WT Study: Is Your Conscience a Reliable Guide?

Comment by on 2015-11-03 17:43:03

I enjoy your articles Meleti. I like the alcohol used as an antiseptic illustration. Nice one. Where do you draw the line with some of this stuff? The four major components rule would appear to come from men, not God Almighty. Paul resisted and did not give in for a moment to those who came in to spy on the glorious freedom we have in Christ. (Gal 2:4-6) We strain out the gnat alright

• Reply by Wild Olive on 2015-11-04 04:01:06

  The comment on the article echoes something I have observed in myself and others,is that in the JW religion there isn't really such a thing as a bible trained conscience,it's an organizationally trained conscience,which can only function around organizationally policy and procedures,without that it doesn't work or requires OMG bible study to find out what to do !?

Comment by Father jack on 2015-11-03 18:33:41

Meleti this experience with the reports actually happened to me . When i was an elder when the circuit overseer came around the secretary did not include my report on the congregation list . He and the PO at the time noticed that i had no report for that month and insisted that i submit one . I had been thinking about the verse in matthew 6 and became very uncomfortable with the whole process . I asked the PO where was the scriptural precident in the bible for such a thing and he just said i had to submit one because it was a requirement of the watchtower , i said i dont care wether it is or not if its not from the bible then im not doing it . I had had enough of the rubbish by then . At the elders meeting that night the CO called me an irregular elder in front of all the other elders . The guy didnt even have the decency to speak to me personally about the matter or even ask me why ? I wouldnt mind but there were those sitting there among the other elders that were not even meeting with thier own groups and i had had to take thier groups ministry arrangements and go out with them . These were the brothers he was choosing for assembly parts . I just got sick of the whole thing the unscriptual nature of the reporting , the favouritism the sucking up when the CO arrived making a big show of zeal for the week . Any shortly after he had gone most of the elders took off on holidays for weeks to stay at thier holiday homes and others were on builds at home and abroad leaving me and another elder to cope with taking all the meeting parts . By the end of the thursday night after the meeting i became very stressed and angry and resigned as an elder just sick of the whole thing . Sorry about the rant . Thanks for the article again .

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-03 23:01:50

  The occasional rant is good for the soul. :)

• Reply by 1984 on 2015-11-04 00:34:12

  Father Jack, I had a similar experience. Once, as an elder, during the CO's meeting with the Elders and Servants, the CO printed up a list of average hours for the past 12 months to try to shame the entire servant body. Everybody's hours were below the national average, and my name was at the bottom of the list despite the fact I had auxiliary pioneered three times during those 12 months. I put my hand up and pointed that out to him, and he replied that he had excluded pioneer months from the averages. Can you believe that? I was the only elder or servant who had pioneered at all in the previous two years and been out there with the other pioneers and he put me at the bottom of the class! He conveniently stripped 150 hours from my faithful service. He was an idiot and on a power trip anyway, maybe he was the same one you had? I'm an ozzie too ;-) More recently I decided not to report at all. In truth I hadn't been witnessing for months but had been putting in a token report to cover myself as I started my fade. I decided after the RC in July this year that enough was enough and to stop once and for all, my wife too. I got harassed by my overseer for that report, despite the negligence of the body to fulfil their roles as shepherds in all other respects (like doing shepherding calls or showing genuine love.) It was the only thing any of them had bothered to follow up on with me for many years, which goes to show that they are more interested in administration than Christianity. It's the numbers that count!
  It doesn't matter anymore. Every hour I ever spent in the ministry was a waste of time. Thank God I'm free from that bloodguilt!

Comment by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-03 20:45:04

The irony in all the rules about blood components vs. blood fractions is that that there is no real rationale to distinguish the two. What is the difference between a component and a fraction? The medical profession doesn't really treat these differently. But beyond that, consider all the blood "fractions" that WT views as matters of conscience. What would happen if you combined all these fractions together, and mixed them into saline solution (simple salt water)? You'd basically have just reconstituted whole blood, or a really close approximation to it.
Notable is that WT prohibits the use of white blood cells. However, the bulk of our white cells are present in tissues rather than in liquid blood, and those white cells become part of any transplanted organ, a procedure that WT views as a conscience matter.
Likewise, when a new mother breastfeeds her baby, there are white cells in the milk. If WT stood on principle, they would prohibit the nursing of babies, since it amounts to a transfusion of white blood cells.

Comment by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-03 21:02:15

There is also the obvious difficulty that the command to abstain from blood fundamentally cannot be fully obeyed, since we all have blood.
Consider: Suppose an alcoholic were told to abstain from alcohol, but choose to ignore that advice, and consumed so much that their life was at risk. Let us assume that there was some medical procedure that could remove alcohol. Wouldn't the doctors want to use such a procedures to alleviate the problem caused by failing to abstain from alcohol?
If we are told to abstain from blood, and we assume this is a universal, absolute rule, then we could ensure we abstained from blood by having all our blood drained. That would kill us, of course, but at least we would be certain to be compliant with this rule. Of course, doing so would be carrying a rule to a ridiculous extreme. But, is misapplying and distorting a scriptural principle intended to respect life into an edict that takes life is just as extreme and ridiculous.
I am more than willing to concede that, in principle, blood belongs to God. However, with all due respect to God, while I am alive, my blood belongs to me. I am really certain of that: It's genetically mine, and I need it to live. If God really wants my blood (and again, I mean no disrespect in saying this), He may have it once I am done with it.

Comment by Chris on 2015-11-04 02:17:30

The WTBTS view of blood is like the Atkins Diet. You can have the hamburger but not the bread. You can't each the ketchup either.

Comment by Gogetter on 2015-11-04 06:59:20

The reporting of time has always bothered me, and when I served as an elder I always refused parts that had anything to do with reporting hours or promoting the goal of reaching at least the national average or the magic 10 hours per month.
We all know that the way publishers report their time varies from publisher to publisher and the fact that we rarely talk to anyone in most territories skews the numbers anyway. The pioneer arrangement is just another form of class distinctions that humans always fall into and just a means of marking someone's spiritual progress.
I could write a book just on this subject and how totally unscriptural this is but everyone here probably feels the same way.
We must remember that the organization uses time keeping as a thermometer of sorts of the "spiritual" temperature of each publisher. This tells the elders how well the R&F are complying with the orgs. Direction and how they are buying into the "the guardians of JW doctrine" in all things.
When a publisher has low or no service time it is a red flag that something is wrong. Many times it can indicate someone has "awakened" or has developed doubts and thus has become conflicted about teaching others what they have learned to be false. ( likely every JW on this site)
So this is really an ingenious tool the GB uses to control the R&F and spot any potential "Apostates" I remember all our shepherding calls focused on low hour publishers.
I'm still in the congregation and yes I still preach the good news about the Christ and the way I deal with this nonsense is I only report what the actual time that I speak to someone and that is very minimal. This of course is only a compromise on my part for a short time as I plan to not report at all very soon although I am visible in the ministry and I know this is going to bring on many problems but it is part of my deprograming from 42 years in the org.
Agape to all

• Reply by sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-04 08:53:53

  Gogetter,
  I appreciate your thoughts and fully concur.
  You are absolutely correct, the publisher card is essential to maintain control (and IMO is the key element for the continued existence and growth of the organization). Imagine a CO visiting a congregation for the first time and there are no publisher cards? He would be thinking, "I don't know any of these Christians, I have no idea who is real, who can I trust, who is fake?" The card gives him a heads up.
  It is exactly as you say. A brother's faith, his sincerity, his heart, his attitude, his love for Jehovah, his willingness to conform to organizational procedure..... is all judged by a man that hasn't even met you or your family..... who knows nothing of your circumstances. You and your family are judged by what is penciled on a paper card. (Matt 7:1,2; Jas 4:12) Is it not God's Word that judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart? (Heb 4:12)
  The publisher card is an all powerful control tool. Much more than just a means to identify individuals that may be weak in the congregation, or to tally up numbers to show the success of the preaching work...... the card provides crucial information for the GB (through the CO) to maintain tight control in the congregation.
  An elder or MS will be counseled (and warned of deletion) if his hourly average slips below 10. Though not written in stone, in my experience as an elder, his wife and children need to be above 5 hours for the brother's qualification not to be brought into question.
  So the "card" provides an organizational basis to remove a brother who serves that has low hours. The brother may be considered lazy, materialistic, lacking spirituality, but most importantly, a potential problem in the making. The GB is fully aware that an awakening elder will in time, struggle with reporting time. The CO has an early heads up by his declining numbers. The CO then removes the brother from his privilege, so that all in the congregation view him as "questionable". The announcement is: "So in so" is no longer an elder (MS) in the congregation." This announcement throws up a red flag. The congregation is sitting there wondering...... "what did he do, was it something bad, did he cheat on his wife?" The brother is viewed somewhat a loser by the body. To the CO, he is earmarked as potential trouble. The CO will be interested in any rumors that flow about the circuit regarding this former elder. He will be looking for a reason to direct the body (where the brother attends) to move forward and smoke the brother out.
  Having already lost the respect of the congregation, when the brother fades or DA's himself, the congregation is not shocked, they are not surprised, they expect it. They view he wasn't real, that it was Jehovah's spirit that weeded him out.
  The publisher card allows the GB (using the authority of the CO) to identify potential dissenters, and strip them of their dignity and respect before the congregation. The brother and his family are immediately judged as less than exemplary.
  This is the power of the publisher card. It is ingenious. This is the real reason we report time and (IMO) is the most compelling reason the organization has succeeded to this day.
  Sopater

  • Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-04 11:18:43

    I too am planning to stop reporting my field service within a few months - I'm just waiting for my husband to successfully fade. I have put in a very good report last month (which it was, no dishonesty at all) to totally mislead the elders into his reasons and let them think that nothing is going on at home. What will make it more difficult is that our CO has just commended the elders for reactivating all the inactive ones, and now my husband and I are going to give them two embarrassments. For them it isn't about the people, it is about the numbers and how the body of elders looks on paper.
    I was a pioneer and have always tried to help people. The result was that I started to be in conflict with the congregation: I didn't really support the groups as we preferred to go out when and where we could find people. I did streetwork right in front of the local train station and had great success. I applied all the suggestions I could as to how to do field service. And they work...
    The problem was that my field service report started to make me stand out. Eventually when we moved congregations the elders did not want to recommend me as a pioneer - one of the reasons being that I placed too many magazines. The other reason was that I hadn't attended the pioneer school due to family circumstances.
    Within 5 months in our new congregation with a territory that was reportedly completely unfruitful, I found 7 bible studies. The field is indeed very ripe. I still have a number of studies and am now endeavoring to teach them the real truth. So can I put this on my report since I am not promoting the org but only the bible? I have told my newest study that we don't really agree with what the JW's teach and that I am now also trying to study the bible intensely. So we are studying together.
    My conclusion is that if one really tries to serve Jehovah wholesouled and conscientiously, such as by not putting in a FS report and by really trying to help people instead of trying to socialize with the brothers in the field, it will naturally lead to conflict with the org. He is sifting His people out

• Reply by Menrov on 2015-11-05 10:51:09

  Counting is for some an obsession. I was attending a funeral recently. The husband (non-JW) of a JW woman died. The funeral was organized by the family and held at a funeral home. One elder during the service stood up, walked towards the back (where I was) and started to count. WHY? It is not an official WT meeting, not even organized by them etc...so WHY count.
  And as some on here already shared, it is all about numbers first as the vision is that numbers show who the people or members are, what they do, how they think. First the number, then the interview.

Comment by sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-04 07:27:05

Thank you Meleti for your perspective on this lesson. After reading the lesson this morning, I would like to share my perspective. I think the "meat" paragraphs are 7-10.
Paragraph 7 opens by saying: "Neither a branch office nor the local congregation elders are authorized to make health-care decisions for a Witness, even if he asks what to do." This sentence is a legal ploy to attempt to absolve liability should death be the result of a Witness patient refusing a blood transfusion. In the future litigation, branch lawyers can refer to this sentence as a reference. No, the organization is not liable, it's God's Word that is liable for the wrongful death. While the 4 major components of blood are mentioned, isn't it interesting that in terms of volume and dry weight, blood has 2 major constituents, water and hemoglobin, both of which are completely acceptable to the well trained Christian conscience. How is it that the Bible prohibits the 4 major components, yet overrides itself when approving the 2 major constituents? Take the red blood cell for example. The metalloprotein hemoglobin makes up about 96% of the dry weight of the red cell. The other 4% is the cell membrane. Using an apple as an analogy, the cell membrane could be compared to the peel on the apple. Imagine if in the garden the fruit that was prohibited was an apple. Imagine if Eve had reasoned, "Jehovah said to not eat the apple, but he didn't say I couldn't eat it without the skin." So it is with our blood doctrine. Imagine explaining our position to our medical professional. No, we won't accept red cells, but if the cell membrane is removed, we will? This is so convoluted we can't possibly explain it, nor can a medical professional understand it? I have spoken with some professionals. In their mind it is crystal clear, JW's are accepting blood. It's just semantics at this point. Is this not insulting to those of us with a little intelligence and a Bible trained conscience?
Paragraph 9 quotes from Romans. Was Paul referring to health supplements here, or the controversial matter of whether a Christian could eat idol meat, some of which had been strangled and contained blood?
Paragraph 10 quotes from 1 Corinthians 8 and once again, scripture is taken out of its context. Here Paul was again referring to the matter of eating idol meat. Animals which had been strangled still had congealed blood in their flesh. The weaker conscience (newer brother) might have been stumbled if he witnessed a mature brother eating idol meat in the idol temple. (1 Cor 8:10) Paul makes it clear that wasn't the meat, it was the location when you eat the meat that was the problem. It could be construed (by the weaker conscience) that a brother with a well trained conscience (if seen eating the meat in the idol temple) was engaging in idol worship. So the location was the problem, not the meat. Paul confirms this when he told Christians to not inquire about the origin of the meat sold in the meat market. (1 Cor 10:25) Paul was well aware that much of the meat sold in the market was surplus from the idol temple, some of which had not been properly bled. Did Paul seem concerned about eating blood? Paul says something similar 2 verses later. (1 Cor 10:27) He says if an unbeliever invites you to a meal (meat served most likely sacrificed to an idol, perhaps not properly bled).... Paul said, don't ask about its origin. Again, it wasn't the blood, it was about not eating it in the idol temple. If it was a sin to eat bloody meat, was not Paul authorizing his brother to sin, to violate his conscience? How does this seemingly cavalier view of Paul harmonize with the apostolic decree of Acts 15:20, 29? It does. I'll save this for another comment.
That's my take on the meat of the lesson (phun intended).
Phileo,
Sopater

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-04 08:18:20

  I appreciate the analogy with the apple. It really puts our official position into perspective and shows just how silly and Pharisaical we have become. Thanks, Sopater.

• Reply by Menrov on 2015-11-05 10:43:15

  hi sopaterofberoea, well analysed. Thanks

Comment by Buster on 2015-11-04 12:32:43

Top 8 things that is what a Bible {Obey the Organization] trained Conscience is for .
1.Can we drink alcohol, sure we can, you know Jesus did, awesome, should we get to the point of drunkenness and start acting foolishly, no of course not, but wait in the Recent November broadcast they had a photo of people at a get together drinking, and talking nothing wrong, but they sure said it was wrong.
2.Reporting time, we know Jesus always told his disciples that.... wait he did not. Woops, wait the aka Governing Body { back in thd book of Acts } of the past even if they were never never mentioned that in the past, must have surely have said that....No, so nothing ever about reporting time. OK so yeah next topic.
3.So entering another so Called church for somebody { friend or relative } marriage or sadly funeral is a conscience manner, wait I thought for years it was A big No. Wait the bible says.... Well nothing about it, but in the last years the organization has said well its up to you. But like the last year article they still try to hint hint tell people don't do.
4. You have to visit Bethel, and you better visit it cause if you haven't and went to a Amusement Park well Explain that to God. This is what Mr. Anthony Morris said ( I added a little of my flair) last year at the branch meeting. OK so its a command, nice, thanks for the input Mr Morris. You know what you can call anything Bethel, and I would gladly go to a theme park then go there to New York or where ever you are moving to. But hey thanks for the Scripture support.
5. Tattoo's wait a minute there is where I draw the line. The Bible says say I know in the Mosaic Law it said that. But now its up to you. Heck even Jw website admits well it is a conscience manner, but last year I heard a brother talking or reading about the scriptures in Leviticus 19:28. He said you can't get tattoos now, wait a minute I guess he does not go to his Jw web page cause Buddy it is up to you and you only.
6. Do Jws review movies books music Answer No, look it up on the Jw website, but the last week article of the watchtower had a main heading picture of Tv , music and movies, wow double talk oh yes. We all know theybl always tell people what is wrong or wronged . Even recently a brother have 15 TV shows and said they were bad, I want 1 of them, now I don't see nothing wrong with it, my conscience is clean, but the brother was on top of them saying no. And of course books what out what you read, and of course the INTERNET Jws worst enemy of the past Generation. Cause your history is all there.
7. Watch only what we approve, this has been a staple of course forever it seems like. But it has exploded in the past 5 years, don't watch what we don't approve, thanks Governor maybe you can have a Jws approval sticker on everything, cause you know the finished mystery and the revelation book are so up to date on good material right.!!! Thanks for your command, now somebody give me my remote dateline is starting
8. Recently the guideline's of the organization was leaked or somebody ain't down with the Organization and released it. And you the Organization does not like sports much, contact sports no way not down with that much. And they said even people doing tae bo or practicing Martial arts could lose there positions or worse you know the kicked out of the congregation thing. Nice they don't approve of fast hand movements that is what the guidelines said. Amazing thanks for our conscience in which you control.
Love to all from Buster.

Comment by Gogetter on 2015-11-04 12:37:29

Also One of the major problems with our time keeping requirements, is during the service meeting following the CO visit the part on "How did we Do? " Presented by the Field service overseer sounds like a typical "sales" meeting you would find at any company that has a sales force, it's all about numbers and increasing them, with hours, magazines, studies , RV's etc. being the focus in place of dollars.
This places a guilt trip on the publishers with the fear of not pleasing Jehovah and ultimately losing out on everlasting life, much in the same way the sales company would instill fear of the sales force losing out on the means to make a living if sales goals are not met.
Would all agree this is really negative motivation for us to do more, and more is not enough instead of letting the individual Christian decide in his heart how much he can give to the ministry only motivated out of love and not personal gain.
I'm certain that Jesus and his Father are saddened over this situation and does not require a time slip to indicate one's faith or love, after all Jehovah reads hearts.

• Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-04 13:59:21

  This pressure is seen by the fact that many don't really want to do field service, but just seem to be out there to count time and be seen. I once had a householder stop his car and tell me that it seems as if our people don't really want to do their work as he could see them milling around between the houses. But at the meetings we're told it is a search and rescue work, urgent as lives are at stake.
  It is also indeed sad that field service results, however contrived, are used to judge people. We knew a sister who was kind and generous to others in spite of her personal problems. But her husband (CoBE) kept on telling others, including us, that she wasn't very spiritual as she didn't like the field. At her funeral talk, the only positive thing the brother could say was that she kept her house clean. And a few months later her husband is remarrying... you guessed it, a long time pioneer this time. It seems that he was so blinded to her good qualities because of a bad fs report.

  • Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-05 11:31:39

    You mention how "many don’t really want to do field service". In our congregation, there was a saying, "most publishers do field service just enough to hate it". That was true for me. I had utterly no interest in field service, and the more I did it, the more pointless it seemed.
    Here is a typical Saturday morning of field service. People shuffle into the KH, half of them late. A perfunctory discussion of the daily text drags on, far longer than necessary. People barter and jostle for car group assignments. The late-comers have to get fit into the initial arrangements, except for those people who phone-in and say they will meet the group in the territory. (Waiting for, and actually finding, those people in the field, takes up even more time.) Finally, almost an hour after first showing up at the KH, people are actually in the field.
    The groups of two shuffle and walk as slowly as possible from one house to the next, in a delaying tactic to take up as much time as they can. At most doors, no one answers, to the great relief of the publishers, who mark down the address to leave a magazine when doing "not at homes". This is a useful exercise, since the householder will probably not be home the next time either, and magazines left at not-at-homes count as magazine placements. At the very few houses where people are home, a brief, clumsy presentation is muttered, which usually results in a "not interested" response. Relieved that a real explanation or Bible discussion is not going to be expected or demanded from us, we slowly trudge on.
    Sure enough, an hour of this make-work activity elapses, and the group unanimously decides to take a coffee break. The coffee break feels (emotionally) like an all-expenses-paid vacation, where religion and field service need not be discussed, and rarely are.
    After a half hour to 45 minutes spent (wasted) at the coffee shop, the group decides to coast for another half hour or so doing "calls", in which one person returns to give away yet more magazines to some householder who probably doesn't read them and never asks questions about them, while the rest of the group twiddles their thumbs, grateful and content that sitting around in the car in this way is (gloriously) also "counted as time".
    At the end of this exercise, we can all count a "good" two hours of time, in which the actual amount of time speaking to anyone about the Bible (or anything, really) is probably zero and is usually less than 10 minutes. Nothing has been accomplished, and generally NO ONE has spoken to any householders about "God's Kingdom" (either the real one or the WT version). Whenever the subject is brought up that very few people are getting contacted, the response is usually, "we are doing a gleaning work" and "at least we are making Jehovah's name known in the territory by our presence". Such self-serving excuses and rationalizations are empty and utterly unconvincing, but serve their purpose well enough to salve what little the reality troubles our consciences until we get back home and go about our personal business, relieved that this ordeal is finally over (until next Saturday).
    Do this for four weekends a month, and you have a passable FS report. The CO will only look at a piece of paper, see nothing extraordinary, and will likely not even speak to you during his visit. Everyone will assume you are a spiritually strong JW in good standing with the congregation, and by implication, on good terms with God and in line to live in paradise. If the truth of the matter is something else, no one will make inquiry. Your record of field service speaks for itself. The CO and the elders will make no inquiry.
    The reality is, such publishers are merely going through the motions of this activity to be seen by men. Their efforts are meaningless, and as noted above, even the householders know it. So the people keep saying they are "not interested"? Why SHOULD they be interested? The witnesses that show up at their doors aren't even interested themselves. Who are they kidding?
    Is it any wonder that people don't want to do this work? What's the use? The 'tipping point' for me was when a householder saw us on the other side of their street before we got to them, and crossed the street and asked us not to knock on their door - as if in a 'preemptive strike' - because they viewed being seen by their neighbors visited by witnesses as embarrassing and humiliating. It would be one thing if this work were soundly based on the Bible and not man's interpretations, but it's not. This preaching work doesn't honor God or Christ, and doesn't really enlighten people about the Bible. It just annoys people, and places a demoralizing burden on those who perform it. Only constant peer pressure could get a group of people to keep doing this, in the face of so many disincentives to overcome.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-05 12:32:05

      This is probably the most accurate description of the field service attitudes and activity of Jehovah's Witnesses which I've ever read. Thanks, Real Anonymous.

      • Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-05 14:08:29

        I forget to mention, when the car group sits around a coffee shop for 45 minutes, that time always seems to get rolled into the elapsed service time. The fact that counting time drinking coffee and engaging in personal chit-chat as "service" time is unethical and not really "serving Jehovah" is conveniently ignored - because the desire and pressure to get "two hours" of "reportable" time on a Saturday is so great. So, a "nominal" two hours of service are in actuality more like this:
        2 hours
        - 45 minutes for coffee break
        - 15 minutes wasted by late-comers and other overhead and administrative issues
        - 30 minutes doing "calls" in which 99% of the time is spend driving around doing nothing
        = 30 minutes of purportedly 'real' preaching time.
        It's not always this bad, but this is a pretty good approximation of what happens. WT loves to brag about the "billions" of hours in preaching work done, but the truth is, the actual time spent is far, far less. It's just so much fluff, with everyone trying to convince everyone else that all is well, when it's not.

        • Reply by AR on 2015-11-06 06:05:19

          There are those who don't treat it that way, however there the few, Well said twice, well After all that, can I get you a coffee

          • Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-06 09:23:20

            Ha ha, AR, I am having breakfast out, and I am drinking coffee this very moment as read your comment. If we were ever to meet, the first cup's on me.

            • Reply by Sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-06 16:25:38

              TRA -
              My wife and I had a jolly good chuckle at your portrait of the typical morning in service. Isn't it sad it's so spot on? I can add that there have been occasions where I have been able to count 2 "honest" hours in service, though never having said hello to a single soul. One suggestion I can give is to avoid ringing the bell..... knock quietly, and only once. And don't dilly dally at their door, move along. When they see you walking away, they rarely answer. I check out territories that are seldom worked, rural when possible, at the extreme of our congregation territory. I always stop at the convenience store for coffee on the way, leaving a track with the cashier (to get the clock ticking). Then I drive under the speed limit, enjoying the scenery. The trip time to and from is usually an easy hour. We work maybe one street (or road) in the territory, then it's back to town for the ritual donut break. After 30 minutes at the donut shop, we make a call or two, leaving the latest magazines (if they're not home, all the better) then it' s back to the hall, and all in the car group feel satisfied we've given Jehovah what he requires.
              Sopater

              • Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-07 08:56:14

                So, Jehovah requires the appearance of faith, but not the reality of it? Oh, that's what WT requires. But then, WT equates themselves with Jehovah, so in their eyes its the same thing, right?

            • Reply by AR on 2015-11-07 00:26:51

              Haha, awesome, it will have to be virtual coffee for now, but will never say no to that offer

    • Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-05 14:36:50

      TRA it sounds just as if you are talking about FS here in our part of Africa. You're right that it is a reproach on Jehovah - the brothers are making a spectacle out of themselves.
      No wonder I didn't fit in the congregation - I would rush into the territory to get started in the field. And if they were loitering from house to house I remedied it by doing every house myself as I wanted to reach people and do my work, get finished and go home. I found the local attitude to FS so irritating that I now avoid the groups completely.
      I really enjoy helping people learn about our Father and have been doing a lot of business territory as people are available and most have never been reached with the good news. People respond well when they sense that we care about them.
      I'm half in and half out of the cong and am now trying to work out how to do FS independently if anyone has any ideas or experiences it will help me a lot.

      • Reply by AR on 2015-11-06 05:59:33

        I have my own map, if that helps. Have your own map, invite who you want to work with you, at a time that suits you.

    • Reply by 1984 on 2015-11-05 19:37:25

      Brilliant comment, such an accurate description. This is all classic avoidance behaviour. Also cognitive dissonance as a result of the sense of obligation to do a life saving work commanded by Jesus (and our own guaranteed survival at armegeddon into a paradise earth) on the one hand, and the "demoralising burden" you describe on the other - preaching a false message that nobody wants to hear in the most ineffective way possible.
      One Cong I was in was semi-rural. Everybody would trip over themselves to do the rural territory because it meant cramming five people into a car (when two or three would have sufficed) and driving 20-30 minutes to the territory (all of which was counted.) There was some lovely scenery, 5-10 minutes drive between houses with some lovely conversation, (usually bagging out somebody else who wasn't in the car,) and stopping for morning tea after an hour with some more lovely scenery. If you timed it right you might only get out of the car once or twice, knock on an empty door and bank 2 hours. (I knew one brother who counted his time from the group at 9am, even though he was always late, because it was still "his time", would only do rurals, and then clock off when he walked through his front door at 12 - a solid 3 hours witnessing! He and another pioneer sister would include morning tea because those driving past "know who we are." Of course she had a lot of pressure to fulfill her unscriptural obligation to the organisation as a pioneer, so I could sympathise when she was stopped from preaching while the group would spend 45 minutes on morning tea and then knock off, leaving her stranded.)
      Nobody who lived in these rural territories was EVER interested - we reasoned that they "already had their paradise." But the brothers would say "somebody has to do them!" Miraculously everyone in the cong started to lose interest in the rural areas when big housing developments started to go up and encroach on the rural areas. Suddenly, nobody could be bothered with the drive. I actually redrew all the maps for the cong and deliberately included the new housing developments on the maps with the best rural witnessing, sometimes cutting them in half so every map had some solid door to door on it. The backlash was UNBELIEVABLE! I was only an MS at the time, but I made the mistake of believing in the preaching work and wanting to make sure everybody, including me, would get some value for their time, and that the pioneers would get more support and staying power from the group. Of course, I don't view it that way anymore, it was all a waste of time, but your eloquent description brought it all back!

    • Reply by Anonymous on 2015-11-06 07:10:03

      Spot on brother

Comment by jealous1 on 2015-11-04 17:39:46

When the org encourages bible study they mean choose a topic and read what a awake or a watchtower says about that topic.end of bible study

Comment by on 2015-11-04 21:09:31

This was another well-written and thought provoking article. I do feel, though, that by combining two major topics (the blood issue, and reporting field service time) it makes this less effective than if you had treated these topics separately. Perhaps you might deal with these issues separately in future essays. Otherwise, you have done a fine job here

• Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-04 22:39:31

  Thing is, with a WT review, I'm pretty much restricted to the material at hand. However, we will revisit these topics again for sure.

Comment by Father jack on 2015-11-06 02:53:08

Youve certainly got it worked out TRA . Sounds just like here in the UK field . When i was an taking a group we had a vote about when to go out i had been running an arrangement for FS on wednesday evening and were getting at least 50 % of people home . The group voted against it and wanted to go out instead in the morning when we were getting very few in . I had 4 pioneers in that group one of which was also an elder . I carried on with the evening arrangement with just a few brothers . A few months later i was critisised at the elders meeting for leading the brothers out on the evening work . They said i was a bad example as i was frightening old people in our territory with calling in the evening . I wasnt even going around pensioners bungalows . By the way the pioneers always used to work together one morning after about 45 mins i suggested we swop they said oh we need to do calls now . I dont think i ever got to work with them .

• Reply by Anonymous on 2015-12-09 14:57:52

  Thank you brother, I thought this only happened in my cong in the UK!

Comment by Gogetter on 2015-11-06 09:50:31

I will be the first one to point out what is wrong with the methods used by the org when it comes to the ministry and it generally starts with time keeping and status titles like pioneer and of course the general message. But let us not be harsh with our comments about our brothers and sisters who engage in the preaching, remembering many of us were "whole souled "in the same system at one time.
Let us "hate" the system not the participants much as we should be like Christ and hate the sin not the sinner.
Most of our brothers are in service because they want to serve Jehovah and follow Jesus in the preaching of the Good News, most sincerely care about their fellow man and sacrifice their time,money, and even their health to do this work.
Yes they are conflicted, and often depressed about not measuring up to the standards set by the GB. They are forced to accomplish their personal ministry under non-Christ like conditions but never the less for good or bad they feel like a part of a great campaign that consist of 8 million other humans who no matter what we feel about the method or the message is in fact a major undeniable accomplishment of this organization.
Those of us who have been set free mentally from the cell but are still in the prison can be an example to our brothers by engaging in the "real" preaching and teaching work by following Jesus example, using only God's word, focusing on the good news of the Christ and his Kingdom, and of course never talk about time keeping or literature placements etc. They can see you have found the real joy in the ministry as we remember that all true Christians are commanded to do this work and wether you perform that work under this misguided organization or another we should all perform it with joy and a sense of accomplishment.
PS
Most of have focused our comments on this article with the reporting of time, so obviously a "hot" button for us. I am looking forward to Meleti writing on the blood issue in his future articles as I am in the medical field and this is of great concern to me.

• Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-11-06 10:43:51

  Gogetter, you are quite right about this. I have to say that when I was in, I sincerely believed I was doing the right thing. I had nothing but contempt for "apostates", and did several TMS talks about apostates. I even had a saying: "When Armageddon comes, God should throw His lightning bolts at the apostates first."
  How time has changed my perspective! I now see that the constant labeling of people as "apostates" is a name-calling smear tactic, used primarily to isolate the R+F JW from the truth about their faith. What I find notable in all the WT rhetoric about "apostates", they never cite any actual quotations from "apostate" literature or web sites, while their opponents cite WT publications all the time.
  As I view things today, I am not an "apostate" - they are. If I had to give myself a label, it would be "dissenter", not "apostate", because I simply dissent or disagree with what WT is doing. "Apostate", in the WT sense of "standing aside or away from the truth", is a theological concept, implying a standard of right and wrong. Whether any group or individual is, or is not, in harmony with Bible truth may be a matter of debate, but whether we agree or disagree is easier to determine. "Dissenter" does not carry any emotionally charged stigma, like "apostate" does. It is better to avoid such terms, so that we can calmly go about discussing these matters in a rational and unemotional way.
  Of course we are all sinners, so rather than saying "hate the sin but not the sinner", I would say, "hate the victimizer, not the victim". I don't hate the R+F JWs I have known. I feel sorry for them.

• Reply by Father jack on 2015-11-06 12:58:11

  I remember a few years ago all that me and my son would speak of while out on the ministry was jesus christ and when asked who we were we replied christians . There were those in the congregation that did not seem to like that at all . I had a brother correct me in front of the householder when i said i was a christian he said actually we are jehovahs witnesses. As for preaching the christ they didnt like that either because we were ignoring the kingdom ministry suggestions designed to place books and magazines with people . I was personally counselled by another elder because i wasnt placing magazines . But using my bible instead . As for my son he was reprimanded by one brother in no uncertain terms because he was speaking of christ instead of placing campaign leaflets . The bottom line is that if we preach the christ and use the bible most of the time ee are igoring the direction of the GB as found in the kingdom ministry . In some brothers eyes that means that we ar a dissenter and an independent thinker . I hope you have a better experience gogetter

Comment by Sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-06 16:55:20

Something I wanted to add, imagine if elders were told they could count their time while doing shepherding calls? Just an educated guess..... but I'll bet there'd be a lot more shepherding calls going on. Some years ago, the CO was visiting our congregation and it was Saturday morning. During the meeting for service, he picks the brothers to work with him, in this case there were six of us. I had the van, so all squeezed in and away we went. When arriving in the territory he said "who needs a shepherding call that lives nearby?" There happened to be an elderly sister who lived a block away, so he said "let's go visit her." I knock on her door, and she's answers in her pajamas. I told her the CO was with us and wanted to visit her. She was flattered and said of course, so I motioned to all to come on in. Mind you there were six of us. We get inside and settled, and the CO asks if she has coffee? Two hours passed...... yes two hours, most of the visit spent joking and her telling stories about her younger years, while the CO was busy perusing the various translations of the Bible she had on her bookshelf, looking up controversial texts to see how they read. Every now and then he'd add a smile or word or two to the conversation.
So there we were, 6 elders, 12 combined hours in the ministry. I thought to myself..... if the friends only knew. That morning changed my view of time counting forever. If the CO is okay with six elders enjoying coffee and cookies for two hours having a jolly old time...... Jehovah must be too.
Sopater

• Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-06 23:22:57

  We have been hoping that the org will allow the counting of time, not only on shepherding visits (because then they will get done and the elders will do what they should be doing, i.e. shepherding) but also to allow it for the visiting of the elderly. It is really sad to see how the elderly are neglected by most in the congregation but that won't happen anymore if the pubs can count the hours spent visiting and helping them.
  All the comments on the way field service is being done around the world and the lack of care in general for the elderly and needy confirms the fact that love is sorely missing, love of God and love of neighbour. The identifying mark is not there - John 13:34,35.

  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2015-11-07 08:25:47

    Perhaps if the hours start to decline, they'll make that change. They love their statistics and depend on them as a means to verify God's blessing. They've made changes over the past 15 years to shore up the numbers, so if the field activity starts to decline, they very well might allow shepherding and even visits to the elderly to get the numbers back up.
    A decline in our field service, bible studies, and worst of all, our publisher numbers would be viewed as a disaster since there is no other basis for the claim that Jehovah is blessing the organization while all of Christendom is in decline. (It's not all in decline, but because the publishers are discouraged from getting their information from outside sources, they don't know that.)

    • Reply by sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-07 09:34:16

      OOA & Meleti,
      Don't you feel that If they allowed time to be counted in shepherding and calling on the elderly (which I agree is very important and is seriously lacking), where would they draw the line? What about upkeep around the KH? Creating schedules, attending elder meetings that can last for hours upon hours caring for the flock? What about judicial matters, and elder schools lasting an entire week? Are not all these areas sacred service where the elder is sacrificing his personal life (and family), to give to Jehovah?
      If counting shepherding time was allowed, I think this would skew the all important number on the publisher card. Elders could easily clock 20 hours per month. And not 1 of those hours spent engaging in the door to door.
      Leadership is aware that sharing in the door to door becomes an issue for someone who is awakening, and they are most concerned about an elder. To maintain control and conformity, it is crucial that an elder follows protocol.
      Limiting the counting to "service" time exclusively, the elder must report 10 hours or more. In that he can't count family worship (unless he has kids and that's an hour per week), to achieve 10 hours puts the brother out in service about every Saturday.
      The organizational (GB) judgment of the Christian's spirituality is reduced to a number penciled on a paper card. Should a problem be developing, declining numbers is an early red flag. If the brother is an awakening elder, it is crucial that he be stripped of the respect of the congregation and be marginalized. He must not be allowed to not follow protocol, yet remain respected. When deleted, he poses no threat to the authority of the GB.
      In the case of elders, the penciled number could be equated to growing a beard. It's a visible sign when a brother grows a beard he's got issues, right? If an elder doesn't report 10 hours, and there's not a darn good reason why, and the next month he reports 8 hours, and so forth, he's got issues and needs to be taken out.
      Sopater

      • Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-08 10:38:53

        Hi Sopater
        You are right about the organisation never changing the way they report FS, but to my mind for a totally different reason.
        I was reading this post today http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jayanti-tamm/the-c-word_2_b_848340.html on what is a cult. It says that "Recruitment is purposefully subtle; the pull is gentle, gradual. Events are welcoming; attention is lavished on the visitor with the intention to create an environment that feels inclusive, nonthreatening, and safe. The visitor is warmly encouraged to return, to step in closer. It is not until later, often much later, that one may look around and, with great surprise, discover the strange terrain upon which one now stands."
        When I studied the bible, everyone was just so nice. The sisters would pop in to visit, people would write me very scriptural letters etc. I was so impressed about how loving everyone was. As soon as I got baptised it all stopped. Then I realised that the friends were only using me to get field service hours. My husband had a very similar experience.

        • Reply by sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-08 14:12:35

          Very good point OOA.
          Sadly, you are absolutely correct that attention from pioneers and others all but dries up after their student becomes baptized. At this point, its move on the next student where time can be counted. This is an unfortunate by product of the time counting scheme. Again, the prime purpose in requiring time is that it provides a basis to remove a potential dissenter from a position of respect.
          If not for claiming the brother is disqualified because of low hours, it would be very difficult to disqualify him based upon the scriptures. Much more difficult. Then they'd have to debate the scriptures, and the congregation may still support him as a fine example in faith. They can't let it go there.
          Sopater

          • Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-08 23:04:42

            Sopater that is true. In our case my husband's hours were very high, and he was told by a brother that they can't find fault with him, so they proceeded to attack me as his wife and our 18 month old baby for viciously pushing a child in the kingdom hall. The fact that the baby wasn't ours but was a sad story of abuse and neglect until we took him in at 12 months of age didn't matter. And any 18 month old baby is uncoordinated, and we never found the victim.
            Nice people indeed!

            • Reply by sopaterofberoea on 2015-11-09 12:42:34

              OoA
              Your experience validates my point. His solid hours jammed the critical signal..... your husband was flying "under the radar". So in your husband's case, they had to find something else to disqualify him. It would have been much easier (and less difficult) had they simply deleted him due to his low hours.
              This demonstrates how important the number on the card is. But it can go both ways..... if the brother is active (i.e. finds creative ways to count his time) he can stay under the radar..... perhaps for years. I'm living proof.
              What happened to you sounds very unloving...... But they may sense you are developing an attitude (awakening) so prepare for the attacks to become more unloving and personal. The objective will be to make you feel judged by Jehovah. You won't be moved to comment, you'll find reasons to miss meetings. The congregation will marginalize you and judge you, and finally..... you'll stop attending.
              The unfortunate ones are unable to remain undercover and are then forced to either DA, or be DF'd. It seems we are useful to the GB so long as we follow protocol, and question nothing. If we begin to question, we have lost our usefulness and become expendable.
              Sopater

              • Reply by Out of Africa on 2015-11-09 13:24:05

                :-)
                Unfortunately it is too late for all of your very good advice, Sopater. My husband has already stopped attending and I'm about to stop giving in a Field Service report. And I very wickedly did not go to the meeting last Sunday as I am tired of being completely ignored by all the loving brothers and sisters in our new cong (we had to change congs twice already and our boy is now 7!), Oh, and I have stopped commenting as well. So we are no longer under the radar, but I hope we can fall off it entirely.
                And we are way too tactless and outspoken to follow protocol, that is why we got into trouble in the first place. It is only recently that we started to realize exactly what congregation politics are...

    • Reply by Gogetter on 2015-11-07 10:30:58

      Remember the FS numbers are really not a true report on actual hours spent preaching and teaching. When I was a pioneer we could count up to 40 hrs. Working on Kingdom Hall construction projects....because it is considered part of the theocratic ministry. Plus all the wasted time that has been pointed out here.
      I had a discussion once with a CO about "time" counting and of course he pointed to the record in the Bible of counting those who received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost , how many Jesus feed etc. to justify counting and reporting time.
      I pointed out all the discripencies and wasted time that is reported (he didn't care to much for my comments asking how long I had been an elder/pioneer?)
      He then said "well how would you feel if the GB required us to report the actual time spent talking to person, it would be real tough to make your time ...wouldn't it? I responded that maybe if we removed the time requirements then that would be much more accurate if we really wanted to know the "time" spent preaching. Needless to say that ended the conversation.
      Actually that is exactly the way I have reported my time for the last 4 years
      And yes my hours are extremely low although I'm out regularly and as of today not one elder has questioned me about it. I know it's a compromise on my part, but at least my conscious is at peace,and removing that burden from myself has helped me to rise above it all and enjoy the ministry.
      Add to that it not offering any literature except maybe a Kingdom brochure and only using my Bible has helped me to keep my sanity.

      • Reply by Andres on 2017-06-10 06:25:12

        Que hermoso hermano!

Comment by Vassy on 2015-12-09 06:41:52

I would like to share with you an interesting and tragic story related to conscience and blood transfusions. As recently as November 2015, Georgiana, a JW woman aged 20, was involved in a train accident. She was a beginner driver and, when wishing to cross the railroad, her engine stopped and the car remained still on the rail. Her father got off the car and started to push the car. Within seconds, the trained appeared out of nowhere and hit the car (the woman was in the car). The collision was disastrous, leaving the girl with multiple and severe spinal, thoracic and head injuries.
After her having being carried to the hospital, the family was told the girl needed a blood transfusion (the girl was unconscious, she could not decide for herself and no medical directive was found with her). The doctors were astonished to hear that the girl’s parents (being JWs as well) were not willing to save the girl’s life and, instead, forbade the administration of blood to their daughter. The medical team insisted a transfusion was needed but to no avail: the parents refused the transfusion. As the situation grew worse and worse for the girl, it was decided that the girl be transferred to a university clinic in the nearest big city (Iassy). Unfortunately, the girl died during the transferal after 7 days of hospitalization. The authorities filed lawsuit against the parents over the charge of murder.
On the day of the funeral, at least two Romanian Bethelites came to deliver the funeral talk. What is interesting is how they tried to excuse the organization from having anything to do with the girl’s decision. I must mention that the people in the village where the girl lived were highly inflamed against the JWs and wanted to oust them out of the village. So the purpose of the talk was primarily to appease the public. It appealed to a lot of sentiments. However, the following excerpt demonstrates how the organization tries to exonerate itself from any bad consequences resulted from their blood policy. In other words, “we urge you not to take any blood, but if you die, it’s not our fault after all, it’s your own decision”. This was essentially the position adopted by the Romanian JW Bethel when contacted by the media.
“Therefore, the following question is raised: how do Jehovah’s Witnesses deal with this issue [that is, the blood prohibition]? Do Jehovah’s Witnesses require or compel someone not to accept a specific medical treatment or a blood transfusion? The categorical, clear and straight answer to this issue is NO! Jehovah’s Witnesses do not oblige, require or demand on behalf of anyone to accept or not to accept a particular medical treatment. Each Jehovah’s Witness decides for himself/herself, based on his/her conscience and the Bible, regardless of which Bible is quoted from, because all Bibles are the same/say the same thing—for example, I have with me the Cornilescu Bible translation published by an orthodox priest, my quote was from another orthodox Bible published by Romanian Patriarchate, the quotes of the previous speakers were from another Bible—all Bibles are absolutely the same. Therefore, each Witness—this is what the community should remember—decides for himself/herself, based on his/her conscience and the Bible, whether to receive or not a medical treatment. Accepting or refusing a blood transfusion is a strictly personal decision having no connection whatsoever with religion or anything else from the community in which someone lives. In other words, not even the family, nobody, not even the family has the ethical, legal or religious right to enjoin a person to accept or decline a blood transfusion. And I want to emphasize this aspect, therefore I repeat: the decision to accept or refuse a medical treatment is not regulated by Jehovah’s Witnesses. No religion has the right to enforce a particular course of action in this regard upon its practitioners as this would infringe each individual’s right to choose. In our case, Georgiana chose by herself and for herself the best medical treatment [I wonder what that treatment was since she DIED after 7 days in the hospital] so that her conscience may not be troubled, and her parents chose to support her decision out of respect for their daughter’s choice.”
What strikes me as hypocritical is their shamelessness in stating that refusing a blood transfusion has nothing to do with religion!!! And if someone is really free to decide for himself/herself in this issue, then why does the Feed the Flock manual stipulates that anyone who willingly and unrepentantly takes blood is subject to disassociation (an equivalent for disfellowshiping)? This is outrageous and no sane person could cope with such double standards!