We started Beroean Pickets thinking we’d be fortunate to find a dozen or so brothers and sisters willing to participate. How wrong we were! To date, the two sites have been viewed hundreds of thousands of times and visited by tens of thousands from over 150 countries and islands of the sea. We are overwhelmed by this response. Peter and James spoke of the “temporary residents” and “the twelve tribes that are scattered about”. Paul often referred to them as the “holy ones”. It seems evident that the scattering of holy ones is now worldwide.
The question that has been on our minds for some time is: Where do we go from here?
Avoiding a Repeat of History
We are Christians, drawn together by spirit, but without ecclesiastical denomination. "Christian" was the name given to our first century brethren, and it is the only name by which we care to be known. Our job as Christians is to declare the good news of the Christ until he returns. We cherish the hope extended by our Lord Jesus to be sons of God and are honored by the opportunity to become ambassadors substituting for him.
Yet now, in the 21st century, how can we best go about doing that?
Before we can answer questions about the future, we have to look at the past, else we will end up repeating the mistakes and sins of Christian history. We have no wish to become as just another Christian denomination.
“. . .Do YOU not know that YOUR bodies are members of Christ? Shall I, then, take the members of the Christ away and make them members of a harlot? Never may that happen!” (1Co 6:15 NWT)
We will not contribute to more of the harlotry that defines Christendom today. Though the billions of humans professing Christianity around the globe share the commission to preach the good news, their message has been perverted by organized religion to suit the needs of men. (By “organized religion” we mean religions organized under the control and leadership of ecclesiastical hierarchies that determine what is right and what is wrong.) These ones have fallen prey to the trap that ensnared the first human couple. Their followers prefer to obey men rather than God.
What we desire to do is to preach the good news of salvation, of the Christ, of the Kingdom of God, free of any denomination and free of the rule of man. We want to proclaim the Lord until he returns and to make disciples of him—not of ourselves. (Mt 28:19, 20)
We have no desire to organize nor set up a centralized governing authority of any kind. We take no issue with being organized per se, but when organization turns into government, we must draw the line. We have but one leader, our Lord Jesus Christ, who is more than capable of organizing his people into localized groups to carry out worshipful service, express love, encourage one another, and declare the good news. (Mt 23:10; He 10:23-25)
We have been expressly prohibited by Jesus from becoming leaders of the Christian congregation. (Mt 23:10)
Where Do We Go From Here?
Returning to our original question, it would go contrary to what we’ve just stated to make the decision for ourselves.
In Judge Rutherford, we saw where the rule of one man can take us. Thousands were deceived by the false expectation surrounding 1925 and millions have been denied the hope of becoming sons of God and serving in Christ’s heavenly kingdom. The formation of a Governing Body in the mid-1970s has done little to change the landscape. Of late, they have assumed a similar authoritarian stance to that of Rutherford.
Yet a decision has to be made by someone or nothing can be accomplished.
How can we let Jesus rule?
The answer is to be found in the inspired Christian record.
Letting Jesus Rule
When Judas’ office was to be filled, the decision wasn’t made by the 11 apostles even though they were indisputably appointed by Jesus. They did not go off into a closed room to deliberate secretly, but instead involved the entire congregation of anointed ones at that time.
“. . .During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (the number of people was altogether about 120) and said: 16 “Men, brothers, it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17 For he had been numbered among us and he obtained a share in this ministry. 21 It is therefore necessary that of the men who accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus carried on his activities among us, 22 starting with his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us, one of these men should become a witness with us of his resurrection.”” (Ac 1:15-17, 21, 22 NWT)
The apostles laid down the guidelines for candidate selection, but it was the congregation of 120 that put forward the final two. Even these were not selected by the apostles, but by the casting of lots.
Later, when there was a need to find helpers for the apostles (ministerial servants) they again put the decision into the hands of the spirit-guided community.
“. . .So the Twelve called the multitude of the disciples together and said: “It is not right for us to leave the word of God to distribute food to tables. 3 So, brothers, select for yourselves seven reputable men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary matter; 4 but we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 What they said was pleasing to the whole multitude, and they selected Stephen, a man full of faith and holy spirit, as well as Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 They brought them to the apostles, and after praying, they laid their hands on them.” (Ac 6:2-6 NWT)
Then again, when there arose the issue of circumcision, it was the whole congregation that got involved.
“Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Barnabas; they sent Judas who was called Barsabbas and Silas, who were leading men among the brothers.” (Ac 15:22)
We know of no Christian denomination that utilizes this Scriptural approach, but we can see no better way to let Jesus direct us than to involve the entire Christian community in the decision-making process. With the internet, we now have the tools to make this possible on a worldwide scale.
Our Proposal
We wish to preach the good news free from doctrinal deviation. It is the pure message that should be preached, not one laced with human interpretation and speculation. This is the commission of every true Christian. It is our mina. (Luke 19:11-27)
This we have strived to do with Beroean Pickets and Discuss the Truth. However, both sites – Beroean Pickets in particular – are undeniably JW-centric.
We believe the preaching of the good news would best be served by a site that is untainted by past affiliations. A site that is only and purely Christian.
Of course, our current sites will continue for as long as the Lord wills and as long as they continue to fill a need. In fact, we hope soon to see Beroean Pickets expanding into other languages. However, since our commission is to preach the good news to all the nations, not just one tiny minority, we feel a separate site will best accomplish that task.
We envision a Bible study site, with all the basic truths of the scriptures clearly laid out and categorized for easy reference. Perhaps there could be Bible study aids in the form of downloadable electronic copy, or even in printed form. Another option would be an anonymous one-on-one chat feature, such as is commonly used by corporations to provide on-line tech support. In our case we would be providing support of the scriptural and spiritual kind. This would allow for a larger community to directly engage in the preaching and disciple-making work through the site.
This site would be without affiliation to any denomination. It would be a teaching site only. To reiterate what was stated above, we have no desire to form yet another religion. We’re quite content to be in the one that Jesus started two thousand years ago and which he still leads.
As you can see, this would require a lot of work.
We are few and of limited resources. As Paul did, we have been funding this work with our own capital and our own time. It has been our honor and joy to be able to contribute what little we have toward doing the Lord’s work. However, we have pretty much reached the limit of our resources. The harvest is great, but the workers are few, so we are begging the master of the harvest to send in more workers. (Mt 9:37)
Investing Your Mina
Each of us has been given a commission to preach and make disciples. (Mt 28:19, 20) But each of us is different. We have been given different gifts.
“To the extent that each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God’s undeserved kindness that is expressed in various ways.” (1Pe 4:10 NWT)
Our master has given us all a mina. How are we to make it grow? (Luke 19:11-27)
We can do so by contributing our time, skills and our material resources.
The Question of Money
There is no glory in possessing a wonderful, life-altering message and then hiding it under a bushel. How are we to let our light shine? (Mt 5:15) How can we make people aware of this valuable resource of unbiased Scriptural truth free from the confines imposed by organized religion? Should we rely solely on word of mouth and passive search engine hits? Or should we take a more proactive approach, like Paul standing up in the Areopagus and publicly preaching “an unknown God”? There are many modern venues open to us to advertise our message. But few, if any, are free.
There is a much deserved stigma attached to the request for funds in the name of God, because it has been so widely abused. On the other hand, Jesus said:
““Also, I say to you: Make friends for yourselves by means of the unrighteous riches, so that when such fail, they may receive you into the everlasting dwelling places.” (Lu 16:9 NWT)
This shows that the unrighteous riches have their use. By their proper use, we can make friends with those who can receive us “into the everlasting dwelling places.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses are brought up with the idea that we must preach from door-to-door to be saved. When we learn that there are key doctrines of our faith that are false, we are conflicted. On the one hand, we need to preach. This is part of the DNA of any true Christian, not just those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, we want our preaching to be free from false doctrine. We want to further the true message of the good news.
We who have founded these sites have felt no misgivings about donating the monies we once gave to the Watchtower Society to fund our current work. It is our belief that others will feel similarly. However, it is justifiable should they be concerned about the funds being misused. Again, we want to avoid the mistakes of the past (and the present). To that end, we will be open as to how the funds are being used.
The Need for Anonymity
While willing to be a martyr for the Lord if called upon, a Christian should not carelessly nor brazenly face the lion. Jesus told us to be as cautious as serpents [afraid of being stepped on] and as innocent as doves. (Mt 10:16)
What if those who oppose us try to use the tool of a frivolous lawsuit simply to discover the identity of the ones publishing this good news? They could then, as they have in the past, use the weapon of excommunication, aka “disfellowshipping”, (See Awake Jan. 8, 1947, pg, 27 or this post.) to carry out persecution.
While expanding this ministry, we need to ensure that what is published is protected under copyright law. We also need to make sure that frivolous legal action cannot be used to backtrack funds to individuals. In short, we need the protection of Caesar’s law to ensure anonymity, and defend and legally establish the good news. (Phil. 1:7)
The Survey
We do not know if the ideas and plans just expressed conform to God’s will. We do not know if they will meet with Christ’s approval. We believe the only way to determine that is to seek the direction of the spirit in this matter. This, short of divine revelation, can only be achieved by getting input from the whole of the spirit-directed community of the “holy ones” who are “scattered about”.
Therefore, we would like ask you all to participate in an anonymous survey. If this proves to have the Lord’s blessing, it may well be the tool we use to continue to seek his guidance, for he doesn’t speak through any one of us as some type of modern-day “Generalissimo” nor does he speak through a committee, a Governing Body, as it were. He speaks through the body of Christ, the temple of God. He speaks through all. (1 Cor. 12:27)
We would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for supporting us these past years.
Your brothers in Christ.
The Survey is now closed. Thanks to all who participated
Archived Comments
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Comment by donotforgetus on 2015-01-30 18:16:42
Meleti,
Are you proposing a loose confederation of Christians led by democratic vote or are you proposing a new religion separate and apart from Jehovah's Witnesses?
As always, with deep respect.
LauraReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-01-30 19:12:00
Hi Laura,
And here I thought I'd explained myself so nicely. :)
We're not proposing a new religion at all, but a return to the original one Christ set up. In the examples from the article relating to acts of the apostles, while it may appear to have been a democratic process, it was in fact, a spiritual one.
Hope that clarifies matters.
Your brother,
Meleti
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-01-30 19:15:37
To further clarify, this return to the Christianity that Christ instituted would require us to be apart from Jehovah's Witnesses, but we already are, even if we attend meetings. One cannot be a true Christian while knowingly holding to false teachings and doctrines of men. What existed in the first century were congregation that were autonomous in the sense of being without a centralized human authority. However, eyes of faith will reveal to the true believer that they were not autonomous at all, but governed by the central authority that is the Christ who leads by holy spirit.
Reply by donotforgetus on 2015-01-30 20:18:48
Meleti,
I hope Jehovah's answer, whatever it may be, brings you peace.
With respect,
Laura
Comment by Alex Rover on 2015-01-31 01:03:36
If our position is not clear from this article, please re-read "Gathering True Worshippers": http://meletivivlon.com/2015/01/20/gathering-true-worshippers/
Even though we are commanded to preach and baptize, we can't baptize anyone unto ourselves, but only in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So every religion is sectarian and seeks to divide the body of Christ.
Our idea is to empower self-organization in Christian Freedom. Not to draw followers after ourselves, but to encourage others to become followers of Christ. That's what Meleti meant by returning to the one that Christ set up. Not claim that there is any group that actually returned to Christ's way - but as individuals making up the body of Christ that is 'scattered' until Jehovah re-gathers us at the end of the great tribulation.
Self-organization means that Christians can themselves choose who is good association and meet up with like-minded believers such as in private homes.
Self-organization means that Christians can themselves preach the message. Instead of becoming a "printing company", we could help prepare material which the Christian is free to choose to use or not choose in their ministry if they feel the message is in line with Scripture. They could print it themselves and distribute.
It also means non-judging: we have to leave it up to Christ who is a sheep. Not by association with us or even agreeing with what we say, but only in the eyes of Jehovah we are worthy to be his own, so we each have a responsibility of our own. Of course we have the individual duty to choose good association, but we can't judge those who choose to associate with others or without us for personal reasons.
Then there's the matter of translation. Many have offered to translate articles because they feel there is a great need for up-building material in their language. We can't properly organize this on the WordPress.com-hosted site because we can't install plugins here, but with some legal effort to protect our anonymity we can purchase hosting and our own installation with all bells and whistles to make the site better for everyone.
About contributions: Russell once had a conversation with a minister who was shocked to find out that he did not 'beg for money'. We don't want to beg either. Jehovah will provide to help us do more than we can on our own, IF this is his will. What Russell explained to the minister was that if the work he was doing was in accord with God's will, people who supported his efforts would actually come to him and ask how they might contribute a little. The majority of contributions that we are looking for are actually going to be non-financial. We will look to the community for help with translation and editing/review. Self-organization may mean that you open up your own home to meet with your friends and worship together (like family worship with friends), or that you contribute by printing your own handouts in the preaching work.
And we've actually thought about how Jesus used all contributions for giving to the poor. But we are not equipped to do charity work on any scale yet, but if at any point we were able to organize a charity mission - we feel that's a proper way to spend money. The Watchtower Society is using all funds to promote itself and accumulate treasures on earth in the form of real estate, stocks, etc. As Christians we should be known for our love. How do we help the poor, orphans, etc.? We can all contribute by ourselves to charities that really help, but the best charity comes out of your own hand and is unknown to others.
Since we really enjoy writing and researching, and we learn from Scripture that we each should use our gifts to the benefit of others, we felt like we can increase our efforts. We are reminded of the parable of the talents, and we certainly hope to double what the Master has entrusted us with. While we are very excited about the ideas and plans we have to reach more hearts with Christ, Meleti felt strongly about openly sharing our plans with the community, so that holy spirit would be allowed to operate through all participants.
We hope that you make your voices heard loud and clear. Share your thoughts, your concerns, your ideas, your hopes with us. As part of the body of Christ, let us know if you think we are keeping in line with the direction of the body as a whole.
I want to share one last thing in this comment. I have been bottling up so many thoughts and emotions for years - and I had no way and no freedom to express myself all this time. Even my writing skills were not good enough (by far) to compose a decent article. I always had been a science-geek and undervalued the arts and languages for far too long. Finally Meleti and Apollos gave me a chance to express myself in some articles. They have been such an amazing help to me personally.
I am so thankful for this, and for this amazing community of visitors. Everyone here has truly MAGNIFIED my joy and faith. Your sweet comments, thoughtful words and love really shows! When I write and I see Scripture openly discussed it really makes me happy in a way that is hard to describe. Personally I just wish to continue to apply myself and share in this joy with all of you. In whatever way or form that may be, but I am already very happy - no matter what happens in the future. I have my 'pearl of great value' and nobody can take that away. My faith is mine and nobody can take it.
I love you all so much,
Alex RoverReply by donotforgetus on 2015-01-31 07:38:18
Alex Rover, may you have peace.
With respect,
Laura
Comment by agapeheartvisions on 2015-01-31 09:23:46
Brothers and Sisters, I wish to go on record saying that I support you in your endeavors. I am also willing to do any proofreading, editing and/or research that might be needed. I also like the idea of meeting in private homes as we used to do as JW's. Would it be possible to offer my home as a meeting place (for those in my area) I do not see this as a "NEW" religion. I see it as a RETURN to what Christ established and what Christ taught.
I have actually left the JW religion and personally feel that it's not about a "religion", but rather a way of life, Jesus Christ, being "the way the truth and the life"
May Jehovah/Yahweh richly bless you in your endeavors and if it be according to His Holy will, I pray he use you and me to His glory.
AGAPE ALL!Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-01-31 11:10:13
Opening your home to be used for Christian gatherings is very much in keeping with the first century model. See Ro 16:3-5; Col 4:15; Phm 1:1-2 Many would like to do this, but the current climate in the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is like working under ban. However, if you are not concerned about that, feel free to publish your address here so that perhaps others in your area will be able to use it to meet together. Of course, there have been documented cases of elders staking out homes of Christians wanting to meet together so as to identify congregation members whom they can later accuse of apostasy. So caution is recommended by our Lord. (Mt 10:16)
Comment by donotforgetus on 2015-01-31 12:35:06
To all here,
The first century model was face to face fellowship established by Christian men who had proven their love and spirit anointing. The Apostles took the lead, they in turn appointed others to take the lead in the congregations.
Should I truly drive up to an address of someone I have never met and have no real idea of their beliefs, or their moral trustworthiness, and walk in for spiritual fellowship?
Respectfully,
Laura
Comment by Peter on 2015-01-31 13:35:11
i have an idea, it would be good to first meet in skype or in google hangouts that way, you can build confidence in who we are,getting to know eachother, and to find out what we stand for. and in time go into home meetings...its a way to break the ice first. I peronally love this going back to how it was done. It's not about a new religion with a title but its a community of believers a family. All together in fellowship learning from one another proving all things through the scriptures. one faith one baptism one hope. all to the glory of our loving father..also phone calls too help it's another way to getting to know one another. Maybe making a list of brothers to find out who is like minded to find out who's in the area. I will start by saying i live in the springfield mass area, any one in this neck of the woods who go in this site, I would glady give my number to talk and meet.
Reply by donotforgetus on 2015-01-31 13:44:03
Peter, I think your suggestion is a good one.
With respect,
Laura
Comment by umbertoecho on 2015-01-31 14:13:55
I am willing to donate financially and in any other way that is helpful. I only hope that this does not become the very thing I had to flee from a few years ago. I don't think it will become that...........but we are weak and as such, we tend to get above ourselves.
As long as this site remains as clear and honest as it has done in the past. I will support it.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-01-31 14:27:17
Thank you, umbertoecho. It is feedback from people like you that will help us keep it that way it is, and with God's blessing, improve it still further.
Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2015-01-31 17:31:53
Amen to all of the above....Including Laura's cautionary feelings and comments!!
And thank you one and all for the fine research and insightful thoughts. May the Lord Jesus bless all of you with love and the strength to endure all that he was given by the Father of us all!
sw
Comment by agapeheartvisions on 2015-01-31 18:19:51
As one commentator said, I'm happy to talk over the phone, get to know who you are, perhaps even meet on Skype. (I have to get set up) Perhaps even meet at a coffee shop or other place of business, (Public enough to be safe, quiet enough for serious conversation, perhaps even a library)
Incidently. I live in Beaumont, Texas.
Agape!Reply by peter on 2015-01-31 20:34:41
maybe we can be the first of many agape if you want, I can give you my email address and go from there if you wish.
Reply by agapeheartvisions on 2015-01-31 23:31:39
Hello Peter. That'll be fine. Give me your email addy and my husband and I will et in touch. AGAPE!
Reply by peter on 2015-02-01 00:07:18
my email is pquin7@gmail.com..shalom
Comment by JSYK on 2015-01-31 19:01:21
I look forward to following the progress of this work...I feel that there is a blessing for following the example of Christ Jesus and his faithful early followers. I am not interested in an opposition to JW group however. So far I have not detected this desire, thus my interest.
Comment by stonedragon2k on 2015-01-31 19:07:48
Hi Meleti
I have for a long while had a burning desire to do what you propose.
I am also thrilled that you want to make a break from WT. I was wondering how long you were prepared to wear clothes that don't fit.
Meeting up is a good idea. I got to meet a few brothers through forums. Remarkably one brother lives less than a mile from me and we used to chat on the forums all the time. The same could be true for others here as well.
I have two caveats
a. The Society could try to infiltrate our forums as part of 'theocratic warfare' with a view to either sabotage the conversations or to gain the trust of brothers with a view of outing them. How can this be prevented?
b. What do you propose about topics that are divisive? I'm thinking along the lines of say the Trinity or the one you and I personally disagree upon regarding the pre-existence of Jesus? Will you be setting down a baseline? If you do, then what are the dangers of this? Personally, I do not find anywhere in the Gospel that one has to accept Jesus as God Almighty or pre-existent. Therefore I would not press the issue. There have been few subjects that have DIVIDED Christian against Christian and I think it is a ploy of the devil, because God never has asked his servants to make a stand on the issue.
i have lots of other questions/observations but these are the first two that come to mind.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-01-31 19:43:58
To answer your first question, I don't know how much of a danger this is. It essentially requires a Jehovah's Witness to abandon the beliefs he has about avoiding dishonesty and hypocrisy. However, if someone is duplicitous enough to do this, it is hard to guard against.
As to the second question, I see no problem. Each Christian must decided for himself/herself how to apply the Bible counsel regarding fellowship. It is not for some "church authority" to do so. Were we to go beyond the things written, we would be falling prey to the hubris of organized religion--a trap we vehemently wish to avoid.
Comment by Truthseeker on 2015-01-31 23:53:16
I've wanted to leave the witnesses for awhile now. I feel so much closer to the truth reading the Bible on my own than I do from reading the materials they provide. The main problem for me is my daughter, who can't remember not being at the Kingdom Hall. She feels that anything said that might seem critical to the "organization" is also critical to Jehovah (as the watchtower has so often said.) I don't know how to go about teaching her about the Bible (not as witness-bashing, but from the beginning with truth in mind) without some kind of a framework to follow. If I understand correctly the type of site you're discussing could provide that for those of us who don't have time to put together a whole study guide, or for those newly interested who want an approach that is not doctrinal. I commend you for your ambition, and I whole-heartedly look forward to what is to come.
Reply by Silas-silvanus on 2015-02-01 04:35:29
Friends. While I admire the spirit behind what you are planning, I feel that there is no way to avoid the weeds that have been sown in amongst the wheat. As a dear friend of mine who was a gillead missionary for many years said: that given enough time even JW's would become as corrupted as the catholics. He passed away many years ago but his words ring truer then ever for me now.
Im afraid that there is no real way of avoiding future corruption if you are to organise things on a global or multilingual scale. In the end the ones with the power of the printed word , or those in charge of the web content have all the say.
Also ; once someone has been given authority over what others are to read then it is an easy step to take on the authority of what others are to think, believe and do. Thats how we got in this mess in the first place.
Remember that the only enemy that Truth has is Authority. Those who exercise authority over us can dictate to us the truth.
Comment by kev c on 2015-02-01 04:03:34
We are already meeting together in my area . In private homes where we discuss a pre determined chapter of the bible in depth . Its been very good and encouraging. There are no bible teachers .dominating the study its just a discussion its amazing what we have learned . I am not interested in setting up a religion in opposition to jehovahs witnesses although they do very often come up in conversation at our meetings only for the fact that we tend to find them at odds with scripture week in week out . The purpose of the meeting is to increase our knowldge of gods word .and to encourage one another .. . One point though we dont have to worry about being spotted by any member of the jws religion because we are not in thier religion .anymore . They have no hold on us we are free. And sooner or later you brothers and sisters are going to have to make a choice . Revelation 18 v4 john 8v32 . Kev c
Comment by menrov on 2015-02-01 07:41:47
Hi Meleti, your efforts (together with Alex and Apollos) to help the many readers with biblical doctrines, clarifications etc have proven to be vary valuable. Not only the contents but also the freedom to participate in the discussion and share views, without being scared to be bullied or criticised. I also understand that this success triggers a feeling of "what else can we do to help others, to spread the good news".
Your proposal seems a logical step. Nevertheless, I do see some risks or potential issues as well that might impact future success:
1 - the bible is the authority but we all know that bibles differ, translations differ. And as such, biblical views differ. In other words, who will decided on the views that will be published and that could be used for personal study or with others? Even on DTT site, some topics have multiple pages of comments, sometimes without a joint conclusion or agreement on the topic.
The new setup must have a clear policy that specifies who determines on what material is good enough to be published.
2 - The people registered to the site can offer themselves to help others to read, understand or study the bible. And although there is no central organisation, the site might become a hub for people offering bible support and people seeking that support. There is a risk in that the people running the site cannot control who is meeting who and in case a user commits an offense, authorities might believe there might be some accountability or responsibility with the people behind the site.
In other words, the setup must mitigate this risk.
3 - It is good to open the opportunity for donations. I recommend that any donation is made to setup and operate the site ONLY and that person who donates understand this principle and waives all current and future claims etc etc. My point is, I think it is good the avoid much commitments between the person that donates and the recipient of the donation. Just the purpose is shared.
The objective of the site is to preach the good news and not particularly to explain doctrines by the WBTS. However, I think that most visitors of the site will likely be linked to a denomination. I therefore suggest to have the following sections on the sire:
General Bible Topics, JW Doctrines, Catholic Doctrines, Reformist, Evangelists etc.
This way, any person from mainstream Christendom can use the site to understand the doctrines of his current denomination, the view of the bible on that doctrine and other encouraging topics in the bible he/she might be interested in or was not aware of.
So, in summary, I like to support the idea (financially, time, skills), provided ample attention is given to the points mentioned (and points others might raise). All to avoid pratical mistakes or generation of undesired risks.
As a footnote: I understand the risks but there is much to be said to use real names on the new site. Jesus did not hide himself, nor did the apostles. We want to preach an honest view on bible topics, free of any hidden agenda's. In that concept, the use of real names is I believe desirable.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-01 12:58:47
Hi Menrov,
Good points all.
1. It is the reader who determines what will be studied locally. There will always be those who disagree with any interpretation or understanding we expound. Trinitarians will disagree with the role that we explain Christ serves. Those who disagree are free to express themselves via the sites we provide, and the readers are free to determine what to accept and what to reject. In the end, it is the spirit of truth that guides each one.
2. We provide information only. We do not organize nor direct any type of congregation either local or world wide. Whether that leaves us open to litigation, I cannot say, but I for one will not stop speaking what I understand is the truth from God's word for fear of being sued.
3. I would not want to preemptively limit how funds are utilized. For example, a major reason for asking for donations is to publish the good news by the means most recommended by the spirit-led majority. However, any future dispersion of funds would have to have the approval and backing of the congregation.
You make a number of valid suggestions which we will be discussing to be sure.
Thank you for your prayerful thoughts and insights.
Comment by on 2015-02-01 11:55:51
Hello Meleti
This is lovely.
I would rather much read, debate and natter about the things read and learned in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus rather than anything else.
It is more important.
For ages I have simply yearned and followed answering things the way I see them, after trying to get the meaning and spirit of the meaning of a Scripture or teaching. And so,this is the little path I have started to follow.
And it is very nice.
And rather than following anything manmade (including the compare/contrast of man's interpretation about things (including religious and/or organisations), let's just pray and really peer into the words that we have been blessed to read. And then we can share with one another and those beyond this website, who might come here and see all the wonderful things that others are posting - there is such a wealth of information you and your readers have and share.
As I regularly say these days - keep focused on Jehovah. And follow what Jesus said and taught. It's quite simple.Reply by brendaevans32 on 2015-02-01 13:22:15
I am so sorry it came up with anonymous - it's me, Brenda Evans from the UK writing. Sorry guys.
Reply by kev c on 2015-02-01 13:46:55
Dear sister Brenda . We will have to find a way to meet up .your not that far from us . Kev .
Comment by stonedragon on 2015-02-01 16:34:00
KeV c or Brenda are either one of you living in London?
Reply by kev c on 2015-02-02 14:10:47
Sorry mate miles away . up north kev
Comment by stonedragon on 2015-02-01 17:02:38
Hi Meleti
I think you should start small and keep the focus for Witnesses.
For a couple of reasons.
A. Jesus stated with his own. There are plenty of Witnesses sighing and groaning and these need our attention first. In my limited observations there are plenty of other Christian groups facing the same issues we are. It would seem to me there is a calling out from these groups individuals like ourselves who will help those in their own vineyard. In the finale Jesus will gather everybody to himself.
B. If you leave the door to wide open potentially you will invite a lot of trolls and those that are not content to respect other views and who will see it as their mission to convert, bulky and intimidate.
C. Trying to save all, might end up saving none.
D. Do you really want to get bogged down with debates about the Trinity and Hellfire. There are so many varying views on this in Christendom that these issues are almost impossible to address. These debates have raged for thousands of years and it would be a stretch of the imagination to believe we could add anything to the debate. Remember it may be that God allows them to believe the lie, that being the case what could we do?
One way I think would be of a great help is to invite like minded Christians who run various websites to enter the discussion. I can think of loads and in this way you get a scholarly contribution rather than rantings of individuals who would be better off learning rather than teaching. The later comment is not made in a spirit of pride.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-02 08:11:11
Those are good points stonedragon. The new site will not be a discussion site. We have BP for that in a limited way and Discuss the Truth to more fully explore topics. We do not want to have the message that the new site publishes watered down nor waylaid, so we will likely have the commenting feature disabled, but will have a contact page for feedback from the community so that we will continue to be held accountable for the accuracy of what we publish.
Comment by WT Study: ‘Listen and Understand the Meaning’ | Beroean Pickets on 2015-02-02 08:31:54
[…] YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE SURVEY IF YOU HAVEN’T ALREADY DONE SO BY CLICKING THIS LINK. FOR A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF WHY WE ARE MAKING THE SURVEY, CLICK HERE. […]
Comment by Gogetter on 2015-02-02 14:32:07
I agree with many of the points stonedragon made.
I have been an avid reader of this site for sometime and value your articles pointing out the scriptural errors of the the Watchtower study articles. This has given me and I suspect thousands of other seasoned Witnesses a place to truly "examine all things and hold fast what is fine" although we must do so secretly we can have an influence within the congregation.
I know what you brothers propose comes from a pure heart as followers of our Master Jesus, but may I remind you this is how CT Russell started.
May I suggest you are currently engaged in a most important ministry, one focused on the Lords sheep trapped in a worldwide congregation that has "organizationally" in many ways left the true teachings of God's word and supplanted Jesus role with their own, sincerely believing they are doing God's will in ALL areas.
Jesus could be directing you in helping to adjust the congregation from within, as brothers and sisters truly reason from the scriptures, find there way to this Oasis of respectful Bible discussion.
Many will begin to act on what they learn in their personal lives and others will see their humble attitudes in truly being footstep follows of Christ to the Glory of Jehovah God.
I hope no matter what you decide to do in the future, you brothers will continue the focus of Borean Pickets for the benefit of your fellow brothers Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.
Peace Be Upon You BrothersReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-02 15:38:27
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, Gogetter. It is very much our intention to continue the work we've started with Beroean Pickets and to expand it to other language groups. It is evident from initial results from the survey that the majority feel as you do and are willing to lend what support then can to this effort. We will have to see where the spirit leads us.
Comment by Gogetter on 2015-02-02 14:34:30
Sorry should have spelled Beroean correctly !
Comment by InNeedOfGrace on 2015-02-02 14:57:06
I definitely support the idea of going further with what we have. A lot of the ones you have helped removed the scales which covered our eyes are now left without a true spiritual home. While it's true that now I am way more broad in who I consider spiritual family, I do yearn for strong men who I can look to for spiritual counsel in my life, for friends to grow together with in Christ. There is only so much doctrinal discussion you can do. We need to go beyond this.
Comment by stonedragon2k on 2015-02-02 17:17:02
Hi Meleti I've just sent you an email, but I'm not sure if my Gmail is working. Can you let me know if you got it?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-02 17:37:43
I haven't received anything yet.
Comment by smolderingwick1 on 2015-02-04 14:04:25
ZIONS Watch Tower AND HERALD OF CHRISTS PRESENCE.
PITTSBURGH, PA., OCTOBER, 1883. NO. 3.
OUR SECT.
"Webster defines sect to mean “A part cut off,” “Hence a body of persons who have separated from others by virtue of some special doctrine, or set of doctrines, which they hold in common.”
"Since we hold to a set of doctrines delivered to the saints by Jesus and the Apostles, and since we separate and cut ourselves off from all other religious jurisdiction and control, therefore it follows that we are a SECT. We “separate from sinners” and “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.” (‘Eph. 5:11‘; ‘2 Cor. 6:17‘). Because there is no concord between Christ and Satan, nor between a believer in Christ and an unbeliever in his ransom and Lordship, therefore we obey the Lords command, “Come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean, and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” (‘2 Cor. 6:17,18‘).
"In doctrine we hold firmly to the glad tidings preached by Jesus and explained by the Apostles, and will receive none other, even though it should be delivered by an angel from heaven. It is briefly stated by Paul thus: “I delivered unto you first of all, that which I also received [first of all], how that Christ died for OUR SINS according to the Scriptures.” (‘1 Cor. 15:3‘). This is the basis; and built upon it, is our realization that we are justified and cleansed from all sin in Gods sight, by his offering or sin-sacrifice who “died the just for the unjust.” Realizing this, “we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins.” (‘Eph. 1:7‘). All who accept of their share in this atoning sacrifice are properly termed Christians.
"This was the faith of the early church. True, they progressed beyond these first principles to the use of the “strong meat,” and to a comprehension, with all saints, of the deep things of God; but the “babes in Christ,” and those “who, by reason of use, had their senses exercised,” were all one family—“all one in Christ Jesus.” The more advanced in grace and doctrine bore the infirmities of the weak, each and all seeking to grow in grace and knowledge more and more. Where this apostolic rule was observed there could be no sect, no division in the body. It was only when error began to develop in the congregations that Paul wrote to some: I hear that there are divisions (sects) among you, and I partly believe it; for it is evident from what I learn of the worldliness and error coming in among you, that there would of necessity be divisions; for those true to the Lord could not have fellowship with such unfruitful works of darkness, but must rather reprove them. (‘1 Cor. 11:18,19‘).
"But while divisions were objected to in the true church, while all the apostles taught that there was one Lord, one faith, one baptism and one body—church of Christ—yet this church was a sect itself—a split off from the Jewish church—which was cast off and left desolate, and it was also separated from the world. It was “the sect everywhere spoken against.” (‘Acts 28:22 Thus, we see, that Christians are a sect or separated class—separate from the world—separate from sinners—separate from all others, in that they accept of Jesus, and salvation through his blood. But there should be no schism or division of this sect; all who are of it should be one. There is one fold and one Shepherd. (‘1 Cor. 12:25‘).
"It is not remarkable that Satan should seek to divide and separate the sheep and to put up fences, such as the denominational creeds prove to be, which would hinder some of the sheep from following the Shepherd into green pastures of fresh and living truth. This would be but wisdom on his part. But it is strange that he should be able to fetter the reason of so many, that they should think it a mark of spirituality to say, I am of Luther, a Lutheran; I of Calvin and Knox, a Presbyterian; I of Wesley, a Methodist, and so on; while Paul, on the contrary, to some of his day, who were in danger of this spirit of sectarianism, said: While one saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Peter, are ye not carnal? Is it not in direct opposition to the spirit of Christ to think or act thus? “Is Christ divided?” Did Paul or Peter or Knox or Calvin or Wesley or anyone else than Christ die for your sins and redeem you? They, as servants of Christ and the church, should be esteemed very highly for their works sake, but to name the Bride after any other than the Bridegroom is manifestly improper.
"Oh, that all could see that in Gods sight there is but one church—whose names are written in heaven—and that God cannot and does not sympathize with or recognize any split in the real church. He does not recognize the narrow creeds in which so many of the sheep are confined and starving. As we have shown, he has placed but one fence around his fold. Inside of it there is plenty of room, both for the lambs and the fully matured sheep of Christ, to feed and grow continually."
swReply by stonedragon2k on 2015-02-05 01:02:36
......and your point is?
Reply by smolderingwick1 on 2015-02-05 11:40:38
And her I thought Russell had explained it all so nicely :)
Comment by stonedragon2k on 2015-02-05 01:25:34
Hi Meleti,
I remember how I felt when I realised the TTAT.
Empty, cold, worthless, depressed, ANGER, BITTERNESS, confused, physically sick
I was all the above and more. What I was not, was 'happy'.
Is the experience of any others here?
It is a shocking thing, to realise that all your hopes and dreams are built on sand.
So I say, the site should aim to comfort and lead people to Christ. To counter those emotions I mentioned.
I have observed that brothers who realise TTAT end up
(a) Abandoning ALL faith and become atheist
(b) Abandoning ALL faith and become worse in conduct than those in the world.
(c) Hitting the RESET button - either finding sites like this or joining another denomination.
For those of us that comment on this site and the forum - how have we got here? Trial and error, by typing into a search engine or Gods spirit? I don't know. But imagine if you could structure the site and promote it through social media and other savvy mean for it to gain a high rate. What would that do. Imagine engaging with other churches, radio stations etc to let people know. For example, I was at a Christian Apologetics conference and met the host of a Christian radio station called 'Premier' (UK based). He had always wanted to talk to a JW, but the branch office always declined. In any case I suggested he got e-Watchman on the show (a critic and apologist of the WT) in a debate - and it happened. My point is that taking the message 'out there' needs a lot of careful thought.
If we could provide a safety net for all the above, something for them to 'chew the cud' and not give up - that would be purposeful. Something more than just to prove how wrong JW's are, but WHERE TO GO AND HOW TO GET THERE (ie Jesus Christ) in nice soft baby steps, so as to ease the pain. We could offer mentors, apologetics, a shoulder to cry on etc - anything that could help to heal and get a person back on their feet and back to their true abode, in Christ.Reply by stonedragon2k on 2015-02-05 02:13:13
This is an example of a 'healing' video produced by an ex-Mormon who comments on the similarities between their faith and ours. Its done very sympathetically and perhaps you could include the same type of material on the website.
Any case here goes... www.youtube.comwatch?v=GmeSmlHyDRU [Admin Note: Link broken for reasons of possible copyright infringement. To watch, copy it to the URL box in a browser and replace the backslash with a forward slash]Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-05 08:33:12
The video makes some good points, but others will fail to convince. A discerning viewer will realize that we do want mind control. Mind control in itself is not bad.
“. . .but that YOU should be made new in the force actuating YOUR mind, 24 and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty. . .” (Eph 4:23, 24)
The problem isn't behavioral modification itself. That is what all loving parents should do to bring up their children in the path of righteousness. The problem comes when those who have no right to modify our behavior get involved in the process. All mind control and behavioral modification that comes from God through his word is for our benefit. However, organized religion, but substituting the will of men for the will of God has perverted the process for its own ends and to the detriment of the flock. It is just another instance of the truth of Eccl. 8:9
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-05 08:40:08
Those of us behind Beroean Pickets are on the same wavelength with you, StoneDragon2k. One of the main motivations behind our idea for a new site is to provide the seed for an alternative. Peter said, "to whom shall we go". Stripped of the customs and daily routine of a former religion, the believer is set adrift. It is our hope to provide the means to get him/her grounded again based on our own experience and the direction of God's word on the matter. While doing this, our goal is not to replace one organized religion with another. Our time is limited, but with God's blessing we will reach that goal.
Comment by katrina on 2015-02-05 04:47:38
I think it is a great idea to expand to help others there are probably more than we think crying and groaning about what is happening to their religion, doubts and not able to put their finger on it, but feeling spiritually unfulfilled. This site offers all that, however needs a personal touch a place where one can open up and for many healing is hard, its like a divorce or a death, I agree for ones that are crying for spiritual help this place is the best I have come across, also think getting involved in a personal way helping in what ever way one can financially or others is a sense of feeling a belonging and part of it, for some we are only awakening for others its been awhile and still for others they have moved on everyone is connected regardless of where our journey is at this time.
I don't post much but I read everyday, some have trouble expressing or posting, I am just grateful for all of your help spiritually, and I am convinced that holy spirit is behind this site, or should say those who have lovingly created this site and all those that contribute astounding what I have learned. So perhaps expanding may reach others that also really need spiritual help as well as understanding and someone to open up to as can be very lonely knowing TATT.
Comment by katrina on 2015-02-05 04:50:14
should elaborate, helping financially for the new site or project as some don't have the skills or other things, but doing something can give ones a sense of being part of it all even in some small way.
Comment by stonedragon2k on 2015-02-08 04:56:44
Hi Meleti,
I thought you might find this site interesting to compare and contrast whatever you have in mind
http://watchtowerinvestigated.co.uk/Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-02-08 08:43:57
Thanks stonedragon2k. Yes, that's a good example of what not to do.
Reply by Wild Olive on 2015-03-14 19:42:19
I live in Melbourne Australia and want to begin a bible study group and give a true witness publicly,how do I go about this ?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-03-15 07:55:29
If you are unconcerned about any past or present affiliation with Jehovah's Witnesses, the answer is fairly straightforward. Starting with friends, family and associations, you could begin to preach the good news of the Christ and find those wish a hearing ear. A study group would naturally follow. We are working on a denomination-neutral bible study aid which might prove helpful. In the mean time, simply picking a theme and analyzing it with the group will be a good way to proceed. Of course, the ideal method allows for all to be involved and promotes a judgment-free environment so that all feel free to express themselves.
Reply by Wild Olive on 2015-03-16 01:24:48
Hello again Meleti,yesterday O went to a meeting of the Bible Students and was pleasantly surprised,they all knew I was a JW but had not a hint of judgement,I brought up Charles Russell a few times and was always met with a wry smile and a " well bro Russell did get a few things wrong " reply.
I believe that the foundation for encouragement of exiting JW is already available,what are your thoughts please.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-03-16 08:47:39
I do not believe salvation is to be found in any organization. However, we need to associate with fellow Christians, so when we find them, we do well to obey the Bible command to congregate.
Comment by Wild Olive on 2015-03-20 00:04:08
I too am drawn to the fact that I don't want to start another religion in opposition to the GB,however to be true to the scriptures,sooner or later Ime going to have to put a dagger in the organization,and the last thing I want to be is an exjw! Too many of them seem angry and bitter,what is a good way to proceed without causing grief ? Is it even possible? Can we be true to Christ and still be JWs?
Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-03-20 08:21:59
19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. 21 To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. 23 But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others. (1 Cor. 9:19-23)
The sense of betrayal I felt upon learning of the lifelong deception I'd experienced at the hands of men I had trusted made me want to chuck the whole thing and leave. However, it is never good to make a decision when one is angry. I have come to see the wisdom of Paul's words to the Corinthians in the emails I get telling me about experiences different ones have had with disenchanted brothers going through tough times in the organization due to the oppression of misguided or over-zealous elders. This has been my experience as well. Our goal is to "gain some", to "save some". We do not choose the easy road of self-pity and bitterness, but the hard road that requires us to "do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others."
There will come a time when we have to leave. Like the Christians in Jerusalem who departed at the last moment in 66 C.E., we too will be called out of "Her". God's people must be in Babylon the Great for the words of Rev. 18:4 to have any meaning, but until we hear that clarion call, we can strive to become whatever we must so that we might save some. In that too, we imitate our God Jehovah.Reply by Wild Olive on 2015-03-24 23:59:03
Thank you for the encouragement and fine scriptural counsel.I would never have thought that the JW movement could ever be part of BTG but it seems it's happened at the guidance of the GB.
If anyone in Melbourne Australia is interested in real bible study I would like to do something about,if possible.
Comment by Boanerges on 2015-05-19 13:42:45
I see that the Survey is closed now. Has a new site been agreed on?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-05-19 14:13:00
Yes. I has taken us longer than expected to set up the legal entity we need to expand our ministry without exposing ourselves unnecessarily to persecution. We are very close now, and once the initial site is in place, I'll be posting the results of the survey and asking for more input from the community. Thank you for your support and interest.
MV