“Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!” - Canto VI, XVII, popularized by the Scottish poem, Marmion.
It is an accepted truism that lies beget more lies as the liar must find ways to support the initial falsehood. While this is the case for the willful liar, what about the well-intentioned Bible researcher who unwittingly arrives at a false conclusion? While not necessarily making such a one a liar, he is still perpetrating falsehood, albeit unknowingly. Sure of his belief, he starts to see every relevant scriptural passage through the warped lens of what he sees as “present truth”.[i]
Let us take for instance, the teaching that Jesus was enthroned in the heavens in 1914, making that the year the Kingdom of God was established.[ii] Any Scripture that speaks of Jesus as King must be woven into the web that includes the 1914 establishment of his Kingdom. This brings us to this week’s CLAM, under the meeting part, “Treasures from God’s Word” – “A King Will Reign for Righteousness”. Here, Isaiah 32:1-4 is discussed:
“Look! A king will reign for righteousness, And princes will rule for justice. (Isa 32:1)
Since the belief is that the king began to reign in 1914, the princes must also be reigning since then. This immediately creates a discrepancy with other passages in the Bible. The Word of God makes it clear that anointed Christians will rule with Christ as kings and priests. (2Ti 2:12; Re 5:10; Re 20:4) When a king reigns under another king, he is also called a prince. Jesus, ruling under Jehovah God, is called both king and prince. For instance, he is called the “Prince of Peace” by Isaiah. (Isa. 9:6) So these anointed kings must be the princes who “will rule for justice itself.” Is there another conclusion that is consistent with the rest of Scripture? Unfortunately, this conclusion does not jibe with the teaching that Jesus began ruling over 100 years ago, since it would force us to find a way to fit the following verses into the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“And each one will be like a hiding place from the wind, A place of concealment from the rainstorm, Like streams of water in a waterless land, Like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land. 3 Then the eyes of those seeing will no longer be pasted shut, And the ears of those hearing will pay attention. 4 The heart of those who are impetuous will ponder over knowledge, And the stammering tongue will speak fluently and clearly.” (Isa 32:2-4)
Therefore, we must assume that the Jesus’ co-rulers are being completely ignored in this prophecy. Instead, Isaiah is being inspired to write about congregation elders. This is the teaching we are told to accept by those claiming to be the faithful slave.
Right now in this time of worldwide distress, there is a need for “princes,” yes, elders who will “pay attention to . . . all the flock,” caring for Jehovah’s sheep and administering justice in harmony with Jehovah’s righteous principles. (Acts 20:28) Such “princes” must meet the qualifications set out in 1 Timothy 3:2-7 and Titus 1:6-9. (ip-1 chap. 25 p. 332 par. 6 The King and His Princes)
Additionally, since JW theology teaches that the anointed will leave earth and go to heaven and govern remotely from there, an additional role opens up for these elder-princes.
“Princes” who are of the other sheep are being trained as a developing “chieftain” class so that after the great tribulation, qualified ones from among them will be ready for appointment to serve in an administrative capacity in the “new earth.”
(ip-1 chap. 25 pp. 332-334 par. 8 The King and His Princes)
Since verse 1 says that the princes rule for justice, we must conclude that elders are to rule. If one rules, one is a governor, a leader, a ruler. This means that congregation elders are rulers or leaders. Yet Jesus tells us that we are to be called neither “Teacher” nor “Leader”. How can we weave that particular Bible truth into our web?
Of course, if we discard the teaching that 1914 is the start of Christ’s rule, then we can understand that the period Isaiah is pointing to must be the 1,000 reign of Christ when the princes that rule with him will actually rule as kings do. Additionally, for verses 2 thru 4 to apply, we would have to accept that these princes will have face-to-face contact with those they rule, just as the resurrected Jesus had physical contact with his disciples. Since the resurrection of millions of unrighteous will be a time of turmoil as these ones—many of whom will likely be resistant to the new arrangement—are integrated into a new society, there is ample reason to believe the words of the prophet will prove very true.
The Congregation Bible Study
We have been led to believe from this book and numerous references down through the years in the magazines that the 1919 convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, was the turning point at which the great campaign to preach to all the inhabited earth began. The release of the Golden Age was to be a major part of the preaching campaign to proclaim the Good News of the Christ to the entire inhabited earth. One might therefore assume that the central message of the Golden Age would be “The King and His Kingdom”. After all, that is what Rutherford was calling for all his followers to “Advertise! Advertise! Advertise!”
Here is a capture of the index from the first issue of the Golden Age. Looking at subsequent issues, one can see little change in content.
At a time when the phrase, "An honest day's work for an honest dollar", could be applied literally, a cost of 10 cents an issue was no giveaway. Had you lived then, and as true Christian preacher of the Good News, would you have felt you were making good use of your time in Christ's service by trying to sell subscriptions to this magazine, given its contents?
Did sincere Christians really resist the idea that they should share in the ministry, as paragraph 16 alleges, or was their objection to sharing in Rutherford’s version of the ministry the real objection? Consider that this magazine’s title was based on the belief that the Golden Age was about to begin in 1925, that humanity was even then in the midst of the great tribulation which would culminate in Armageddon. Would you want to share in that ministry?
The publications paint a rosy picture of zealous preachers doing the Lord's work, but the historical reality paints an entirely different landscape.
_______________________________________________________
[i] One might assume that at some point, it would become evident to the sincere Bible student when his belief is proven false. At such a point in time, continuing to teach it would qualify as “liking and carrying on a lie”. (Re 22:15) Nevertheless, God is the final judge.
[ii] For an analysis of this teaching, see Was 1914 the Start of Christ’s Presence?
Archived Comments
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Comment by kyaecker on 2017-01-10 04:12:37
Thank you Meleti. That princes thing is deep. So deep I am missing your point and I've been a witness since 1990. I get they are applying Isaiah to themselves, we do that a lot. It's the 1914 thing and this being about the 1,000 year reign. Is there a way you can distill your thoughts down to a nutshell
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-10 08:50:02
The question is, what was Isaiah inspired to prophesy about? From verse one of chapter 32 it's obvious he's talking about the messianic kingdom. Under the old covenant, the Jews would have become the kingdom of priests. However, due to their unfaithfulness a new covenant was formed which extended the promise to Gentiles. So reading Isaiah's prophecy with the benefit of Christian hindsight, we would naturally conclude that the princes he refers to in verse one would be the kings and priests that accompany Jesus in the kingdom of the heavens. If Isaiah were really inspired to talk about imperfect humans serving as elders in the Christian congregation, one would expect to see a third class referred to. That is, a king, princes, and administrators or perhaps regents. But given that he only refers to the two entities – one King and many princes – there seems to be no basis for ignoring those who will serve with him in the kingdom of the heavens.
However, the organization chooses to ignore the application of this verse as pertaining to the establishment of the messianic kingdom in the future because they believe the messianic kingdom was established in 1914. If it was established in 1914, then where are the princes? Since the anointed only rule for a thousand years as kings and priests, and since the thousand years has not yet begun, the organization must look elsewhere.
It serves them well to apply this prophecy to the elder arrangement within the organization. It provides additional legitimacy.
If we apply these verses to the thousand year reign, much is revealed about what that kingdom will be like. It won't be the idyllic paradise that the watchtower depicts in countless illustrations. It will be chaotic at times. The conditions mentioned in verses five and six for example will also take place, and it is to be expected because millions of imperfect, willful, and deviant people are to be resurrected so as to be given a chance to change. Those who will change, will require time to do so. They will also be those who will not change, but who will be tolerated for a time. (Isa. 65:20)
Comment by lazarus on 2017-01-10 07:17:59
Thanks Meleti for the review, I agree, that the Princess would be those in the new covenant. As you mentioned Isaiah 32 verse 1 talks about princes bringing Justice. If one looks at the current record of Chikd Abusr Cases in Australia and globally, some of these crimes were committed by Eldrs. Also Elders for decades haven't even reported These crimes to the police when brought to their attention. Fail to see how then vrs 2-4 can rightly be applied!
It was a Interesting clam meeting tonight, especially if your a Prince.
I read Isaiah 32 and had to take a second glance, verse 6 seemed a little odd. It was one word that stood out.
The verse It reads, NWT Isa 32:6 For the senseless one will speak nonsense, And his heart will devise harmful things, To promote apostasy and to speak what is wayward against Jehovah, To cause the hungry one to go unfed And to deprive the thirsty one of something to drink.
Did you notice the odd word in this scripture? If you said the word Apostasy, well that's what I thought as well. Why? It's a Greek word not a Hebrew word. Would Isaiah have used this Greek word Apostasy, apostasia in his day? No. Well I don't think so.
The footnote in the NWT says of Isaiah 32:6aOr “act in an irreverent way.”
So, why didn't they incorporate the footnote into the verse? Makes sense. Apostasy doesn't .
So, then, is this the definition of Apostasy?
Apostasy means according Strongs (Greek-apostatise,) feminine of the same as G647; "defection from truth"(properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.
Apostasy in the Insight book : "This term in Greek (a·po·sta·siʹa) comes from the verb a·phiʹste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” (Ac 21:21, ftn)...in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law."
Note how other bible translations, translate this verse.
Isaiah 32:6 (AMP). For the fool speaks nonsense,And his heart (mind) plans wickedness:To practice ungodliness and to speak error concerning the Lord,To keep the craving of the hungry unsatisfied. And to deprive the thirsty of drink.
Byington
Isa 32:6 For a rascal talks rascality and his brain works up villainy, doing ungodly things and talking fallacies about Jehovah, keeping a hungry man’s stomach empty and cutting down a thirsty man’s drink;
American Standard Version
Isa 32:6 For the fool will speak folly, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise profaneness, and to utter error against Jehovah, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and to cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
King James Version
Isa 32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
New International Version
For fools speak folly, their hearts are bent on evil: They practice ungodliness and spread error concerning the LORD; the hungry they leave empty and from the thirsty they withhold water.
New Living Translation
For fools speak foolishness and make evil plans. They practice ungodliness and spread false teachings about the LORD. They deprive the hungry of food and give no water to the thirsty.
English Standard Version
For the fool speaks folly, and his heart is busy with iniquity, to practice ungodliness, to utter error concerning the LORD, to leave the craving of the hungry unsatisfied, and to deprive the thirsty of drink.
Young Literal Translation
For a fool speaketh folly, And his heart doth iniquity, to do profanity, And to speak concerning Jehovah error, To empty the soul of the hungry, Yea, drink of the thirsty he causeth to lack.
So, have they deliberately added the word Apostasy in this verse? Yes. But Why? It doesn't make sense. I'm no expert, but further research into the watchtower's commentary on Isaiah 32:6, one might then get an answer to the question.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-10 08:38:10
I think the answer to your question lies with the application given this verse by the Governing Body. They apply it to the elder arrangement, so anyone who doesn't support the arrangement can be labelled an apostate and dealt with.
Reply by lazarus on 2017-01-10 14:13:41
Yes exactly. There's only a few references to this scripture in the WT Library, I think it's a ref in 1984/85 and the Isaiah book commentary. So, it's conveniently added into the Hebrew Text, were the Christ and Princess make a show. Thanks Meleti for your response.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-10 08:56:17
If we accept the Watchtower's interpretation that these verses apply to the elder arrangement, then we have woefully failed to fulfill them. We stand condemned by our own application of Scripture.
“And each one will be like a hiding place from the wind, A place of concealment from the rainstorm, Like streams of water in a waterless land, Like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land.” (Isa 32:2)
Thousands of little ones have run to the elders to report abuses – and I'm not just limiting this to sexual abuse – and have found no concealment from the rainstorm and no protective shadow from the burning sun. They have only been given platitudes such as, "wait on Jehovah". Jehovah gave these men a job to do, and more often than not they pass the buck when the going gets rough.
And when these little ones flee elsewhere to find concealment from the rainstorm and protection from the burning sun, they are persecuted by being shunned by all family and friends at the instigation of the very men charged with giving them protection.
The Lord is watching! Do they expect to escape punishment anymore than the scribes, Pharisees, and Jewish leaders escaped it? God is not one to be mocked. (Gal. 6:7)Reply by lazarus on 2017-01-10 14:07:01
The evidence has piled up and I'm sure has reached the Heavens.
Comment by Rufus on 2017-01-10 10:37:42
Last week, Meleti, you provided a powerful argument with the appointment of Timothy that there was no theocratic line of apostolic authority over the activities of Paul and Timothy in their missionary work.
An even more dramatic example of the missing governing body is seen in the start of those missionary travels. Acts 13:1–3 (NWT Ref) states
13 Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Barʹna·bas as well as Symʹe·on who was called Niʹger, and Lucius of Cy·reʹne, and Manʹa·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. 2 As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Barʹna·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then they fasted and prayed and laid their hands upon them and let them go.
Again and again the “organization” of these travels and the opening up of new territories, forming or support of new congregations including appointment of older men, and direction of the world-wide preaching effort is done directly by Jesus sending forth his spirit
(Acts 16:6, 7) 6 Moreover, they went through Phrygʹi·a and the country of Ga·laʹti·a, because they were forbidden by the holy spirit to speak the word in the [district of] Asia. 7 Further, when getting down to Mysʹi·a they made efforts to go into Bi·thynʹi·a, but the spirit of Jesus did not permit them.
(Philippians 1:18-20) 18 What then? [Nothing,] except that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being publicized, and in this I rejoice. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing, 19 for I know this will result in my salvation through YOUR supplication and a supply of the spirit of Jesus Christ, 20 in harmony with my eager expectation and hope that I shall not be ashamed in any respect, but that in all freeness of speech Christ will, as always before, so now be magnified by means of my body, whether through life or through death.
The leading example of the authority and influence of the “governing body” is the conference and letter drafted in Acts 15. But as you have noted, this letter was an apology to Gentiles over the interference of “men from James” in a matter not backed by Holy Spirit.
How did Paul later characterize this meeting in Jerusalem with the Apostles? Galatians 2 gives us his answer.
(Galatians 2:1-21) Then after 14 years I again went up to Jerusalem with Barʹna·bas, also taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up as a result of a revelation, and I presented to them the good news that I am preaching among the nations. This was done privately, however, before the men who were highly regarded, to make sure that I was not running or had not run in vain. 3 Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek. 4 But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us; 5 we did not yield in submission to them, no, not for a moment, so that the truth of the good news might continue with you. 6 But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me.
This would be analogous to a group of elders traveling to the service department of the Watchtower Society to tell them to stop sending those annoying traveling brothers to the congregation with their ever-changing letters of instruction for how the congregation should be supervised.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-10 16:55:41
Well said, Rufus, well said!
Comment by lazarus on 2017-01-10 15:33:22
Meleti, Just on the Book Study, this might be of interest to some.i saw this point elsewhere brought out.
Well, if you were reading para 17, with no access to these articles, you might well walk away with the impression that such was the zeal and attitude towards the preaching in the 1920's.
The quote in book study.
March 15, 1926 Watchtower, “The faithful will be volunteers . . . to tell this message to the people.”
Not the full quote.
The full sentence reads. “The faithful will be volunteers in the day of God's wrath to tell this message to the people.”
Page 9, if your searching for it.
Why don't they just quote the whole sentence?
What's of interest is this week, we looked at the 1919 Convention as pivotal, and the introduction of the Awake mag. Why? Basically from Jw.org point of view, new impetus to preach. After all they were lost sheep, didn't go to heaven in 1914,1915 etc. "By mid-1919 about one in seven Bible Students had left, forming such groups as The Stand Fast Bible Students Association, Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, Dawn Bible Students Association, Pastoral Bible Institute, Elijah Voice Movement and Eagle Society.[Subscriptions to The Watch Tower also fell from 45,000 to fewer than 3000 between 1914 and 1918. Source Wikipedia
So, here again in 1925, no resurrection of the Faithful of old. Can you imagine the disappointment? Yes numbers dropped out of the org.
I never thought of the cost involved. Good point Meleti.
Besides what training did the average publisher have to preach and teach people Gods message? With all the training , apps, videos etc today, many shy away from this work
Comment by Candace on 2017-01-10 19:28:42
'Right now in this time of worldwide distress'.. I have to be honest and find sentences like that (are regularly) in our publications super irritating. It paints a unnecessarily negative picture of a world that is gloomy and scary place to be in, so no wonder thats how I felt growing up in my teens! Maybe thats the reason why I get sudden anxiety and depressive moments from time to time.
The world is a safer and healthier place to live now than ever before based on my research. For example I would never exchange my life with anyone living during the time of the black plague, spanish flu or any of the world wars.
Like Jesus said in Matt 24:3, the wards, natural disasters and food shortages are only the BEGINNING of the pangs of distress.... lets hope the rest isn't going to be in our lifetime!
What if we find that one or more of our believes is actually not a scriptural one? I hope courage will allow us to speak up and express our sincere faith in Gods word and not from men. So far I have sat in 3 'shepherding calls' already about my higher education, the last one was spoken to me in a harsh way which I didn't expect at all. I wasn't expecting the elders to be that forceful with me. I am made to feel like I have been disobedient, not putting kingdom interests first, and causing other young ones to stumble because of my independent, 'fleshly' desires. No lie, I cried on the drive back home.. :o
I hope the princes we get in the new world will be more kindly than that!Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-10 21:10:29
Howdy Candace. You sound fairly young..ie..in your 20's and I'm sorry you are experiencing that kind of treatment. I'm a bit of a Social Science buff and I read a paper that said when blokes enter their 40's they develop a "mentor" mentality. You realize the mistakes you made in your 20's and 30's and how quickly youth disappears and you start wanting to protect younger travellers from the pitfalls you encountered. That's how I felt when I read your post.
In the 1980's I left school at 15 because the time was almost up. The Super Power rivalry between Russia and the USA and the Nuclear issue meant that the system would meet it's end in the 90's and this was regularly taught by the body of Elders. The first Gulf War in 1990 had the whole congregation buzzing. If someone expressed the view that we may see the the year 2000 they were frowned upon. Many of my mates became part of what is called as the "JW Janitor Generation". We firmly believed that we would only have to sweep floors for a few years and it would all be over. In fact some nights we would sit under the stars and say "Just think. We are the first humans in history that will never age. The generation that saw 1914 will not pass away. Wow. How lucky are we to have born in Generation X!!!"
Jesus told us to keep in expectation of his coming. He also was a Carpenter that began his full time ministry at the age of 30. Candace, the whole reason that you've ended up here on this site is that you have a love for scriptural knowledge and you also have a keen mind. It's commendable to see a young person taking interest in these things so please don't let these men rob you of your joy!!
Try this exercise. Grab an A4 piece of paper and draw three columns. In the first column at the top writ a title "Christian Doctrine". In this column you can list things like the Divine Name, The Death and Sacrifice of Jesus, No hellfire etc.
In the second column write a title at the top entitled "Christian Morals and Living." In this column you can list things like Honesty, Integrity, Cleanliness, Chastity, No Homosexuality etc perhaps even using the scriptural references as well.
In the third Column write a title at the top called "organization". This column might include things like Kingdom Hall Cleaning, Pioneering, Dress Standards, etc. These things are guidelines that the Society gives us that we follow that are not necessarily stated in the bible. Underneath the title Organization write as a subtitle " Theocracy not supported by Scripture is simply Bureaucracy" . This is not to say that you should never follow Bureaucratic Guidelines but it is your right as a Christian to make a decision based on conscience if it is not directly stated in the bible.
Gal 6:4 You should each judge your own conduct. If it is good, then you can be proud of what you yourself have done, without having to compare it with what someone else has done.
Gal 6:5 For each of you have to carry your own load.
This is a simple exercise in "Compartmentalization" but it can be very helpful in helping you not to let other people ruin your love for the first two columns. It helps you to seperate what is from man and what is from God. What happens to many young ones your age is that when under unjust pressure from the Elders they become discouraged and they lose their faith in all three columns. This is'nt because they have a bad attitude it's just because all the three things get mixed together and in desperation they abandon the whole lot!
The visits from the Elders counselling you against University are in Column 3. By viewing it that way you can keep perspective and still maintain your joy in the Christian hope and way of life.
I recently had an Elder in Sydney boasting to me that most of the Body were on salaries between 250k to 500k per annumn. These same brothers make shepherding calls like you just received telling you that your decision to get job skills at University is non Christian because it reflects a Worldly attitude.
The Society is correct. There are dangers for you at University as a young Christian but there dangers for you no matter where you go. If you quit and go and work at Walmart you be surrounded by young people that don't share your Christian Values. If you go into business by yourself you will be interacting with Secular Clients on a regular basis. You will face challenges as a Christian no matter where you go so don't let other people control your conscience.
Please don't think I'm telling you be rebellious. I'm not promoting rebellion, only perspective. You have an intelligent mind and I hope you continue to use it!!
Best wishes.Reply by lazarus on 2017-01-11 01:04:41
Good Advice Enoch. I can relate to your Gen X scene. I started to Study the Bible in Sydney in the 1980's , I left my full time Job, joined the cleaning club, lol and started pioneering.
Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-11 02:55:50
Well, if you were living in Sydney you were naturally looking for something better!! :-) :-) You need Trams mate....lots of Trams! :-)
Us Gen X'ers really got whipped up in the generation thing. I slept with an 1984 Awake under my pillow which had a clock on the front showing Three minutes to Midnight. If a brother decided to complete High School the congregation looked at him sideways. The one brother that did is now a CO!!! His father had the rare ability to encourage him to get a qualification. We were running around on 7 bucks per hour and he was making $25.
Some nights if there was thunder I couldn't sleep because I thought it was the BIG A and I was going to die.
At least the music was good!!! :-) :-)
If you're still in Rooland and you feel like a chat feel free to ask Meleti for my Email. I've got Skype and also unlimited calling to Aus Local and US UK NZ international.Reply by lazarus on 2017-01-11 04:07:20
I was born and bred in Sydney. It was an interesting time for many of us. The Fear of the end created a sense of Urgency for sure. Sure, it would nice to talk, I'll ask Meleti for your email. Talk soon.
Reply by Candace on 2017-01-11 08:25:48
Thanks a lot Enoch, your comments mean a lot to me. Its come just at the right time because like you say, its easy to be discouraged and lose faith in 'all 3 columns' which I was literally very tempted to do. If you know that you have given your very best and have been working like mad to make ends meet but then get told off for not being good enough, that is so discouraging.
Its interesting reading about what you said of the 'mentor mentality'. I would love to make as little bad choices in life as possible before I get to my 30s and beyond so I can look back at this time and say no regrets. My mum always says 'if only..' or 'I wish I can go back and change..' which is not a very healthy way to think. It reminds me of Lot's wife because she kept looking at the past instead of being in the present and having hope for the future.
One last thing - 'most of the Body were on salaries between 250k to 500k per annum'. Pardon? Where is this salary coming from? I thought Bethelites get just what they need for basic food and clothing. Do the body have outside jobs as well? This is genuinely a surprise to me.Reply by Enoch on 2017-01-14 00:21:20
Howdy Candace. My apologies for the delay. I was on a quick 1000 mile Jaunt interstate so couldn't respond to your post.
My apologies. I meant "the Body of Elders" ..not the GB. Sorry if I confused you with my wording. :-)
You are right about looking back. One illustration some of the brothers use is that of driving a car. Most of our focus is forward but we do need to make glances into our rear vision mirrors as we navigate. ( Some women I know can even do a full make over in the rear view mirror whilst simultaneously drinking a coffee and making a phone call. Sisters hey? Is there nothing they can;t do? :-) )
In regards to University not many brothers in the US realize but for brothers in places such as the Phillipines and India the majority of young witnesses go into University with the Brother's blessing.
The reason for this is that things are so bad in those countries that an unskilled job will not meet the needs of taking care of a family. It will barely cater for a single person individually.
I've met brothers from those countries with degrees in Marketing, Business, Civil Engineering, Law etc and they are fine in the truth. Some of them come to Australia and get residency because of their education. It's interesting to see these foriegn labour workers then earning far more then the Australian Born brothers who are struggling in poorly paid employment because they were discouraged from further education.
In the 1990's the brothers released an Awake article called " A balanced view of Education". This article quite rightly made higher education a personal decision that was up to the young witness and their Parents. Brothers were encouraged not to look down on families that put their Children into University.
After this article quite a number of young witnesses in Australia went to Uni and got degrees in Teaching, Engineering, Accounting etc and did very well. I know of 2 that became Teachers that secured work in regional Australia and went on to become an Elder and MS respectively . They couldn't of secured work in those locations without their degree in Teaching so it worked well for them and their spiritual goals.
Then around about 2005 a WT article came out speaking against higher education again. It was like there was a brief window for about 10 years where the H>E> issue was purely a conscience matter and then there was a backlash against it and it hasn't changed since.
I was told anecdotally that they were having problems with young brothers and sisters in the USA actually going to live on campus and going to Frat parties etc and getting into a lot of trouble. I"ve been told that it's quite common for kids in America to live on campus whereas in Aust it's mainly foreign language students that live in Dorms whereas the local students just come and go from home. The brothers were implying the Yankee brothers were being too "American centric" with their advice as brothers in other countries don't have problems with "Campus Social Life". I'm not sure if that's accurate or not ....just what was floating around the mill.
Myself personally, I went to Uni recently and didn't have any issues. I just did my lectures and tutorials and went home. People were nice and I didn't experience any troubles during my time there.
My position as your Christian Brother is that I and other members should support you whichever way you decide. You might for some reason, find that University is affecting your spirituality and decide to leave. In that case I would support you in that decision. If you decided to stay at University I'd support you in that decision also.
We had a real cringe worthy experience in the WT some time ago about two young men at Bethel Headquarters that got drunk and committed an act of Homosexuality. As shocking as that example is , does that mean they should of avoided Bethel? Or was it something lacking in them as Individuals? As I said previously, In a world laying in the Power of the wicked one you are going to be tested wherever you go. 1 John 5:19
When men decide to make righteousness something that they themselves can legislate beyond the holy scriptures, the flock always suffers. The Pharisees were Jehovah's Witnesses of the day and they beat the flock into despondency with endless rules that had no basis in scripture.
It's interesting that one of the societies favourite scriptures 1 Cor 15:33 is nearly always applied to people straying on issues of morality. The worse association a person can have in my opinion is with brothers that are legalistic and self righteous. The bible clearly states that righteousness is only possible through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Hence if a brother tries to establish his own form of righteousness he quite literally becomes "against Christ"..or a type of Antichrist. When an Elder or publisher develops a pattern of life that is consistently "against Christ" then they become a target for Satan to use against the flock.
Co 11:3 I am afraid that your minds will be corrupted and that you will abandon your full and pure devotion to Christ---in the same way that Eve was deceived by the snake's clever lies.
2Co 11:4 For you gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit and a gospel completely different from the Spirit and the gospel you received from us!
2Co 11:5 I do not think that I am the least bit inferior to those very special so-called "apostles" of yours!
The thing is with the sin of Self Righteousness is that it can masquerade as Zeal and devotion which makes it a very insidious and dangerous enemy. That's why Jesus called them Wolves in Sheeps clothing.
I don't know your Body Of Elders but if the attitude they are displaying is part of a pattern then they are bad associates. Keep them at arms length and seek out association with ones that are kind and nurturing. It is your absolute right as a Christian to protect yourself from Bullying which is a form of Abuse.
Candace, don't take the harshness of these brothers as a sign that you have lost Jehovah's blessing. Satan attacks the sheep that he feels threatened by. If brothers and sisters here can see your potential then make no mistake, so can Satan. If you weren't valuable to Christ and Jehovah then he wouldn't be trying to discourage you to give up. Some of the Apostle Paul's worse opposition came from within the Congregation. Imagine after risking your life and under going much hardship to hear back that the very persons you are trying to save are telling everyone. ...
"For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible." 2 Corinthians 10:10.
or in Modern speak...
"hey you know the Apostle Paul? The one that writes all the fancy letters? You wait to you see him...the guy's a little weasel ....a complete wimp with all the oratory skill of a baked Potatoe. " :-)
Paul didn't buy into their nonsense and neither should you. Keep your chin up and pray to Jehovah for wisdom to handle your situation. Confide in brothers and sisters that are Kind and believe that Mercy triumphs over judgement.
Jas 2:12 Speak and act as people who will be judged by the law that sets us free.
Jas 2:13 For God will not show mercy when he judges the person who has not been merciful; but mercy triumphs over judgment.
James 1:5New International Version (NIV)
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.Reply by Menrov on 2017-01-14 03:52:44
Either higher education is bad or it is not. regardless where one follows such education. But such a decision is personal. And is it the education or the environment in which that education is followed? The WBTS wants / needs to control most of one's life. If there were some JW's who behaved badly (in the eyes of the WBTS) while following higher education, is that a reason to completely avoid higher education? And should every one now avoid JW's because of the behavior of a few? Now let's look at the scriptures. Are there example of good people in God's eyes that had a enjoyed higher education or were in a very senior position, a position in a government, close to the leader of that government? Daniel maybe? Paul maybe? Moses?
Anyway, the type and location and level of your education is a personal decision. The type and location and level of your work is your personal decision. Christians are accountable for their OWN decisions and acts and it is Jesus who will judge. Any organisation who does not respect that, gives not the right example (to be polite).
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-11 09:38:46
>>I hope the princes we get in the new world will be more kindly than that!
They will be, because they will have been tested thoroughly as to fitness, as Jesus was.
“. . .as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Indeed, consider closely the one who has endured such hostile speech from sinners against their own interests, so that you may not get tired and give up.” (Heb 12:2, 3)
The interesting thing for you Candace is that you now have the opportunity to show that same kind of faith with the hope of becoming one of the princes in the New World.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-01-11 04:04:23
Matthew 13:44 Paragraph 20 God's Kingdom Rules.
The only comment on this scripture applied it to our making whatever sacrifices are needed to keep kingdom interests first in our life. Does this sound right to you ?
Note "the field" in verse 44. The Greek uses the definite pronoun, "the". now compare verse 38. The meaning should now hit you like a bolt of lightning. If it does not, then go back to the 1991 Greatest Man book. Chapter 43 has a clear explanation showing plainly the man is Jesus.
Why is this publication not referred to on the On Line library ? OK, It is, sort of, but it is in grey so you cannot look it up . In fact we do not seem to have referred to that original understanding since 1991.
What concerned me is that the new book - Jesus the way, the truth, the life, in chapter 43 (which is basically the same as the Greatest Man book) , now drops the original explanation and highlights simply the need for us to make sacrifices.
Considering the book is all about Jesus, why have we completely dropped an excellent explanation giving an insight into some of what was involved in Jesus sacrifice.
What does this mean ? In the latest version of the Greatest Man book, "Jesus - The way, the truth , the life", page 111, which is part of chapter 43, after running basically similarly to the Greatest Man book, when it comes to Matthew 13 44-46, the book completely ignores the meaning quoted earlier, and hops over the an application, namely
"With both illustrations, Jesus highlights a person's willingness to make sacrifices for what is truly valuable". Jesus intended explanation, of the greatest sacrifice ever made is buried.
The meaning was there, but now it is gone. Does anyone know why ?
Comment by mailman on 2017-01-11 10:07:40
Last Sunday, I was conducting a bible study with my student. And you know what? We reached the Chapter when we had to take up 1914 as the start of the last days where Our Lord began ruling as King. I was in a bind. I told him to just read privately the Appendix where the bible chronology is presented. I did not care to even explain something that I myself, in my conscience, could not teach to this student without squirming. Now the next Chapter would be even more difficult because it would show the evidences we are in the last days. Any suggestions how to handle the situation when we meet again? :)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-01-11 10:44:36
If you truly believe that the 1914 doctrine is false, then you have an obligation to your Bible student to share your findings with him. You could present both views, and let the student make up his own mind. But only presenting one view, the JW one, would amount to an endorsement of it.
"The maxim is Qui tacet consentiret: the maxim of the law is "Silence gives consent"". - Sir Thomas More
There are times that we can remain hidden, and times when we have to take a stand. Imagine if you were not to tell the Bible student the understanding you now hold to be true. Imagine a few years down the road, when he finds out that you knew the truth and didn't share with him. How would he feel about you at that point in time? How would you feel about yourself?
Truly, the course of love is always to speak the truth when it is called for, and in the case of teaching someone the Bible, it is most definitely called for. This might result in persecution, but the end result is worth it. (Mark 10:29, 30)Reply by mailman on 2017-01-11 20:04:38
Thanks Meleti for your suggestions. I will consider them, reflect again, and pray that the Spirit guides me when the time comes. :)
Reply by Menrov on 2017-01-12 01:33:32
Mailman, in the end, the spirit will not make you do something. Acting is always a personal decision. How would you know if the spirit has not already "spoken" to you through the comments on this site for example? How would anyone in general see when the spirit has "spoken"? Saying that you need to wait until the spirit guides you, is a never ending wait in my view because when one is told to do something he does not like to do (or hear), that person will not follow that direction, even though that advice could have come from the spirit. If one knows what is true or correct or just, the person should act accordingly. If you know that what you are supposed to teach is not correct, just or true, what is holding you back to tell your student that knowledge? If the spirit has shown you what is just and correct with respect to that bible doctrine, is it not equally good to share that with your student?
Reply by mailman on 2017-01-15 01:47:21
Thanks for your straight-forward comments bro. Menrov. Eventually, I will be able to present alternative explanations in a tactful manner. Meantime, it would be best to focus on parts of the book with scriptural basis where I am more comfortable to discuss with the guy. :)
Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2017-02-15 05:39:44
I love the way you put this Menrov.
I would say that the Spirit speaks when your inner thoughts and will lines up with God's revealed will for you. Or -If our inner thoughts , motivations and intentions (the heart) matches up with the character of God as revealed through the Word -Jesus Christ.
Another Example i think is when we speak God breathed words to each other . If we are sincere then we will obey nudges to speak God's words to console a friend or serve others . When we learn the written word of God and we speak as our Lord would in a given situaton, putting our feelings on the back burner and acting as Christ would in that situation then I would say that the Spirit is leading or speaking ...
Or---
When you have a collective of seemingly "coincidences " and reach an "Aha" moment and you have the veracity of tesimony of others who can testify to that conclusion -that's the Spirit at work.We were made to depend on each other in times of tribulations . The church, us, continues to be persecuted and afflicted in various ways since the Day the tomb of our Lord was found empty.
This is a big question for me nowadays. I learned the hard way that saying things even like the Spirit is speaking or that you are a daughter of God or a part of a chosen people in the wrong setting around non religous or non spiritual people may creep certain people out:) But the church absolutely teaches this.
(Luke 18:8) ..."when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
The Spirit of the Lord moved you brothers to start this site despite the challenges. Look at the Fruitage of that decision :) I'm sure you have had the "don't step over into Macedonia" type experiences since starting up these sites.:)
Agape,
Gwit
Reply by lazarus on 2017-01-11 14:02:30
Hi Mailman, when I started to wake up to these matters, I did just what Meleti suggested. With my R.V's I started to slowly introduce an alternative explanation as well as the JW view on matters . It was awkward, but my relationship with them in particular with one has become stronger because of it. The husband likes reading the magazines. But it's amazing how it's opened up into a more honest discussion. Even his Catholic wife, who's not religious who now has more questions and loves hearing different explanations. The issue I have is finding them home :) something's never change.
Reply by mailman on 2017-01-11 20:06:35
Thanks Lazarus. I think offering alternative explanation sounds good. I am hoping a more honest discussion will ensue. After all, this is a bible study and the bible study aid should just be secondary. :)
Reply by tyhik on 2017-01-13 10:40:56
@mailman. First of all, thank you for your honesty.
Perhaps it would be good to ask from yourself, what is your real aim of teaching your student. Is it to bring him/her to God, or to "God's organization", or still something else. If you can clearly answer that then what to tell to your student, which study materials to use or not to use and all that will follow naturally.Reply by mailman on 2017-01-15 01:49:19
The first question would really need a deep reflection on my part. I really have to be discreet since the parents of this student are JWs in the province. :)
Comment by Thaddeus on 2017-01-11 12:03:33
Great comments brothers. Thank you.
Comment by Zugzwang on 2017-01-15 08:03:18
Off topic, I was in service today with an elder.. I still go in service but I only preach about what I can defend( that isn't much these days) we got into discussion and for some reason felt the need to divulge information about a scandal that occurred in the bethel Nigeria branch. It involved siphoning of funds from the orgs purse and diverting it to personal pursuits.. he claimed that over 65 percent of the bethel family had to be given the boot. We also had been expecting a broadcast from a Gb member last year but then a letter was read to the effect that the arrangement was cancelled .An elder told me that the Gb member actually arrived at Nigerian branch. I wondered why this cancellation was ok and figured it might have had something to do with the Gb members health. However today the elder told me that it was actually due to an even bigger scandal at the branch.He refused to tell me what it was saying that it might be detrimental to my faith.I am curious to know if anyone knows about these two incidents.Nigeria is third world and there is not a lot of information on anything.