is
the most important teaching, since the correctness
or incorrectness of other Catholic teachings
hinges on it!
I could be wrong but I think there is Christian wheat who have a small voice which occasionally slips through the filters.

• Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-09-09 13:53:58

  I can see the other side of the coin, and accept that these things may be possible.
  Maybe such messages were conveyed in the material, and our congregation is just a particularly "tough nut to crack".

Comment by Mailman on 2014-09-09 12:28:06

I wonder why there were very few hands, 1-2 brothers in our local congregation, raising their hands on paragraphs dealing with apostates? Either they thought it was such a sensitive matter that they don't want to get involved in, or they felt uneasy to answer because they do not agree in full, or they simply didn't understand. :)

Comment by Mailman on 2014-09-09 12:31:35

I could not really withstand some of the paragraphs that I literally left the Kingdom hall midway, drove our car to a nearby gas station to load up gas, inflate the tires and had the engine oil checked. When I was back, only 3 paragraphs left. It was a relief study session was about to finish :)

• Reply by on 2014-09-09 13:46:52

  I felt the same way, Mailman. Everything in the study is carefully scripted, leaving little or no room for God's spirit to influence a brother os sister to say anything truly meaningful. I once thoguth about how refreshing it would be if the WT Study Conductor one day said, "Brothers, put away your magazines, and let's just use the Bible to consider the theme we have for today." I think the friends would offer their expressions more honestly and openly. Spiritual spontaneuos combustion! Of course, that's never going to happen. Thank the Master, Jesus, for the Bible Highlights!

  • Reply by J.D. on 2014-09-09 14:48:30

    "“Brothers, put away your magazines, and let’s just use the Bible to consider the theme we have for today.” I think the friends would offer their expressions more honestly and openly. Spiritual spontaneuos combustion!"
    Oh Yes!

Comment by Katrina on 2014-09-09 14:53:07

I never showed up, I couldn't handle it, the whole article was commanding and self indulgent.

Comment by johnamos880 on 2014-09-09 15:39:36

Quote- Meleti Vivlon said: What I was trying to say is that I do not believe everyone in the writing department and in other responsible positions in Bethel has been corrupted into buying the ticket that the Governing Body is to be obeyed as God’s only channel of communication and that all they teach is from Jehovah.- End quote
I agree with that and appreciate that someone in the writing department managed to get the following out.
[11-1-11 Awake- A fundamental requirement for faith is “an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1 Timothy 2:4) Only “the truth,” says the Bible, “will set you free,” free from misleading beliefs, whether they are scientific or religious. (John 8:32) The Bible warns you not to put faith “in every word.” (Proverbs 14:15) Rather, it says that you should “make sure of all things”—or test out the things you hear before believing them. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Why should you do research and test out your beliefs? Because faith based on falsehood is only a delusion. Some noble-minded people from the ancient city of Beroea set a fine example in acquiring proper faith. Even though these individuals really wanted to believe what Christian missionaries taught them, they made a point of “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”—Acts 17:11. What, though, if what you learn seems to contradict some of your deeply held beliefs? Should you just ignore it? Of course not. There may well be times when it is eminently reasonable to consider powerful evidence that appears to contradict what you believe. In the Bible, God promises to reward sincere individuals who search for truth by granting them knowledge, discernment, and thinking ability.—Proverbs 2:1-12.The kind of faith built on what the Bible teaches is compatible with reason. What kind of faith do you have? Many people have “inherited” their religious beliefs and have never seriously examined them in the light of reason. Yet, it is not a sign of disrespect to examine what you believe so as to ‘prove to yourself’ that your thinking is in harmony with God’s Word. (Romans 12:2) The Bible admonishes us to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (1 John 4:1)]
[6-1-86 WT- To acquire a complete heart, we must be prepared emotionally to set aside preconceived opinions, willing to let God be found true even if it does demolish some of our pet ideas or cherished doctrinal views. (Romans 3:4)]
[12-1-00 WT- Whatever authority people may arrogate to themselves, you do not have to accept their conclusions if they contradict God, ignore his Word, and violate common sense. In the final analysis, the wise course is always to “let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.” —Romans 3:4.]
[9-1-10 WT- To deceive, says one dictionary, means “to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid.” It also implies “imposing a false idea or belief that causes ignorance, bewilderment, or helplessness.” The basic idea of the word, along with such other words as “mislead” and “delude,” is to lead someone astray by underhanded means. Surely, a person who is not aware that he or she is being kept in a state of “ignorance, bewilderment, or helplessness” by deliberate misinformation is in serious danger. The really sad fact is that very often the person who is deceived or deluded tends to hold on to his belief in spite of strong evidence proving otherwise. Perhaps he gets so emotionally attached to his belief that he simply shuts his eyes and closes his ears to any evidence that might challenge it…Use what Jehovah God has given you. First of all, he has given you intellectual capacity so that you can distinguish truth from falsehood. (1 John 5:20)…Most important, God has provided you with an infallible means with which to protect yourself. What is that? The same one that the apostle Paul encouraged his companion Timothy to rely on when it came to matters of religious faith. After giving the warning about “wicked men and impostors,” the apostle Paul told Timothy to resist them by basing everything he believed on “the holy writings”—that is, on God’s holy Word, the Bible.—2 Timothy 3:15. Rather than being deceived by what is “falsely called ‘knowledge,’” use God’s Word to establish the truth. (1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Be like the noble-minded men and women whom the apostle Paul preached to in Beroea. They received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. —Acts 17:11.You have nothing to fear from examining your beliefs in this way.” The bible encourages you to "make sure of all things" before accepting them as true. (1 Thess 5:21) Toward the end of the first century C.E., the apostle John urged his fellow christians: " Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God." (1 John 4:1) Yes, even though a certain religious teaching seems to be "inspired" - or to come from God- it is still the course of wisdom to examine the Scriptures to make sure before accepting it as true- John 8:31,32. "]

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-09-09 15:53:06

  Thank you so much, JohnAmos for compiling this list of WT publication references. It will come in handy when helping well-meaning, but deluded friends to see the truth.

• Reply by Katrina on 2014-09-10 03:57:13

  I was referring to the WT article not yours meleti, how many times I have heard b/s say to me personally they did not agree with the GB interpretation of the scripture in Matt 22:30, no one ran of the elders complaining what was said in private, now all this fear the GB is instilling into the congregation, is just dividing ones, making enemies out of friends and ones having to watch what they say in fear of being told they are having apostate thoughts or for some over zealous society ones apostate, and imagine if your not that popular with certain ones, good grief.
  The GB are the ones in fear, and is playing the fear card toward all.
  One can't have true friends anymore, and even family members would put you in, seen this happen probably thinking they are helping.
  I pray that there are some brothers in the writing department Jehovah is using to bring out certain points in WT articles to help those in the congregation that are spiritually minded and care to start to think and look to the scriptures search the scriptures and pray for truth.

• Reply by PhantomOfTheKingdomHall on 2017-10-25 18:09:37

  ”Quote- Meleti Vivlon said: What I was trying to say is that I do not believe everyone in the writing department and in other responsible positions in Bethel has been corrupted into buying the ticket that the Governing Body is to be obeyed as God’s only channel of communication and that all they teach is from Jehovah.- End quote
  I agree with that and appreciate that someone in the writing department managed to get the following out.”
  Hi. I’m new to this site, greetings. At the local translation centre one guy told visitors ”many new translators have so much respect for the literature, thinking it’s inspired, directly from God. But of course that’s not the case!”
  It is my hope that as we grow in numbers, we ”Phantoms” can play an important role.
  Love,
  one of the phantoms

Comment by on 2014-09-09 16:44:30

So, we're being told to avoid apostates at all cost. How are we then to apply the words of 1 John 4:1: "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world." And if inspired statements are to be tested, how much more so the uninspired! How do we do this? We put the teaching to the test of God's inspired Word and if it can't hold up to the canon,(rule), we reject it. Try proving to a householder at the door that the "other sheep" are an earthly group and see how far you get.

Comment by JimmyG on 2014-09-09 16:51:11

Excellent quotes Johnamos. I suspect though that the WT is applying quotes like these to other religions.

Comment by on 2014-09-09 18:28:32

Thanks for your encouragement, Meleti. Now, I sit in the hall and cringe as I listen to the brothers, (especially the young go-getters, bless their hearts), rely more on what the GB says than on what the Christ says.

Comment by on 2014-09-09 18:29:03

Quote- JimmyG said: Excellent quotes Johnamos. I suspect though that the WT is applying quotes like these to other religions.- End quote
Yeah, they expect those that they meet out in the door to door that belong to other religions to follow that counsel but if you try to apply it to making sure what the GB teach then the following applies:
[9-1-02 WT- Our humility could likewise be tested. How? Well, how do we react to organizational refinements? (Isaiah 60:17) Do we eagerly accept explanations of Bible truth as provided by “the faithful and discreet slave”? (Matthew 24:45-47; Proverbs 4:18)
[2-15-09 WT- Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?]
[11-15-09 WT- By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today. (Num. 16:1-3) On the contrary, we should cherish our privilege to cooperate with the slave class.]
And here you can substitute the “parishioners” for JW’s and the “clergy” for the GB.
[8-1-58 WT- “They (Irish Catholics) are taught that Bible knowledge is not necessary for Christians, only a strict adherence to and belief in the church and its religious leaders is all-important. To keep their flocks from reading Bible literature the clergy tell their that it is communistic. This seems to frighten them sufficiently so they will not investigate for themselves. Fear has a great hold on the people. People are afraid of what their neighbors, their friends, relatives and clergy might think if they were even so much as to read the Bible on their own. For centuries the clergy have dominated their lives, told them what they can read, what they should believe and do. To ask a sound religious question is a demonstration of lack of faith in God and the church, according to the clergy. As a result, the Irish people do very little independent thinking.” They are victims of the clergy and fear; but freedom is in sight.]
Quote- Anonymous said: We put the teaching to the test of God’s inspired Word and if it can’t hold up to the canon,(rule), we reject it.- End quote
Reading your reply and seeing the words “reject it” made me think of this I had saved:
[11-22-84 Awake- "An Open or a Closed Mind -- Which Do You Have,"
A necessary part of life is that we make decisions and reach judgments. But decisions made "without due examination" or judgments reached "on other grounds than reason or justice" are evidences of a closed mind. Having an open mind, on the other hand, means to be receptive to new information and ideas. It means being willing to examine and to evaluate information without a biased attitude. By retaining what is worthwhile and *****rejecting****** what is worthless, we can reach definite conclusions on a solid basis and still leave our minds open to further revision should additional information become available at a future time. A closed mind may indicate lack of knowledge. We may know so little about a subject, or have information so distorted or incomplete; that the facts necessary to reach proper conclusions are missing...A closed mind may betray a lack of interest in the subject or a reluctance to look into the matter. In fact, it could even be a sign of uncertainty or doubt. For example, if we are unable to defend our religious views, we may find ourselves lashing out against those who challenge our beliefs, not with logical arguments, but with slurs and innuendos. This smacks of prejudice and of a closed mind. A closed mind may also indicate a selfish desire to retain certain advantages that an open mind might cause us to lose...The apostle Peter's admonition "be sound in mind" includes, of necessity, having an open mind, for only an open mind can reach sound conclusions and make sound judgments. Some of the inhabitants of Beroea had such an open mind, because of them we read that "they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." -- 1 Peter 4:7; Acts 17:11.]
[8-22-78 Awake-"Do Others Do Your Thinking?”
Education teaches you how to think. Propagandists tell you what to think. True educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists hammer hard on their view and discourage discussion. Many times their true motives are hidden. They sift the facts, tell the favorable ones, and conceal the others. They distort and twist facts, specialize in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. Many fall easy prey because it takes no effort to feel, whereas thinking is hard labor. And the propagandist sees to it that his message is made to seem wise, the right, and moral one, and gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure -- so they say. Propagandists have little respect for people's thinking abilities. Proverbs 14:15 states: "A simple man believes every word he hears; a clever man understands the need for proof." (The New English Bible) Many today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they are submerged in. It is the easy way. Exercise for the muscles is hard work; exercising the mind is even harder…What about you? Will you let others think for you, or will you do your own thinking? Do your own, and "thinking ability itself will keep guard over you."]

Comment by Christian on 2014-09-10 02:39:50

" I find that brothers will often seek out help from a former elder bypassing the currently appointed ones"
I think this is very true Meleti.....and sad.
I know that I went to an ex elder with a difficult problem many years ago because I felt he was approachable. He had been softened by a nasty (and completely unscriptural) mauling by the P.O. which left him slightly embittered for a year or two.
Thankfully he regained his spiritual composure when he realized his qualifications as an "older man" were not conditional on the recognition of 'superiors'.
By regaining his composure I regarded him as qualified as he was before....in fact more so!
I have always had difficulty being shepherded by brothers with little or no life experience. That is one of the most appealing and endearing qualities of our Master.
He didn't stay in Heaven but came to Earth and exercised his "fondness for mankind" felt "pity for those skinned and thrown about"
"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin" - Heb.4:15
In this Jesus sets a most beautiful example for true elders today.
Take heart Anonymous because your qualifications do not come from men, but from YOUR Master.

Comment by Andy on 2014-09-22 16:59:38

Hello, I just wanted to know if any overall review on the article "Renounce Unrighteousness" was posted here on this blog.
I would have a number of remarks, some of them very disturbing to me. I just wouldn't like to make a duplicate comment, if any review exists and those points were raised, and I'd be interested in reading your review if you posted it.
Thank you

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-09-22 17:06:28

  Hi Andy,
  Here's the link to the article/post you're interested in. http://meletivivlon.com/2014/09/07/wt-study-jehovahs-people-renounce-unrighteousness/