[This is a continuation of the topic on the Role of Women in the Congregation.]
This article began as a comment in response to Eleasar’s thought-provoking, well-researched comment on the meaning of kephalē in 1 Corinthians 11:3.
"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Co 11:3 BSB)
The reason I decided to convert it into an article was the realization that Eleasar’s conclusions are shared by a number of others. Since this has become more than an academic issue, and now has the potential of dividing our nascent congregation, I felt it would be better to deal with it as an article. Not everyone reads comments, so what is written here might be missed. With that in mind, I would invite all to read Eleasar’s comment before continuing with this article.
The real issue before the congregation is whether or not women should pray aloud in a congregation meeting where men are present. That might seem to be a non-issue since it is very clear from 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5 that Christian women did pray in the congregation in the first century. We can hardly deny them a right that was established in the early congregation without something very specific in Scripture to authorize such a decision.
Therefore, it seems—if I’m reading correctly the various comments, emails and meeting remarks I have seen and heard—that the quandary some feel relates to the issue of authority. They feel that praying in the congregation implies a level of authority over the group. One objection I’ve heard is that it would be wrong for a woman to pray on behalf of men. Those that promote this idea feel that the opening and closing prayers fall into the category of prayers on behalf of the congregation. These individuals seem to differentiate these two prayers from prayers that might be offered for special circumstances—praying for the sick, for instance—within the context of a meeting. Again, I'm putting all this together from various things that have been written and said, though no one has precisely articulated the scriptural reasons for their reticence in allowing women to pray within the congregation meeting arrangement.
For example, referring back to Eleasar's comment, much is made about the belief that Paul’s use of the Greek word kephalē (head) in 1 Corinthians 11:3 relates to “authority” rather than “source”. However, no connection is made in the comment between that understanding and the fact clearly stated in the next verses (vs. 4 and 5) that women did indeed pray in the congregation. Since we cannot deny the fact they prayed, then the question becomes: Was Paul limiting in some way a woman’s participation in praying (and let’s not forget about prophesying) by his reference to headship? If so, why doesn’t he explicitly state what that limitation is? It would seem unfair were we to limit such an important aspect of worship based solely on inference.
Kephalē: Source or Authority?
From Eleasar’s comment, it seems that the preponderance of Bible scholars view kephalē as referring to "authority" and not "source". Of course, the fact that a majority believes something is no basis for assuming it is true. We might say that the majority of scientists believe in evolution, and there is little doubt that the majority of Christians believe in the Trinity. However, I’m convinced that neither is true.
On the other hand, I am not suggesting that we should discount something simply because a majority believes it.
There is also the issue of our tendency to accept what someone says who is more learned than we are. Is that not the reason the average “man in the street” accepts evolution as fact?
If you look back at the prophets of ancient Israel together with the fishermen making up the Lord’s apostles, you see that often Jehovah selected the most ignoble, lowly and despised of individuals to bring wise men to shame. (Luke 10:21; 1 Corinthians 1:27)
Given this, we do well to look at Scripture ourselves, do our own research, and let the spirit guide us. After all, this is the only way for us to discern what motivates us, whether male or female.
For instance, almost every scholar engaged in Bible translation has rendered Hebrews 13:17 as “Obey your leaders”, or words to that effect—the NIV being the notable exception. The word in Greek translated in this verse as “obey” is peithó, and is defined as “to persuade, to have confidence, to urge”. So why don’t these Bible scholars render it that way? Why is it ubiquitously translated as “obey”? They do a good job with it elsewhere in the Christian Scriptures, so why not here? Could it be that the bias of a ruling class is at work here, seeking some Scriptural support for the authority they presume to wield over the flock of God?
The trouble with bias is its subtle nature. We are often biased quite unwittingly. Oh, we can see it easily enough in others, but are often blind to it in ourselves.
So, when the majority of scholars reject the meaning of kephalē as “source/origin”, but instead opt for “authority”, is this because that is where the scriptures lead, or because that is where they want them to lead?
It would be unfair to dismiss the research of these men simply as a result of male bias. Likewise, it would be unwise simply to accept their research on the assumption it is free of such bias. Such a bias is real and inbred.
Genesis 3:16 states that a woman’s yearning will be for the man. This disproportionate yearning is a result of the imbalance resulting from sin. As men, we acknowledge this fact. However, do we also acknowledge that in us, the male sex, another imbalance exists causing us to dominate the female? Do we think that just because we call ourselves Christian, we are free of every vestige of this imbalance? That would be a very dangerous assumption to make, for the easiest way to fall prey to a weakness is to believe we have conquered it entirely. (1 Corinthians 10:12)
Playing Devil’s Advocate
I have often found that the best way to test out an argument is to accept its premise and then take it to its logical extreme to see whether it will still hold water, or burst wide open.
Therefore, let us take the position that kephalē (head) in 1 Corinthians 11:3 does indeed refer to the authority each head holds.
The first is Jehovah. He has all authority. His authority is without limit. That is beyond dispute.
Jehovah has given Jesus "all authority in heaven and earth". His authority, unlike Jehovah's is limited. He has been given full authority for a limited period of time. It started upon this resurrection, and ends when he fulfills his task. (Matthew 28:18; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
However, Paul does not acknowledge this level of authority in this verse. He doesn’t say that Jesus is the head of all creation, the head of all the angels, the head of the congregation, the head of both men and women. He only says that he is the head of the man. He limits Jesus’ authority in this context to the authority he has over men. Jesus is not spoken of as the head of women, but only men.
It seems that Paul is talking about a special channel of authority or a chain of command, so to speak. The angels are not involved in this, even though Jesus holds authority over them. It would seem that is a different branch of authority. Men don’t have authority over angels and angels don’t have authority over men. Yet, Jesus has authority over both.
What is the nature of this authority?
At John 5:19 Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.” Now if Jesus does nothing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing, it follows that men should not take the authority of headship to mean they rule the roost, as it were. Instead, their job—our job—is like that of Jesus, which is to see that what God wants gets done. The chain of command starts with God and goes through us. It doesn’t start with us.
Now, assuming that Paul is using kephalē to mean authority and not source, how does that impact the question of whether women can pray in the congregation? (Let us not get distracted. This is the only question we are seeking to answer here.) Does praying in the congregation require the one praying to hold a level of authority over the rest? If so, then our equating “head” with “authority” would eliminate women from praying. But here’s the rub: It would also eliminate men from praying.
“Brothers, not one of you is my head, so how could any of you presume to represent me in prayer?”
If praying on behalf of the congregation—something we claim applies when we open and close with prayer—implies authority, then men cannot do it. Only our head can do it, though I haven’t found an occasion in Scripture where Jesus even did that. Be that as it may, there is no indication that first century Christians designated a brother to stand and pray on behalf of the congregation. (Do a search for yourself using this token – pray* – in the Watchtower Library program.)
We have proof that men prayed in the congregation in the first century. We have proof that women prayed in the congregation in the first century. We have no proof that anyone, male or female, prayed on behalf of the congregation in the first century.
It appears that we are concerned about a custom we have inherited from our former religion which, in turn, inherited it from Christendom. Praying on behalf of the congregation implies a level of authority which I do not possess, assuming “head” to mean “authority”. Since I am not the head of any man, how can I presume to represent other men and pray to God in their stead?
If some argue that praying on behalf of the congregation does not imply that the man praying is exercising authority (headship) over the congregation and over other men, then how can they say it does if it is a woman doing the praying? What is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.
If we accept that Paul is using kephalē (head) to refer to an authority hierarchy and that praying on behalf of the congregation involves headship, then I accept that a woman should not pray to God on behalf of the congregation. I accept that. I realize now that the men who have contended this point are right. However, they have not gone far enough. We have not gone far enough. I now realize that neither should a man pray on behalf of the congregation.
No man is my kephalē (my head). So by what right would any man presume to pray for me?
If God were physically present, and we were all sitting before him as his children, male and female, brother and sister, would anyone presume to speak to Father on our behalf, or would we all want to speak to him directly?
Conclusion
It is only through fire that ore is refined and the precious minerals locked within can come out. This question has been a trial for us, but I think that some great good has come out of it. Our goal, having left behind an extremely controlling, male-dominated religion, has been to wend our way back to the original faith established by our Lord and practiced in the early congregation.
It seems that many spoke up in the Corinthian congregation and Paul doesn’t discourage that. His only counsel was to go about it in an orderly manner. No one’s voice was to be silenced, but all things were to be done for building up of the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 14:20-33)
Instead of following the model of Christendom and asking for a mature, prominent brother to open with prayer or close with prayer, why not start the meeting by asking if anyone would like to pray? And after he or she bears his or her soul in prayer, we could ask if anyone else would like to pray. And after that one prays, we could continue to ask until all who wished to had had their say. Each would not be praying on behalf of the congregation but would be expressing his or her own feelings aloud for all to hear. If we say "amen", it’s merely to say that we agree with what was said.
In the first century, we are told:
“And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers.” (Acts 2:42)
They ate together, including commemorating the Lord’s supper, they fellowshipped, they learned and they prayed. All this was part of their meetings, the worship.
I know this may seem odd, coming as we have from an extremely formalized way of worship. Long-established customs are hard to break with. But we must remember who established those customs. If they have not originated with God, and worse, if they are getting in the way of the worship that our Lord intended for us, then we must get rid of them.
If someone, after reading this, continues to believe that women should not be allowed to pray in the congregation, then please give us something concrete to go on in Scripture, because to now, we are still left with the fact established in 1 Corinthians 11:5 that women did both pray and prophecy in the first century congregation.
May the peace of God be with us all.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Understanding the Role of Women in God's Family - Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2019-11-26 22:10:39
[…] [For more information on this topic, see Does a Woman Praying in the Congregation Violate Headship? […]
Comment by Christian on 2019-11-27 00:22:30
The arguments meted here are rational and more importantly biblically sound. The point of headship is well reasoned, as far as I'm concerned and I believe that anyone in the Congregation could be called to pray publicly, The stipulation that Paul reminded us of was the woman's recognition of men's role of headship would have her see to it that her head was suitably covered. Of course, we don't, all think alike. I suspect a number of men may not feel comfortable with this, believing that to allow women to pray, even though their heads are covered, might undermine their own 'authority' within the congregation arrangement. Aren't we glad that we can talk so freely with each other on matters such as this and not feel we're talking out of turn as was the case in our former religion.
Comment by Adam on 2019-11-27 01:43:48
Thanks Eric.
Christ is the head of the congregation not men.
Ephesians 5:2 "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body."
The man is the head in the marriage arrangement, but even then it is only as a tiebreaker to resolve a 50/50 standoff, a situation that is rare in it Christian marriage. Usually there is a meeting of the minds and headship is not resorted to.
I can't see the necessity to impose a hierarchy, with mens headship to extend to over our sisters.
I liked the point that the sister's longer hair is their head covering, a logical, reasonable, liberating and dignifying viewpoint.
Comment by frankvague on 2019-11-27 01:45:12
This was an interesting read with a lot of good scriptural reasoning. The fact that women prayed in worship settings is clear from 1 Cor 11:5. However, all the other stuff around that verse is pretty weird and almost unintelligible to a modern person. What does a head covering or male and female hair length have to do with this issue at all? And how does it relate to angels?
A big part of the controversy has to do with our reading this text out of its cultural context. It's not just that our understanding of kephalē is wrong, the main problem lies in the fact that we don't really understand what is the overall point Paul is trying to make here, and thus it's easy to hold on to our previous views about male authority.
I recently listened to an excellent podcast discussing these verses, I highly recommend it. The podcast analyses these verses in the context of ancient views on human anatomy and chastity. Although the points made have to do with human anatomy, the discussion is respectful, makes extensive use of relevant primary sources from the time and makes a lot of sense.
The podcast intro states: "[The article under discussion] interprets Paul’s argument from nature in 1 Cor. 11:13-15 against the background of ancient physiology. The Greek and Roman medical texts provide useful information for interpreting not only Paul’s letters but also other NT texts.” The article (and the author’s subsequent responses to criticism, also published in academic literature) presents a compelling case and is, to Dr. Heiser’s knowledge, the only approach that provides a coherent explanation as to why the head covering warnings are important, in the words of Paul “because of the angels” (1 Cor. 11:10).
Naked Bible podcast #86: The Head Covering of 1 Corinthians 11:13-15
https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/naked-bible-86-the-head-covering-of-1-corinthians-1113-15/Reply by Helanren on 2019-11-29 13:23:00
Great that you also found this episode! A few months ago I started to listen to the Naked Bible Podcast, and this episode immediately caught my attention. I also asked my antiquity professor at college about it and he affirmed that hair was viewed as a part of the genitalia.
If you want to read the articles about it, here they are!
-Paul's Argument from Nature for the Veil in 1 Corinthians 11:13-15: A Testicle Instead of a Head Covering (Original article by Dr. Martin) www.jstor.org/stable/3268550
-Does περιβόλαιον Mean "Testicle" in 1 Corinthians 11:15? (Response by Dr. Goodacre) www.jstor.org/stable/41304207
-Περιβόλαιον as "Testicle" in 1 Corinthians 11:15: A Response to Mark Goodacre (Response by Dr. Martin) www.jstor.org/stable/23488022
“Peribolaion” also occurs in Hebrews 1:12. There it is rendered as “mantle” or “robe” (https://biblehub.com/greek/peribolaion_4018.htm). But definition is determined by context, and as argued in the article, testicles are indeed a “mantle” around seed.
Thanks for your comment!Reply by frankvague on 2019-12-01 23:01:02
Good to know there's another fan of the Naked Bible podcast here in the community. And thanks for the article links. I haven't taken the time to read them through yet. (Also, congratulations for being the first person to say "testicle" on an exJW Bible study forum, ha ha. I managed to avoid it. =)
Reply by Helanren on 2019-12-03 05:41:46
Podcasts are really handy to make a good use of dead time, like when doing the dishes or laundry! I also love The Bible Project Podcast (https://thebibleproject.com/podcasts/the-bible-project-podcast/). Perhaps you already know it, but if you like The Naked Bible Podcast, I'm sure you will like this one also.
And thanks for the dubious honour haha. I just don't like political correctness. Maybe that's because I'm Dutch. Nonetheless, I've never been to the States, so I don't have a lot to compare with. I know a lot of Asian people though, and they think we are pretty straightforward haha.
It's a pleasure to meet you!
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-11-27 04:51:45
Hi Eric,
Another subject well worth discussing. Here is what I found:-
From an article "Hair coverings for married women" was the following :_
The origin of the tradition lies in the Sotah ritual, a ceremony described in the Bible that tests the fidelity of a woman accused of adultery. According to the Torah, the priest uncovers or unbraids the accused woman’s hair as part of the humiliation that precedes the ceremony (Numbers 5:18). From this, the Talmud (Ketuboth 72) concludes that under normal circumstances hair covering is a biblical requirement for women.
So it is Jewish tradition that requires a woman to have her head covered.
However, is it possible that Paul, at 1 Corinthians 11, was trying to limit the occasions of head covering to only praying and prophesying, rather than all sorts of other circumstances ? So what we might have is not an argument FOR women to be subservient to men, but simply Paul's explanation of WHY he thought women should have their heads covered when praying or prophesying, probably just within in the congregation.
Just my thoughts
Comment by Celestial on 2019-11-27 08:26:51
Dear community
The recent issue of our sisters’ contributing role during Beroean meetings of 17 November seemed to raise considerable hesitancy and a degree of confusion among attendees, myself included. From my point of view, brother Jose’s overview on the issue was insightful and fair-minded, prompting me to rethink the issue specifically in regard to offering prayer in behalf of the group. The following points are merely my understanding at this present time and form a preamble to the issue of offering prayer in behalf of the Beroean group.
Free-will
The principle of headship may not trump an individual’s expression of free-will in the sense that we appreciate that Jehovah God does not necessarily prohibit or intervene with any expression of free-will. We see that is true throughout the Biblical record, and of Satan himself whom Jehovah permitted to explore all levels of rebellion against God by means of ‘all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.’ (Mt 4:8) An individual may choose to humbly delight in pleasing Jehovah as their Father or choose to abuse their free-will by do anything else under the influence of anyone else. (Ps 37:3,4; 36:1,4) Our quest to humbly choose a voluntary submission and a consistent joyful allegiance to our Father Jehovah is the basis for an individual’s permanent inclusion within God’s household arrangement.
Our earthly household arrangement would need to reflect that same humility to voluntarily submit to those who also truly love God. All true Christians strive to treat each other as their superior. (Php 2:1-5) But again this is a voluntary expression of free-will and cannot be forced but rather nurtured by the spiritually mature. (1Th 2:7,8) My understanding is that such an appreciation forms the basis of the headship principle of 1Corinthians 11:3 in order to cherish each other within a sanctuary of love, in order to honour both our physical and spiritual family members.
Headship
Jesus Christ alone is preeminently the sole trusted authority of a Christian group through which ‘the helper’, God’s holy spirit, would mould each individual member and strengthen the group, relative to the heart motivation of each individual member, and in relation to the individual’s capacity and choosing to be moulded. Because of Jesus’ immutable position, no member or members of a group should be regarded as an oracle of the group. (1 Co 1:10,12,13,25-29; 14:36; 2 Co 10:12) Nevertheless deep respect should be shown for the various gifts and strengths of each member without prejudice, though some may be more spiritually astute and articulate. (1Co 12:1-31; 13:2,3; 14:3) All God’s children are equally loved by God and we respond in kind to one another. (Eph 5:1,2) The Christian Greek scriptures disclaim the formation of a hierarchical governance over others, due to our Lord Jesus Christ having sole authority to direct Christians by means of God’s holy spirit. Whereas scripture defined a Christian’s governance as formed by the operation of god’s holy spirit to sustain the mind of Christ through a compassionate heart motivated by agapē love, i.e. an active Christian conscience. (2 Co 10:5,6; Mt 5:44-48; 1 Co 13:1,2,13; 1Tim 1:5) In so doing, a joyful appreciation of Jesus’ Lordship is sustained by means of God’s holy spirit within the group. In this sense our Lord Jesus Christ exercises his headship.
Within the marital arrangement, a specific focus on the marital three-fold cord addresses the foibles of thinking between an imperfect husband and his wife in reflection of the Creator of marriage, Jehovah himself. (Ecc 4:12) Of course, the success of the marital arrangement is to the greater degree dependent upon the degree of voluntary submission of each marital partner, the exercise of each individual’s free-will under the guidance of God’s holy spirit through their Lord Jesus Christ. When a balanced marital decision needs brokerage from differing understandings between a husband and his wife, to prevent vacillation in opinion, misunderstandings and a potential breach of trust, the Creator of marriage has entrusted the final decision to be made by the husband, on the understanding that it conforms to Jesus’ pattern of nurturing and compassion, and his wife cooperates humbly with deep respect for her husband’s decision. (Eph 5:28-30,32,33; 1Cor 6:19,20) In a sense, the way a wife shows deep respect and love for her husband is a powerful witness of her deep respect and love for her Lord Jesus Christ; and again the way a husband shows his respect and deep love of his wife is his powerful witness of his union with his head Jesus Christ. (1Cor 11:3) But the Bible does not teach us to be naïve. The Bible clearly stated that no matter how well a Christian may master his/her marital role, it will be continually tested with difficulties due to conflict from within our sinful natures. (1Cor 7:28)
Many of our sisters are not under a marital arrangement. So in what way does the principle of headship apply .. if any .. in relation to sisters regarding their spiritual brothers within the Beroean group, or toward men generally? We know that our sisters and brothers are on an equitable spiritual standing and accountability before God, having been set free from a written code of practice through implicit faith in Christ prevailing their thinking and affirmative action. In this sense both genders will have the same outcome. (Joh 8:31,32,36; Gal 3:26-28; 6:1; Acts 15:8-11) But are our imperfect sisters’ capacities appraised by God on the same level as our imperfect brothers’ capacities?
I tried to find some scriptural grounding that may confirm that such an even sharing of capacity between genders, or even to find a hint that such could be conceived. However the scriptures emphatically affirm that our sisters, married or single, have not been granted the same capacity or authority toward their spiritual brothers nor men generally. The overall context of Scripture consistently portrays primarily men as God’s appointed prophets, priests, judges, kings, warriors, Nazerites, family heads, and apostles in these most accountable positions. The Christian Greek Scriptures consistently point to the Genesis account to grasp the core God’s reasoning to affirm the role of women in relation to the role of men, confirming our sisters have a complementary role toward their brothers as ‘helper as a complement’. (Gen 2:18,20) Also proscribed by God was the ongoing effect of a woman’s sinful condition as stated at Genesis 3:16; ‘..in birth pains you will bring forth children, and your cravings will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.’ This reasoning was drawn upon for apostle Paul’s admonition that prohibited a sister from taking on an instructional role in a mixed gender Christian group. (1Cor 11:4-16; 14:33-35; 1Tim 2;8-15) Due to that line of reasoning from scripture, it seems an uncomfortable fit to facilitate sisters praying in behalf of their brothers at Christian Beroean meetings.
There is another line of reasoning that may contribute to a better understanding of representing a Christian group through prayer before Jehovah our God.
Prayer:
Many of those who have left a Watchtower org., remember cringing when certain known dubious or egocentric characters represented us in congregational prayer. In such cases congregation members had difficulty giving their heart’s attention to the prayer and may feel compelled to offer their own silent prayer to Jehovah instead.
This is also true when we endure perfunctory or sanctimonious prayers, or prayers that infer an opinion or a rebuke, consequently our hearts may tune out. In such cases, the tone of the prayer does not resonate with humility and fails to mirror the qualities of God’s holy spirit.
We were familiar with those assumed to be mature males who were appointed under Watchtower hierarchical guidelines, but were they in a fit condition to represent the congregation? Who does Jehovah accept and who is not acceptable?
An individual who serves as a representative of a group must be holy and acceptable to God. Offering prayer in behalf of others bears high accountability and the individual is given great trust to stand before God for the benefit of the group. I have made this understanding with respect to those who would be entrusted as servants of the group, commonly expressed in Bible translations as deacons, diákonos in Greek.
The Bible recommends the appointment of ‘deacons’ in this manner: ‘And let them also be tested first; then if they prove themselves blameless let them serve as deacons.’RSV (1Tim 3:10) If we are to use the term deacon to refer to those representing the Beroean group, it seems appropriate that those who represent the group would need to be tested as to fitness first before being entrusted with representing the group. Our Christian hallmarks of deep respect, patience and compassion toward one another need to be self-evident, all of which is reliant upon our cooperation with Christ’s direction and God’s spirit. The spirit of the group’s representative must show that the individual is in tune with the God’s spirit. (Gal 6:18)
Arising from our respect for the group’s attendees and God the Father himself, meaningful prayer in behalf of the group requires some preparation rather than from a grab-bag of ideas that may come to mind while praying. With prior careful heart-flt consideration the whole arrangement draws attendees closer to Jehovah and to one another, strengthening us under the operation of God’s holy spirit and bringing Jehovah delight.
With this in mind, it may be a consideration that each attendee should prepare to contribute to meetings and also offer their own prayer immediately prior to enjoining a Beroean meeting, rather than to off-load that responsibility to some other person. Such a response seems in accord with Jesus counsel:
“Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. ...But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you.” (Matthew 6:1,6)
Of course I am very open to any further understanding that gives me a better grasp on these issues, and would appreciate your comments.
May your joy and peace keep your faith firm.
your brother living by faithReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-11-27 09:54:20
Celestial,
Thank you for contributing your extensive thoughts and opinions on this important matter.
You wrote: "This reasoning was drawn upon for apostle Paul’s admonition that prohibited a sister from taking on an instructional role in a mixed gender Christian group. (1Cor 11:4-16; 14:33-35; 1Tim 2;8-15)"
Have you read the first article, Understanding the Role of Women in God’s Family, that prompted this discussion? It addresses all these scriptures and shows that the Christian community has been misapplying the Scriptures to the congregation.
Based on the current article you are commenting on, it is now my understanding that it would be inappropriate for anyone, male or female, to represent the congregation in prayer. It is one thing to pray in the congregation aloud, but quite another to represent it before God. The latter would violate the principle of headship because no man is the head of any other man. So while I agree with what you say here:
"Due to that line of reasoning from scripture, it seems an uncomfortable fit to facilitate sisters praying in behalf of their brothers at Christian Beroean meetings."
I would say that the same thing applies to the brothers. "It seems an uncomfortable fit to facilitate brothers praying in behalf of their brothers at Christian Beroean meetings." I realize that may go against long-standing traditions, but I'm really not interested in traditions anymore. My concern is to conform to the righteous standards laid down in the Scriptures from which Christianity has deviated so far over the centuries."
In all the discussions we have had so far with the brothers, I have notice one glaring oversight. In every dissenting opinion I have heard or read, the important truth revealed in this one verse is ignored.
“but every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head, for it is one and the same as if she were a woman with a shaved head.” (1 Co 11:5)
Paul doesn't say women should stop praying and stop prophesying. He acknowledges that they are doing that, and his only stipulation is to do so with a head covering.
To prophesy is to instruct. Prophecy doesn't mean simply foretelling the future. Strong's concordance explains:
Definition: a prophet (an interpreter or forth-teller of the divine will)
Usage: a prophet, poet; a person gifted at expositing divine truth.
There is the considerable amount of opinion and interpretation going around, and I in no way want to discourage such a thing, but before we can opine on this subject, we have to first explain how any feelings we may have can be valid if they ignore the fact that women did pray and did prophesy (instruct) in the Christian congregation in the first century.
I think your expression "an uncomfortable fit" is most revealing. Our comfort level should not be a concern. Are we concerned that our sisters might be uncomfortable at being blocked from talking to their Father openly in the congregation? It seems not. Is it the comfort level of the male that should be foremost in our mind? Christ is our head, and yet he never put his comfort before that of those he served. If women praying in the congregation violate some bible command or principle, then fine, but if that is the case, no one has yet explained why there were praying and prophesying in the first century.
Perhaps this is a good time for each of us to analyze our own feelings. Are we men concerned about allowing women to pray because we view it as the thin edge of the wedge? What next? Is this encroaching feminism within our congregation? No. We are dealing with one issue, and one issue only. Should women be allowed to pray in the congregation? Let us not lose our focus.
If the question makes us feel uncomfortable, what of it? Women prayed in the early congregation. That's a fact!
Does any one of us want to stand before our Lord and Head on Judgment Day and explain that we blocked our fellow christians from praising our Father in open assembly because it made us feel uncomfortable?
Comment by Frankie on 2019-11-27 20:30:02
Hello Eric.
I agree with You that there is no reason for our sisters not to pray at meetings. However, I think that the question of subordination is not decisive compared to the relationship of our sisters to our heavenly Father and our Savior.
Jesus is the head of a Christian congregation, consisting of brothers and sisters who are on the same level with respect to their Lord. Brothers and sisters are equally loved and valuable in God's eyes.
IMO, the authority of a man over a woman concerns the marital arrangement. These marriage relationships are predicted in Genesis 3:16.
Verses Eph 5: 23-24 and 1 Cor 11: 3 speak of the authority of the husband over his wife in the field of marriage.
" ... For the husband is the head of the WIFE as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a WIFE is her husband, and the head of Christ is God."
It is not about an 12 y.o. brother being an authority over a 70 y.o. sister.
Very nicely it is explained e.g. in Barnes' notes to Eph 5:23:
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/ephesians/5.htm
Verses 1 Cor 11: 4-5 show that in the early Christian congregations women not only prayed, but also prophesied (if there were microphones at that time, they could certainly wear them). Here, the emphasis is on the outward manifestation of a woman's subordination and not on whether she may speak or not. Otherwise, Chapter 11 would be in conflict with Chapter 14.
The ban on women speaking in churches is directed to Corinth. Paul apparently responds to a particular situation in a particular congregation. The aim was to maintain order that was likely to be disturbed by undisciplined or squabbling women:
"If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God." (1 Cor 11:16).
" ... For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let YOUR [corinthian] women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law." "Let all things be done decently and in order." (1 Cor 14:33-34, 40)
I also think that praying on behalf of someone else (even on behalf of congregation) is non-biblical. As you wrote, there is no precedent anywhere in the Bible. And then I do not see into heart of my brother or sister, nor do I know the state of mind, hidden desires or motives. To pray on behalf of another would be a simple insolence.
But I can pray for my brother or sister if he or she is in troubles, for example.
God's holy Spirit works in both men and women because all Christians, brothers and sisters, are children of God through faith in Jesus Christ. In the first century, women in congregations prayed and prophesied under the influence of the holy Spirit. Who are we to revoke this?
Love to you and all. FrankieReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-11-27 21:00:29
Very well reasoned, Frankie!
Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-27 22:46:03
Hello Frankie,
I appreciate your comment very much because it is so clear and to the point. I am wondering how a man like you might feel if a woman prayed at a spiritual meeting, not on behalf of anyone, but in the way Brother Wilson suggested that men and women in the congregation could do.....here is his quote from his second article: "And after he or she bears his or her soul in prayer, we could ask if anyone else would like to pray. And after that one prays, we could continue to ask until all who wished to had had their say. Each would not be praying on behalf of the congregation but would be expressing his or her own feelings aloud for all to hear. If we say “amen”, it’s merely to say that we agree with what was said."
Frankie, do you feel that it would make you uncomfortable if a woman prayed outwardly in words that you could hear? I just wanted to ask you because I think you are a good person to ask because you talked about how women prayed in the first century and you did not wince in your expressions. If that feels uncomfortable for you to answer, then no worries and please don't mind me asking. But I thought you could be an example to some men who are more open-minded like you, or shall I say open-hearted like you. You know, after all that the women of the world have suffered under the domination of men, and in the JW organization too, it is so amazing to think that any mixed group of men and women would enjoy and be uplifted by a woman sharing her heart in prayer before or after a meeting. As you said so beautifully, women are also children of God who have the same love from our Father! They are equally loved in his eyes!
Can you imagine Frankie how encouraging it would be for sisters to feel that brothers care enough about them to encourage them and then listen to them pray? I am so astonished that brothers coming out from the JW organization (that specializes in mowing over women) have no real care for women because they express that it takes them out of their comfort zone and would be an uncomfortable event and outside the Bible arrangement of headship. It just goes to show that intellectual knowledge is not born from the Spirit, but love is, as we all know! It is so strange that so many scripturally studied men have so little love to help their sisters heal and feel empowered at this time!
Thank you for inspiring me to reach out to you!Reply by louabbott on 2019-11-28 09:43:26
Abigail, you may be interested in my reply to Frankie:
https://beroeans.net/2019/11/26/does-a-woman-praying-in-the-congregation-violate-headship/#comment-22738
I would love to hear more prayers from all my brothers and Sisters. Male, female, I think matters not at all. After all, does not what Paul said at Ga. 3:28 apply in this area also?
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman,+ there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus."
Reply by Frankie on 2019-11-28 14:43:44
Hi Louabbott
Amen to your comment.
Frankie
Reply by Frankie on 2019-11-28 17:11:25
Hello Abigail.
Dear sister, thank you so for your nice words. I'll try to answer some of your questions.
You wrote: "It just goes to show that intellectual knowledge is not born from the Spirit, but love is, as we all know! It is so strange that so many scripturally studied men have so little love to help their sisters heal and feel empowered at this time!” Yes - " This "knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up.” (1 Cor 8:1). All knowledge is nothing without love - 1 Cor 13.
I would be very pleased to hear some sister pray at a spiritual meeting. Maybe also in the way Eric wrote. I am convinced that a sister's prayer would flow straight from the heart. I had similar experience as Louabbott.
Women are wonderful beings. Women have many qualities that men do not have and vice versa. A woman is a real complement to a man. A woman is more emotional, and her way of praying is often less burdened by a rational approach typical for men. Women's prayers would undoubtedly be building for both the congregation and sisters.
Inwardly, I never agreed to a ban on sisters to pray in meetings. I believed it would change. In vain.
This ban states that women are second-class people in relation to God, which is negation of Gal 3:28 and consequently this is a sin against God! While I was still attending meetings, I was helping several sisters to overcome the stress of constant "doing more” mantra through Bible. I have the impression that sisters, as more emotional beings, were more touched by this.
On the basis of immense sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Christians can call Jehovah their Father (Rom 8:15). Therefore, brothers are sons of God and sisters are daughters of God.
Love to you Abigail and to all. Frankie
P.S. Do you know what happened when God had been creating a woman?
(This text was sent to me via e-mail. I would like to please all our sisters.)
It was still the sixth day when God had been creating woman. The angel appeared and said, "Why have you been dealing with this woman for so long?"
And God said, "She must have 300 moving parts, she must be able to work on black coffee and leftovers, she must have a womb that can hold several children, and she must have a kiss that will heal anything from a scraped knee to a broken heart."
The angel said: "Isn't that too much work for one day? Please, could you wait until tomorrow when you finish it?”
"But I can't”, God said, "I am so close to completing this creation, which is so close to my heart.”
The angel then noticed something; he touched the cheek of the woman.
"What does this water mean?”
The God explained. "That's a tear-drop."
"What's the tear-drop?" asked angel.
God replied:
"Tear is her way of expressing joy, sadness, pain, disillusionment, loneliness, grief and pride."
The angel was overwhelmed "That's really brilliant, my God. You thought of everything."
So God created a woman. And since then, all women have great qualities.
Women have beauty, which will enchant men.
They carry children, they carry suffering.
They carry duties, but they hold together happiness, love and joy.
They smile when they want to scream.
They sing when they want to cry.
They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous.
They fight for everything they believe and they can stand against iniquity.
They do not take "no" for the answer when they believe in a better solution.
They don't need new shoes for their children to have.
They go to the doctor with a worried girlfriend.
They love unconditionally.
They cry when their children excel and rejoice when their friends are appreciated.
Their hearts break when someone close dies, but they are still strong, even though they think they have no strength left.
They know that hug and kiss will heal a broken heart.
Women do much more than just giving birth. They bring joy and hope. They offer compassion. Women have a lot to say and give.Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-28 17:58:44
Frankie, thank you so much! You are a man of great love and compassion. I am so honored to receive your thoughts and your words. I bow my head in gratitude.
Reply by Frankie on 2019-11-28 19:12:20
Dear sister,
I'm glad if I pleased you. But in fact it was God's work "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13). God Himself pleased you through His servant.
And if we do something good, it is thanks to our Lord, who says: "I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5).
Abigail, we are in good hands.
FrankieReply by Abigail on 2019-11-28 22:43:17
Hi Frankie,
Yes we are in good hands and thank you for sharing! I was going to say in my previous response to you that "Our Father is telling me that he cares about me through through your kindness," or something like that.
I am glad you are a feeling person. I love the scripture at John 15:5. It is so profoundly moving.
Peace be with you,
AbigailReply by Frankie on 2019-11-30 15:50:42
Thank you Abigail, I am very pleased with your comments.
God bless you.
Frankie
Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-11-28 04:57:13
Hi Frankie. Lots of good thoughts in your comment, and those of everyone else. It is excellent to see everyone tackling a scriptural subject in such thoughtful ways.
My 50 pence worth is as follows :
The idea of women praying does not disturb me at all. I could learn a lot from hearing their prayers. Many of the prayers given by men often incorrectly presume on the views of the congregation. If someone is praying on behalf of others, they really should be thoughtful and reflect the general views of those ones. I won't go into all the odd expressions used in prayers that have left me wondering whether I can really say "amen" afterwards" No doubt someone could make a big thing of those expressions .
As to a succession of prayers by individuals, if that is what is being implied by some of the comments, that sounds like it could get a bit "Pentecostal" to me, although I cannot really object in principle. Soory, but that is the only way I could describe it.
However, there are a number of occasions in the scriptures when prayer on behalf of others would have been appropriate and used.
1. When Israel sinned (1 kings 8:33) they were expected to pray and ask for favour.
2. When Jesus prayed over the bread and wine at the last supper.
3. Jesus encouraged us to pray in our private rooms. That seems appropriate for personal prayers. James 5:14 speaks about praying over the sick one.
I am sure God hears all prayers offered sincerely, whether individual or on behalf of others. Both can be appropriate, and since the scriptures indicate that all in the congregation could pray when they were gathered together, then I would be only too happy if the women in the congregation share in doing this, and not just when no men are available.
More details on those Boroean meetings might be useful.
Love and greetings to all.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2019-11-28 08:36:18
I have had similar concerns, Leonardo. How do we keep this from getting out of hand? When we meet on Sunday at noon Eastern standard Time, we set aside an hour for Bible reading and commentary. We have opened with prayer and closed with prayer until now as a way of book ending the formal meeting, since discussion goes on long afterwards. However, the only reason we started doing that was because that's what we did when we were in the organization.
I guess the idea is that we pray so that the spirit is with us in the meeting, but I think the Spirit is with us always. We don't have to invoke it as if to say it's not with us now unless we call for it. The fact that we are meeting together to speak about the Lord is sufficient for him to be present. He does not need a telephone call to notify him to join in. Sorry, I don't mean to be flippant. I guess what I'm trying to say in a somewhat ham-handed way is that I don't see the need for a prayer to open the meeting. Not against the idea. Just don't see it as a requirement. I do see a great benefit from allowing different ones to pray. Especially at the end of the meeting after having considered whatever portion of the Bible we've been studying that week. I'm sure many will be moved in one way or another and will want to express their gratitude to our Lord and our Father.
I'm not too worried however. When I started this arrangement, my concern was how to deal with rambunctious elements that might enter into the meeting and cause disturbance since pretty much anyone with a phone can join in if they know the code. However, my concerns turned out to be unfounded. I did not need to police the meeting, since all in attendance that that. I saw very quickly that the community acted as one and I put this down to the spirit that pervades our group. So, I think similar situation will exist if we open the floor to prayer by anyone. I don't think it will become a free-for-all, nor a showy display of false piety. I don't believe that will be the case if the spirit really dwells within us, as I believe it does.
I guess we'll just have to take a leap of faith.Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-28 12:20:10
Don't worry Meleti, we know you are not a "Petecostal" type (as Leonardo Josephus mentioned he does not want want that kind of prayer session). I am being humorous, as that certainly is not your style, nor the style of the great majority of us who have prayed in the past in group settings.
Thank you for encouraging us to take a leap of faith and feel like we will do what is right, and not abuse the privilege of prayer.... somehow in the same way as our Father knew that his son would succeed to be the Christ. Don't get me wrong, I am not elevating you to either position, just referencing that there is a degree of faith that we can all have in each other as mature Christians, as part of the family of our Father.
We appreciate and value your efforts so much! May our Father bless you always!
Reply by Olive on 2020-02-02 09:24:47
Hello Everyone. I am interested in the Sunday meeting. Is it possible for a new member to join?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-02-03 09:47:48
It is. I'll send you the connection info by email.
Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-28 12:09:43
Hello Leonardo Josephus,
I so enjoyed reading your comment. Thank you very much for expressing your views. I am so loving this exchange with everyone on this subject topic because it allows us to think for ourselves and more deeply perhaps, since now we cannot just roll back the marble, or parrot a paragraph.
I know what you mean about sometimes wondering about whether you should have said "amen" or not, according to the old structure, especially the intent of one who was giving some sort of concluding talk.....as a prayer.
I appreciated your reference to 1 Kings 8:33. I need to think on that one. I also thought of one that came to mind as I was reading your comment. That was when Jehovah asked Job to pray for his false comforters. They all were involved in order to achieve a successful outcome: "After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did what the LORD had told them, and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer." Job 42:7-9 ESV
I love this happy ending and Job was willing to pray for his tormenters like Jesus told us to pray for those who persecute us.
Love to you all!
Reply by Frankie on 2019-11-30 18:13:09
Hello LJ,
Thank you for notifying me of Solomon's prayer in 1 King, Chapter 8. If you will, I will try to explain what I meant, maybe I used a bad wording.
Prayer for the individual
-----------------------------
I think it is wrong to pray "in the name" of someone, and to actually replace the other before God. I cannot represent you before God because everyone is personally responsible to God for himself.
I cannot stand before God and pray "in your name” instead of you, because I do not know in detail the state of your mind, your needs or your possibilities.
In my opinion, the only exception is to pray "in the name” of Jesus Christ, who made this possible for us.
But I can pray "for you”, for example, that God may give you relief in your illness. I stand before God with prayer as your brother, not you.
Prayer for the group
-------------------------
This is the case with very nice Solomon's prayer:
"Let your eyes be open to the plea of your servant and to the plea of your people Israel, giving ear to them whenever they call to you."
(1 King 8:52).
Here Solomon prays for himself and at the same time for the whole nation (i.e. for each individual from Israel).
The object of his prayer is undoubtedly in the interest of every Hebrew. It is OK.
Here I had a problem with an opening and closing prayer at a JW meeting where a brother asks and thanks for 20 things in prayer and his prayer sometimes reflects his own thoughts, desire or ideas that may not coincide with those of mine.
Then I can agree with everything, but I don't have to. Should I say "amen” or not?
My idea is to start the meeting (because someone should say that we are starting) with a simple general things useful for everyone - acknowledgement (e.g. for we could meet) and asking for a quiet or something like that. No big speeches.
But I admit that it's still open to me. I just don't know exactly yet.
As to some things - I am sure, but there are still many things I want to know - and sometimes as if I heard Jesus: "not yet, for you cannot bear it now " (John 16:12).
So I try [mostly :o)] to wait patiently.
Love to you. Frankie
Reply by louabbott on 2019-11-28 09:33:27
Regarding your point, Frankie, "12 y.o. brother being an authority over a 70 y.o. sister" ...
in the late '80's as a very zealous new JW, I had the great pleasure of being mentored by a very zealous sister who was about 70. We were in a very small congregation. She was very active in the field as I wanted to be. (She was the example that led me to so many years as a pioneer.)
As to be expected, as soon as she realized that I had dedicated my life to Jehovah, she stopped praying in front of me.
While I fully respected the reasons as were, are all still taught by WT organization (and others), It felt really kind of silly. I missed her prayers.
Until this day and this discussion, I have never really given the topic deeper study. I really welcome all of the points made here by you, Eric, and others. I think we are being pointed in a much more freeing, loving, and spiritually beneficial greater understanding. Dare I say, 'new light" on the subject.Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-28 11:39:46
Hello Lou,
I value your insights and read them with great interest. I love to know that you missed that special older sister's prayers after you were baptized. Females have something to offer males; that is why our Father made us male and female. I giggled to read "new light" as we all know what you mean by that ....but having a sense of humor is really, as you say, indicative of being pointed towards and then manifesting a much more freeing, loving, and spiritually greater understanding, is it not?
I was thinking that Meleti is such a great force for light because he knows the value of scripture and sticks to it and yet is not afraid to experience new light in himself. I think what we are all encountering in our discussions about the issue of women praying is that being freed in Christ means that perhaps for the first time we can question what we are as men and women, as we were intended to be, opposite sexes.
The effects of the stamp of imperfection upon us (Genesis 3:16) shows us we are all distorted now in our nature as male and female (and yet the scriptures still make it clear that our genders are never to be blurred as Meleti brought out in his first article about women in God's family). Maybe for a man learning how to grow a taste for the IDEA of being somehow nurtured or complemented by the effects of a woman's prayers upon him, will see his manliness increase and not weaken--for surely knowing the way we are different from the opposite sex makes us stronger in our own!
There is such beauty in feeling new light of thinking and feeling in ourselves and isn't that the true meaning of the righteous growing brighter and brighter? "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining brighter and brighter until midday." Proverbs 4:18. I love this verse because the context contrasts it with the wicked who are stumbling on a dark path, but as we mature and grow and are infused with light, shining brighter and brighter, the shadows of the day are gone. We dispel the shadows of our own ignorance....isn't that what it is all about?
Thank you for being bright and warm as that is the essence of the scripture and the nature of the righteous person as Christ exemplified for us himself. Brightness and warmth are loving, and perfect love throws fear outside --- just like light dispels shadows.
We have to work hard as a spiritual family to encourage and brighten each other. You have encouraged and brightened me for which I am truly grateful.
Love to you all!Reply by louabbott on 2019-11-28 13:48:35
Thanks for your reply, Abigail. Glad I could lighten your day with a giggle.
Comment by Judá Ben-Hur on 2019-11-28 18:18:12
Hola Meleti. Buenas tardes.
Primeramente aprecio la oportunidad de servir como traductor de éstos importantes artículos para nuestros hermanos y hermanas de habla hispana. Después de leer los artículos originales, traducirlos e investigar sobre el tema en Español, concuerdo con lo expresado en los mismos. Sin embargo, solo me preocupa un hecho.
Y lo menciono como tal: Hecho.
En el primer siglo la tendencia de la sociedad era machista y el objetivo era mantener a la mujer doblegada a un segundo o tercer o más bajo plano. Parece ser que en algunas culturas un animal de labranza tenía más valor económico y afectivo que una mujer, incluyendo una esposa. A las hijas se les consideraba "inútiles" por no ser aptas para desarrollar ciertos trabajos, según las costumbres de la época.
Creo firmemente que Pablo trató de evitar una competencia entre Hombres y Mujeres. Por ejemplo: ¿imaginas a una Mujer casada con el Don de profetizar y su marido no en medio de una sociedad machista? Por ello lo de la cobertura en la cabeza, que personalmente considero era física. Posiblemente provenga de la costumbre Judía de cubrirse los varones al entrar al Templo como señal de humildad. Pero bueno, los Dones terminaron, por lo que no debemos tener tal problema en la actualidad.
Sin embargo, actualmente la influencia de la sociedad dió un giro de 180 grados con respecto al primer siglo: ahora hay un "Femi-nazismo" radical tal como parece ser que existía en Éfeso con Artemisa. Gracias a esas ideas los roles sociales, biológicos, psicológicos y familiares de hombres y mujeres se han perdido totalmente y puede generar un problema de competencia dentro de la Congregación. Debemos todos evitar estas conductas dañinas, recordemos que tanto las hermanas como los hermanos tenemos la obligación de mantener limpia la Iglesia de influencias negativas.
Será duro quitarse las telarañas del adoctrinamiento "watchtoweriano", pero el objetivo que es seguir el ejemplo y alabar al Señor Jesús hará que valga la pena.
Comment by Psalmbee on 2019-11-29 08:10:46
Okay, so far so good. This all works out well for congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, but what about the rest of the world? Personally I would rather have a straight Woman praying for the congregation than a gay man , transgender, lesbian or whatever other kind of alternates there are out there. I'm not gay, I don't believe in being gay, so I don't let them on the bus, not even to sit in the back. Am I being prejudice or am I following Bible principle? The point is, y'all are dealing with only one kind of congregation. Are you not letting the others on the bus either, or are you saying it's okay to come in but you have to sit in the back?
Psalmbee, (1Tim 3:2)Reply by Abigail on 2019-11-30 12:39:32
Hi Psalmbee,
I hear you. I understand what you mean. I believe everyone on the bus should be free to share and learn if they want to. Isn't that the loving thing to do? The point of Jesus' teachings are to help us understand that there is a truth that everyone can know (John 8:31,32). Jesus said that everyone who wants to know will learn it if they keep trying. But learning is progressive, right? Anyone who is a fine cook or a computer programmer or a ballerina studies the tools of their arts and practices using them for a long time.
Many people sharing on this site are discussing topics that they have studied for a long time. They are dedicated students of the Bible and strive to know the true relationship between our Heavenly Father, his son, the congregations and between men and women. They are not satisfied with being governed by a group of men who follow traditions of religion (which are power trips) rather than spiritual truths (which are based on love)--it is those religions that exclude people and don't let them on the bus or let them even talk. Jesus once said that traditions make God's word invalid: "...you nullify the word of God by the tradition that you have handed down." Mark 7:13 He also said about people who claimed to be righteous and honorable in their religious ways: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’" Matthew 15:8,9.
Psalmbee, you will not find many people on this platform who are in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses (as you mention above), because that religious group is easily identified as following the commands of men, 8 men in particular. In fact, if the members of that religion do not accept the commands of these men as being a self appointed channel of Almighty God, then they are shunned. Real seekers after truth aren't going to be stuck in traditions of men. That means they will be getting on a bunch of buses, sitting in the back, looking for the right place to go......they will keep searching until they find their people, and they will be identified by the love they show to each other.
The thing about learning Bible truth is that it is very exciting and thrilling to the heart, to the mind, and to the will to act in a certain way. It is all about knowing the integrated way of a love of giving. A group of people who are well studied in Bible truths (though not simply academic intellects) will invite anyone to visit, anyone on any bus, and that person will learn progressively if they want to. In life, we always exert ourselves to learn and excel like we all did when we started to crawl as babies and then run as children. The apostle Paul said that we are really running a race to the real life, to an incredibly beautiful and fulfilling life that will be ours if we do the work to find it (there is a map and lots of travel though--1 Corinthians 9:24,25) and accept it as a gift for which we are truly grateful.
The beautiful thing is that we will have many loving friends to help us find the way to the true life. Will you take my hand? I offer it to you.
Wishing you peace!
AbigailReply by Psalmbee on 2019-11-30 22:03:32
Hello Abigail,
Thank you for hearing me, and may I say it's always nice to be understood. Learning is progressive,
You said,
"The beautiful thing is that we will have many loving friends to help us find the way to the true life. Will you take my hand? I offer it to you."
Such a bold and humble offering.... "I'll be on your side, you be on my side, I'll take your hand, you take my hand, together we may get away".... to the true life.
I like the way true life sounds and thank you for calling it for what it actually is.
Like some other reviewers here, I'm enjoying your comments. They have a distinct tone of maturity, that I can very much appreciate and respect.
Kind Love,
Psalmbee,
Comment by lazarus on 2019-11-30 01:03:12
Thanks Eric,
I’m agreeing with your reasons given. Before I read your article, I had already reached a very similar conclusion.
To me if God wanted the bible to only be read by legal minds or interpreted by legal minds, it would leave us normal folk with no hope and Easily exploited. Instead in his wisdom, he flipped it on its head and allowed anyone no matter their education level to grasp his words, as a loving father would.
Jesus once said , tradition made Gods words invalid. Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”
We have the NT documents to guide us with the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Allow the The Spirit to direct us. That would be my only suggestion.
Thanks I’ve enjoyed these articles as it really is showing our Lord we value our sisters and only want them to grow in the fullness of Christ and contribute to the body in service of others as fellow workers.