This week in the Service Meeting (I can still call it that, at least for the next couple of weeks.) we are being asked to comment on the hour-long video Walking by Faith, Not by Sight. The production values are quite respectable and the acting is not bad either. It depicts an event in graphic detail that we are being told will apply to all Jehovah’s Witnesses.
It is true that we will all have to face serious tests of faith. Jesus told us that unless we are willing to abandon all things for his name, we cannot be worthy of him. That was the meaning behind his words regarding the need for Christians to take up their torture stake (or cross). (Mt 10:37-38) Those who were hung on a stake were stripped of all things including their outer garments. They had to be willing to give up the love of family and friends, their position and status in the community, their good name (not as God viewed it but as the community did) and to be held by others as beneath contempt. All that and their life too. (De 21:22-23)
How each of us will be tested individually is not something we can predict with any accuracy. Indeed, if we attempt to do so, we can get into trouble and this is where this week’s review of the video is likely to lead.
The organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses would have us believe that a similar event will occur in our day. They’re looking for an anti-typical fulfillment in which the nations will surround Jehovah’s Witnesses in an all-out attack. Our teaching is that after all other religions are destroyed, we will be – organizationally speaking – “the last man standing.” Then the nations will notice us and turn on us.
This is based on their particular application of the 38th and 39th chapters of Ezekiel concerning the attack of Gog of Magog. Of course, this application could well be to another time. The only parallel account is found at Revelation 20:8-10 and that is clearly speaking of a time after the 1,000 year reign of Christ has ended. Whatever the case, it is not analogous to the siege of Jerusalem in 66 C.E., because in both Ezekiel and Revelation God’s people do not have to do anything to be saved. This was not the case in the first century. Jesus gave his disciples very clear and precise instructions on what to do. He did not leave them in doubt or guessing.
What about us as Christians? Has Jesus told us what to do prior to Armageddon to be saved? The only thing he tells us to do is to endure. (Mt 24:13) He does say not to be misled by false prophets and false Christs (anointed ones). He also says that the angels will gather his chosen ones, giving the distinct impression that our salvation is not in our hands. (Mt 24:23-28, 31)
However, faithful reliance on Christ and endurance is not good enough for many. We cannot fully trust in our Lord to handle matters. We feel we have to do something ourselves as well. We need some specific instruction, a plan of action.
Enter the Governing Body. Though there is nothing in the Bible telling us to be on the watch for specific instructions for our salvation coming from a group of men, this is what we have come to believe.
It is true that the Bible says: “For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7) However, the foremost prophet, Jesus Christ, has foretold what will happen. We have no need of more instruction. So why should we think that there is something more not stated in Scripture? Who is telling us that what the Scriptures say is not enough? Who is making an antitypical application…again? Who would have us believe that more scrolls are to be opened before Armageddon?
(w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today)
“At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.”
This revelation is coming from the same Organization that thought Armageddon was coming in 1914, then again in 1925 and then again in 1975. The same Organization that has reinterpreted Matthew 24:34 more times then there are fingers on both your hands, and has now given us the remarkable “overlapping generations doctrine”. We are now expected to believe that our loving Father would choose such a discredited source as the sole means by which we can be saved?
Would that not be contradicting his own warning to us not to “put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs”? (Ps 146:3)
The Governing Body would have us believe that specific instructions will be forthcoming from Jehovah God, and they will be acting as his spokesman – despite Geoffrey Jackson’s sworn testimony to the contrary – directing us to salvation. Our very survival will depend on our unquestioning obedience to their directives.
“Let the reader use discernment.” (Mark 13:14)
If you go to the meeting this week please share with us the comments you hear from the audience to help us understand how the brotherhood is thinking and how widespread the problem really is.
I fear that the Governing Body is setting the flock up for a colossal disappointment, and possibly much more, possibly a great tragedy.
Jesus told his disciples before he left ” I did not hold back from telling you anything”. True, Holy Spirit would arrive to teach them. However this would not be “new things”. Instead, Holy Spirit would ” bring back to mind” the things that Jesus had already told them.
Meleti, I would very much will like to dialogue further on these points you mention, you can reach me at the links/email address i provided in my comments earlier. Not to debate but for the purpose of reaching agreement concerning the truth of the matter under dispute. Some comments are in order for each of your selected texts: I wonder if your conflating the inspiration of the letters of the new testament with the authoritative judgements of the first century church .Inspiration is a technical term that refers to the inspiration of scripture and that term is used in 2… Read more »
We agree what 1 Th 5:21 says but the Bible also teaches, as DOCTRINE that we are to submit the the Congregation.(Hebrews 13:27, Acts 1,5 & 15) That is a teaching of the Bible, Meleti, just as much as the ones that tell us to make sure of all things. It appears you mistyped the reference to Hebrews, so I was not able to confirm your point from Scripture. Also, the reference to Acts is confusing. Are you referring to the entire chapters 1, 5 and 15, or is this also mistyped. I think you’ll agree that the commenting feature… Read more »
Father Jack, Thats why I encourage everyone to do a careful study of history, scripture, the marks of the congregation and the great apostasy. Starting with the Christian congregation in the first century at the time of the Apostles, and then tracing the congregation forward, decade by decade, to the present day. As you trace the congregation forward through the centuries, you will encounter a myriad of sects all claiming to be the christian congregation. In each case you will note whether they fit the criteria(“fundamental teachings”) laid out by Jesus in Hebrews 6:1,2 that the church will be teaching.… Read more »
You neglected to post the link where we can find this proof.
Anonymous, to trace the origins of the Jehovah’s Witness religion you need to start with William Miller, Nelson Barbour (former Millerite), and Charles Taze Russell. Start by reading The Three Worlds by Barbour. Have fun. The truth is out there
Anonymous,
We got to have a common starting point that doesn’t beg the question. Having a shared common ground will help us mutually evaluate the events in the 19th century and sort them without assuming at the outset which position is correct. I submit to you that shared starting point should be that of the early congregation. Any other way your assuming a priori and beggin the question.
Regards,
Sorry, 1st Century Governing Body?*** & WT interpretation of faithful slave: http://www.truetheology.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=40&sid=6d55ee58da9b02e98f635d0dd42d01f4 Examining the JW teaching of the Faithful and Discreet Slave: http://www.truetheology.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=829 Membership to the Truetheology website is only granted if one is interested in engaging in discussion or debate of one of the articles posted in the “ARTICLES FOR THE PROMOTION OF BIBLICAL TRUTH” section of the board or another pre-arranged topic. If you are interested in that, please send your request and/or challenge to challenges@truetheology.net Please specify which article you would like to discuss or debate or which topic you would like to engage, and you will… Read more »
Fair enough anonymous please send me the the evidence ,
(w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today)
“At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.”
This infamous quote my friends is going to be Used on the first week of 2016 weekday meeting, and it is one of the Answers for the new Christian life book, Nice.Spiritual Food indeed, Spiritual Food my Foot….:)
To everyone that knows me here I am making funof this quote and pointing out it’s wrong, but I wanted to let everyone know they use it, and they even want people to answer it with this quote, yup how that will be said
Let’s see, hmmm… They can’t even take care of a Bethell dishwasher, but they want JWs to place their own life and families in their hands? They cannot even take care OF THEIR OWN!!! That is THE RECIPE for: COLLASSAL [sic] TRAGEDY. It is what it is. All that remains is for the globalists to create the global context of Bethel’s own “self fulfilling prophecy”. And Bethel bumping heads with Caesar, as shown in that previous RC Response article on that subject, has actually set up part of this now all JW expected “attack”. Bethell is setting up their own… Read more »
This article in the k.m coincidentally mirrors todays & yesterdays daily text which taiks about the ffds & those who are taking the lead.
I do believe in coincidences, but only when they are few and far between. The number of times that the daily text supports Watchtower articles and the number of times both support changes made by the GB makes me think something else is at play.
I know look how many times they mentioned the Faithful slave and Matthew like over four times in this years daily text, don’t worry next year is Guardians of Doctrine, heck they have a Talk in the Assembly about that, Woops I think I went to far, No not far enough
Did any one hear about the 2 new memorial songs? They will be released and practiced in the new year…hmmmm.. Worship & praise the G.B. Now I’ve gone too far…lol
Thanks Meleti for sharing this insightful article. Lots to contemplate & think about. In your honest opinion, what do you think is at play with all the simultaneous changes and articles written by the W.T?
One thing that seems evident is that they have been planning and preparing for these changes for quite a while. In the mid 1990s it seemed we’d reached a turning point with the abandonment of Mt. 24:34 as a means to measure how close the end was. We could have abandoned our Adventist mentality then, and it was an excellent opportunity to acknowledge past errors, apologize, take our lumps, and reorganize by focusing on what really matters. This would have meant abandoning 1914, but I am sure that we would have supported the governing body if we saw real humility… Read more »
I agree that the GB is co-ordinating their changes with the publications. And it is misleading many into thinking that Jehovah is behind the changes.
For example, a sister I know well really believes Jehovah is behind the re-assigning of Bethelites and that He will take care of them because ‘look, even the daytext today says…., and last week’s WT said….’ It hasn’t occurred to her that all the different publications and meeting parts are made by the same people.
Hi Meleti, thanks for your review of this acct, and the other comments, Just feedback from the meeting.
Most of the bro’s and sister’s answered as per the question, however it was the study conducter who said , that ” no matter how foolish or ‘bizarre’ the instructions we recieve seem to be by those on the outside, we should trust the direction given ” or words to that effect.
Meleti,
Is it really the case that no one has come forward ? Only if we go back in history starting from the first century moving forward can we answer the question of who has the teaching authority to interpret scripture? What do say if we start the diaologue on this question:
Was there a governing body in the first century?
http://www.truetheology.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=621
Yes indeed it is. I’m speaking for this forum, of course. I have no idea if others have put forward a defense on other forums or in other arenas.
Apollos wrote an excellent analysis of the question of whether there was a first century governing body. (There wasn’t.) You can view it here.
However, if you want to open a dialogue on the topic, http://www.discussthetruth.com is the place to do that.
I personally feel that the scriptures do indicate that there was a group of men that did have the responsiblity to direct christianity in the first century . These men were the apostles and they did it under the direction of the spirit of christ . However i think it was a far different than the sort of domination practiced by the hierarchy of jehovahs witnesses today . This fact remains though that even if there was that sort of arrangement in the first century . How on earth does that prove that the governing body of jehovahs witnesses are… Read more »
Anonymous thanks . For the link . Its always good to hear different viewpoints on a particular subject . I try to be reasonable when i can . I was just thinking of comment about discerning who has the teaching authority to interpret scripture though . I think when we say such things for the most part we would have to be speaking of prophecy of scripture or at least the very difficult verses in NT . However i really do feel that for the most part when read in context the NT is actually not that difficult to understand… Read more »
Father Jack, I really hope you get to look in the articles in the links, this question merits more than a cursory look. I would think that regardless of what argument any organization, including the WT, would offer in establishing that God does not have a personal name, nothing could overturn the clear and concise statements that are found in the scriptures to the contrary. They truly stand as absolutes that any one with normal insight can see. Of course, this is merely an example for the sake of demonstrating a point, which is, that any teaching that stands against… Read more »
The problem with what you allege here, Anonymous, is that everything is predicated on the unproven assumption that the Governing Body is being used by Jehovah God as Paul was. Before we can accept this, we need proof. We know that Paul was approved because a) he performed miracles and b) nothing he wrote ever needed to be adjusted, refined, or changed. Neither element is found when we examine the Governing Body. So I ask you, why should we believe they represent the true congregation of God? We don’t want our readers to be taken in by spurious reasoning, but… Read more »
Meleti, How can one discern who is truly the body of Christ? How does one identify the body of Christ apart from the counterfeits? Simply put, we have to let the scriptures identify for us who it is that would be truly representing the body of Christ. But, how do we let the scriptures help us in that regard? As most any Bible student knows, there are teachings which are explicitly stated within the Bible where there is no ambiguity as to what is taught. For example: “There will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.” Acts 24:15… Read more »
Hi Anonymous, I would agree with your conclusion that one can use the unambiguous teachings found in scripture as a way to differentiate between true and false religion. Of course, this is not the sole criterion as shown by John 13:35 and John 7:15-20. In fact, I would suggest that the latter reference shows that simply looking at teachings is not the best method of distinguishing between worship that God approves and that which he condemns. The fact that the Devil can transform himself into an angel of light and his ministers can cloth themselves in a façade of justice… Read more »
Thanks for your comment and concern anonymous . Im just trying to be like a beroean who uses the scriptures to test the claims of others . Ill keep your viewpoint in mind. Christian love father jack .
Father Jack, I’m glad you asked that question,because if you get a chance to examine this passage about the Bereans who search the scriptures after Paul told them that Jesus was the Christ. Now this is highly misinterpreted by people who are trying to support biblicism because they think that because the Bereans are checking scripture they only believe scripture and that somehow Paul is beneath the scripture and the Bereans are using scripture over Paul and as the authority over Paul, but that is not the case at all, as a matter of fact what is occuring here as… Read more »
Yes thanks again anonymous and thanks for the interpretation of acts 17 ; 11 ps can you tell me what watchtower article that is based on i seemed to have missed that one sorry . FJ
Thanks for that article Meleti; it mirrored and expanded on my thoughts on this item. I haven’t had that meeting yet but expect much of what the others have experienced. One thing that has puzzled me about the application of the flight of the Christians in Jerusalem to the mountains in obedience to Jesus warning is…. The Christians affected by this prophecy and the action needed ONLY applied to those in Jerusalem. There were other Christians dotted all over the inhabited world by the time of Jerusalem’s destruction weren’t there? Those Christians in Ephesus, Rome, Corinth, etc… Would have no… Read more »
Hi MarthaMartha,
Your logic is spot on. They are taking a specific historical event (a type) and extracting from it (without Scriptural support, mind you) a future and great fulfillment (an antitype). Since the March 15 Watchtower’s Questions from Readers says that this is now wrong to do, the Governing Body is violating its own instructions.
Hello Meleti, We had two strong comments (coincidentally from two individuals who would really like to be appointed and noticed by the elders) repeating the line about ‘obey instructions from organization and the elders regardless how strange it may be’. One gets the feeling this is almost a mystical event we’re waiting for; it’s another aspect of the sacred secret akin to the mystery among the organization of how the GB gets its instructions from Jesus and how the anointed know they’re anointed. It feels like their reasoning detracts from Jesus’ instructions for us to ‘individually’ keep on the watch… Read more »
Apparently they’re required to tell us what to do because Jesus instructions at Mat 24:31 only apply to the anointed… Very insightful, CX516. It’s the old story that there can never be one lie. The first lie requires another and another, all to support the first. Soon the web of lies grows to the point that it can no longer be held together and strands begin to fray, until one day the whole structure falls. Since they started with the abominable lie that there is a secondary class of Christian denied adoption from God, they had to exclude such ones… Read more »
According to WT 11/15/2013 p.20 par.17: “At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” But in Romans 12:1-2: “Consequently I entreat you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your… Read more »
Well said, The Real Anonymous. Now the defenders of WT doctrine would put forward examples like that of Moses leading the Israelites to the very unstrategic encampment before the Red Sea allowing the Egyptians to box them in. However, such a defense is flawed. The Israelites were not abandoning their power of reason. Reason would have told them that God was with Moses. What other conclusion could they reasonably draw after witnessing 10 devastating plagues. If we are to us Moses as an example of obedience to the Governing Body, then we have to show why it is reasonable to… Read more »
So if I grow old and die in this system, I will have spent my entire life worrying about surviving impending Armageddon…for nothing. Ok
My meeting- someone said that because Naham and Abital did not get their portion of the grain from the generous brothers of the north they should not have missed the meeting.
Thats like the one i heard because gideon had his army whittled down to 300 that shows that its important to report our time in the ministry .
That’s just too funny.
The account of Gideon might justify group statistics, but would not justify individual reports. The 300 men that lapped up water instead bending down on their knees were not individually asked exactly how much water they drank.
Meleti, your concern exactly matches what I have been saying to anyone that will listen. Having recently stopped going to the meetings, I have been feeling a bit vulnerable. The reason is that it was very comforting to be in the organization and to have my future mapped before me in a cut and dried kind of way. I just had to be part of the congregation and go in the field and I was saved. My level of spirituality and relationship with Jehovah and Jesus did not matter as all I had to do was make sure I was… Read more »
Hi Meleti, I just came from the meeting , the last question met the objective as the watchtower intended, there was brothers at my meeting resolving in their hearts to obey any instructions that they received through the faithful slave, some even brought up the statement that was use at this year convention ” that they will follow it even if it does not sound logically from a worldly stand point” so to your point even in this date and time it would seems that much of the brothers still believe every word of the GB of Jehovah’s even more… Read more »
Meleti, you bring up a number of interesting points. For the WT to believe it is going to be “the last man standing”, it would have to be the one true religion. For the many readers of this site who don’t believe WT qualifies as such, they would end up being destroyed with all the other false religions, and (assuming their proposed scenario is correct in general), some OTHER organization will be that “last man”. Well, the reality is likely to be far more interesting than the theory, I suspect. Just wondering out loud, could it be that various attacks… Read more »
Good points meleti and T R A on the point minimising the role of christ . To my mind when someone says they are gods spokesman are they not really standing in for christ and really claiming to be the word of god the logos . Isnt it christ that is gods spokesman . Hebrews 1 v 1;2 another description is they are gods channel of communication but did jesus not say that we must approach god through his name and his name only . Without doubt they have set themselves up as leaders and masters over our faith but… Read more »
It is the individual not the religion or organization.
Yes, the scriptures say that except for Christ, there is no other name by which men may be saved, but WT says that survival through Armageddon can only be obtained by approved association with “God’s organization”. If you do a search on the WT CD for “surviv* organization” you will see how many times they make this claim. They say that the only organization that will survive is the WT, and the only way to survive is to be part of it. Of course, in saying this, we can put two and two together, and realize when they expel persons… Read more »
“But, isn’t being a prophet something that WT has disavowed” Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah’s witnesses have been and are God’s prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world’s end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God’s foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet? 14 By the historical facts of the… Read more »
Correct, Miken. Being a prophet is something that WT has disavowed RECENTLY. From the 1972 article, and the 1959 one you cited, they “shouted” in the past that they were prophets, but in the present they “whisper” that they are not.