[From ws15/09 for Nov 9-15]
“Stand Firm in the faith,…grow mighty.” – 1Co 16:13
For a change of pace, I thought it might be fun and educational to treat this WT review like a Watchtower study.
Feel free to use the comment section to answer the questions. Additionally, unlike the standard Watchtower study, all are encouraged to add their own thoughts.
(We can be honest and truthful while still respecting the decorum of the site
and the sensibilities of new ones chancing upon this review.)
Par. 3 (excerpt): “Similarly, when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah and got baptized, we did so because of our faith. Jesus called us to be his followers, to walk in his footsteps.”
Q. 3: Is there any scriptural basis for the premise that we have dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as part of the baptismal process?
Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, we became his friends, something we could never have done in our own power.”
Q. 4: What, if any, is the Scriptural basis for believing that faith moves us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah with a view to becoming his friends?
Par. 5 (excerpt): “More than that, because of our faith, we will receive a gift no human could ever obtain by his own efforts—everlasting life.—John 3:16”
Q. 5: What type of everlasting life is John 3:16 referring to? Is there any scriptural basis for applying this to the type of everlasting life the article is referring to?
Par. 6 – “The wind and waves surrounding Peter as he walked on the water might be compared to the trials and temptations we face in our life of dedication to God.”
Q. 6: Since the Bible does not refer to “Christian dedication to God”, why do you think this phrase is used so often in the publications?
Par. 11 – “Do I chafe at Scriptural counsel? Instead of looking for a way to benefit from the counsel, we might be focusing on some defect in the counsel or in the counselor. (Prov. 19:20) We might thus miss an opportunity to bring our thinking into line with God’s.”
Q. 11: While the idea of humbly accepting Scriptural counsel is sound, what is really implied by this statement in your experience?
Par. 12 – “Likewise, if we constantly grumble about those whom God is using to lead his people, is this not an indication that our faith in God has weakened?”
Q. 12: As it applies to the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, is there a flaw in this reasoning? What would be the Scriptural course of action when we feel that there is cause for complaint against those taking the lead in the Organization?
Par. 15 – ”Just as Peter refocused on Jesus, we too must “look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus.” (Read Hebrews 12:2, 3) Of course, we cannot literally see Jesus as Peter did. Instead, we “look intently” at Jesus by examining his teachings and actions and then following these closely. Consider some steps we can take based on the model Jesus set. If we put these into practice, we will receive the help we need to make our faith firm.”
Q. 15: Examining the context of this Scripture (Read Hebrews 12:1-8), who is the writer referring to? Could “Jehovah’s friends”—but not his sons—be included in its application? If we are to ‘follow closely’ the footsteps of Jesus who despised shame for the joy set before him, what joy does the Watchtower set before us to give us cause to endure our torture stake?
Par. 16 – “To illustrate, you might increase your conviction that the end of this system of things really is near by studying in detail the Scriptural proof that we live in the last days.”
Q. 16: What Scriptural proof is there that we live in the last days? Does this proof coincide with what the Organization is teaching about the last days?
Par. 19 – “So when choosing your friends, look for people who show their faith by their obedience to Jesus. And remember that one sign of a good friendship is open communication, even when this calls for giving or accepting counsel.”
Q. 19: Based on this counsel, are all Jehovah’s Witnesses showing their faith? On what basis can we find good friendship among Jehovah’s Witnesses and which ones should we be cautious with?
Just a quick note that the following comment was made on paragraph 20 of how “By both word and deed, Jesus built up the faith of his disciples” and that if we make friends as Jesus did, we would not shun anyone because Jesus never shunned anyone, and neither would we “grumble against appointed brothers” or “quickly shun them.” Instead we might “tactfully come to their aid, helping them take steps to restore their faith” as related by Jude 22, 23: “Also, continue showing mercy to some who have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire,” fire being a… Read more »
Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, we became his friends, something we could never have done in our own power.” Q. 4: What, if any, is the Scriptural basis for believing that faith moves us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah with a view to becoming his friends? My humble opinion: A: Point 1: Adam was created by Jesus, along side his father, Jehovah (John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence). ( Prov 8:30 I was beside him as a master… Read more »
As a followup, I have altered the Lord’s prayer to be more ‘appropriate’ as one of the great crowd, with an earthly hope. Here it goes: When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. 8 So do not be like them, for your ‘Friend’ knows what you need+ even before you ask him. 9 “You must pray, then, this way:+ “‘Our ‘Friend’ in the heavens, let your name+ be sanctified.*+ 10 Let your Kingdom+ come.… Read more »
In fairness, I felt I needed to state that last weeks WT study treated the subject of Jehovah being our ‘heavenly Father’ (as opposed to not just our ‘Friend’, for those of us identified as ‘great crowd members’) with much better accuracy and respect. I actually enjoyed the talk (which didn’t harp on, or put so much emphasis on the Faithful Slave), but kept things focused on Jesus/Jehovah. I also enjoyed the two songs that we sang, along with that article. The brother who gave the talk, was from an African country that has been torn apart by years of… Read more »
Par 4 has: Faith motivated us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah, and we became his friends, something we could never have done without his help.—Ephesians 2:8. So, does this mean that being a FRIEND of Jehovah is the key to being SAVED as Eph. 2:8 talks about…….new light. Par 5 has: Also, because we trust in Jehovah, we do not need to worry as much when we have problems. Jehovah has promised that he will give us what we need if we have faith in him and put his Kingdom first. That is the out of jail card…it means that… Read more »
Just read the article theres some class statements here . Para 10 when others hurt or offend us we might be tempted to cut them off by not speaking to them on the other hand if we forgive we show our faith in jehovah !!!!!!!!!! Para 19 . And remember the sign of a good friendship is open communication even when this calls for giving and accepting counsel . ? Blah blah blah .
Para 12 as well its shocking because what is assumed is that god is using the govening body of JWs t lead his people . Lets get this straight the one and only leader of christianty is jesus christ himself the rest of us are all brothers . If there is a cause for complaint the scriptural action is found at matthew 18 to speak to them about it in private difficult when we dont know them . So i took it to the next best thing a private discussion with those upholdind these rules the elders . Those ones… Read more »
Question 11 about chafing at scriptural counsel . I never had a problem with scriptural counsel , but it has to be just that scriptural . Some of the counsel we had over the years was just plain unscriptural , we always asked what scripture was it based on we either got no answer at all or got a scripture that had been missaplied . For example the grief i had about my sons beard . ( not a bible teaching ) they shouldnt be atteding university ( not a bible teaching ) based on a missaplication of phillipians 3… Read more »
The Society likes rules- the easy road to nowhere. It’s a common fault among the religious. They are like children gathering in a field to play marching band with whatever improvised instruments they can find. Good fun but certainly not Handel’s Messiah. To play Handel’s Messiah professional musicians and vocalists know their parts even with eyes closed but they also know that the only way to make beautiful music TOGETHER is to watch and follow their Conductor. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a children’s marching band which, especially since the time of Rutherford, has been playing discordant cacophonous… Read more »
Thanks deb your dead right of course . The way they twisted phillipians 3 got me insinuating that higher education was a lot of refuse . Both of my sons went to uni we live close to one . Both have now the skills and ability to make a success of thier relationship . Family life . Ect . It was a discrace that counsel because it has deprived some very clever kids of thier chance to develop into mature adults with the ability to provide for a wife children husband . Comfortably . I know some who feel resentful… Read more »
It also encouraged many young men to immerse themselves in video gaming and basically, becoming ‘sloth-like’. I lived it, and now most of my kids constituents continue to be ‘sloth-like’ because they didn’t have any guidance on obtaining the training necessary to grow up, have a family and support a pioneer, or pioneers. It chaffed me to no end to hear/endure the lessons that equated education with serious sin. Really? Education = sinning? I can’t remember the WT article, but I remember that the paragraph contained ‘pursuing higher education’, ‘fornication’, etc. and equated these things as having equal weight! Arghh!!… Read more »
One thing i did not appeciate meg was a talk at a convention once . Which said you young people if your parents or well meaning relatives tell you you need higher education dont listen to them . Listen to us we know best . It annoyed me that one what a cheek .
(Correcting format.) Par. 3 (excerpt): “Similarly, when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah and got baptized, we did so because of our faith. Jesus called us to be his followers, to walk in his footsteps.” Q. 3: Is there any scriptural basis for the premise that we have dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as part of the baptismal process? A. No. Though the Jews as a nation were God’s dedicated and chosen people, meaning that Christ’s early disciples were already dedicated to Jehovah, there is no record of gentile believers becoming dedicated to Jehovah before baptism. _________________ Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our… Read more »
Par. 3 (excerpt): “Similarly, when we dedicated ourselves to Jehovah and got baptized, we did so because of our faith. Jesus called us to be his followers, to walk in his footsteps.” Q. 3: Is there any scriptural basis for the premise that we have dedicated ourselves to Jehovah as part of the baptismal process? ________________________ No. Though the Jews as a nation were God’s dedicated and chosen people, meaning that Christ’s early disciples were already dedicated to Jehovah, there is no record of gentile believers becoming dedicated to Jehovah before baptism. Par. 4 (excerpt): “Once our faith moved us… Read more »
My 38 building as a Jehovahs Witness has blown apart, but my foundation Jehovah and his son Jesus is unshaken. I love them that’s is what I know. I am reading a lot, crying a lot praying a lot, what to do. To partake or not? I feel I should because of Matthew 28:20, Jesus told them to learn new disciples to do ALL he commended them to do. This verse comes to me when I think of to partake, for the first time in 38 Years. I am awakening, but it’s a painful process and I pray for all… Read more »
Willy, Pray for Jehovah’s help to know and understand what is best for you at this time. If your heart is not leading you to partake then rely on Jehovah. One of the blessings of being in the Organization in the 1950’s and 60’s is that there were still a number of publishers from Russell’s day attending meeting and gatherings. At one such gathering an “anointed” partaker from Russell’s and Rutherford’s day gave this very instructive and revealing testimony (a Bible student term): When the door to the Great Crowd teaching was opened in 1935 a surprising thing happened, there… Read more »
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I feel we all 8 million JW should partake due to Matthew 28:19-20. As we looked in the studybible of JW Matthew 28:20 refers to 1 Cor. 11:23-26. Are these verses not prove that we all should? My husband and I always looked forward to Paradise on Earth, where Christ Kingdom will rule and Everyone would live to glorify God.
Love to you all
Hi willy you may find the information found at perimeno website enlighting regarding the meaning of the emblems and who should partake.
Mister Grey, thank you, I Will study the information you kindly profided me 🙂
Kind regards Willy
Q.3: No, there is no scriptural basis for dedication as part of baptism. Consider this excerpt from Perimeno’s web site: http://perimeno.ca/Dedication.htm I invite you to follow the link and read the complete article. ” 1. The nation of Israel was not dedicated to God, but rather was in a covenant with him. Those two are not the same; the terms are not interchangeable. 2. Dedication has nothing to do with having one’s prayers heard by God. Did Cornelius dedicate himself to God in order for his prayers to be heard? 3. It is not due to any “dedication” to God… Read more »
” 1. The nation of Israel was not dedicated to God, but rather was in a covenant with him. Those two are not the same; the terms are not interchangeable. nâzar (H5144) BDB Definition: 1) to dedicate, consecrate, separate 1a) (Niphal) to dedicate oneself, devote oneself 1b) (Hiphil) to keep sacredly separate 2) (Hiphil) to be a Nazarite, live as a Nazarite (Brenton) Ezekiel 14:7, For any man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, who shall separate (H5144) himself from me, and conceive his imaginations in his heart, and set before his face… Read more »
I raise my hand. My answer Obey whatever the Organization says , also listen to the Guardians of Doctrines aka Governing Body . That is my answer for the whole article,. Do I get a Gold Star?? Awesome
Oh yeah that is what The Organization wants to hear !!
Actually, according to Stephen Lett you get the gold star if you know that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. Anyone seen the spoof picture of David Splanes chart with Jesus pointing to it and his disciples looking on in bewilderment. Now thats worth a gold star!
Well said my friend, well said, Gold stars for all. We all know 587…. I mean 607 is correct….. 🙂
Oh I would so love to see that. Any chance you could post a link?
1984 my friend I believe Mr.Lett says that on the Third video at the Annuel Meeting this year, when he starts to talk about the Antitype of Babylon and us today. It is the beginning of his part.
If you put into Google the following
Even the Apostles didn’t understand Splane’s explanation of “This Generation”
And click the Reddit link that should come top of the results, then click the topic title, it will take you to the picture.
I’m not posting the link because I think it’s not allowed; also I’m not a fan of the Reddit site that has the discussion, but I do think the picture is hilarious, especially the eloquent body language of the apostle Peter.
Thank you for not posting the link, Martha. I agree with you that the image has relevance however. Would Jesus need a chart to explain his reference to “this generation”? How silly we have become.
I wondered if Jesus mentioned Exodus 1:6 , cause we all know that is the Scripture that Answers what a Generation means…me think Not
Thanks Meleti, MarthaMartha, Buster and anonymous. That’s made my day! It really puts things into perspective. I have said to my wife many times that Jesus knew exactly what he was talking about when he uttered those words at Matt 24:34. If he was really running the show the Watchtower wouldn’t have made such a pigs breakfast of those simple words for the last 100+ years! I think this picture sums that up nicely. Thanks again!
A pig’s breakfast. 🙂 Very apt! I occasionally imagine the GB meetings over the decades as they realised the last attempt wasn’t working out, and the desperate thought processes they must go through to find another explanation that will fill their criteria, ie; keep the masses in a state of high expectation, keep them dependent on the organisation, keep the unassailable golden calf of 1914 intact…… I have a chuckle at the thought…… But then when I remember the extent of the damage they have done over the decades by ignoring Jesus’ words ” it does not belong to you”,… Read more »
Yes, I agree. I think the Generation teaching is definitive proof that these men are truly delusional. rather than accept that they got it wrong, and all the implications of that (like 1914 is wrong also, and they are not who they think they are – the FDS) they just keep finding new ways to flog a dead horse and bolster their authority and control. It’s very sad, and has severely impacted many lives to their detriment.
They should at least get an A+ for effort on the generation teaching. Could you have come up with it? Would you have even bothered to try and defend it? Round of applause I say, for sticking to their guns. It’s just ridiculous though.
This image is in bad taste. Even disrespectful.
Disrespectful to Christ.
Either this is what Jesus meant about this generation or it wasn’t. If it is what he meant, as the GB say, then the picture is true and accurate. If it is not what Jesus meant, then any disrespect to him would come from the teaching itself and it’s constant need for revision.
Exactly, and that was the point: To show how this abomination of a teaching brings reproach on the pure teaching of the Lord. It shows pictographically what the Governing Body is expressing through their teaching.
Here is the thing…Peter would not have drawn a caricature of his Lord supporting a false teaching promoted by the Pharisees in order to make a point.
Peter was too close to his Lord, he loved him too much, he felt his Lord’s sacrifice too much to USE his Lord in such a way.
All the anointed feel this way.
Do you believe this is what Jesus meant?
Or is this just using Christ to mock the GB?
If a LINK to an exjw site is objectionable how is it their FODDER is not?
“Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement.” This picture is pure satire. There is no disrespect meant to our Lord Jesus. Jesus Christ himself used visually humorous images to make a point. ( camels trotting through a needle’s eye) It is unthinkable that Jesus would teach this. It’s merely using humour and photoshop trickery to express the ridiculous idea that making charts gives any credulity to a preposterous stretch… Read more »
And thank you MarthaMartha for your support, and for this eloquent defense. I might add that when Jesus told his disciples not to through pearls before swine, he wasn’t being insulting, but accurately depicting the reality of the situation they were going to face with the Jewish Leaders.
A picture really does speak a thousand words sometimes. One can listen to a half hour of pure spin on the generation teaching and maybe start to believe it. A quick look at this picture makes the truth of it all really apparent, to even the most unlearned person. Nice comment MarthaMartha
MarthaMartha, just as I would object to someone drawing a pic of my fleshly father holding a placard saying something HE disagreed with, so too I object doing the same to the Son of God.
Which comes first, the fight with Watchtower, or our love of Christ? If exjw anti-Watchtower humor is using Christ, Christ and our love for him must come first.
He must come first even in the little things.
Are you still an active JW, or an ex JW? Just curious
I am neither.
I am a disciple of Jesus Christ who believes the Watchtower is following in the footsteps of first century Jewish leaders who, while claiming to worship God, were actually putting themselves in His place.
Ok, so you’ve never been a baptised JW. Thanks for your honesty
I did not say I was never a baptized JW. I said, I am neither JW nor exJW meaning I do not self-identify with either identification. Those terms are pejorative and define divisions among brothers; as shia and sunni are divisions among Muslims. We are all brothers no matter the “camp” we may reside in. ExJW and JW are brothers estranged by pharisaical leaders who did not (and still do not) do as they taught, hypocrites. The hearts and minds of many in the Organization are being ruined. Ruined by the continuous saturation of material intellectually watered down and made… Read more »