Treasures from God"s Word and Digging for Spiritual Gems
Daniel 11:2 – Four Kings arose for the Persian Empire (dp 212-213 para 5-6)
The reference states that Cyrus the Great, Cambyses II and Darius I were the three kings and Xerxes was the fourth. The suggestion is that Bardiya who ruled 7 months or so and may have been a pretender was ignored by the prophecy. While Xerxes fulfilled the prophecy assigned to the fourth king, was Cyrus the Great the first King as claimed?
What does history, and more important, Daniel 11:1 indicate? This prophecy was given in the first year of Darius the Mede. While many historians dispute the existence of Darius the Mede, or some equate him with Cyrus himself, there is evidence that supports the conclusion that it may have been a throne name for either the General, Ugbaru, or a Median uncle of Cyrus. Whatever the case, while Darius the Mede was King of Babylon, Cyrus was already King of Persia[1], and had been for the previous 20 years. Therefore, when Daniel 11:2 states: "Look! There will yet be three kings standing up for Persia", this is referring to the future. Cyrus had already stood up for Persia, before the fall of Babylon to the Persians. Therefore, it makes logical sense that the three Kings before Xerxes, who would "rouse up everything against the kingdom of Greece", would start with Cambyses II, and include Bardiya, as well as Darius.
Daniel 12:3 – Who are "those having insight" and when do they "shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven"? (w13 7/15 13 para 16, endnote)
The claim is made that "the ones having insight" are the "anointed Christians", and they "shine as brightly as the stars in heaven" … "by sharing in the preaching work".
In Daniel 10:14 the angel says "And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days". The phrase, "your people", refers to Daniel's people, the Jewish nation, living after Daniel. Therefore, could "your people" refer to anointed Christians of the 19th to 21st century? No, the so-called anointed Christians in the late 1800"s and early 1900"s and onwards through to the present were almost exclusively non-Jewish. Therefore they could not be Daniel's "your people". Also what was "the final part of the days" referring to? Logically they were referring to the last days of Daniel's people, i.e. the first Century Jews, as they ceased to exist as a nation in 70CE.
Having established that "your people" were the Jews, and their "final part of the days" were the first century culminating in 70CE with the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea, and the enslavement of any survivors, who would be "those having insight"? Luke 10:16-22 would indicate that "those having insight" would be the ones to whom Jehovah revealed that Jesus was his appointed Messiah.
The meaning of the Hebrew words translated "the ones having insight" [Hebrew Strongs 7919] come from roots indicating ones that are prudent, give insight to others, and teach. "Shall shine" [Hebrew Strongs 2094] means to admonish, warn, enlighten, instruct. "Brightness" [Hebrew Strongs 2096] is light or brightness, and "the expanse" [Hebrew Strongs 7549] is the backdrop of the heavens. It is therefore a play on words in Hebrew/Aramaic, conveying the meaning that the prudent ones would enlighten and instruct and warn others, and in doing so would stand out in the same way as the stars do on the backdrop of the heavens at night. Those prudent enough to heed Jesus' words and believe in him as the promised Messiah were indeed prudent and did indeed warn others about Jerusalem"s impending destruction, and by their Christ-like actions, stood out as righteous individuals amongst the backdrop of wicked 1st century Jews. Even as Paul wrote in Philippians 2:15 -"you are shining as illuminators in the world (of a crooked and twisted generation)" by being "blameless and innocent".
Daniel 12:13 – In what way will Daniel stand up? (dp 315 para 18)
As the reference says, Daniel would stand up by being resurrected back to the earth. The Hebrew word translated "stand up" [Hebrew Strongs 5975] means to stand up, as the opposite to lying prostrate (as in one's grave). Daniel's "lot" was a division of land, a physical inheritance, the same sense as found in Psalm 37:11, so he would need to be resurrected to receive his "lot".
Video – Fortified by "the Prophetic Word"
Most of this was a refreshing change, providing indisputable evidence for the accuracy of Bible prophecy. That lasted until the 12:45 minute mark in the video, when they claimed Bible prophecies are currently being fulfilled, but did not say which ones. They also gave no support for this claim. However, it is very likely they were referring to the signs contained in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. This subject has been discussed many times on this site. Suffice to say that Matthew 24:23 warns us, "Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ" or "There!" do not believe it". Why? Jesus answered his own question a few verses later in Matthew 24:27: "For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be." Why would Jesus give this warning? Because Jesus knew many false prophets would say "There! Jesus has come invisibly. Believe us! You will see his invisible presence with the eye of faith if you join us!" Jesus made it clear that when he came and was present, his presence would be clearly seen by everyone. There would be no need for someone to say "Look", they would not be able to deny or ignore his presence, the same way that even when we are asleep or look away, we still know there is lightning when it flashes across the heavens and lights up the entire sky.
Congregation Book Study (kr chap. 19 para 8-18)
Why did it take the organization that claims to be God's organization over 100 years to start to improve and build better Kingdom Halls in many lands? The only equalizing that has taken place is the quality of the Kingdom Halls not the welfare of the brothers and sisters, who are still poor in many parts of the world.
Paragraph 10 indicates there was a need for 6,500 Kingdom halls worldwide in 2013, we wonder what the current need is, as they are selling Kingdom Halls in the USA, UK and other Western lands.
Paragraph 11 mentions that one man was impressed because all the workers building the Kingdom Hall were volunteers. It is unlikely this would be the case in western lands. Almost without exception projects in Western lands now have a reasonable amount of paid labour. This is due in great part to the fact that increasing regulation of the building industry requires certain skills to be performed by workers or firms with qualifications in these areas. As witnesses have been discouraged from obtaining qualifications by having further education, they are unable to fill the needs of the organization and instead money has been and continues to be spent on hiring expensive professionally qualified workers for various trades or parts thereof.[2]
Paragraph 14 states that the building of Kingdom Halls and so forth "add to the praise of Jehovah"s name", while the increasing scandal from the extremely poor handling of all cases of child sexual abuse is undermining completely any praise that may have gone to Jehovah and Jesus Christ.
We have to ask the following question on paragraph 18. How does the burgeoning property portfolio prove that God's Kingdom is real and ruling? All it proves is that the governing body are good at getting poor brothers and sisters to freely give of their time and resources to build a Kingdom Hall for the benefit of their own congregation, only for it to be given away to the organization and then sold from under their feet without them having any say in the matter. What a contrast in attitude between the organization and the King Jesus Christ they claim to serve. Luke 9:58 and Matthew 8:20 show that Jesus had nowhere to lay down his head, nor meet, compared with an organization holding billions of dollars in real estate.
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[1] According to the Nabonidus Chronicle, Ugbaru (Gobryas) was the governor of Gutium, the Darius the Mede of Daniel, who actually led Cyrus the Great's army that captured Babylon on 17/VII/17 of Nabonidus (October 539 BCE), then Cyrus entered Babylon on 3/VIII/17. Ugbaru, his co-ruler, installed governors in Babylon. According to the timeline of the Nabonidus Chronicle the [actual] king of Babylon was Ugbaru (even if he was not formally enthroned) during the period from 3/VIII/00 to 11/VIII/01 of Cyrus. [This would have given Ugbaru an accession year and a first regnal year, which does not contradict Daniel 11:1] Cyrus received the title of "King of Babylon" only after month X of the 1st year of his reign over Babylon.
[2] In the UK, these trades would include large site management, roadworks, electrical and plumbing installations, civil engineering (for geological and structural calculations), amongst others.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Thaddeus on 2017-10-12 19:57:07
"the same way that even when we are asleep or look away, we still know there is lightning when it flashes across the heavens and lights up the entire sky."
How is it possible to still know there is lightning when it flashes across the sky, EVEN WHEN WE ARE ASLEEP?
Just asking.Reply by Tadua on 2017-10-13 03:10:38
Thaddeus, Have you never been woken up or kept awake by the bright flashes of lightning, illuminating your bedroom, even with your eyes shut? It gives one cause to contemplate the power present in Jehovah’s creation.
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:21:18
When we're woken up then we're no longer asleep, are we?
I get the point being made though.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-10-10 05:52:20
Hi Tadua, thanks for your review. Many of us will have taken the interpretation of the King of the North and South and just accepted what the Daniel book has stated in the past, although with some reservations over the more "recent bits" of the prophecy. A lot of effort needs to be put in to examine these prophecies and compare commentaries just to see what sense can be made of them.
Thank you for giving us something to start with. I found Barnes notes quite interesting on the subject. What other places have we on this site found worthwhile to examine ?Reply by Tadua on 2017-10-15 05:38:56
Hi Leonardo
I have to admit I prefer just to read and re-read a portion of scripture without looking at any commentary’s. With the prophecies of Daniel, I then reread a general history of the first century, possibly some of Josephus.
For instance Daniel 7:19-27 and Daniel 11:25-45 seem to be talking about the same period, and it’s interesting to note that there were 10 kings or caesars, before Vespasian who was responsible for the Roman devastation of Galilee and Judea before leaving the final part of the campaign in the hands of his son Titus.(v21,24) with the three kings falling before him being Galba, Vitellius and Otho in 69ce called the year of the four emperors. Josephus also seems to have had a hand in putting about the story that Vespasian was the messiah, who would save the Jewish people if they accepted him. He was also different, the first 7 kings were all of the caesarean dynasty, he started a new dynasty of rulers of Rome. See Livius.org under Vespasian for a brief summary.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2017-10-11 05:29:56
Hi Tadua. Thanks for your first point on the three kings. Its like the word "more" has been completely overlooked. Why ? It does no harm to the fulfillment to acknowledge Bardiya and the possibility that he is one of the the three Kings which were to follow. Clearly Xerxes is the fourth king. Why is it so important to be dogmatic and state as facts things which are not (facts).
But then, we should all be used to this process as it happens time and again.Reply by Tadua on 2017-10-11 06:19:01
Leonardo
You make good valid points. Sadly if we try to raise this as an error, we would be told,
1) being presumptuous to criticise the governing body,
2) Jehovah will sort it in his time, we shouldn't run ahead of the FDS that he is using.
3) more rarely we might be told 'write to Brooklyn' and we all know it would be looked at and put in the 'apostate material' bin, without ever reaching the writing committee.Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-12 20:02:00
Write a letter directly to Jeffrey Jackson, addressed to him personally. He may or may not reply, but he will get it.
I have corresponded with Gerrit Loesch many times, and he always responds.
If you direct the letter to the writing dept of course they likely won't receive it.Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-10-12 21:16:06
You're just kidding-right?
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:12:35
No I'm not kidding.
Comment by Thaddeus on 2017-10-12 20:04:23
They're digging in the Hebrew Scriptures because at this point in our assigned Bible reading, we ARE IN the Hebrew Scriptures, namely, in the book of Daniel which speaks of the King of the North and king of the south.
Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-10-14 10:49:12
Nice thought Brain.
We all know how the weekly bible reading works. Start at Genesis and go to Revelation. But you make a good point regarding being a so-called "Christian" organization that really does not make an honest effort to understand and apply the NT.
Ray Franz covered this point saying that the reason is that WT is basically a "legalistic" organization, much like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. The better way that Christ explained does not fit into the Org's thinking......Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-10-15 08:43:55
Exactly!
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:30:21
It is certainly a very legalistic organization. The C.O. is visiting this week. His midweek meeting talk was about loyalty to the Organization. In it he actually accused the Congregation of harboring wrongdoers, went back to the law and used Lev. 5:1 (as usual) to instruct ones to go to the elders and tell what they know. He said "I'm not speaking in generalities, you know it's true."
That seemed a very odd way of handling it even if there is wrongdoing that he knows of. If he knows of it then he wouldn't need anyone to come forward. He admitted though that he has said the same thing to all Congregations in the circuit.
Very weird.
Reply by Warp Speed on 2017-10-15 16:44:42
Well said Brain. I especially agree with your point about the FDS. Indeed, if they claim to be the sole channel of communication then by all means, get ready to show some proof thereof!
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-10-16 12:30:13
I agree, IfIOnlyHadABrain. All that being said, every Christian religious organization will stand before the judgment seat of Christ, because--to use an analogy--they will have to answer to the owner of the franchise. :)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-10-16 12:33:43
They race through the Christian Scriptures because it would not go well were they to dwell on all those verses that speak only to the children of God.
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:19:05
Meleti they don't race through the Greek any faster than with the Hebrew. Its always approximately the same amount of Chapters.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2017-10-26 10:09:49
True, but the depth of meaning in the Greek requires a much slower pace. Maintaining the same pace results, IMHO, in a race. Much of the Hebrew deals with Jewish history and while that has its place for the Christian, the Greek gives us the mind of Christ.
Reading an historical account is all well and good when we go through the Hebrew, and so multiple chapters can be covered in a week, but in the Greek you have the sayings of the Christ and the counsel from men like Paul, Peter and James. In our weekly online bible study, we do well to finish a single chapter in a hour. yet Witnesses spend three years in the Hebrew (if memory serves) and one year in the Greek. Better to reverse that as the Greek have so much more to teach us than the Hebrew do. The trouble is that the Greek speak to the children of God, and too much time getting into the minutia of the Greek could lead to doctrinal confusion for those brought up with the notion that these Scriptures only apply to them "by extension."
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:15:10
That's a very good perspective, I would do well to adopt it myself. I guess I'm still having the delusion that others may see the errors and discrepancies in our doctrine.
Thanks for the reply.
Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-10-25 23:17:26
I see that the same amount of reading is assigned each week when we're in the Hebrew Scriptures as is when we're in the Greek. Its not as if they just run through it.
Comment by Dajo on 2017-10-14 19:24:23
Thanks for the review, unfortunately because of where I live I dont get to read them until a couple of days after the meeting, (Although that might not be a bad thing as no one can say I have had my opinion "coloured" ..by suggestion.
You pick up so many important points that make me realize I still look at a lot of things through JW spectacles. For example where you said about Dan 14:5 "your people" and "final part of the days". The gem about shining brightly and having insight etc.... this was a massive shakeup in the entire Jewish system and yes those that "had discernment were those that truly worked out who Jesus was. Of course it was referring to the 1st century. Whereas with my JW mindset it just washed right over...