Eschatology has proven to have great potential for misleading Christians. The interpretation of prophecies relating to the Last Days has been the basis by which countless false prophets and false Christs (false anointed ones) have misled the flock. This, despite Jesus’ firm and concise warning recorded by Matthew.
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. (Mt 24:23-28 ESV)
It is of particular interest that these verses are nestled within what many consider to be one of the most significant prophecies regarding the Last Days. Indeed, many have used Jesus’ words both before and after these verses to try to find signs in world events that would identify their period of time as the Last Days, yet here Jesus is telling us to beware of such attempts.
It is natural that humans would have a desire to know when the end will be. However, unscrupulous men can and have exploited that desire as a means to gain control over people. Jesus warned against lording it over the flock. (Mt 20:25-28) Those who have done so recognize the power of fear to influence and control others. Get people to believe you know something that involves not just their survival, but their everlasting happiness, and they will follow you to the ends of the earth, fearful that if they disobey you, they will suffer the consequences. (Acts 20:29; 2Co 11:19, 20)
Since false prophets and false anointed ones continue to misinterpret the Bible to claim that they can measure the length of the Last Days and predict the imminence of Christ’s return, it benefits us to examine such teachings as a counterpoint to what the Bible actually teaches. If we fail to understand the meaning of the Last Days, we open ourselves up to being misled, because, as Jesus said, such men "will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.” (Mt 24:24 NIV) Ignorance makes us vulnerable.
Over the past two hundred years, there have been many examples of misinterpreted eschatology leading to false predictions and disillusionment. There are many to chose from, but for the sake of expediency, I'll fall back on the one I know best. So let us examine briefly the teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses relating to the Last Days.
Current JW doctrine holds that Christ’s presence is different from his coming or advent. They believe that he took royal office in heaven in 1914. Thus, 1914 becomes the year in which the Last Days began. They believe that the events recorded at Matthew 24:4-14 are signs that we are in the Last Days of the current world. They also believe that the Last Days endure for only a single generation based on their understanding of Matthew 24:34.
“Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.” (Mt 24:34 BSB)
To get around the fact that 103 years have transpired since 1914, thereby surpassing any stretch one can reasonably make to the definition of “generation”, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have devised a new doctrine employing the concept of two overlapping generations, one covering the start of the Last Days and the other, their end.
Further to this, they restrict the application of “this generation” to those few who they believe are spirit anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses, currently numbering about 15,000, including the members of the Governing Body.
While Jesus said that ‘no one knows the day or hour’ of his return, and that it will come upon us at a time we think it not to be, Witness doctrine holds that we can measure the length of the Last Days based on the signs we see in the world and thus we can have a pretty good idea just how close the end really is. (Mt. 24:36, 42, 44)
Is that God's purpose in providing us with signs marking the Last Days? Did he intend it as a sort of yardstick? If not, then what is its purpose?
In partial answer, let us consider these words of warning by our Lord:
"A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign..." (Mt 12:39)[i]
The Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day had the Lord himself in their presence, yet they wanted more. They wanted a sign, even though there were signs all around them proving that Jesus was God's anointed Son. Those were not enough. They wanted something special. Christians down through the centuries have mimicked this attitude. Not content with Jesus’ words that he would come as a thief, they want to know the time of his coming, so they scrutinize the Scriptures looking to decode some hidden meaning that will give them a leg up on everyone else. They have searched in vain, however, as is evidenced by the many failed predictions of various Christian denominations right up to the present day. (Luke 12:39-42)
Now that we've seen to what use the Last Days have been put by various religious leaders, let us examine what the Bible actually says.
Peter and the Last Days
At Pentecost of 33 C.E., when the disciples of Christ first received the holy spirit, Peter was moved to tell the crowd witnessing that event that what they were seeing was in fulfillment of what the prophet Joel had written.
Then Peter stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people;
your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on My servants, both men and women,
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
(Acts 2:14-21 BSB)
From his words, we see clearly that Peter considered Joel’s words to have been fulfilled by those events at Pentecost. This means that the Last Days began in 33 C.E. Nevertheless, while the pouring out of God’s spirit on all kinds of flesh began in that year, there is no evidence that the rest of what Peter said in verses 19 and 20 also came to pass in his day, or since. Nor have many elements of the prophecy from which Peter is quoting been fulfilled even down to this day. (See Joel 2:28-3:21)
Are we to conclude from this that the Last Days he spoke of span two millennia of time?
Before drawing any conclusions, let us read what else Peter has to say regarding the Last Days.
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” (2Pe 3:3, 4 BSB)
8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found. (2Pe 3:8-10 BSB)
These verses do nothing to dispel the thought that the Last Days began at Pentecost and continue down to our day. Certainly the duration of time leads many to scoff and doubt the return of Christ is a future reality. Additionally, Peter’s inclusion of Psalm 90:4 is significant. Consider that his words were written around 64 C.E., just 30 years after Jesus’ resurrection. So mention of a thousand years in the context of the Last Days might have seemed incongruous to his immediate readers. However, we can now see in hindsight how prescient his warning truly was.
Do the other Christian writers say anything to contradict Peter’s words?
Paul and the Last Days
When Paul wrote to Timothy, he gave signs linked to the Last Days. He said:
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.
(2 Timothy 3:1-9 ESV)
Paul is foretelling the environment in the Christian congregation, not the world at large. Verses 6 through 9 make this clear. His words are eerily similar to what he wrote to the Romans about the Jews of the past. (See Romans 1:28-32) So the decay in the Christian congregation was nothing new. Jehovah’s pre-Christian people, the Jews, fell into the same pattern of behaviour. History shows us that the attitudes Paul reveals became prevalent in the early centuries of the Church and continue down to our day. So Paul’s addition to our knowledge of the conditions marking the Last Days continues to support the idea of a period of time starting at Pentecost of 33 C.E. and continuing down to our day.
James and the Last Days
James makes only one mention of the Last Days:
“Your gold and silver have rusted away, and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh. What you have stored up will be like a fire in the last days.” (Jas 5:3)
Here, James is not speaking of signs, but only that the Last Days include a time of judgment. He is paraphrasing Ezekiel 7:19 which reads:
“‘They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will become abhorrent to them. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them in the day of Jehovah’s fury….” (Eze 7:19)
Again, nothing here to indicate that the Last Days is other than what Peter indicated.
Daniel and the Last Days
While Daniel never uses the phrase, “last days”, a similar phrase—“the latter days”—appears twice in his book. First at Daniel 2:28 where it relates to the destruction of the Kingdoms of Man which will be destroyed at the end of the Last Days. The second reference is found at Daniel 10:14 which reads:
“and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. For the vision is for days yet to come.” (Daniel 10:14)
Reading from that point to the end of the book of Daniel, we can see that some of the events described precede the coming of Christ in the first century. So rather than this being a reference to the Last Days of the current system of things which ends at Armageddon, it would appear that—as Daniel 10:14 says—this all refers to the last days of the Jewish system of things which concluded in the first century.
Jesus and the Last Days
Those who would seek a sign in a vain attempt to foretell the coming of our Lord Jesus will likely balk at this. Some will argue that there are two periods of time defined in the Bible as the Last Days. They would argue that Peter’s words in Acts chapter 2 refer to the end of the Jewish system of things, but that a second period of time—a second “Last Days”—occurs prior to the coming of Christ. This requires them to impose a secondary fulfillment to Peter’s words which is not supported in Scripture. It also requires them to explain how these words were fulfilled prior to 70 C.E. when Jerusalem was destroyed:
“I will cause wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.” (Acts 2:19, 20)
But their challenge does not end there. They must also explain how in the second fulfillment of the Last Days, the words of Acts 2:17-19 are fulfilled. In our day, where are the prophesying daughters, and the visions of young men, and the dreams of old men, and the gifts of the spirit that were poured out in the first century?
These advocates for a two-fold fulfillment will, however, point to the parallel accounts of Jesus' words found at Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. These are often referred to by such religionists as the “Jesus’ prophecy about the signs of the Last Days.”
Is this an accurate moniker? Was Jesus giving us a means to measure the length of the Last Days? Does he even use the phrase “Last Days” in any one of these three accounts? Surprisingly, to many, the answer is No!
Not a Sign, but a Warning!
Some will still say, "But doesn’t Jesus tell us that the start of the last days will be marked by wars, pestilences, famines, and earthquakes?" The answer is no on two levels. First, he doesn’t use the term “Last Days” nor any related term. Second, he doesn’t say that wars, pestilences, famines, and earthquakes are signs of the start of the last days. Rather he says, these come before any sign.
“These things must happen, but the end is still to come.” (Mt 24:6 BSB)
“don't panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won't follow immediately.” (Mark 13:7 NLT)
“do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away." (Luke 21:9 NIV)
The worst pestilence of all time by any standard was the Black Death of the 14th Century. It followed the Hundred Years’ War. There were also famines during that time and earthquakes as well, since they occur regularly as part of natural tectonic plate movement. People thought the end of the world had arrived. Whenever there is a plague or an earthquake, some superstitious humans want to believe it is a punishment from God, or some sort of sign. Jesus is telling us not to be fooled by such things. As a matter of fact, he prefaces his prophetic answer to the three-part question posed by the disciples with the warning: “Look out that nobody misleads you….” (Mt 24:3, 4)
Nevertheless, diehard advocates of ‘signs foretelling the end’ will point to Matthew 24:34 as proof that he did give us a measuring stick: “this generation”. Was Jesus contradicting his own words found at Acts 1:7? There, he told the disciples that “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.” We know that our Lord never spoke untruth. So he would not contradict himself. Therefore, the generation that would see “all these things” must refer to something other than the coming of Christ; something they were allowed to know? The meaning of the generation of Matthew 24:34 was discussed in detail here. Summarizing those articles, we can say that "all these things” applies to what he said while in the temple. It was those pronouncements of doom that prompted the disciples' question in the first place. Evidently by the phrasing of their question, they thought the destruction of the temple and the coming of Christ were concurrent events, and Jesus couldn’t disabuse them of that notion without revealing some truth he was not yet authorized to impart.
Jesus spoke of wars, pestilences, earthquakes, famine, persecution, false prophets, false Christs, and the preaching of the good news. All these things have occurred throughout the past 2,000 years, so none of this does anything to undermine the understanding that the Last Days began in 33 C.E. and continues down to our day. Matthew 24:29-31 lists the signs that will presage the arrival of Christ, but we have yet to see them.
A Two-Millennia-Long Last Days
We might have difficulty with the concept of a period of time running for 2,000 years or more. But isn’t that the result of human thinking? Does it not stem from the hope or the belief that we can divine the times and dates that the Father has put under his exclusive authority, or as the NWT puts it, “under his jurisdiction”? Do not such ones fall into the category of those Jesus condemned as always “seeking for a sign”?
Jehovah has given Mankind a finite amount of time to practice self-determination. It has been a colossal failure and has resulted in horrific suffering and tragedy. While that time period may seem long to us, to God it is but six days in length. What of it if he designates the last third of that period, the final two days, as the “Last Days”. Once Christ died and was resurrected, then Satan could be judged and the Children of God could be gathered, and the clock marking the final days for the Kingdom of Man began to tick.
We are in the last days—have been since the start of the Christian congregation—and we are waiting patiently and expectantly for the arrival of Jesus, who will come suddenly as a thief in the night.
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[i] While Jesus was referring to the Jews of his day, and particularly to the Jewish religious leaders, thoughtful Jehovah’s Witnesses might see some uncomfortable parallels in these words. To begin with, they are taught that only spirit-anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses, which includes all members of their Governing Body, make up the generation Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:34. As for applying the term “adulterous” to this modern generation, it has recently come to light that these ones who claim to be part of the bride of Christ have—by their own standard of measure—committed spiritual adultery by becoming affiliated with the United Nations. As for the “seeking a sign” aspect of Jesus’ words, the start of this “spirit-anointed generation” is fixed in time based on their interpretation of signs occurring on and after 1914. Ignoring Jesus’ warning, they continue to look for signs down to this day as a means to establish the time of his coming.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Colette on 2017-06-01 18:56:37
Matthew 24 was the first chapter in the bible that taught me to think for myself. It is very easy to isolate vs 7&8 in the bible in their own paragraph and make it appear that Nationwide wars and earthquakes are a beginning of the sign of the last days. (Especially since world war 1 conveniently started in 1914. For many years, the JW's taught that the last days started in 1875 or thereabouts and that Armageddon would come in 1914. Rutherford changed the teaching to mark the start of the last days in 1914. The paragraph divisions in bibles are totally construed by humans.)
But if verses 7&8 are read as a whole from vs 4 to 12, it becomes apparent that Jesus is saying that there will be wars, earthquakes etc and we must not be alarmed for the end is not yet. Vs 23-26 Jesus again warns about false christs and prophets, and particularly those that say Jesus has come, but is invisible. Vs 27 Jesus himself gives us the sign of his presence.
When I was still misled as a 'good' JW, I sometimes mused about what I would do if I discovered that we are NOT living right at the end of the last days after all. And I would think that surely that would be a nightmare if such a thing were to happen. But then I concluded that I would still live a morally clean life and love God and neighbor, because these are things I want to do. Now that I have left and have come to the dreadful realization that I am doomed to grow old and die like every other human, I love Our Heavenly Father more than ever, and I follow His moral standards, not because I am told to or am fearful of imminent destruction, but because I want to.
It is just very sad how many religions have used fear of the end as a tool to control their people. I know some very sincere JW's who are terrified of leaving, just in case Armageddon does come. How sad. We have to trust Our Father, He is love. He trusts us and our love for Him, that we love Him because of who He is, not just because we are petrified of imminent destruction. When the end of this system is upon us, it will be as clear as lightning flashing from East to West. That is what Jesus said is the sign.
Comment by Mowani on 2017-06-02 09:36:29
Excellent article and analysis of the last days. Thank you Meleti.
The inclusion of Ps. 90 in 2. Pe. 3 is a very interesant thought.
I stumbled over your comment on Ro. 1:28-32. Why do you conclude that this was a description of the jewish system? I always thought that the entire chapter is a general description of ungodly men in general (see verse 13, 14). Also the cong. in Rome must have been composed of people from all kinds of pagan nations.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-06-05 12:59:32
Hi Mowani,
Good question. This came up in our weekly on-line Bible study. The reason I believe it applies to Jews is as follows:
In Acts, the phrase "the Jews" occurs 52 times! Often, the writer is not referring to the nation or the race as he does at Acts 10:22, but to a component within the nation that stood in opposition to the truth. (Some examples are: Acts 9:22, 23; 12:3, 11; 13:44, 50; 14:2, 4; 17:5, 13)
Now Paul opens his dissertation with:
"For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, 19 because what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them." - Ro 1:18, 19
Now it could be argued that he's referring to anyone who suppressed the truth, but going back through time, the truth was only held by Jews. The nations worshipped mythological beings. With that in mind, the next verses make sense if applied to the Jews.
"For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their senseless hearts became darkened. 22 Although claiming they were wise, they became foolish 23 and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and birds and four-footed creatures and reptiles." - Ro 1:21-23
The first thousand years of the nation of Israel, idolatry was a constant problem. Images were carved into the temple itself. There were male and female prostitutes.
This fits with vs 24-27. The qualities described in vs. 28-31 were the reason Jehovah brought about their destruction in 587 B.C.E.
The clincher is verse 32:
“. . .Although these know full well the righteous decree of God—that those practicing such things are deserving of death—they not only keep on doing them but also approve of those practicing them.” (Ro 1:32)
Only the Jews were privy to the righteous decrees of God, because out of all the nations, they alone were entrusted with the Law code handed down through Moses.
Here Paul shifts from the past tense to the present tense as a literary device to show that those of the past and those of the present are one. While Jews of his days would take exception to that, claiming they no longer worship idols, nor allowed prostitution, his point is that they really hadn't changed. They may have changed one type of sin for another, but in reality, they were the same. Not many years after Paul penned these words, that fact was demonstrated resoundingly when Jehovah again brought destruction upon the city.
Viewed in that context, the following chapters make more sense. Much of Paul's counsel is directed to Jewish converts.Reply by phantomofthekingdomhall on 2017-11-08 12:17:39
What kind of online Bible study are you having? How can one join? Best wishes
SamReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-11-08 13:27:04
I'll reply by private e-mail.
Reply by linkedken on 2018-02-04 18:11:09
Please kindly let me know also. I'm very much interested in participating Sir.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-06-02 12:45:39
Hi Meliti, an interesting subject to tackle. it is surprising how few references there are to the expression "last days". Jesus used the expression recorded in john 6 & 7 to the last day. Even its use in Acts 2:17 is not what Joel says in Joel 2:28, where last days (in Acts) is usually translated (also in NWT) "afterwards", or "after that". On this basis, it seems Peter simply applied the thoughts in Joel to the events around Pentecost in 33 CE.
So, I am not sure we can read the last days of this system into Peter's expression. That leaves very few other references, namely 2 Tim 3:1, James 5:3, 1 Peter 3:3 (and 1:5 which is close) plus two mentions by John to the last hour which he clearly applied to his day.
On this basis things will happen when they happen and there is remarkably little support for proving where we are in the stream of time. It all looks like wishful thinking, which is not why most of us came to be Jehovah's Witnesses.
Comment by Yehorakam on 2017-06-02 21:00:14
Some interesting hypotheses. I am in full agreement that history is full of failed human prophecies, because humans have tried to calculate a date without waiting for an event first. When Jesus spoke of the great tribulation to affect Jerusalem, he did not give a date, but gave an event that would indicate the beginning of the great tribulation on Jerusalem...which meant it was the "last days" for them. Jesus' disciples could have fiddled with numbers as much as they wanted, but they had to wait for an event...the surrounding of Jerusalem with Roman armies and the temple being violated. Then they would know that only 3 1/2 years remained until destruction. Until that event of being surrounded happened, they would have no idea where they were in the span of time and were to do best living the life of a Christian without a date in view.
You mention: "From his words, we see clearly that Peter considered Joel’s words to have been fulfilled by those events at Pentecost. This means that the Last Days began in 33 C.E." Caution must be taken in arriving at the conclusion that Peter always made a correct application of prophecy. He may have understood the prophecy, but it is possible he didn't understand what time period it would apply to. HS was not poured out on 'all kinds of people,' at that time. Only 120 Jews. As you have said, there were no signs in sun, moon and stars. The end did not come right after. So, either it was misapplication by Peter, or it was a prophecy that had only a minor fulfillment at that time and a more major fulfillment later on. I believe the latter. Just an example of how Peter understood a prophecy, but applied it incorrectly as to timing is at Acts 1:15-22 with the appointing of a 12th apostle. Without discernment, someone (ie: the GB) would think that Peter was 'inspired' to take action to replace Judas. In fact, it was the opposite. Peter was impetuous, failed to follow instructions of our Lord and made a wrong application of the prophecy to that time and place. In the end, our Lord ignored what happened and made his choice anyway with the apostle Paul.
I know you are against prophecies having two fulfillments, but here's just one for fun. The Elijah to come. Malachi 4 says he would come before the great fear inspiring day of Jehovah. Zechariah is told that his son John would have the "spirit of Elijah." When asked if he was this prophesied Elijah, John himself admitted 'I am not.' After John was already dead, Jesus said Elijah came (John) and then spoke of the future and explained that with his return/coming in kingdom glory there would be an 'Elijah to come' that would precede his return. Christ indicated that the prophecy in Malachi had two fulfillments, one with John and one accompanying his return in kingdom glory. Who would have thought? Revelation describes two prophets, one like Moses and one like Elijah that will prophesy for 3 1/2 years before the Lord's coming. That will be the greater fulfillment. God often does things 3 times to make a point.
Lastly, you mention: "Once Christ died and was resurrected, then Satan could be judged and the Children of God could be gathered, and the clock marking the final days for the Kingdom of Man began to tick."
Your statement appears to be contradicting a clear scriptural teaching:
(Matthew 13:30,39-43) "Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to GATHERING the wheat into my storehouse....The harvest (gathering) is a conclusion (end) of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected (gathered) and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."
(Matthew 24:29-31) . . .“Immediately after the tribulation of those days...the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven...and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will GATHER his chosen ones together."
(2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being GATHERED together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here."
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) . . .For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; . . .
To me it seems quite clear that the Children of God are not gathered until the end of the Great Tribulation. When Jesus comes at the final part of the great tribulation (trumpets 1-6) at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, he will be present, he will have come, he will gather his chosen ones, and Armageddon (the day of Jehovah) will commence.
Is there an event that will signal we are close to the end? (in the last days) If you do not believe in a more major fulfillment of Daniel's and Jesus' prophecies, then no, there is no signal. If your personal conviction is that their words will have a greater fulfillment, then yes. That is my conviction. The angel that spoke to Daniel said that the continual sacrifices at the temple in Jerusalem would be stopped. That is the crucial event. Without that event, nothing can be calculated. From that point on, there would be 3 1/2 years till the end of ALL things mentioned in the vision. That already tells us that not all was fulfilled in the 1rst century. So, the Jews will start sacrificing at the Temple in Jerusalem again. And, at some later point, a new world power will come upon Jerusalem and stop the sacrifices. The Jews have not yet even STARTED making sacrifices (although they are close), so no determination can be made as to timing of the end. But, it will be a shocker when they start making sacrifices again. That will tell us we are 'close.' Against the odds, it will happen. God's word does not fail. After, Jerusalem and its temple will be destroyed a third time. God often does things 3 times to make a point.
In the meantime, my feelings are that I should just carry on as a Christian regardless of what time period I might be living in. It has actually given me greater peace of mind and pleasure in serving God...out of love, not for a date. Collete's words about that were well spoken.
Much love,Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-06-03 00:20:17
Hi Yehorakam,
We have to bear in mind that the fact that everything Peter referred to didn't happen back then doesn't mean he was wrong. It does if we take the view that there is a minor and major fulfillment, but there is no basis to conclude a minor and major fulfillment. One reason I reject that idea is because it makes some of the things Peter says under inspiration wrong, and that cannot be.
All the words of Joel did not have to come true simultaneously. They only have to come true during the last days. So some of his words came true at the start of the last days, while others will come true when they end.
If one wants to believe that the physical political nation of Israel continues to have prophetic significance, then of course, one has to believe in the dual fulfillment of Joel's words. Having been misled countless times with JW typical and antitypical prophetic fulfillments that never were, I am unwilling to believe in a secondary fulfillment of any prophecy unless so stated explicitly in Scripture.
Reply by Yehorakam on 2017-06-07 02:24:34
I just thought I'd add that even the apostle Paul didn't always have the correct view of when prophecy would be fulfilled. In 1 Cor 15 he says: "WE will not all fall asleep in death....the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and WE will be changed."
In 1 Thess 4, Paul says "WE THE LIVING who survive to the presence of the Lord....we the living who are SURVIVING." In his personal views, Paul mistakenly thought the Lord would come in his lifetime. We know he was mistaken about timing. Those 2 accounts were written early in his ministry. Almost at the end of his ministry, about 15 years later as he is writing to Timothy, it appears the HS clarified the matter for him, that it wasn't in his time period. Why would I say that? It's funny because in the very verse you are writing about (2 Tim 3:1) Paul says: "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with WILL BE here. For men WILL BE lovers of themselves...." I checked the greek, and yes, Paul is referring to a future time. That's really hard to get around. If the last days had started with Jesus' ascension, Paul would have been in them. Instead, in his warning, he referred to these "last days" as being in the future.
Secondly, I don't think that a book written for human comprehension, describing a human situation by our loving Creator would try and explain the "last days" as actually being 2000 years long. I mean when Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promised HS, he said 'you will be baptized by HS not many days after this.' Were they to think this was symbolic? Cryptic? That it would mean not many mileniums later? I think not many days meant not many days. The Witnesses try and defend that we've been in the last days for the last 103 years. They turned days into a century. Shall we turn days into a millennium? They also say that 103 years is the "short" period of time left for Satan. The scriptures repeat over and over again the period of 1260 days (3 1/2 yrs) before Jesus parousia or coming. The scriptures actually count it in days. To me, 1260 days fits perfectly into the description of a "short period of time", the "last days" remaining for a world under the influence of Satan. When he is cast down, 'woe for the earth...he has come down with great anger.' That woe creates a situation that is incomparable to any time before it. And that leads to:
Third, if we examine human history and living conditions, as you say, our last century was no more worse than the century before it. I'm in full agreement. To me, there is no evidence to show things are so much worse than before, justifying the idea that we are now in the last days. By the same token, the last 2 milleniums (0-2000 C/E.) were no worse than the previous 4 milleniums (with the exception of the pre-flood situation). So, I can't consider the last 2,000 years to be last days either. Things did not become critical, hardly even turned up a notch. They weren't any worse than the ones before them. Paul said things in the last days would be "critical." Every century for the last 6,000 years has resembled all the other centuries. History repeats itself in cycles. Whether I am alive or not to witness it, my firm belief is that society will eventually be faced with a critical situation that compares to no other, something that is not a repeat of previous history, something worse than anything since the beginning of time. We need not worry about it or plan for it, for there is no guarantee we will see it in our lifetime. But it will come in the lifetime of someone. When that does happen, I don't think they will be wondering if they're in the last days.
I'm in full agreement that the GB have used their definition of the last days to scare the population, prompting them to stream to their organization seeking shelter. It's a teaching that benefits them, not others. Time will tell if during our lifetime things become "critical" as Paul said. No Christian can know for certain if it will come in his lifetime, so the best and only plan is one that worked for Christians for the last 2,000 years: enjoy life, plan on dying of old age while all the time following the direction of the HS and remaining faithful to the course Christ called us.
Much love,Reply by Colette on 2017-06-07 07:55:29
Dear Yehorakam
If I combine your and Meleti's standpoint - the Christian era started obviously with Christ. We are living in some sort of Christian epoch. Some call it the last days, the ransom has been paid and Satan's system is numbered.
I do agree that things are no worse than they were 1000, 2000 or longer ago, maybe even better. We are going to still be faced with the end of this system, right before its destruction, in which we will be faced with very critical times, signs in the heavens and the people living at that time will have no doubt that they are right at the end of life as we know it. A three and a half year long great tribulation perhaps?
They will then beat themselves with grief. As Jesus said, his presence with be as clear as lightning flashing from east to west. Lightning doesn't keep on flashing, what then would be the significance?
This of course leads to the question of why our Loving Father hasn't put an end to this system and all the accompanying suffering. I believe that He will only do so when mankind brings the earth to the brink, and God will then intervene to save some instead of allowing complete destruction. There is a lot of talk now of a third world war. Others are concerned about the nuclear radiation that is being continuously spewed into the ocean by Fukushima, Global warming, poisoning of our food with pesticides, and the list goes on.
Reply by linkedken on 2018-02-04 18:23:22
I simply love the flow of the conversations; very measured, respectful and up-building - even when disagreeing with each other.
Comment by Leben wir in den Letzten Tagen – Bruderinfo-aktuell on 2017-12-07 11:30:30
[…] Übersetzung eines Artikels von Meleti Vivlon (http://beroeans.study/2017/05/31/are-we-in-the-last-days) […]
Comment by messenger on 2018-05-11 02:45:11
Matthew 24:6 of the New World Translation reads, "You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet." The very next written word , which appears in verse seven is "for." And after saying "for" Christ goes on in describing nation rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom, food shortages, earthquakes, Christian persecutions and so on. Also note that Luke classifies most of those other calamities as disorders: when you hear of wars and disorders, do not be terrified. For these things must occur first, but the end does not occur immediately." Luke 21:9
Here is an exact word for word translation from Greek to English of the last part of verse six in Matthew chapter twenty-four and words in Matthew 24:7 "not yet is the end. will be raised For nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom."
Again, in the word for word Greek to English translation the word "for" is used after Christ first said in verse six that Christians would hear of wars, but the end is not yet. Does not the word "for" there mean the same thing as the word because? If Christ was saying "you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. (Because) nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom..." then wasn't Christ just describing in more detail the wars that he claimed in verse six would not be a sign of the end?
The word "for" definitely connects the ideas in verse six of Matthew twenty-four to the ideas in verse seven. Had Christ connected the ideas in those two verses with the word BUT, then I could understand someone believing those two verses don't talk about the same events. Even if the connecting word was AND I could see a person believing that, although that thought would not be my belief.
However, since Christ used a Greek word that is translated "for" then its very, very, and extremely obvious to me that he was connecting the ideas he spoke in verse six to the ideas he spoke about in verse seven as a further description of why he shared the ideas of verse six. And remember Christ claimed the ideas he shared in verse six were not a sign of the end.
Example: I'm going to the store, for my refrigerator is empty.
Means the same as: I'm going to the store, because my refrigerator is empty.
Watchtower and some other Christians claim the ideas in verse six are not connected in this way to the ideas in verse seven. But, according to way our English language works those verses are related to each other in this way. In verse seven Christ elaborates on things Christians would see that would not mark the coming of the end of the system. He continues to elaborate on those things not marking the end when he describes Christian persecutions, and even Christian family members turning on one another, or at least their family members (whether Christian or not is not stated) turning on them.
And as the author of our article states Christ was answering three separate questions. The first answer had to do exclusively with the destruction of the temple. Christ said the sign would be Jerusalem surrounded, or according to another writer, the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.
To find Christ's answer to the other two questions his disciples asked, when asking him for a sign, then look for the words sign in Christ's answer. He spoke of two signs in relating those other two answers.
A word to word Greek to English translation of a part of their question reads, "tell us, when these things will be; and what the sign of YOUR presence and the termination of the age?"
Go look up those answers yourself. Both those signs were stated quite clearly by Christ. Christ even used the words sign when answering
Comment by messenger on 2019-03-26 09:59:33
The scriptures in Matthew chapter 24 that relate to nation against nation, food shortages, earthquakes, the persecution of Christians and family betrayals are pretty easy to understand, if a reader reads the account without believing a biased interpretation they were taught by someone else. A biased one that WT taught us, which some other churches also subscribe to, most readers here are familiar with. WT got JWs to accept that interpretation of those scriptures by convincing us to accept its interpretation of Matt 24:45. After that we bought into all its other teachings, and we were required to in order to remain faithful Jehovah's Witnesses.
But in Matthew and Luke Christ said that those occurrences of trouble are not a sign of the end. The way he put it, when you see these things occur the end is not imminent. And at Luke 21:8 he said do not go after those proclaiming the end is upon us. So, why did he mention those things? So that Christians would not speculate the end is imminent while experiencing those troubles.
His comment about "this generation" that sees their deliverance is a little more difficult to figure. Our text's author sees it one way. I see it another. And I believe we are free in Christ to make our own determination. So here is my take on just who Christ meant "this generation" applies to.
First, let me remind readers that two separate questions were asked:
1. When will the temple be torn down?
2. What will be the sign of Christ's presence and the end of the age?
Notice that question #2 includes two things, Christ's presence, and the end of the age. Now, despite how those apostles might have associated those two things in their minds when they asked that question -whether Christ would come at the end of the Jewish system or the end of the world's system- what would be the most logical way for Christ to answer their question #2, to benefit ALL Christians down through the centuries? Irrespective of the fact that Christ began their conversation talking about the Jewish system, specifically its temple, I believe he answered question 2 concerning the worldly system. Because he wasn't returning when the Jewish system ended. Also, because of the writings of the prophets it is possible that at least some of the apostles understood their Messiah would rule the world after riding it of its governments (making up the worldly system).
Since the time period in answering question #1 would then occur during a different generation than the generation experiencing the events Christ brought out in his answer to questions 2, then "this generation either applies to question #1 or #2. It couldn't apply to both questions.
There are two reasons why I say it only applies to questions two. The first reason is that I've considered which answer Christ's immediate audience, those apostles, would be most interested in. I don't think we have to guess about that. Even though Christ spoke about the temple, his apostles would be most interested in him returning to rule as their promised Messiah. The second reason I believe he only applies "this generation" to his return is because of where he placed that statement in his discourse. He said it would be the generation that would see "all these things."Mark 13:29-31 Well what is included in "all these things?"
Christ proceeded that phrase discussing a tribulation that would be so great it was never experienced before, or would such a tribulation ever be experienced again. That didn't happen when Jerusalem was destroyed. But suppose someone argues it did to the Jewish people. Not likely considering what happened in WWII. Suppose someone argues it was the worst tribulation that would ever happen to the Jewish nation. Well after speaking about that great tribulation Christ also spoke of other things before he said, this generation that sees all these things. Included in these other events are special signs in the heavens and then a sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven. Also, Christ said he would send forth his angels to gather the chosen ones (his church) Matthew 24:31; also see Revelation 3:10
"This generation" would have to see "all these things" to be identified as the generation Christ referred to as "this generation." So, he wasn't giving the information so that people would be able to identify "this generation" by signs denoting the last days. Actually that would contradict all his parables teaching even his church wouldn't know the time of his return.
"This generation" would be identified ONLY by the people living who would experience ALL the events he described that proceeded that statement, including that great tribulation. Christ is telling those people, alive at that time, not to be overly terrified, because their salvation, by him, will be possible through that great tribulation and after it, if they have faith. The Bible claims in Revelation that many will curse God during this time because of those troubles. And mainly because they want to. But they don't have to. With faith they can make it through. See Revelation 7:14; and again look at Rev 3:10 (the GT is a trial or test, and tests can be passed).
Comment by Robert on 2019-09-17 05:25:07
Joel - 1 : 2, Alerts the elders and the inhabitants to pay attention to a phenomenon that will happen in the future, ( Our near future ). That phenomenon is first alluded to in vs 4, Locusts again in 6, " a nation" with teeth and jaws like a lion, & 7 - 20, it's handy work. V's 6 & 7 shows that the devastation is visited upon Jehovah's own possession, ( His people ). However the locusts with parts resembling a lion is not literal.
I should mention that In the past Jehovah on more than one occasion, raised up prophets to bring a message of judgment to his people, and Jehovah has on more than one occasion disciplined his people. Joel is one such individual. Why would we presume that Jehovah is without possessions ( people ) in modern times? This prophecy in Joel is a judgement message to Jehovah's witnesses in modern times.
This prophecy speaks of the agency that Jehovah will use to discipline and bring his people low or humiliate, or shame for stepping out of line. Joel - 2 : 26. That agent is also mentioned in Joel - 2 : 20 as the northerner. Eze - 38 : 3 - 6 informs us that Gog is from the remotest parts of the north, and as we know the King of the north is, you guessed it from the north too. Said agent is also known the "Chaldean."
Joel - 2 : 6 "Because of them, peoples will be in anguish.Every face will grow flushed"
In the group of verses at Luke -21 : 24 - 36 which is about the "Last Days" Words similar to Joel -2 ; 6 are seen in Luke -21 : 25.
My point is that Joel - 2 : 28 & 29 speaks to a time in our near future, and not exclusively to 33 CE, Why? Well prior to the gathering in the upper room, those Jews were not yet adopted spiritual Sons and Daughters of Jehovah, they became Sons and Daughters after they were anointed with holy spirit.
A similar phenomenon will take place in our near future "The last Days" as took place at Pentecost. However the outpouring of holy spirit will not be for the purpose of anointing due to the fact the "Sons and Daughters" mentioned in Joel are already anointed. Instead those will be moved to prophesy regarding the return of Christ.
The Watchtower will be no more, having outlived it's usefulness in Jehovah's purpose
Then the Sons of God ( The remnant, "the Two Witnesses" ) of Christ's return; will put the nations on notice preaching for the same length of time, Jesus preached. - Three and a half years, 1,260 days, 42 months.
The world will be judged by their response to the final message proclaimed by Jesus witnesses.
So far this is the best I've pieced together based on what I'm learning since going into the wilderness in 2002.
Comment by Leben wir in den Letzten Tagen - Bruderinfo-Aktuell on 2019-10-01 12:35:28
[…] Übersetzung eines Artikels von Meleti Vivlon (https://beroeans.study/2017/05/31/are-we-in-the-last-days) […]
Comment by Timothy Lawson on 2019-10-16 16:14:04
As strange as it may seem my below interpretation of “the generation that will not pass away” there is a linguistic and conceptual connection to the Transfiguration of Jesus as a vision of his coming in kingdom glory and does have merit.
SOME OF THOSE
STANDING HERE WILL NOT TASTE DEATH UNTIL...
Matt. 16: 28
"Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.”
This emphatically stated promise
of Jesus was fulfilled about a week later when Peter, James
and John saw Jesus transfigured. Preterists complain that
this is not much of a prophecy, since it was only about a
week later that it was fulfilled and so reject the transfiguration as a
fulfillment of Jesus' words. But a comparison of the synoptic gospel
accounts all record the transfiguration event after Jesus' affirmation that some would not die before seeing the Son of Man coming in kingdom glory. The immediate report of the transfiguration, in all three synoptic accounts, seems designed to point to the transfiguration as the fulfillment of Jesus' words.
In Jesus' prophecy/promise that some would not taste death until they see him coming in kingdom power, an affirmation by Jesus using the phrase "Truly I tell you" or "I tell you truly" precedes every instance recorded in the parallel accounts of the synoptic gospels as well as an the emphatic use of the double negative οὐ μὴ which may be translated as "by no means" but is not done so in the NWT-13 in these instances.
THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY
In speaking about the signs by which spiritually sharp eyed persons # (Luke 17:37) would be able to identify the time when the Son of Man was near at the door Matthew alone helps us to know
that it includes ALL the events Jesus mentioned. The events of Matthew 24:29-31 describes the actual event of Jesus coming with great power and glory and there will be no need for signs. It would seem that the event of Matt 24:15 telling of the disgusting thing which will stand in a holy place is also included in the "all these things" (v. 33) that will be seen and indicate that Jesus is near at
the door.
Strange as it may seem, it may be that it is the generation which sees ALL these things that is the one that will by no means (οὐ μὴ) pass away. The anointed who are on hand to actually SEE the disgusting thing standing in a holy place
may be the ones who best fit the description of the generation that will not pass away.
It is notable that all three accounts of the "generation" that will not pass away also contain the affirmation (Truly I tell you) and the emphatic double negative (οὐ μὴ) just as found in the "will not taste death" prophecy. So, though it may seem strange to link the generation that will by no means pass away to an event so close to Jesus' coming with great power and glory, it does have a possible parallel in Jesus' words that "Truly I tell you some of those standing here will by no means taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in kingdom power."
So just as those who would not
taste death before seeing the Son of Man, in vision, come in Kingdom power would not have to wait long before seeing that event, it may be that the generation that would not pass away would likewise not have to wait long before seeing the actual event of Jesus coming in kingdom power!
The above outlined thoughts would of course eliminate the argument that we must be close to the end because the overlapping generation of anointed are also advancing in age. And it eliminates any such time calculation because it would link the generation with those anointed who are alive to see the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.
If my analysis has merit then Jesus’ promise that that generation wouldn’t pass away until “all these things occur” (which includes the disgusting thing standing in a holy place, the outbreak of the great tribulation and the coming of Jesus to cut short the attack upon his holy ones) would strengthen the anointed on hand for that event that they would not be destroyed ignominiously by their enemies but rescued by Jesus.
#
A comparison of the injunction to flee when the disgusting thing is seen standing in a holy place of Matthew and Luke is enlightening. Though the events that cause the disgusting UN to stand in the so called "holy place" of Christendom and all other Babylonish religions will seem to be a reasonable military and political reaction to some threat to their sovereignty it will be a result of Jehovah putting this thought into the minds of the wild beast and the ten horns to carry out his will. The point is it that to ungodly mankind it will seem to be a purely human driven event. But note what Luke has to
say about it at Luke 17: 30-31 "It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 On that day let the person who is on the housetop but whose belongings are in the house not come down to pick these up, and likewise, the person out in the field must not return to the things behind."
The reason to flee is not stated at Luke 17:31 but it is clearly stated in Matt 24:15-17 as connected to the disgusting thing standing in a holy place.
That event will be understood by all with spiritual insight as the day that the Son of Man is to be revealed! At that moment he is truly near at the door!
Comment by busymountain on 2020-04-21 06:47:56
Interesting stuff here. Kudos to the researcher. It feels like I got real value from this. Helps me appreciate that there is life after the Watchtower.
Actually more like liberation after the WT.