“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means
pass away until all these things happen.” (Mt 24:34)
Does this Scripture offer Christians a means by which to calculate how close we are to the end? It might seem so at first glance. All that is needed is to understand the approximate length of a generation and then to fix a starting point. After that, it’s just simple math.
Over the years, many millions of Christians have been misled by their leaders to fixate on possible dates for Christ’s return, only to wind up disillusioned and discouraged. Many have even turned away from God and Christ due to such failed expectations. Truly, “expectation postponed is making the heart sick.” (Pr 13:12)
Rather than depend on others for an understanding of Jesus’ words, why not accept the help he promised us at John 16:7, 13? God’s spirit is powerful and can guide us into all the truth.
A word of warning, however. Holy spirit guides us; it does not force us. We must welcome it and create an environment where it can do its work. So pride and hubris must be eliminated. Likewise, personal agendas, bias, prejudice, and preconceptions. Humility, an open mind, and a heart willing to change are crucial to its operation. We must always remember that the Bible instructs us. We do not instruct it.
An Expository Approach
If we are going to have any chance of correctly understanding what Jesus meant by “all these things” and “this generation” will have to learn how to see things through his eyes. We will also have to try to understand the mindset of his disciples. We will need to put his words into their historical context. You will need to harmonize everything with the rest of Scripture.
Our first step should be to read from the beginning of the account. This will take us to Matthew chapter 21. There we read of Jesus’ triumphant entry into Jerusalem seated on a colt just days before he was to die. Matthew relates:
“This actually took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet, who said: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion: ‘Look! Your king is coming to you, mild-tempered and mounted on a donkey, yes, on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’”” (Mt 21:4, 5)
From this and the way Jesus was subsequently treated by the crowds, it is evident that the people believed that their king, their liberator, had finally arrived. Jesus next enters the temple and throws out the money changers. Boys are running around crying, “Save us, Son of David.” The expectation of the people was that the Messiah was to be king and sit on David’s throne to rule Israel, freeing it from the rule of gentile nations. The religious leaders are indignant by the idea that the people hold Jesus to be this Messiah.
The next day, Jesus returns to the temple and is challenged by the chief priests and elders whom he both defeats and rebukes. He then gives them the parable of the landowner who rented out his land to cultivators who tried to steal it by killing his son. Terrible destruction comes upon them as a consequence. This parable is about to become a reality.
In Matthew 22 he gives a related parable about a marriage feast which the King puts on for son. Messenger are sent out with invitations, but evil men kill them. In retaliation, the King’s armies dispatch the murderers and destroy their city. The Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes know these parables are about them. Incensed, they plot to trap Jesus in word so as to gain a pretext to condemn him, but the Son of God again confounds them and defeats their pathetic attempts. All this happens while Jesus continues preaching in the temple.
In Matthew 23, still in the temple and knowing his time is short, Jesus lets loose a tirade of condemnation on these leaders, repeatedly calling them hypocrites and blind guides; likening them to whitewashed graves and snakes. After 32 verses of this, he concludes by saying:
“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna? 34 For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.” (Mt 23:33-36 NWT)
For two days now, Jesus has been in the temple talking condemnation, death, and destruction upon the wicked generation that is about to kill him. But why also make them responsible for the death of all the righteous blood spilled since Abel? Abel was the first religious martyr. He worshiped God in an approved way and was killed for it by his jealous older brother who wanted to worship God in his own way. This is a familiar story; one these religious leaders are about to repeat, fulfilling an ancient prophecy.
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”” (Ge 3:15)
By killing Jesus, the religious rulers that form the governing body over the Jewish system of things will become the seed of Satan that strikes the seed of the woman in the heel. (John 8:44) Because of this, they will be held accountable for all the religious persecution of righteous men from the beginning. What is more, these men will not stop with Jesus, but will continue to persecute those the resurrected Lord sends to them.
Jesus foretells not only their destruction but that of the entire city. This is not the first time this has happened, but this tribulation will be far worse. This time the entire nation of Israel will be abandoned; rejected as God’s chosen people.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you.” (Mt 23:37, 38)
Thus, the age of the Jewish nation will end. Its particular system of things as God’s chosen people will have reached its conclusion and will be no more.
A Quick Review
In Matthew 23:36, Jesus speaks of “all these things” which will come upon “this generation.” Going no further, looking only at the context, what generation would you suggest he is speaking of? The answer would seem obvious. It must be the generation upon which all these things, this destruction, is about to come.
Leaving the Temple
Since arriving in Jerusalem, Jesus’ message has changed. He is no longer speaking of peace and reconciliation with God. His words are full of denunciation and retribution, death and destruction. For a people who are very proud of their ancient city with its magnificent temple, who feel their form of worship is the only one approved by God, such words must be very disturbing. Perhaps in reaction to all this talk, upon leaving the temple, Christ’s disciples start talking up the beauty of the temple. This talk causes our Lord to say the following:
“As he was going out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him: “Teacher, see! what wonderful stones and buildings!” 2 However, Jesus said to him: “Do you see these great buildings? By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Mr 13:1, 2)
“Later, when some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with fine stones and dedicated things, 6 he said: “As for these things that you now see, the days will come when not a stone will be left upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Lu 21:5, 6)
“Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Mt 24:1, 2)
“These great buildings”, “these things”, “all these things.” These words originate with Jesus, not his disciples!
If we ignore the context and restrict ourselves only to Matthew 24:34, we might be led to believe that the phrase “all these things” refers to the signs and occurrences Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:4 thru 31. Some of those things occurred shortly after Jesus died, while others have yet to occur, so drawing such a conclusion would force us to explain how a single generation could encompass a 2,000-year-long span of time.[i] When something doesn’t harmonize with the rest of Scripture nor the facts of history, we should see it as a big a red flag to alert us we may be falling prey to eisegesis: imposing our view on Scripture, rather than letting Scripture instruct us.
So let us look again at the context. The first time Jesus uses these two phrases together – “all these things” and “this generation” – is in Matthew 23:36. Then, shortly thereafter, he again uses the phrase “all these things” (tauta panta) to refer to the temple. The two phrases are closely connected by Jesus. Further, this and these are words used to denote objects, things or conditions that are present before all onlookers. “This generation” must therefore refer to a generation then present, not one 2,000 years in the future. “All these things” would likewise refer to things he’s just spoken of, things present before them, things pertaining to “this generation.”
What about the things mentioned at Matthew 24:3-31? Are they also included?
Before we answer that, we have to again look at the historical context and what gave rise to Christ’s prophetic words.
The Multipart Question
After departing the temple, Jesus and his disciples made their way to the Mount of Olives from which they could view all of Jerusalem including its magnificent temple. Undoubtedly, the disciples must have been disturbed by Jesus’ words that all the things they could see from the Mount of Olives were soon to be destroyed. How would you feel if the place of worship you had revered all your life as God’s own house was going to be utterly obliterated? At the very least, you would want to know when it was all going to happen.
“While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, (A) when will these things be, and (B) what will be the sign of your presence and (C) of the conclusion of the system of things?” (Mt 24:3)
“Tell us, (A) when will these things be, and (C) what will be the sign when all these things are to come to a conclusion?” (Mr 13:4)
“Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, (A) when will these things actually be, and (C) what will be the sign when these things are to occur?” (Lu 21:7)
Notice that only Matthew breaks the question into three parts. The other two writers do not. Did they feel the question about Christ’s presence (B) wasn’t important? Not likely. Then why not mention it? Also worthy of note is the fact that all three gospel accounts were written before the fulfillment of Matthew 24:15-22, i.e., before Jerusalem was destroyed. Those writers did not yet know that all three parts of the question were not to have a concurrent fulfillment. As we consider the rest of the account, it is critical that we remember that point; that we see things through their eyes and understand where they were coming from.
“When will these things be?”
All three accounts include these words. Obviously, they are referring to the “things” Jesus had just spoken of: The death of the blood guilty wicked generation, the destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple. To this point, nothing else had been mentioned by Jesus, so there is no reason to assume they were thinking of anything else when they asked their question.
“What will be the sign…of the conclusion of the system of things?”
This rendering of the third part of the question comes from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Most Bible translations render this literally as “the end of the age.” The end of what age? Were the disciples asking about the end of the world of mankind? Again, rather than speculate, let us allow the Bible to speak to us:
“…when all these things are to come to a conclusion?”” (Mr 13:4)
“…what will be the sign when these things are to occur?” (Lu 21:7)
Both accounts refer again to “these things”. Jesus had only referred to the destruction of the generation, the city, the temple, and the final abandonment of the nation by God. Therefore, the only age on the mind of his disciples would have been the age or era of the Jewish system of things. That age began with the formation of the nation in 1513 B.C.E. when Jehovah made a covenant with them through his prophet, Moses. That covenant ended in 36 C.E. (Da 9:27) However, like a badly timed car engine that keeps running on after it has been shut down, the nation continued until Jehovah’s appointed time to use the Roman armies to destroy the city and obliterate the nation, fulfilling the words of his Son. (2Co 3:14; He 8:13)
So when Jesus answers the question, we can rightly expect him to tell his disciples when or by what signs the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the leadership – “all these things” – would come.
“This generation”, the wicked generation then present, would experience “all these things.”
“This Generation” Identified
Before we muddy the waters by trying to factor in doctrinal interpretations concerning the prophecies of Matthew chapter 24, let us agree on this: It was Jesus, not the disciples, who first introduced the notion of a generation experiencing “all these things”. He spoke of death, punishment, and destruction and then said at Matthew 23:36, “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.”
Later the same day, he again talked about destruction, this time specifically regarding the temple, when he said at Matthew 24:2, “Do you not see all these things. Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”
Both declarations are prefaced by the phrase, “Truly I say to you…” He is both emphasizing his words and offering his disciples a reassurance. If Jesus says that “truly” something is going to happen, then you can take that to the bank.
So at Matthew 24:34 when he again says, “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen,” he’s giving his Jewish disciples yet another reassurance that the unthinkable is really going to happen. Their nation is going to be abandoned by God, their precious temple with its holy of holies where the very presence of God is said to exist, will be obliterated. To further bolster the faith that these words will come true, he adds, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.” (Mt. 24:35)
Why would anyone look at all this contextual evidence and conclude, “Aha! He’s talking about our day! He was telling his disciples that a generation that wouldn’t make its appearance for two whole millennia is the one that will see ‘all these things’”
And yet, it really shouldn’t surprise us that this is exactly what has happened. Why not? Because as part of this prophecy in Matthew 24 Jesus foretold this eventuality.
In part, this is a result of a misunderstanding the first century disciples had. However, we cannot put the blame on them. Jesus gave us all we needed to avoid the confusion; to keep us from running off on self-indulgent interpretational tangents.
To Be Continued
To this point we’ve established which generation Jesus was referring to at Matthew 24:34. His words were fulfilled in the first century. They did not fail.
Is there room for a secondary fulfillment, one that takes place during the last days of the global system of things which concludes with the return of Christ as the Messianic King?
Explaining how the prophecies of Matthew chapter 24 harmonize with all the foregoing is the subject of the next article: “This Generation – A Modern Day Fulfillment?”
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[i] Some preterists hold that everything described from Matthew 24:4 thru 31 took place during the first century. Such a view attempts to explain the appearance of Jesus in the clouds metaphorically, while explaining the gathering of the chosen ones by the Angels as a progress of evangelization by the Christian congregation. For more information on preterist thinking see this comment by Vox Ratio.
[…] aspects of this prophecy on our sister site, Beroean Pickets – Archive, examining the meaning of “this generation” (vs. 34), determining who the “he” is in vs. 33, breaking down the three-part question […]
[…] In a previous article, we were able to establish that in all likelihood Jesus was referring to the wicked generation of Jews of his day when he gave his disciples the assurance found at Matthew 24:34. (See This Generation’ – A Fresh Look) […]
[…] they were allowed to know? The meaning of the generation of Matthew 24:34 was discussed in detail here. Summarizing those articles, we can say that “all these things” applies to what he said […]
[…] the third article of the “This Generation” series (Mt 24:34) some questions were left unanswered. Since then, I’ve realized that the list has […]
(to put it in one thread) The seed of Abraham is the ‘all Israel’ which are both “sands”, earthly/redeemable mankind AND “stars”, spiritual- Israel of God/Spiritual Israel. Both are ‘saved’ as children of God with different designations: earth or heaven. One of my favorite references on the topic from Reprint WT(1874-1916): Watchtower Reprint 2522:page223 “No one can rightly appreciate the hopes and ambitions aroused in the minds of the Jewish nation by the Lord through the holy prophets, except as he realizes the fact that Spiritual Israel has taken the place in large measure of natural Israel, whose branches were… Read more »
Meleti, an interesting point I came across in my on going study of Matthew 24, and in relation to your article. As we know Jesus discourse was about the end of the age and his second coming. Thinking about that and the temple again – reading through Haggai, it can be noted that in the Hebrew mind, a temple that you see in front of you can also be a temple that is not yet built – that would refer to a temple that used to be there and yet to be built. I was thinking that this could be… Read more »
Meleti, I know this has been mentioned before, but I was thinking perhaps the following is also relevant to the discussion: Romans 11:1 “I ask then: did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.” Romans 11:25-28 “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is… Read more »
““all Israel” of course would refer to a remnant”
Or it could actually refer to exactly what it says it refers to: “all Israel”
Not if you compare it with rest of scripture.
Why would it mean remnant if it read all Israel? If the first was meant, why did the writer not use that word? It is not a difficult word…..
Hi Menrov, It could not be referring to every literal Jew of course. But rather a “collective” remnant of Jews that would make up “national Israel” and so then it could be said that “all Israel will be saved.”
Hi Skye, ok, I see what you mean. 🙂
This is something I’ve been wondering about for some time. Israel lost out, but a remnant of Israel was given undeserved kindness. Israel’s loss opened the way for the gentiles to join in as children of God, as part of the Israel of God. (Gal 6:16) By this means, “all Israel” can be saved. This brings to mind Romans 8:21: “that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.” All creation is saved by means of the children of God, the seed of the woman. So… Read more »
So Abraham’s inheritance and the Christian inheritance is the same (Galatians 3:8) Romans 4:11 “And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.” Paul spoke of fleshly Israel, 1 Corinthians 10:18 (now unconverted Israel) as distinct from “Spiritual Israel” at Galatians 6:16 and Philippians 3:3. According to OT prophecies there will be a conversion of now blinded fleshly Israel. This will take place… Read more »
Sorry, Skye, but I just don’t see it from what you’ve quoted above. It seems like interpretation based on assumptions.
Understandable. As we know JWs have not done a diligent study of the OT, and much of which they have seriously interpreted incorrectly as a result. Perhaps the above scriptures will help in giving people a start in their further studies.
The seed of Abraham is the ‘all Israel’ which are both “sands”, earthly/redeemable mankind AND “stars”, spiritual- Israel of God/Spiritual Israel. Both are ‘saved’ as children of God with different designations: earth or heaven. One of my favorite references on the topic from Reprint WT(1874-1916): Watchtower Reprint 2522:page223 “No one can rightly appreciate the hopes and ambitions aroused in the minds of the Jewish nation by the Lord through the holy prophets, except as he realizes the fact that Spiritual Israel has taken the place in large measure of natural Israel, whose branches were broken off, that we who were… Read more »
I make the case that Abraham’s earthly seed “will fill the earth” which is the whole of redeemable mankind. Also that the Apostle gives the thought of stars of the heaven as an undefined number just as the sand of the shore is undefined in number. And that stars are arranged and have an order, therefore the number 144,000 seems to emphasize this symbolic notion.
Meleti, This is with regard to someone’s comment relating to Luke 21:24. It’s not directly related to the length of “this generation” because you have suggested I take that to the DTT. However, the following is an example of how the OT prophecies figure in Jesus’ words, and does, I think, therefore adds further understanding to the discussion. Luke 21:24 “They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” In Luke 21:24, Jesus was quoting from Zechariah… Read more »
Meleti, the difference that you and I appear to have is our understanding of the meaning in scripture of the term “generation” according to Jesus words. My understanding is that “genea”, in harmony with scripture, can “also” have the sense of “age” or “indefinite period of time.” As we know in order to come to an accurate understanding of Jesus words at Matthew, Mark and Luke etc. we have to take into account OT prophecies as Jesus did.
Hi Skye,
I’m not aware of any OT prophecies that impact on Jesus’ words at Mt 23:36 and 24:34. If you like, you could open a topic in http://www.discussthetruth.com to expound on your understanding more fully. It’s entirely up to you, of course. I respect your point of view.
Meleti
There are difficulties with assuming “genea” to mean “age”, which is a minor translation of the Greek word, according to Strong’s, which describes genea=age as “the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years”. It only appears to mean “indefinite period of time” when “genea” is repeated in the sentence (as in, generation after generation, for instance), which it is not repeated in the verses under discussion. Asserting that “genea” means some kind of very long “age”, far outside the span of about a 40-year generation, is not warranted by the grammar of… Read more »
Anonymous, Thank you. As you will see from Meleti’s reply to my comment, he has suggested DTT if I wish to explain OT prophecies in relation to the discussion. Unfortunately, and I apologise for this, I do not have the time, nor the energy at present, to take part in DTT. The important thing is that when we speak of scripture, we must ensure that it is the truth, and that is my determination, as I am sure it is yours too. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 “and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they… Read more »
Thanks Meleti, I now start to wonder why there is so much focus on THIS GENERATION. Like that information is important to the generation Jesus was talking about. It was not, not at all. It was only important to the apostles with him as it was a confirmation to them that the events Jesus just spoke about would happen in their life time. In other words, the reference to generation was to provide confidence to the apostles that His words were not for a far distant future. As Jesus did not know the exact day or hour, He could only… Read more »
Hi Menrov.
I think the renewed emphasis on the generation is to try to bolster a flagging enthusiasm amongst the rank and file by reinvigorating the state-of-fear mentality. If we can again calculate how very close the end is (As Splane said, all the members of the GB are part of the generation and they’re not getting any younger) then we can feel that we only have a few years, so now is not the time to miss meetings, decrease our service time, or stop donating.
I think you are 100% correct. It occurs to me also that if the esoteric knowledge the Watchtower uses to calculate the date 1914 is taken from the book of Daniel, surely Jesus of all people would have been able to work that out while he was on Earth, given that he was a keen bible student as we know, and also referred to that same book in this same prophecy regarding Jerusalem, according to Luke’s account. Admittedly the book of Revelation hadn’t been written, and that is a revelation from Jesus, but this knowledge was unknown to him when… Read more »
How do you illustrate eisegesis? What scripture would you choose? I’ll give you a moment. Well, I pick this one. Fantastic, well exsplaned (sic)
🙂
This is known as buying more time. Plain and simple. The question is “Why are we still trying to figure out times and seasons?” It will happen when it happens. But hopefully in my generation….
My feelings exactly.
Yes. It’s clear that when their interpretation of “this generation” became stretched in the early 90s they had two choices. 1. Abandon 1914 as the anchor point. 2. Redefine “this generation”. Obviously the first option was not possible because so much Watchtower theology depends on that flawed date. Regarding the second option, I find it conspicuous that it took them 15 years to redefine that term after they abandoned it in 1995. During that time is was omitted from new publications and avoided in the field ministry. Now it’s back with abandon, more confused than ever. This is hardly what… Read more »
I’m completely faded. I read your articles, they give me a more believe able viewpoint…
What is the WTBS basis for second fulfillments? I still can’t grasp the idea except for, “This is what we think, and you’re an apostate for thinking otherwise.”
True. In fact, without secondary or antitypical fulfillments, they would have no basis whatsoever for the claim that Jesus appointed them as the faithful and discreet slave in 1919.
Another case of “You’re so vain, you probably think this bible verse is about you.”
And I like the part about the badly timed car engine – I’ve had a few of those. lol
Funny. Where’s Carly Simon when you need her? Oh, wait. The GB are now officially rock stars. Guess we don’t need CS after all :-))
Hi Meleti, Thanks for the time and effort you’ve put into this. I tend to agree that the most obvious understanding of the generation passages are likely to be understood as you have explained them. In fact, given that the destruction of Jerusalem is within the purview of “all these things” then it would seem that Jesus thereby bounded the context for any of the other “things” he had in mind as well (cf. Mt. 24:34). In other words, if Jerusalem’s demise was understood to be a part of “these things”, then it ipso facto follows that “these things” are… Read more »
I read a book recently called Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation by a guy called Philip Mauro. He was around in Russells time and spoke against dispensationalism, Zionism, amongst other things. Its a really good read. He also wrote The Wonders of Bible Chronology, which is basically a summary of Martin Ansteys book The Romance of Bible Chronology, a look at true bible chronology without secular sources. The Persian period comes up 82 years short with a proper application of Daniels prophecy and the decree of Cyrus, and puts real doubt on Ptolemys canon after the Babylonian period, which… Read more »
Russell used a modified version of dispensationalism which teaching originated with John Darby (The Exclusive Brethren). Russell was also a Zionist, but we denounced Zionism as being of Satan around the 1950’s. 606 BCE is a Nelson Barbour teaching, he just got Russell to accept it. They both knew full well the destruction of Jerusalem was in 587, it just didn’t fit with Barbour’s cyclical Sabbath year thingy. Nelson Barbour was an ex-Millerite, as were most of Russell’s friends at that time. Great beginnings. One of Millers teachings was that Michael the archangel is Jesus, and it was pointed out… Read more »
This is somewhat OT, but I wonder if anyone could comment on, or at least point me in the right direction, about the Jesus is Michael the Archangel debate, since it was brought up in the comment above. I know many object to it on grounds that an archangel is a created being, and that doesn’t work for believers of the trinity. If we accept that there is no trinity and that Jesus was created, what then is the objection to equating the two? Is there good reason for believing Jesus is Michael, or not? Or do we simply not… Read more »
There is a topic titled “Is Jesus Michael” on Discuss the Truth.
Reasons against Michael being Jesus, off the top of my head. Hebrews Chaper 1. Michael is “one” of the chief princes. Michael did not rebuke Satan, but Jesus did not hesitate (Jude). Jesus is going to be accompanied by an archangels voice and the sound of God’s trumpet. Because he has God’s trumpet does that mean he is God? Hardly. And why would Jude in context flip between using Jesus name and Michael if they are merely the same being? The answer is obvious. William Miller got it wrong, unfortunately for us. There will be many false prophets. Read Philip… Read more »
My big question I ask others is why does Hebrews even begin with the subject of angels? Always plural “angels” as well? I know what some people think well after the fact of the books writing and its initial Hebrew audience. But given the Jewish context it originally emerged within, why start the entire premise of the book with the very subject of angels? To support Christendom eisegesis? Is it because the Hebrews were interested in a certain angel they knew of well? (Rather than the post Christendom ideas to support their various theologies.) And that it was being explained… Read more »
Did you mean the 1850s, not 1950s? You should still be able to edit it, as there’s a 24-hour window before a comment is locked down.
I appreciate knowing that, Vox Ratio.
I’ve amended the footnote to clarify that not all preterists see things the same way and added a link to your comment for clarification.
Many thanks,
Meleti
Thanks Meleti, I like the point about”truly ” and context of events that Jesus spoke about, being”this” generation, and “all these things”, yes their generation twould be eye-witness to those events. Jesus’ words to his four apostles, Andrew, Peter, James and John, in 33 C.E. About describing those events, Jesus said: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” – Matthew 24:34 Clearly, the generation Jesus was referring to in that discussion was the generation of the four men he was speaking to. That is surely what the four men thought. Jesus spoke in a… Read more »
Matthew 1:17 tells us, “All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were fourteen generations, and from David until the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ fourteen generations.” Taking the deportation as 587 BCE, and the appearance of the baptized Christ as 29 CE, then 587 + 29 = 616. 616 / 14 generations = an average of 44 years per generation. If we look even further back, David is said to have been born around 1040. If we accepted the WT chronology of David (which seems to be reasonably close), in… Read more »
It’s always risking doing math in a hurry. But it has a happy ending. If David became king in 1077 BCE when he was 30 years old, we have to add (NOT subtract) his age to get his birth year (because BCE dates get bigger going backwards), which would make David’s year of birth 1077+30 = 1107 BCE. Then, from David to Christ would be 1107 + 29 = 1136 years, rather than 1076 shown above. Since this is two sets of 14 generations, 1136 / 28 = 40.5 years as the average length of a generation, “amortized” over 28… Read more »
Meleti, great article! I believe that sometimes a logical easy explination is the correct one. I too will wait for part 2 to say any more
Meleti, Keeping these scriptures in mind: Luke 16:8; Mark 8:38; Matthew 11:16 (Mark 8:38); Proverbs 30:11 – where it appears that “generation” (genea) is referring to a type of people/ society of people, and not therefore to 40 or 80 years.
Is it possible, therefore, that in Matthew 23:35 where is says “you” will be held accountable, could “this generation” in verse 36 reach back 400 years to the murderers of Zechariah? If that were the case then that could be the generation that continues until the second coming of Jesus Christ and not 70 CE.
The word “generation”, like most words, can mean more than one thing depending on the context. Your take on it is similar to something Apollos wrote about a couple of years ago. (See “This Generation” and the Jewish People.) I took that into consideration in my analysis. However, the context of Matthew 21 through 24 does not support that application in my opinion.
Meleti, what I’m referring to is not just related to the Jewish people, of course, but including them along with the wicked world system until replaced by the Kingdom at Jesus’ second coming. Would you agree then that what I have stated about Matthew 23:35,36 is a possibility, especially if you take into account Jesus’ words at Matthew 23:39 “For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”
Incidentally, with regard to my comment above, taken in context, the “generation” of Matthew 24:34 relates to the then present world system which would continue until Jesus returns and replaces it with his Kingdom.
Those who experienced “all the things” he spoke of died in 70 C.E. Yet they will live again. Rather than think of the generation of people spanning 6,000 years, we can look to the Bible for the definition and how it relates to Mt 23:39. In the same context (Luke 11:50, 51) in which Jesus made “this generation” responsible for the blood spilt since Abel, he says the following: “For just as Joʹnah became a sign to the Ninʹe·vites, so will the Son of man be to this generation. 31 The queen of the south will be raised up in the… Read more »
Since we must consider the context, we cannot stop at 400 years, but must reach back to Abel, also mentioned here. If the murderer of Abel is part of the “you” and “generation”, then we have a generation reaching back almost 4,000 years and forward 2,000 years. A 6,000 year generation. Such a thing is not suggested by Luke 16:8; Mark 8:38; Matthew 11:16 (Mark 8:38); Proverbs 30:11.
Matthew 23:35. When Jesus is considering “you”, he apparently is not referring to contemporaries because the Pharisees were not “personally” responsible for the death of the prophet of 2 Chron. Therefore when Jesus used the pronoun “you” he was incorporating a group of people living over such an extended period of time, the point being that they were the same in that they were evil/wicked. As an example of such a way of thinking by Jesus is Matthew 28:19,20 when he said to the apostles, “I will be with you to the end of the age.” Those who he spoke… Read more »
Granted. That distinction was explained in the article. The blood guilt of all past wicked generations making up the Devil’s seed was to be heaped upon the current generation, contemporary with Jesus. Previous generations killed the prophets, but the accumulation of sin reached its breaking point with the killing of God’s Son as he foretold in parables. Thus Mt 24:34 was fulfilled in the first century.
What about Matthew 24:29,30? Jesus did not reappear immediately after 70 CE.
That’s one of the points to be covered in the next article.
The Pharisees were not literally responsible, but they were spiritually responsible. How so? Who was responsible for shedding the blood of Abel? Cain. What was the motive for Cain murdering Abel? A dispute over what form of worship/religion was approved of by God. Zechariah was killed in the time of King Jehoash who failed to adhere to true worship but succumbed to pagan influences around him. At the time Jesus uttered his words in Matthew 23:35, the Pharisees had not yet been literally responsible for Jesus’ death, but they already had demonstrated the murderous hatred that would lead to it.… Read more »
Well said. I agree completely!
I agree your conclusion.
The sign that the summer was near referred to the coming start of the time of the nations, which would be fulfilled in the first century. We now live in the very last days of that summer, close to the start of the harvest season.
Alex Rover,
Jerusalem is no longer ruled by the nations/gentiles.
Hi Deborah, I get your point, but the harvest is the conclusion of this system of things, whereby the weeds are bound up and destroyed, and the wheat harvested. The time of the nations will come at an end with the establishment of the kingdom rule over this earth. When the statue of Daniel falls.
Alex Rover,
The return of Israel was not an accident of nature. We must let our eyes see the reality of things, not look away. The reality is that Jerusalem is no longer under the political control of the nations/gentiles. You may believe the Jerusalem in Luke 21 is a spiritual entity but that IS NOT WHAT THE CONTEXT INDICATES.
I’m curious about something, Deborah. Let us assume that the appointed times of the gentiles ended around the middle of the 20th century. Is there any other significance to this?
Yes. It would mean that the signs in the heavens would come AFTER the end of the gentile times. Luke’s Gospel spans 2000 years.
Deborah, Luke 21:24 “They will fall by the sword and be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”
This is referring to a final oppression by the Gentiles against Israel, yet to happen. Jesus was quoting from Zechariah 12:3 (see LXX). See also Daniel 9:26-27 and Revelation 11:2,3.
The OT is relevant to our being able to understand Jesus’ words because that is where he quoted from. Jesus Christ was a Jew!
Deborah, The seasons of God is quite a detailed discussion as I’m sure you know. All who live between the two advents of Christ are prophetically “summer” which is the last season of the “kingdoms of men”. With regard to Jerusalem according to the Zechariah 14 there is to be a final battle of the nations against Jerusalem. As you will see, when studying the chapter, this battle is yet to happen and Christ will return and fight for his people.
Skye,
I would appreciate NT support for your interpretation of the “seasons”.and “summer”. Do you have direct NT scriptural references for your assertions?
Deborah, It’s quite a lengthy scriptural explanation, and it would be difficult for me to summarize it. As I explained to Meleti it was sent to me by a friend who has done extensive study on the “last days”. If you like, I could email you a copy.
Perhaps putting a detailed summary on the Discuss the Truth Forum?
I would have to disagree. When Jesus said, “Look, your house is abandoned to you”, it was the beginning of the end of God’s special relationship with the nation of Israel. Consider the principle in Matthew 18:15-17: “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to… Read more »
I agree with Deborah! I eagerly await the next installment!
Meleti,
I applaud your effort to publish this article.
Holding off further comment until your follow-up article.