[this article is contributed by Alex Rover]
In part 1 of this article, we have examined the Calvinistic teaching of Total Depravity. Total Depravity is the doctrine describing the human condition before God as creatures who are completely dead in sin and unable to save themselves.
The problem we found with this doctrine is in the word ‘total’. While human depravity is an indisputable fact, we demonstrated in part 1 the problems arising from taking it to Calvinistic extremes. I believe that the key to approaching this topic with the correct balance is found in 1 Corinthians 5:6
"Don't you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?"
We can see humans as both evil and good at the same time, each having a portion of the yeast that is sin, hence fully dead. Therefore, I submit that it is possible to see humans as inherently good and still be able to satisfy the fact of us being wholly dead in sin and unable to save ourselves.
Imagine: a certain woman is 99% good, and 1% sinful. If we met such a woman, we would probably call her a saint. But the 1% of sinfulness would act as yeast, and would make her 100% dead in sin, and unable to save herself.
Something is missing from the picture. How can she be 100% dead in sin, yet be 99% good?
Holy, Holy, Holy
In Isaiah’s vision of Jehovah God in His Glory, one seraphim calls out to another and said:
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory.” (Isaiah 6:2 ESV)
At this, the doorposts were shaking and the temple of Jehovah was filled with smoke. That’s when Isaiah realized and said: “I am ruined for I am a man of unclean lips.” Unless we truly appreciate our Father’s ultimate Holiness, we cannot understand our own depravity. Even the tiniest speckle of sin would make us fall down on our knees before our superlatively Holy Father. In this light we proclaim: “WOE IS ME, FOR I AM RUINED” (Isaiah 6:5 NASB).
Then one of the Seraphim flew to Isaiah with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar. He touched his mouth with it and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips, and your wickedness is removed and your sin is atoned for.” (Isaiah 6:6-7)
Only if our sins are atoned for, we can approach God and start to know him as a Father. We understand that we are totally dead in our sin and unworthy to approach him without our mediator Christ. Meditating on his enduring love and activity (Psalm 77:12) along with his Holiness will help us to develop a genuine bond with him and never allow our hearts to be hardened.
Hymns of Dawn - Holy, Holy, Holy
[audio mp3="http://meletivivlon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/335.mp3"][/audio]
1 Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee:
Holy, holy, holy! merciful and mighty!
God in The Highest, blessed Majesty.
2 Holy, holy, holy! all the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Which wast, and art, and evermore shalt be.
3 Holy, holy, holy! though the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see,
Only Thou art holy; there is none beside Thee
Perfect in pow’r, in love, and purity.
4 Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy Name, in earth, and sky, and sea,
Holy, holy, holy! merciful and mighty!
Yea, let thy Son be blest eternally.
In His Image
In his image we were made, to resemble his Holiness, to abound in love and wisdom and might. To reflect his glory. (Gen 1:27)
Let’s analyze Genesis 2:7:
“The LORD Yahweh formed the man from the soil of the ground [ha adam] and breathed into his nostrils the breath [neshamah, 5397] of life, and the man became a living being [nephesh, 5315].”
What does it mean to be in God’s image? Does it refer to our body? If we were in God’s image by body, then wouldn’t we have a spiritual body? (Compare 1 Corinthians 15:35-44) Observe from Genesis 2:7 what exactly caused man to be a living being in his image? God’s neshamah. What distinguishes us from other living souls is neshamah, it causes us to have understanding (Job 32:8) and a conscience (Proverbs 20:27).
We were given a perishable natural body, but what makes us human is Jehovah’s neshamah. If he is Holy, Holy, Holy, then Holiness is the essence of what makes us human. In other words, we were made with perfect understanding of what is good, and a perfect conscience. Adam had no understanding of “good and evil”. (Genesis 2:17)
Adam’s perishable body was sustained by the tree of life (Genesis 2:9,16), but as sin entered his understanding and tainted his conscience, he lost access to this tree, and his body started decaying just like the dust that he was. (Genesis 3:19) It is important the difference between flesh and spirit. In flesh we are not all that different from animals - it is the neshamah which makes us uniquely human.
So if total depravity were possible, then we would consequently need to be stripped of all goodness, and there would be no neshamah left, leaving only the flesh but no trace of God’s Holiness. Did such a thing happen?
The Fall of Man
After the fall of Adam, he became a father, a grandfather and eventually his offspring had begun to fill the earth.
“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—“ (Romans 5:12)
“[Adam] is the figure of him that was to come.” (Romans 5:14)
“For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.” (Romans 5:15)
Adam has the role of a type of Christ. Just as we inherit grace from Christ directly and not genetically from our own father, we inherit death through sin from Adam. We all die in Adam, not in our own father. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
Sins of the Father
Contrary to what I was raised to believe, a child does not bear the sins of the Father.
"...sons [shall not] be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.” (Deuteronomy 24:16; Compare Ezekiel 18:20)
This is not in contradiction with Exodus 20:5 or Deuteronomy 5:9, for those verses deal with people in a federal headship arrangement (such as children of Abraham or Adam) or in a covenant arrangement (such as with the people of Israel under the law of Moses).
Children are born innocent. Jesus did not describe them as “wholly inclined to all evil”, “opposite to all good”. Instead he used them as a model for all believers to imitate. (Matthew 18:1-3) Paul used infants as a model of purity for Christians. (1 Corinthians 14:20) Children were allowed to enter Canaan while their parents were denied. Why?
“...your little ones who […] have no knowledge of good and evil shall enter”. (Deuteronomy 1:34-39)
Jesus himself was fully human and was innocent “before he knows enough to refuse evil and choose good”. (Isaiah 7:15-16) Children are innocent, and this is why Jehovah abhors human sacrifices of children. (Jeremiah 19:2-6)
We do not inherit other people’s sin, but we are born innocent and when we gain “knowledge of good and evil”, our “own sins are separating us from our God” (Isaiah 59:1-2).
Sin Not Imputed When there is No Law
Our dying is the curse of Adam, related to “knowledge of good and evil”. Adam was created with a perfect knowledge of good, thanks to the spirit of God [neshamah] within him. We already demonstrated that neshamah gives us understanding and a conscience. Compare this to Romans 5:13-14:
”...until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed where there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam.”
Death reigned from Adam until Moses, even without a written Law. So is there another law? Yes, the spirit of God [neshamah] was teaching the complete will of God, of what is good. After the original sin, God did not take away this spirit from mankind completely. Let’s examine some evidence for this:
"And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not always strive with [contend with, abide in, plead with] man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:3)
Since Noah and his pre-Flood-born children lived well over a hundred and twenty years, we can observe a special situation of mankind between Adam and the Flood: God’s Neshamah was striving with the flesh. Pre-flood humans had a greater amount of neshamah than post-Flood humans, and this was directly related to their longevity. But if they had a greater amount of neshamah, they should have a better understanding of God’s will. Just like with Adam, there was no need for a written Law, for the spirit of God was abiding in men, and was teaching them all things.
Keeping this in mind, what did Jehovah observe?
“The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time”. (Genesis 6:5)
Here Scripture describes the human race as having become so depraved that there was no return. Can we understand God’s anger? Despite his striving with mankind, their hearts were only evil all the time. They were grieving the striving spirit of God at every inclination.
So was God’s neshamah completely removed from mankind after the flood? No! True, his neshamah would no longer be striving with the flesh to extent in had in the past, but we are reminded that we remain in God’s image:
"Whoever sheds human blood, by other humans must his blood be shed; for in God's image God has made humankind." (Genesis 9:6)
Consequently there remains a conscience within us, a capacity for goodness within each human. (Compare Romans 2:14-16) Since all humans since Adam have died, there remains a law which we violate. If there is a law, there is the spirit of God within each man. If there is the spirit of God within each man, there is the free will to act in accordance with this law.
This is great news, for although “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we are not totally void of neshamah, the spirit-breath of God.
Total Unity with God
"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one” (John 17:22)
In order to be united with God, two conditions must be present:
- The knowledge of “good” needs to be whole, complete, and:
- (a) We must have no “knowledge of good and evil”, like pre-fall Adam or:
(b) We have “knowledge of good and evil” but do not sin, like Jesus Christ or:
(c) We have “knowledge of good and evil”, sin, but full atonement is made for this sin, and ultimately we sin no more, like the glorified Congregation.
It was always God’s will that man would live in total unity with God.
In regards to point 1, the written law of Moses was a tutor leading up to Christ. It was teaching God’s will at a time when men’s consciences were seared through sin. Then Christ taught us the complete will of God. He said:
“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.” (John 17:6)
While Jesus Christ was with them, he kept them in God’s will (John 17:12), but he would not always be there in person. So he promised:
“But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you.” (John 14:26)
Thus condition 1 has been made possible in Christ’s ministry and thereafter through the Holy Spirit. This doesn’t mean we already know everything, but that we are progressively being taught.
In regards to point 2, we have knowledge of good and evil, but we also know that we are sinners, and require some form of ransom or payment for our sin. When we believe in Christ, such ransom is paid, causing our “wickedness to be removed”. (Isaiah 6:6-7)
Unity with our Holy Father is possible, but only when we are considered holy as well. This is why we stress the importance of partaking at the memorial, because Christ gave his blood to cleanse our sins. We are unable to save ourselves aside from Christ, unable to be justified if he is not our mediator.
The unanimous declaration of the congress of the United States of America on July 4th, 1776 was: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” Each and every one of us is capable of goodness, since we all have the very thing that makes us human: neshamah, the breath of God. No matter if we sin 1% or 99%, we can be considered 100% forgiven!
“But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation” (Colossians 1:22)
So let us praise our Holy, Holy, Holy Father and share this Good News which was given to us, the ministry of reconciliation! (2 Corinthians 5:18)
Archived Comments
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Comment by apollos0fAlexandria on 2015-12-17 11:33:32
Some interesting thoughts Alex. Thanks.
How does Ps 51:5 factor into the "innocent children" framework?
"Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, a sinner the moment my mother conceived me." (NET)Reply by J-A-T on 2015-12-18 02:33:35
You say that ‘We do not inherit other people’s sin, but we are born innocent…’
However, Paul says that ‘through one man sin entered into the world…’
David said: ‘in sin my mother conceived me.’
Who would you like me to believe?Reply by arover2014 on 2015-12-18 03:17:04
1- I don't deny the original sin from Adam, so J-A-T I don't dispute Paul:
Adam has the role of a type of Christ. Just as we inherit grace from Christ directly and not genetically from our own father, we inherit death through sin from Adam. We all die in Adam, not in our own father. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
2- About Psalm 51:5
What is innocence? Your body can be inclined to do things God doesn't approve of, but not knowing it - Children are innocent, the Bible teaches it clearly. David writes as an adult who already very much became aware of good and evil through coming of age and through the Law. As a cell in the womb of his mother he was not aware of good and evil, so he could not himself knowingly sin. A cursory review of Bible Commentaries will affirm David is writing as an adult reflecting on original sin.
John Morison:
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, etc. (Psalm 51:5) We are not to suppose that David here reflects upon his parents as the medium of transmitting to him the elements of moral evil; and that by the introduction of the doctrine of original sin he intended to extenuate the enormity of his own crimes. On the contrary, we are to regard him as afflicting himself by the humbling consideration that his very nature was fallen, that his transgressions flowed from a heart naturally at enmity with God; that he was not a sinner by accident, but by a depravity of purpose extending to the innermost desires and purposes of the soul; and that there was "a law in his members, warring against the law of his mind, and bringing him into captivity to the law of sin and death" Romans 7:23 ; and that he was one of a race of guilty beings, none of whom could plead an exemption from an evil heart of unbelief, ready at all times to depart from the living God. Till we see sin in the fountain of the heart, we shall never truly mourn over it in the life and conversation.Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2015-12-19 09:25:57
Hi Alex - I have to agree with Susan that this is a tough topic, so don't take my questions on this as criticism. I too would like to see where it goes.
I also agree with Susan's explanation of what Jesus meant in saying to become like little children. When you say that then Bible clearly teaches that children are innocent, do you mean something above and beyond this admonition of Jesus?
My next question would have to be why God commanded that even the smallest children be slaughtered in the Israelite invasions of Canaan. e.g. 1 Sam 15:3 "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (ESV). I do have my own thoughts on that, but they would be challenged if those children were innocent in the way you describe.
Is it possible that the problem is that the word "Innocent" (as at Jer 19:5) does not necessarily mean the opposite of sinful?
For example (and there are lots) take Deut 27:25. “‘Cursed be anyone who takes a bribe to shed innocent blood.’ (ESV). It appears that this is referring to taking a bribe to kill someone of any age. But the point is that the person is innocent of any crime that should incur capital punishment under the law that humans would administer. But this had nothing directly to do with inherited sin under which all were worthy of death at God's hand.
ApollosReply by Alex Rover on 2015-12-22 07:56:15
I understand innocence as a state where a parent does not take the sin into account because of the ignorance of the child: they do not realize that their action is sinful.
hope that helpsReply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2015-12-22 09:02:06
It does help in terms of better understanding your thinking. What I'm also interested in though is the scriptural support. I gave one example of the use of this word "innocent" (naqiy). If you check out the general usage I'm not sure it fits well with your definition. If it's being used with regards to adults in the same sense as to children then doesn't that pose a problem to your understanding? And if it's being used differently in those specific scriptures that do reference children then we'd need some way of knowing that the intended meaning is different.
See this link and scroll down for scriptures:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5355&t=KJVReply by Anonymous on 2016-12-27 05:43:28
Thanks Apollos !
So would you say the traditional understanding is not accurate?
Can you give me a sample presentation for a person who believes God somehow inflicts suffering?
KM style;)
Reply by Anonymous on 2016-12-26 15:05:38
That passage makes no sense
The JEWs say Japheth heard god.
Tell me how ? A page is missing or something or I'm wrong
Reply by Justanotherpublisher on 2015-12-28 09:42:06
Maybe the command from Yaweh to also include cananite children in the killing and destruction of canaan and later of the Midianite boys under 20 in Numbers 21, was to protect the seed? At a young age, they are "innocent", however, when they grew up they would maybe want to take revenge on the israelites
Reply by Anonymous on 2016-12-26 15:03:48
Ummm can somebody figure out why jappeth performed human sacrifice??
Gods people had a problem with killing kids
It's the worst insult for a Hebrew man
Jeremiah condemns the behavior later
Reply by Anonymous on 2016-12-26 15:13:35
That's what I think!
God always told him he would cut their generation off for disobedience....
Reply by Anonymous on 2016-12-27 05:40:09
Hi!
How do we balance Romans 3:10 and Isaiah 45:7?
Are these relevant to this discussion at all?
Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-12-21 19:48:57
Alex, I believe when you said, "Just as we inherit grace from Christ directly and not genetically from our own father, we inherit death through sin from Adam" you have made a misstatement. A search for "undeserved kindness" in the NWT, which I assume you are equating to "grace", shows very little about how it is obtained. Much is said about undeserved kindness coming or originating from God and Christ, how people prosper under the effect of undeserved kindness, and mostly that they "have" undeserved kindness or that it simply exists.
But, as for the means by which people come to possess undeserved kindness, the very few instances where this is touched upon are 100% unanimous: It is a GIFT. It is given by God and/or Christ. No where is the notion that undeserved kindness can be "inherited" mentioned or even implied.Reply by Alex Rover on 2015-12-22 07:59:10
Hi TRA,
this deals with limited salvation vs broad intercession. I think I posted on that before. Limited salvation in the sense for Christians who receive the blood of Christ directly by adoption. In that sense we become partakers of the inheritance - a biblical expression. Unless you would argue that this arrangement is possible outside of our relation to Christ, which I think not the case.
Broad intercession / mercy for the nations - grace for all disposed toward goodness - not as inheritance but as a free gift.
Comment by Father jack on 2015-12-19 07:31:02
Alex thanks for the article , but im not sure what point you are trying to make where is this heading . Or will that be revealed in the next part . FJ
Comment by Susan on 2015-12-19 08:46:45
Hi Alex, tough topic. For me, Total Depravity is like a Rubik's Cube. For the last couple of years, I pick it up now and then, shift some sides, but still fail to solve it. So I don't mean to be critical but you appear to agree with your own definition of Total Depravity. :-)
First paragraph definition: "the human condition before God as creatures who are completely dead in sin and unable to save themselves."
Your third paragraph assertion: "the fact of us being wholly dead in sin and unable to save ourselves."
Also your interesting quote from John Morison: "race of guilty beings, none of whom could plead an exemption from an evil heart of unbelief, ready at all times to depart from the living God."
It needs to be explained that the Total, in Total Depravity is NOT referring to percentage of sin, as if we are 100% as sinful as we could possibly be. It is referring to the Totality of our Being: that sin affects the whole person, emotions, will and intellect.
The question of children is an emotionally packed issue. When Jesus said to imitate children, I don't believe he was referring to a lack of sin (A friend of mine used to say, "Just put 2 toddlers in a room with one toy and see what happens.") - but rather Jesus wants us to have child-like trust. Some people claim there is an "age of accountability" but then we need to argue what that would be, and does that mean there are 2 ways to be saved: either by dying before the age of accountability or trusting in Jesus after that age??
Then there is the issue of "being good" in the first place. What constitutes good? As in Luke 18:19 only God is good, so some would say we are incapable of a truly good work apart from the working of God in us, which leaves unbelievers out, and only makes their deeds relative, but not up to God's standards.
Along with our problem of the little yeast corrupting the entire loaf, I am reminded of the somewhat corollary of James 2:10.
So I don't know how far you were planning on taking this topic but the supreme issue in Total Depravity comes from understanding the continuum from Pelagianism, to Semi-Pelagianism to Total Depravity and where we would fall in that continuum. Do we have the ability in ourselves to turn to God or does it require his intervening Grace?Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-12-19 12:16:11
Susan,
As with much of the scriptures, Luke 18:19 can lead to seeming contradictions if taken in an absolute, literal sense: "And a certain ruler questioned him, saying: “Good Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life?” 19 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God."
Do we believe this literally? If so, then we must ask, if nobody is good except God, and Jesus is not God (please, no Trinity arguments today), then it means that Jesus is not good. [If Jesus WERE God, then what reason would he have to object to being called "good", if he just said that God was good?]
So if Jesus is not good, which part of him is not good? Hebrews 4:15 says that Jesus "... has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin." Of course Jesus was good. That much is so obvious, "a blind man could see it".
Well, then, what are we to make of Luke 18:19? Simply that while Jesus CONFORMED to God's standard of goodness, he did not DEFINE that standard. Jesus was not free to "ad lib" his own standards of goodness as he saw fit, nor was he free to ignore those standards. So, he saw no need to accept praise for something he was obligated to do anyway, as an obedient son.Reply by Susan on 2015-12-19 14:10:07
Hi TRA,
Without going Trinitarian on you :-) Jesus is in no way denying his own goodness. As I mentioned in my post about what constitutes acceptable goodness? God was working through Jesus and Jesus was working for the glory of God! Perfect!
Likewise for Christians, Phil 2:13 "for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose." However, Christians are not as consistent or capable as Jesus. And of course, non believers don't have this interaction going on at all.
It is possible this dialogue between Jesus and the ruler was to make the man THINK first before engaging in indiscriminate or even insincere flattery. Because he says, “Good Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life?” but then walks away sad, because he is UNABLE? or UNWILLING? to do it. And he was supposedly expecting good advice.
My ESV Study Bible note would add, "Only in understanding God as infinitely good can he [the ruler] discover that human good deeds cannot earn eternal life."
Reply by apollos0falexandria on 2015-12-20 10:22:23
As you posted this yesterday, can I use my Trinity argument now?
:)Reply by The Real Anonymous on 2015-12-20 22:48:08
Wise guy :-))
Comment by Father jack on 2015-12-19 13:30:47
I dont think children are innocent either alex it has always seemed to me that we are born to naturally do things against gods law of righteousness and doing the right thing has to be learned by experience . Its just incredible how selfish children can be right from the start of interaction with others . Ive seen it in the playground . Im sure this is why the law had to be taught to the little ones . Duet 6
Comment by Anonymous on 2016-12-26 11:03:25
Can we take another look at fate and calvins doctrine in light of today :)
Comment by Anonymous on 2016-12-26 14:54:09
Beautiful!
Comment by Atom Ant on 2020-03-12 06:37:31
Great article. How about the ULIP?