“Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means
pass away until all these things happen.” (Mt 24:34)
If you scan the "This Generation" category on this site, you'll see various attempts by myself and Apollos to come to terms with the meaning of Matthew 24:34. These were sincere attempts to try to reconcile our understanding of the scope of this verse with the rest of Scripture and the facts of history. Looking back on my own attempts, I realize that I was still working under the influence of my life-long JW mindset. I was imposing a premise on the passage that was not found in Scripture and then reasoning from that basis. I confess that I was never really comfortable with those explanations, though at the time I couldn't put my finger on why that was so. It is now clear to me that I wasn't letting the Bible do the talking.
Does this Scripture offer Christians a means by which to calculate how close we are to the end? It might seem so at first glance. All that is needed is to understand the approximate length of a generation and then to fix a starting point. After that, it’s just simple math.
Over the years, many millions of Christians have been misled by their leaders to fixate on possible dates for Christ’s return, only to wind up disillusioned and discouraged. Many have even turned away from God and Christ due to such failed expectations. Truly, “expectation postponed is making the heart sick.” (Pr 13:12)
Rather than depend on others for an understanding of Jesus’ words, why not accept the help he promised us at John 16:7, 13? God’s spirit is powerful and can guide us into all the truth.
A word of warning, however. Holy spirit guides us; it does not force us. We must welcome it and create an environment where it can do its work. So pride and hubris must be eliminated. Likewise, personal agendas, bias, prejudice, and preconceptions. Humility, an open mind, and a heart willing to change are crucial to its operation. We must always remember that the Bible instructs us. We do not instruct it.
An Expository Approach
If we are going to have any chance of correctly understanding what Jesus meant by “all these things” and “this generation” will have to learn how to see things through his eyes. We will also have to try to understand the mindset of his disciples. We will need to put his words into their historical context. You will need to harmonize everything with the rest of Scripture.
Our first step should be to read from the beginning of the account. This will take us to Matthew chapter 21. There we read of Jesus’ triumphant entry into Jerusalem seated on a colt just days before he was to die. Matthew relates:
“This actually took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet, who said: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion: ‘Look! Your king is coming to you, mild-tempered and mounted on a donkey, yes, on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’”” (Mt 21:4, 5)
From this and the way Jesus was subsequently treated by the crowds, it is evident that the people believed that their king, their liberator, had finally arrived. Jesus next enters the temple and throws out the money changers. Boys are running around crying, “Save us, Son of David.” The expectation of the people was that the Messiah was to be king and sit on David’s throne to rule Israel, freeing it from the rule of gentile nations. The religious leaders are indignant by the idea that the people hold Jesus to be this Messiah.
The next day, Jesus returns to the temple and is challenged by the chief priests and elders whom he both defeats and rebukes. He then gives them the parable of the landowner who rented out his land to cultivators who tried to steal it by killing his son. Terrible destruction comes upon them as a consequence. This parable is about to become a reality.
In Matthew 22 he gives a related parable about a marriage feast which the King puts on for son. Messenger are sent out with invitations, but evil men kill them. In retaliation, the King’s armies dispatch the murderers and destroy their city. The Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes know these parables are about them. Incensed, they plot to trap Jesus in word so as to gain a pretext to condemn him, but the Son of God again confounds them and defeats their pathetic attempts. All this happens while Jesus continues preaching in the temple.
In Matthew 23, still in the temple and knowing his time is short, Jesus lets loose a tirade of condemnation on these leaders, repeatedly calling them hypocrites and blind guides; likening them to whitewashed graves and snakes. After 32 verses of this, he concludes by saying:
“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna? 34 For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.” (Mt 23:33-36 NWT)
For two days now, Jesus has been in the temple talking condemnation, death, and destruction upon the wicked generation that is about to kill him. But why also make them responsible for the death of all the righteous blood spilled since Abel? Abel was the first religious martyr. He worshiped God in an approved way and was killed for it by his jealous older brother who wanted to worship God in his own way. This is a familiar story; one these religious leaders are about to repeat, fulfilling an ancient prophecy.
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”” (Ge 3:15)
By killing Jesus, the religious rulers that form the governing body over the Jewish system of things will become the seed of Satan that strikes the seed of the woman in the heel. (John 8:44) Because of this, they will be held accountable for all the religious persecution of righteous men from the beginning. What is more, these men will not stop with Jesus, but will continue to persecute those the resurrected Lord sends to them.
Jesus foretells not only their destruction but that of the entire city. This is not the first time this has happened, but this tribulation will be far worse. This time the entire nation of Israel will be abandoned; rejected as God’s chosen people.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you.” (Mt 23:37, 38)
Thus, the age of the Jewish nation will end. Its particular system of things as God’s chosen people will have reached its conclusion and will be no more.
A Quick Review
In Matthew 23:36, Jesus speaks of “all these things” which will come upon “this generation.” Going no further, looking only at the context, what generation would you suggest he is speaking of? The answer would seem obvious. It must be the generation upon which all these things, this destruction, is about to come.
Leaving the Temple
Since arriving in Jerusalem, Jesus’ message has changed. He is no longer speaking of peace and reconciliation with God. His words are full of denunciation and retribution, death and destruction. For a people who are very proud of their ancient city with its magnificent temple, who feel their form of worship is the only one approved by God, such words must be very disturbing. Perhaps in reaction to all this talk, upon leaving the temple, Christ’s disciples start talking up the beauty of the temple. This talk causes our Lord to say the following:
“As he was going out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him: “Teacher, see! what wonderful stones and buildings!” 2 However, Jesus said to him: “Do you see these great buildings? By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Mr 13:1, 2)
“Later, when some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with fine stones and dedicated things, 6 he said: “As for these things that you now see, the days will come when not a stone will be left upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Lu 21:5, 6)
“Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Mt 24:1, 2)
“These great buildings”, “these things”, “all these things.” These words originate with Jesus, not his disciples!
If we ignore the context and restrict ourselves only to Matthew 24:34, we might be led to believe that the phrase “all these things” refers to the signs and occurrences Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:4 thru 31. Some of those things occurred shortly after Jesus died, while others have yet to occur, so drawing such a conclusion would force us to explain how a single generation could encompass a 2,000-year-long span of time.[i] When something doesn’t harmonize with the rest of Scripture nor the facts of history, we should see it as a big a red flag to alert us we may be falling prey to eisegesis: imposing our view on Scripture, rather than letting Scripture instruct us.
So let us look again at the context. The first time Jesus uses these two phrases together – “all these things” and “this generation” – is in Matthew 23:36. Then, shortly thereafter, he again uses the phrase “all these things” (tauta panta) to refer to the temple. The two phrases are closely connected by Jesus. Further, this and these are words used to denote objects, things or conditions that are present before all onlookers. “This generation” must therefore refer to a generation then present, not one 2,000 years in the future. “All these things” would likewise refer to things he’s just spoken of, things present before them, things pertaining to “this generation.”
What about the things mentioned at Matthew 24:3-31? Are they also included?
Before we answer that, we have to again look at the historical context and what gave rise to Christ’s prophetic words.
The Multipart Question
After departing the temple, Jesus and his disciples made their way to the Mount of Olives from which they could view all of Jerusalem including its magnificent temple. Undoubtedly, the disciples must have been disturbed by Jesus’ words that all the things they could see from the Mount of Olives were soon to be destroyed. How would you feel if the place of worship you had revered all your life as God’s own house was going to be utterly obliterated? At the very least, you would want to know when it was all going to happen.
“While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, (A) when will these things be, and (B) what will be the sign of your presence and (C) of the conclusion of the system of things?” (Mt 24:3)
“Tell us, (A) when will these things be, and (C) what will be the sign when all these things are to come to a conclusion?” (Mr 13:4)
“Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, (A) when will these things actually be, and (C) what will be the sign when these things are to occur?” (Lu 21:7)
Notice that only Matthew breaks the question into three parts. The other two writers do not. Did they feel the question about Christ’s presence (B) wasn’t important? Not likely. Then why not mention it? Also worthy of note is the fact that all three gospel accounts were written before the fulfillment of Matthew 24:15-22, i.e., before Jerusalem was destroyed. Those writers did not yet know that all three parts of the question were not to have a concurrent fulfillment. As we consider the rest of the account, it is critical that we remember that point; that we see things through their eyes and understand where they were coming from.
“When will these things be?”
All three accounts include these words. Obviously, they are referring to the “things” Jesus had just spoken of: The death of the blood guilty wicked generation, the destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple. To this point, nothing else had been mentioned by Jesus, so there is no reason to assume they were thinking of anything else when they asked their question.
“What will be the sign…of the conclusion of the system of things?”
This rendering of the third part of the question comes from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Most Bible translations render this literally as “the end of the age.” The end of what age? Were the disciples asking about the end of the world of mankind? Again, rather than speculate, let us allow the Bible to speak to us:
“…when all these things are to come to a conclusion?”” (Mr 13:4)
“…what will be the sign when these things are to occur?” (Lu 21:7)
Both accounts refer again to “these things”. Jesus had only referred to the destruction of the generation, the city, the temple, and the final abandonment of the nation by God. Therefore, the only age on the mind of his disciples would have been the age or era of the Jewish system of things. That age began with the formation of the nation in 1513 B.C.E. when Jehovah made a covenant with them through his prophet, Moses. That covenant ended in 36 C.E. (Da 9:27) However, like a badly timed car engine that keeps running on after it has been shut down, the nation continued until Jehovah's appointed time to use the Roman armies to destroy the city and obliterate the nation, fulfilling the words of his Son. (2Co 3:14; He 8:13)
So when Jesus answers the question, we can rightly expect him to tell his disciples when or by what signs the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the leadership – “all these things” – would come.
“This generation”, the wicked generation then present, would experience “all these things.”
“This Generation” Identified
Before we muddy the waters by trying to factor in doctrinal interpretations concerning the prophecies of Matthew chapter 24, let us agree on this: It was Jesus, not the disciples, who first introduced the notion of a generation experiencing “all these things”. He spoke of death, punishment, and destruction and then said at Matthew 23:36, “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.”
Later the same day, he again talked about destruction, this time specifically regarding the temple, when he said at Matthew 24:2, “Do you not see all these things. Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”
Both declarations are prefaced by the phrase, “Truly I say to you…” He is both emphasizing his words and offering his disciples a reassurance. If Jesus says that “truly” something is going to happen, then you can take that to the bank.
So at Matthew 24:34 when he again says, “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen,” he’s giving his Jewish disciples yet another reassurance that the unthinkable is really going to happen. Their nation is going to be abandoned by God, their precious temple with its holy of holies where the very presence of God is said to exist, will be obliterated. To further bolster the faith that these words will come true, he adds, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.” (Mt. 24:35)
Why would anyone look at all this contextual evidence and conclude, “Aha! He’s talking about our day! He was telling his disciples that a generation that wouldn’t make its appearance for two whole millennia is the one that will see ‘all these things’”
And yet, it really shouldn’t surprise us that this is exactly what has happened. Why not? Because as part of this prophecy in Matthew 24 Jesus foretold this eventuality.
In part, this is a result of a misunderstanding the first century disciples had. However, we cannot put the blame on them. Jesus gave us all we needed to avoid the confusion; to keep us from running off on self-indulgent interpretational tangents.
To Be Continued
To this point we’ve established which generation Jesus was referring to at Matthew 24:34. His words were fulfilled in the first century. They did not fail.
Is there room for a secondary fulfillment, one that takes place during the last days of the global system of things which concludes with the return of Christ as the Messianic King?
Explaining how the prophecies of Matthew chapter 24 harmonize with all the foregoing is the subject of the next article: "This Generation – A Modern Day Fulfillment?"
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[i] Some preterists hold that everything described from Matthew 24:4 thru 31 took place during the first century. Such a view attempts to explain the appearance of Jesus in the clouds metaphorically, while explaining the gathering of the chosen ones by the Angels as a progress of evangelization by the Christian congregation. For more information on preterist thinking see this comment by Vox Ratio.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Deborah on 2015-09-19 14:56:56
Meleti,
I applaud your effort to publish this article.
Holding off further comment until your follow-up article.
Comment by Humiliore on 2015-09-19 15:23:10
I agree with Deborah! I eagerly await the next installment!
Comment by arover2014 on 2015-09-19 15:33:51
I agree your conclusion.
The sign that the summer was near referred to the coming start of the time of the nations, which would be fulfilled in the first century. We now live in the very last days of that summer, close to the start of the harvest season.Reply by Deborah on 2015-09-19 15:46:49
Alex Rover,
Jerusalem is no longer ruled by the nations/gentiles.
Reply by arover2014 on 2015-09-19 16:38:21
Hi Deborah, I get your point, but the harvest is the conclusion of this system of things, whereby the weeds are bound up and destroyed, and the wheat harvested. The time of the nations will come at an end with the establishment of the kingdom rule over this earth. When the statue of Daniel falls.
Reply by Deborah on 2015-09-19 16:51:40
Alex Rover,
The return of Israel was not an accident of nature. We must let our eyes see the reality of things, not look away. The reality is that Jerusalem is no longer under the political control of the nations/gentiles. You may believe the Jerusalem in Luke 21 is a spiritual entity but that IS NOT WHAT THE CONTEXT INDICATES.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-19 17:46:22
I'm curious about something, Deborah. Let us assume that the appointed times of the gentiles ended around the middle of the 20th century. Is there any other significance to this?
Reply by Deborah on 2015-09-19 17:57:33
Yes. It would mean that the signs in the heavens would come AFTER the end of the gentile times. Luke's Gospel spans 2000 years.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-20 04:53:56
Deborah, Luke 21:24 "They will fall by the sword and be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
This is referring to a final oppression by the Gentiles against Israel, yet to happen. Jesus was quoting from Zechariah 12:3 (see LXX). See also Daniel 9:26-27 and Revelation 11:2,3.
The OT is relevant to our being able to understand Jesus' words because that is where he quoted from. Jesus Christ was a Jew!
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-19 17:46:45
Deborah, The seasons of God is quite a detailed discussion as I'm sure you know. All who live between the two advents of Christ are prophetically "summer" which is the last season of the "kingdoms of men". With regard to Jerusalem according to the Zechariah 14 there is to be a final battle of the nations against Jerusalem. As you will see, when studying the chapter, this battle is yet to happen and Christ will return and fight for his people.
Reply by Deborah on 2015-09-19 18:20:22
Skye,
I would appreciate NT support for your interpretation of the "seasons".and "summer". Do you have direct NT scriptural references for your assertions?
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-19 18:32:31
Deborah, It's quite a lengthy scriptural explanation, and it would be difficult for me to summarize it. As I explained to Meleti it was sent to me by a friend who has done extensive study on the "last days". If you like, I could email you a copy.
Reply by Deborah on 2015-09-19 18:45:09
Perhaps putting a detailed summary on the Discuss the Truth Forum?
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 20:19:50
I would have to disagree. When Jesus said, "Look, your house is abandoned to you", it was the beginning of the end of God's special relationship with the nation of Israel. Consider the principle in Matthew 18:15-17: "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."
Jesus tried to 'gain his brothers' by preaching to the nation of Israel, but as a group, they didn't listen. Once Jesus made his declaration to them that their house was abandoned to them, he meant that it was abandoned by God. He no longer view them as His own. It's true that technically the Law covenant was kept in force for a few more years, but it was "all over but the shouting" so to speak.
Once the Jews rejected Jesus, they were no better in God's sight than any other gentile nation. They made themselves to be 'just as men of the nations'. For all intents and purposes, they ARE a gentile nation.
Thus, Jerusalem IS being rules by a gentile nation - the modern nation of Israel itself.
People who hold emotional attachments to modern day Israel will understandably not agree with that assessment. But it is God's view of matters that is important, not our own. In like manner, the land around Jerusalem is often called "the Holy Land". But mere land is not and cannot be holy. Only the actions carried out by people upon that land can determine whether the land is holy or not. What is that land being used for today? Does any modern day activities on the so-called "Holy Land" by any political or religious entities serve to honor God? Or do they dishonor Him? It was the righteous actions of persons like Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus that made the land holy. To merely occupy that former 'real estate' by political entities that do not share the faith or godly devotion of those persons of old is not enough to render that land, or any other, holy.
Comment by Skye on 2015-09-19 17:18:57
Meleti, Keeping these scriptures in mind: Luke 16:8; Mark 8:38; Matthew 11:16 (Mark 8:38); Proverbs 30:11 - where it appears that "generation" (genea) is referring to a type of people/ society of people, and not therefore to 40 or 80 years.
Is it possible, therefore, that in Matthew 23:35 where is says "you" will be held accountable, could "this generation" in verse 36 reach back 400 years to the murderers of Zechariah? If that were the case then that could be the generation that continues until the second coming of Jesus Christ and not 70 CE.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-19 17:42:40
The word "generation", like most words, can mean more than one thing depending on the context. Your take on it is similar to something Apollos wrote about a couple of years ago. (See "This Generation" and the Jewish People.) I took that into consideration in my analysis. However, the context of Matthew 21 through 24 does not support that application in my opinion.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-19 18:14:33
Meleti, what I'm referring to is not just related to the Jewish people, of course, but including them along with the wicked world system until replaced by the Kingdom at Jesus' second coming. Would you agree then that what I have stated about Matthew 23:35,36 is a possibility, especially if you take into account Jesus' words at Matthew 23:39 "For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-19 20:11:10
Incidentally, with regard to my comment above, taken in context, the "generation" of Matthew 24:34 relates to the then present world system which would continue until Jesus returns and replaces it with his Kingdom.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 08:15:28
Those who experienced "all the things" he spoke of died in 70 C.E. Yet they will live again. Rather than think of the generation of people spanning 6,000 years, we can look to the Bible for the definition and how it relates to Mt 23:39.
In the same context (Luke 11:50, 51) in which Jesus made "this generation" responsible for the blood spilt since Abel, he says the following:
“For just as Joʹnah became a sign to the Ninʹe·vites, so will the Son of man be to this generation. 31 The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with the men of this generation and will condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solʹo·mon. But look! something more than Solʹo·mon is here. 32 The men of Ninʹe·veh will rise in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at what Joʹnah preached. But look! something more than Joʹnah is here.” (Lu 11:30-32)
So the generation that saw "all these things" spoken of from Matthew 21:1 to Matthew 24:2 will return in the resurrection. Surely then Matthew 23:39 will be fulfilled.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 08:07:36
Since we must consider the context, we cannot stop at 400 years, but must reach back to Abel, also mentioned here. If the murderer of Abel is part of the "you" and "generation", then we have a generation reaching back almost 4,000 years and forward 2,000 years. A 6,000 year generation. Such a thing is not suggested by Luke 16:8; Mark 8:38; Matthew 11:16 (Mark 8:38); Proverbs 30:11.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-20 11:06:49
Matthew 23:35. When Jesus is considering "you", he apparently is not referring to contemporaries because the Pharisees were not "personally" responsible for the death of the prophet of 2 Chron. Therefore when Jesus used the pronoun "you" he was incorporating a group of people living over such an extended period of time, the point being that they were the same in that they were evil/wicked.
As an example of such a way of thinking by Jesus is Matthew 28:19,20 when he said to the apostles, "I will be with you to the end of the age." Those who he spoke to have long died, but includes the disciples who come after them up until the end of the age.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 11:32:18
Granted. That distinction was explained in the article. The blood guilt of all past wicked generations making up the Devil's seed was to be heaped upon the current generation, contemporary with Jesus. Previous generations killed the prophets, but the accumulation of sin reached its breaking point with the killing of God's Son as he foretold in parables. Thus Mt 24:34 was fulfilled in the first century.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-20 12:59:30
What about Matthew 24:29,30? Jesus did not reappear immediately after 70 CE.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 15:59:37
That's one of the points to be covered in the next article.
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 16:40:22
The Pharisees were not literally responsible, but they were spiritually responsible. How so?
Who was responsible for shedding the blood of Abel? Cain. What was the motive for Cain murdering Abel? A dispute over what form of worship/religion was approved of by God. Zechariah was killed in the time of King Jehoash who failed to adhere to true worship but succumbed to pagan influences around him.
At the time Jesus uttered his words in Matthew 23:35, the Pharisees had not yet been literally responsible for Jesus' death, but they already had demonstrated the murderous hatred that would lead to it. Just like Jesus' earlier words (how a man could be unfaithful to his wife in his heart, even if he hadn't yet actually committed the wrongdoing), the Pharisees were spiritually responsible by reason of being part of false religion, which over the centuries has provided the rationale and moral justification for taking lives, among other things.
For instance, every religion seems to either approve or provide the religious or philosophical 'framework' to justify participation in wars. They all say God is on their side, they pray for soldiers, officiate at military funerals, and so on. They incite religious and racial hatreds between national groups, "egging them on" so to speak. What makes all those things 'conscionable' in the minds of those involved? It is in large part the religious teachings that provided the underpinnings, that gave the "green light" for persons to either do or not do something.
It's not because the Pharisees were in the same generation as Abel was. It was because they were spiritually responsible. Each individual, in the many generations that have come and gone over the centuries, were of the same like-minded spirit, the same spirit as manifested in the original manslayer, the Devil. That is why Jesus said that the father of the Pharisees was the Devil. Not that the Devil was their great, great ... grandfather, but their father. He was their father in a spiritual sense, and that has nothing to do with generations.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 17:24:35
Well said. I agree completely!
Comment by Iregularpublisher but disciple of Christ on 2015-09-19 18:11:40
Meleti, great article! I believe that sometimes a logical easy explination is the correct one. I too will wait for part 2 to say any more
Comment by Anonymous on 2015-09-19 18:31:37
Matthew 1:17 tells us, "All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were fourteen generations, and from David until the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ fourteen generations."
Taking the deportation as 587 BCE, and the appearance of the baptized Christ as 29 CE, then 587 + 29 = 616.
616 / 14 generations = an average of 44 years per generation.
If we look even further back, David is said to have been born around 1040. If we accepted the WT chronology of David (which seems to be reasonably close), in which they claim he began his rule in 1077 BCE at the age of 30, that would make his birth 1047 BCE.
1047 + 29 = 1076 years from David to Christ.
1076 / 28 (two sets of 14 generations) = an average of 38.4 years per generation.
It would be good if we could continue this process for the first set of 14 generations, but there are a few problems doing that. First, the chronology is much more uncertain so far back in time, and second, average lifespans were longer then; Abraham is reported to have lived 175 years. Thus, there was evidently a longer passage of time for the first group of 14 than for the other two groups. Since Jesus' words were spoken in the first century, it's more important to know the meaning of the word "generation" as understood by Jesus and his contemporaries, rather than the length of a generation some 2,000 years previously.
This extended consideration of generations gives added weight to the belief that a "generation" as understood and spoken about by Jesus was about 40 years. Since the time from the inception of Jesus' ministry (just before 30 CE) and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE is within that 40-year period, it seems pretty clear that the words of Matthew and the facts of history agree that one generation was about 40 years. If the length of a generation was a common fact known to the Jews for at least 28 generations prior to Jesus, why would the understanding of this suddenly change after Jesus uttered his famous prophecy? That wouldn't make sense. Whatever additional significance we might wish to attach to this word, it has a literal meaning, and it's true meaning is not even very controversial.
That being so, our understanding today of Jesus' words about generations needs to take this into account.
(See the prior Beroean Pickets article about Generations for more information on this topic.)Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-19 21:34:37
It's always risking doing math in a hurry. But it has a happy ending.
If David became king in 1077 BCE when he was 30 years old, we have to add (NOT subtract) his age to get his birth year (because BCE dates get bigger going backwards), which would make David's year of birth 1077+30 = 1107 BCE. Then, from David to Christ would be 1107 + 29 = 1136 years, rather than 1076 shown above.
Since this is two sets of 14 generations, 1136 / 28 = 40.5 years as the average length of a generation, "amortized" over 28 generations. This is even closer to 40 than the (close, but) incorrectly calculated number above.
Since the Jews of Jesus' day would have understood that a generation was 40 years long, and would have had such knowledge - gained through observations for over a thousand years - they would have no reason to conclude otherwise in the first century that a generation was anything other than 40 years.
Comment by Alien Resident on 2015-09-19 18:58:45
Thanks Meleti, I like the point about"truly " and context of events that Jesus spoke about, being"this" generation, and "all these things", yes their generation twould be eye-witness to those events. Jesus’ words to his four apostles, Andrew, Peter, James and John, in 33 C.E. About describing those events, Jesus said:
“This generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” – Matthew 24:34
Clearly, the generation Jesus was referring to in that discussion was the generation of the four men he was speaking to. That is surely what the four men thought. Jesus spoke in a common dialect. Unfortunately Some believe Jesus words are cryptic, or have a different meaning, to what the apostles must of understood and know doubt once they receive the Holy Spirit , would of clarified Any doubts to its simple meaning, in a letter to the 1st century congregation. If they thought differently.
Comment by Vox Ratio on 2015-09-19 22:46:51
Hi Meleti,
Thanks for the time and effort you’ve put into this.
I tend to agree that the most obvious understanding of the generation passages are likely to be understood as you have explained them. In fact, given that the destruction of Jerusalem is within the purview of “all these things” then it would seem that Jesus thereby bounded the context for any of the other “things” he had in mind as well (cf. Mt. 24:34). In other words, if Jerusalem’s demise was understood to be a part of “these things”, then it ipso facto follows that “these things” are confined to the same time frame too.
If this reasoning is correct, then it seems to me that there are two important temporal markers that can be read out of Christ’s words – one for his immediate disciples, and the other for those who would come after; a future and a past pointer, if you will. As for the first, this concerned the people who understood the generation as applying to themselves, namely, those living at the time. Regarding the second, this concerned the people who would understand that the “things” described by Christ were circumscribed by Jerusalem’s existence thus ensuring a fixed context when reading these passages historically.
Lastly, I don’t want to detract from what I consider to be an excellent missive, but I did want to highlight a minor point of clarification in your footnote. Specifically, there really isn’t such a thing as a Preterist – strictly defined – since debates rage amongst them as to the true eschatological scope of the NT. As such, advocates for this type of model usually fall into one of two camps, either Full Preterism (realised eschatology) or Partial Preterism (so called orthodox preterism). Gary DeMar would be a good example of the former, while Ken Gentry would be of the latter (incidentally, Gentry raises some intriguing questions concerning the dating of John’s apocalypse [see Before Jerusalem Fell]).
At any rate, I look forward to reading your next instalment.
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 01:00:30
I read a book recently called Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation by a guy called Philip Mauro. He was around in Russells time and spoke against dispensationalism, Zionism, amongst other things. Its a really good read. He also wrote The Wonders of Bible Chronology, which is basically a summary of Martin Ansteys book The Romance of Bible Chronology, a look at true bible chronology without secular sources. The Persian period comes up 82 years short with a proper application of Daniels prophecy and the decree of Cyrus, and puts real doubt on Ptolemys canon after the Babylonian period, which is proven. Once again, fascinating. Interesting this man stopped smoking instantly the moment he realised it was unchristian, and spoke against pagan holidays.We are talking around the year 1905. There is obvious spiritual depth and discernment in his writings.
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 02:57:19
Russell used a modified version of dispensationalism which teaching originated with John Darby (The Exclusive Brethren). Russell was also a Zionist, but we denounced Zionism as being of Satan around the 1950's. 606 BCE is a Nelson Barbour teaching, he just got Russell to accept it. They both knew full well the destruction of Jerusalem was in 587, it just didn't fit with Barbour's cyclical Sabbath year thingy. Nelson Barbour was an ex-Millerite, as were most of Russell's friends at that time. Great beginnings. One of Millers teachings was that Michael the archangel is Jesus, and it was pointed out to him that he was in error on this and therefore his prophecy would fail. It did. Ellen White was a young girl listening to Millers lectures. SDA's still teach Michael the archangel being Jesus to his day (sound familiar?) If everything has spawned from a falsehood, then it can only generate more falsehood. That is why 1843 became 1873 (the bridegroom tarried), became 1874 (parousia means presence now as Christ still hadn't returned visibly), became a 40 year time of trouble/harvest to 1914, became this generation which saw 1914, millions now living will never die etc, etc. In 1922 Watchtower articles on Chronology said to repudiate the above dates from Russell, the parallel dispensations, even Rutherfords 1925 date, was to repudiate the Lord Jesus himself. Strong words indeed. If we stopped this whole parallel dispensation/ dual fulfillment thing, the problems would disappear. If 1914 is wrong, the generation teaching must also, by extension...be right (scratching head) The chronology was found out to be incorrect by about 100 years not so long back, so 1874 became....1975. (cue Bee Gees music)
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 07:53:45
This is somewhat OT, but I wonder if anyone could comment on, or at least point me in the right direction, about the Jesus is Michael the Archangel debate, since it was brought up in the comment above. I know many object to it on grounds that an archangel is a created being, and that doesn't work for believers of the trinity. If we accept that there is no trinity and that Jesus was created, what then is the objection to equating the two? Is there good reason for believing Jesus is Michael, or not? Or do we simply not know for sure?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 07:57:52
There is a topic titled "Is Jesus Michael" on Discuss the Truth.
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 16:54:06
Reasons against Michael being Jesus, off the top of my head. Hebrews Chaper 1. Michael is "one" of the chief princes. Michael did not rebuke Satan, but Jesus did not hesitate (Jude). Jesus is going to be accompanied by an archangels voice and the sound of God's trumpet. Because he has God's trumpet does that mean he is God? Hardly. And why would Jude in context flip between using Jesus name and Michael if they are merely the same being? The answer is obvious. William Miller got it wrong, unfortunately for us. There will be many false prophets. Read Philip Mauros The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation for an understanding of how Daniels prophecy was perfectly fulfilled in Jesus and how it coincided with the Great Tribulation. Jesus even referred to it (let the reader use discernment). Here are some links to his stuff.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1921_mauro_seventy-weeks.html
https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Mauro%2C+Philip%22
Reply by Mark-O on 2015-09-20 19:40:14
My big question I ask others is why does Hebrews even begin with the subject of angels?
Always plural "angels" as well? I know what some people think well after the fact of the books writing and its initial Hebrew audience. But given the Jewish context it originally emerged within, why start the entire premise of the book with the very subject of angels? To support Christendom eisegesis?
Is it because the Hebrews were interested in a certain angel they knew of well? (Rather than the post Christendom ideas to support their various theologies.)
And that it was being explained to them why that angel "has become better than the angels" to an "extent that" his name has taken on its elevated meanings in the promises and prophecies of Psalm 2 and Psalm 110?
As with this article, I do belive understanding the mindset of the original audience is where the answer lies.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 08:25:20
Did you mean the 1850s, not 1950s? You should still be able to edit it, as there's a 24-hour window before a comment is locked down.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 08:22:54
I appreciate knowing that, Vox Ratio.
I've amended the footnote to clarify that not all preterists see things the same way and added a link to your comment for clarification.
Many thanks,
Meleti
Comment by Susan on 2015-09-20 09:25:40
Another case of "You're so vain, you probably think this bible verse is about you."
And I like the part about the badly timed car engine - I've had a few of those. lolReply by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 12:40:12
Funny. Where's Carly Simon when you need her? Oh, wait. The GB are now officially rock stars. Guess we don't need CS after all :-))
Comment by Sumosect (Exjw) on 2015-09-20 13:50:22
I'm completely faded. I read your articles, they give me a more believe able viewpoint...
What is the WTBS basis for second fulfillments? I still can't grasp the idea except for, "This is what we think, and you're an apostate for thinking otherwise."
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 16:01:06
True. In fact, without secondary or antitypical fulfillments, they would have no basis whatsoever for the claim that Jesus appointed them as the faithful and discreet slave in 1919.
Comment by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 21:51:37
This is known as buying more time. Plain and simple. The question is "Why are we still trying to figure out times and seasons?" It will happen when it happens. But hopefully in my generation....
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 22:55:31
My feelings exactly.
Reply by 1984 on 2015-09-21 10:18:05
Yes. It's clear that when their interpretation of "this generation" became stretched in the early 90s they had two choices. 1. Abandon 1914 as the anchor point. 2. Redefine "this generation". Obviously the first option was not possible because so much Watchtower theology depends on that flawed date. Regarding the second option, I find it conspicuous that it took them 15 years to redefine that term after they abandoned it in 1995. During that time is was omitted from new publications and avoided in the field ministry. Now it's back with abandon, more confused than ever. This is hardly what one would expect of a spirit directed organisation (among many other things.) Surely Jesus knew what he meant when he said those words and would still understand them 1900 years later? If Jesus really is the head of this organisation then he is deliberately misleading us, or perhaps bipolar at best. Never may that be so! Instead, we see this for what it is: the work of men. It's just more fear mongering and smacks of desperation now. Of course, for those of us whose lives have been adversely impacted or even destroyed by that interpretation, it's not such a small matter.
Comment by Anonymous on 2015-09-20 21:57:41
How do you illustrate eisegesis? What scripture would you choose? I'll give you a moment. Well, I pick this one. Fantastic, well exsplaned (sic)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-20 22:55:07
:)
Comment by menrov on 2015-09-21 04:51:05
Thanks Meleti, I now start to wonder why there is so much focus on THIS GENERATION. Like that information is important to the generation Jesus was talking about. It was not, not at all. It was only important to the apostles with him as it was a confirmation to them that the events Jesus just spoke about would happen in their life time. In other words, the reference to generation was to provide confidence to the apostles that His words were not for a far distant future. As Jesus did not know the exact day or hour, He could only provide a period in which it would happen: during this generation, the generation alive when He spoke the word. But the generation itself would not be an indication or help to identify events.
It had nothing to do with calculating future generations whatsoever but purely to indicate a timeframe in which the events would take place but without naming a day or hour because He could not do that.
I am surprised that I allowed myself to follow the concept of the WT for many years regarding their interpretation of generation, which is entirely based on their 1914 doctrine. If Jesus was not able to mention the year/day/hour on which the events regarding Jerusalem would happen, why did I think the WT was able to calculate 1914 as a milestone year and that this milestone year could be used as a baseline to calculate further events........Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-21 08:42:11
Hi Menrov.
I think the renewed emphasis on the generation is to try to bolster a flagging enthusiasm amongst the rank and file by reinvigorating the state-of-fear mentality. If we can again calculate how very close the end is (As Splane said, all the members of the GB are part of the generation and they're not getting any younger) then we can feel that we only have a few years, so now is not the time to miss meetings, decrease our service time, or stop donating.
Reply by 1984 on 2015-09-21 10:00:16
I think you are 100% correct. It occurs to me also that if the esoteric knowledge the Watchtower uses to calculate the date 1914 is taken from the book of Daniel, surely Jesus of all people would have been able to work that out while he was on Earth, given that he was a keen bible student as we know, and also referred to that same book in this same prophecy regarding Jerusalem, according to Luke's account. Admittedly the book of Revelation hadn't been written, and that is a revelation from Jesus, but this knowledge was unknown to him when he was on the Earth, so why would he be speculating about details he had no knowledge of? And if he did have that knowledge, why would he warn against calculating dates?
Comment by Skye on 2015-09-21 06:33:44
Meleti, the difference that you and I appear to have is our understanding of the meaning in scripture of the term "generation" according to Jesus words. My understanding is that "genea", in harmony with scripture, can "also" have the sense of "age" or "indefinite period of time." As we know in order to come to an accurate understanding of Jesus words at Matthew, Mark and Luke etc. we have to take into account OT prophecies as Jesus did.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-21 08:47:00
Hi Skye,
I'm not aware of any OT prophecies that impact on Jesus' words at Mt 23:36 and 24:34. If you like, you could open a topic in www.discussthetruth.com to expound on your understanding more fully. It's entirely up to you, of course. I respect your point of view.
Meleti
Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-21 13:34:50
There are difficulties with assuming "genea" to mean "age", which is a minor translation of the Greek word, according to Strong's, which describes genea=age as "the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years". It only appears to mean "indefinite period of time" when "genea" is repeated in the sentence (as in, generation after generation, for instance), which it is not repeated in the verses under discussion. Asserting that "genea" means some kind of very long "age", far outside the span of about a 40-year generation, is not warranted by the grammar of the Greek text. I don't believe that taking OT prophecies into account is enough to overcome such concerns. You would have to show us specific OT prophesies, and explain how and why they make any difference to the matter at hand here.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-21 16:37:01
Anonymous, Thank you. As you will see from Meleti's reply to my comment, he has suggested DTT if I wish to explain OT prophecies in relation to the discussion. Unfortunately, and I apologise for this, I do not have the time, nor the energy at present, to take part in DTT. The important thing is that when we speak of scripture, we must ensure that it is the truth, and that is my determination, as I am sure it is yours too.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 "and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." A love for the truth is necessary for salvation, and if we do not love the truth it is counted as wickedness. We see therefore it is vital to believe all of Jesus' teachings, and this requires diligent study. As we read the NT it is apparent that the disciples were very well versed in all the Holy Prophets, and in order to understand the teachings of Jesus, that is a requirement for us today as members of his church.
Please be assured that I am not implying that anyone here is not well versed in scripture.
Comment by Skye on 2015-09-24 17:53:46
Meleti, This is with regard to someone's comment relating to Luke 21:24. It's not directly related to the length of "this generation" because you have suggested I take that to the DTT. However, the following is an example of how the OT prophecies figure in Jesus' words, and does, I think, therefore adds further understanding to the discussion.
Luke 21:24 "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
In Luke 21:24, Jesus was quoting from Zechariah 12:3 LXX (not Hebrew) "It will come to pass in that day that I will make Jerusalem a stone trampled on, trodden on by all the nations. Everyone who tramples on it will utterly mock at it and all the nations of the earth will be gathered against Jerusalem."
These scriptures are also linked to Daniel and Revelation.
Comment by Skye on 2015-09-26 15:58:22
Meleti, I know this has been mentioned before, but I was thinking perhaps the following is also relevant to the discussion:
Romans 11:1 "I ask then: did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin."
Romans 11:25-28 "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins. As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs."
"all Israel" of course would refer to a remnant.Reply by Anonymous on 2015-09-26 21:50:00
"“all Israel” of course would refer to a remnant"
Or it could actually refer to exactly what it says it refers to: "all Israel"Reply by Skye on 2015-09-27 03:18:03
Not if you compare it with rest of scripture.
Reply by Menrov on 2015-09-27 04:01:42
Why would it mean remnant if it read all Israel? If the first was meant, why did the writer not use that word? It is not a difficult word.....
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-27 04:17:41
Hi Menrov, It could not be referring to every literal Jew of course. But rather a "collective" remnant of Jews that would make up "national Israel" and so then it could be said that "all Israel will be saved."
Reply by Menrov on 2015-09-27 04:43:23
Hi Skye, ok, I see what you mean. :-)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-27 09:29:51
This is something I've been wondering about for some time. Israel lost out, but a remnant of Israel was given undeserved kindness. Israel's loss opened the way for the gentiles to join in as children of God, as part of the Israel of God. (Gal 6:16)
By this means, "all Israel" can be saved. This brings to mind Romans 8:21: "that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God."
All creation is saved by means of the children of God, the seed of the woman. So Israel will also be saved by this means. This doesn't mean every man and woman of course because we have to factor in free will, but the nation as a whole from its start under Moses, or if you like, back to Abraham, and then right down to the end will be saved in this manner.
So even though they lost out on the special privilege of being the only means by which the nations are saved, they still--together with the gentile nations--will be blessed by the seed of Abraham. (Ge 18:18)
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-27 12:53:44
So Abraham's inheritance and the Christian inheritance is the same (Galatians 3:8)
Romans 4:11 "And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them."
Paul spoke of fleshly Israel, 1 Corinthians 10:18 (now unconverted Israel) as distinct from "Spiritual Israel" at Galatians 6:16 and Philippians 3:3.
According to OT prophecies there will be a conversion of now blinded fleshly Israel. This will take place during the yet future Great Tribulation.
Zechariah 13:8,9 "In the whole land, declares the Lord, two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it. This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, "they are my people," and they will say, "The Lord is our God.""
Zechariah 14:2 "I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city." (Read on)
At Romans 11:1,25,26,27 Paul assumes the Kingdom to be restored to fleshly Israel. So although Israel failed in its calling to be the chosen people of God, according to a mass of OT prophecies Israel will be restored. At that time National Israel and Spiritual Israel (the Church) will come together. The meek will inherit the earth, but the Kingdom will rule from Jerusalem.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-09-27 13:38:40
Sorry, Skye, but I just don't see it from what you've quoted above. It seems like interpretation based on assumptions.
Reply by Skye on 2015-09-28 09:07:19
Understandable. As we know JWs have not done a diligent study of the OT, and much of which they have seriously interpreted incorrectly as a result. Perhaps the above scriptures will help in giving people a start in their further studies.
Reply by Cazenovi on 2016-02-21 23:06:34
The seed of Abraham is the 'all Israel' which are both "sands", earthly/redeemable mankind AND "stars", spiritual- Israel of God/Spiritual Israel. Both are 'saved' as children of God with different designations: earth or heaven.
One of my favorite references on the topic from Reprint WT(1874-1916):
Watchtower Reprint 2522:page223 “No one can rightly appreciate the hopes and ambitions aroused in the minds of the Jewish nation by the Lord through the holy prophets, except as he realizes the fact that Spiritual Israel has taken the place in large measure of natural Israel, whose branches were broken off, that we who were of the Gentiles might be grafted in and become heirs of the chiefest, the heavenly, the spiritual features of those promises. Nevertheless, we are to remember that there are also earthly features of those promises, which the Apostle assures us are still sure, and reserved for the natural seed of Abraham, and through the latter to extend to all the families of the earth, that whosoever will may become of the earthly seed of Abraham: for Abraham’s seed is to be of two parts–“as the stars of heaven” and “as the sand of the seashore.”– Rom. 11:26-33 ; Gen. 22:17 . … ”
Watchtower Reprint 5092:page277 “The Scriptures also show that there are two Israels, one of which is to be as the “stars of heaven” and the other as the “sand of the seashore.” ( Gen. 22:17 ; Isa. 8:14 ; I Cor. 10:18 ; Gal. 6:16 .) Natural Israel was used of God to make types of the spiritual things–the “better things.” … “Reply by Cazenovi on 2016-02-22 11:13:35
I make the case that Abraham's earthly seed "will fill the earth" which is the whole of redeemable mankind. Also that the Apostle gives the thought of stars of the heaven as an undefined number just as the sand of the shore is undefined in number. And that stars are arranged and have an order, therefore the number 144,000 seems to emphasize this symbolic notion.
Comment by Skye on 2015-10-04 06:14:42
Meleti, an interesting point I came across in my on going study of Matthew 24, and in relation to your article. As we know Jesus discourse was about the end of the age and his second coming. Thinking about that and the temple again - reading through Haggai, it can be noted that in the Hebrew mind, a temple that you see in front of you can also be a temple that is not yet built - that would refer to a temple that used to be there and yet to be built. I was thinking that this could be an example of why the temple Jesus was talking about in answer to his disciples' question in Matthew 24:1,2,3 could be a future temple, and thus making 70 CE a type and not a fulfilment of Jesus prophecy.
Comment by Cazenovi on 2016-02-22 11:15:22
(to put it in one thread)
The seed of Abraham is the ‘all Israel’ which are both “sands”, earthly/redeemable mankind AND “stars”, spiritual- Israel of God/Spiritual Israel. Both are ‘saved’ as children of God with different designations: earth or heaven.
One of my favorite references on the topic from Reprint WT(1874-1916):
Watchtower Reprint 2522:page223 “No one can rightly appreciate the hopes and ambitions aroused in the minds of the Jewish nation by the Lord through the holy prophets, except as he realizes the fact that Spiritual Israel has taken the place in large measure of natural Israel, whose branches were broken off, that we who were of the Gentiles might be grafted in and become heirs of the chiefest, the heavenly, the spiritual features of those promises. Nevertheless, we are to remember that there are also earthly features of those promises, which the Apostle assures us are still sure, and reserved for the natural seed of Abraham, and through the latter to extend to all the families of the earth, that whosoever will may become of the earthly seed of Abraham: for Abraham’s seed is to be of two parts–“as the stars of heaven” and “as the sand of the seashore.”– Rom. 11:26-33 ; Gen. 22:17 . … ”
Watchtower Reprint 5092:page277 “The Scriptures also show that there are two Israels, one of which is to be as the “stars of heaven” and the other as the “sand of the seashore.” ( Gen. 22:17 ; Isa. 8:14 ; I Cor. 10:18 ; Gal. 6:16 .) Natural Israel was used of God to make types of the spiritual things–the “better things.” … “
I make the case that Abraham’s earthly seed “will fill the earth” which is the whole of redeemable mankind. Also that the Apostle gives the thought of stars of the heaven as an undefined number just as the sand of the shore is undefined in number. And that stars are arranged and have an order, therefore the number 144,000 seems to emphasize this symbolic notion.
Comment by Trials and Tribulations | Beroean Pickets - Bible Study Forum on 2016-07-04 14:23:53
[…] the third article of the “This Generation” series (Mt 24:34) some questions were left unanswered. Since then, I’ve realized that the list has […]
Comment by Are We in the Last Days? | Beroean Pickets - Bible Study Forum on 2017-05-31 14:03:55
[…] they were allowed to know? The meaning of the generation of Matthew 24:34 was discussed in detail here. Summarizing those articles, we can say that “all these things” applies to what he said […]
Comment by This Generation – A Modern Day Fulfillment? | Beroean Pickets on 2017-09-22 13:13:33
[…] In a previous article, we were able to establish that in all likelihood Jesus was referring to the wicked generation of Jews of his day when he gave his disciples the assurance found at Matthew 24:34. (See This Generation’ – A Fresh Look) […]
Comment by Putting Matthew 24 to Bed | Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2017-11-24 12:09:13
[…] aspects of this prophecy on our sister site, Beroean Pickets – Archive, examining the meaning of “this generation” (vs. 34), determining who the “he” is in vs. 33, breaking down the three-part question […]