This isn't the first time I've seen this. I have a very close friend of 40 years who gets very disturbed when I bring up anything that might make him question his belief. Yet, he very much wants to remain my friend, and enjoys our time together. We both have an unspoken agreement to simply not venture into the taboo area.
This kind of intentional blindness is a common reaction. I'm no psychologist, but it sure seems like some form of denial. It is by no means the only type of reaction one gets. (Many experience outright opposition, and even ostracism, when speaking about Bible truths to Witness friends.) However, it is common enough to warrant further exploration.
What I see—and I've very much appreciated the insight and experiences of others along these lines—is that these ones chose to remain in the life they've come to accept and love, the life that gives them a sense of purpose and an assurance of God's approval. They are convinced they are going to be saved as long as they go to meetings, go out in service, and follow all the rules. They are happy with this status quo, and don't want to examine it at all. They want nothing to threaten their world view.
Jesus spoke about blind guides leading blind men, but it still is baffling to us when we attempt to restore sight to the blind and they intentionally close their eyes. (Mt 15:14)
This subject came up at a propitious time, because one of our regular readers wrote in about a conversation he is having by email with family members which is very much in this vein. His argument is based on this week's CLAM Bible Study. There we find Elijah reasoning with the Jews whom he accuses of "limping upon two different opinions".
"...those people did not realize that they had to choose between the worship of Jehovah and the worship of Baal. They thought that they could have it both ways—that they could appease Baal with their revolting rituals and still ask favors of Jehovah God. Perhaps they reasoned that Baal would bless their crops and herds, while “Jehovah of armies” would protect them in battle. (1 Sam. 17:45) They had forgotten a basic truth—one that still eludes many today. Jehovah does not share his worship with anyone. He demands and is worthy of exclusive devotion. Any worship of him that is mixed with some other form of worship is unacceptable to him, even offensive!" (ia chap. 10, par. 10; emphasis added)
In a previous article, we learned that the most common word for worship in Greek—the one implied here—is proskuneo, which means "to bend the knee" in submission or servitude. So the Israelites were trying to submit to two rival God's. The false god of Baal, and the true God, Jehovah. Jehovah wouldn't have it. As the article says with unwitting irony, this is a basic truth "that still eludes many today."
The irony continues with paragraph 11:
"So those Israelites were “limping” along like a man trying to follow two pathways at once. Many people today make a similar mistake, allowing other “baals” to creep into their life and push aside the worship of God. Heeding Elijah’s clarion call to stop limping can help us to reexamine our own priorities and worship." (ia chap. 10, par. 11; emphasis added)
The fact is that most Jehovah's Witnesses do not want to "reexamine [their] own priorities and worship." Thus, most JWs won't see the irony in this paragraph. They would never consider the Governing Body to be a type of "baal." Yet, they will faithfully and unquestioningly obey every teaching and direction from that body of men, and when someone suggests that perhaps submission (worship) to those instructions might conflict with submission to God, these same ones will turn a deaf ear and carry on as if nothing had been said.
Proskuneo (worship) means abject submission, the unquestioning obedience which we should only give to God, through Christ. Adding in a body of men to that chain of command is both unscriptural and damning to us. We may fool ourselves by saying that we are obeying God through them, but do we not think that the Israelites of Elijah's day also reasoned that they were serving God and putting faith in him?
Faith is not the same thing as belief. Faith is more complex than simple belief. It means firstly to believe in the character of God; i.e., that He will do good, and will keep his promises. That belief in God's character motivates the man of faith to do works of obedience. Look at the examples of faithful men and women as put forth in Hebrews 11. In each case, we see they believed that God would do good, even when there were no specific promises; and they acted in accordance with that belief. When there were specific promises, together with specific commands, they believed the promises and obeyed the commands. That is essentially what faith is.
This is more than believing that God exists. The Israelites believed in him and even worshipped him to a point, but they hedged their bets by worshipping Baal at the same time. Jehovah promised to protect them and to give them the bounty of the land if they obeyed his commands, but that wasn't good enough. Obviously, they weren't fully convinced Jehovah would keep his word. They wanted a "Plan B."
My friends are like that, I fear. They believe in Jehovah, but in their own way. They don't want to deal with him directly. They want a Plan B. They want the comfort of a belief structure, with other men to tell them what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad, how to please God and what to avoid so as not to displease him.
Their carefully constructed reality provides them with comfort and security. It is a paint-by-numbers form of worship that requires them to attend two meetings a week, go out in the door to door work regularly, attend conventions, and obey whatever the men of the Governing Body tell them to do. If they do all those things, everyone they care about will continue to like them; they can feel superior to the rest of the world; and when Armageddon comes, they will be saved.
Like the Israelites in the time of Elijah, they have a form of worship of which they believe God approves. Like those Israelites, they believe they are putting faith in God, but it is a facade, a pseudo-faith which will prove false when put to the test. Like those Israelites, it will take something truly shocking to break them free of their complacency.
One can only hope that it doesn't come too late.
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Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-03-03 13:07:48
"it will take something truly shocking to break them free of their complacency"
Our Father's promise:
Malachi 4:5 "Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons, and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.”
Have faith in Christ. He will send help and it won't come too late for the honest-hearted blind ones!
Comment by Joshua on 2016-03-03 14:43:48
"One can only hope that it doesn’t come too late."
Not sure what you mean by that, Meleti.
Most Catholics, most Protestants, will not leave their Christian home for another. Jesus searched for, and fed, the minority not the majority. Only a comparative few will come here seeking encouragement, association, and scriptural insight.
If you have found one lost sheep but the other 99 do not want to go with you then count your blessings that God has seen fit to deliver that one sheep into your care. In other words, feeding the sheep we are in association with is our primary mission not fighting the Watchtower.
Having said that, all sincere Christians belong to Christ and he will help them, none will be lost. Sincere Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT lost they are waiting as all Christians today are waiting. Waiting for Christ.
JoshuaReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-03 16:35:47
I was trying to express--albeit poorly--the sentiments expressed here:
“But do you suppose, O man, that while you judge those who practice such things and yet you do them, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, because you do not know that God in his kindness is trying to lead you to repentance?” (Ro 2:3, 4)
“Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2Pe 3:9)Reply by Joshua on 2016-03-03 22:57:37
Brother,
On the basis of the two scriptures you quoted the JWs are correct, most people are doomed. How many Christians are blind, even willfully blind, to the religious error taught/practiced in their respective religions? In my opinion, most.
When we "preach" our new found knowledge why should most JWs listen and believe? Do we offer a better association? Will their children find friends among us? Will we here ever exchange a warm handshake or all the sisters visit one another? Will the brothers here gather together for a meal or a game?
All this first century Christians had, all this all Christians in every Christian religion have.
Then of course is the severe lack of leadership which, though we may have grown to enjoy the freedom of believing as we will, most Christians nevertheless want because appointed leadership is a hallmark of God's people in the Bible.
I do not attempt to take JWs out of their religion because I have no established congregation to bring them to. No association for their young children and teens, no congregational association period. It is this vacuum of physical Christian association which has been the root cause of so many exjws losing their faith.
Every Christian religion has error but until Christ comes better a leaky roof than no roof at all.
Your brother in all things,
JoshuaReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-03 23:35:14
You are right if we accept the point of view of all organized religion that salvation depends on membership and that when Jesus comes the choices will be between eternal life and eternal death. This is, of course, the view of Jehovah's Witnesses. Everyone on earth at Armageddon will die eternally unless they are members of the JW faith. Baptists, Adventists, and most other Christian religions believe variations on this theme.
I no longer see this as scripturally accurate. I'm working on a detailed analysis of what the Christian hope really is, but I doubt it will be done before the memorial.Reply by Joshua on 2016-03-04 00:01:45
The hope Christ preached in the first century is the same hope today:
A little flock called by Christ's Father to be his brothers and be subordinate rulers during his Kingdom.
Reply by sackcloth on 2016-03-04 16:26:37
I agree with your sentiments, Meleti. We could continue remaining in a complacent state by thinking sincere JWs are NOT lost since they await Christ, as do any who NOW realize that salvation is only through Christ and not the WT. Christ expects us to accept his light completely, not partially. 1 John 1:5,6
Our sincerity in our belief in Christ can be shown by our love for those needing to be snatched out of the fire. Not only is it compassion that would cause us to speak boldly, but fear for the very lives of those “limping on two opinions”. Acts 19:8; Jude 1:20-23
Elijah exposed the unfruitful works of the darkness, the Elijah of our day would do the same. This is how the pure light of Christ becomes evident. Eph 5:8-13
Jesus told his apostles to feed his sheep. If this means feeding them truth that can cause them discomfort, do we back off? No, the Great Tribulation offers no comfort in earthly terms, only turmoil. True peace comes from redirecting the focus onto the heavenly, which is foreign to those in the WT, but is what they need to survive. Col 3:1,2; Phil 2:12-16
Elijah and Moses both appeared with Jesus before the disciples and stood on either side of Christ. Elijah revealed the sins of the people, Moses led the people out of captive Egypt. It appears the qualities and assignments of both men combined will be made manifest in the last Elijah. I believe the “two witnesses” are Elijah, all anointed ones (two meaning truth) who are awake to both the sins of Christs’ chosen priests and their once captive state in the organization. Both Elijah and Moses preached a restoration of God’s people, which is in line with Christ’s call to “come out”, to where the “eagles gather” and a spiritual blessing of truth. Zech 4:11-14; Rev 11:3,4; Luke 17:37
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.” Rev 3:20
Why wouldn’t we desire to proclaim and encourage this invitation to all in the organization? They believe their spiritual feast reaches them via men, whose minds are filled with confusion. All true followers of Christ become Sons of God in the Kingdom, and it seems all of us can share in this restoration call by “Elijah” without hesitancy in doing so, since love would be our motivation. Ezek 14:22; Luke 1:16,17
I believe your articles, Meleti, help with that call. It is the quest for the blessing of Holy Spirit that causes us to continue listening, as well as asking everyone we know if they hear it too. 2 Cor 6:14-18Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-04 16:42:08
You've given me a lot of food for thought, Sackcloth. I have often wondered about the Eagles metaphor at Mt 24:28. Thank you.
Reply by Joshua on 2016-03-04 20:02:31
Sackcloth,
It feels like the right thing to announce the error of the Watchtower to all we meet in the Organization but with that good feeling comes responsibility. Moses did not lead the Jews out of Egypt merely to drop them in the desert. He worked for them, organized them, taught them, built their Tabernacle, instituted their priesthood etc. He dedicated his life to them.
Christ did not just throw out criticisms or expose hypocrisy. He LED, he taught and formed a new Jewish assembly/congregation. Jesus did not take out and abandon, he dedicated himself to teaching and helping his disciples.
When we help to personally remove people from their religion we as Christians have a RESPONSIBILITY to provide religious succor. Spiritual food, shelter, and association.
To open their eyes and then declare the job done is to leave them in the desert exposed to the anti-Christian buzzards in the world seeking an easy kill.
Let's open our own eyes first: most who leave the Witnesses lose their faith first in the Bible, then religion in general, then God. It is hard work to keep a stumbled Christian spiritually alive. Many questions need answering, many problems need quality advice, many sighs, tears and down cast hearts need a shoulder or arm to lean on. Ministers of God cannot fully accomplish their ministry in a virtual world because those we minister to live in a flesh and blood world with flesh and blood problems.
Someone in government said of Iraq, if we break it we own it, apparently pointing out the great responsibility the American government was taking on. If someone in secular government recognizes that heavy responsibility how much more weight should Christians feel when breaking a fellow Christian's religious home.
Let me be clear as to what I am NOT saying. I am NOT saying we should keep what we know to ourselves, no. But rather when we do speak recognizing that we have become a minister to any who hear and as a minister we should be ready to provide a lifetime of physical fellowship and spiritual succor as Jesus himself did.
JoshuaReply by sackcloth on 2016-03-06 18:57:52
“But rather when we do speak recognizing that we have become a minister to any who hear and as a minister we should be ready to provide a lifetime of physical fellowship and spiritual succor as Jesus himself did.”
I absolutely agree with you, Joshua. It is the role of ministering priests to do this, in spirit and truth, which undoubtedly would be in love. Mal 2:7 It couldn’t be accomplished without Holy Spirit backing the endeavor by all of us, as well as pure truth in Christ.
“And I will give POWER to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” It is under the “measuring rod” of truth and the power of Holy Spirit that this is accomplished, thus it is those whose hearts are inclined to refinement who will respond. Rev 11:1,3
I believe we have to remember this is not our plan, brother. The testimony of the “two witnesses” IS the “two edged sword” from Christ. Isa 43:21; Rev 6:9; 1 Cor 4:1,2; Rev 1:16; Heb 4:12 How will we recognize this restoration if we have little faith in the Holy Spirit? The greatest test of this faith is relying on God to make it happen, and on the grace given those who sincerely desire to do his will. We are so far removed from physical miracles and events of wonderment by God that anyone proclaiming a blessing of Holy Spirit is questioned as to their sanity. Yet, we cannot deny that “greater things than these” were promised to occur. John 14:12-14; Matt 17:20; Isa 29:13,14
The process of awakening can’t be halted on the basis of our own parameters that we would like to see set in place. Isa 25:1,4;26:4,7;27:5,6 If one travels the virtual roads of the internet we see evidence of the initial “restoring of all things”, and obvious choices that people defend. The interesting thing is, many coming to Christ are realizing there is no other manmade avenue needed in the form of a literal “church”; thank goodness for this day and age of internet activity to connect us with those that crave truth. Yes, we want to physically be together; but if established on a large scale, do we expect it to come to proper fruition during Satan’s raging, and his disrupting sifting force piercing the very marrow of our being?
While in the WT, generally a blind eye is turned against the gravity of its sins we shared. Was it not the same in Elijah’s day? Meleti put it well: “Jehovah promised to protect them and to give them the bounty of the land if they obeyed his commands, but that wasn’t good enough. Obviously, they weren’t fully convinced Jehovah would keep his word. They wanted a “Plan B.” Among God’s people today, could it be that you may be suggesting a Plan C, Joshua?
With forthright speech, Elijah was able to get the people’s attention to their state of depravity. Under the WT’s oppression of man rule, those anointed and all sheep are unknowingly blocked from the understanding of God’s laws (love). However, once awakened with the forthright speech of another, how each heart reacts to this new focus is out of our hands. Heb 10:26-29
When Nehemiah was assigned to restore the Walls, he directed Ezra the Priest to read of God’s laws before the people. They reacted with great weeping in repentance. It was only then that the Levite priests comforted the people saying,
“This day is holy to the Lord your God; do not mourn nor weep.” For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the Law. Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.” So the Levites quieted all the people, saying, “Be still, for the day is holy; do not be grieved.” And all the people went their way to eat and drink, to send portions and rejoice greatly, because they understood the words that were declared to them. Neh 8:9b-12
Chosen ones since Christ have had the law written on their heart; once they uncover this reality, why would we stop a priest or anyone from declaring this law of love and leading all to Christ and his bounty of truth? Rom 2:15; Rev 9:14,15; Hos 6:5 This is the essence of Elijah and Moses in the “two witnesses”, and the bounty received is shared with all and by all who choose to do so. Luke 17:37; John 16:2 It is rather amazing how acting on the perfect and simple invitation of Jesus,“come to me”, provides sustenance to the downcast heart.
We expose and hate the corruption in order to express concern and love to the individual within its clutches. Prov 9:1-9 By once worshipping in spirit and truth, the restoration proceeds; the unification of Christ’s Temple will become a reality, all in the time frame and under the plan of God. Isa 26:1-4; 27:5,6; Ps 98:1-3; Zech 4:1-6; 14Reply by Joshua on 2016-03-11 21:16:15
Appreciate your reply, sackcloth.
No, I'm not advocating a Plan C.
I'm just concerned with the spiritual welfare of my brothers and sisters who are falling out of the Watchtower and into atheism/agnosticism.
Joshua
Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2016-03-09 14:19:11
I'd just like to add a thought to sackcloth's thought provoking reply. In turning to the example of Moses leading the Hebrews out of Egypt and subsequently caring for them, it is surely important to keep in mind that no man is the modern day Moses. That position goes to Jesus Christ (Heb 3:1-6). Therefore it is not as if we are as individuals at the helm leading others out of false worship and then need to construct a new tabernacle, etc. We are like fellow men and women who can point out to others that Jesus Christ is our leader and that he has made all the arrangements for us to worship in spirit and truth, It is not up to us to make such arrangements. A large part of the books of Hebrews is given over to explaining the arrangements that Christ has made possible.
Therefore nobody gets dropped off in "the wilderness" with nothing to replace their Egyptian culture. It is a matter of taking advantage of the arrangement that God has provided through the greater Moses. As fellow Christians we only point out the arrangements that are already in place under his command.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-09 14:32:59
Well said!
Comment by socrates1 on 2016-03-03 23:38:32
"Like the Israelites in the time of Elijah, they have a form of worship of which they believe God approves ... a pseudo-faith ..." How true.
When things get difficult the shocking truth is the one mentioned in the shepherding book, page 65: "Apostasy is ...Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses: (Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 John 7, 9, 10)"
The Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses? No need to worry about Jesus or God's view.
I agree with Joshua, You cannot fight this, but we can help individuals.
Comment by william on 2016-03-07 01:07:30
You say are disappointed with the response of some Witnesses to your efforts to help. Are you also disappointed with the response from your web site? Are you getting too little response, or response from the wrong kind of people?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-07 04:37:49
The disappointment I feel is with friends of whom I expected more. The web sites are another matter altogether. I started meletivivlon.com merely for research purposes. It has become so much more.
Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-03-07 04:57:49
Joshua has spoken very clearly that it is not enough to expose false teachings. Amen. Some posts only serve to attack the wrong teachings of JW's or other denominations. That's why I personally appreciate the posts that briefly show what's wrong, and then provide 'something good to chew on.' The writers/moderators in this website seem to be doing a good job of presenting truths in a concise way. Less time attacking, more time teaching...better! Some of the better posts are those that have just a few well selected scriptures that clearly state the point. Jesus practice was to select just a few scriptures needed to make his point. If the audience didn't get it with those few scriptures, he didn't worry about it. Either it was because their hearts were too hardened by pride for the message to penetrate, or they didn't want to learn more. Sometimes they just needed more time. Jesus knew that "the blind" would stay blind until they humbly recognized their lack of insight, at which time they would start to see (John 9:39-41). Happily, a few blind Pharisees became his disciples.
A few years ago, I had a young anointed ministerial servant show me something in the Bible that I had never seen before. That was the turning point because I realized I was blind. Now I'm seeing and have much to thank him for. That process will continue to happen, and it will accelerate at the start of the GT. Those of Jesus body will "shine" How? "True knowledge will become abundant," "those having insight will understand," and they will "impart understanding to the many," Joel 2:28,29 describes how some anointed Christians will shine with miraculous gifts. With all that happening, a big divide will take place. Because of the evident displays of the Holy Spirit upon the chosen ones, the sincere but blind will see clearly who has God's spirit, just like in the 1rst Century. At that time, the gifts of the spirit helped all sincere but blind ones to see who was the wheat and who was the weeds. Thus, they separated themselves from the weeds of the mainstream religion of Judaism. I believe the same will happen today. Jesus has promised that the distinction between the wheat and the weeds will be repeated in the GT. It will be between those claiming to be Christian and those that really are. Many will be brought to righteousness through evident displays of God's spirit on individuals, not organizations. But those who are wicked will quickly be identified because they will refuse to accept them and wlll "act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand." It will be a momentous time when people will have to chose whether to stay with a religious group that have refused to be corrected by their fellow Christians and have no gifts, nor insight. The other option is to recognize the obvious evidence of Jehovah's spirit upon a group of faithful that have 'sold all the things they have to buy truth.' It is true, Jesus pronounced "happy" those who have not seen and yet believe" (Jn 20:29) and those that were privileged to have the Father reveal things to them, instead of a man (Mt 16:17). Those of that class will have a special reward. But, for others that need to see something to believe, I believe Jesus will give them an opportunity. That is my hope and belief and will happen if and when Christ sees fit. I pray that as many as possible will humbly and whole-heartedly start to see, even if at the last minute. Think of the situation in Elijah's time. The people were blinded. They were unfaithful and idolizing. Was Jehovah just going to let them die in their error? Surely they had enough evidence, instruction and reminders to make a choice. Wasn't 3 1/2 years of drought more than proof that something was wrong and their god Baal was powerless? What did God do? The words of Elijah in 1 Kings 18:37 clearly show the motive behind the test of godship at Mt. Carmel: "Answer me so that this people may know that you, Jehovah, are the true God and that YOU ARE TURNING THEIR HEARTS BACK TO YOU." This shows that it was God, when faced with the unfair advantage Satan has to blind weak humans, decided to provide a miraculous way to make things extremely clear, for the sake of turning the hearts of his people back toward him. These were people that were really blind and slow to learn, so why would our Father and his beloved son have any less concern today for those who have been blinded into thinking that following a religious leader(s) will result in their survival?
In addition to all true Christians shining in one way or another, two prophets will be selected from among his congregation. I suppose some would like to think that Elijah and Moses represent the group of anointed ones. If you are of the body of Christ, then it might be temptation to think that God is using you as a "prophet" like Elijah. Humility would teach you the opposite. Not so long ago, David Splane really stretched it by saying because the GB are teaching, they are prophets. I hope we don't try to stretch it like that. We might prophecy partially, but none of us are appointed prophets. Prophesying is different from being an appointed prophet and direct spokesman for God. We all have mistakes in our understanding that are being corrected slowly. That's the proof. No one is a prophet until he is obviously selected and identified as one, and from that point on, everything he says will come true and everything he teaches will be completely accurate, without a possibility of being rebuffed by others as we do in our blogs. Although I wish to be an instrument in Christ's hands, I would fear for Christ to call me as a prophet. I think that fear of being prophet is a healthy thing. Those that have wanted to be prophets and claimed to be such, such as the GB and other church leaders have suffered disgrace. I can't think of a heavier responsibility on earth than being an appointed prophet. I feel that thinking that these two individuals represent a group, is a trace of ingrained WT teaching where in the Bible, one person supposedly represents a group. There are extremely few examples of where that is the case. We've got to get that out of our heads. The GB used the idea of a person to mean a group to apply it their group all the time. They are the Jeremiah class, the Ezequiel class, the Daniel class, the Elijah class, the John class, etc. I could go on for an hour. Surprisingly, they recently admitted they went too far with types and anti-types. They still teach that the 24 elders represent the 144,000. What a shame!
As followers of Christ, let us remain humble, knowing that Christ is using us now to attract others to the heavenly hope he spoke about so much. It was a Satanic thing that Rutherford closed the door to the heavenly hope in 1935 and the GB has supported him ever since. Satan doesn't want the full number brought in. Christ will use all of us in different ways to make sure that number is filled. But, he will definitely select two individuals to serve as his prophets. Just think: when the prophecy of someone like Elijah was first fulfilled, was it fulfilled by a group? No. It was fulfilled in ONE person, John the Baptist. There was no Elijah-like group, nor a Messiah-like group. We know there is an Elijah to come. There is also a Moses to come. Revelation 11 doesn't say where they spend their 3 1/2 years of prophesying, but it makes very clear that they finish their earthly course in Jerusalem and are resurrected from there. That emphasizes they are two individuals. We know that because the scriptures say that the rest of Christ's brothers are gathered (resurrected) from the four corners of the earth. We won't all be in Jerusalem. As well, the Jews had an excellent understanding of what the scriptures meant to say because the Bible was in their language. It wasn't for no reason that they asked John if he was the Christ, Elijah or the Prophet (Moses) in John 1:19-25. They knew exactly what the scriptures were talking about and the order. Of course their lack of humility prevented them from identifying them. But, they did have it right that there will be two prophets after the Messiah. In prophecy they have always been identified as two individuals, not a group. It will be an unforgettable blessing to have on this earth two individuals who will convey instructions from our Lord and Christ. I pray that I will be able to identify them and listen.
As far as not being able to provide association, I think that with faith in Christ, he brings together those who belong to each other. Isn't us who brings them into a congregation. The congregation is Jesus body and he takes care to bring them in. Rightly, as Joshua said, we need to minister as best we can. It won't compare with a congregation or circuit, but a small group of just a few people is enough. Each one of us can be the start of that. I learned not to fix my sights only on JW's or ex-JW''s. I found a brother in Christ who has never belonged to any religion. He knew from the get-go that Christ was his head. What a surprise! With time, those that have the same desire for truth as you do will find you and you will find them. Those who you find will be those that value truth more than a congregation full of publishers. Do we serve God and Christ only because we'll have a long list of people we can call at any moment to go and do something? That social aspect is unfortunately what keeps many from leaving the congregation although they see things that are wrong. There is a fear to step outside and find no one. Jesus promised that those that leave behind "brothers, sisters...for the sake of the good news" will find more. That is a promise we and others must trust. We can put ourselves on the map on this website. Identify yourself so others will know where you are and small groups will be formed. Pray about it. Let people know that they will find others in time. That's not your guarantee. It's Christ's.
With regards to the "gathering of the eagles," in the context of both gospels Jesus is concluding a point using a local expression to respond to the question: What will be the signs indicating that Jesus is near at the doors? (Mt 24:3 & Lu 17:20). I find the NWT is quite unclear. You might find that The New Living Translation puts it in a very simple way:
"Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near."
I'm travelling and don't have my Greek-English Bible or dictionary with me, but it is quite possible that the word used for eagle was actually a word to describe a raptor/bird of prey. Even if it was "eagles" it would still be a good expression because I've seen many eagles gather at a carcass just like a vulture.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm sick this weekend and have a bit of time on my hands. I'm also new to posting, so I'm probably not very good at it. Hope it's not 'weighty or forceful.'
Christian love.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-07 13:17:08
Thank you for your thoughtful post. The WT interpretation is full of contradictions. I wrote about this subject four years ago when just starting up Beroean Pickets. (See here.) However, I was still somewhat influenced by the JW mindset. I'm not convinced that the two witnesses refers to two literal individuals, but time will tell. It could be so. One thing I have no doubt about is this: the fulfillment is yet future.
I also appreciate your insight into Jesus' "eagle/vulture" metaphor. I wonder if it might mean more than simply a sign that the end is near. Could there be a link to the metaphor of the sons of the kingdom shining brightly? (Mt 13:43)
Again, time will tell.
Reply by sackcloth on 2016-03-07 17:37:16
"In addition to all true Christians shining in one way or another, two prophets will be selected from among his congregation. I suppose some would like to think that Elijah and Moses represent the group of anointed ones. If you are of the body of Christ, then it might be temptation to think that God is using you as a “prophet” like Elijah. Humility would teach you the opposite."
I don't know how anyone could be tempted to be a true prophet, since it comes with great responsibility and suffering from the examples we have in the bible. Only a false prophet would be so tempted for such a position lacking in any discomfort that is experienced by a true one.
Although, surely, the prophetic message starts with the call of one, with others unified in sharing that call since the Body is one in Christ. John 16:13
Rom 8:16 - "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God". This identifies “two witnesses” in the same manner Jesus used in John 8:14,16,18. John 17:21-23
The false prophet of Revelation is not necessarily one, is it? In reference to a true individual prophet, the biblical pattern seems to indicate that most refuse to listen or accept them. It would certainly take great effort in looking for, and discerning the blessing of good fruits by such one. This one would not be self-driven but at the service of all.
Comment by Menrov on 2016-03-07 07:15:52
Interesting topic and comments. Food for thought: did Jesus guide his followers to a congregation or did He just preach to them? Did Jesus confront the religious leaders or their members? Did Jesus make any distinction regarding who He would heal and who He would not heal? Was their any pre-requisite on Jesus side that was required in order to be healed by Jesus?
So, if we are followers of Christ, it is not so much the members we should "challenge" but those in the lead. We should inform all, JW's, Protestants etc, about wrong doctrines. In the end, it is up to each individual to act or not. Do we need or have to offer an alternative, like a congregation? Jesus did not. He was their shelter. Yes, to gather and meet is nice and can be very supportive. But like Rev. 18:4 shows, it is all about not being bound and urged to flee. It does not say to which organisation or congregation. Why? I guess because Christ is your shelter. Many of the apostles were rather on their own. To get organized in a congregation is not a must. It is recommended as long as it is in the benefit of the members and honors Christ.
From personal experience, I can see that it will be most difficult to convince JW's about the flaws in the WBTS doctrines and practices. Why? Because they value companionship with their fellow JW's more than truth. And this is understandable because due to the WBTS doctrines, a JW has no social life outside the JW congregation. Breaking with the congregation is like social suicide. In the view of most JW's, the world outside the congregation or organisation is bad, evil. All with bad people. And even if they see some wrongs in the organisation, the comment often is that this is because we are all human. With that latter comment, they ease their conscience. And what will a JW say to his non-believing or otherwise-believing family or colleagues or neighbors when s/he leave the organisation? That they were right? That the religion they defended and proclaimed for so long and with so much conviction, is wrong?
I remember the movie called At First Sight. The main character was blind all his life. He enjoyed his life, it had structure and people were very supportive. He fell in love, and believe got married. The a treatment was found to help blind people to recover sight. He accepted the treatment and indeed he could see more and more. Not perfectly but no longer fully blind. But now his life changed. His responsibilities changed. He was expected to be more independent now. It was a life he was not ready for, nor prepared for. It was too big a change. I believe the treatment was not long lasting and he became blind again. If my memory serves me well, the movie ends as it started: he had his old life back again and was happy.
The link: this person was aware of the defect (was blind, eyes did not work) but that was the life he knew. A JW also can become aware of the defects in his belief / organisation, but it is the life s/he knows. Waking up (recovering sight) is scary, will bring new responsibilities. Most JW;s are not ready nor prepared nor desiring such a change.
But, like Jesus did, we should not stop trying to wake people up because 1) there are also those who do not enjoy their current life in the organisation and would benefit if they receive help/support and 2) the impact of religious organisations with strong central control and doctrines that influence all aspects of the lives of the people in the organisation can be damaging or even dangerous. People make very serious choices because they are made to believe that what they are told and taught is true and is the only way to please our Creator.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-03-07 12:55:04
Nicely put, Menrov. You're right. As content (and even happy) as the brothers and sisters may feel within the confines of JW discipleship, in the long run it will be damaging to their soul. I'm reminded of Jesus words about Pharisee discipleship:
“Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves.” (Mt 23:15)