[From ws12/16 p. 9 January 2-8]
The three “theme questions” for this study are:
- What convinces you that Jehovah is the incomparable Organizer?
- Why is it reasonable to conclude that Jehovah’s worshippers would be organized?
- How does the counsel in God’s Word help us to maintain cleanness, peace, and unity?
Admittedly, if Jehovah wants to organize something, being God Almighty and all, he will do so in an incomparable manner. Does that make him “the incomparable Organizer”? Is that a title he wants us to apply to Him? To what end?
Capitalizing “Organizer” makes it into a proper noun. Surely if Jehovah wanted to be known for his organizational prowess, he would have spoken of it in the Bible. He describes himself in many ways in the Holy Scriptures, but never once does he call himself the Organizer. Imagine if the first of the Ten Commandments were worded this way:
“I am Jehovah your Organizer, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You must not have any other organizers besides me.” (Ex 20:2, 3)
As revealed by these three questions, the purpose of this article is to get us to accept that everything Jehovah does requires an incomparable degree of organization. With that idea in place, the publishers will lead us to conclude that only an organization can worship Jehovah the way he wants. Organization then becomes the identifying mark of true Christians; or to paraphrase John 13:35: ‘By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you are organized among yourselves.’
The Bible doesn’t use the word “organization” nor does it speak of the need to be organized to gain God’s favor, so the writer has a significant task before him. How to prove the importance of organization? To do so, he turns, in paragraphs 3 thru 5 to astronomy. Does the universe reveal a clockwork-like organization? We see evidence of colliding galaxies and stars so massive they collapse upon themselves and then explode, leaving a spinning black hole in their place from which nothing can escape. Our own solar system is thought to have formed by random collisions of stellar debris. Some of this debris still exists in the asteroid belt and at the fringes of the Solar System in what is called the Oort cloud. There is a danger of comets from the cloud and asteroids from the belt impacting on Earth. Scientists believe that one such collision ended the reign of the dinosaurs. This hardly speaks of meticulous organization. Could it be that Jehovah likes to start things going and then see how they turn out? Or is there wisdom beyond our understanding behind it all?[i]
The Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses would have us believe that Jehovah is the great Clockmaker; that everything he does reflects meticulous organization and that there is no randomness in the universe. Such a view is not consistent with the evidence of scientific observation, nor is it supported in Holy Scripture. Life is far more interesting than JW.org would have us believe.
However, the publishers are depending on our blind acceptance of this first premise so that they can lead us to the ultimate conclusion that we need to be organized to get the job done. This is not to suggest that being organized is a bad thing necessarily, but then the question arises, who is actually doing the organizing?
Organized by God?
We do not want to bury the lead, so let us state what any regular Watchtower reader already knows. When the publications, videos, and broadcasts of JW.org speak of God’s Organization, they mean the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, to the critical mind, it is unfair to call them God’s Organization until that has been proven to be the case. Therefore, to avoid skewing anyone’s perception, from here on in we will substitute any reference made in the article to God’s Organization with the short form, JW.org.
Surely, then, we should expect that Jehovah wants his worshippers to be well-organized. In fact, to that end God has provided the Bible for our guidance. Living without the help of [JW.org] and his standards would result in unhappiness and misery. – par. 6
We are certainly getting our exercise jumping to conclusions here. First, we assume that Jehovah wants us to be well-organized. Next, we are told that the reason God gave us the Bible is to guide us to be better organized. (Are we to assume that if we follow the precepts of the Bible regarding morality, love, faith and hope, but are not well-organized, Jehovah will be displeased?) Finally, we are to assume that the Bible is not enough. If we live without the help of JW.org, we’ll be miserable and unhappy.
The help they are speaking of includes their interpretation of the Bible. For instance:
The Bible is no mere collection of unrelated Jewish and Christian literature. Rather, it is a well-organized book—a divinely inspired masterpiece. The individual books of the Bible are interconnected. Interwoven from Genesis to Revelation is the Bible’s central theme—the vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty and the fulfillment of his purpose for the earth by means of his Kingdom under Christ, the promised “offspring.”—Read Genesis 3:15; Matthew 6:10; Revelation 11:15. – par. 7
JW.org is telling us that the Bible’s central theme is the “vindication of Jehovah’s sovereignty”. Do a word search in the WT Library program using “vindication” and “sovereignty”.[ii] You may be surprised to learn that the Bible never uses the terms as the Watchtower states.[iii] If the theme of the Bible is not what JW.org states, then what is the Bible’s theme? If we are being guided away from the real purpose of the Bible, are we not more likely to end up ‘unhappy and miserable’.
JW.org—a Judeo-Christian Organization
To support the contention that we need JW.org to organize us, Israel is again put forward as the model for the modern Christian congregation.
The people of ancient Israel were a model of organization. Under the Mosaic Law, for example, there were “women who were organized to serve at the entrance of the tent of meeting.” (Ex. 38:8) The moving of the Israelite camp and the tabernacle took place in an orderly way. Later, King David organized the Levites and the priests into effective divisions. (1 Chron. 23:1-6; 24:1-3) And when they obeyed Jehovah, the Israelites were blessed with order, peace, and unity.—Deut. 11:26, 27; 28:1-14. – par. 8
Sure they were organized when God was marching millions across a hostile desert wasteland and into Canaan. Jehovah is quite capable of organizing things when there is a purpose to be accomplished that requires organization. However, once they settled in the Promised Land, that level of organization vanished. In fact, it was the reintroduction of organization under a central human authority that ruined everything.
“In those days, there was no king in Israel. Each one was doing what was right in his own eyes.” (Jg 17:6)
This hardly speaks of organization under a central authority. Why not use this model for the modern Christian congregation instead of the failed model that resulted from the Israelites’ misguided desire to have a human king rule over them?
Was There a First Century Governing Body?
Paragraphs 9 and 10 try to lay the groundwork for the modern-day Governing Body by claiming that a first century counterpart existed. This is not true. Yes, on one occasion, the apostles and older men in Jerusalem issued direction to all the congregations of the day, but that was only because they (men from their midst) were the cause of the problem in the first place. So it fell to them to fix it. However, there is no evidence that they directed all the congregations all the time throughout the ancient world. In fact, quite the opposite is the case. For instance, who came up with the name “Christian”? It originated with a non-Jewish congregation in Antioch. (Acts 11:26) Nor did they dispatch Paul and his companions on the three missionary journeys chronicled in the Book of Acts. Those journeys were commissioned and funded by the Antioch congregation.[iv]
Do You Follow Direction?
“Following direction” seems so innocuous. In fact, it is a euphemism within the community of JW.org for “obey unconditionally”. What is expected is quick and unquestioning obedience to the dictates of the men at the head of the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
What should members of Branch Committees or Country Committees, circuit overseers, and congregation elders do when they receive direction from [JW.org] today? Jehovah’s own Book directs all of us to be obedient and submissive. (Deut. 30:16; Heb. 13:7, 17) A critical or rebellious spirit has no place in [JW.org], for such an attitude could disrupt our loving, peaceful, and united congregations. Of course, no loyal Christian would want to display a disrespectful and disloyal spirit like that of Diotrephes. (Read 3 John 9, 10.) We might well ask ourselves: ‘Do I contribute to the spirituality of those around me? Am I quick to accept and support the direction given by the brothers taking the lead?’ – par. 11
Based on the first two sentences of paragraph 11, we are to conclude that the Bible directs branch committees, circuit overseers, and local elders to be obedient and submissive to the Governing Body of JW.org. Two scriptures are cited as proof.
Deuteronomy 30:16 speaks of the commandments of Jehovah, not “commands of men” or “direction” from JW.org. As for Hebrews 13:17, it does not require unconditional obedience to the dictates of men. The Greek word, peithó, used there actually means “to persuade, to have confidence”, not “to obey”. When the Bible speaks of obeying God like it does at Acts 5:29, it uses a different Greek word.[v] What is the basis for being persuaded to follow the direction of the elders, circuit overseer, or Governing Body? Is it not God’s inspired Word? And if their direction goes contrary to that inspired Word, then whom shall we obey?
As for comparing anyone who doesn’t readily accept the direction of the Governing Body with Diotrephes, we must remember that it was the Apostle John whom this fellow was resisting. It seems we are comparing an Apostle directly appointed by our Lord with the self-appointed men of the Governing Body.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have long resisted and criticized the Pope and other Church leaders. Yet they would not consider their own position as equivalent to that of Diotrephes. So what is the criteria for claiming someone is a modern-day Diotrephes? When is it okay to disobey a church authority? And can that same criteria be applied to any direction being handed down from the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Who Appointed Timothy?
To illustrate the need for unconditional support in compliance with the instructions from the Governing Body, the following example is given:
Consider a recent decision made by the Governing Body. “Questions From Readers” in The Watchtower of November 15, 2014, outlined an adjustment in how elders and ministerial servants are appointed. The article noted that the first-century governing body authorized traveling overseers to make such appointments. In line with that pattern, since September 1, 2014, circuit overseers have been appointing elders and ministerial servants. – par. 12
The authority for this change is taken ostensibly from the pattern set in the first century. Of course, as is increasingly the case, no scriptural references are given to support this statement. Did the older men and apostles in Jerusalem – what the current Governing Body claims was the first century governing body – actually authorize traveling overseers to make such appointments? Timothy is used as such an example based on the Scriptures cited in this paragraph. Who authorized Timothy to appoint elders in the congregations he visited?
“This instruction I entrust to you, my child Timothy, in harmony with the prophecies that were made about you, that by these you may go on waging the fine warfare,” (1Ti 1:18)
“Do not neglect the gift in you that was given you through a prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you.” (1Ti 4:14)
“For this reason I remind you to stir up like a fire the gift of God that is in you through the laying of my hands on you.” (2Ti 1:6)
Timothy was from Lystra, not Jerusalem. From the foregoing, it is evident that the apostle Paul and the local elders saw the gifts of the Spirit operating in Timothy. That, combined with the predictions made about him through the Spirit, prompted them to lay their hands on him to authorize him for the work ahead. We might argue that since Paul was there, the so-called governing body of Jerusalem was involved, but the Scriptures show us otherwise.
“Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation: Barʹna·bas, Symʹe·on who was called Niʹger, Lucius of Cy·reʹne, Manʹa·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. 2 As they were ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Set aside for me Barʹna·bas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then after fasting and praying, they laid their hands on them and sent them off.” (Ac 13:1-3)
The appointment and authorization Saul (Paul) had to go on his missionary trips came not from Jerusalem, but from Antioch. Are we now to assume that the congregation in Antioch was the first century governing body? Hardly. The Scriptures plainly show that all such appointments were made by holy spirit and not by some centralized committee, nor by representatives sent out by said committee.
Being Persuaded by Those Taking the Lead (He 13:17)
Now here’s some advice from The Watchtower that we really should follow.
We need to follow the Bible-based direction we receive from the elders. These loyal shepherds within [JW.org] are guided by “wholesome,” or “healthful; beneficial,” instruction found in God’s own Book. (1 Tim. 6:3; ftn.) – par. 13
If the instruction is Bible-based, then by all means we should follow it, no matter what the source. (Mt 23:2, 3) However, based on 1 Timothy 6:3, we are not to obey when the counsel is not Bible-based, not wholesome, healthful, nor beneficial.
“If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.” (1Ti 6:3-5)
So in such cases, we are most emphatically not to obey them. A practical example of this is to be found in the very next paragraph.
Paul directed the elders to hand the immoral man over to Satan—in other words, to disfellowship him. To preserve the congregation’s purity, the elders needed to clear out the “leaven.” (1 Cor. 5:1, 5-7, 12) When we support the elders’ decision to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer, we help to maintain the cleanness of the congregation and perhaps move the person to repent and seek Jehovah’s forgiveness. – par. 14
Paul wrote his letters to the congregations, not just privately to the elders. (Col 4:16) His words were directed to all the brothers and sisters of the Corinthian congregation. If we read both the exhortation to “remove the wicked man from among yourselves” and the subsequent appeal to the majority to forgive, we see clearly that he is addressing the congregation, not just the elders. (1Co 5:13; 2Co 2:6, 7) Today, the elders disfellowship in secrecy and no one is to know what the sin was nor why the individual was disfellowshipped. This goes contrary to the clear instruction of Jesus at Matthew 18:15-17.[vi] So following the counsel of 1 Timothy 6:3-5, we should not obey the direction given in paragraph 14.
Missing the Mark
Paragraph 15 makes an appeal for unity when contentious legal matters arise by citing 1 Corinthians 6:1-8. This is good advice, but it loses much of its strength due to the misguided JW.org teaching of the Other Sheep. Why is this so? Because the Other Sheep—according to JW.org—will not “judge angels”, which belief undermines Paul’s reasoning at 1 Corinthians 6:3.[vii]
Unity vs. Love
Paragraph 16 makes an appeal for unity. Love creates unity as a natural by-product, but unity can exist without love. The devil and his demons are united. (Mt 12:26) Unity without love has no value for Christians. What JW.org means when it speaks of unity is really conformity. Conforming to the dictates of the Governing Body, local Branch office, circuit overseers, and local elders does provide a form of unity, but is it the type that Jehovah God blesses?
Judicial Matters Mishandled
Paragraph 17 seems to be giving us sound, Bible-based advice.
If unity and cleanness are to be maintained in a congregation, the elders must care for judicial matters promptly and in a loving way. – par. 17
Anyone scanning the internet looking for topics and news items related to Jehovah’s Witnesses is sure to find that the way we handle judicial matters does not promote unity nor cleanness. In fact, it has become one of the most contentious and damaging policies the Organization is facing at the present time. It is important to keep the congregation clean, but if we deviate from the procedures and practices laid down by our Lord Jesus, we are sure to get into trouble and bring reproach on his name and that of our heavenly Father. One of the most notorious and damning features of our judicial system is the practice of disfellowshipping those who leave of their own accord. (A process we euphemistically call “disassociation”.) At times, this has caused us to shun the little ones, such as victims of child abuse who have left because of disillusionment at the mishandling of their cases. (Mt 18:6)
As paragraph 17 shows, we know what the Bible directs us to do, but we do not do it.
Second Corinthians, written some months later, shows that progress was made because the elders had applied the apostle’s direction. – par. 17
“Some months later”, Paul told them to restore the man to the congregation. While admitting that the only Bible example of “reinstatement” occurred just “some months” after the “disfellowshipping”, there is no counsel for elders to follow this example. The de facto standard is a minimum sentence of one year. I have seen elders questioned by the Service Desk and the Circuit Overseer when they failed to follow this “oral law” by reinstating someone in under 12 months. This unwritten rule is reinforced in various ways. For instance, at this year’s regional convention, we were treated to a video of a sister who was disfellowshipped for fornication. After 15 years, while no longer committing a disfellowshipping offence, she applied to return to the congregation. Was the reinstated right away? No! He had to wait a full year to get back in.
‘We honor God with our words, but our hearts are far removed from Him.’ (Mark 7:6)
What Is Really Important
In a congregation headed by Jesus Christ, what is really important is love. (John 13:34, 35; 1Co 13:1-8) However, in an organization run by men, what is really important is obedience, compliance, and conformity. What matters is getting the job done. (Mt 23:15)
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[i] To illustrate that laws and organization are not synonymous terms, consider Conway’s Game of Life. (You can play it here.) This computer game from the days of large mainframes is based on only four simple rules. Yet those rules can produce endless results depending on the starting elements of the game. Patterns emerge—some highly structured, others wildly chaotic—all based on the same four rules. This is what we observe in the physical universe. Highly structured physical laws producing a seemingly endless variety of results.
[ii] Typing (sans quotes) “vindicat*” and “sovereign*” will bring up a broader list.
[iii] For more on this topic, see the articles Vindicating Jehovah’s Sovereignty and Why Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Preach the Vindication of Jehovah’s Sovereignty?
[iv] For a discussion on whether or not there was a governing body over the first century Christian congregation, see A First Century Governing Body – Examining the Scriptural Basis
[v] For a fuller understanding of the meaning of Hebrews 13:17, see the article, To Obey or Not to Obey—That Is the Question.
[vi] For a detailed analysis showing how the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses misapplies the Scriptures in handling judicial matters, see the article, Matthew 18 Revisited, or read the whole series starting at Exercising Justice.
[vii] For scriptural proof that the JW teaching involving the Other Sheep is false, see Adopted! and Going Beyond What Is Written.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Johnsc11 on 2017-01-01 18:08:58
I've been waiting for this one. Thank you ?
Reply by katrina on 2017-01-09 08:23:02
Great article, really appreciated your input here so very true your comments.
Comment by kyaecker on 2017-01-07 19:44:15
Meleti. Thank you for your comments on the article. As always enlightening. As I'm reading over this study, paragraph 2 seems to suggest that the first century Christians were following the direction and preaching from the scriptures. I thought they were Preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ? Then they go on to say "like them, we let the Bible guide us today, (except when doctrine trumps scripture) and we obey the instructions we receive from God’s organization." Did God have an organization in the first century? There is nothing in scripture supporting this. Paragraph 6 goes on to support the CT Russell mandate "Only by following the guidance he gives us by means of the Bible and his Organization will we be able to live a happy and satisfying life." Or survive into the new world, or please Jehovah at all, or understand scripture, yada yada yada. Nothing new here. Too much emphasis on the big O. I Don't think this will change anytime soon.
Comment by Colette on 2017-01-01 21:54:36
Thanks for the article Meleti. And thank you for the point that the universe is not overly regimented, that it could be that Our Heavenly Father puts things in motion and sees how they turn out.
This could explain why the last days is continuing so long after Jesus' death. Jesus has died for us and things are in place, but perhaps the end of this system depends on how and when things turn out, not on a pre-determined time table. Even the first destruction of Jerusalem could have been different if the Jews had obeyed the prophets' exhortations.
What use is free will if the outcome is inevitable?Reply by tyhik on 2017-01-02 10:52:48
Comparing universe with clocks is not a good comparison. In classical mechanics there is a well known so called three-body problem. Three gravitationally interacting objects (stars) with proper masses and initial velocities end up moving chaotically. See a computer simulation.
As there are phenomena like deterministic chaos and true randomness, I've always thought that God does not and cannot "see" the future to its finest details. Sure he can predict a lot from His knowledge, but not everything. This explains the Bible stories like God sometimes reconsidering His decisions (Jonah 3:10). Therefore I also agree with you that the end will come when there are certain conditions and not at a predetermined spot on time axis.Reply by amoreomeara on 2017-01-03 07:37:55
Hi tyhik,
I disagree that God cannot see the future to its finest detail. The way I understand it is that God exists outside of time itself.
So he can "see" its finest details because he is already there, and here and in the past, all at once.
God sometimes reconsiders his decisions, not because he can't tell what will really happen, but because he is merciful.
Jonah didn't want to go to Ninevah because he knew that the fact that God had him sent to warn the Ninevans (?) meant that he was ready and willing to show compassion to them and that Jonah's so called prophecy would turn out to be incorrect if they put their faith in Gods message and then repented as instructed.
Presumably it was the fact that God knew full well that they would repent that caused him to send Jonah in the first place? :-)
There are other scriptures that point to God being outside of time, I can look for more references if anyone is interested.
There is a discussion here about it: http://www.discussthetruth.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2004&start=10
:-)Reply by Colette on 2017-01-03 09:02:13
Dear Amoremeara, please do share your other scriptures.
Reply by amoreomeara on 2017-01-04 07:41:46
Hi Colette,
I'll have to share a bit at a time (I'm supposed to be doing my uni work! ;-) ).
I realise that there is no black an white evidence as such, just pointers IMO, that God exists outside of time, as well as relating to us within time. It is very clear that God does not respond to time in the same way as us.
The main ones for me are: Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38 and Matthew 22:32 which are all the same account.
Whilst discussing ressurection Jesus says "For (Moses) calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”
Some use this as proof that they have already been resurrected, but then I find it confusing why the righteous dead would be called out of the memorial tombs to meet Jesus's in the air if they had already been raised?
If this is not the case then God must be with them when they ARE alive, perhaps before they died AND after they have been resurected?
:-)
Reply by tyhik on 2017-01-04 18:15:45
Hi amoreomeara.
I agree that God exists outside our time, because he created it together with our universe. However, it is just a pure speculation that being outside of our time, He can freely take a look at any time axis point of us He wishes.
Bible is clear that even the spirit world has some notion of time. At least something time-like, in which there are events and there are notions of "before" and "after" the event. In addition, many of the spirit world events are definitely related to our universe's time, like glorified Jesus taking seat in Farther's right hand, Satan thrown out of heaven (Rev 12:12) and the destruction of Satan.
Regarding Jonah 3:10, various translations say God repented, relented, or reconsidered. All of which mean God changed His mind. In Gen 6:6, various translations say God repented, regretted, or was sorry that He had made man on the earth. God changing His mind as a result of events in our universe shows God's time is somehow parallel or related to our time and it tells me God cannot peek into our future. Which makes so much sense regarding the man's free will and Jesus dying really for everybody.
Comment by Danish Dynamite on 2017-01-01 23:26:45
There was no need for a centralized government because the nation of Israel was actually a single family. It was "organized" along family lines. In Israel, elders and "chieftains over hundreds and thousands" were not elected by popular vote nor appointed by God. They were relatives of the people they represented. Each tribe was a family group, descended from a common ancestor and closely related by blood.
They did not set up any human form of government or administrative body. Under the Law, the Israelites were to be guided by personal conscience rather than human rulers who enforced governmental power through police or other armed forces. Each individual was responsible for his own behavior before God, his family and the community. This was a theocratic form of government in its truest sense: God himself acted in place of any earthly king.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-02 10:01:43
Well said, Bjorn. You've hit on the real relationship we should all be seeking with God, that of being family.
Reply by Danish Dynamite on 2017-01-02 10:43:25
Thx Meleti,
I really appreciate this article since this is one out of many questions I have been struggling with lately. Does Jah make use of an organization? Love is supposed to be the glue, Love is the benchmark of christian living, because love cover a multitude of sin (and misunderstandings) I have always thought the unity i saw among JW was clear evidence of Jahs holy spirit and his blessing upon an organization. I do feel love among JW, i do see beautiful qualities among JW(some of the best people i know) but is it love that unites us as an organization. well if i expressed doubts or skepticism regarding a certain teaching such as "this generation" will the unity i feel continue to flourish forme personally? I highly doubt it. No matter how much evidence may be supplied, no matter how much Scriptural testimony may be presented, no matter how much logic may be brought to bear, these may all be rejected and discarded by those who place a particular human religious authority as their guide, as the determiner of truth. with the vast majority of JW all such evidence and Scriptural testimony will be rejected before it is even heard—because authority has decreed for them that they should reject it. Those under the authority are thus robbed of the freedom to decide for themselves whether the information is factual or false, beneficial or detrimental.
I sadly have to conclude, that to me is conformity.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-02 13:17:19
So true, Bjorn. You remind me of a quote I came across a few years back:
“Authority is the greatest and most irreconcilable enemy to truth and argument that this world ever furnished. All the sophistry—all the color of plausibility—the artifice and cunning of the subtlest disputer in the world may be laid open and turned to the advantage of that very truth which they are designed to hide; but against authority there is no defence.” (18th Century Scholar Bishop Benjamin Hoadley)
Comment by Danish Dynamite on 2017-01-01 23:32:52
Jesus had told his disciples before his death that he would send a helper or counselor that would take his place on earth after he returned to heaven: "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth ... You know him, for he lives with you and will be in you" (John 14:16-17 NIV). Speaking later of the work of the holy spirit, Jesus continued: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you" (John 16:13-15 NIV).
Was the holy spirit simply to work during a short interval, a generation or so after the start of the Christian congregation, until Jesus could organize the newly formed congregation to take over the duties of the holy spirit, that is, feeding the disciples, "guiding them into all the truth," and speaking on Jesus' behalf? No. Jesus said that the spirit would be with them "forever," needing no replacement. Because Jesus would be in constant contact with his disciples after his resurrection through the holy spirit, there was no reason for him to encourage them to expect the development of any centralized group of human representatives for guidance or direction. Jesus had not indicated otherwise when he said: " .. where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them" - Matthew 18:20.
Comment by Fili us on 2017-01-02 11:12:42
It's interesting the Watchtower slipped in the bit about who makes the current appointments. I've been dying to get this out. One of our outgoing CO's (close to seventy years) before an Elders meeting stated in passing that "the new arrangement was put in place to protect the governing body from prosecution of a faulty Elders actions and that "they" the CO's would now have to be worried about being pursued instead. At the time (before the Royal Commission that is) he was also happy to state that the authorities were able to only achieve getting a Branch Member under oath as opposed to a GB member. Hearing all of that hit me hard. We can't pick our persecution, obviously the GB thinks they can pick theirs. If they really feel they are spirit anointed why not let their father protect them and clear their names if they truly don't have blood on their hands.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-02 13:19:59
Welcome Fili us and thank you for this insightful comment.
Comment by tyhik on 2017-01-02 11:35:36
Meleti, thanks for the great dissection. I particularly liked the "Who appointed Timothy" section. But there's a lot of interesting stuff this week.
Comment by LVReyes on 2017-01-02 16:38:58
And yet there is indeed, already a true organization when we consider the illustrations of Jesus being the head and believers in him being joined to him through faith to become and thrive as parts, organs in the rest of the body.
Another good illustration is that of a tree. We are branches of the tree, But this tree or body is gathered together into the Christ as a congregation of believers.
Comment by lazarus on 2017-01-02 18:07:02
Thanks Meleti, well reasoned there's a lot to meditate on.
It doesn't surprise me that this line of reasoning is employed, to convince us God Has a earthly Organisation, it's nothing new. The Logic: God is a god of Order, eg Universe, Israel or patriarchs Acts 15. You make solid points on all these points, against this idea.
The word Organisation doesn't exist in scripture, neither does the word Trinity, we like to use that line of reasoning in the ministry. I remember a talk at a convention regarding why Jehovah purposes things and not fixed on planning things. Basically its because a plan is not flexible we're in a purpose he is totally flexible eg Gen 3:15.
Wt 10 april para 2: When it comes to carrying out his will, Jehovah has, not a fixed plan, but an unfolding purpose. (Eph. 3:11) "
Man Plans and controls others why, because they don't have the foresight , power , wisdom, justice and love that God has. Their limited in these areas, and so they need rules and laws to govern people much like the GB does.
For eg: In 1 Samuel 8:19-22. Israel wanted a king to make them like other nations. Despite God’s warnings, God gave them a king! So it wasnt Jehovah who wanted a King. So in fact, Israel is a bad eg of a Govt. How were they bad? Well, the leaders lled them into apostasy, and we're hopeless. Even when God tried to reach out to the leaders of Israel with prophets, they persecuted them. Well, theY may be following a similar path as the leaders of Israel, which is worrisome to many of our friends. Maybe it is history repeating itself today.
You read the book of Acts, what is amazing is the Acts of the Apostles shows that the holy spirit worked independently of any earthly body and not through one.
I searched the Insight Books for a scriptural discussion on Organisation. Well to my surprise, they don't have a Subject on Organisation. This is damning against the Watchtower really.
Comment by THE DRIFTER on 2017-01-02 21:29:51
I sure do like the way you break it down!
--
A couple of months ago I was asked what my idea of paradise was. I said no elders/servants/overseers.
After an awkward moment I said that if we couldn't apply the law that was going to be written in our hearts then we would simply be vaporized. No Kings needed!
If the Watchtower can speculate, ...
Comment by stephen on 2017-01-03 00:19:35
Quote; Living without the help of [JW.org] and his standards would result in unhappiness and misery. – par. 6
Haha-that says it all.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-01-03 16:31:00
Meliti, I expected you would dissect this one very well, and you have. It is not the fact of disfellowshipping that is the problem, it is the way it is handled. Whether results or cases should be presented before the whole congregation is a matter of debate (does everyone need to know all the facts ?), but the whole process is flawed. As you point out, the Corinthian man was re-instated quickly, when he had turned around and stopped sinning. 2 John 9 and 10 are then taken right out of context and applied to all disfellowshipped persons, when it is obvious that it only refers to apostates trying to weedle their way in to some unsuspecting minds. If judicial matters were handled in a loving way and according to scripture, this aspect would not give JWs such a bad name. It is the main reason why I felt obliged to come off the BOE, though now there are probably quite a few other reasons.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-01-05 03:44:46
Meliti, regarding comments on paragraph 11. The reader may wish to check out "JW vow of obedience and poverty" on the internet. If your search engine is Google, I would recommend you select JW News and archive, which simply displays the document.
From my understanding, those mentioned in paragraph 11 have probably signed up to this, except congregational elders, most of whom will probably never have heard of it. An intriguing document. It helped me to understand why there is so much emphasis, on "trusting that this is God's organisation", and such like. Please read and draw your own conclusions. I would be interested to hear your comments.
Comment by Kyp on 2017-01-05 11:56:08
Dear Meleti,
Thank you so much for this balanced article which reflects my personal view on the Wachtower article, too. I am working on a German translation which I will link to your original one here. I think it will help many thinking, Bible grounded Jehovah's Witnesses to take a closer look at "what the Bible really really teaches".
KypReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-05 19:31:05
Thank you Kyp. I'm pleased that you're taking the time to translate the article. We are working on a German version of Beroean Pickets and looking for those who could help out with translation. If you're interested, please email me at meleti.vivlon@gmail.com
Comment by Enoch on 2017-01-07 21:47:31
Howdy Folks. First time poster. :-)
I just returned from the meeting discussing this article and without wanting to sound alarmist, this is serious stuff!
Some comments from the audience that were endorsed by the Elders during the study
1. " A personal relationship with God is absolutely necessary but it's only possible to have this relationship by obeying the Organization and Governing Body."
2. " Worldy Armies are highly organized and regulated for a reason. By being so highly regulated they are able to achieve their mission. " Hence the Organization of Jehovah's people.
3. " As an Elder ( not me...direct quote) I have never ever disfellowshipped someone for slander or fraud". The Elder's point being that most accounts of slander are dismissed and that it is normally people not following the Organization's direction that is the result of these cases coming before the Elders.
Before I address the above mentioned 3 points I would like to say that Jesus never got a mention during the discussion. Surely if all authority has been placed in him then his role should of been central to the discussion but he was completely missing . This only confirms my grave fear that the Organization has taken the place of Jesus as mediator in the minds of most members. I write this paragraph with a profound sense of concern and a sad heart. (Phillipians 2:9 ;Matt 28:18 ; Ephesians 2 :8-10 ; 1 Cor 2:2 ; Matt 18:20 )
There is no ambiguity in scripture about what happens when humans try and establish their own form of righteousness. The Pharisees did so in Jesus day claiming authority as the teachers and instructors of God. Some of these men converted to Christianity and tried to destroy the freedom/liberty of Christians by establishing their own highly regulated form of the Gospel. The Apostle Paul resisted this type of forced regulation/organization with all of his might to the extent that he said in Galatians that these men should be "accursed". (Galatians 1:9)
It's interesting that many of the organizations in Christendom have a form of bureaucracy in order to manage Church affairs. Lutherans, Baptists, Pentecostals etc all have some form of Church policy and legislation but none of this ends up as part of their worship. You will never hear members of these groups giving praise and adulation to the organizational arm of their particular version of the Christian faith. The administration of the Church stays well out of the way of their form of worship. Otherwise wouldn't they end up like the Christians of 1st Corintians chapter one and start giving attention to the people rather then to God and Christ?
If one day is to Jehovah as a thousand years then it is only 2 days ago that his son came to earth and was taunted, mutilated and ultimately murdered as a condemned blasphemer. How would Jehovah feel just " 2days" after the sacrifice of his son when a group of Christians come together and give glory to bureaucracy over our Saviour, King and redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ? Today at the meeting I heard a group of people proclaim with staunch conviction that Salvation is through Organization and make no reference to Jesus. I am not engaging in Hyperbole when I say that those the views expressed at today's meeting have left me empty, confused and more lost then ever.
In response to the first 3 points I mentioned at the outset...
1. If personal salvation was not possbile without Organization then which Earthly Organization were the Trinitarian martyrs being loyal to when they were cast to the flames for preaching and publishing the Bible? Which Earthly Organization was Charles Taze Russell being loyal to when he and the bible students gathered to unearth the core doctrines that Jehovah's Witnesses still cherish in 2017?
2. The fact that Worldly armies were used as an example of how Jehovah's People should be as practicing Christians acknowledged the position that Jehovah's witnesses are about Forced Conformity rather then Christian Unity. This view flies in direct opposition to our Lord Jesus Christ who counselled us " You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men weild authority over them. This is not the way among you." Matt 20: 25,26
3. An Elder said off the platform that noone ever gets disfellowshipped for slander or fraud. Out of his own mouth he shows that the Organization can't possibly be a Spiritual Paradise being directed and cleansed by disfellowshipping procedures as he would have us believe that noone in the Organization is committing unrepentant Slander or fraud. Jehovah isn't removing liars from the congregation only the sexually immoral?????
On this point some oneness Pentecostals threw this reasoning at me in 2011. They said " If Judicial Committees are the work of Jehovah and your Organization is a spiritual paradise, then can you tell me how many people are removed for malicious gossip? How many are removed for slander? How many are removed for greed and materialism? How many are removed for tax avoidance and fraud? Or are you telling me that God only acts on sexual immorality to keep his organization clean?"
I could not dispute their point. For every one JW that confesses something to the Elders there are another 5 that don't. I've been in congregations where Elders were materialistic , greedy and fraudulent. These men were never handled but they had the luxury of Disfellowshipping their brothers for immorality and other such sins of the "flesh". Apparently the spiritual paradise turns a blind eye to fraud, greed, character assassination and slander? Hmmmmmmm. Is that what the New World is going to be like? An Authoritarian utopia where only obvious sins of the flesh are rejected but greed, lies and status can flourish? Nice reasoning brothers. I'm hooked!! :-) :-)
Salvation equals organization? Lets just drop Jesus and go back to the Mosaic Law. Fancy God's son going through all that sacrifice for nothing????Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-08 10:05:19
Welcome Enoch! Thank you for an excellent comment and some more insight into the thinking of our brothers in the Organization.
I served as an elder for 40 years in both English and Spanish congregation in three different countries and I can attest to the truth of what you are saying. I've never known anyone who was disfellowshipped for fraud, greed, or lying. I have actually known of cases where the evidence for fraud was overwhelming--sufficient to go to the police--and yet nothing was done about it in the congregation. Now, I'm not saying that never has anyone been disfellowshipped for any of these sins, but given the fact that these sins are every bit as prevalent as sexual immorality, and that I can't think of a single case where they were tried, I think you point about our so-called spiritual paradise is well made.
The first case of disfellowshipping was for lying, and since it involved the dispensation of monetary funds, it is a case of fraud as well. Ananias and Sapphira experienced the ultimate form of disfellowshipping. (Acts 5:1-11) That shows how seriously Jesus views the sins that the Organization all but ignores.Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-08 20:29:55
Howdy Meletti. Thanks for the warm welcome! I have only just discovered your site so I'm still getting to know the "vibe" but it feels like the right place to be.
I am currently not a member of the Org (disassoc) but I attend the meetings and am in agreement with your outline of beliefs mentioned in "What we believe". The "other sheep" teaching is something that has concerned me for the last 10 years but I still find it hard to think that Jesus would want someone like me in Heaven. At least with the Earthly hope you have the false sense of security that the standard for salvation will be somewhat less then what is required of the anointed. But if you read the bible with no pre-conceived bias then the Apostle Paul makes frequent references to the enmity between Jews and Gentiles being removed and the two becoming one. I could write for ages on this but back to topic!!
The issue of honesty and lying is something the Organization seem to be in denial about. You cite an excellent example with Anninias and Sapphira. The whole reason we are in this gigantic mess is because of the Master Liar, Satan. Of the 7 seven things that Jehovah hates , most of them can be connected to lies and dishonesty....
Pro 6:16 There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood;
Pro 6:18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren
I know of many brothers in responsible positions who covered up serious sins including Adultery and their life has flourished in the Organization.In fact without intending to do so , some of our Organizational policies help create a culture of lying as we quite often sugar coat mistakes to make us look better in the eyes of the world.
Also because many brothers have lost confidence in the Elders and the Judicial arrangement they will wilfully lie to escape the process. Or they simply can't bare the thought of being shunned.
Some people under pressure to meet hour requirements will engage in dishonesty. I've been with brothers who deliberately waste time in the field just to "get me time in". It's not lying per se but it's definitely dishonest. Examples of this would be deliberately doing rural return visits that they know are not home or taking hour long coffee breaks and counting it as time. They also will approach a door in town with no other intent but to start their time. Even if the person is chatty they will cut the call short and then drive an hour out of town into the rurals.
I was in a car with some brothers who did this. They got out of the car in the morning and did a "quick door" so they could count the hour drive to the territory. At 5pm on arrival back in town they did another "quick door" so they could count the hour drive home. When we were counting our time at the end these mature age pioneers counted 8 hours and told me I could only count 6. I was side by side with them the whole day!! Who are they kidding?
I have received counsel for being "too honest". I was disfellowshipped along time ago and an Elder rang me up to give me instruction on how to get reinstated. Part of that was how to dodge telling the truth. When i said that "lying to be in the truth" is non sensical he reacted with a laugh and told me the brothers are imperfect so you simply can't be too honest with them. He tried to make it sound like discretion is not lying but make no mistake he was directly telling me that if I was honest I would never get reinstated.
The most frustrating thing with the whole topic of "organization"is that as a group we go out of the way to shoot ourselves in the foot. There are so many needless harms being done to the sheep and most of it can put down to not allowing the individual witness the right to his own liberty and conscience in front of Christ and Jehovah. The Organization has the luxury of talking out of both sides of its mouth. When they get something right it was because Jehovah and Jesus are speaking through the Governing Body. When they clearly get something wrong its due to imperfection. It's like flipping a double sided coin.....heads every time!!
6 weeks ago at the meeting the Elder reading the Watchtower made this remark..." Have you ever read an article in the Awake magazine and it fits perfectly with something that happened in the News? These articles are prepared 2 years in advance!! This is no coincidence! Jehovah foresaw the event and the brothers prepared the article 2 years before it happened."
The congregation was oohing an aaahhhing in agreement and I was sitting there thinking " Can you hear what you are saying? You are saying the Awake is prophetically predicting world events two years in advance with Jehovah's knowledge of the future." Again, there is no need at all for this type of reasoning and it is potentially harmful if it is repeated to non believers.
"Borean Pickets" must take a fair bit of Organization to keep things running but noone is coming on here singing "All hail Borean Pickets". Brothers and sisters express gratitude for the site but they aren't spending hours and hours waxing lyrical about Google, Technology and Melitti. :-) :-)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-09 09:40:42
>>Brothers and sisters express gratitude for the site but they aren’t spending hours and hours waxing lyrical about Google, Technology and Melitti.
If they did, I'd have to close it down. :)Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-09 16:12:30
So my plan to get the members to band together and buy you a 10 room mansion in San Diego with a a couple of swanky cars is a no goer? :-)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-09 17:42:19
Hmm, might work, but we'd have to make it seem like it wasn't for me. I'd just be taking care of it until the real owner showed up. So we could put the ownership in the name of, oh, I don't know, King David maybe? Do you think people would buy that?
Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-09 19:28:36
Yes excellent strategy. And for further credibility perhaps contact the media and list the property as hard Physical evidence that there are people on earth who understand bible prophecy. That way you will create a public image that is both faithful and discreet. You could hire other members of this discussion group as staff so we could also travel backwards and forwards and enjoy the sunny Californian winters. 1 Cor 4:8
Just don't seek to be buried on the plot. The non believers are sensitive about people being buried in suburban backyards. I've known of people who fought long and hard to be buried on residential land. They gained thousands of signatures in a mass public petition and even accused any opposers as fighting directly against Almighty God. They warned the public if they opposed the residential burial then they would be judged as unworthy but they still lost their case.
Remember.... by all means get the house but don't push your luck. :-)
Comment by Candace on 2017-01-08 02:43:09
Thanks for sharing your review of this watchtower article Meleti. No one in my hall seems to be interested in thinking alternative points apart from what is in the article. There were many paragraphs where if I was skimming it then it makes perfect sense but as soon as I started asking questions, like the strange conclusions in paragraph 6.. it just wasn't a very satisfying study.
If there is an organisation of people using Jehovah's name for worship, then he should be very interested that they are conducting themselves worthily to glorify his name, not tarnish it any more. So either he blesses the arrangement, curses it, or does nothing about it like the suffering that continues every day around us. So looking for evidence I wonder if the reports of excellent growth and great experiences in the yearbook are some examples where he blesses the effort of the ministry work, and where the organisation deviates from what the bible says, then the opposite happens, such as lawsuits and banning.
Also what if imperfect humans need an organisation to learn about the Bible in the first place, like a child needs to go to school for basic education? I doubt the average person is inclined to search the scriptures for answers to life's questions. Most of the people I talk to in uni say the bible is boring and or 'not real'. Even if they wanted to know about the bible, would they be able to understand it on their own or like the Ethiopian eunich need someone to help him?
Acts 8:30,31 'Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know* what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him.'
So an organisation may be needed after all if only a stepping stone to spiritual growth and eventually following Christ in the way Jehovah wants, since the Law is written in our hearts.Reply by Colette on 2017-01-08 03:47:19
Hello Candace, I would agree with your conclusion about the usefulness, up to a point, of an organization. I personally was completely not religious, and needed an organization to whet my appetite for the spiritual and develop a love for God and His word. I believe that once our family had progressed to a certain point, an organizational structure was no longer necessary and we were able to prove our love for our Father and truth by leaving when the wickedness of the WT became apparent.
At Matthew 13, in the parable of the wheat and weeds, the wheat are left to grow alongside the weeds until maturity. The weeds serve to protect the wheat who would be damaged if the weeds were removed prematurely. I believe that our Loving Father tolerates the false religions we are in and works with us, and when the time is right, He removes us so that we can fully become part of the body of Christ.
That would explain why He listened to my prayers, in spite of my being a JW.
Also we need to be careful about whom we tell the truth about 'the truth' as they might not be ready and get damaged spiritually. Hence the many ex-Jw's whose faith in God is so destroyed that they become atheists.Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-08 23:48:47
Howdy Colette. I'm new here so forgive me if asking a question about your post is not in line with forum rules but are you saying you and your family left the truth as a matter of conscience? By leave, do you mean "Disassociated" or that you just became Inactive?
If the question is inappropriate in some way please feel free to set me straight....it's the only way I'll learn. :-) I'm not asking it as a challenge....just out of curiosity.Reply by Colette on 2017-01-09 07:40:40
Dear Enoch, you are most welcome to ask and I am happy to answer. I was a pioneer, baptized for 28 years, and completely horrified at how a Catholic for example could remain in their religion whilst it was covering up child abuse. In October 2015 I came across the Australian Royal Commission inquiry into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, case 29, where they investigated the Watchtower's mishandling of child abuse. I was horrified to learn how rife child abuse is in the organization, and also how the abuser is protected. A victim of child abuse needs to have two witnesses to the abuse before they are believed, so are often told to trust in Jehovah to sort it out in His own time. But at the same time, the congregation is not warned that there is a pedophile in their midst, and if someone were to warn others, they could be disfellowshipped for slander and gossip.
My husband asked me if Jesus would allow any children to be abused in the paradise, for example by a resurrected person. I replied 'NO of course not.' He then asked that how could Jesus be the head of the congregation today if he allowed even one child to be abused? Many of these people leave the organization as a result of the abuse. Yet how could God then destroy them at Armageddon?
There is a lot of child abuse in the congregations worldwide. I personally know of a number of cases too. The fact that it exists and the way it is handled is not compatible with our Loving Father, for whom the little ones are precious. The Royal commission interviewed Geoffrey Jackson. I expected him to show how God's organization was superior, and to explain matters. Instead he lied under oath, even saying that it would be presumptuous to say that the governing body is God's only channel, and he also said that JW's can resign from the org without any repercussions.
Being a JW, I was convinced that if I left the org, I would be destroyed at Armageddon, hence my test of faith. But Jesus said at Matthew 16:25 that if we want to save our soul, we will lose it. I loved right principle more than the security of being 'in the truth' and had to trust that our Father was a God of justice and He would not destroy me for leaving when the org was clearly bearing very bad fruit.
I thus gave the elders a letter stating that I am resigning according to the dispensation Geoffrey Jackson explained under oath. I heard a rumor that I am disfellowshipped but have not been officially informed of this. I gave a letter as it is against my conscience to be identified with any organization that enables child abuse (many of the abusers are / were elders). One of the policies that enables child abuse is the two witness rule, but it is a misapplication of scripture, as Leviticus makes provision for when a woman is raped in a field and no-one could hear her scream, hence no witness.
It was only after I left that I could see that the governing body is not teaching the truth from God's word, and that instead they are taking Jesus' place.
There are some really good articles on Beroean Pickets (meletivivlon.com) that show many teaching are a lot of nonsense, such as the disfellowshipping arrangement.
We live in South Africa in the Western Cape, in case you are nearby you are most welcome to come visit.Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-09 17:58:45
Howdy Colette. Thankyou so much for the info and also the invite. Would love to throw a few Boerewors on the Brai but I'm a little bit distantly challenged......sausages on the Barbie in my neck of the bush.:-) (thanks for the recent Crickecting lesson btw) I do however have Skype calling so if your family or any other brothers on here would like to catch up for a chin wag I'm always available. ( allowing of course for your whacky time zones :-) )
I've visited Capetown and it's setting including Paarl and Stellenbosch is some of the most beautiful country you'll ever see. ( Some staunch Afrikaaners out in those parts but ).
I also watched the Royal Commission as it's in my backyard and an associate who is a non Jw editor of a newspaper had it sent to him as an official media release so we both tracked the hearing and corresponded about the results. I also had a Professional Lawyer with no JW affiliation track the hearing to give me their views on how things went.
Both of these "secular' people were far from impressed by the brothers who appeared at the commission. They appeared to be "coached" on how to answer and more interested in saving face then being honest..ie.....no contrition.
I tried to be as fair as possible but it was hard to put a positive spin on it as far as the brothers were concerned. It was clear that they were going to do everything possible to stop a member of the GB appearing at the hearing and the Commission picking up on this actually directly accused the brothers of lying under oath when they said that Geoffry Jackson would have no knowledge that would contribute to the investigation of the Commission.
The Commission felt betrayed and misled by the Australian Branch which had discussions outside of the hearing with the Commissioner trying to prove that Geoffry Jackson would have nothing of interest to contribute to the investigation.
The allegation of Perjury was made to Terry Obrien. I've met this brother personally and he is a nice bloke. You can see him struggling with himself as he is trying to "be loyal" by saying they were'nt trying to keep Mr Jackson away from the hearing. As far as Terry Obrien goes, from what I know of the man he was sincerely doing what he thought was the right thing but was struggling with it as he did.
The thing that stood out the most to me was that the "Secular Authority" seemed to be behaving with Empathy, Compassion, Justice, Truth and even Honour and our Organization seemed to be acting like a face saving exercise. Their is one point where Geoffry Jackson asks for the Commission to convey the love of the GB to the disfellowshipped sister who was the victim of the mishandled case in Queensland. If the GB was so full of love for this sister, why not do it themselves? It came across as patronizing, token and Phoney.
Also of interest was that the brothers appeared to not hear any of the evidence given by anyone that was disfellowshipped that testified at the Commission. The Commission would ask if they heard the evidence given and the brothers would answer "NO". Not a good look!!!!
When I look at the Scriptures , Jehovah never ever engages in face saving or damage control. Quite the opposite. He presents his people laid bare with all their faults for the whole world to see. It's the candor that Jehovah shows through his holy word that is one of the things that gives me such love for it. It is so honest. No lies. No cover ups. If Israel was misbehaving then he exposed it.Often times he would use the "worldly" authorities to carry out the justice. In the Christian congregation in the first century, many of the inspired letters are expos'es of wrong doing and corruption in the congregation.
For a long time in the 20th century we were quite militant as an Organization in criticizing error in other Christian faiths while simultaneously presenting ourselves to the world as the most wonderful, honest and loving group of people on the planet. It's interesting that the Apostle Paul's writings consisted of large amounts of corrective counsel and exhortation for the brothers but were rather brief in his discussion of others such as the Jews, Gnostics etc. I don't get the impression that the Apostle Paul was publicly condemning non Chistians in fact at the Areopagus he presents the message to the Greeks with tact and respect. Acts 17: 22-34.
I can give you a personal example of this. I left my wallet on the roof of the car whilst unlocking it and then drove off without putting it back in my pocket. A passerby found it and took it to the police. It was returned to me with no money missing. When I related my good fortune to the brothers they said "that it must of been a JW that found it. Only a JW would be that honest." What a self righteous , arrogant analysis. There are many people in the non JW community that would of turned it in buy in the minds of the brothers only they were capable of such integrity and honesty. Delusional.
The fact is the more the Organization distances itself from Jesus the more self righteous it becomes. The shed blood of Jesus Christ creates a level playing field. All of us are sinnners and all of us need this provision. If this provision is covered over and suppressed then righteousness by Grace is diminished and righteousness by Man takes over to fill the void.
Rom 3:21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
I love many of the truths the Watchtower has published but the suppression of Jesus and the elevation of Man has been a grave mistake.It has the Devils fingerprints all over it and I'm still coming to terms with the enormity of such an error.
Phil 3:18 For many walk, of whom I told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 whose end is perdition, whose god is the belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.
Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself.
Anyway Colette , thankyou for answering my question and for taking a stand using your Christian trained conscience. Much appreciated. :-)Reply by Colette on 2017-01-10 01:33:02
Enoch thanks for the background on the RC. Jehovah cannot lie, and there is no instance in the bible of Him approving lying or blessing it. The case of David and the showbread proved totally disastrous so evidently didn't have His blessing. Truthfulness is the basis of integrity, and we must love not only the truth of God's word, but also truth in general. Theocratic warfare is un-scriptural, immoral, and evidence of a lack of faith and trust in the God of Truth. Just another of the rotten fruit on the tree that the org is full of.
Reply by Colette on 2017-01-10 01:33:56
Enoch, why don't you send your email address to Meleti so that he can put us in touch.
Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-10 05:11:55
Ok Colette will do. I'm not sure how soon he'll get onto it. Last time I checked he was being chauffeured through California looking at Real Estate. Apparently the main delay is he can't find a place big enough. :-) :-)
Reply by Colette on 2017-01-10 06:38:57
:-)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-08 10:16:07
You make a valid point, Candace. When we reflect back on the time of Russell, we see that what existed then was a publisher who supplied printed materials which others could use as they chose. He was not the only publisher of scriptural research. What became the international Association of Bible students was really a conglomeration of independent groups in different countries who'd gotten together in small congregations to study the Bible. They used the publications from the watchtower Bible and tract Society, but they also used other literature and chose the Bible version they wished to study from. They did not answer to anyone except Jesus Christ.
It was only when they were brought together under a central organization that they became particularly susceptible to the influence of men. Once he became organized as a single entity, they needed leadership in the form of men. History shows that it was all downhill from that point.
Comment by Fili us on 2017-01-08 07:00:17
Even before this article came out I’ve been trying my darndest to find this past foundation of a unified organisation. It sure enough wasn’t recognized in the USA during antebellum slavery. I’ve searched through and throughout the Proclaimers Book only to find on page 116, the faces of 11 Caucasian men (The Governing Body). At one time before that it reached 28 and not a single person of color or any other non-white during those times. Am I to continue to believe almighty God was behind that?
Furthermore, we’re instructed to never stop preaching no matter what, but the organisation had no problem NOT challenging or yielding to segregation even when it came down to marriage offending others who weren’t even believers. What an odd way to show unity, especially when we have John 15:12 and John 13:35 to ponder on. Once again all of that gets glanced over with no explanation of what the organisation was doing to set the ultimate example “for love of brother” besides lip service. They are very big on demanding cooperation in Gods name but don't cooperate with Christ clear direction.
Another relevant scripture that is constantly used to browbeat some who are viewed as weak in the organisation is Hebrews 10:25 but notice how that wasn't emphasized during segregation or when the black brothers and sisters wanted to pioneer, receive literature or view the photo drama of creation along with the white brothers and sisters. Could you imagine if Jehovah told Moses "no spiritual teaching for you because your not a good speaker" the way the organisation told black brothers and sisters who couldn't read that because "they couldn't read they weren't going to get pertinent spiritual food" or because of "worldly" non-believing bigots they would have to view the drama separately? Is this the the organizing and Organisation we are talking about?
Comment by kyaecker on 2017-01-08 14:24:53
Meleti. I'm curious. Paragraph 13 talks about marking and a marking talk. The results are that the brothers and sisters stop socializing with such ones but not treat them as an enemy. How is this accomplished? Furthermore, if the person repents, who if ever, informs the congregation of this change and that the shunning can stop? Is there an "Unmarking talk I'm not aware of. -ken
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-08 15:12:56
Marking as practiced by JWs is a misapplication of Paul's counsel. A talk is given without naming the person and everyone is supposed to treat them differently. This is not what Paul is saying at all. See Dealing with Sinners - Part 2.
Reply by tyhik on 2017-01-08 15:26:03
@kyaecker. I think I have read from somebody's experience that unmarking is done by elders starting to openly socialise with the previously marked. The flock understands this as the signal.
Comment by lazarus on 2017-01-08 15:52:51
Hi Meleti, as I've made a comment, I'll keep this short. In his opening introduction, our brother stated, I guess in ref to para 1. "We've spoken to people who've stated that , you don't need to be part of a organisation to be saved, I read my bible, I have a personal relationship with God" then he stated, "is that correct viewpoint?" Also will learn that Jehovah is incomparable Organizer." In the old days, you could throw the watchtower conductor a Question, if you wanted another explanation not highlighted in the paragraph. The Book Study was good for that type of discussion.
Although not a common practice, ones did do that. Now that would make it for a more robust and exciting meeting. Well it's Organized just like The GB want it! Just answer the para, keep your comments brief. 1Pe 1:23 Romans 10:9 John 3:16.