I’ve just posted the video of my April 1st judicial hearing at the Aldershot congregation Kingdom hall in Burlington, Ontario, Canada as well as the followup appeal committee hearing. Both are very revealing about the true nature of the judicial process as practiced by Jehovah’s Witnesses and will prove quite shocking to those who might still believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses follow a Scriptural judicial process.
To view the video, click A Jehovah’s Witnesses Elder Tried for Apostasy.
Click here to download Lawyer’s Letter to Aldershot Elder Body.
Click here to download my Letter of Appeal to Branch.
Please, what was the result of the lawyers letter to the elders?
It did not dissuade them. It is very hard to sue a church in Canada and win. The government doesn’t want to open a can of worms and weaaken the protections afforded religions since confederation.
Most of the legal schmegal stuff here is over my head. Not disrespecting at all, it’s an important aspect to many and worthy of discussion. This I do understand. It would seem that many of ‘the faithful’ are looking outside the org for the conversations they hunger for and have stumbled upon sites like this. I personally tried to find those conversations, while sifting out anything that smelt bitter or attacking. I can honestly say I found more than I was looking for, which is currently challenging me. It would seem that there are a significant number of those like… Read more »
Welcome to our little community.
Thanks for having me 🙂
Eric four days ago I posted the following request on JWSurvey. However, that site held it in limbo until today (May, 22). After three attempts at posting it I sent a message to John Redwood, stating I know his site had received the post because I received a message of duplication when re-sending it, after seeing the first attempt didn’t post. Then I added to it and tried for a third attempt. No go with that one either. I asked John whether his site was extending their censorship guidelines beyond the ones they’ve posted. There was no response to that… Read more »
Thanks Messenger. I’ve had a few contributions come in which gave me enough to consult a human rights attorney. I’ll be meeting with Walter this weekend to discuss the next step. So I’d hold off until we know if it’s worth going further. I wouldn’t want the brothers contributing for legal expenses unless I can make legitimate use of the funds.
I so appreciate your support.
The Org often refers to the mock trial of Jesus by the Sanhedrin as the epitome of prejudice, bias, representative of the abuse of power and how those in authority can set aside justice where it seems expedient and there is a desire to bring about an outcome regardless of the degree of injustice in the proceedings. The Org publications have plenty of illustrations of this event with pictures of the high priest and others, depicted with their faces contorted in uncontrollable rage. The point is made how the personal desires of Jesus’ accusers over-rode their ability to see themselves… Read more »
There’s a supreme irony in all of this. They have become everything they claimed to be standing apart from. Initially, they were the anti-religion; a haven for people who had tired of organized religion. Since then, they have progressed into one of the most organized religions in existence and they are not about to let a little thing like justice stand in their way.
Eric, apply my recent donation to your legal defense against Watchtower.
Thank you so much, Messenger. I’ll be consulting a human rights lawyer on Tuesday, so we’ll see what is the best course of action within the Canadian judicial system.
You ‘re welcome Eric, and as always wishing the best for you.
Please make a note to yourself that all donations that I send in should be used for your legal expenses until your fight against WT is over
We are sincerely hoping for the very best possible outcome, dear Eric.
Times like these you must be also missing your wife and friends.
I watched the video and have been mulling it over for a few days now. On the one hand, I know you know the rules, and I’m pretty sure you realized you were trying to bend them by insisting that your witnesses be present throughout the hearing. As a former elder myself, I have never taken that clause in the elder’s manual to mean that witnesses can be present for the entire hearing, but only when necessary. But since the hearing never took place, you never really gave them the opportunity to proceed with the hearing in the manner in… Read more »
Yes, I was bending the rules, but they should have allowed them into the hall at the very least according to the regulations laid down in the KS book. We could’ve gone into the back room and they could’ve called witnesses in. The fact that they wouldn’t even let them into the hall–in fact not even on the property–told me they had no intention of permitting witnesses at all. The fact that they would not allow me my paper notes told me they didn’t want to hear from me. They wanted to ask me questions but they didn’t want to… Read more »
Had the elders had their own witnesses to testify against you, would they have been kept outside the hall? Definitely not. From the look of the hall it is a large one, witnesses could sit in the main hall while hearing takes places in the smaller rooms. As rightly said, the doorkeepers not even daring to ask committee member if Eric witness can be allowed into the main hall speaks volume, besides they had a key to the main entrance indicating the human security is not enough. The committee member had issues in that they can’t claim ignorance of your… Read more »
Eric my brother, every time I watch your video, I get so,so,so upset about how the org has 2 sets of rules one applies to us & the other applies to them. I truly admire your stand before them. In the reasoning from the scriptures under the subheading: How to Use “Reasoning From the Scriptures”. It says: “The pattern to follow in helping others to understand the Bible is that provided by Jesus Christ and his apostles. In answer to questions, Jesus quoted scriptures and at times used appropriate illustrations that would help honest-hearted persons to be receptive to what… Read more »
Excellent thoughts JamesBrown, and valid questions all. Of course, they refused to answer any such questions because they could not without revealing the shaky foundation upon which they are were basing their actions. They had a mission to carry out, one assigned to them by the branch office, and they were going to make it happen no matter what.
Hi, Eric: I hope my comment results in some good, and not just irritation. I can’t keep up with the articles on this web site. I restricted my previous comment to the lawyer’s letter. You brought up the Youtubes. I have run into this problem before on this web site, that to be prepared to intelligently comment on an article you need to have read other articles. I watched to the Youtube “My Judicial Committee – A Questioning Letter”. The Youtube illuminates the lawyer’s letter, showing that I was sometimes right and sometimes wrong in what I said before. Your… Read more »
Dear quib… That was a particularly articulate commentary presentation. Insightful.
“But you made it clear that you were a Witness by showing up for the committee meeting and saying that you were not disassociating yourself.“ I disagree. According to their own website a person can leave without writing an official letter. I chose that method of leaving and I no longer claim publicly on the website or on YouTube to be a Jehovah’s Witness. The reason I showed up to the meeting was not because I recognized their claim, I was a Jehovah’s Witness but rather because I wanted the opportunity to show them that disfellowshipping as they practice it… Read more »
I just read your response. I was surprised to see that you are against the secular governments ever yielding their rulership to churches in the way that they do. There are church web sites that give advice to ministers to avoid getting sued. The view of many churches is like that of Witnesses: you leave a church by either getting kicked out or writing a letter of resignation. In other words, their views are very similar to the WT’s, and they are always thinking about lawsuits. I don’t understand why you are suing JW’s alone instead of trying change Canadian… Read more »
[“In the end, religious groups are free to determine their own membership and rules,” Justice Malcolm Rowe wrote in the decision, adding that courts will not intervene in such matters unless it is necessary to resolve an underlying legal dispute.] an excerpt quote from the Wall case decision by Canada’s Supreme Court. Following is the case’s history as reported by Global News: “In a submission to the Court of Queen’s Bench, Wall said that his real estate clients — about half of whom belonged to Jehovah’s Witness congregations — refused to conduct business with him any longer. A judge concluded… Read more »
A man does not like the boy next door. He did something last year and has not apologised. He tells his son “Do not talk to him. If you do, I will disown you and you will be no part of my family”. The son has a choice. But not much of one. So he obeys. He then talks to the boy, and is disowned. He has to leave home. The man then tells the neighbours that his son has been disobedient and has left home, but the door is always open for him to come back. However, you must… Read more »
shudder Leonardo, what an outstanding illustration.
My POMO husband just said about how Eric was treated – as are so many fine Christians..” What a bunch of (edit) ..um, BANANAS”.
Glad you liked that Eric.
Gotta laugh at times. SO unbelievably pathetic “witch-hunt”!
Glad you had a laugh Eric. You gotta laugh at these goons – unbelievable pathetic” witch hunt”.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Leonardo.
I mean no disrespect, Messenger, but I was present for my baptismal talk and you weren’t. I was baptized a number of years before you and attended meetings off and on from the mid 1950s. If you find a print copy of the Awake from the ‘70s, you will see that the magazine says that it’s non-denominational. Actually, I believe that persisted into the ‘80s or even the ‘90s. JWs didn’t consider themselves a religion well past the years of Rutherford, not to mention Russell.
Chet, The only thing that matters here, in what we’re discussing, is the law. Or, are we just having a discussion about opinions? There are church groups that I know of right around my home that call themselves nondenominational. That claim won’t get you a two dollar hot dog on a court house step. Inside a court room those so-called nondenominational churches will be recognized as having the same rights as the ones claiming a denomination. And guess what? WT will argue that it is a denomination in a court case, if it feels the claim is beneficial. WT has… Read more »
How about just simply call them Evil Slave Class Inc. Done.
We are discussing law, but this is not a court of law. Obviously, any attorney considering taking on a case such as Eric’s would research and certainly look for precedents. I believe that the JW Org has been successfully sued in the past for their judicial practices. Any organization that size will have gone through numerous suits and almost certainly lost at least some of them. Their judicial practices do not meet the standards of British Common Law, presumption of innocence, etc. and if it can be proven that they’ve caused harm it becomes legally actionable. One thing I liked… Read more »
*** w55 7/1 p. 411 par. 15 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***
A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.
There was another quote I ran across which I cannot find at the moment which reiterated this belief into the mid 60s which covers me who was baptised in 1963.
Eric, There are several huge problems if you try arguing in court, based on those WT articles, that you were never part of Jehovah’s Witnesses, The Christian Congregation Of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Watchtower, or what ever name the Society takes on . I will just explain two of the problems. In a court case it will be very difficult in your successfully hurdling the first issue and impossible hurdling the second, shy an act of God. The first issue has to do with contract law. In contract law even with a written contract, if provisions within the contract are changed through… Read more »
Actually, my issue is not with their right to remove membership status. As the Hall case proved, every religion has that right and the governments of the world do not want to get involved in it. But I wasn’t a member. By their own public statement, I am allowed to leave unmolested. How can you revoke my membership if I’m not a member? I know of people who have written in who left the organization 10 years ago, 20 years ago, even 30 years ago. They have not associated in all that time and do not consider themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses… Read more »
Eric, See Eric I agree that WT is doing what you stated they are doing. But the fact that WT is apostate and is doing everything you claim, I just don’t believe will help you in court. The Canadian Supreme Court most likely will not hear your case. And that’s where WT will take it, should you prevail in a lower court. Your Supreme Court doesn’t want to open the floodgate’s, as Alithia expresses it, of GETTING INVOLVED in religious matters. All the lawyers from different denomination that commented at Wall’s hearing were not there because WT asked them to… Read more »
Hello all and especially Chet. Chet I get what you are saying about JWs being non-denominational etc. I think it is only those who are older and of a certain vintage who can recall what you say. I think what you are saying is true, however it is the old oral law versus the underlying real law of the Org that creates the illusion and the confusion of freedom and unity under the Christ and not some man made organisation. I do clearly remember when I was a nipper that if we were asked what religion we were we would… Read more »
I remember all of that Alithia. I even remember a time in the 60s when we used to refer to the service arrangements as rendezvous’s for fear that we would be giving away information in the event of persecution. But you’re right, it’s hard to prove any of this stuff or to make a good case in a court of law. But I have some ideas that might effect change. A way of attacking them from a different angle, something they wouldn’t expect. I am working on it with legal counsel and hope to have something in the next few… Read more »
I JUST POSTED THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS ON JWSURVEY. IF I GET A RESPONSE I’LL POST IT HERE. The owner of JWfacts has done nice research also. I have never posted on his site. But if any of you have it might be advantageous to ask him the same questions. One of the researchers and primary article writers on JWSurvey is now being threatened with the exact same thing Eric was. Like Eric he has not attended a Kingdom Hall for 4 years, nor has he been in contact with their members. Here is my post on JWSurvey. I sent it… Read more »
Hello Messenger, I am not sure exactly what the point is regarding your questions. Are they because you think it is a waste of time to threaten legal action, and so one should just accept the inevitable outcomes? It may be good to review the 4 hour Canada full court trial of Wall versus the congregation that disfellowshipped him. It failed because of the action taken by Mr Wall. His reason was that he was denied a proper judicial review and procedural fairness regarding his judicial case. Not a wise approach I think. Watching his defence he was shot down… Read more »
Every generation of reply becomes narrower, which becomes impractical for comments beyond a sentence or two, so I’ll respond to Alithia’s comment with a fresh post. That’s exactly the point. Considering the many changes in disfellowshipping announcements, I’m certain that the org has lost suits over this matter, and likely on many occasions. There’s a lot of gray area here, because defining what it means to belong to the JWs is like nailing Jello to a wall. My contention, based upon the wording I’ve heard in numerous baptism talks previous to 1985, is that none of us baptized in that… Read more »
Chet the very very early teaching of WT was that it was non-denominational. That was way back when Russel was alive. Any other verbal reference to denominations by WT is only because sanctimonious WT believes the only Christians acceptable to Christ are active Jehovah’s Witnesses. So, you heard them using the term Christian denominations in the same way WT uses the term Christendom. In other words it meant apostate Christian organizations. But if Jehovah’s Witnesses are not legally a denomination no church group is. A law court is not going to interpret denomination in the same bull-crap way WT spun… Read more »
Thank Chet beautifully written and expressed I get it now and agree with all you say.
Thanks from Alithia.
Hey Chet, very interesting observations and history knowledge. Appreciate your insights… Maybe, just maybe a few more paragraphs, and if possible, a little shorter???
Alithia, of course you understand the point of my inquiries. The point is to win as stated in the questions. As for the Wall case, you say he lost in the first 5 minutes based on his cause of action (which was he didn’t receive a fair trial)? Well that cause of action Wall had is listed in Eric’s lawyer’s letter as Eric’s position. And since that position has already been litigated and defeated in Canada, precedent has been set for bringing a case against WT on those grounds. No doubt WT’s attorney will cite that precedent, and also the… Read more »
I get what you mean now and I see clearly the points you make and how true you are about lawyers. Well the thing about law is that it is heavily based on precedent. But there are always landmark cases where precedent is overturned and there is change. So let’s see if the Spirit leads there.
Love from Althia to all.
My first reply from JWSurvey to those two questions. The answer came from an inactive JW who served many years as a JW elder: Big B says: May 12, 2019 at 9:06 pm Answer to #1: No. The Watchtower brings out their literature showing their procedures of handling misconduct and says that everyone knows their procedures before baptism. Thus the courts dismiss the charges brought by disfellowshipped ones. Answer to #2: No. I have never heard of such a case. Most inactive ones are left alone unless, of course, they promote “apostasy” then they may be disfellowshipped. However, I think… Read more »
First reply to those questions from Survey. Big B is inactive and has served as an elder for many years. He believes WT is the evil slave. Big B says: May 12, 2019 at 9:06 pm Answer to #1: No. The Watchtower brings out their literature showing their procedures of handling misconduct and says that everyone knows their procedures before baptism. Thus the courts dismiss the charges brought by disfellowshipped ones. Answer to #2: No. I have never heard of such a case. Most inactive ones are left alone unless, of course, they promote “apostasy” then they may be disfellowshipped.… Read more »
For the record: MVEW did exactly what any “true hearted” disciple of Christ would have done, Go stand trial and face the veil of charges presented against him. (Is 41:10 and 13). I said it before down below, MVEW showed no fear, he was not hiding himself like some here have suggested doing. People forget they are hiding, Eric did not hide, so therefore had nothing to forget. Five stars across each shoulder is what he walked in with and walked out with two more, one at the end of his left collar and one on his Right! (Heb 3:1and2)**… Read more »
Some here might be hiding Psalmbee. I don’t know. But not to comply with a WT summons to attend a judicial hearing is not hiding. I do know some here have stated that is what they would have done. Others said they would never write a disassociation letter. And why would that be hiding either? I live in the USA. If the Chinese government ordered me to do something, while I was never in China, then I would not feel compelled to do it, while not believing I was hiding. If we as Jehovah’s Witnesses, that is if we continue… Read more »
It could also be that those insiders have an atheistic worldview at the moment. If so, it wouldn’t be a tricky situation for them. But indeed, if you are an awoken Christian, it is a dangerous situation.
Helanren, You have a valid point. And I am quite sure a correct one. From interacting with others on another site I found some ex-WT elders who became atheists. And they were not disfellowshipped first. They walked away because they lost faith. So there also must be current WT elders that are atheists. If I found some, there have to be more. Jehovah is grooming all of us for the future. Part of learning what God wants us to learn, is learning how to deal with all situations in HIS way. We are learning from every experience. Our exposure to… Read more »
Chet and Eric, My previous comment centered on how courts in the USA have ruled on the matter of disfellowshipping by WT (to the best of my knowledge); how most Jehovah’s Witnesses view this matter of who can be disfellowshipped ; and how the WT organization viewed the matter in the 1950’s thru this present day. I was baptized as an adult in August of 1976. I started studying a bit over a year before that. It wasn’t because of the 1975 hype. I didn’t know about that until I read about it in a WT. And I believe I… Read more »
President should say precedent
Eric, I couldn’t help but think of you when I saw this out of the July 2019 WT Study article “Prepare Now for Persecution” under the subheading “How To Cope With Hatred From Men”: “Jesus was not saying that Christians would enjoy being hated. Instead, he was being realistic. We are no part of the world. We live according to Jesus’ teachings and preach the message that he preached. As a result, the world hates us. (Read John 15:18-21.) We want to please Jehovah. If men hate us because we love our Father, that is their problem. Never allow anything… Read more »
Hello Quibusdam and all. Quib I have some criticism of your criticism of the way Eric has gone about dealing with the “invitation” to attend a judicial hearing around what appears to be accusations of apostasy. I am not necessarily endorsing Eric’s strategy, however; Firstly I fail to see how you so casually and easily reconcile having 6 or more burly “guards” at the entrances, key only access to the kingdom hall, and 2 very large vans blockading the entrance to the kingdom hall? I would consider this to be more than sufficient to prevent a regular news channel van… Read more »
OOh, Electric blue! My favorite. But no one drives the Lambo, but me. Sorry, I can be a little selfish. Well, maybe only for an hour or two. ???
The YouTube videos don’t even have adds, so some major sponsors would certainly solve the revenue problem. ? But, like you said in another comment, mentioning material loss arouses the interest of the courts. Btw, I haven’t commended you yet, Eric! I hope I will be as calm as you when my time to defend Christ has come (I still live at home, so I’m looking for a suitable moment. I still hope that I can wake up my parents, but that will be very hard, if not impossible…). Thanks for everything you have done until know, and will be… Read more »
I don’t have much time, but I thought I should reply at least a little to the people who addressed comments to me. If you read what I wrote again, I think you will see that I said that I wanted politics out of religion, not religion out of politics. The morality of the Western world is changing, for example, a growing number of people believe that alcoholics are sick people who need treatment, not sinners and that sex acts prohibited by the Bible aren’t sin. A state-run church will prevent churches from declaring legal acts as sins. As I… Read more »
I went to your link site and didn’t see any cases cited on that page showing where anyone in any church sued and won for being ex-communicated. Did I miss something with my quick read? Or is your claim that those cases exist just a statement with no evidence backing it?
Your link did state this, “While many churches have a clear notion of leaving the church others don’t really recognize this. Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses can have problems leaving a church without being excommunicated (disfellowshipped).”
Hi, messenger. I think that most people who visit web sites like this think only in terms of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The courts are accustomed to church-discipline lawsuits arising from many denominations. I hoped that some people would read web sites like the one I linked to see that Witnesses are in the same boat as a lot of other denominations. Read the paragraph that preceded my link again. The web site I linked to is large, and there is a link called “apostasy” on the left column. Here is a famous case, Guinn v. Church of Christ of Collinsville: https://newsok.com/article/2061322/390000-awarded-in-church-lawsuit… Read more »
HI, messenger. I can’t find some cases I’ve read about and will not be visiting this web site for a few days. But you may be interested the court cases mentioned here: https://www.mormonmatters.org/is-wrongful-excommunication-legally-redressable/ The footnotes mention some Witness court cases. This Mennonite case concerned shunning: https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/supreme-court/1975/462-pa-330-0.html Some Witness court cases are mentioned online. This case concerns the decision to treat disassociated people like disfellowshipped people, publicized in the September 15, 1981, Watchtower. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/819/875/245063/ Norman Hancock resigned from the Mormon Church, but was excommunicated anyway. Supposedly the Mormon Church settled the case for a large amount of money to keep it… Read more »
I don’t know enough about the background of all this and can’t keep up with the articles. But I have some criticism. Eric, the lawyer’s letter says that the Kingdom Hall had a blockaded parking lot and four guards. It says that your two companions were denied access and that you were advised to remove your jacket and forfeit your paper notes. I suggest a simple reason for all this: The WT legal department advised the elders that you might be looking for grounds to sue. The fact that you recorded them and got a lawyer confirms that their suspicions… Read more »
If the elders involved had operated ethically, there would be no grounds for a suit. In the over thirty years that I was active, I saw plenty of committee actions and from about 1980 onward, it became obvious that the judicial process in the congregations had become something they did not want exposed to the glare of publicity. Procedures trod upon the most basic human rights of the defendants and actions were frequently arbitrary, or politically motivated. My personal opinion is that these arrangements deserve none of my respect. I would never write a letter of disassociation because that would… Read more »
Chet, I was baptized before the eighties, and before the eighties it was understood by the WT organization and its individual members that all members baptized by Jehovah’s Witnesses were part of that organization. That’s the only reason elders and WT exercised authority over people. WT never attempted to exercise authority over anyone except baptized members, with the exception of also removing unbaptized publishers from that position if it saw fit. You can state how you viewed matters, but your personal opinion about that would not win you a court battle if you ever decide to engage in one over… Read more »
“You can not get kicked out of an organization you don’t belong to.” Agreed, and that goes to the heart of my argument. I left 4 years ago, and am not a member, even by their published policy, so by what right do they disfellowship me in an attempt to cut me off from all JWs around the world?
It was very distinctly stated at the time of my baptism that I was being baptized as a Non-Denominational Christian. There was no membership implied and this was the position of the Society at that time. They began to change this policy in the eighties because their disfellowshipping policies were not legally defensible. There was a time when I would state that I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I never thought of that as stating I was a member of any organization. At that time, I understood Isaiah 43:10 to apply to my preaching work and I used the… Read more »
Chet and Messenger, fine comments. Messenger is correct, but Chet, you reflect how we all felt. When I got baptised in the 1970s, it was put to me “What have you got to lose”. Little did I know. All I wanted was to be guided by God and his word through what I thought was Jehovah and Jesus Christ’s arrangement. Only when the 1981 Watchtower articles on disfellowshipping came out, did I really find out what JWs position was. It had not been so tough in the years before. If a person sinned, they sinned, and were disfellowshipped. I just… Read more »
Chet, I am trying to reply a little to people who responded to me. When I was a teenager, I attended meetings in 1968 and 1969 in a small congregation. Several people were disfellowshipped during that short time. My family moved to another state. People were regularly disfellowshipped there, too. I was baptized in 1971 I agreed to whatever questions were asked (from the “Lamp” book, I think). I was nervous because even as a teenager I rejected WT typologies. I was afraid I would be asked if I agreed with EVERYTHING. But it didn’t happen. And I was baptized.… Read more »
quibusdam, I never got the chance to tell the committee exactly what I’ve been doing. As you saw, I never met with them for the reasons I outlined in the video. Additionally, I only found out the reason for the disfellowshipping over the phone. They were not interested in that point about my reasons, nor was I prepared to discuss them over the phone. It is so easy to armchair quarterback things like this, but in the heat of the moment, one does the best one can. I don’t have followers, I have viewers. A very important distinction and I’d… Read more »
I don’t have much time, but I thought I should respond at least a little. I only watched a part of one or two videos because of lack of time. I tried to cover that by my first words: “I don’t know enough about the background of all this and can’t keep up with the articles…” I will try to watch them thoroughly when I can. I am glad to learn that you don’t make money on the Youtubes. You have explained in the past that you make little or nothing on the web site. That is why I was… Read more »
“If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!” – Matthew 6:23
Describes the JW organization perfectly. They think they have the light, but their “children” prove otherwise Luke 7:35.
Thank you for taking the time to create this video and shine the light on the Watchtower Organization
Eric, I am so very proud to see how you and your friends were able to keep your composure in the face of such an obvious miscarriage of justice. If this video enables even just one person to wake up and start to exercise their critical thinking skills, the experience will be well worth the stress gone through in order to produce it. On the one hand, it is sad that your disfellowshipping may now sever relationships with some close friends that desire to remain loyal to the organization. And for those that don’t know you, it will tarnish on… Read more »
Ezekiel 34 Message Bible When the Sheep Get Scattered 34 1-6 God’s Message came to me: “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherd-leaders of Israel. Yes, prophesy! Tell those shepherds, ‘God, the Master, says: Doom to you shepherds of Israel, feeding your own mouths! Aren’t shepherds supposed to feed sheep? You drink the milk, you make clothes from the wool, you roast the lambs, but you don’t feed the sheep. You don’t build up the weak ones, don’t heal the sick, don’t doctor the injured, don’t go after the strays, don’t look for the lost. You bully and badger them.… Read more »
Eric, Oh, if only brothers and sisters could see that video ! You have fought a fine fight with everything you have..truth. How evasive can they be ! Strange private meeting, considering how the Israelite elders conducted matters at the city gates, while Matthew 18 and Paul’s words to the Corinthians changed nothing in principle of the former ways – things should be dealt with openly and honestly. You made that point . Looking at the bunch outside, I would have been in serious fear for my very health life had I gone in on my own. Its a bad… Read more »
Those elders and guards knew what was in their elders manual. It didn’t matter to them. Once a Jehovah’s Witness is viewed as taking a stand against their organization then Watchtower’s servants view that person in the same way a KKK member views a Black man. He is below their level, and there is nothing he can say or do except kiss back up to WT authority again to redeem himself. And even then they will make sure he pays a price for his misbehavior. If they perceive he is not going to miss back up to WT authority, then… Read more »
the word “miss” should read KISS
Well said, Messenger
Hi Eric You have become a martyr. The definition of martyr: A person who suffers very much or is killed because of their religious or political beliefs, and is often admired because of it. The org doesn’t know just how much damage they have done to themselves. Let me explain There is no video on YouTube that I have come across of someone who has been mistreated by JW’s producer’s like this one Eric. Well done. I will NEVER appear before a judicial committee, now that I have seen this. Could you imagine if you wanted to push this further… Read more »
That’s actually a pretty good idea, JamesBrown.
I want to share this quote from Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me). “When you do something that harms others- get them in trouble, verbally abuse them or punch them out- a powerful new factor comes into play: the need to justify what you did. Take a boy who goes along with a group of his fellow seventh graders who are taunting and bullying a weaker kid who did them no harm. The boy likes being part of the gang but his heart really isn’t in the bullying. Later, he feels some dissonance about what he did. “How can… Read more »
That’s very insightful.
It is evident that these ones are servants of neither the Our Lord Jesus or his Father. I cannot imagine them ever receiving the the commendation of “Well done thou good and faithful servant” I will put you over many things . This “brand” of loyalty cannot even possibly be mistaken for the works of those who love the “True Master of Life” . Well done Eric, may the freedom of Our precious Lord never be hidden .
Thanks Poetry, and best regards dear friend.
Eric, I am glad (and not at all surprised) that you stood your ground and did not let these bullies coerce you into submitting to their self-perceived “authority”. I was flabbergasted to see the level of intimidation ( blocked parking lot and multiple “guards” – what is this organization coming to??) that was employed. I can only surmise that the intent of this “show of force” was to instill a sense of uncertainty and fear in you – to weaken your position. Attempting any form of reason with the judicial committee members or the goons at the door must have… Read more »
I watched this travesty and my heart went out to you Eric. That was not easy to go through and your patience and love was obvious to all. The level of fear on the part of our “brothers” was off the charts. I know they are just following orders, the command had come down to disfellowship Eric. Not give a fair trial or allow him to defend himself, just disfellowship him. When Ray Franz was disfellowshipped it was pretty much the same. Brothers telling him that it didn’t matter what he said. The perversion of justice continues. Shows the organizations… Read more »
Good point, Pekanman. “No natural affection”. Thank you.
A true sign that we are in the last days.
understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good, 4traitorous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power.
Need we say more
Well that was a gripping watch!! Massive well done to you and your friends.???
They are really fulfilling their own prophecy when they say false religion will turn on true religion. They being the false religion and you representing the true. Take care of yourself ?
Just showing the video to family who are not witnesses . We are so surprised how hard the Jehovah’s Witnesses faces are looking. No feeling in them , no love, no concern and definitely breaking all their rules from their book. It could be the case they do not know what is in their book. ?
“The wording in the baptism talk probably did change because of the lawsuits. But the reason was to make it even easier for WT to win disfellowshipping cases that are filed. At least that’s what appears to be so in the USA. Because I am not aware of them losing any case against people who were baptized under the old baptism language, are you?” If a lawsuit goes through the entire process, to the point of a verdict, it becomes a matter of public record. Very few civil cases go that far because the defending organizations are capable of doing… Read more »
Also, Christian love and hugs to those friends who stood with you.
You remind of Jesus even when he was nailed to the stake, he took the time to look after his “mother / sister” Mary.
Your teaching and the ability to explain scriptures, even though your heart is bleeding & heart, is highly respected my brother.
Well done Eric
Thank you, JamesBrown.
Wow! The world of Jehovah’s Witnesses has a certainly changed. The parking lot blocked, numerous guards, the elders staying out of sight; had I heard of such things back in the early ‘70s, I would not have believed it possible. Of course, had I known the true nature of this organization at that time, I probably would have avoided them altogether. I haven’t set foot in a Kingdom Hall in some number of years, but I have heard that locked doors are now Standard Operating Procedure, even for regular congregation meetings. One thing I find striking is the number of… Read more »
Excellent comment, Chet. I particularly appreciate your sharing your knowledge about the three types of power. That helps put things into perspective.
That was a revealing piece I read on the subject and I’ve found that it seems to fit much of what is happening in the world today. These guys have nothing left, except to stamp their feet and insist upon loyalty, compliance and support. In the meantime, their support base is eroding rapidly. The actions I observed in your video, on the part of the elders and the guards, were rooted in fear. These people have bet their lives upon this religion being accurate in its predictions and anyone that questions the authority of the GB is undermining the foundation… Read more »
“But in the information age, this notion is being challenged and people are realizing that many religions function mostly as a toll booth on whatever road they claim leads to God.”
I love this! ?
Hi ? Bereoans family including Eric, haven’t watched the videos yet however can only imagine what a star chamber/kangaroo court it proved itself to be, inevitably. On her YouTube channel”witness for Jesus”, Dawn has this month posted another older sister JC and Appeal that were also recorted. It was heartbreaking and abhorrent how the gb policies are attempting to “spirituality” shoot down the likes of Eric and this fine,strong and defender of true faith. Proud of both of you. Jehovah God and Jesus and the angel ?
Oops, meant angels no doubt proud of you too!!
Ok, two hours later, after the midweek meeting (LOL)watching now. Oh my goodness, oh my goodness. You have done an incredible mighty witness! Now there are two AND many more witnesses to this sham now. Pitiful, pitiful “men/elders”. Contrasted with how you reasoned and presented yourself.
It wasn’t easy to restrain myself from saying what I really wanted. Kudos to my companions for exercising similar restraint.
I can’t help but wonder how many ‘ranking’ JW’s- Circuit Overseers, perhaps even Governing Body members, are familiar with Beroean Pickets and Eric Wilson/Meleti Vivlon. If perhaps you are one of these brothers and just viewed this, can you conscientiously defend this type of action? If Jesus walked as a human right now, would he have acted like the ‘brothers’ involved with this judicial action against Brother Wilson? Is Brother Wilson seeking followers after himself or is it the Governing Body that demands lock step allegiance to all of their own opinions? Remember, it was the Jewish religious leaders of… Read more »
The so entitled, self appointed and likely self annointed “great 8” as the g.b. have proved themselves to have become the evil slave of Matt 24:46-. For me, that can be the main explanation. Woe and millstones for them if they continue this course.
Supposed to be in “lock step” with the dictates of the gb….. When specific reference was made to the ks book, (the written wisdom from the gb) it was completely ignored. The unwritten oral traditions of the organization and this attitude toward them have been quietly supported by the highest levels of their leadership for years. The things written are for the rank and file, and the public, not for real administration. This is both hypocritical and a true apostasizing from the Christ. Eric, both our King and Saviour and his Father are surely proud of you for your stand… Read more »
That was a fine display of standing your God given intelligence up against some of the devil’s lieutenants, and showing no fear standing on their soil. From my view, it looked like seven, horned ranking, mind controlled parrots, with probably three more in the inner court with somewhat higher judicial ranking, awaiting MVEW (MeletiVivlon/EricWilson) and his entourage. The MCP’s (mind controlled parrots) were not willing to attempt to match Scriptures with MVEW (“am few”) and his hand prepared notes, and chosen witnesses. (disciples)! The MCP’s knew they were no match for the occasion. So MVEW withdrew in heraldic fashion, knowing… Read more »
Well said Psalmbee. Awesome and EXACTLY!!!!
“WTG Meleti! It took a Big Man to go knock on the dragons door and basically tell him to KMA! No fear, is was the Lord promises to those that call upon His Name!”
?? Awesome words. True sentiments. ?
Thank you for making me smile this morning, PsalmBee.
Hello Eric and all. This little experience of yours really demonstrates what you have termed the oral law. This is what frustrated me and no doubt many others the most when I was “privileged” to be party to these shenanigans. Things fall away from the “strictly”prescribed direction in the Flock Book so quickly to what amounts to making things up on the run to the point that there is no coherence to anything resembling Christianity in dealing with matters. And the Flock book is just ignored. Breaking out in laughter is understandable! You have demonstrated this as you continually appeal… Read more »
So beautifully expressed Alithia. Thankyou on behalf of readers of this site?
Alithia, I agree and thank you too. Well said.
The actions of the guards troubled me as well. I’ve read the history of WW II extensively and I am convinced that the actions of some in the German army were the result of being so convinced that they were in the right that they never even thought about the morality of their actions. These guards struck me the same way. There was no reasoning with them. They were completely brainwashed.
Those ‘guards’ daren’t speak their own words. We could see it in their eyes. Programmed robots.
That, or they were frightened of you Eric!
“ when I am weak, I am am powerful.”
You proved that with your actions, words, and dignity.
Anyone seeing this can tell that truth has flown out of the window in the organisation and obedience to men is king.
So proud of you Eric!
The mental pictures that formed when I read about the “security detail” present on the day – Very Trumpian and North Korean in nature. Arms folded, looking down on you – blank aggressive expressions.
Yes, Africaine. The committee members words were soothing and reassuring, but their body language and facial expressions spoke the truth about the true nature of their intentions.
Frightful indeed, Alithia. It shows the evil we can allow ourselves to practice when we surrender our will to other men, rather than to our Lord and our God.