[A Review of the September 15, 2014 Watchtower article on page 12]
“We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.”—Acts 14:22
“DOES it shock you that you can expect to face “many tribulations” before you gain the prize of everlasting life?” – par. 1, boldface added
The theme text speaks not of gaining everlasting life, but of entering into the “Kingdom of God”. Why do we change its application from “Kingdom of God” to “everlasting life”? Are these concepts synonymous?
Paragraph 6 says “For anointed Christians, that reward is immortal life in heaven as corulers with Jesus. For the “other sheep,” it is everlasting life on earth where “righteousness is to dwell.” (John 10:16; 2 Pet. 3:13)” [A]
According to JW doctrine, there are two rewards being put before Christians. A little flock of 144,000 will rule in heaven with Jesus. The rest, now numbering around 8 million, will live on earth. The 144,000 get immortality upon their resurrection. The rest will either be resurrected as part of the resurrection of the righteous or will survive Armageddon, having never died at all. This group is called the “other sheep’ and they will not be perfect (i.e., sinless) upon entry into the new world. Like the unrighteous who are also resurrected, they will have to work toward perfection which will only be achieved at the end of the thousand years, after which they will be tested before being granted the right to everlasting life already given to the anointed before Armageddon.[B] (Acts 24:15; John 10:16)
From w85 12/15 p. 30 Do You Remember?
Those chosen by God for heavenly life must, even now, be declared righteous; perfect human life is imputed to them. (Romans 8:1) This is not necessary now for those who may live forever on earth. But such ones can now be declared righteous as friends of God, as was faithful Abraham. (James 2:21-23; Romans 4:1-4) After such ones achieve actual human perfection at the end of the Millennium and then pass the final test, they will be in position to be declared righteous for everlasting human life.—12/1, pages 10, 11, 17, 18.
It is completely understandable and wholly Scriptural that those who will join Christ in heaven as kings and priests should undergo tribulation as he did. If Jesus “learned obedience” and was “made perfect” by “the things he suffered”, should his brothers, the sons of God, expect a free pass? If the sinless son of God had to be tested by the fires of persecution and tribulation, it follows that we sinners much also be made perfect that way. How else can God grant us immortality upon our resurrection?
But why do the “other sheep” of JW doctrine need to go through tribulation? To what end?
Consider the cases of Harold King and Stanley Jones, now both deceased. They went to China together where they were imprisoned in solitary confinement. King was of the anointed and served a five-year term. Jones was a member of the other sheep. His term ran for seven years. So King endured five years of a tribulation few of us can imagine and now resides in immortality in heaven—according to our doctrine. Jones, on the other hand endured two additional years of tribulation, and yet will still be imperfect (sinful) upon his resurrection and will have to work toward achieving perfection at the end of the thousand years, only then to be tested one final time before he can be granted everlasting life. However, his Chinese prison guards, having also died, will—again, according to our doctrine—be resurrected as part of the resurrection of the unrighteous and side by side with brother Jones work toward perfection; having never endured any qualifying tribulation as Jones did to get there. The only advantage Jones has over them—again, according to our doctrine—will be that he’ll have a sort of “head start” being a little closer to perfection whatever that means.
Does this make sense? More important, is it even remotely Biblical?
The Other Problem We Are Facing
Paragraph two makes the point that we are being and will be persecuted.
“Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours.” (Joh 15:20)
We are taught that we are special—the one truth faith. Therefore, we must be undergoing persecution. The trouble is that for the past half century, we have not. Having been a witness all my life, I can attest to the fact that we are all taught that there will come a day when we will be persecuted. My parents lived with this belief and died without ever seeing it fulfilled. We need to believe we are being persecuted for us to continue believing we are Jehovah’s chosen people. After all, if there is another group being persecuted for their faith in Christ, what would that make us?
I remember having to stand outside the classroom while the other kids sang the anthem, but I wouldn’t call that persecution. I don’t remember every being bullied over it. In any case, it pretty much ended when I hit 14. Times have changed and human rights have released us from problems involving conscription in most of the civilized world. Even in countries were some of our brothers are imprisoned, they allow us an exemption of alternate military service. However, because we would still be working for the military in some way, we do not allow our brothers that out.
We have a strange double standard in this, for we do not apply those same rules to the brothers working in the hotels in Vegas. If a brother is in the hotel union, he can work for the hotel/casino complex. He can be a waiter in one of the casino restaurants or a janitor that cleans the casino bathrooms, as long as he is not a member of the Gambling Union. Yet the people paying his salary are the same people paying the salary of the card dealers.
So it would seem that we may be creating an artificial situation of persecution.
Of course, Christians are being persecuted to this day. In Syria, ISIS has crucified a number of people for refusing to convert from Christianity to Islam? Are some of them Jehovah’s Witnesses? I haven’t heard. I don’t even know if there are Jehovah’s Witnesses in Syria. Whatever the case, for the millions of us who live in Europe and the Americas, we really haven’t known persecution in our lifetime.
How to get around this?
The article attempts to find other types of tribulation. It focuses on discouragement. Discouragement can be a challenging problem. It is often linked to depression and both are things suffered by people in every walk of life. However, it is not a problem unique to Christians. Be that as it may, is it tribulation?
Open your Watchtower library program and do a search on the word “tribulation” which occurs around 40 times in the Christian Scriptures. Using the Plus key, scan every occurrence. One thing will become apparent. Tribulation comes from without. The word in Greek is thlipsis and means properly “pressure or compression or a pressing together”. Discouragement is internal. It may and often does result from outside pressure (tribulation) but as such is the symptom, not the cause.
Rather than focus on the symptom, why don’t we seek out the true cause of the discouragement many feel? What tribulation is causing many of our brothers and sisters to feel discouraged? Are the many demands put upon us by the organization too great a load? Are we made to feel guilty because we are not doing enough to gain everlasting life? Is the constant pressure to compare ourselves with others only to come up short because unlike them we are not able to pioneer, the tribulation (pressure) that is causing us discouragement?
In short, is the tribulation we are experiencing and in which we take such pride as proof of our approved status before God something we ourselves have created?
Let us dwell on that as we prepare for this week’s Watchtower.
[A] For purposes of this study, we’ll ignore the fact that there is nothing in scripture to link “the other sheep” of John 10:16 with a class of Christian with an earthly hope. In fact, there is nothing in the Greek Scriptures that promotes the idea that the majority of Christians have an earthly hope.
[B] To the best of my knowledge, this doctrine is unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
ilovejesus333 Hi In the greek scriptures, the word immortal is only mentioned a few times. First it states that only God is immortal 1 Tim 6:16“who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, Then in 1 Corinthians 15 Paul talks about the bodies that they are to be clothed in at the resurrection.”For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality”. Eternal and everlasting are interchangeable Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting (aiōnion)life. The greek… Read more »
I wonder sometimes if we might be coming at this from the wrong angle. The meaning of many English words have changed radically, even diametrically, over the years. “Bully” and “nice” come to mind. Words are merely symbols–whether uttered or written–that represent realities. Words should always remain the servants of meaning and never become its masters. I think we need to look at the Scriptures to determine what, if any, difference there can be between “eternal”, “everlasting”, and “immortal”. To this end I’ve opened a new topic on DTT. See Eternal, Everlasting, and Immortal if you’re interested in joining the… Read more »
I think you could be on to something there Meliti, It appears I need to address my view on the meaning of Immortality again in view of the scripture at 1 Cir 15;53
As you say “Words should always remain the servants of meaning and never become its masters.”
Hi again Mark
OOPS forgot about that scripture 1 Cor 15;53
Back to the drawing board !!
I think the problem that ive got is not that there is two hopes heavenly and earthly im sure there is .but its the fact that the watchtower are choosing for themselves who fits each profile ..when the invitation to reach out for the heavenly hope or the earlier ressurection as paul called it .is open to all christians . And then its god who chooses on whom he his willing to bestow the heavenly reward for many are invited but few are chosen ..there may well be a limited number that will finally be ruling with christ .but at… Read more »
I love this quote you made Meleti: “After such ones achieve actual human perfection at the end of the Millennium and then pass the final test, they will be in position to be declared righteous for everlasting human life.” It made me realize how double our thinking as JW’s really is. I remember staunchly defending ourselves against my bible students in the past that JW definitely believe in faith based salvation. But really I was using the scriptures to defend that position, rather then the true position of the society. Reading quotes like this makes me realize that I was… Read more »
Love the love on this site – busy digesting this post and the comments – Thanks once again for your efforts here ALL of you !
In reference to the meaning of “tribulation”, notice this fuller definition of the Greek word, thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that “hems someone in”; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, “without options”) and carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is “no way of escape” (“hemmed in”). Considering your final questions, Meleti… Rather than focus on the symptom, why don’t we seek out the true cause of the discouragement many feel? What tribulation is causing many of… Read more »
The Organization focuses on their belief the the “great tribulation” of Rev. 7:14 is Phase One of the end, with Armageddon being Phase Two. For them, it is a future event tied to the attack on the Great Harlot. This distracts us from the real tribulation true Christians are undergoing now. I concur with you: The great tribulation is already underway.
I did not say it cant be done. I have absolute belief God can do what he says.You are putting words into my mouth
The apostle paul not only teachers there is a resurrection but he teaches “how” God gives us eternal life, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come? He goes not to describe how.
I asked you how?.If you can not answer from scripture. I will assume Paul’s inspired words are the truth.
You did not say it cannot be done, but the whole tenor of your comments leads the reader to the conclusion that you do not believe a fleshly body can have everlasting life. You quote Paul’s words but they are clearly directed to those who are the brothers of Christ. These receive the inheritance for dying and being resurrected in the likeness of his resurrection. They alone have authority to be sons of God. They rule as kings and priests. His words are not intended to apply to all of humanity which will be resurrected. That is why the sons… Read more »
Sorry Meleti but I don,t think you understand what I am trying to say.The message that was sent out in the first century is the same then as it is today.An invitation to repent and a hope of eternal life with an immortal body.It can’t be simpler. Wether you believe its in heaven to rule over people is secondary to the gospel.We are not given a choice to a destination. For all those who do not put faith in Christ, either because they lacked faith did not repent or simply did not hear the message, in the resurrection they do… Read more »
I agree with you concerning what the gospel of the good news is. We are also in agreement as to what the hope for Christians is. Since we are on the same page apparently, one wonders how we could get so far off track. What gave me the misconception concerning what I thought you were saying were these words from your original comment: “Maybe the reason why JWs find it difficult to imagine an heavenly hope is because they misinterpret the meaning of what a heavenly hope is.The bibles attention is not on a destination as such, but a resurrection… Read more »
Hi Mark C, Just wondering what the difference between immortality and everlasting life is. Wasn’t Adam created with everlasting life in mind. And he would have had it , if he remained obedient. Gen 2;17 The day you eat the fruit you will SURELY die. He wasn’t created immortal but had eternal life. Some may say then why did he die, well Adam’s eternal life depended upon his obedience to his creator. Now let’s take the angels! Were they created immortal? Then if so why will many of them be desroyed along with Satan at the end of the 1000… Read more »
Whats the difference?endless life is deathlessness,If we interpret everlasting as not endless life its not eternal and there is an end.Another Watchtower “Red Herring” To save arguing all christians wether so called anointed or other sheep are promised eternal life.Thats endless life. The Watchtowers idea that a 144000 have life within themselves, meaning they have self sustaining immortality has no basis in scripture.The only truly eternal immortal being is God.Only he has self sustaining life, he grants it to all his sons, The life we have within us comes from Gods spirit because the spirit gives life. John 6:63 T”he… Read more »
>>You Said “While flesh and blood is not immortal, depending on outside influences to sustain life, this doesn’t mean that it must die. Everlasting life is still possible.” How? And now you bring me back to the quote you felt was offensive. You can’t see it, so it cannot be, but you are cutting short the power of God. If he wishes to create a being in his image but made of flesh and blood and see that he never dies, then who are we to say it cannot be done? I think if we want to take this farther,… Read more »
No worries, apology accepted. I can’t see in scripture where humans are gradually brought to eternl life through gradual perfection? There are two resurrections. One to immortality “a heavenly body.” The other resurrection is a flesh and blood body, which cannot achieve immortality. In the first resurrection there is no second death ( no dying twice), but as for the second resurrection, people have died once, but may die again.If flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom, then the first resurrection not only implies first in order, but also describes a better resurrection an immortal one. In the millennium… Read more »
>>In order to gain deathlessness, they also must receive immortal bodies.Because flesh and blood is not immortal.
As I understand it, immortality is distinct from everlasting life. The angels live forever, provided they do not sin, but are not immortal. It may be that we differ only in the definition we each ascribe to “immortality”. For me it means having life within oneself, not depending on outside power to maintain life.
While flesh and blood is not immortal, depending on outside influences to sustain life, this doesn’t mean that it must die. Everlasting life is still possible.
Sorry a few corrections to my last comment.
“First we repent, and “our” spirit is renewed. I wrote “are”
What has the glorious “sons” have to do with it?. I wrote “son”
With all deepest respect Meleti, starting out with a defence “YOU are mistaken, because YOU know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God” (Mt 22:29) is arrogant, rude and an assumption like the rest of your comment.Which incidentally offers no scriptures to back what you are saying. You said “To imagine the solution lies merely with the body”When did I say that? First we repent, and are spirit is renewed Titus 3:5 ‘he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by… Read more »
It may be that I misread your previous comment, for I understood you to mean that those who are resurrected to eventual perfect human life must also have a different kind of body than Adam, a non-fleshly one. If that is not the case, then of course, my words were misapplied and I apologize.
I never quite understood the teaching that the great crowd would have to wait until the end of the 1000 year reign to be declared righteous for life; in Revelation arent they shown wearing their white robes just after Armageddon not at the end of the 1000 years, and this signifying a righteous standing by having their robes washed in the blood of the lamb? Rev 22:14 says this gives them the right to the tree of life.
Hi Life2come, regarding this “they shown wearing their white robes just after Armageddon” in fact the verses read that they were wearing these robes having survived the tribulations, not armageddon.
Rev.7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These dressed in long white robes—who are they and where have they come from?” 14 So I said to him, “My lord, you know the answer.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb!
Rev 7:15 speaking of the Great Crowd says: “That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them.” The New World Translation says “in his temple”. The Greek word for temple used at Rev. 7:15 is naos’ which means the inner sanctuary of the temple representing heaven itself. The reference in the New World Translation (reference bible) after temple is as follows: Or, “divine habitation (dwelling).” Gr., na•oi′, dative, sing.; Lat., tem′plo; J17,18,22(Heb.), beheh•kha•loh′,… Read more »
It certainly doesn’t add up the way the Watchtower teaches who the Great Crowd is. There is more doctrine – I should say lies – underneath the org’s teachings than what meets the eye. 1914 is a glaring doctrine, but many are more subtle. The early temple arrangement was a foreshadow of Christ’s Temple; both inhabited or made up of priests. The difference with Christ’s Temple is the priests (faithful anointed) are also actually THE Temple. (I would use italics if I had them) It is not a physical Temple, but priests in an arrangement slaving for God’s purpose to… Read more »
In par. 1, a reference is made to Rev. 12:12, which describes woe to earth as a result of casting Satan out of heaven. As the doctrine states that this happened in 1914, it seems tribulation experienced by Christians only started in 1914… a bit in contradiction with par. 2 where Jesus words are mentioned regarding expected tribulation that would start after He left and the paragraph indicates that it is Satan who is behind all that. In fact, as par. 3-5 shows, discussion what Paul had experienced, already shows that tribulation started soon after Jesus. It would have been… Read more »
Hi Christian Maybe the reason why JWs find it difficult to imagine an heavenly hope is because they mis interpret the meaning of what a heavenly hope is.The bibles attention is not on a destination as such, but a resurrection into a changed body. The problem with mankind isn’t that it needs an administration to get things right, although its a reasonable asumption. The problem with man is sin and death, The solution is first true repentance through a renewed spirit then finally a redeemed heavenly body.It can’t be simpler. Even Job contemplated a resurrection with a changed body. The… Read more »
Oops I meantt to say “The first century Jewish nation mistakenly thought the Kingdom was a literal admin so did not repent because they “did not” get it.
While your comments are true as regards the heavenly reward, we wouldn’t want to give the impression that the human body God created is inadequate to the task of living forever. Had Adam not sinned, his body would have continued. So it is sin that corrupted the body. Those who are resurrected to a restored earth under the rulership of Christ and his brothers will benefit from their administrative oversight and care. By the end of the thousand years, the sinless state of humanity will have been restored.
Meleti Our present bodily condition is the issue for people who struggle with the flesh. I have associated with JWs since I was six years old I am 47 now, I have been baptised for around 15 years.I have seen many friends’ come and go from the Org.Many suffer with guilt and mental illness ,choosing to keep away as they can,t live up to expectations.A few years ago, A brother, who, had a heart of gold and who loved God, committed suicide.He had been brought up as a witness but later on developed chemical addictions and suffered with homosexual feelings.No… Read more »
I can see the conflict this understanding creates. However, it is based on a faulty premise. The problem isn’t flesh, but fallen flesh. As Jesus said–and I use this with no disrespect intended–“YOU are mistaken, because YOU know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God” (Mt 22:29) The power of God is not restrained. Can he create a being of flesh and blood not tormented by our sinful yearnings? Of course. Adam was such a being. This does not mean that Adam could not sin, for he had free will, but his sin was a conscious choice. To imagine… Read more »
God’s word says Christians will be persecuted because of Christs name not Jehovah.
Exactly, and I agree with you on this point 100 percent. So why is it that the JW organization want to detract from Jesus name and focus on the name Jehovah, of which they are now bringing reproach upon by their actions today? Is it because they have taken up this name for themselves as a way of distinguishing themselves from all the other religious belief sytems at the expense of God’s saving hand Jesus Christ who has been exalted above all others in this part of the universe. Even when God had categorically stated that this was his beloved… Read more »
The two tier hope thing is a real red herring for JWs. Who is going where, who is to going rule over who and what? How many are there? Am I included? There are endless watchtower articles pushing this idea, when a few lines of scripture clarify something fundamental to all believers. In Revelation Jesus is talking to the congregation at Sardis. There are effectively two kinds of believers with potentially two destinies. To one group he says at Revelation 3:3 “Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent……. Rev 3:4 “Yet you have a… Read more »
Sorry I said ‘In Revelation Jesus is talking to the congregation at Sardis. There are effectively to kinds of believers with potentially two destinies.’
I meant to say “In Revelation Jesus is talking to the congregation at Sardis. There are effectively” two” kinds of believers with potentially two destinies.
I agree, markchristopher. I think that the appeal for many JWs of the two-tier system is that it means they don’t have to work so hard. It’s like a consolation prize or a prize for participating. Under this system, you don’t have to try quite as hard and you still get the chance to live in the new world where it will be a lot easier to overcome your sinful tendencies. I’ve found that for many, the idea they can now embrace a heavenly hope is received with misgivings. It’s like finding out that somebody changed the passing grade from… Read more »
What is more, Meleti, is the fact that Jehovah and his Son deal with an “organization”. So, the individual’s endurance and integrity are somewhat diminished because all one simply has to do is get on the ark. Besides, most of the Greek Scriptures don’t apply to those with an earthly hope anyway. We’re taught they do by extention, but this is a ploy to make one think he’s in the loop.
“I think that the appeal for many JWs of the two-tier system is that it means they don’t have to work so hard. It’s like a consolation prize or a prize for participating. Under this system, you don’t have to try quite as hard and you still get the chance to live in the new world where it will be a lot easier to overcome your sinful tendencies.” I found this remark painful. Ninety-nine percent of the heavy lifting in the JW religion is accomplished by those who have not been called to heaven but answer the call nonetheless to… Read more »
You make several valid points. When I have introduced the idea to some close friends that the heavenly hope is open to all, I’ve usually been met with resistance. I do not believe this is because they believe that the “anointed” have to work harder to qualify. Even friends who’ve given up everything to pioneer for close to 30 years have resisted the idea that they could be one of the anointed. So some–even many–it is for the reasons I gave above, but that is merely my opinion. For others, particularly those who are sterling examples of zeal in the… Read more »
Meleti/anonymous Just to elaborate on my above comment. The two tier system detracts from the simplicity of the message because it puts off the need to completely turn around from the fleshly man. I am a prime example. I thought I could wait until the new system to work on my personality traits, and anyway if I died before Armageddon, death would pay for my sins.The elders measured my spiritual progress by meeting and ministry attendance, commenting at meetings, ministry school etc.I thought that was the truth! It was not until years after my baptism I realised that when I… Read more »
That’s another weird thing about the two-tiered hope. The early Christians were all anointed, so we are told, strictly on a first-come first-served basis. Any old bonehead was heaven-bound back then but now, in the “last days”, for some reason the anointing process has become a matter of the choosing of the fittest.
Anderestimme Thats the impression I get too. Jesus ate with the dregs of society, the outcasts.Matt 2:17 I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” JWs and the Watchtower have a tendency to sugarcoat the first century church and the anointed. When we look closer they could be a right motley crew. You have James ticking off anointed christians for discriminating against the poor.They had fights and quarrels, envying the things they could not have. You have anointed christians disrespecting the Lords evening meal, eating and drinking before others.even getting drunk.The list goes on. Apart from the WTS… Read more »
Slightly off topic… I remember pioneering (I was about 13 or 14) and going on a study with a dear sister. This study was deemed as a “career Bible student” and the friends frequently quoted 2 Timothy 3:7 in connection with her. Anyways, the study got baptized and started to partake the same year. Boy was our congregation in a uproar!! They called the sister crazy, the elders studied with her and after 2 years she stopped partaking. But weirdly a few memorials after that she started to cry and sweat and the brothers would take her out of the… Read more »
GWIT, you’ve got some real horror stories there. We had some oddball partakers which no one, save one elder’s wife, got too upset about. The more I think about it, the more I want to stay home next year and have my own little family memorial, where issues of fear and misunderstanding won’t come up. I think people would just say I was crazy behind my back, but if my publicly partaking really could give some kind of witness, then it would be worth it to attend. It’s hard to analyze those factors without fear secretly trying to tip the… Read more »
Hi meliti, it’s me again. I would dearly love to believe what you say about these two classes of sheep. May I pose a couple of questions to you. If we are all in line for a heavenly hope why is there to be a new earth. What does the scripture mean “the meek will inherit the earth. If we all go to heaven does that mean Jehovah’s original purpose had been thwarted What does it mean about the ressuerection of the righteous and unrighteous I honestly value your opinion knowing the great work in providing us with a better… Read more »
Actually, I’ve been composing a post on this topic. But I can give you a brief illustration. Suppose a king commissioned his son to take over a piece of land for the purpose of receiving refugees from nations all over the earth. The son would rule these refugees, nurturing them back to health, educating them, ensuring their safety, and freeing them from the traditions and superstitions that had enslaved them. However, the son realizes that he cannot do the job himself. He needs an administration. Co-rulers to govern and care for the people. Should he bring the people in to… Read more »
I enjoyed that illustration Meleti. Isn’t it funny how you can acknowledge what are becoming increasingly obvious Bible truths by holding these scriptures in your mind, rolling them around, praying about them, yet not really grasping their full importance until you read a scripture in a different setting. When I read your reference to Matt.22:14 a small light-bulb went on! For some time now I have thought that the heavenly calling must naturally be a limited number but not necessarily a defined number. This is only right that a spiritual administration must have subjects and that the subjects would outnumber… Read more »
Indeed! You make a great deal of sense.
Just a thought: In general Christian denominations believe all or honest people will go to heaven. JWs believe only the selected few will go. As far as I can see, Jesus only told his apostles that they will be with Him. Revelation talks about 24 elders sitting on thrones. All others, 144.000 and great crowd are not displayed as sitting on thrones. My point is, if one would not have been brought up in a mainstream Christian denomination nor raised or educated as a JW, but purely read the bible as it is, would you come to the conclusion that… Read more »
Rev 5:10 in the New World Translation says: “and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” ——————————————————- But notice that all these other Bible Translations say either “on the earth” or “upon the earth”. Kingdom Interlinear Translation (Rev. 5:10 says:) “and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests, and they are reigning upon the earth”. New International Version (Rev 5:10 says:) “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the… Read more »
I agree with you. About all hve UPON or ON the earth. It is not the only “tweak” in (R)NWT in order to support a doctrine. On the DTT site I started a topic on this. After all, in all fairness, why would Jesus need 144000 persons to so-called co-rule with Him from heaven? They have run operations from heaven for ages, there are many loyal and strong angels to provide support. What He will likely need, is indeed priests and rulers on earth, loyal to Him and loyal to the kingdom. A bit like Moses did, when he appointed… Read more »
It makes sense that those chosen to be part of an administration to restore mankind etc would have some presence on Earth. Being given a spiritual body does not limit the use of materializing in a physical form as angels have done.
This would seem entirely practical to accomplish the Kingdom rule.
Even Jesus could use this ability perhaps?