This podcast provides some fascinating insight into the mentality of Jehovah’s Witnesses in general and JW elders in particular. Notice how one of the key issues the elders are interested in establishing is whether Shawn believes the Governing Body is God’s channel. They are not worried about answering his questions or resolving the truth. The question of whether he still believes the Bible or loves Jehovah God never comes up.
Notice also how they make the organization synonymous with Jehovah, such that leaving the organization is tantamount to leaving Jehovah, and doubting the organization’s teachings is doubting Jehovah.
Toward the end, you will hear the elders excuse past mistakes by making the false claim that Witnesses are willing to acknowledge when they have been wrong, but will adjust their teachings as “new light” shines forth. Having been a Witness for over 60 years, I can attest to the fact that the one thing the Governing Body does not do is apologize. Why, just a few years ago, there was a convention video that put the onus for the 1975 debacle squarely on the shoulders of the rank and file. So, even forty years after the fact when everyone responsible for that fiasco is dead and gone, they are still unwilling to accept responsibility.
Please feel free to share any and all your observations in the comments section, as it is helpful for others to discern the standard propaganda and indoctrinated thinking that permeates these discussions.
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Towards the end the elders said they it was brought to their NOTICE that he has committed a serious SIN. I am wondering has the person who informed the elders laid it bare before SHAWN before going to the elders? Why was the elders asking the truthfulness of the allegation before SHAWN instead investigating it on their own. Didn’t the INFORMANT submit a detailed investigation report to the elders. The elders always have the mindset that anyone leaving the organization and going out there can no longer do anything worthwhile again in the eyes of JEHOVAH. Yet the individual who… Read more »
Towards the end the elders said they it was brought to their NOTICE that he has committed a serious SIN. I am wondering has the person who informed the elders laid it bare before SHAWN before going to the elders? Why was the elders asking the truthfulness of the allegation before SHAWN instead investigating it on their own. Didn’t the INFORMANT submit a detailed investigation report to the elders. The elders always have the mindset that anyone leaving the organization and going out there can no longer do anything worthwhile again in the eyes of JEHOVAH. Yet the individual who… Read more »
My intentions was to deal with this conversation way more calm and tactful, but just imagine a child predator hold you captive for your whole life and you finally get your day in court.
Thumbs up to you SHAWN MENDES. The way you handled the conversation is not bad either. Enjoyed the invisible presence part very much because it got to a stage that they just had to pause and leave it. What I will add is SHAWN only need to listen to this recording once more especially the last 30 minutes and see how the ELDERS threw the ORGANIZATION into the trash can unknowingly. The elders said the BIGGEST TEACHING of the ORG is the RANSOM. They went ahead to state forget 607, 1914 blah blah. In essence forget The STRUCTURE upon which… Read more »
While I can’t imagine being in this situation, I wish Shawn had been a little more tactful in his approach. He was far too aggressive and should have asked more questions. I hope he’s able to listen back to this and realize how to approach it next time, though I fear the next time will be too late. But I applaud Shawn for his bravery and so many others who have had to endure situations like this.
Welcome Mike. I enjoy your own commentaries as well as your comment here. Once we wake up to Watchtower deceptions it is hard to keep quiet. We are as tactful as when we first became Witnesses, although in reverse, namely that, back then, we should have shut up until we know what to say and how to say it, but the Organisation simply wanted us to speak up, and this resulted in our upsetting some people, friends and family in my case.. If JWs didn’t keep claiming to teach the truth and that they are God’s exclusive channel , the… Read more »
From all this we learn that appointed men are not concerned with what is true, whatever level they may be at.. The odd individual might listen, but truth cannot be discussed, while what has been published is sacrosanct until “new light” comes. New light comes when either an interpretation of prophecy has failed, or enough brothers and sisters write in and complain about something. When those who complain write in, they will be marked as rebellious and not trusting the faithful slave ? Remember, the GB are never in the wrong. Only the R & F are wrong, when they… Read more »
Way to go Shawn. I have many things to say about the discussion and I won’t get into it too much but kudos for sticking firm and bringing up scriptures. You also saw insight because you could see that they wanted to drag you down to that rabbit hole and you made them aware of it as well. One thing I noticed, however, is that you said that you just used the Org’s materials to find out information and/or study over it especially over 607BC. The elders must have smelled a rat because you mentioned many or all scholars having… Read more »
Hello Swaffi, It may be good to remember that the Watchtower itself admits that there are no scholars that support the 607 BCE date.
*** w11 11/1 p. 23 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.
This was so painful to listen to. The elders, while claiming to be loving shepherds, did not attempt to address one single question raised by Shawn. Instead, their intention was to defend the organization and try and find a way to trap him into saying something for which he could be removed from the congregation. Towards the end it was apparent to me, by the use of the iceberg illustration, that they already believed he had committed something for which he needed to confess. They also displayed a complete inability to separate Jehovah from the organization. Like Job’s false comforters… Read more »
When I told them I was no longer going to turn in a report, they said the same thing to me. They believed I was engaged in some secret sin. To their mind, there can be no valid reason for disobeying the F&DS which God himself has appointed, so any dissent must be put down to secret sin. To accept that someone is disobeying because they choose to obey God rather than men simply does not compute.
I would like to remind Nehemiah 9:32
“And now, O our God, the God great, mighty, and awe-inspiring, who has kept his covenant and shown loyal love, do not treat lightly all the hardship that has found us, our kings, our princes, our priests, our prophets, our forefathers, and all your people from the days of the kings of As·syrʹi·as down to this day.”
It looks as if Nehemiah publicly apologizes in the name of the old leadership of the Israel.
Hi Dalibor. Not only in the name of leadership, but in the name of all people (see v. 33 “but we have done wickedly”. Frankie
Shawn should have calmly point-blank asked questions in a methodical manner and waited for their reply. He talked over the elders way too much. The one elder was very condescending early on when he said, “You should know what Matthew 24:45 says.” I thought it was said rather flip almost mockingly based on the inflection in his voice. The elders seemed more interested in outing his apostasy rather than helping Shawn with the answers he was looking for. To me, it seemed as though the meeting was a mere formality to execute their predetermined judgment which reminded me of Eric’s… Read more »
Jean 1 : 27 27 Travaillez, non pour la nourriture qui est périssable, mais pour la nourriture qui demeure pour la vie éternelle+, nourriture que vous donnera le Fils de l’homme ; car c’est sur celui-ci que le Père, Dieu lui-même, a mis son sceau d’approbation+. » Notre survie peut-elle donc dépendre d’un autre, ou d’autres hommes et qu’on leur obéisse parce qu’ils « auraient reçu le sceau d’approbation divine en 1919 » ? Sceau d’approbation qui leur aurait fait annoncer tout de suite après la fausse prophétie de 1925 ? Que Jéhovah laisse enseigner des erreurs successives, (ex parmi d’autres, la… Read more »
John 6:27. Frankie
w17 février p. 23-28 Qui dirige le peuple de Dieu aujourd’hui ?
12 Le Collège central n’est ni inspiré ni infaillible. IL PEUT DONC SE TROMPER SUR DES QUESTIONS DOCTRINALES ou d’organisation.
Pourquoi Jéhovah dirige t-il SON ORGANISATION vers diverses erreurs pour enseigner son peuple, avant d’insuffler la vérité par l’esprit, est une question qui n’est jamais posée et que l’on ne doit pas poser.
Je n’ai pas pu ecouter la vidéo pour 2 raisons : 1er : mon anglais n’est pas assez bon Et surtout la 2ème : trop d’émotions lorsque j’entends ces frères. Trop de mauvais souvenirs. Je sais par expérience que malheureusement il semble que cela ne sert à rien de parler des doctrines du Collège Central. Les anciens n’ont répondu A AUCUNE de mes questions. Ils n’ont JAMAIS pris la Bible pour me montrer que j’avais tort. Pour ma part, ce n’est pas la mauvaise gestion des abus sexuels ou l’affiliation à l’ONU qui m’a réveillée. Je n’étais pas au courant.… Read more »
Merci de partager votre expérience avec nous. C’était très émouvant à lire. Tu as tellement raison. Ils ne discuteront pas de doctrine, car ils savent dans leur cœur qu’ils ont tort, ce qu’ils ne se reconnaîtront pas. Ainsi, ils enfouissent cette connaissance profondément dans leur esprit subconscient et essaient plutôt de faire taire quiconque n’est pas d’accord. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It was very moving to read. You are so right. They will not discuss doctrine, because they know in their heart that they are wrong, something which they will not admit to themselves. So, they… Read more »
Thanks Eric, This was very hard to listen to and unfortunately this is a classic situation brothers find themselves in and in my opinion the wrong way to approach a meeting with either the initial two investigating Elders or especially the JC that ultimately follows. The poor brother is unloading everything that he has obviously discovered which if you remember your Elder days is a red flag that that will tell the brothers you have been reading Apostate literature a d a danger to the congregation, so I imagine that is what is next for Shawn. Debating doctrine is a… Read more »
You might find this post and the next couple of posts (on the DTT site) interesting. I very much agree with the ‘not debating doctrine’ counsel. Like you said, it is a total waste of time. They aren’t interested at all. The ONLY reason they would listen to you is to gather evidence against you.
Bobcat, thanks for the nice discussion on DTT about the GB/Org. Never apologizing for anything. The bottom line is he Organization has what I call TNS or Trump Narcissistic Syndrome, He has never even hinted at an apology for anything he has ever said or done in his life and becoming president of the US has only made it worse. You know it’s always someone else’s fault. The Organization has never apologized for anything and especially now since the GB has declared themselves the FDS they will never do any apologizing as they have totally convinced themselves they are the… Read more »