“I Have Called You Friends”

– posted by Tadua

“I have called you friends, because I have made known to you all the things I have heard from my Father.”—JOHN 15:15


 [From ws 04/20 p.20 June 22 – June 28]


 

Why use this theme scripture? Who was Jesus talking too?

In John 15 Jesus was talking to his disciples, specifically the 11 faithful apostles, as Judas had just left to betray Jesus. In John 15:10 Jesus said, “If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father, and remain in his love.” He also went on to say in John 15:14 “You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you”.

So why pick out the phrase “I have called you friends”? Before answering that question let us look at how Jesus addressed the apostles and disciples.

Earlier in Jesus’ ministry the following event took place which is recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Jesus’ fleshly mother and brothers were trying to get near him. Luke 8:20-21 describes what happened, “it was reported to him [Jesus] “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to see you”. In reply he [Jesus] said to them: “My mother and my brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it”. So, any disciples who listened to Jesus teaching and applied it were considered his brothers.

When speaking to Peter before Jesus was arrested, Jesus said regarding the future, “when once you have returned, strengthen your brothers.” (Luke 22:32). In Matthew 28:10, shortly after Jesus death and resurrection Jesus said the following to the women [Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary] “Have no fear! Go report to my brothers, that they may go off into Galilee; and there they will see me”.

As a summary, Jesus called the disciples in general and also the apostles, his brothers. He also stated that those who listened to him and applied it where his brothers. However, when Jesus said “I have called you friends” he was only speaking to the 11 faithful apostles. He spoke to them this way because he had grown close to them. As Jesus said in Luke 22:28 “you are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials”. As Jesus was dying “seeing his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing by, said to his mother ‘Woman, see! Your son!’ Next, he said to the disciple; ‘See! Your mother!’ And from that hour on the disciple took her to his home” (John 19:26-27).

The book of Acts has the early disciples calling one another “brothers”, rather than just “friends”.

Therefore, it is clear that taking the phrase “I have called you friends”, as the theme and applying it as the study article does, is taking it out of context as it was specifically applied by Jesus to his faithful apostles. However, the phrase “my brothers” applying to all his disciples would not be out of context.

Then why has the Organization done this? An oversight? Artistic license? Or more sinister?

A box on page 21 gives the game away when it says “Thus, friendship with Jesus leads to friendship with Jehovah”. Yes, the Organization is subtly still pushing its agenda that the vast majority of Witnesses can only become friends of God, rather than sons of God. This is confirmed in paragraph 12 when the paragraph heading is “(3) Support Christ’s brothers”, and continues with “Jesus views what we do for his anointed brothers as if we were doing it for him” and “The primary way that we support the anointed is by sharing fully in the kingdom-preaching and disciple-making work that Jesus directed his followers to carry out.”

Surely, if we preach about the kingdom and make disciples of Christ as Jesus directed his followers to do then we are, or should be, doing it directly for Jesus, not for “Christ’s brothers”. After all, does not Galatians 6:5 tell us that “For each one will carry his own load”. Sadly, the reality is that anything done for the Organization is being done for those claiming to be “Christ’s brothers”, rather than for Christ. The study article is also trying to reinforce the artificial division the Organization has created between Christians of ‘anointed’ and ‘non-anointed’, a division that never existed in Jesus teachings.

The Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:26 said “You are all, in fact sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus” and went on to say in Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus” and to that we could add ‘There is neither anointed and non-anointed, there is neither brothers and friends; for you are all one in union with Christ’. All “sons of God”, would be brothers of Christ, who is the firstborn Son of God. (1 John 4:15, Colossians 1:15).

Paragraphs 1-4 mentions 3 challenges in making friends of Jesus. They are:

  1. We have not met Jesus personally.

  2. We are not able to speak to Jesus.

  3. Jesus lives in heaven.


Now, having these three points together highlighted in bold caused me to pause and think hard about the implications. How can we make friends of someone we have not met and cannot meet, without speaking to them? It is impossible.

Paragraphs 10-14 suggested the following:

  1. Get to know Jesus by reading the Bible accounts of Jesus.

  2. Imitate Jesus' way of thinking and acting.

  3. Support Christ’s brothers. (This includes a full paragraph requesting financial support, for uses for which we are never given an account of how it has been spent)

  4. Support the arrangements of the Christian congregation. (This is used to justify the closure and selling of Kingdom Halls).


Points 1 and 2 are vital. However, that is all one-sided and impersonal. In addition, to which (3) has already been discounted based on the scriptural evidence discussed earlier above and (4) is only relevant if the Organization is truly being used by Christ.

So why can we not speak to Jesus, after all, that would solve the problem? We can speak to God, but does it not seem strange for him to forbid us to speak to his son? The Bible does not contain any command by God that does forbid us to do so. By the same token, it does not contain any suggestion by Jesus that we do pray to him.

However, according to paragraph 3 of the study article Jesus does not want us to pray to him. It tells us “In fact, Jesus does not want us to pray to him. Why not? Because prayer is a form of worship, and only Jehovah should be worshipped. (Matthew 4:10)”.

What does Matthew 4:10 tell us? “Then Jesus said to him: “Go away Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service”. That clearly states we should only worship God, there is no question about that, but where does it say Jesus does not want us to pray to him, because prayer is a form of worship? Is that really true?

Prayer is a form of communication, like speaking, to call upon God or a person to ask for something or to thank for something (see also Genesis 32:11, Genesis 44:18).

To Worship means to show reverence and adoration for a deity, or honor with religious rites, to take part in a religious ceremony. In the Christian Greek scriptures, the word “proskuneo” to worship – means to bow down to gods or kings (see Revelation 19:10, 22:8-9). In Matthew 4:8-9 what did Satan want Jesus to do? Satan wanted Jesus to “fall down and do an act of worship to me”.

It is, therefore, reasonable to conclude that while some prayers may be done in a worshipful way or included in our worship, prayers are not exclusively worshiping. So, when the Watchtower Study article says, “prayer is a form of worship”, that is misleading. Yes, prayer can be a form of worship, but it is not exclusively a form of worship, which is a fine but important distinction. In other words, prayer is possible if done in a way not implying worship.

How do the scriptures say we worship God? Jesus said, “the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth” (John 4:23-24).

The conclusion we can draw from this is, while Jehovah God as our Father is clearly the main destination of our prayers, and the only object of our worship, the Bible record does not forbid us from communicating with Jesus in a respectful way via the medium of prayer, but neither does it encourage it. That is a thought that will leave most Witnesses, including the author, with some thinking to do.

Finally, to keep this point for thought in context, John 15:14 reminds us that Jesus said, “You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you” and Luke 8:21 “my brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it”. Perhaps, at the end of the day in God’s and Jesus’ eyes, works speak louder than words, after all, James 2:17 says “faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Archived Comments

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  • Comment by floss on 2020-06-28 19:08:20

    I wonder if someone can explain why Abraham who is said to became Jehovah's friend if as we are told that we know Jesus first to become his friend. It said that Abraham ,Moses etc need to have this friendship

    • Reply by Psalmbee on 2020-06-29 20:44:35

      Hi floss,

      You may want to rephrase that question, unless I'm missing something (or actually don't have what I need) it's not very understandable and would be very difficult to try to explain what you are wondering.


      Psalmbee

  • Comment by Fani on 2020-06-29 02:03:07

    Pourquoi vouloir faire une hiérarchie dans notre amour pour Christ et Dieu?
    Lorsqu'on aime Christ on aime Dieu ; lorsqu'on aime Dieu on aime Christ.

    Jean 14 : 21 Celui qui accepte mes commandements et y obéit, c’est lui qui m’aime. Et celui qui m’aime sera aimé de mon Père, et moi je l’aimerai et je me montrerai clairement à lui. »
    23 " Si quelqu’un m’aime, il obéira à ma parole, et mon Père l’aimera, et nous viendrons vers lui et nous ferons chez lui notre habitation"

    De l'amour du Christ découle l'amour de Dieu.
    On ne peut pas les dissocier et il n'y a aucune rivalité entre eux.

  • Comment by Childrens Lives Matter on 2020-06-28 15:14:41

    So I found this very interesting in the discussion of the watch tower today. When they got to paragraph five they read the paragraph but they did not read the boxes. This was unusual since they always with the boxes. When the conductor asked for a comment on the second box “a balance view of Jesus’ role”, an elder Commented on the box and he said “ The paragraph says that we must attach neither too much nor too little importance to our relationship with Jesus”. No other comments and they moved on. When we see the difference there the paragraph says we must attach neither too much or too little importance to our love for Jesus. So I don’t know if that change was a personal one, or maybe something that was decided on by some elders, but you could clearly see there was an effort made to not say what was in the paragraph.

  • Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-06-21 11:26:06

    So, they want the brothers to donate because they are "using our financial resources to support the work that they are directing." They add: "For example, we can contribute toward the worldwide work, which includes financing the preaching of the good news in isolated areas, building and maintaining
    facilities that support true worship, and providing material relief for those who
    have suffered loss."
     
    What fine words! What lofty goals!! What a sham!!! They dismantled for all intents and purposes the special pioneer ranks which were the primary means to preaching in isolated areas. They are cutting back on foreign language publications. And as for providing material relief, let's start with the present COVID crisis. Sure, local congregations may be helping out those in need, but how are the funds donated to headquarters being used to provide charitable works that relieve this suffering?
     
    Then there is paragraph 14: "For example, we are now trying to make sure
    that all Kingdom Halls are used to full capacity. To that end, some congregations
    have been merged with other congregations and territory boundaries
    have been adjusted. This arrangement has resulted in considerable savings of
    dedicated resources."
     
    How? The congregations were paying for their halls directly and maintaining them with their own funds and labor. "Dedicated funds" from headquarters were not being used. The only way the so-called brothers of Christ at headquarters benefitted was by taking the money that belonged to the local brothers for themselves. Now the brothers spend more time and more money getting to the hall, but the organization has grown richer.
     
    "Stop making the house of my Father a house of commerce!" (John 2:16)
     

  • Comment by Beroeans Creed on 2020-06-21 14:44:00

    Greetings JA,
     The authors on this site are certainly not afraid of, or above criticism and opposing views as you are certainly aware of, but I would like to respond to this portion of your comment,
     
    “I am starting to understand your relentless obsession to attack WT at every turn”, but it would be more effective if you had some sound reasoning behind it. What you wrote here is just careless and poorly thought out. A little more effort, please.”
     
    JA you do realize the main premise of Beroean Pickets (in my opinion) is to support mainly the current and ex-witness community by providing a safe place to analyze,learn, question and even criticize what they have been taught in the past,and currently by the Organization correct?
    This would not be needed if the student was not denied questioning the teacher, but due to the autocratic nature of the GB those who are using their God given gift of reason must go elsewhere. 
     
    Why would you view point 4 of the review as “relentless obsession to attack WT at every turn”? 
     
    Was it necessary to include “What you wrote here is just careless and poorly thought out. A little more effort, please.” When your legitimate point in the middle of that comment  “but it would be more effective if you had some sound reasoning behind it.” is really what is germane to the review and supplies constructive criticism that will help the reviewers in future articles.
     
    JA you make many good comments and challenges frequently here, they would be better received if seasoned with salt. In fact although I’m just a member here, I think you should,to coin a phrase “reach out” and become one of the reviewers I’m positive they would welcome some help.
     
    Agape, BC
     
     
     
     
     

    • Reply by Beroeans Creed on 2020-06-23 14:45:18

      JA not to beleaguer this plus Tadua doesn’t need me defend him,but I get a little unsettled when someone “shoots the messenger “ or in this case the reviewer.
      You stated,
      When I read Meleit’s articles, even ones I disagree with, I am still left with the impression of respectable scholarship and attention both to detail and to the emotional effect it will have on readers”
       
      I know that you have read some of Tadua’s non-WT review articles found on the authors link and would agree many are very “Detailed and scholarly, so why this comment?
       
      What I want Tadua to “spend a little more effort on, please” is to provide upbuilding insights and research into the truth of the Bible, and (MUCH) less on WT attacks, particularly irrelevant ones.“
       
      I'm confident you’ll agree that his scholarly articles really contain no WT criticism and that the time it took to research and put those together was for the upbuilding of the readers here.
      When reviewing WT study articles which contains the so called spiritual food for primarily Jehovah’s Witnesses, the entire purpose is to dissect the food and look at the scriptural ingredients and when contaminates are found they should be pointed out, and that includes the hypocrisy in print exposed by the actions of the org. Some may Even seem unrelated to the topic, but are they really? That’s the reason we all read these reviews as even though many readers are awake the lingering effects of decades of indoctrination may cause us to gloss over what is printed by the very skillful WT writing dept. and not see the contaminates.
       
      The truth is, none of us are forced to be here as readers, especially if one finds criticism of the organization depressing, as there are plenty of WT apologist sites out there. I for one appreciate the fact that Tadua and others spend countless hours doing reviews and I’m willing to cut them a lot of slack if they miss the mark from time to time.
       
      Peace my Brother
       

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-06-23 15:42:28

        Thank you for sharing this with us, BC.

  • Comment by Jabez on 2020-06-21 15:51:49

    The Watchtower will never learn the lesson that we should not make a doctrine out of a single verse ,we can prove anything we want this way .Doing this we end up with just a list of proof texts .In fact anyone still active in the Watchtower will know in their heart of hearts that that is so ,the bereans did not check a Watchtower to see if these things were so they checked The Scriptures .here is a couple of Scriptures to dwell on John 6:28,29 as to the work required and 1john 5:1 as this allows us to be called Sons of God and an extra Scripture for good measure 1John 3:1 shows us how much God loves us

  • Comment by Menrov on 2020-06-22 02:39:07

    Nice review. With the organisation it is like this: either they do not mention Jesus at all (see previous study article) or they make Jesus merely like a messenger or servant to his Father.
    If the anointed are considered brothers of Jesus, then what were the apostles? "just" friends? Further, brother is not a step up compared to brother. At least, not in what Jesus meant to say here. You can have a brother you do not want to know but you can have friends you love.

  • Comment by Frankie on 2020-06-22 06:29:22

    Hi Tadua.
     
    Thank you for good review. I think your effort with respect to this review was sufficient ;o). This article is dangerous (without the IMO). It is a spiritual food full of nice words and seasoned with a bit of poison. You captured the essence of this article, which aims to:
    1. Deepen the gap between R&F and Jesus,
    2. Emphasize the division of members of the organization into two classes - masters and slaves,
    through the word "friend".
    Your thoughts "How can we make friends of someone we have not met and cannot meet, without speaking to them? It is impossible." are essential. These 3 challenges in Par 1-4 are the 3 pinches (among others) of poison.
     
    Friendship with someone is formed by personal relationship. I really can't know anyone based on factual data only. No one will become my friend just because I read his biography. For example, a child is constantly experiencing personal experiences with his/her father. He or she trusts the father not because someone told them something about him. The child trusts her father on the basis of personal daily experiences. And then the answer to love is love.
     
    Without personal experiences, no one (either Jesus Christ) will be my true friend.
    And thus these 3 challenges in article are irrelevant! So let's talk to our Lord daily, let's tell Him about our worries, listen to what He tells us through the events that concern us and with which He answers, let's thank Him for what He did for us and what He will do. It is Jehovah's will that He is our brother, but also our Lord, He has all power in heaven and on earth, He is our hope, He is everything to us. And let's forget the very purposeful definition of "prayer" in this article (another pinch of poison). After all, our brother Paul three times asked Jesus for health (2 Cor 12: 8). We can ask Him too!
     
    Love to everyone. Frankie
     

  • Comment by yobec on 2020-06-22 10:36:03

    Thanks Tadua. Nice article.
    I too,have often wondered if it is proper to talk with Jesus. It dawned on me one day that Stephen did just that. Acts: 7; 56 - 59

  • Comment by marielle on 2020-06-22 13:00:41

    J’ai moi aussi, tout de suite compris où la WT voulait nous emmener en parlant de devenir « amis de Christ » puis « amis de Jéhovah ».

    Quoi de plus naturel que d’adresser à Christ nos remerciements pour son sacrifice qui nous délivre de nos péchés, et nous donne l’espérance de la vie éternelle ?

    Jean 6 : 4
    « Oui, je vous le dis, c’est la vérité : il a la vie éternelle, celui qui croit ».


    I Jean 5 : 1
    « Toute personne qui croit que Jésus est le Christ est née de Dieu »

    Et Jésus veille sur tous ceux qui sont nés de Dieu.
    I Jean 5 : 18
    « Nous savons que toute personne qui est née de Dieu ne pratique pas le péché, mais celui* qui est né de Dieu veille sur elle, et le méchant n’a pas de prise sur elle ».

    Si nous ne sommes pas nés de Dieu, Jésus ne veillerait donc pas sur nous ?
    Si nous ne sommes pas nés de Dieu, le méchant aurait prise sur nous ?

    Jean donne t-il des détails sur « tous ceux qui ne sont pas nés de Dieu » ?

    Tout ce chapitre de I Jean 5 ne parle que d’une vie éternelle, sans distinction de classe, pour TOUS CEUX QUI CROIENT AU FILS QUE DIEU NOUS A ENVOYÉ.

    Nous pouvons remercier Dieu et Christ.

  • Comment by Childrens Lives Matter on 2020-06-22 13:23:23

    There is something going on here that is concerning me very much. Neither in the review or in the comment section is there any mention of what is in the box on page 22 “a balanced view of Jesus role” I find there one of the most egregious statements that the organization has ever made. Last sentence reads“ We must attach neither too much nor too little importance to our love for Jesus.”
    Now, imagine someone saying this,” We must attach neither too much nor too little importance to our love for the governing body. Now, how do you think that would go over. Now say that to your PIMI wife or a couple of the elders and see where that gets you.
    So why does this concern me. Well if we in the XJW community Cannot pick that out as such a hideous statement then how can we believe that Current JW‘s will even Think twice about it. IMO this one statement should have the JW’s running for the hills. Then again maybe it’s just me. But I’ll tell you this, I will never limit The importance I place on my love for the Christ. Philippians 2:9-11. My knee bends and my tongue acknowledges the Christ, but I should not attach too much importance to the love I have for Jesus. pure nonsense. (Did I hear someone say anti-Christ)

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2020-06-22 21:22:49

      Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I don't read the Watchtower anymore and less so the illustrations. That is a truly egregious statement.

      • Reply by Menrov on 2020-06-24 03:09:37

        John 16:27 is used and translated in NWT as: For the Father himself has affection for you, because you have had affection for me and have believed that I came as God’s representative. Bold is mine.
        This is a poor translation serving an agenda. God can have many representatives like he had Moses and others. But there is only who came FROM GOD, sent by God.

    • Reply by Psalmbee on 2020-06-22 22:50:53

      Hi CLM,
       
      Like Meleti, I don't read the WT anymore either, not that I read it all the time like most here have been through. Every time I did read one it amazed me at how easy it was to pick apart. I have gone through some old ones along and along but they are no good anymore and the GB of today would be more than happy if they were destroyed, as it is you can only go back so far and then you are treading on apostate boundaries and old light that can get you dis-fellowshipped if used.
       
      Keep bending that knee to Christ, and if you every want to go fishing I'll go with you, it seems you have a good eye for the water.
       
      Greetings to all,
       
       
      Psalmbee, (Rev 22:17)
       
       
       
      Dire Straits - Water Of Love [1978] - YouTube
       

    • Reply by Fani on 2020-06-23 05:50:22

      Moi non plus je ne lis plus les Tour de Garde.
      Je n'arrive plus à avoir un bon état d'esprit connaissant maintenant la malhonnêteté de ceux qui les écrivent ou les supervisent.
      Parfois, je les survole lorsque je veux mieux comprendre la raison d'un commentaire sur ce site.
      Mais je suis d'accord avec ce que tu dis. On ne peut pas mesurer ou limiter notre affection pour le Christ.
      Je ne comprends même pas pourquoi ils ont mis comme référence jean 16 : 27 (je suis allee voir ce qu'ils disaient suite à ton commentaire).
      Jean dit :" Car le Père lui-​même a de l’affection pour vous, parce que vous avez eu de l’affection pour moi et que vous avez été convaincus que je suis venu comme le représentant de Dieu".
      En quoi ce verset appuie qu'on doit limiter notre affection envers le Christ ? Pour moi, il dit tout le contraire.
      Je ne comprends rien à ce qu'ils racontent.

    • Reply by safeguardyourheart on 2020-06-23 11:04:07

      The part that says.....Beginning in 1919, however, they came to see that JEHOVAH and their relationship with him should be the FOCUS OF THEIR WORSHIP.

      What were they worshiping before 1919? The same JESUS CHRIST other denominations still hold in HIGH REGARDS. The content in this box under this week article is something else.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2020-06-23 18:04:38

      I don't read the WTs either, but the arrogance of this article forced me to read it briefly in the WT edition in my native language. And right now, in a comment from you, I read the English version of the sentence: "We must attach neither too much nor too little importance to our love for Jesus."
       
      But in the Slovak edition of WT, this sentence reads differently after translation: "But we must be careful not to love Jesus more than Jehovah."
       
      So I think the writers probably tried to point out the order of importance - 1st Jehovah, 2nd Jesus. And they stupidly used the word love as a parameter of importance. Is this possible? Who writes it there?
       

  • Comment by safeguardyourheart on 2020-06-23 11:00:03

    Like those in Christendom, the early Bible Students mistakenly allowed their LOVE FOR JESUS to OVERSHADOW their relationship with Jehovah........ content in one of the BOX of this article

    This is how the ORG smear and misdirect the intention of other religions to RAISE theirs above the others and in so doing put other RELIGIONS in bad light.

    How can the BIBLE STUDENTS be mistaken to follow the CHRISTENDOM when Matthew 4:10 was clearly WRITTEN in the BIBLE. Was Matthew 4:10 written after the death of the BIBLE STUDENT? NO is the answer. In REALITY they just made the BIBLE STUDENT idol WORSHIPPERS.

    Since they find it difficult to CONDEMN the IDOLATERS by putting the BLAME on CHRISTENDOM what ground do they have to CONDEMN those ADHERENT of TRINITARIANS.


    .......Beginning in 1919, however, they came to see that JEHOVAH and their relationship with him should be the FOCUS OF THEIR WORSHIP....... content in the box.

    What was the FOCUS OF WORSHIP of this ORGANIZATION before 1919. The organization just confirmed it's IDOLATRY STATUS and it has not come to an end yet.

    In the case of other Christian DENOMINATIONS it's

    GOD ........JESUS.. ...... HOLYSPIRIT

    In the case of of JWS ORGANIZATION it is

    GOD .......JESUS........... GOVERNING BODY(ORG)......

    The latter is very much IDOLATRY considering the GB are not inspired and make mistakes and the fact that one has to BOW to the MEN before having relationship with GOD says so

  • Comment by London18 on 2020-06-23 11:03:05

    Enjoyed this article and look forward to them every week!!!

  • Comment by Torso Boy on 2020-06-24 02:45:28

    Thanks as always for your research and WT reviews Tadua. And thank you all for your comments and, at times, lively discussion. I have learned so much from these pages and been exposed to many new and interesting ideas from each of your comments. It is such a refreshing forum for Bible discussion - I love it!
     
    I haven't read the WT article yet, however I do try to each week so that I can follow through with these BP articles as well as see what my PIMI wife, PIMI eldest son and PIMO younger son are being taught.
     
    I haven't commented for quite a while here (not that I was a prolific commenter before) as I have recently progressed from being PIMO to POMO (on Good Friday no less) and the last 6-12 months have been extremely difficult for myself and my family.
     
    Not having physical meetings to attend due to COVID has made the process somewhat easier I suppose, although I have had a face-to-face meeting with one of the elders to discuss my feelings about certain teachings, the ARC and my thoughts on the GB. He meant well and he just wanted to know what he could do to help me come back to the Org. I thanked him for his offer but told him I didn't need any help as I am now experiencing Christian freedom for the first time.
     
    Anyway, onto the topic at hand...
     
    On the subject of prayer, I understand the need (and even desire) to want to speak with our Lord Jesus in an effort to draw closer to him as we have done with Jehovah. But how do we reconcile this with Matthew 6:9 where Jesus taught us to pray to our heavenly father? Is talking to Jesus directly not considered a prayer as such? Obviously we wouldn't speak to him through his own name (I offer this prayer/conversation to you, through you?).
     
    Apologies for my ignorance if I am missing something glaringly obvious. Any thoughts on this would be most welcome.

  • Comment by lazarus on 2020-06-24 04:53:13

    Yes we are his brothers and sisters not just mates. Or friends as not related.

    Romans 8:29, says, “For those whom he [God] foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.” Now, there is a double purpose there, isn’t there. One is conformity to the image of the Son of God, so that we can actually be called brothers because of this unity, this conformity, this union with Christ. We are brothers by likeness, not just legally, but by likeness to his image. And the fact that Jesus is “the firstborn among the brothers.”

    And that term firstborn - very significant point , notice this Psalm 89:27, where it says, “And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.”

  • Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-06-24 05:00:50

    Can I talk to Jesus ? Yes.   Should I talk to Jesus ?
    That is the question.
     
    Let me put before you a bit of logic :-
    A slice of bread is better than nothing
    Nothing is better than God
    Therefore a slice of bread is better than God.
     
    Have we got our logic right on this subject ?
     
    Jesus stated (Matthew 4:10 ) that "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service". (NWT). or "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve" (English Standard). Jesus was speaking to Satan at that time before "All authority in heaven and on the earth" (Matthew 28:18) had been given to him.
     
    Revelation 19:10 reminded John to "Worship God"
     
    Jesus is brother to all Christians. At least that is how he has explained our position. (Mark 3:35), and while on earth he showed his total respect for his father by the way that he taught and what he said. He made no attempt to usurp God's position and authority (Philippians 2:6) .
     
    However he is now king.
     
    Prayer is part of our worship to God.
    But not all prayer is worship
     
    Therefore prayer to Jesus cannot be out of order, as long as we are not praying about things which should be directed to God, most of which things Jesus referred to in the model prayer. Thus we do not ask that his name be sanctified, that he provide us with the essentials of life. We do not ask him to forgive our sins. We recognise God as supreme and he is the source of the Kingdom.
     
    At Mark 10:35 James and John said "We want you to do for us whatever we ask of you". When they asked to sit at his right hand in his glory, not surprisingly Jesus said that was not his to give.
     
    At John 15:16 Jesus simply stated that " no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you".
     
    It seems clear from those verses that Jesus wants us to direct our requests to his father.When you were at home, who did you ask if you could have a sweet, or another slice of cake. You asked your father, or probably, your mother.  You did not ask your brother did you ? (Unless he had bought the cake)
     
    But that did not prevent you talking to your brother, did it ? Goodness me, no ! No one would have ever suggested that.
     
    It is all about getting our logic right.
     
    Jesus has all authority now, and has had since some time in 33 CE.  What can we ask him ? All sorts of things.   All he asks is that we show, by our prayers, due respect to his father.  But we also owe him due respect.
     
    Note that at Matthew 11:27-8 Jesus says "All things have been handed over to me by my father...Come to me, all who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you"
    If we misdirect a request, to him, rather than his father, I am sure both will understand. 
     
    But surely that should not stop us talking to him. 
     
    Of course, there might be a relative who is trying to stop us talking to our brother, saying we must listen to him (the relative) instead. But that is a different subject. 
     
    Thank you for reading this.

  • Comment by rudytokarz on 2020-06-24 09:00:57

    Hello all,
    Has anyone noticed the apparent subtle change in what the terms "declared righteous/reconciled" means?
    Notice the blurb below from the WT article:
    "Friendship With Jesus Leads to Friendship With JehovahBecause of inherited sin, we could never on our own enjoy friendship with Jehovah. All of us begin life, not as God’s friends, but as his enemies. To become his friends, therefore, WE MUST BE RECONCILED to him. (Rom. 5:6-12) Jehovah has made provision for this reconciliation through the ransom sacrifice of his only-begotten Son. By exercising faith in Jesus and obeying his commands, we can become his friends. (John 3:16, 36; 15:14) More significantly, though, by exercising faith in Jesus, WE CAN BE RECONCILED TO GOD. Thus, friendship with Jesus leads to friendship with Jehovah." (Caps mine)
    In the past (Insight book, etc.) WE ARE NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS/RECONCILED UNLESS 144,000.
    It has always been quite clear from the scriptures (Romans 5) that ALL Christians can be declared righteous and reconciled to God, but this is the first time that I know of that WT has put this spin as "reconciled".
    Is WT finally understanding the scriptures in this matter? (I doubt it; there is probably a wiggle room thought process like the 'overlapping generation)
    Any thoughts out there?

  • Comment by Frankie on 2020-06-24 14:48:59

    Dear brothers and sisters,
    I have noticed in this discussion that some have doubts as to whether it is right to speak directly to Jesus Christ, our Lord, or not. I would like to share my thoughts on the concepts of prayer and worship with you. And I'd like to follow up on a good comment from LJ. I apologize for the size of text.
     
    When Jesus was on earth, his disciples and ordinary people often asked Jesus for various things (Matt 8: 2; Luke 18:38). But, at the same time, they did not worship him as Almighty God. And if he performed a miracle or healed someone, then they did not glorify him, but glorified God, because they knew very well that he had power from God (Luke 5:26).
     
    Today, Jesus is in heaven, but the things are the same. Jesus never said we should not talk to him. Such a serious statement would certainly be mentioned by Jesus himself, but such plain information is not in the Bible. And verse Matt 4:10 doesn't talk about it. It's just another GB's purpose-built and eisegetical deduction without context.
     
    Jesus showed an example of prayer to our heavenly Father - important things to ask for (Matt 6: 8-13). For now, let us note the words in which this prayer begins with the saying: "Our Father in heaven."
     
    Prayer does not necessarily mean an act of worship. Prayer is part of the conversation in which I thank, please and praise. The answer is the events around me and inside me. If Paul asked Jesus for health, he also prayed - he asked (just as Jairus prayed for his daughter - Luke 8:41). Did Paul worship Jesus as God with this prayer? No. When Paul prayed, did both Jesus and Jehovah know that Jehovah was Almighty God for Paul? Yes. Did Jesus warn Paul to address his request to Jehovah and not to him? No.
     
    The fact that I worship Jehovah as the Most High can be expressed in conversation with Him or His Son in various ways, even by means of the address. If I turn to Jehovah God, I first address Him as "My Heavenly Father, look at me and ...” and I continue to ask Him, thank Him, praise Him. And I often say "I thank You for having You, it is fortunate to have such a God and a loving Father, for my life would not make sense without You. Thank You for help while I was at the bottom. Every moment I live is a gift from You. I thank You for Your Son, by the faith in which I can live forever. Please give me more health."
     
    When I speak to Jesus, I address Him: "Lord Jesus, my Redeemer and Savior, please come to this world a second time (Revelation 22:17). Thank you for standing by me, for if you are with me, I will not be afraid of anything (2 Tim 4:18). Shine me on Your path so that I may see Your footsteps well (1 Pet 2:21), for You are the light of the world (John 8:12). You are the way, the truth and the life, and I want to live in the truth on that path (John 14: 6). You are a good shepherd, wherever You go, I want to go like the sheep follows its shepherd (John 10:11; Luke 9:57). If I weaken, please strengthen me (2 Tim 4:17), if I fall, lift me up, and if I want to wander away, take my hand and bring me back (John 17:12). And I ask You for my health, may it be easier for me (2 Cor 12: 8)."
    And when I feel better, or when I have a wonderful day, I will glorify Jehovah, my heavenly Father and my God.
     
    After all, God sees me. He knows me best and knows very well that I worship Him and consider Him my God in my heart. He also knows very well my relation to His beloved Son. So whether I pray to Jehovah, my God or talk to His Son, Jehovah always knows what I mean. He knows that He is the almighty God for me, and that I worship Him, and He knows my order of importance best.
     
    So why should I observe some rituals, or browse through individual verses and prove my inner feelings. Why create new rules and paragraphs for access to God and His Son. I just need to express what is in my heart, for I speak with my beloved ones, with my God, and with his Son, my brother. Will anyone other understand me better?
    Let us not be afraid to speak with our Lord, because:
     
    "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love." (1 John 4:18)
     
    This is how I feel it, and I have no fear of punishment for speaking to beloved Jesus, the Son of my beloved Father. There is no reason for that. After all, how can I divide my love into smaller and larger parts?
     
     Love to all here. Frankie
     

    • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-06-25 04:33:41

      Thank you for those excellent thoughts, Frankie.

  • Comment by Elpida on 2020-06-25 15:46:49

    What I find disturbing about this Watchtower article is at one point it seems JW is trying to open people’s eyes to the important role Jesus plays in our lives but at the same time reminds us He is just a friend.  As you point out, how can you be friends with someone you don’t know.   
    There are countless Scriptures where Jesus tells us that if you know Him then you know His Father.   So logic tells me that how can you not aim to know Jesus because if you don’t know Him, you won’t know the Father.  It is therefore clear to me that Jesus is vital in our worship of Jehovah as He is the Son of God. 
    I am not clear yet about praying to Jesus but since He is our way of praying to God as we say in Jesus Name, does that not mean we can talk with Jesus like the Apostles did?

  • Comment by Domine Ivimus on 2020-06-26 10:05:22

    The clinching verse for me regarding speaking directly to Jesus is John 14:13,14. If you read it in the NWT you will need to use the Interlinear, as they miss out the key word ME.

    “Also, whatever it is that you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask (ME) anything in my name, I will do it.”

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