This is part 9 of our analysis of Matthew chapter 24.
I was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness. I grew up believing the end of the world was imminent; that within a few years, I would be living in paradise. I was even given a time calculation to help me gauge just how close I was to that new world. I was told that the generation Jesus spoke of at Matthew 24:34 saw the start of the last days in 1914 and would still be around to see the end. By the time I was twenty, in 1969, that generation was as old as I am now. Of course, that was based on the belief that to be part of that generation, you’d have to have been an adult in 1914. As we got into the 1980s, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses had to make some adjustments. Now the generation started as children old enough to understand the meaning of the events of 1914. When that didn’t work, the generation counted as people born on or before 1914.
As that generation died off, the teaching was abandoned. Then, about ten years ago, they brought it back to life in the form of a super-generation, and are again saying that based on the generation, the end is imminent. This reminds me of the Charlie Brown cartoon where Lucy keeps conning Charlie Brown to kick the football, only to snatch it away at the last moment.
Exactly just how stupid do they think we are? Apparently, very stupid.
Well, Jesus did speak about a generation not dying off before the end. What was he referring to?
“Now learn this illustration from the fig tree: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.” (Matthew 24:32-35 New World Translation)
Did we just get the start year wrong? Is it not 1914? Maybe 1934, assuming we count from 587 B.C.E., the actual year the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem? Or is it some other year?
You can see the enticement to apply this to our day. Jesus did say, “he is near at the doors”. One naturally assumes he was talking about himself in the third person. If we accept that premise, then where Jesus speaks of recognizing the season, we can assume that the signs would be manifest for all of us to see, just like we can all see the leaves sprouting that indicate summer is near. Where he references, “all these things”, we might assume he is speaking about all the things he included in his answer, like wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes. Therefore, when he says “this generation” will not pass away until all these things happen”, all we need to do is identify the generation in question and we have our time measurement.
But if that is the case, then why can’t we do that. Look at the mess left in the wake of the failed generation teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Over a hundred years of disappointment and disillusionment resulting in the loss of faith of countless individuals. And now they have concocted this truly stupid overlapping generation doctrine, hoping to get us to take one more kick at the football.
Would Jesus really mislead us so, or are we the ones misleading ourselves, and ignoring his warnings?
Let’s take a deep breath, relax our mind, clear away all the debris from Watchtower interpretations and re-interpretations, and just let the Bible speak to us.
The fact is that our Lord does not lie, nor does he contradict himself. That basic truth must now guide us if we are going to figure out what he is referring to when he says, “he is near at the doors”.
A good start in determining the answer to that question is to read the context. Perhaps the verses that follow Matthew 24:32-35 will shed some light on the subject.
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect. (Matthew 24: 36-44)
Jesus begins by telling us that even he didn’t know when he would return. To further clarify the importance of that, he compares the time of his return to the days of Noah when the entire world was oblivious to the fact their world was about to end. So, the modern world will also be oblivious to his return. It is hard to be oblivious if there are signs signaling his imminent arrival, like the Coronavirus. Ergo, the Coronavirus is not a sign that Christ is about to return. Why, because most fundamentalist and evangelical Christians—including Jehovah’s Witnesses—see it as just such a sign ignoring the fact that Jesus said, “the Son of man will come at an hour you do not expect.” Are we clear on that? Or do we think Jesus was just fooling around? Playing with words? I don’t think so.
Of course, human nature will cause some to say, “Well, the world may be oblivious but his followers are awake, and they will perceive the sign.”
Who do we think Jesus was talking to when he said—I like the way the New World Translation puts it—when he said “…the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.” He was talking to his disciples, not the oblivious world of mankind.
We now have one fact that is beyond dispute: We cannot predict when our Lord will return. We can even go so far as to say that any prediction is sure to be wrong, because if we predict it, we will be expecting it, and if we are expecting it, then he won’t come, because he said—and I don’t think we can say this often enough—he will come when we do not expect him to come. Are we clear on that?
Not quite? Perhaps we think there’s some loophole? Well, we wouldn’t be alone in that view. His disciples didn’t get it either. Remember, he said all this just before he was killed. Yet, just forty days later, when he was about to ascend to heaven, they asked him this:
“Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6)
Amazing! Barely a month before, he had told them that even he himself didn’t know when he’d return, and then he added that he’d come at an unexpected time, yet, they are still looking for an answer. He answered them, all right. He told them it was none of their business. He put it this way:
“It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” (Acts 1:7)
“Wait a minute”, I can still hear someone say. “Wait just a goll-dang minute! If we are not supposed to know, then why did Jesus give us the signs and tell us that it would all happen within one generation?
The answer is, he didn’t. We are misreading his words.
Jesus doesn’t lie, nor does he contradict himself. Therefore, there is no contradiction between Matthew 24:32 and Acts 1:7. Both speak about seasons, but they cannot be speaking of the same seasons. At Acts, the times and seasons pertain to the coming of Christ, his kingly presence. These are placed in God’s jurisdiction. We are not to know these things. It belongs to God to know, not us. Therefore, the seasonal changes spoken of at Matthew 24:32 which signal when “he is near at the doors” cannot refer to the presence of Christ, because these are seasons which Christians are allowed to perceive.
Further evidence of this is seen when we again look at verses 36 to 44. Jesus makes it abundantly clear that his arrival will be so unexpected that even those looking for it, his faithful disciples, will be surprised. Even though we will be prepared, we will still be surprised. You can prepare for the thief by staying awake, but you will still get a start when he breaks in, because the thief makes no announcement.
Since Jesus will come when we least expect it, Matthew 24:32-35 cannot be referring to his arrival since everything there indicates there are going to be signs and a timeframe to measure by.
When we see the leaves changing we are expecting summer to come. We’re not surprised by it. If there is a generation that will witness all things, then we are expecting all things to happen within a generation. Again, if we are expecting it to happen within some timeframe, then it cannot be referring to the presence of Christ because that comes when we least expect it.
All of this is so obvious now, that you might wonder how Jehovah’s Witnesses missed it. How did I miss it? Well, the Governing Body has a little trick up its sleeve. They point to Daniel 12:4 which says “Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant”, and they claim that now is the time for the knowledge to become abundant, and that knowledge includes understanding the times and seasons that Jehovah has put in his own jurisdiction. From the Insight book we have this:
The lack of understanding concerning Daniel’s prophecies in the early part of the 19th century indicated that this foretold “time of the end” was yet future, since those “having insight,” God’s true servants, were to understand the prophecy in “the time of the end.”—Daniel 12:9, 10.
(Insight, Volume 2 p. 1103 Time of the End)
The problem with this reasoning is they have the wrong “time of the end”. The last days that Daniel speaks of pertain to the final days of the Jewish system of things. If you doubt that, then please see this video where we analyze the evidence for that conclusion in detail.
That being said, even if you want to believe that Daniel chapters 11 and 12 have a fulfillment in our day, that still doesn’t undo Jesus’ words to the disciples that the times and seasons concerning his arrival were something that belonged only to the Father to know. After all, “knowledge becoming abundant” doesn’t mean all knowledge is revealed. There are many things in the Bible we don’t understand—even today, because it is not the time for them to be understood. What impertinence to think that God would take knowledge that he concealed from his own Son, the 12 apostles and all First Century Christians endowed with the gifts of the spirit—gifts of prophecy and revelation—and reveal it to the likes of Stephen Lett, Anthony Morris III, and the rest of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Indeed, if he had revealed it to them, why do they keep getting it wrong? 1914, 1925, 1975, to name just a few, and now the Overlapping Generation. I mean, if God is revealing the true knowledge concerning the signs of Christ’s coming, why do we keep getting it so very, very wrong? Is God inept in his power to communicate truth? Is he playing tricks on us? Having a good time at our expense as we scramble around preparing for the end, only to have it replaced with a new date?
That is not the way of our loving Father.
So, what does Matthew 24:32-35 apply to?
Let’s break it down into its component parts. Let’s start with the first point. What did Jesus mean by “he is near at the doors”.
The NIV renders this “it is near” not “he is near”; likewise, the King James Bible, New Heart English Bible, Douay-Rheims Bible, Darby Bible Translation, Webster’s Bible Translation, World English Bible, and Young’s Literal Translation all render “it” instead of “he”. It is also important to note that Luke does not say “he or it is near at the doors”, but “the kingdom of God is near”.
Isn’t the Kingdom of God the same as Christ’s presence? Apparently not, otherwise, we’d be back into a contradiction. To figure out what “he”, “it”, or “the kingdom of God” relates to in this instance, we should look at the other components.
Let’s start with “all these things”. After all, when they framed the question that started this whole prophecy, they asked Jesus, “Tell us, when will these things be?” (Matthew 24:3).
What things were they referring to? Context, context, context! Let’s look at the context. In the preceding two verses, we read:
“Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”” (Matthew 24:1, 2)
So, when Jesus later says, “this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen”, he’s talking about the same “things”. The destruction of the city and its temple. That helps us understand what generation he’s speaking about.
He says “this generation”. Now if he were talking about a generation that wouldn’t appear for another 2,000 years as Witnesses claim, it is unlikely he’d say “this”. “This” refers to something at hand. Either something physically present, or something contextually present. There was a generation both physically and contextually present, and there can be little doubt that his disciples would have made the connection. Again, looking at the context, he’d just spent the last four days preaching in the temple, condemning the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders, and pronouncing judgment on the city, temple, and people. That very day, the very day they asked the question, upon leaving the temple for the last time, he said:
“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna? For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.” (Matthew 23:33-36)
Now I ask you, if you were there and heard him say this, and then later that same day, on the mount of Olives, you asked Jesus, when would all these things happen—because you’re obviously going to be very anxious to know—I mean, the Lord has just told you all you hold as precious and holy is going to be destroyed—and as part of his answer, Jesus tells you that ‘this generation will not die out before all these things happen’, are you not going to conclude that the people he spoke to in the temple and whom he referred to as “this generation” would be alive to experience the destruction he foretold?
Context!
If we take Matthew 24:32-35 as applying to the first century destruction of Jerusalem, we resolve all the issues and eliminate any apparent contradiction.
But we are still left to resolve who or what is referred to by “he/it is near at the doors”, or as Luke puts it, “the kingdom of God is near”.
Historically, what was near at the doors was the Roman Army led by General Cestius Gallus in 66 C.E. and subsequently by General Titus in 70 C.E. Jesus told us to use discernment and look at the words of Daniel the prophet.
“Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment),” (Matthew 24:15)
Fair enough.
What did the prophet Daniel have to say on the subject?
“You should know and understand that from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks. She will be restored and rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in times of distress. “And after the 62 weeks, Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.” (Daniel 9:25, 26)
The people that destroyed the city and the holy place were the Roman army—the people of the Roman army. The leader of that people was the Roman general. When Jesus was saying “he is near at the doors”, was he referring to that General? But we still have to resolve Luke’s expression that is “the Kingdom of God” is near.
The Kingdom of God existed before Jesus was anointed Christ. The Jews were the Kingdom of God on earth. However, they were going to lose that status, which would be given to Christians.
Here it is taken from Israel:
“This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matthew 21:43)
Here is it given to the Christians:
“He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son,” (Colossians 1:13)
We can enter the Kingdom of God at any time:
“At this Jesus, discerning that he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God.” (Mark 12:34)
The Pharisees were expecting a conquering government. They completely missed the point.
“On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”” (Luke 17:20, 21)
Okay, but what does the Roman army have to do with the Kingdom of God. Well, do we think that the Romans would have been able to destroy the nation of Israel, God’s chosen people, if God had not wanted it to be so?
Consider this illustration:
“In further reply Jesus again spoke to them with illustrations, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man, a king, that made a marriage feast for his son. And he sent forth his slaves to call those invited to the marriage feast, but they were unwilling to come. Again he sent forth other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those invited: “Look! I have prepared my dinner, my bulls and fattened animals are slaughtered, and all things are ready. Come to the marriage feast.”’ But unconcerned they went off, one to his own field, another to his commercial business; but the rest, laying hold of his slaves, treated them insolently and killed them. “But the king grew wrathful, and sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.” (Mt 22:1-7)
Jehovah planned a marriage feast for his Son, and the first invitations went out to his own people, the Jews. However, they refused to attend and worse, they killed his servants. So he sent his armies (the Romans) to kill the murderers and burn their city (Jerusalem). The king did this. The Kingdom of God did this. When the Romans carried out God’s will, the Kingdom of God was near.
In Matthew 24:32-35 as well as Matthew 24:15-22 Jesus gives his disciples specific instructions on what to do and signs to indicate when to prepare for these things.
They saw the Jewish rebellion that drove the Roman garrison from the city. They saw the return of the Roman army. They experienced the turmoil and strife from years of Roman incursions. They saw the first siege of the city and the Roman retreat. They would have been increasingly aware that the end of Jerusalem was approaching. Yet when it comes to his promised presence, Jesus tells us that he will come as a thief at a time when we least expect it. He gives us no signs.
Why the difference? Why did the first century Christians get so much opportunity to prepare? Why don’t Christians today know whether or not they need to prepare for Christ’s presence?
Because they had to prepare and we don’t.
In the case of the first century Christians, they had to take specific action at a specific time. Can you imagine running away from everything you own? One day you wake up and that’s the day. Do you own a house? Leave it. Do you own a business? Walk away. Do you have family and friends who don’t share your belief? Leave them all –leave then all behind. Just like that. And off you go to a far away land you’ve never known and to an uncertain future. All you have is your faith in the love of the Lord.
It would be unloving, to say the least, to expect anyone to do that without giving them some time to prepare for it mentally and emotionally.
So why don’t modern Christians get a similar opportunity to prepare? Why don’t we get all kinds of signs to know that Christ is near? Why does Christ have to come as a thief, at a time we least expect him to arrive? The answer, I believe, lies in the fact that we don’t have to do anything at that moment in time. We don’t have to abandon anything and flee to another place on a moment’s notice. Christ sends his angels to gather us up. Christ will take care of our escape. Our test of faith comes every day in the form of living a Christian life and standing for the principles Christ gave us to follow.
Why do I believe that? What is my scriptural basis? And what about Christ’s presence? When does that happen? The Bible says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:29, 30)
Immediately after that tribulation!? What tribulation? Are we to be looking for signs in our days? When do these words come to their fulfillment, or as Preterists say, have they already been fulfilled? All that will be covered in part 10.
For now, thank you so much for watching.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Chet on 2020-04-23 20:31:20
Simply taking the Bible at face value can bring many things into focus. Jesus told the disciples that they were not allowed to possess information about the timing of his return. It’s that simple.
Over the years, I have stumbled across some interesting nuggets, with regard to Adventism. Going back, at the latest, to the 18th century, people began to speculate about the return of Christ. 1799 was nominated to be the year Jesus returned, and ever since, there have been people that thought they had found the magic math required to extricate the year of Christ’s return from the pages of scripture.
William Miller predicted 1843 as the return of Christ and developed quite a following. People made poor choices, because they wanted to believe that their deliverance was near. So do I. I want to believe that it will come soon, but Acts 1:7 tells me that I’m not going to have any insight into the return of Christ. If Jesus didn’t even know, what chance do I have of figuring it out?
The thinking behind this folly is quite similar to the thinking behind compulsive gambling. A compulsive gambler convinced himself that God, or maybe some overruling force of “luck” will reward a gambler that is tenacious enough. On more than one occasion, I have seen someone buying scratch tickets, going to their car to check for winners, then going back into the store to buy another batch of scratch tickets. In the cases I’ve seen, such people didn’t appear to have any money to spare, yet they were throwing their money away, chasing the vain hope that they would finally see a payoff.
The lottery addict may suffer bankruptcy, but gambling one’s life on the predictions of the Watchtower can have much more dire consequences. I have seen Witnesses that were wavering, that knew there was something wrong with the teachings of the Watchtower, but just could not let go of the irresistible hope that Armageddon would come in their lifetime. It would be great to have such a guarantee, but that guarantee does not appear in scripture.
I saw 1975 first hand. While I did not promote the idea of ‘75 being the end, I was still affected by it, because I was surrounded by people that hoped it would be the end. And the JW Organization has to offer. The honest hope of a restored earth is in the Bible. It is not unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Watchtower has claimed that hope as uniquely theirs and uses it to hold hostage their membership. They managed to convince a lot of people that 1975 was a likely time for Armageddon to come and some of those people made very poor choices, based upon that information. 45 years later, they don’t seem to have learned a thing. It is indeed, just like Charlie Brown falling for Lucy’s trick one more time.
Perhaps the most egregious thing is that they deliberately went back to this sort of teaching, after having all but repudiated the 1914 doctrine. It is the same mentality as the compulsive gambler that just can’t believe that luck will not favor him, next time. To say that this is foolish is obvious, but less obvious is the fact that it is essentially an addiction to unwarranted hope.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-04-24 12:09:04
Another quality discussion, Eric. Let us hope many read and digest it.
May I add a little bit of history and my own thoughts on "he is near at the doors". The two things are not connected.
The history part relates to the Aldbury Park conferences and Henry Drummond, from 1826, and the Powerscourt estate conferences a few years later. No one seems to refer to these, but they are right at the centre of things, as they were clearly focused on second Adventism. The Powerscourt conferences led to the Plymouth Brethren and John Darby, who was responsible for what many consider to be a fine translation of the Bible. These are just little bits of seldom mentioned history. Just to help as appreciate that there were many people searching at that time.
My thought on Matthew 24:34 were that this expression simply referred to Jesus watching over the early Christians to ensure their escape, making a way out when the Romans came or were about to come. It is merely to remind his followers that he told them all these things in advance and if they remembered that, then they could have confidence that he would look after them. It doesn't matter whether it Jesus (he) or the Kingdom (it), as either way it is Jesus who who was acting.
Just a thought.Reply by Chet on 2020-04-24 13:26:05
Those are excellent points. The rise of Adventism was not limited to one specific group of people. There were a lot of different theories, some of which withered and were forgotten, but some which prospered and spawned follow-on theories. I tend to think of Russell as a second-generation, Second Adventist. The Seventh Day Adventists also came about, somewhat as a follow-on to Miller's teachings. Basically, each group looked at the failures of past predictions, then tried predictions of their own, correcting what they thought had gone wrong with their predecessor's theories. Ultimately, they all failed and failed for the same reason; we can't know something Christ didn't even know.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-04-24 16:50:57
An excellent point, Leonardo. You are quite right that it doesn't really matter exactly what Jesus was referring to. What mattered for them was that they got the message of assurance that he meant to import, particularly by verse 35, and what matters to us is that we not try to make it into a secondary fulfillment in an attempt to predict when Jesus will return. Been there, done that, right??
Comment by marielle on 2020-04-28 11:18:50
Éric
Tu dis :
Par conséquent, les changements saisonniers dont parle Matthieu 24:32 qui indiquent quand «il est près des portes» ne peuvent pas se référer à la présence du Christ, car ce sont des saisons que les chrétiens sont autorisés à percevoir.
Comment dès lors, comprendre Jacques 5 : 7-9
Qui semble associer sa présence, au fait « qu’il est proche aux portes » ou « Le juge se tient à la porte »
Jacques 5 : 7-9
7 Patientez donc, frères, JUSQU’À LA PRESENCE DU SEIGNEUR. Voyez ! Le cultivateur attend le précieux produit de la terre, il l’attend patiemment jusqu’à ce qu’arrivent la pluie d’automne et la pluie de printemps+. 8 Vous aussi patientez+ ; affermissez vos cœurs, parce que LA PRÉSENCE DU SEIGNEUR APPROCHE.
9 Ne grognez* pas les uns contre les autres, frères, pour ne pas être condamnés+. Voyez ! LE JUGE SE TIENT A LA PORTE.
Le cultivateur, bien qu’ayant vu la pluie d’automne et de printemps, a récolté le précieux fruit, sans voir « LA PROCHE PRÉSENCE DU SEIGNEUR, LE JUGE A LA PORTE».
Cela signifie qu’elle VIENDRA ASSURÉMENT.
AUSSI VRAI que sont venues les pluies d’automne et de printemps, et que le cultivateur a récolté son précieux fruit, nous devons patiemment attendre sa présence.
Ne peut-on de la même manière, calquer simplement, l’exemple du figuier sur celle du cultivateur ?
Sa présence n’est-elle pas associée au jugement qui rend irréprochables les saints ?
I Thessaloniciens 3 : 13
« afin qu’il puisse rendre vos cœurs fermes, irréprochables en sainteté devant notre Dieu+ et Père LORS DE LA PRÉSENCE DE NOTRE SEIGNEUR JÉSUS AVEC TOUS SES SAINTS ».
Ne faut-il pas venir avant d’être présent ?
Que Jésus vienne avec « puissance et grande gloire » dans une extraordinaire présence, rassembler ceux qu’il a choisis, ne me semble pas incompatible avec la comparaison du figuier.
Amitiés fraternelles.
Comment by Eric Thorp on 2020-04-24 05:27:05
Thanks Eric nicely reasoned. This teaching among others really undermined my faith and confidence in the bible and in Jehovah. This article should be sufficient to wake up every JW if they read it.
Comment by chicho on 2020-04-24 18:09:14
Y como nos atrae la Organizacion? Como es que estamos millones de personas cegadas? Porque la Organizacion nos promete lo que nos hace falta, ellos saben que es lo que queremos y nos lo prometen mediante la biblia. Tengo 22 años conociendo a la organizacion, tengo 15 años de bautizado, actualmente soy un PIMO que desperte hace un año. Hace 20 años se nos hablaba que en el año 2000 se vendria armagedon (todo en los 90s estaba inundado con esa informacion), luego cuando fue las torres gemelas muchos indicaban que el rey del Norte eran los arabes (resulto que ahora es Rusia de nuevo), se creia que el esclavo fiel y discreto eran todos los ungidos (con un golpe de autoridad hace pocos años el cuerpo gobernante de 8 personas dijo que el esclavo solo son ellos 8, los demas son locos o enfermos mentales, no les crean a los que tomen emblemas dicho hace un mes), se nos decia que los Bienes del esclavo instalaciones etc etc fueron dados en 1919 (ahora resulta que no, que seran dados despues de la gran tribulacion), se nos decia que la informacion provenia de Dios y que toda publicacion era instruccion de Dios, incluso el libro Organizados pagina 61-63 mencionaba que Dios daba revelaciones en el estudio de la Atalaya (en 2017 dijeron que no es asi que ellos no son inspirados), se nos decia que la Cristiandad era inmunda por tener contactos politicos, clase clerical y pederastas (en 2015 se encontraron mil abusadores sexuales en Australia, se calcula que en estados unidos hay 15 mil!!!!, la Organizacion gasta miles de millones de dls en evitar demandas, han exigido el secreto clerical, y se unieron a la ONU hace tiempo), daban muchos Tipos y Antitipos para cumplir la biblia a lo que ellos les convenia (resulta que Splaine dice hace pocos años que ya no existe los Tipos y Antitpos, pero lo siguen aplicando cuando ellos quieren), Jamas me mencionaron que Jesus NO es mi mediador (pero si lo dice el Perspicacia de forma sutil y una atalaya de los 70s de forma contundente), se nos decia que eramos como Langostas predicando contra el mundo de satanas (resulto que las langostas era el mundo de satanas y sus gobiernos), se nos decia que eramos Amigos de Dios (ahora en las dos ultimos estudios de atalaya dice que Dios es nuestro Padre engañando que supuestamente somos hijos pero no lo dicen claro porque su teologia sigue siendo que solo ungidos son Hijos), jamas nadie en estos mas de 20 años ha sido bautizado alguien en el nombre del padre, del hijo y del espiritu santo (el año pasado incluso cambiaron la segunda pregunta que casi casi dice que en nombre de la Organizacion), se nos decia que ancianos y ministeriales eran nombrados por Dios bajo espiritu santo por el esclavo fiel en Brooklyn (hace poco cambiaron esto y solo el superintendente es el que nombra el privilegio de una persona).
Cuantos cambios mas en tan solo 20 años???? Muchisimos mas, ahora usted hermano Wilson en casi 50 años deben ser increibles y mas notorios. Pero pprque no despertamos?? (Hablo por los 8 millones que siguen), porque nos adoctrinan con miedo, porque nos apartan de cualquier amistad y familia ajena a esa religion, pprque son abusadores con violencia mental y psicologica. Estoy seguro mediante la biblia que Jesus no aprobaria sus doctrinas!!!!! Y les diria "ustedes proceden de su Padre prole de viboras que ponen cargas en mis ovejitas, los libere de una Ley y les impusieron mas leyes"Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-04-25 08:34:56
Bien dicho, Chicho
Comment by exquisite inquisite on 2020-04-25 04:05:51
Thank you Eric for you series on this chapter. I’ve been scouring through Mathews, Luke’s and Marks account on this for some time now, trying to understand the timescales as they jump forward and back and forward and back.
It’s very hard to readjust my thinking on this as it’s been put in my mind from birth that all these signs relate to our day, but now it starting to make a lot more sense which is so refreshing.
I had only last week come to terms with my own understanding of the generation which I was quite happy with, and now from just seeing your video, has got me questioning it again. It’s not easy to explain in text instead of reading it aloud to grasp but I will give it my best shot.
I would like your opinion on it, whether you think from your perspective it is plausible if possible?
Firstly, in a nutshell, I had settled on the generation that will not pass away, will be the generation that witnesses Jesus coming.
From the way I understand it
Matt 24 : 29-31 describes the events to take place on his arrival, and everyone will see these things happening as they unfold.
Then in verse 32-33 it says that by seeing those things we know what “season” we are in, and that it/he is near at the doors.
Then 34 says that this generation that sees those things in 29-31 will not pass away.
It’s as if when Jesus arrives, the process of it could be a substantial amount of time.
This helps me as the timescales fit into just two areas, past and future. Putting a very large full stop at the end of verse 28. That is where he finishes talking about Jerusalem in their day, then from 29 onwards, he’s talking about his future coming.
Now from watching this video I can see how yours fits also, and had been fairly settled on my own new thoughts on it.
I’d very much appreciate yours and anyone else’s opinions on this. I’m enjoying this site and everybody’s inputs, and looking forward to continuing on my bible study journey with you all.
exquisite inquisiteReply by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-04-25 06:55:24
Hi Exquisite, Like you I found it hard to work out the timing of Jesus words from verse 29 onwards. I thought Barnes notes on the subject pretty helpful as regards the timing of the events around the fall of Jerusalem. Verses 29-31 are surely be fulfilled in the days after the fall of Jerusalem, The verses that follow and the whole of chapter 35, will be fulfilled when Jesus comes, which has not yet happened. That is as far as I can get, which makes it frustrating to wonder why Jesus has left things for so long.
Just my thoughts, and, like you, all corrections will be appreciated.Reply by exquisite inquisite on 2020-04-25 19:07:25
Hi Leonardo
Yes I’ve found it quite frustrating at first, as I can read it through and totally convince myself I understand it one way, and then when I read it through with someone else, it can sound just as convincing another way. I had a discussion with my father in law and he had it set in his mind how it all panned out, then when I read it to him the way I saw it, I got his head scratching again!
Ultimately, I don’t think it is that important whether it’s the generation that witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem or the generation that witnesses Jesus arriving on the clouds. What does matter is that it has nothing to do with 1914 and the crazy doctrine they are trying to hold on to .
Let’s see what Eric comes up with on Friday.
All the best
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-04-25 08:38:59
I struggled with "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." for years. I think I see it now. Stay tuned for Part 10. ?
Reply by exquisite inquisite on 2020-04-25 19:16:13
I would assume that the “immediately after the tribulation of those days” would include the days right up to his coming? ...as we’ve been in great tribulation ever since those days ?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-04-25 08:31:30
Hi Exquisite, I plan to release Part 10 on Friday which will cover verses 23 thru 31 and I hope help clear up some of your questions.
Your brother in Christ,
MeletiReply by exquisite inquisite on 2020-04-25 18:51:27
Looking forward to it .
Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-04-25 09:51:46
In that case, I look forward to part 10 too.
Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-04-26 04:45:14
Deleted and moved it.
Comment by Vox Ratio on 2020-04-25 23:29:02
Hi LJ,
Prophecy usually seems like so much hard work. Still, since there is a relationship between Jesus and prophecy, getting to know the latter should help equip us in getting to know the former (Rev. 19:10c); and that's definitely worth the work.
If I may, I'd like to offer an alternative opinion to the view you outlined. You stated:
Verses 29-31 are surely be fulfilled in the days after the fall of Jerusalem...
I'd like to suggest that it is possible to see these verses as having been fulfilled at the fall of Jerusalem and that the language used by Jesus involved lucid Old Testament tropes that can also be found amongst other Jewish apocalyptic pronouncements. In fact, it appears that Jesus was borrowing the exact same language that Isaiah used when pronouncing judgement upon Babylon (Isa. 13:10). Indeed, given that cosmic language of this sort was deployed against a people who everyone knew were destroyed, is it too much to think that Jesus' own use of such cosmic language would be any different regarding a people who would be destroyed?
Noteworthy too is that Jesus' use of the cloud rider motif is also found in Isaiah, and it is one that is generally agreed upon by commentators as representing the imagery of judgement (Isa. 19:1). Hence, if Christ is harkening his listeners back to Isaiah again (as he appeared to be doing in the preceding verse), then he might just be trying to emphasise a similar judgement motif as well.
More specifically, however, it seems that in Matthew 24:30 Jesus was placing primary emphasis on Daniel's Son of Man prophecy (Dan. 7:13f). What this would mean is that Jesus was proleptically placing himself into this scene in order to emphasise the outworking of the Kingdom of God and the vindication of himself as the Jewish messiah – particularly amongst those who were about to put him to death. If this is the case, then these ones would finally recognise that Jesus was the fulfilment of Daniel's Son of Man prophecy when he came in judgement against them as the bona fide king of God's kingdom (cf. Lu. 21:31). After all, did he not say to his persecutors that "you" will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds (Mat. 26:64)? What's more, did not John the Baptist also say that these same enemies were like chaff that Jesus would burn with fire (Mat. 3:12)? If Christ's oppressors really did see this as he said they would, then this must have been an experience within their own lifetime and one in which they would come to recognise their impending doom.
Regarding the sign of the Son of Man in heaven in vs. 30a, what if this sign "just is" the ensuing apocalyptic judgement and fulfilment of Daniel's Son of Man prophecy? In actual fact, to fulfil Daniel's prophecy would be proof positive that the Son of Man was “in” heaven since that is where the prophetic fulfilment was recorded to take place anyway. Consequently, since Daniel's prophecy was to be fulfilled in heaven, and if such a fulfilment was accompanied by judgement, then the sign might not be something extrinsic to the ensuing context, but rather something exemplified within the context itself.
Finally, concerning the gathering of the elect in vs. 31, although Psalm 98 describes God's righteous judgements being accompanied with trumpet blasts, given that the context describes the gathering of Christ's chosen ones it seems more likely that this trumpet blast parallels the ancient practice of heralding a call to Israel so as to be gathered together before God (Num. 10:7). Since Israel was formerly called to stand before God by the use of trumpets, Jesus may have been incorporating familiar Jewish allusions when denoting the gathering of faithful Israel out of – and away from – the inevitable destruction of unfaithful Israel.
At any rate, while the preceding view makes sense of much of Jesus' language using OT parallels, it is nonetheless just one tentative option among many. Nevertheless, this might be one way to tidy up the sequencing within the Olivet discourse and therefore allow Matthew 24:36 and following to speak univocally about the return of Christ and the consummation of the age.Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-04-26 07:18:40
Hi Vox. I apprecaited your references to Isaiah. Very helpful. As regards verses 29-31, my comments were intended to imply that these words were all part of the 70 CE fulfillment. That is why I also referred to Barnes notes. I thought the reference to how I understood verse 33 (He is near the doors) would have implied that, as I also believe that vs 32-5 were also fulfilled with the fall o Jerusalem.
Still waiting to fully understand all the verses which follow after that, and hope Eric will shed some more light on them.Reply by Vox Ratio on 2020-04-26 07:46:00
Hi LJ,
Please accept my sincere apologies, my brother. It seems that I misunderstood just how far after the fall of Jerusalem you were applying those verses to.
I stand corrected, and appreciate you pointing it out.
Comment by Fani on 2020-04-29 06:27:48
Matthieu 24:34-35
[34]Je vous le dis en vérité, cette génération ne passera point, que tout cela n`arrive.
[35]Le ciel et la terre passeront, mais mes paroles ne passeront point."
Jésus veut mettre l'accent NON sur une notion de TEMPS mais de CERTITUDE.
AUSSI VRAI que cette génération passera (c'est certain cette génération mourra ; il vient d'annoncer que Jérusalem serait detruite ; ils vont le voir et il l'a déjà annoncé Math 23 : 36) AUSSI VRAI les paroles du Christ s'accompliront.
Pour appuyer cette certitude il le redit d'une autre manière : "le ciel et la terre passeront mais mes paroles ne passeront point". JÉSUS DIT LA MÊME CHOSE D'UNE AUTRE MANIÈRE. IL INSISTE, C'EST Sûr ça va se réaliser !
Aussi vrai que...
Aux versets 34/35 Jesus ne parle plus de Jérusalem mais de sa venue Math 24 :27,30 ; "car la présence du Fils de l’homme sera comme l’éclair qui brille de l’est jusqu’à l’ouest. .. Alors le signe du Fils de l’homme apparaîtra dans le ciel, et tous les peuples de la terre se frapperont la poitrine en se lamentant, et ils verront le Fils de l’homme venir sur les nuages du ciel avec puissance et grande gloire. "
2 certitudes :
- cette génération mourra, passera (ps 103 :15,16 de toutes les façons toutes les générations s'en vont)
- mes paroles se réaliseront (concernant sa venue)
Jésus utilise 2 négations ; on peut les transformer en 2 affirmations : cette génération passera, tout cela arrivera.
Lorsqu'il parle de la période de Noé il met l'accent sur le fait que les hommes ne croient pas en la venue du déluge.
Puis il parle de l'esclave qui pense qu'il tarde ; il ne croit pas qu' il va arriver.
Le problème chez les humains, c'est la foi. Sommes nous CERTAINS que ces choses vont arriver ?
Jésus nous en donne la CERTITUDE ! Math 5 : 18 "Vraiment, je vous dis que le ciel et la terre disparaîtraient plutôt que ne disparaisse de la Loi une seule toute petite lettre ou même un bout de lettre sans que toutes choses arrivent."
Comme l'a fait Jéhovah à Habacuc "Car la vision est encore pour son temps fixé,... Car elle se réalisera sans faute.Elle ne sera pas en retard !"
On ne sait pas quand il viendra mais on est sûr qu'il viendra.
Soyons donc prêts, éveillés sans se perdre dans des calculs de temps inutiles.Reply by Chet on 2020-04-29 23:04:41
Wonderful point! People think prophecy is about foretelling the future, but it's also about God's promises and how we can recognize how they are being fulfilled. It's not like God is giving us a cheat sheet so we can place advantageous wagers. It's about how his promises are fulfilled.
Comment by frankvague on 2020-05-13 01:02:20
Eric, I've learned a lot from this series. Thanks for sharing your research! I have a question about one point in your argumentation in this particular video.
Mt 24:33 "So also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
If I understand correctly, you see πάντα ταῦτα ("all these things") in Mt 24:33,34 referring to the destruction of the temple. As the phrase occurs two times in those verses, what does the first occurrence refer to? "So also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near, right at the door." It seems it cannot refer to the destruction of the temple. My inclination is still to look for the immediate context above for the meaning of "all these things".
In Mt 24:2,3 the only instance of πάντα ταῦτα ("all this") is in verse 2 when Jesus tells his disciples to look at ταῦτα πάντα ("all these things") which refers to the temple buildings, not to the destruction of the temple. The disciples question in verse 3 is πότε ταῦτα ἔσται ("when will this happen?") and refers to the destruction of the temple, but the wording is different. Moreover, I am quite hesitant to put too much emphasis on the usage of such a common pronoun.
Maybe you've already explained your understanding of this and I've just missed it.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-05-13 06:56:37
Hi FrankVague. Good question. I think the first instance of "all these things" refers to what he described in Matthew 24:15 as the sign that they should be prepared to flee.
Reply by frankvague on 2020-05-14 23:31:31
So then, according to this understanding, verse 33 would read: "So also you, when you see the Roman general with his armies, know that the Roman general with his armies is near, right at the door."
I guess it could work if the first general is Cestius Gallus and the second Vespasian. But did Jesus really mean that?
I really want to see if there's a way to have verses 29-31 talk about something else than the destruction of Jerusalem, that's why I'm interested in the matter. To me it still makes the most sense to have "he is near, right at the door" refer to the Son of Man in the verses above.
As I think you have also noted elsewhere, the coming of the Son of Man or coming on the clouds -language in Matthew does not seem to necessitate other than events in the first century:
- "you will not finish going through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." (Mt 10)
- "there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Mt 17)
- "from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Mt 26)Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-05-15 08:24:04
I guess the question becomes, Do you feel that the references you list refer to the presence of Christ? Because I showed in the video how the kingdom of God could come with reference to Jerusalem, without that being the same thing as the presence of Christ.
Comment by Zacheus on 2020-05-14 07:16:39
I have just sat and read/listened to part 1 of mathew 24. I wish now to read/listen to part two!
You are such a fine speaker.. (no wt mono-drone-tone there!Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-05-14 10:42:44
You are too kind. ?